Bandit GSF250V coolant leak

[scary]

After three years of trouble-free commuting my faithful Bandit has sprung a leak. There's antifreeze dripping from a point at the bottom of the water pump housing. I hope its just the O ring that's gone, shown on the attached pic. The manual (section also attached) suggests its pretty easy to just take the outer cover off to replace the O-ring without disturbing the inner seals and bearings that would then need to be replaced but I can't find a replacement set of O rings on the internet. I'm pretty new to this mechanical maintenance game so should I be looking to replace all the seals and bearings anyway or can I get away with just replacing the leaking O-ring? Is there anywhere I can get these online or am I just better off approaching Coleman's Suzuki in Auckland?
Cheers,
Chris

[AllanB]

Could be the o-ring, could be the pump ....... you won't know until you open it and have a perve. The o-ring is a easy replace first - change coolant too.

Me I change my coolant every 2-3 years. Cheap insurance.

[Akzle]

o-ring? Or gasket?

O-rings are cheap as shit. Either is easy. Id totally watch you borrow my tools. Except your in dorkland.
Gsf is a sick, though boring bike. Rape it. Rape it good.

[ducatilover]

There is a small tell-tale hole under the pump, closer to the engine. If it is dripping from there you have a leaking mechanical seal on the shaft and need to rebuild the pump, any decent mechanic or handy fulla can do it

The pump housing gasket/o-ring may be leaking. If you cannot find a new one, use a nice quality sealant

The pipes to the pump may be leaking

The 8mm drain plug should have a copper washer on it and may be leaking

I may have posted a waterpump rebuild thread here before, but here's the one I put on ZZR-international http://www.zzr-international.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13795

Worth isolating the problem and then attacking it

[scary]

Awesome, thanks for all the info, especially ducatilover. That instructional thread is both hilarious and very useful. Coleman's have quoted 1-2 days to procure oil seal, bearing and the mechanical seal. Cost for 3 parts is $69.35.

Can I just use liquid gasket instead of the O-rings? If not, what? I guess I can pick up one that looks about right but this feels a bit dodgy.

[Akzle]

Can I just use liquid gasket instead of the O-rings? If not, what? I guess I can pick up one that looks about right but this feels a bit dodgy.

no. you can use an o-ring.

[ducatilover]

You can use a liquid gasket type thing for the water pump cover, providing the o-ring is still in.
I would not use it behind the pump though

[AllanB]

It's a Jap bike the O ring will be a standard metric size.

[ducatilover]

It's a Jap bike the O ring will be a standard metric size.

98% of the time, yes, the other 2% of the time they are fucking retarded sizes that are specific to a very few models

[Big Dog]

I have seen more than a few in service that has been the case so the mech has cut a larger one and used a vulcanising agent to glue it to the size. If the join is at the top it should not leak.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[scary]

Okaaayyyy, I got the parts on Thursday, including the O-rings (took a month for them to arrive). I've spent the last two days degreasing and cleaning and baking and freezing things and now she's all back in one piece! And won't start. :argh:

Despite having sat for a month it started fine yesterday when I warmed up the oil to drain it. I've put new oil, filter and antifreeze in it and bolted everything back up. The only thing I know I've done wrong is neglect to put liquid gasket around the mechanical seal. Hardly the cause of a starting issue.

When it turns over it feels like there's no spark. I need to get a vacuum cleaner into the plug holes before I can even start pulling them out to test them as there looks to be bits of crap that shouldn't end up in the cylinders down there. Ho hum. Watch this space for news. As usual, any suggestions gratefully received as I'm a real amateur at this game.

[Big Dog]

Has your oil changed colour?
Have you changed anything else?

Before you panic too much get a good charge in the battery and see.

Not uncommon after a long sit for a bike to start easily for a test but not run the following day. If you only ran for five mins to warm up then you probably used more power starting it than you generated running it.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Akzle]

Okaaayyyy, I got the parts on Thursday, including the O-rings (took a month for them to arrive). I've spent the last two days degreasing and cleaning and baking and freezing things and now she's all back in one piece! And won't start. :argh:

Despite having sat for a month it started fine yesterday when I warmed up the oil to drain it. I've put new oil, filter and antifreeze in it and bolted everything back up. The only thing I know I've done wrong is neglect to put liquid gasket around the mechanical seal. Hardly the cause of a starting issue.

When it turns over it feels like there's no spark. I need to get a vacuum cleaner into the plug holes before I can even start pulling them out to test them as there looks to be bits of crap that shouldn't end up in the cylinders down there. Ho hum. Watch this space for news. As usual, any suggestions gratefully received as I'm a real amateur at this game.

awwwwwwwww. it warms my cockles to see a fledgling grow...

[unstuck]

Sounds to me like you have dislodged a wire or shorted a wire and blown a fuse.

[scary]

Has your oil changed colour?
Have you changed anything else?
\

No and no.


Before you panic too much get a good charge in the battery and see.

Not uncommon after a long sit for a bike to start easily for a test but not run the following day. If you only ran for five mins to warm up then you probably used more power starting it than you generated running it.


Yup, charged it and tried again. No good.



Sounds to me like you have dislodged a wire or shorted a wire and blown a fuse.

NIce, I'll check the fuses. I had remove the sprocket cover and pull the clutch cable out past the coils to get to the pump so I might have done this but I couldn't see anything wrong. God I hope this isn't electrical or I will shit myself.

[Big Dog]

No and no.



Yup, charged it and tried again. No good.




NIce, I'll check the fuses. I had remove the sprocket cover and pull the clutch cable out past the coils to get to the pump so I might have done this but I couldn't see anything wrong. God I hope this isn't electrical or I will shit myself.

You may want to check your side stand switch.
Also wouldn't be the first time someone killed a bike with the kill switch and didn't switch back to run.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[scary]

Thanks dude, appreciate the advice. I'll get in there on the weekend.

[scary]

Got spark on #1 cylinder. Should I check them all?

The side stand switch doesn't stop this bike starting unless you put it in gear but I'm still checking the interlock system.

[scary]

Got sparks on all plugs. When I put the choke in the engine coughs and splutters like its trying to start but can't quite get there. Got a couple of backfires too so fuel must be getting through. Got spark, got fuel. Maybe the carbs are screwy and not mixing right? I can't see what would have caused this after stripping and refitting the water pump though.

[FJRider]

When I put the choke in the engine coughs and splutters like its trying to start but can't quite get there.

Wait untill it starts (cold) before you reduce the choke.

[Big Dog]

You could try draining your tank from the carb end of the fuel line or if possible from the carb drain into a clear or mostly transparent container. Last time I used a clean and dry plastic milk bottle. When nearly full stop draining. Allow to sit.

If it's all cloudy drain and clean your tank.
If it's got red or black powder or flakes. Drain, flush, clean, rustproof, clean and strip your carb.
If there is what looks like a spirit level bubble at the bottom you have water in you fuel, lines and or filter. You can put a water dispersant through if you can get it to run. Otherwise you need to flush the tank and fuel lines and depending on your fuel filter type replace or flush it.

Also possible based on the fact a spark is present and it is not starting is it getting getting enough air? Was the air box a home to something while it was parked? Does the drain from the air box drain? Is the filter clean?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[scary]

Hi Big Dog, the air filter's not home to anything. Filter looks okay and doesn't release clouds of shit when I blow on it so I reckon that's fine. Before I stripped the water pump I did notice a pool of oil in the bottom of the air box, underneath the filter. I mopped it out with a clean cloth. I'll check the drain and have a look at my fuel.

BTW I've bypassed the neutral and sidestand switches and nothing's changed. Coils have good resistance. Plugs are clean and gapped.

[FJRider]

Hi Big Dog, the air filter's not home to anything. Filter looks okay and doesn't release clouds of shit when I blow on it so I reckon that's fine. Before I stripped the water pump I did notice a pool of oil in the bottom of the air box, underneath the filter. I mopped it out with a clean cloth. I'll check the drain and have a look at my fuel.

Engine breather hoses usually go to the airbox to recycle the fumes ... Small amounts of oil can be accepted.


Plugs are clean and gapped.

Fucked plugs that are clean and gapped STILL wont work properly ...

[GSF]

I used to have a 250 Bandit, earlier than yours though - 1992.

In my experience, those things absolutely hate not being run for a while. Been inactive for more than a month, right?

Carbs may be varnished up with fuel, mine had trouble with that and also worn emulsion tubes/needle jets until I replaced them.
They also run like a bag of arseholes if the carbs are going out of synch.

I'd recommend checking your fuel tank, line, fuel petcock vacuum line, petcock and then the carbs themselves. 90% of all the trouble I ever had with mine was carb related (finicky bloody little 250cc IL4s!) and especially after a prolonged period of inactivity. They might be out of synch, gunged up, worn emulsion tubes, perished or otherwise puckered diaphragms.

Mine also used to leave a bit of oil in the airbox - it had slightly worn rings, blowby pressurising the crankcase and sending oil into the airbox. If you ever do a compression test and find it slightly under spec, it's probably that :)

[scary]

Engine breather hoses usually go to the airbox to recycle the fumes ... Small amounts of oil can be accepted.

Sweet.


Fucked plugs that are clean and gapped STILL wont worked properly ...

+10,000,000 for that one mate. New plugs coaxed the bastard back to life! Coughed and shat itself for 5 minutes on choke, dying if I tried to move the throttle, then it settled down nicely. F yeah.

[oldiebutagoody]

If it happens again check your battery output and condition. It might have deteriorated in a Month sitting idle, as previously mentioned just enough to kick it into life once then nada...... Your difficult start could be due to low system voltage, and recovered a bit once some charge was fed back into the battery when running a while. I'd give the battery a real deep slow cycle charge.

Coils require min 11v to fire the plugs but make a much fatter spark at 12.4v.

Depending on the voltage drop across the loom due to corrosion etc at terminals and plugs, a dying battery can give the symptoms you gave, including a poor start on choke.

First thing I was taught by my mentor was "new sparkers mask a multitude of sins".

[scary]

I used to have a 250 Bandit, earlier than yours though - 1992.

In my experience, those things absolutely hate not being run for a while. Been inactive for more than a month, right?

Carbs may be varnished up with fuel, mine had trouble with that and also worn emulsion tubes/needle jets until I replaced them.
They also run like a bag of arseholes if the carbs are going out of synch.

I'd recommend checking your fuel tank, line, fuel petcock vacuum line, petcock and then the carbs themselves. 90% of all the trouble I ever had with mine was carb related (finicky bloody little 250cc IL4s!) and especially after a prolonged period of inactivity. They might be out of synch, gunged up, worn emulsion tubes, perished or otherwise puckered diaphragms.

Mine also used to leave a bit of oil in the airbox - it had slightly worn rings, blowby pressurising the crankcase and sending oil into the airbox. If you ever do a compression test and find it slightly under spec, it's probably that :)

This is great advice. The bike's my daily ride so doesn't sit for more than a long weekend most of the year. I haven't touched the carbs since I got it and they definitely need seeing too as the bike's got a flat spot in the throttle now and doesn't idle smoothly. The emulsion tubes have been mentioned to me before as a cause of this but I'm a bit intimidated by the prospect so I've been dodging it. I guess I need to man up! The petcock and fuel lines are an easy job though so I guess I can start there. :cool:

Out of interest is that injector cleaner stuff you add to your tank any good?

[scary]

If it happens again check your battery output and condition. It might have deteriorated in a Month sitting idle, as previously mentioned just enough to kick it into life once then nada...... Your difficult start could be due to low system voltage, and recovered a bit once some charge was fed back into the battery when running a while. I'd give the battery a real deep slow cycle charge.

Coils require min 11v to fire the plugs but make a much fatter spark at 12.4v.

Depending on the voltage drop across the loom due to corrosion etc at terminals and plugs, a dying battery can give the symptoms you gave, including a poor start on choke.

First thing I was taught by my mentor was "new sparkers mask a multitude of sins".

I've been "cycling it" the whole weekend trying to start the bike then putting it back on charge while I tinker. Probably not a nice thing to do to the battery but it was new last winter so hopefully its taken its beating like a man.

Good words on the sparks and at $26 for the four its hardly an expensive fix. Wish I'd done the smart thing and changed them when I did the water pump seals but I had to work out how to get them out first!

[Big Dog]

Out of interest is that injector cleaner stuff you add to your tank any good?

Not for carbs. It can fuck the rubbers ( unless it says injector and carb cleaner).

When I have run carbed bikes I have always chucked a 1/4 bottle of carb cleaner (one bottle should treat 55l but you probably have an 18l or less fill, most cleaners have an booster so that an change is perceived to be immediate which can make performance a little snatchy until you add more fuel if you put it all in) at it if it starts running differently. Usually once a season in the nineties. About once a year since they changes the fuel standards late 90's. I wanna say 98?

On the advice of my mechanic at the time I sometimes used a 1/4 cup of diesel per 30 litres instead so about a tablespoon if you have a typical 18l tank. That was more for poor throttle response on back off or flat spots in the mid range.
Runs rough when the diesel hits the carb.

With either: Expect a little extra smoke but not for long.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[GSF]

This is great advice. The bike's my daily ride so doesn't sit for more than a long weekend most of the year. I haven't touched the carbs since I got it and they definitely need seeing too as the bike's got a flat spot in the throttle now and doesn't idle smoothly. The emulsion tubes have been mentioned to me before as a cause of this but I'm a bit intimidated by the prospect so I've been dodging it. I guess I need to man up! The petcock and fuel lines are an easy job though so I guess I can start there. :cool:

Out of interest is that injector cleaner stuff you add to your tank any good?

Never used it on any of my bikes, I prefer just to dismantle the carbs every now and then and give them a good clean. It's a great way to get to know your bike too. Try find a Haynes manual or workshop manual to help you, or an exploded parts diagram so you know what the guts of your carbies look like before you open them up.

http://www.bike-parts-suz.com/thumbs/s/moto_img/suz_img_7/1000_1000/dp014959.png - Are these what your ones look like?

Number the carbs 1 to 4 from left to right across the engine as you take them off and do them one at a time so you don't get any parts mixed up. Take your time and be careful as you dismantle them because carbies love to have spring-loaded bits hiding under caps or covers so something might shoot out and get lost, be careful when taking the black tops off the vacuum chamber and handle the diaphragms with care. I like to work on them in big cardboard box which I cut down so it's very shallow, the cardboard absorbs any dripped petrol or cleaner and also stops you losing anything that falls out and tries to roll away.

To do a carb synch you'll need a set of vacuum gauges, or you can try bodging up a home-made manometer. There's heaps of instructions online for how to make your own.

PS: check all your float heights while your're in there and take photos as you dismantle them, easy to forget things like which position you had the clip on the needle etc.

[ducatilover]

Next time it fags around after sitting a little, turn the fuel tap to prime and blow gently down the carb breather tube, it'll force fuel up the needles and it'll fire up
Then do a mega skid yo