Cancer and the drug companies

[RDJ]

I am in the belief that those that use drugs and drive now ... will continue if and when it is a legal drug. But ... what sort of percentage of "new" users are you expecting when legal status arrives .. that start using it because it is legal .. ??



Not as frequently reported you mean ... it's just not as newsworthy as "Another Drunk Driver Kills" ... :crazy:

Or do you just base your opinions on your own personal experiences ... ??? ;)

In other words ... if it hasn't happened to you already ... it probably won't ... maybe ... right .. ?? :scratch:

Fatal (including motorcycle) accidents are usually caused by a sequence of factors ... not always any of them being particulary dangerous on their own. But actual timing of them can make it serious. In particular ... one small error of yours in combination of one of the motorist coming towards you can and does turn fatal.


The last 35 years you've been lucky. Most will hope the luck continue. But please do not rely on luck ... or it being unlikely that another motorists mistake will never affect you.



I would say that more sober drivers are found to be at fault in accidents (than drink/Drug impaired ones) ... and ALSO need to be cared for. Blaming THEM is just as fruitless ... and I fail to see your point.



Maybe .... the drunk and drugged ones should be too ... :shutup:

But ... their organs might not be in a good enough condition to be suitable for donation ... :whistle:



Who is "Everybody Else" .. ???

Do you mean those that are not stoned or drunk getting priority treatment ... and not those needing priority treatment ... ???

I cannot see the medical fraternity agreeing to this.

I guess am just not writing clearly enough. So let me just address your last point. Yes, those that are stoned or drunk often get priority treatment simply because they are so demanding and difficult to deal with and basically interfere with the normal triage processes.

However, we try to work on the basis that those that are not stoned or drunk as well as those that are stoned and/or drunk, get treated on the basis of the priority of their injury severity - not on the basis of their degree of intoxication nor their state of obnoxiousness.

In a previous post, someone commented that he "didn't care about those who were stoned or pissed, just the ones they hurt". But hospital staff have to care for all comers whether sober, reasonable, stoned or pissed; again, in order of priority of severity of injury. Therefore there are a lot of sober taxpaying citizens waiting much longer than they should be, while the drunk'n'stoned consume resources. Hopefully that's clear.

The other problem is that regardless of severity of injury, the drunk'nstoned consume a lot of staff time simply keeping them quiet, stopping them from interfering with other patients, being obnoxious to the triage nurse and other staff, and in general behaving exactly as one would expect for people who were witless enough to get drunk'n'stoned in the first place, and wandering around with a load on board and no constraints on their misbehaviour.

One other point to make here based on statistical evidence: just under half of all drivers who died in a crash and tested positive for drugs also tested positive for alcohol (and so vice versa). Proportionately, sober drivers are less more likely to be involved in all accidents including fatal accidents, then drug or alcohol impaired drivers. that doesn't disprove your point that many sober drivers are responsible for fatal and serious injury accidents, but it does somewhat dilute it.

Well, now I'm going riding :scooter::scooter::scooter:

[FJRider]

In a previous post, someone commented that he "didn't care about those who were stoned or pissed, just the ones they hurt".

Sounds like something I would say ... :innocent:


Perhaps treatment of those not at fault first ... and those under the (any) influence needs a police escort before being treated.




Sorted ... ;)

[Edbear]

I guess am just not writing clearly enough. So let me just address your last point. Yes, those that are stoned or drunk often get priority treatment simply because they are so demanding and difficult to deal with and basically interfere with the normal triage processes.

However, we try to work on the basis that those that are not stoned or drunk as well as those that are stoned and/or drunk, get treated on the basis of the priority of their injury severity - not on the basis of their degree of intoxication nor their state of obnoxiousness.

In a previous post, someone commented that he "didn't care about those who were stoned or pissed, just the ones they hurt". But hospital staff have to care for all comers whether sober, reasonable, stoned or pissed; again, in order of priority of severity of injury. Therefore there are a lot of sober taxpaying citizens waiting much longer than they should be, while the drunk'n'stoned consume resources. Hopefully that's clear.

The other problem is that regardless of severity of injury, the drunk'nstoned consume a lot of staff time simply keeping them quiet, stopping them from interfering with other patients, being obnoxious to the triage nurse and other staff, and in general behaving exactly as one would expect for people who were witless enough to get drunk'n'stoned in the first place, and wandering around with a load on board and no constraints on their misbehaviour.

One other point to make here based on statistical evidence: just under half of all drivers who died in a crash and tested positive for drugs also tested positive for alcohol (and so vice versa). Proportionately, sober drivers are less more likely to be involved in all accidents including fatal accidents, then drug or alcohol impaired drivers. that doesn't disprove your point that many sober drivers are responsible for fatal and serious injury accidents, but it does somewhat dilute it.

Well, now I'm going riding :scooter::scooter::scooter:

Well said!


Sounds like something I would say ... :innocent:

Perhaps treatment of those not at fault first ... and those under the (any) influence needs a police escort before being treated.

Sorted ... ;)

Maybe just give them a shot to quiet them down and then go on to the most needy? Or have a rubber mallet on hand? Gag and handcuffs? :shifty:

[Akzle]

Heart-breaking news but Alex Renton passed away this evening.

the fucken silly bint was dosing him while he was stikl being fed pharmaceuticals. Damn.

Weed works.

[Laava]

the fucken silly bint was dosing him while he was stikl being fed pharmaceuticals. Damn.

Weed works.

Didn't work for this poor little girl.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558

[Katman]

Didn't work for this poor little girl.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558

Keeping toddlers and children away from illicit drugs is no different to keeping them away from pharmaceuticals, cleaning products, weapons, unpredictable animals etc.

(Note though, the cannabis didn't kill her).

[husaberg]

Didn't work for this poor little girl.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558
Reminds me of this...........


Or your toddler has got into your stash...........

The OP was what would justify a death sentence I don't think anyone has yet suggested dope possession.

I note that of the Bali 9 only two were sentenced to death, as they were the ring leaders.
I also note it was for 8.3 kg (18 lb) of heroin from Indonesia to Australia. Not for a few doobies.



Well like I said, leave Cannabis out of it (see what I did there) if you're looking for a danger to a toddler who can't roll a splif.


They should be safe as long as they can't roll a doobie.

They could eat it - but it wouldn't do them shit.

[Edbear]

Keeping toddlers and children away from illicit drugs is no different to keeping them away from pharmaceuticals, cleaning products, weapons, unpredictable animals etc.

(Note though, the cannabis didn't kill her).

That's a dumb thing to claim! It damn near did kill her, and it most likely would have had she not been taken to hospital in time!

[Katman]

Reminds me of this...........

Nice try but no cigar.

It sounds like the guy dealt in cannabis oil.

From the research I have done it appears that it is the heating process that turns THCA into the psychoactive variant THC.

http://www.cannabis.info/us/abc/30007188-cannabis-decarboxylation&hloc=1

So it would appear that eating unheated cannabis leaf would do fuck all to you.

[husaberg]

Nice try but no cigar.

It sounds like the guy dealt in cannabis oil.

From the research I have done it appears that it is the heating process that turns THCA into the psychoactive variant THC.

http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/decarboxylating-cannabis-turning-thca-into-thc/

So it would appear that eating unheated cannabis leaf would do fuck all to you.

I am not the one that's trying to justify a pretty stupid statement made.
But go ahead if you try hard enough you should be able to find a link that says it probably good for them aye.

[Katman]

I am not the one that's trying to justify a pretty stupid statement made.
But go ahead if you try hard enough you should be able to find a link that says it probably good for them aye.

And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.

[husaberg]

And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.

True, but of course that was not your original statement at all, But goes with the normal Katman theme anyway, As being a pretty obvious hypocrite has never really worried you in the past, I don't realistically expect much to change in the future then either.


Note

Iperen and his partner separated in January but both shared custody of the child. Iperen initially told a paediatrician his daughter got hold of some cannabis but he did not think she had ingested any. He later told police she got up about 6am and went to the kitchen where it appeared she gained access to a box containing cannabis plant and played with it before consuming some of it.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558

[bogan]

That's a dumb thing to claim! It damn near did kill her, and it most likely would have had she not been taken to hospital in time!

No Ed, Katman's claims had nothing wrong with them (this time). What is a dumb claim is that you say it most likely would have killed her if she hadn't been taken to hospital; what exactly is that claim based on?

[husaberg]

No Ed, Katman's claims had nothing wrong with them (this time). What is a dumb claim is that you say it most likely would have killed her if she hadn't been taken to hospital; what exactly is that claim based on?




Iperen said she looked fine for the rest of the day but he expressed concern in a text to his former partner that evening that the child appeared "all dopey".

She advised him to take her to the White Cross, but he did not despite later admitting that she could not stand, sit up, or do anything and was not to herself.
The toddler was semi-comatose, unresponsive to voice, and only responsive to stimuli by movement of her limbs when brought to the hospital on February 27
In sentencing Iperen, Judge Duncan Harvey said the skills of medical staff ensured the child made a full recovery

If medical attention had not been sought, there was a possibility the child could have stopped breathing.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558


While it way seem knee jerk, the actual court statements (As reported)point to a strong risk of outcomes including fatality.

But as the child appears to have only ingested cannabis plant material desite what Katmans has subsequently backtracking and straw grasping............


Nice try but no cigar.
It sounds like the guy dealt in cannabis oil.
So it would appear that eating unheated cannabis leaf would do fuck all to you.


And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.

Note
Iperen and his partner separated in January but both shared custody of the child. Iperen initially told a paediatrician his daughter got hold of some cannabis but he did not think she had ingested any. He later told police she got up about 6am and went to the kitchen where it appeared she gained access to a box containing cannabis plant and played with it before consuming some of it.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558

[bogan]

While it way seem knee jerk, the actual court statements (As reported)point to a strong risk of outcomes including fatality.

When it is a child, even 5% is a strong risk. It is not however, most likely.

[husaberg]

When it is a child, even 5% is a strong risk. It is not however, most likely.
Thankfully we will never know, but it sure didn't "do fuck all" or "wouldn't do shit"

A day later
The toddler was semi-comatose, unresponsive to voice, and only responsive to stimuli by movement of her limbs when brought to the hospital on February 27.

[Katman]

Thankfully we will never know, but it sure didn't "do fuck all" or "wouldn't do shit"

Maybe it was some cannabis oil she ingested.

It still didn't kill her though.

[husaberg]

Maybe it was some cannabis oil she ingested.
It still didn't kill her though.

if if if .....but but but maybe maybe.....if only.............back to the grasping at the strawman defence
Thankfully it didn't kill her. True, but of course that was not your original statement at all, But goes with the normal Katman theme anyway, As being a pretty obvious hypocrite has never really worried you in the past, I don't realistically expect much to change in the future then either.


Note
Iperen and his partner separated in January but both shared custody of the child. Iperen initially told a paediatrician his daughter got hold of some cannabis but he did not think she had ingested any. He later told police she got up about 6am and went to the kitchen where it appeared she gained access to a box containing cannabis plant and played with it before consuming some of it.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558

And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.

So it would appear that eating unheated cannabis leaf would do fuck all to you.

Well like I said, leave Cannabis out of it (see what I did there) if you're looking for a danger to a toddler who can't roll a splif.

[Katman]

Thankfully it didn't kill her.

You're probably disappointed it didn't.

Imagine the gloating you could have done if it had.

[husaberg]

You're probably disappointed it didn't.

Imagine the gloating you could have done if it had.

You are a sick prick, I am hoping you have no kids. As only someone who isn't or shouldn't be a parent would come up with something like that.
I am merely pointing out you are wrong no mater what propaganda you find on an Pro cannabis agenda website, You are wrong in the claims below. What would be useful is if you would ever show some balls and man up and admit that you were wrong. Of course that is most unlikely.



Note
Iperen and his partner separated in January but both shared custody of the child. Iperen initially told a paediatrician his daughter got hold of some cannabis but he did not think she had ingested any. He later told police she got up about 6am and went to the kitchen where it appeared she gained access to a box containing cannabis plant and played with it before consuming some of it.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558

And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.

So it would appear that eating unheated cannabis leaf would do fuck all to you.

Well like I said, leave Cannabis out of it (see what I did there) if you're looking for a danger to a toddler who can't roll a splif.

[Edbear]

Thankfully we will never know, but it sure didn't "do fuck all" or "wouldn't do shit"


You are a sick prick, I am hoping you have no kids. As only someone who isn't or shouldn't be a parent would come up with something like that.
I am merely pointing out you are wrong no mater what propaganda you find on an Pro cannabis agenda website, You are wrong in the claims below. What would be useful is if you would ever show some balls and man up and admit that you were wrong. Of course that is most unlikely.


While it way seem knee jerk, the actual court statements (As reported)point to a strong risk of outcomes including fatality.

But as the child appears to have only ingested cannabis plant material desite what Katmans has subsequently backtracking and straw grasping............

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558

Some people either don't, or can't read... You're wasting your time with these idiots.

[Laava]

And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.

You didn't say product, you said leaf. Very different scenario from the buds or some of that powdery shit that coats it.

[husaberg]

You didn't say product, you said leaf. Very different scenario from the buds or some of that powdery shit that coats it.

He actually originally said Cannabis................. now he is trying the normal "bitch moves" and maybe if back tracks.........:2thumbsup

Well like I said, leave Cannabis out of it (see what I did there) if you're looking for a danger to a toddler who can't roll a splif.


So it would appear that eating unheated cannabis leaf would do fuck all to you.


And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.

Soon he will be on the Maybe the 11 month old heated it up..............
What you will never hear is him actually admitting he was obviously wrong. Narcissists are like that.

[Katman]

Very different scenario from the buds or some of that powdery shit that coats it.

Apparently not - if it's unheated.

Have you ever wondered why you don't see people chopping up a bud to throw into their salad?

[Katman]

You are a sick prick, I am hoping you have no kids.

Nope, no kids that I'm aware of.

[bogan]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558

Some people either don't, or can't read... You're wasting your time with these idiots.

Speaking of idiots who can't read, where does the most likely claim come from again?

[Katman]

And so anyway, looks like we're still at.....

Deaths from asprin overdose - lots.

Deaths from cannabis overdose - zero.

[nodrog]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/051712top-i.jpg

[husaberg]

And so anyway, looks like we're still at.....

Deaths from asprin overdose - lots.

Deaths from cannabis overdose - zero.

Note He actually originally said Cannabis would do fuck all to a kid no danger to a toddler if ingested................. now he is trying the normal "bitch moves" and maybe if back tracks.........:2thumbsup

Well like I said, leave Cannabis out of it (see what I did there) if you're looking for a danger to a toddler who can't roll a splif.


So it would appear that eating unheated cannabis leaf would do fuck all to you.


And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.


What you will never hear is him actually admitting he was obviously wrong. I look forward to more if only and what ifs...............I especially like how you know so much more than medical professionals and coroners..........

[TheDemonLord]

I really wish that Marijuana was legal.

I would love to be able to buy a good quality product, from a reputable business, pay the required Tax, and sit at home and enjoy a joint at the end of a hard days work.

Idiots like the person in the News Article are the reason we can't have Legal Weed.

[oldrider]

I really wish that Marijuana was legal.

I would love to be able to buy a good quality product, from a reputable business, pay the required Tax, and sit at home and enjoy a joint at the end of a hard days work.

Idiots like the person in the News Article are the reason we can't have Legal Weed.

Totally agree!

For those that do fine - I don't - but those arseholes who cause Marijuana to be criminalised do the the world and the plant a terrible injustice! IMHO! :crazy:

[Katman]

Idiots like the person in the News Article are the reason we can't have Legal Weed.

Children manage to kill themselves with unsecured firearms yet we still allow people to own firearms.

Children manage to kill themselves drinking household cleaners and solvents yet shops still sell cleaners and solvents.

Children manage to kill themselves by helping themselves to their parents pharmaceutical drugs yet countless bathroom cupboards contain an array of pharmaceutical drugs.

The idiot in the news article is just an idiot.

He is not an excuse for the continuing criminalisation of cannabis.

[TheDemonLord]

Children manage to kill themselves with unsecured firearms yet we still allow people to own firearms.

Children manage to kill themselves drinking household cleaners and solvents yet shops still sell cleaners and solvents.

Children manage to kill themselves by helping themselves to their parents pharmaceutical drugs yet countless bathroom cupboards contain an array of pharmaceutical drugs.

The idiot in the news article is just an idiot.

He is not an excuse for the continuing criminalisation of cannabis.

I agree with your sentiment, the problem is that all those things are currently Legal, whereas Cannabis is Illegal. To make something Legal, we have to convince the opposition of its lack of Risk, bearing in mind that they have already determined that Cannabis is bad, cause its a Drug and Drugs are bad, and also its Illegal and illegal is bad. Seeing something like this will only further Entrench them in their opinion

[husaberg]

He is not an excuse for the continuing criminalisation of cannabis.
Notice how the thread has become a Katman and a few others want to legalise cannabis thread, in the guise that it hugely medicinal of course.
Maybe people would show a bit more respect to the pro Cannabis viewpoint if your ilk just man'd up and said that's you want dope legalised. Cause you want to smoke dope.


Children manage to kill themselves with unsecured firearms yet we still allow people to own firearms.

Children manage to kill themselves drinking household cleaners and solvents yet shops still sell cleaners and solvents.

Children manage to kill themselves by helping themselves to their parents pharmaceutical drugs yet countless bathroom cupboards contain an array of pharmaceutical drugs.

The idiot in the news article is just an idiot.
.


Note
Iperen and his partner separated in January but both shared custody of the child. Iperen initially told a paediatrician his daughter got hold of some cannabis but he did not think she had ingested any. He later told police she got up about 6am and went to the kitchen where it appeared she gained access to a box containing cannabis plant and played with it before consuming some of it.
She advised him to take her to the White Cross, but he did not despite later admitting that she could not stand, sit up, or do anything and was not to herself.
The toddler was semi-comatose, unresponsive to voice, and only responsive to stimuli by movement of her limbs when brought to the hospital on February 27
In sentencing Iperen, Judge Duncan Harvey said the skills of medical staff ensured the child made a full recovery

If medical attention had not been sought, there was a possibility the child could have stopped breathing.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11485558


All above may well be true but what you said below is not.

And I'm happy to stand by my statement that eating unheated cannabis product would do fuck all to you.

So it would appear that eating unheated cannabis leaf would do fuck all to you.

Well like I said, leave Cannabis out of it (see what I did there) if you're looking for a danger to a toddler who can't roll a splif.

[Akzle]

Children manage to kill themselves with unsecured firearms yet we still allow people to own firearms.

Children manage to kill themselves drinking household cleaners and solvents yet shops still sell cleaners and solvents.

Children manage to kill themselves by helping themselves to their parents pharmaceutical drugs yet countless bathroom cupboards contain an array of pharmaceutical drugs.

The idiot in the news article is just an idiot.

He is not an excuse for the continuing criminalisation of cannabis.

and statistically youre more likely to be injured or killed on, in, near, but probably by: a car
, than any of those.



*nb, cars dont kill people, women do.

//Err. I mean, poor drivers and otherwise morons, do.
...with cars.

[FJRider]

Children manage to kill themselves with unsecured firearms yet we still allow people to own firearms.

Children manage to kill themselves drinking household cleaners and solvents yet shops still sell cleaners and solvents.

Children manage to kill themselves by helping themselves to their parents pharmaceutical drugs yet countless bathroom cupboards contain an array of pharmaceutical drugs.

The idiot in the news article is just an idiot.

He is not an excuse for the continuing criminalisation of cannabis.

The first three are parental responsibility ... if they choose to kill their children by their idiocy ... be it on their own head (and conscience) ...

Being an idiot is NOT (apparently) illegal (but it is illegal to kill them).

But ... many of the rules, regulations, and leglisation in NZ ... are made to suit the understanding and behaviour of the lowest common idiot.




The old saying ... buld a system any fool can use ... only fools will use it ... comes to mind ...

[Edbear]

Notice how the thread has become a Katman and a few others want to legalise cannabis thread, in the guise that it hugely medicinal of course.
Maybe people would show a bit more respect to the pro Cannabis viewpoint if your ilk just man'd up and said that's you want dope legalised. Cause you want to smoke dope.

All above may well be true but what you said below is not.

Are you seriously asking for honesty and integrity on KB by these such? :lol:

[FJRider]

Are you seriously asking for honesty and integrity on KB by these such? :lol:



But ... but ... I am ...









if it's convernient ...




maybe ...

[FJRider]

and statistically youre more likely to be injured or killed on, in, near, but probably by: a car
, than any of those.



*nb, cars dont kill people, women do.

//Err. I mean, poor drivers and otherwise morons, do.
...with cars.

BULLSHIT ... I walked past a car today ... NO issues ... :nono:




Perhaps ... it wasn't THAT car that hates me ... :blank:

[Akzle]

BULLSHIT ... I walked past a car today ... NO issues ... :nono:




Perhaps ... it wasn't THAT car that hates me ... :blank:



*nb, cars dont kill people,

see if you can work it out this time.
dweeb.

[husaberg]

Are you seriously asking for honesty and integrity on KB by these such? :lol:

I was thinking maybe he might actually come to the obvious conclusion that he was epically wrong yet again.
He was clearly a bit miffed to be shown to be wrong, highlighted by his instant red rep and abuse.
He's a thin skinned little precious princess like that.
As he Thinks he's special, but is only a typical narcissist

[FJRider]

see if you can work it out this time.
dweeb.

Next time I walk past a car ... I won't worry then ... ;)

Thanks for the heads up .. :calm:

[mashman]

Australia may legalize medical marijuana in August – report (http://www.rt.com/news/310768-australia-marijuana-medical-legalise/)... almost 100 years late but hey, no one has noticed.

[Berries]

Australia may legalize medical marijuana in August – report (http://www.rt.com/news/310768-australia-marijuana-medical-legalise/)... almost 100 years late but hey, no one has noticed.
Pretty sure that when I lived there in the late 80's it was legal, in fact I think it might have been compulsory. My memory is fucked though so who knows.............

[mashman]

‘French Kissing’ Creates Greater Risk of Head and Neck Cancer Than Smoking, Say Doctors (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/french-kissing-creates-greater-risk-170326067.html#vb7Coqa)

[Paul in NZ]

‘French Kissing’ Creates Greater Risk of Head and Neck Cancer Than Smoking, Say Doctors (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/french-kissing-creates-greater-risk-170326067.html#vb7Coqa)

Good lord you might be onto something

http://www.wcrf.org/int/cancer-facts-figures/data-cancer-frequency-country

France has a very high incidence of cancer

[mashman]

Good lord you might be onto something

http://www.wcrf.org/int/cancer-facts-figures/data-cancer-frequency-country

France has a very high incidence of cancer

I know that a Glasgow kiss breaks ones nose... so it's good to know that all I have to do is not go to France and I'll be sweet lol.

[Paul in NZ]

all I have to do is not go to France and I'll be sweet lol.

Yeah - it might take more than that to make you sweet....

[Edbear]

I know that a Glasgow kiss breaks ones nose... so it's good to know that all I have to do is not go to France and I'll be sweet lol.

Or Glasgow by the sounds of it.

[mashman]

Yeah - it might take more than that to make you sweet....

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa... perhaps a dab of channel no.5 is all I need?


Or Glasgow by the sounds of it.

Great great great great great city... never headbutted once... but have seen them happen at close enough range to know I don't want one lol.

[mashman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqMohmjJ4mg&feature=youtu.be

Watch it!

[Milts]

A more useful (and concise!) video:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7tzaWOdvGMw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Katman]

Good old pharmaceutical companies.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-09-21/why-turing-increased-price-of-daraprim-over-500-

At least Ed loves them.

[mashman]

Good old pharmaceutical companies.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-09-21/why-turing-increased-price-of-daraprim-over-500-

At least Ed loves them.

Yeah, butz gotzez to raisez moneyzez for the future needzez of the peoplezez. The bank must want their money back.

[Katman]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-evils-of-big-pharma-exposed/5425382

[bogan]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-evils-of-big-pharma-exposed/5425382

False, jet fuel can melt steel beams.

[Katman]

http://www.feelguide.com/2014/01/12/90-of-prescriptions-exposed-as-a-scam-massive-corruption-uncovered-between-doctors-big-pharma/

[Katman]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/03/18/we-are-trained-to-misinform-ex-big-pharma-sales-rep-speaks-out-about-the-deception-in-the-pharmaceutical-industry/

[husaberg]

http://www.feelguide.com/2014/01/12/90-of-prescriptions-exposed-as-a-scam-massive-corruption-uncovered-between-doctors-big-pharma/

Incorrect It clearly didn't fall into its footprint at all..............

[Katman]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/04/19/shocking-facts-about-the-pharmaceutical-industry.aspx

[Katman]

And a youtube video to keep bogan happy.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CSAhXeB_jzA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Katman]

And the highly amusing part is that the likes of TheDemonLard will immediately accuse anyone who dares to question the vaccination process of simply wanting to see thousands of babies die.

That sort of argument goes way beyond fucking moronic.

[husaberg]

And the highly amusing part is that the likes of TheDemonLard will immediately accuse anyone who dares to question the vaccination process of simply wanting to see thousands of babies die.

That sort of argument goes way beyond fucking moronic.

Unlike the thousands of children's deaths and misery this guy is likely responsible for.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/

Then again you don't have kids do you.

[Katman]

Unlike the thousands of children's deaths and misery this guy is likely responsible for.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/

From one of the links on the previous page.

Because Big Pharma sometimes outright owns and largely controls today’s most prominent medical journals, spreading false propaganda, disinformation and lies about the so called miracle effects of a given drug is yet another common practice that is malevolent to the core. 98% of the advertising revenue of medical journals is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. Shoddy and false claims based on shoddy and false research all controlled by Big Pharma often get published in so called reputable journals giving the green light to questionable drugs that are either ineffective or worse yet even harmful. Yet they regularly pass peer and FDA muster with rave reviews.



Then again you don't have kids do you.

And if I did I'd be asking a whole lot more questions of the whole vaccination process.

[bogan]

And a youtube video to keep bogan happy.

I prefer this one...

[husaberg]

From one of the links on the previous page.

Because Big Pharma sometimes outright owns and largely controls today’s most prominent medical journals, spreading false propaganda, disinformation and lies about the so called miracle effects of a given drug is yet another common practice that is malevolent to the core. 98% of the advertising revenue of medical journals is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. Shoddy and false claims based on shoddy and false research all controlled by Big Pharma often get published in so called reputable journals giving the green light to questionable drugs that are either ineffective or worse yet even harmful. Yet they regularly pass peer and FDA muster with rave reviews.

According to BMJ, Wakefield received more than 435,000 pounds ($674,000) from the families lawyers. Godlee said the study shows that of the 12 cases Wakefield examined in his paper, five showed developmental problems before receiving the MMR vaccine and three never had autism at all.
Lets see which claim is subjective and which one is based on facts................

And if I did I'd be asking a whole lot more questions of the whole vaccination process.
That's because you are a pathetic moron, it pleases me greatly to think your genes along with yokels will not be added to the gene pool.

[Katman]

That's because you are a pathetic moron, it pleases me greatly to think your genes will not be added further to the gene pool.

Better to be labelled a pathetic moron than be labelled willfully ignorant of what was being pumped into your child though.

[husaberg]

I would far prefer to be labelled a pathetic moron than be labelled willfully ignorant of what was being pumped into my child.

Firstly there is ample evidence to label you as a pathetic moron and you are also often labelled as wilfully ignorant because of your inability to assess what is facts and what is subjective biased hearsay, regardless. So what's your actual point?
You cherry pick points to quote the exact same way as you select out only information that suits your own agenda.

[Katman]

So what's your actual point.


That the pharmaceutical industry is rife with greed and corruption and is probably far more bothered by a 3 billion dollar fine than by any number of deaths that their fraudulent practices have been responsible for.

(But hey, 3 billion wasn't even a tenth of the profits that were made).

[husaberg]

That the pharmaceutical industry is rife with greed and corruption and is probably far more bothered by a 3 billion dollar fine than by any number of deaths that their fraudulent practices have been responsible for.

(But hey, 3 billion wasn't even a tenth of the profits that were made).

As I said in the post above
With a cherry on top

[awa355]

So, what did you two guys give each other for Christmas?? :bash::bash:

Actually you both make some good points, amidst the handbagging.

[bogan]

Actually you both make some good points.

Citation needed. :laugh:

[husaberg]

So, what did you two guys give each other for Christmas?? :bash::bash:

Actually you both make some good points, amidst the handbagging.
He gave me quite a few laughs over his blatant hypocrisy and conspiracy blindness, I guess maybe I should learn to be more tolerant of his religious beliefs. Seeing its was just Xmas
As for katflam well He begged heaps of dudes to suck his cock as far as I am a aware no dude is quite that desperate (other than maybe Yokel)
318457

[Katman]

According to BMJ....

https://theamericanscholar.org/flacking-for-big-pharma/#.VocvcrZ97Dc

[husaberg]

https://theamericanscholar.org/flacking-for-big-pharma/#.VocvcrZ97Dc
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm
Undisclosed financial intersts


Before Deer’s inquiries, Wakefield had appeared to all the world to be an independent, if controversial, researcher. Tall and square-headed, with hooded eyes and a booming voice, he was the son of doctors (a neurologist and a family practitioner), had grown up in Bath, a prosperous west-of-England spa town, and joined the Royal Free in November 1988 after training in Toronto, Canada. His demeanour was languid - he was privately educated - and, born in 1956, he was a lingering example of the presumed honour of the upper middle class.

But Deer's investigation - nominated in February 2011 for two British Press Awards - discovered that, while Wakefield held himself out to be a dispassionate scientist, two years before the Lancet paper was published - and before any of the 12 children were even referred to the hospital - he had been hired to attack MMR by a lawyer, Richard Barr: a jobbing solicitor in the small eastern English town of King's Lynn, who hoped to raise a speculative class action lawsuit against drug companies which manufactured the triple shot.Unlike expert witnesses, who give professional advice and opinions, Wakefield had negotiated an unprecedented contract with Barr, then aged 48, to conduct clinical and scientific research. The goal was to find evidence of what the two men claimed to be a "new syndrome", intended to be the centrepiece of (later failed) litigation on behalf of an eventual 1,600 British families, recruited through media stories. This publicly undisclosed role for Wakefield created the grossest conflict of interest, and the exposure of it by Deer, in February 2004, led to public uproar in Britain, the retraction of the Lancet report's conclusions section, and, from July 2007 to May 2010, the longest-ever professional misconduct hearing by the UK's General Medical Council (GMC).



Andrew Wakefield is both revered and reviled. To a small group of parents, he’s a hero who won’t back down from his assertion that the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine can cause autism.

To most, however, he’s the man who authored a fraudulent study that has been refuted many times and was retracted by the journal that published it, a man whose views carry dangerous consequences for all of us. They will tell you that the former doctor—stripped of his license in 2010 by the U.K.’s General Medical Council for ethical violations and failure to disclose potentially competing financial interests—has derailed public confidence in vaccination programs that were safely eradicating serious and highly contagious diseases.



To most, however, he’s the man who authored a fraudulent study that has been refuted many times and was retracted by the journal that published it, a man whose views carry dangerous consequences for all of us. They will tell you that the former doctor—stripped of his license in 2010 by the U.K.’s General Medical Council for ethical violations and failure to disclose potentially competing financial interests—has derailed public confidence in vaccination programs that were safely eradicating serious and highly contagious diseases.

In the wake of the most recent measles outbreak in the U.S.—which began at the Disneyland theme park in Southern California in late December 2014 and has since spread to 17 states and infected more than 100 people—Wakefield defends his views about the measles vaccine. “The responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of those that have been involved in vaccine policymaking, which is totally inadequate and bordering on dangerous,” he says. “The government has only themselves to blame for this problem.”

http://shotofprevention.com/tag/andrew-wakefield/



A new study, which investigated data from the National Immunization Surveys published between 1995 and 2006, confirms what public health advocates already suspected. As the Medical Daily blog reported yesterday, the study determined that “Childhood vaccinations decreased in response to the fears surrounding autism risks.” It’s remarkable that even today, despite the existence of widespread research that fails to show any link between autism and vaccinations, this false belief continues to persist.

Many of the parents I’ve spoken to over the years don’t even realize that the premise for these fears stemmed from a small, but well publicized study conducted by Andrew Wakefield and published in The Lancet in 1998. Since then, many researchers tried to verify Wakefield’s claims, only to discover that their research proved the opposite. Study after study failed to show vaccinations were in any way contributing to the incidence of autism. Then in 2010, after evidence of tampering and undeclared conflicts of interest, Andrew Wakefield was ultimately stripped of his medical license due to the seriousness of his professional misconduct and The Lancet retracted the fraudulent study that first sparked the suggestion of a vaccine/autism link.
But years later the damage is proving extremely difficult to undo. There are still many people who cling to Wakefield’s study as proof of a correlation. The latest analysis from the soon-to-be-released study of immunization surveys has confirmed that autism fears have had a negative impact on immunization rates. The study also presents a few other interesting observations:
•More children of college-educated mothers were not vaccinated than children of non-college educated mothers, with noticeable spikes in 2003, 2004 and 2006.
•While the controversy centered on the MMR vaccination, the autism fear had an impact on other vaccinations, to include polio and the combination vaccine to prevent diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.

http://shotofprevention.com/tag/andrew-wakefield/
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/28/andrew-wakefield-mmr-vaccine

[Katman]

Andrew Wakefield is both revered and reviled. To a small group of parents, he’s a hero who won’t back down from his assertion that the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine can cause autism.

To most, however, he’s the man who authored a fraudulent study that has been refuted many times and was retracted by the journal that published it, a man whose views carry dangerous consequences for all of us. They will tell you that the former doctor—stripped of his license in 2010 by the U.K.’s General Medical Council for ethical violations and failure to disclose potentially competing financial interests—has derailed public confidence in vaccination programs that were safely eradicating serious and highly contagious diseases.




http://shotofprevention.com/tag/andrew-wakefield/




http://shotofprevention.com/tag/andrew-wakefield/
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/28/andrew-wakefield-mmr-vaccine

None of which changes the fact that very often peer-reviewed medical journals will say exactly what Big Pharma tells them to say.

[husaberg]

None of which changes the fact that very often peer-reviewed medical journals will say exactly what Big Pharma tells them to say.

what I posted was facts what you posted was a supposition based on what you believe
you can't refute what I posted so you try and change the subject.

So on the balance of the information and actual evidence did Andrew have a undisclosed agenda against the 3-in one shoot yes or no.
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

But Deer's investigation - nominated in February 2011 for two British Press Awards - discovered that, while Wakefield held himself out to be a dispassionate scientist, two years before the Lancet paper was published - and before any of the 12 children were even referred to the hospital - he had been hired to attack MMR by a lawyer, Richard Barr: a jobbing solicitor in the small eastern English town of King's Lynn, who hoped to raise a speculative class action lawsuit against drug companies which manufactured the triple shot.

Unlike expert witnesses, who give professional advice and opinions, Wakefield had negotiated an unprecedented contract with Barr, then aged 48, to conduct clinical and scientific research. The goal was to find evidence of what the two men claimed to be a "new syndrome", intended to be the centrepiece of (later failed) litigation on behalf of an eventual 1,600 British families, recruited through media stories. This publicly undisclosed role for Wakefield created the grossest conflict of interest, and the exposure of it by Deer, in February 2004, led to public uproar in Britain, the retraction of the Lancet report's conclusions section, and, from July 2007 to May 2010, the longest-ever professional misconduct hearing by the UK's General Medical Council (GMC).

PS what do you think your conspiracy website publications offer totally unbiased information devoid of any advertisers agendas and massages.
Maybe next time you are sick or injured you can shun all medical treatment and drugs.

[Katman]

what you posted was a supposition based on what you believe


Did you miss this bit.....

And yet, “All journals are bought—or at least cleverly used—by the pharmaceutical industry,” says Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal,

[Katman]

And that same former editor's opinion of the peer-review process.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/pre-publication-peer-review-process-entirely-misguided-warns-former-editor-of-the-british-medical-journal/5449164

[husaberg]

Did you miss this bit.....

And yet, “All journals are bought—or at least cleverly used—by the pharmaceutical industry,” says Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal,

Subjective did you miss that?
So how are you getting on refuting that Andrew Wakefield (the cause of all the controversy and mistrust) was actually brought and paid for to create all of this mistrust in the 3-n 1 vaccine in the firsty place.
Not only that he has profited geatly and continues to out of the pain on others.
not only did he falsify data he actually did so with the intent to promote a competitors product.
He then further attempted to feed of people by accepting money to testify that one product was a the cause of there childs problems when he was acutely aware it was not.
do you refute any of this occurred?

http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

[Katman]

do you refute any of this occurred?

Why would you imagine that I have the slightest interest in defending Andrew Wakefield?

[husaberg]

Why would you imagine that I have the slightest interest in defending Andrew Wakefield?


And the highly amusing part is that the likes of TheDemonLard will immediately accuse anyone who dares to question the vaccination process of simply wanting to see thousands of babies die.

That sort of argument goes way beyond fucking moronic.
Why do you think anyone questions vaccination, how much did it ever occur prior to Andrew Wakefield making up a whole lot of crap to suit his own agenda
But feel free to remain ignorant of that. Its like a way of life with your religion

[Katman]

I also think you'll find that instead of suggesting that children should never be vaccinated for measles, mumps or rubella, Andrew Wakefield preferred that they should be 3 separate vaccinations with 12 months between each one.

[husaberg]

I also think you'll find that instead of suggesting that children should never be vaccinated for measles, mumps or rubella, Andrew Wakefield preferred that they should be 3 separate vaccinations with 12 months between each one.

Of course he did? why was that?
lets see...... who was he secretly on the payroll for?

But Deer's investigation - nominated in February 2011 for two British Press Awards - discovered that, while Wakefield held himself out to be a dispassionate scientist, two years before the Lancet paper was published - and before any of the 12 children were even referred to the hospital - he had been hired to attack MMR by a lawyer, Richard Barr: a jobbing solicitor in the small eastern English town of King's Lynn, who hoped to raise a speculative class action lawsuit against drug companies which manufactured the triple shot.

Unlike expert witnesses, who give professional advice and opinions, Wakefield had negotiated an unprecedented contract with Barr, then aged 48, to conduct clinical and scientific research. The goal was to find evidence of what the two men claimed to be a "new syndrome", intended to be the centrepiece of (later failed) litigation on behalf of an eventual 1,600 British families, recruited through media stories. This publicly undisclosed role for Wakefield created the grossest conflict of interest, and the exposure of it by Deer, in February 2004, led to public uproar in Britain, the retraction of the Lancet report's conclusions section, and, from July 2007 to May 2010, the longest-ever professional misconduct hearing by the UK's General Medical Council (GMC).
For someone who quired why you would want to defend Andrew Wakefield you are certainly appear to be trying to.:innocent:
Why do you think he was thrown out of the medical profession?

unfortunately because of his greed instead of it onlty undermining one kind of vaccine it tapped into a whole conspiracy movement where ill founded illogical conspiracy theorists such as you took what information was falsely presented and managed to convince a whole lot of gullible people that all sorts of issues were caused by vaccinations.

[Katman]

lets see...... who was he secretly on the payroll for?

He was probably on the payroll of another pharmaceutical company who wanted to advance their own version of the vaccines.

[husaberg]

He was probably on the payroll of another pharmaceutical company who wanted to advance their own version of the vaccines.

Wow Einstein... did you miss the 5 or 6 occasions I have already posted that.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934226#post1130934226
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934211#post1130934211
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934206#post1130934206
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934204#post1130934204
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934182#post1130934182
but there's the rub he presented the false information not the drug company. he was meant to be an independent researcher that why he was thrown out of the medical profession and the research was removed it proves the system works.
WHat its also proves is no matter what is said afterwards people like you will still try and feed of it as if it was true.

[Katman]

Wow Einstein... did you miss the 5 or 6 occasions I have already posted that.


Well if that were indeed the case then it would actually be the rival pharmaceutical company that was directly responsible for the controversy that surrounds the whole vaccination process.

[husaberg]

Well if that were indeed the case then it would actually be the rival pharmaceutical company that was directly responsible for the controversy that surrounds the whole vaccination process.

There is no if about it.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934226#post1130934226
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934211#post1130934211
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934206#post1130934206
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934204#post1130934204
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934182#post1130934182

As it was not the pharmaceutical company that published the research. It was not was it the pharmaceutical company that made the claims it was Andrew Wakefield.
People listened and placed trust in to him as he was an independent researcher.
He certainly fooled you................

[Katman]

There is no if about it. As it was not the pharmaceutical company that published the research. It was not was it the pharmaceutical company that made the claims it was Andrew Wakefield
People listened and placed trust in to him as he was an independent researcher.

But if he was commissioned by a rival pharmaceutical company to produce a fraudulent study designed to discredit their competitor's product then it would be the rival company who was paying him off that would bear overall responsibility, wouldn't it?

[husaberg]

But if he was commissioned by a rival pharmaceutical company to produce a fraudulent study designed to discredit their competitor's product then it would be the rival company who was paying him off that would bear overall responsibility, wouldn't it?

Incorrect who produced the report, who didn't admit there was a conflict of interest.
Who falsified and misrepresented the data.
#the answer to all of these is ANDREW WAKEFIELD

[Katman]

Incorrect who produced the report, who didn't admit there was a conflict of interest.
Who falsified and misrepresented the data.
#the answer to all of these is ANDREW WAKEFIELD

But if he was instructed and paid by a rival pharmaceutical company to produce a fraudulent report then it would be the pharmaceutical company that was ultimately responsible.

It's not rocket surgery.

[husaberg]

But if he was instructed and paid by a rival pharmaceutical company to produce a fraudulent report then it would be the pharmaceutical company that was ultimately responsible.

It's not rocket surgery.

Yet more ifs and buts.......its all up to who completed the false report and covered up his conflicts of interest.
He's perfectly entitled to do research for whoever he chooses.
Unless you can prove a gun was held to his head he committed the false reports of his own volition and omitted and attempted to cover up his obvious conflict of interest.

[Katman]

Yet more ifs and buts.......its all up to who completed the false report and covered up his conflicts of interest.
He's perfectly entitled to do research for whoever he chooses.
Unless you can prove a gun was held to his head he committed the false reports of his own volition and omitted and attempted to cover up his obvious conflict of interest.

I understand that you've talked yourself into a corner that you can't talk your way out of but if the story is indeed as you suggest, then it would be just another indication of the level of corruption that is obviously so endemic in the pharmaceutical industry.

[husaberg]

I understand that you've talked yourself into a corner that you can't talk your way out of but if the story is indeed as you suggest, then it would be just another indication of the level of corruption that is obviously so endemic in the pharmaceutical industry.

There is no corner, it is pretty clear who presented the false data, then failed to declare a vested interest then tried to feed and prifit of it while declearing themselves to be a speaker of the truth being persecuted.
its only your conspiracy blindness that prevents you seeing that.

who produced the report, who didn't admit there was a conflict of interest.
Who falsified and misrepresented the data.
#the answer to all of these is ANDREW WAKEFIELD

[Katman]

I don't know how much simpler I can explain this. :facepalm:

If Andrew Wakefield was paid by a rival pharmaceutical company to produce a fraudulent report then his agenda was possibly nothing more than gaining wealth.

But if he was paid by a rival pharmaceutical company to produce a fraudulent report it would be the rival pharmaceutical company who's agenda it was to discredit the MMR vaccine.

(Then again, there's always the chance you could be wrong about him being on the payroll of a rival pharmaceutical company though).

[husaberg]

I don't know how much simpler I can explain this. :facepalm:

If Andrew Wakefield was paid by a rival pharmaceutical company to produce a fraudulent report then his agenda was possibly nothing more than gaining wealth.

And if he was paid by a rival pharmaceutical company to produce a fraudulent report it would be the rival pharmaceutical company who's agenda it was to discredit the MMR vaccine.

(Of course, there's always the chance you could be wrong about him being on the payroll of a rival pharmaceutical company though).

No it was proven he had already been previously employed and acted on behalf of an drug company
it was also proven he had benefited significantly by becoming part of a lawsuit against a different drug company.
the rest of what you are saying is again a supposition,,,,,, if if if if.......
No one here (other than you) has said he was paid to produce this report, or to fabricate any of this by a rival drug company.
if you have proof (that he did or was) feel free to present it, as I am sure a lot of people would like to see it.
What has been proven is that.
He never declared the conflict of being formally employed by a company that might profit from this independent report
Also that he had distorted data.
He had profited from this in public profile and in funding out of this fabricated data.
Also with these ethical breaches that he had undermined the publics confidence in vaccination programs and this had caused great needless pain misery and deaths.

[Katman]

No one here (other than you) has said he was paid to produce this report, or to fabricate any of this by a rival drug company.


You have a very short memory.


lets see...... who was he secretly on the payroll for?


He was probably on the payroll of another pharmaceutical company who wanted to advance their own version of the vaccines.


Wow Einstein... did you miss the 5 or 6 occasions I have already posted that.

[husaberg]

You have a very short memory.

You are a new kind of retarded Demonlord was right are you aware of what the word secretly refers too.

I will post what immediately followed what you had selectly quoted
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934234#post1130934234
This publicly undisclosed role for Wakefield created the grossest conflict of interest, and the exposure of it by Deer, in February 2004, led to public uproar in Britain, the retraction of the Lancet report's conclusions section, and, from July 2007 to May 2010, the longest-ever professional misconduct hearing by the UK's General Medical Council (GMC).

Under the Einstein quip yopu edited out this
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/173790-Cancer-and-the-drug-companies?p=1130934226#post1130934226

but there's the rub he presented the false information not the drug company. he was meant to be an independent researcher that why he was thrown out of the medical profession and the research was removed it proves the system works.
WHat its also proves is no matter what is said afterwards people like you will still try and feed of it as if it was true.

Did he declare any of this the answer is no. that's where his proven ethical breach was.You are too busy trying to prove it was all BIG Brothers fault that you can't see reality

[Katman]

You are a new kind of retarded Demonlord was right are you aware of what the word refers to and secretly.
Did he declare any of this the answere is no. that's where his proven ethical breach was.You are too busy trying to prove it was all BIG Brothers fault that you can't see reality

Dude, you're becoming flustered.

Take a few deep breaths to compose yourself and then try typing something coherent.

[husaberg]

Dude, you're becoming flustered.

Take a few deep breaths to compose yourself and then try typing something coherent.

If I was the one flustered why is it you always throwing the fucking cunts and fuck you wanker Rep comments, They don't sound like a guy who is winning more like a sore sad pathetic troll conspiracy theorist loser.:laugh:


Fuck off you retarded cunt.

Fuck off shitforbrains.

Fuck you're a moron.

Fuck off shitforbrains.

What a fucking imbecile.

What a fucking moron.

Fuck off shit-for-brains.

I think I'd rather be thought of as a narcissist than a fucking retard.

Sounds like Hitler was pretty much right all along.

You just keep getting dumber and fucking dumber.

Don't put words in my mouth cuntface.

You truly are a raving irrational fuckwit.

Comprehension's not your strong point, is it?

Your 7 year old probably has more intelligence than you.

[Katman]

If I was the one flustered why is it you always throwing the fucking cunts and fuck you wanker Rep comments, They don't sound like a guy who is winning more like a sore sad pathetic troll conspiracy theorist loser.

I fear that snippet of extreme ironing may well finish Akzle off.

[husaberg]

I fear that snippet of extreme ironing may well finish Akzle off.

Is that better than the way he normally finishes off in you ass then?

[Madness]

There's only a fortnight's worth there. What a fucking amateur.

[RDJ]

I shall simply observe that anybody who thinks the majority of health care professionals, cure researchers, and therapeutic drug scientists, are out to mislead you, defraud you, and consign you to an early and avoidable death, are very very sad people indeed.

[Katman]

I shall simply observe that anybody who thinks the majority of health care professionals, cure researchers, and therapeutic drug scientists, are out to mislead you, defraud you, and consign you to an early and avoidable death, are very very sad people indeed.

Unfortunately those people aren't the ones who get to dictate the pharmaceutical industry's agenda.

[husaberg]

http://brightcove.vo.llnwd.net/e1/pd/4221396001/4221396001_3742154956001_gary-busey.jpghttp://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/a2981ace35.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

And the highly amusing part is that the likes of TheDemonLard will immediately accuse anyone who dares to question the vaccination process of simply wanting to see thousands of babies die.

That sort of argument goes way beyond fucking moronic.

Wrong - I'm saying that anyone who can look at the Historical and current success of Vaccination and say that Vaccination is wrong/bad/evil is a fuckwit who should fuck off die lest their stupidity cause the preventable Deaths of Children.

As I said earlier - if you are so worried about 'Big Pharma' feel free to Fuck off to Africa (I hear Sierra Leone is nice this time of year...), Far from the reaches of 'Big Pharma'

When you catch a preventable disease and die in Agony in a 3rd world hospital (can't trust Big Pharma...), the rest of us will live on.

If you aren't willing to do that, then me thinks you are a Massive Hypocrite.

[Katman]

Wrong - I'm saying that anyone who can look at the Historical and current success of Vaccination and say that Vaccination is wrong/bad/evil is a fuckwit who should fuck off die lest their stupidity cause the preventable Deaths of Children.

As I said earlier - if you are so worried about 'Big Pharma' feel free to Fuck off to Africa (I hear Sierra Leone is nice this time of year...), Far from the reaches of 'Big Pharma'

When you catch a preventable disease and die in Agony in a 3rd world hospital (can't trust Big Pharma...), the rest of us will live on.

If you aren't willing to do that, then me thinks you are a Massive Hypocrite.

There's that irrationality again.

[TheDemonLord]

There's that irrationality again.

It really isn't - we have gone from a 50% infant mortality rate to a fraction of a percentage in Infant Mortality - almost entirely thanks to Vaccines.

Small Pox is no longer the leading killer of the Human Species (it killed more people in the 20th Century than all the Wars Combined)

So please tell me again how Vaccines don't work?

And hell I'll give you a hand - Most Pharmaceutical companies are probably run by assholes who will try anything to make extra Profit - Still doesn't change the fact that Vaccines work and prevent Mainly children and Ederly dieing from preventable diseases. If you really don't believe me - look at the Infant Mortality rates (and look at WHAT kills them) in the west vs places where Vaccines aren't administered.

[husaberg]

It really isn't - we have gone from a 50% infant mortality rate to a fraction of a percentage in Infant Mortality - almost entirely thanks to Vaccines.

Small Pox is no longer the leading killer of the Human Species (it killed more people in the 20th Century than all the Wars Combined)

So please tell me again how Vaccines don't work?

And hell I'll give you a hand - Most Pharmaceutical companies are probably run by assholes who will try anything to make extra Profit - Still doesn't change the fact that Vaccines work and prevent Mainly children and Ederly dieing from preventable diseases. If you really don't believe me - look at the Infant Mortality rates (and look at WHAT kills them) in the west vs places where Vaccines aren't administered.

post that same exact speil on a conspiracy site add some crap about if you don't believe me you are a sheep and thrown in some blame on the us and jews he will lap it up.
but only if you totally reverse everything as what you have said as its logical and can be backed up by easily proven data that kind of stuff doesn't fly in the conspiracy world.

[Katman]

So please tell me again how Vaccines don't work?


And once again I'll point out that I have never said all vaccines are bad/evil or that they don't work.

What I do believe is that if there are significant risks associated with a vaccine, that information should be freely available.

(And that people shouldn't be pilloried if they actively go searching for information that is being withheld).

[TheDemonLord]

What I do believe is that if there are significant risks associated with a vaccine, that information should be freely available.

(And that people shouldn't be pilloried if they actively go searching for information that is being withheld).

What you Believe is not backed up by ANY reputable Scientific Evidence.

The Information IS freely available.

and the MMR Autism Hoax has been debunked more times than you have posted Shitty Conspiracy Youtube Videos/Conspiracy links.

So I'll ask - what are the so-called Significant risks?

[Katman]

What you Believe is not backed up by ANY reputable Scientific Evidence.

The Information IS freely available.

and the MMR Autism Hoax has been debunked more times than you have posted Shitty Conspiracy Youtube Videos/Conspiracy links.

So I'll ask - what are the so-called Significant risks?

You haven't read through any of the links posted over the last few pages, have you?

[TheDemonLord]

You haven't read through any of the links posted over the last few pages, have you?

Your track record of posting stuff of merit/reputable is almost 100% Negative.

But I asked YOU what is the so-called Significant Risks?

However you have already stated that this is a Belief of yours - and as we know, Beliefs aren't backed up by reason or Evidence.

[bogan]

Your track record of posting stuff of merit/reputable is almost 100% Negative.

Now here's something meritable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmlAYnFF_s8 The commentator is a bit meh. But the content is pretty good.

Those amp figures mean electric bikes may be able to run on explosions too!

[TheDemonLord]

Now here's something meritable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmlAYnFF_s8 The commentator is a bit meh. But the content is pretty good.

Those amp figures mean electric bikes may be able to run on explosions too!

I'm a bit of a Thunderf00t Fan (so already seen it).....

He is a pretty boss level UT player as well....

[husaberg]

Your track record of posting stuff of merit/reputable is almost 100% Negative.

But I asked YOU what is the so-called Significant Risks?

However you have already stated that this is a Belief of yours - and as we know, Beliefs aren't backed up by reason or Evidence.

But he does defend them with extreme religious fervour..........
I wonder if he has considered becoming a suicide bomber.........
318475
That might be why he is obsessed with getting blown with guys

[Katman]

I wonder if Merck decided to cease production of the three separate vaccines in favour of the 3 in 1 shot simply because it increased their profits.

[husaberg]

I wonder if Merck decided to cease production of the three separate vaccines in favour of the 3 in 1 shot simply because it increased their profits.

Or maybe there was no market for them as the conspiracy theorists market is not huge.


The official word from Merck is that they need to devote all of the manufacturing capabilities to the full MMR and Chickenpox. They also state that the demand for the separate vaccines is so low that it doesn’t justify its production. One news story stated that the separate components only make up about 2% of the total MMR demand.

Pretty sure there is more than one vaccine company in the world if the market was large enough to cater for conspiracy theorists and other loopies another company will fill the gap.

[Katman]

Or maybe there was no market for them as the conspiracy theorists market is not huge.

And a decrease in the demand for a commodity can easily be achieved by a change in marketing strategy.

[husaberg]

And a decrease in the market for a commodity can easily be achieved by a change in marketing strategy.

Only specialist vaccines are not a commodity at all
Also if they were a drop in production capacity the the real world would equal an increase in the price for said commodity.
this is until other suppliers see there is demand and made up the production shortfall.
That how commodities work, they are a primary producer product, where the market price fluctuates for due to the laws of supply and demand.

With that one post above you have shown yourself to have no understanding at all. Maybe you should do such actual research, because even yokel would be embarrassed over that post.

[Katman]

With that one post above you have shown yourself to have no understanding at all. Maybe you should do such actual research, because even yokel would be embarrassed over that post.

If a company wanted to supercede a product with a new version they could easily bring about a downturn in demand for the original product simply by changing their marketing strategy.

Once again, it's not rocket surgery - it's simply Market Manipulation 101.

[husaberg]

If a company wanted to supersede a product with a new version they could easily bring about a downturn in demand for the original product simply by changing their marketing strategy.

Once again, it's not rocket surgery.

But this is a company that exited a part of what you incorrectly deemed to be a "Commodity market" Thus the demand (if it actually existed, which it clearly does not) would be made up by all the other commodity producers.
Lets just say you are definitely not a doctor or a rocket scientist for not being able to figure it out.

Here is a hint, it clearly isn't a commodity product and there clearly isn't clearly a huge demand.....
Nor is it a controlled market. Its a free market with very strong competition.
If there was actual real demand and if it was profitable, it would be produced by another party that could make huge profits from what would appear to be a captive market.

[Katman]

Lol, that reason you've given for editing your post has to be the greatest display of ironing ever seen.

:facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

I wonder if Merck decided to cease production of the three separate vaccines in favour of the 3 in 1 shot simply because it increased their profits.

And your point is?

In order for you to have a point - you have to prove that the 3 in 1 shot has an actual negative side effect that the individual vaccines don't.

[Katman]

And your point is?

In order for you to have a point - you have to prove that the 3 in 1 shot has an actual negative side effect that the individual vaccines don't.

Well it's not an uncommon belief that there would probably be less risk involved by introducing three pathogens into your child's body spread out over three years rather than all at once.

If Merck decided to combine them into one shot simply because it increased their profits it would just be another indicator of the moral corruption endemic in the pharmaceutical industry.

[husaberg]

Lol, that reason you've given for editing your post has to be the greatest display of ironing ever seen.

:facepalm:

Only thing is, I never changed my post you did.

[Katman]

Only thing is, I never changed my post you did.

That's the funny thing though, most of the people here probably miss half the shit that comes out of your gob because they don't think to keep going back and seeing how your posts can suddenly morph from two sentences into a five paragraph, eight copy and pastes, and twelve multiquotes post.

[husaberg]

Well it's not an uncommon belief that there would probably be less risk involved by introducing three pathogens into your child's body spread out over three years rather than all at once.

If Merck decided to combine them into one shot simply because it increased their profits it would just be another indicator of the moral corruption endemic in the pharmaceutical industry.

Only thing is, selling three separate vaccines rather than one, would likely be better for business profitability.:laugh:
You might find there is a lot more demand for a combined vaccines, which is why they produce them, as it is infinitely more convenient for end user and people who administer and run the vaccination programmes.
But don't let yourself get bogged down with logic.
Also Merck along with any other private company is entitled to do what ever they wish in regards to their packaging or product mix, even if its contrary to your views.

[TheDemonLord]

Well it's not an uncommon belief that there would probably be less risk involved by introducing three pathogens into your child's body spread out over three years rather than all at once.

Belief and Probably. These are the words of someone arguing on FAITH, Not Scientific Evidence. Again, you have no actual evidence for your position.


If Merck decided to combine them into one shot simply because it increased their profits it would just be another indicator of the moral corruption endemic in the pharmaceutical industry.

If there was an actual downside, then sure, you could claim that. If it was a case where there was a measurable increase in risk, but this was justified by the increase profits being less then the anticipated cost in any negative consequences (the old automotive recall paradox) then sure, you could also claim that.

but there isn't, so claiming Moral Corruption when it is just good business is a bunch of hot air.

[Katman]

but there isn't.....

Only because you don't believe there is.

[husaberg]

That's the funny thing though, most of the people here probably miss half the shit that comes out of your gob because they don't think to keep going back and seeing how your posts can suddenly morph from two sentences into a five paragraph, eight copy and pastes, and twelve multiquotes post.

I am pretty sure most people on KB know what your agenda is. They also know pretty much all of it is illogical twaddle, gleaned from conspiracy sites with no basis in facts.
Adding links and quotes that highlight your hypocrisy, normally requires an edit, unless you expect someone to have three of four tabs open at all times.
What you do though, is change whole themes of posts and generally ignore questions, mainly because you are an imbecilic troll.


Only because you don't believe there is.
More religious faith rhetoric.............

[TheDemonLord]

Only because you don't believe there is.

You are the one saying you Believe something and it's Probably true...

You wouldn't need to Believe if you had Evidence.

If you had Evidence it wouldn't probably be true.

I believe nothing and review the evidence.

Have you got any evidence that the 3 separate vaccines have less harmful side effects then the 1 Vaccine?

[Katman]

And in the same way that the war industry seeks to protect it's obscene profits through the continual pursuit of war, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the pharmaceutical industry seeks to protect it's obscene profits by maintaining the population at a certain level of unwellness/addiction.

If everyone suddenly became healthy it wouldn't bode well for the prescription drug pushers, would it?

[husaberg]

You are the one saying you Believe something and it's Probably true...

You wouldn't need to Believe if you had Evidence.

If you had Evidence it wouldn't probably be true.

I believe nothing and review the evidence.

Have you got any evidence that the 3 separate vaccines have less harmful side effects then the 1 Vaccine?

Watch him change the subject and go off on a new tangent.....

[TheDemonLord]

And in the same way that the war industry seeks to protect it's obscene profits through the continual pursuit of war, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the pharmaceutical industry seeks to protect it's obscene profits by maintaining the population at a certain level of unwellness/addiction.

If everyone suddenly became healthy it wouldn't bode well for the prescription drug pushers, would it?

Fortunately for the Pharmaceutical companies - we do a brilliant job of catching diseases all on our own.

And if what you were to say is true - in places without Big Pharma - like Africa, Disease would be virtually unknown... Oh wait....

[Katman]

And if what you were to say is true - in places without Big Pharma - like Africa, Disease would be virtually unknown... Oh wait....

There's probably no money to be made there.

[bogan]

There's probably no money to be made there.

Ah, your uni class was 'missing the point 101' then?

[Katman]

Ah, your uni class was 'missing the point 101' then?

Not at all.

TheDemonLard simply showed his lack of comprehension again.

I never said the pharmaceutical industry has never made any gains in improving our health - I said it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there is a deliberate strategy of maintaining a certain level of unwellness/addiction.

As in "we'll get you better but only to the point where you have to rely on a cocktail of our drugs for the rest of your life".

[bogan]

Not at all.

TheDemonLard simply showed his lack of comprehension again.

I never said the pharmaceutical industry has never made any gains in improving our health - I said it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there is a deliberate strategy of maintaining a certain level of unwellness/addiction.

As in "we'll get you better but only to the point where you have to rely on a cocktail of our drugs for the rest of your life".

You must have got an A in that class.

[TheDemonLord]

Not at all.

TheDemonLard simply showed his lack of comprehension again.

I never said the pharmaceutical industry has never made any gains in improving our health - I said it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there is a deliberate strategy of maintaining a certain level of unwellness/addiction.

As in "we'll get you better but only to the point where you have to rely on a cocktail of our drugs for the rest of your life".

You got any evidence for that pretty strong claim?

No?

Didn't think so.

It's not that I lack comprehension - it is just you can't see passed your Conspiracy Specs.

The case in Africa shows that without any intervention by Big Pharma, Humans will quite happily catch a multitude of Virulent and deadly diseases.

Showing that Big Pharma doesn't need to have such a strategy because humans, in their natural states (highly social group Mammal, who like to live in relatively close proximity to one another and come into contact with other members of the species on frequent occasions) do all the hard work for them.


Next I'll be awaiting Katman's theory on how the Hospice Care/Private Rest home system in NZ is making people become Old so they need assistance, or that Funeral directors are making people die to increase profits.

(hint - that is the EXACT same argument you are using, and it is equally retarded)

[Katman]

<img src="http://www.davidsons-vs.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/o/p/optiline_sheep_drencher_1.jpg"/>

[awa355]

Just to throw something slightly different into the mix, Why don't animals get the huge array of illnesses that humans do?. You never learn of domestic or feral animals getting the volume of disease's, (cancer's, respiratory, skin, joint, muscle, nerve ailments, mental conditions) that afflict people.

Maybe it's because they simply live within their natural world. :msn-wink: Did people ever give a toss about kennel cough or cat flu, before the vets came along?.

[Katman]

Just to throw something slightly different into the mix, Why don't animals get the huge array of illnesses that humans do?. You never learn of domestic or feral animals getting the volume of disease's, (cancer's, respiratory, skin, joint, muscle, nerve ailments, mental conditions) that afflict people.

For a start......

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/five-unintended-consequences-antibiotic-overuse-031114#2

http://consumersunion.org/news/the-overuse-of-antibiotics-in-food-animals-threatens-public-health-2/

[Katman]

And the pharmaceutical industry knows that as we build up a greater resistance to the antibiotics that they produce, we'll be reliant on them developing new antibiotics.

Sounds like a perfect money making system.

[rambaldi]

And the pharmaceutical industry knows that as we build up a greater resistance to the antibiotics that they produce, we'll be reliant on them developing new antibiotics.

Sounds like a perfect money making system.

Except those antibiotics take more and more money to develop and they don't make an awful lot on them. A few companies have moved out of the area due to the increase in costs. We should be making as careful use of the ones we have as we can.

[husaberg]

Just to throw something slightly different into the mix, Why don't animals get the huge array of illnesses that humans do?. You never learn of domestic or feral animals getting the volume of disease's, (cancer's, respiratory, skin, joint, muscle, nerve ailments, mental conditions) that afflict people.

Maybe it's because they simply live within their natural world. :msn-wink: Did people ever give a toss about kennel cough or cat flu, before the vets came along?.

Animals get all of those diseases.
If you had either watched a unvaccinated yet formally incredibly healthy looking sheep die of a clostridial infection such as tetanus, pulp kidney Black leg etc. The agony in which they go through prior to death with there convulsions and muscle spasms , I sincerely doubt anyone would avoid vaccinating their child.
(Other than Katman who of course has no children or any logic when it comes to his conspiracy religion)
of course its not such a widespread problem because of the 5 and 7 in one vbacines that are used by professional farmers.
It is extremely widespread still on lifestyle and hobby farmers due to a lack of education and ignorance.

[Katman]

Except those antibiotics take more and more money to develop and they don't make an awful lot on them. A few companies have moved out of the area due to the increase in costs. We should be making as careful use of the ones we have as we can.

That's ok - they'll just make them really, really expensive.

[Katman]

Animals get all of those diseases.
If you had either watched a unvaccinated yet formally incredibly healthy looking sheep die of a clostridial infection such as tetanus, pulp kidney Black leg etc. The agony in which they go through prior to death with there convulsions and muscle spasms , I sincerely doubt anyone would avoid vaccinating their child.
(Other than Katman who of course has no children or any logic when it comes to his conspiracy religion)

Have you ever wondered why there is considerably less animal disease on organic farms?

[PrincessBandit]

If everyone suddenly became healthy it wouldn't bode well for the prescription drug pushers, would it?

or the diet companies

[husaberg]

Have you ever wondered why there is considerably less animal disease on organic farms?

Well from my actual practical experience based on 10 years working previously for MAF that is patently untrue. So no.
Organic farms commonly use vaccinations (by the way) were you unaware of that? They are also obligated to provide proper care which often necessitates the use of antibiotics.
The use of modern medicine is a legal requirement to prevent unnecessary pain and suffering as well as public health.
Don't let the facts get in the way though ,carry on.............I am sure you having a pet dog and a long list of conspiracy theories overrides all other knowledge.

[Ocean1]

Just to throw something slightly different into the mix, Why don't animals get the huge array of illnesses that humans do?. You never learn of domestic or feral animals getting the volume of disease's, (cancer's, respiratory, skin, joint, muscle, nerve ailments, mental conditions) that afflict people.

Maybe it's because they simply live within their natural world. :msn-wink: Did people ever give a toss about kennel cough or cat flu, before the vets came along?.

Probably. They were as human as we are. They just couldn't do anything about it.

Wild animals also get a huge array of illnesses. Like us they can live with them in pain or die as a result of them. Unlike us or our pets they don't have the choice of living without them.

The pathogens are "natural" too, so the "natural healthy lifestyle" hippy thing is bullshit after all. As several people have said; go walk through an old graveyard and have a read of how much suffering and shortened lives modern drugs cure.

Then, if you choose, you can decline to use them. While fucking off somewhere you're not a risk to those better educated.

[Katman]

Don't let the facts get in the way though carry on.............

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/11320/1/Organic-Farming-vs-Conventional-Farming.html

[TheDemonLord]

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/11320/1/Organic-Farming-vs-Conventional-Farming.html

I loved how that Article was all Opinion and no facts/data/science/evidence.

[Katman]

I loved how that Article was all Opinion and no facts/data/science/evidence.

It was a general outline of the differences between organic and conventional farming.

If you want facts/data/science/evidence feel free to go looking for yourself.

[TheDemonLord]

It was a general outline of the differences between organic and conventional farming.

If you want facts/data/science/evidence feel free to go looking for yourself.

I'm not the one making the claim that Organic Farming is free from diseases and better for you, you are.

YOU provide the evidence to back your shit up.

[Katman]

I'm not the one making the claim that Organic Farming is free from diseases and better for you, you are.

I didn't say free from disease, did I?

I suppose you're another one who would happily drink a glass of Round-up, are you?

[husaberg]

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/11320/1/Organic-Farming-vs-Conventional-Farming.html

lets start the use of hormones and growth promotants is banned in NZ for dairy farming. BST is in common use in a few countries but has never been used in NZ
The use of antibiotics in dairy farming is strictly controlled and are administered under direct veteran supervision.
Your link which also doesn't mention vaccinations did you wonder why that was.
You are also confusing a marketing that organic animals and products are more healthy from actual reality.
The use of antibiotics for the treatment of infections such as mastitis is to alleviate pain and suffering (it is not the organic farmers first choice) and requires the isolation of the animal generally for the whole season.
in regards to the vaccinations
http://saferfarms.org.nz/guides/prevention-and-control-of-leptospirosis/
Note: Organic farmers can be assured that properly administered vaccination against leptospirosis will not affect their official certification (15).
Thus I repeat you are wrong

but wait there is more

Note: Organic regulations require that if any animal needs to be treated with antibiotics after the start of the third year of conversion on welfare grounds, it must be treated. It then must be quarantined during recovery before it is removed from the system.
http://www.organicpastoral.co.nz/Resources/Animal+Health/Mastitis.html

Livestock
For livestock like these healthy cows vaccines play an important part in animal health since antibiotic therapy is prohibited in organic farming
Raising livestock and poultry, for meat, dairy and eggs, is another traditional farming activity that complements growing. Organic farms attempt to provide animals with natural living conditions and feed. Organic certification verifies that livestock are raised according to the USDA organic regulations throughout their lives.[64] These regulations include the requirement that all animal feed must be certified organic.

Organic livestock may be, and must be, treated with medicine when they are sick, but drugs cannot be used to promote growth, their feed must be organic, and they must be pastured.[65]:19ff[66]

Also, horses and cattle were once a basic farm feature that provided labor, for hauling and plowing, fertility, through recycling of manure, and fuel, in the form of food for farmers and other animals. While today, small growing operations often do not include livestock, domesticated animals are a desirable part of the organic farming equation, especially for true sustainability, the ability of a farm to function as a self-renewing unit.


http://articles.extension.org/pages/70026/poultry-vaccines-for-use-on-organic-farms

My favourite
http://zweberfarms.com/organic-animals-arent-vaccinated-organic-myth-part-3/

That one proves what a total idiot you are

[Akzle]

That's the funny thing though, most of the people here probably miss half the shit that comes out of your gob because they //*

*ignore you because you're a pathetic dropkick gobshyte

[husaberg]

I didn't say free from disease, did I?

I suppose you're another one who would happily drink a glass of Round-up, are you?
Looks a lot like someone's backtracking.
As far a herbicides go you picked one of the safest to drink and use but I sincerely doubt you know any others (without googling) than 245T anyway.
Glyphosate is usually mixed with a surfactant/penerant such as pulse (its a lot like a dishwashing liquid) the herbicide is far safer than the surfactant.

But don't worry if they weren't able to use glyphosate they would have to use shit loads of extra chemical fertilisers and they would not be able to use a non till system which would result in increased loss of topsoil and erosion.

[Katman]

Looks a lot like someone's backtracking.


Not at all.

I'm simply pointing out that I never said free from disease.

(It would help if half you fucks could read English).

[husaberg]

*ignore you because you're a pathetic dropkick gobshyte

That's odd especially as you and Katman are the most ignored people on KB and have been for a number of years.
That's a fact, unless JAW has finally managed to unseat you both yet as the publicly voted most irrelevant persona on KB.
That's a fact, Its also funny that you show up now tell us all why was it you were banded from the Lifestyle block forum.:lol:


Not at all.

I'm simply pointing out that I never said free from disease.

(It would help if half you fucks could read English).

Really did you read the English were NZ organic farms are required to use modern medicines and use vaccinations.
You know that exact opposite to what you said was true......:laugh:

[Katman]

Really did you read the English were NZ organic farms are required to use modern medicines and use vaccinations.
You know that exact opposite to what you said was true......:laugh:

As you posted earlier there are approved vaccinations that won't affect an organic farm's certification but I'm not aware of any actual 'requirement' for the farm to use them.

And if they are used the animal is placed in quarantine.

[husaberg]

As you posted earlier there are approved vaccinations that won't affect an organic farm's certification but I'm not aware of any actual 'requirement' for the farm to use them.

And if they are used the animal is placed in quarantine.

Organic livestock may be, and must be, treated with medicine when they are sick.

You might want to look into the codes of animal welfare in regards to pain and suffering before you look like even more of a cretin.(too late)
You might also want to look into the requirements in regards to providing a safe work place in regards to Leptospirosis vacinations.
Then go to the individual Dairy companies codes of practice in regards to animal welfare and OSH in regards to both Lepto and animal welfare.

# note this is how little you know
The placing of treated animals in quarantine is actually a requirement for all farms with regards to withholding times for milk or meat regardless of if they are organic or not, with regards to the treatment of animals with antibiotics.

[Katman]

Organic livestock may be, and must be, treated with medicine when they are sick.

You might want to look into the codes of animal welfare in regards to pain and suffering before you look like even more of a cretin.(too late)
You might also want to look into the requirements in regards to providing a safe work place in regards to Leptosoris vacinations.
Then go to the individual Dairy companies codes of practice in regards to animal welfare and OSH in regards to both Lepto and animal welfare.

So there's no actual 'requirement' for animals on an organic farm to be vaccinated then.

I thought not.

[husaberg]

So there's no actual 'requirement' for animals on an organic farm to be vaccinated then.

I thought not.
You might want to look into the codes of animal welfare in regards to pain and suffering before you look like even more of a cretin.(too late)
You don't think at all that all, go look at the codes as I instructed, then came back and post the same klaptrap.


Well from my actual practical experience based on 10 years working previously for MAF that is patently untrue. So no.
Organic farms commonly use vaccinations (by the way) were you unaware of that? They are also obligated to provide proper care which often necessitates the use of antibiotics.The use of modern medicine is a legal requirement to prevent unnecessary pain and suffering as well as public health.
Don't let the facts get in the way though ,carry on.............I am sure you having a pet dog and a long list of conspiracy theories overrides all other knowledge.

[J.A.W.]

That's odd especially as you and Katman are the most ignored people on KB and have been for a number of years.
That's a fact, unless JAW has finally managed to unseat you both yet as the publicly voted most irrelevant persona on KB.

& its too funny/ironic that those who put people on 'ignore' - can't help wanking on about it.. & are more likely to write a bunch of crap that warrants a severe edit..

Cancer research/treatment is a big bucks 'industry' & just like needless pathology tests, is fairly notorious for being costly/wasteful/ineffective..

[Katman]

You might want to look into the codes of animal welfare in regards to pain and suffering before you look like even more of a cretin.

I'm well aware of the codes of animal welfare and anyone who knows me would know that I take those codes very seriously.

However, with regards to the vaccination issue, although this link is for Australian organic farming, I'm sure New Zealand's management practices are very similar.

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/213601/Use-of-vaccinations-in-organic-farming.pdf

So it would appear that there are very strict rules governing when a farmer is actually allowed to vaccinate their organic stock - as opposed to an actual 'requirement' for them to do so.

[husaberg]

I'm well aware of the codes of animal welfare and anyone who knows me would know that I would take those codes very seriously.

However, with regards to the vaccination issue, although this link is for Australian organic farming, I'm sure New Zealand's management practices are very similar.

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/213601/Use-of-vaccinations-in-organic-farming.pdf

So it would appear that there are very strict rules governing when a farmer is actually allowed to vaccinate their organic stock.

Vaccination is not an issue for anyone but you. If you want to be taken seriously don't assume you know more about subject of commercial farming than people with actual training and practical experience.
For the sole reason that you read a few conspiracy sites and have an interest in dogs and cat welfare


Well from my actual practical experience based on 10 years working previously for MAF that is patently untrue. So no.
Organic farms commonly use vaccinations (by the way) were you unaware of that? They are also obligated to provide proper care which often necessitates the use of antibiotics.
The use of modern medicine is a legal requirement to prevent unnecessary pain and suffering as well as public health.
Don't let the facts get in the way though ,carry on.............I am sure you having a pet dog and a long list of conspiracy theories overrides all other knowledge.



As I have repeatedly said, it is common place for organic farmer to vaccinate their stock, you denied this, yet it is a fact.
You actually posted a link trying to make out it was not done.
As I have said, go to the Dairy companies code of conduct and rules of supply, regarding lepto vaccinations
It is also a legal requirement to medicate stock, to alleviate unnecessary pain and suffering. This Is a fact.
Try and twist and turn all you want. It isn't going to make what you wrongly thought and assumed to be correct.
Your continued inability to actually grasp the concept, only goes to further prove how much of what you believe is right is solely based on the faith in your conspiracy religion, rather than actual practical facts.

[Katman]

Vaccination is not an issue for anyone but you. If you want to be taken seriously don't assume you know more about subject of commercial farming than people with actual training and practical experience.
For the sole reason that you read a few conspiracy sites and have an interest in dogs and cat welfare
As I have repeatedly said it is common place for organic farmer to vaccinate their stock you, denied this it is a fact.
You actually posted a link trying to make out it was not done.
As I have said go to the Dairy companies code of conduct and rules of supply regarding lepto vaccinations
It is also a legal requirement to medicate stock to alleviate unnecessary pain and suffering this Is a fact.
Try and twist and turn all you want. It isn't going to make what you wrongly thought and assumed to be correct.
Your continued inability to actually grasp the concept only goes to further prove how much what you believe is right is solely based on the faith in your conspiracy religion rather than actual practical facts.

http://www.unique.ac.nz/courses/adult/

[husaberg]

http://www.unique.ac.nz/courses/adult/

For you, I guess that beats trying to argue on based on facts, because you clearly lost that argument pages ago.............:yes:
Its just you were too yokel to ever realise it.
318503318504318505318506318507

[Katman]

For you, I guess that beats trying to argue on based on facts, because you clearly lost that argument pages ago.............

Dude, it goes way beyond grammar.

It's your inability to read the actual words in front of you and comprehend their actual meaning.

Instead your brain's spasms instruct you to make shit up that was never said.

The Lardy Demon does the same.

[husaberg]

Dude, it goes way beyond grammar.

It's your inability to read the actual words in front of you and comprehend their actual meaning.

Instead your brain's spasms instruct you to make shit up that was never said.

The Lardy Demon does the same.



Animals get all of those diseases.
If you had either watched a unvaccinated yet formally incredibly healthy looking sheep die of a clostridial infection such as tetanus, pulp kidney Black leg etc. The agony in which they go through prior to death with there convulsions and muscle spasms , I sincerely doubt anyone would avoid vaccinating their child.
(Other than Katman who of course has no children or any logic when it comes to his conspiracy religion)
of course its not such a widespread problem because of the 5 and 7 in one vbacines that are used by professional farmers.
It is extremely widespread still on lifestyle and hobby farmers due to a lack of education and ignorance.


Have you ever wondered why there is considerably less animal disease on organic farms?



Well from my actual practical experience based on 10 years working previously for MAF that is patently untrue. So no.
Organic farms commonly use vaccinations (by the way) were you unaware of that? They are also obligated to provide proper care which often necessitates the use of antibiotics.The use of modern medicine is a legal requirement to prevent unnecessary pain and suffering as well as public health.
Don't let the facts get in the way though ,carry on.............I am sure you having a pet dog and a long list of conspiracy theories overrides all other knowledge.


http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/11320/1/Organic-Farming-vs-Conventional-Farming.html



It was a general outline of the differences between organic and conventional farming.
If you want facts/data/science/evidence feel free to go looking for yourself.

Organic livestock may be, and must be, treated with medicine when they are sick.

You might want to look into the codes of animal welfare in regards to pain and suffering before you look like even more of a cretin.(too late)
You might also want to look into the requirements in regards to providing a safe work place in regards to Leptospirosis vacinations.
Then go to the individual Dairy companies codes of practice in regards to animal welfare and OSH in regards to both Lepto and animal welfare.

# note this is how little you know
The placing of treated animals in quarantine is actually a requirement for all farms with regards to withholding times for milk or meat regardless of if they are organic or not, with regards to the treatment of animals with antibiotics.



Vaccination is not an issue for anyone but you. If you want to be taken seriously don't assume you know more about subject of commercial farming than people with actual training and practical experience.
For the sole reason that you read a few conspiracy sites and have an interest in dogs and cat welfare

Well from my actual practical experience based on 10 years working previously for MAF that is patently untrue. So no.
Organic farms commonly use vaccinations (by the way) were you unaware of that? They are also obligated to provide proper care which often necessitates the use of antibiotics.
The use of modern medicine is a legal requirement to prevent unnecessary pain and suffering as well as public health.
Don't let the facts get in the way though ,carry on.............I am sure you having a pet dog and a long list of conspiracy theories overrides all other knowledge.
As I have repeatedly said, it is common place for organic farmer to vaccinate their stock, you denied this, yet it is a fact.
You actually posted a link trying to make out it was not done.
As I have said, go to the Dairy companies code of conduct and rules of supply, regarding lepto vaccinations
It is also a legal requirement to medicate stock, to alleviate unnecessary pain and suffering. This Is a fact.
Try and twist and turn all you want. It isn't going to make what you wrongly thought and assumed to be correct.
Your continued inability to actually grasp the concept, only goes to further prove how much of what you believe is right is solely based on the faith in your conspiracy religion, rather than actual practical facts.



318508318509318510318511

[bogan]

Dude, it goes way beyond grammar.

It's your inability to read the actual words in front of you and comprehend their actual meaning.

Instead your brain's spasms instruct you to make shit up that was never said.

The Lardy Demon does the same.

I feel left out. So I'll point out that the bit you quoted doesn't mention grammar at all, are you selectively addressing points and making shit up to cover up the fact you lost the argument pages ago?

Also, fucking get a better insulty name for demon, that shit's just embarrassing.

[Katman]

I feel left out. So I'll point out that the bit you quoted doesn't mention grammar at all, are you selectively addressing points and making shit up to cover up the fact you lost the argument pages ago?

It was in reference to the first attachment that accompanies the quoted post.

Then again, I probably shouldn't have expected you to manage to figure that out.

[husaberg]

I feel left out. So I'll point out that the bit you quoted doesn't mention grammar at all, are you selectively addressing points and making shit up to cover up the fact you lost the argument pages ago?

Also, fucking get a better insulty name for demon, that shit's just embarrassing.

He actually got that hot under the collar he forgot to change my user name on a post.

[bogan]

It was the in reference to the first attachment that accompanies the quoted post.

Then again, I probably shouldn't have expected you to manage to figure that out.

So what you're saying is you selected to not comprehend or address the bit you specifically quoted?

Which is what I just said, which is the point you missed. You are making a habit of this sort of thing.

[Katman]

So what you're saying is you selected to not comprehend or address the bit you specifically quoted?

Which is what I just said, which is the point you missed. You are making a habit of this sort of thing.

Dude, if you're an example of our university graduates, I fucking despair.

Join the stupid cunt queue.

[husaberg]

So what you're saying is you selected to not comprehend or address the bit you specifically quoted?

Which is what I just said, which is the point you missed. You are making a habit of this sort of thing.

Wait he will resort to calling you a cunt now.
Its Katman code for I lost the argument.

[bogan]

Dude, if you're an example of our university graduates, I fucking despair.

Join the stupid cunt queue.

That'd be back to having a tanty then.

[Katman]

Wait he will resort to calling you a cunt now.


Wow, did it take you 3 minutes to type that post.

[husaberg]

Wow, did it take you 3 minutes to type that post.

Shhh I was trying to find a post in this thread where you don't look like a stupid wanker, no luck so far..........

I found this though seems rather apt

When I said going full retard, I was mistaken.
You have managed surpass Full retard and are currently inhabiting a previously undiscovered level of Retardation.
In honor of this - It shall now be known as "Going full Katman"
318512318513318514

[Katman]

That'd be back to having a tanty then.

No, it's just back to utter contempt.

[Katman]

Anyway, I see what you tricksters are trying. (It started a few pages ago with the abstract attachments).

Let's keep this thread on topic or bogan will be off to the moderators.

[TheDemonLord]

Dude, it goes way beyond grammar.

It's your inability to read the actual words in front of you and comprehend their actual meaning.

Instead your brain's spasms instruct you to make shit up that was never said.

The Lardy Demon does the same.

Or Maybe its the fact that you don't have the ability to write coherent statements - Lets review:

Katman: Vaccines are bad cause Big Pharma M'kay.
Demon: Got any Evidence for that?
Katman: they changed 3 single vaccines into one - PROOF!
Demon: but there is no evidence of any additional Side Effects compared to the single ones.
Katman: Well its My Belief that it's probably bad
Demon: So no *Actual* proof then
Katman: Change Subject - Big Pharma only wants to make us well to a point, then keep us sick to ensure repeat Business
Demon: You got any proof for that? Also - look at places without Big Pharma - humans do a Perfect job of catching disease all by themselves
Katman: I didn't say Big Pharma doesn't help, but they try to make us sick.
Demon: You got any Proof yet? Nope - Also there are places in the world that are a perfect control group for your Theory - and funnily enough, they Catch Diseases just as easily
Katman: Change Subject again - Organic Farming is better - the animals don't get the same diseases humans do, therefore Big Pharma is evil
Other People: Actually Animals get the same diseases humans do, they also get Vaccinated against them too
Katman: BUT ORGANIC FARMING IS BETTERER - IT SAYS SO IN THIS LINK
Demon: That Link has zero factual content or links to studies, or statistics or expirment - its just opinion
Katman: IT SHOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2.
Demon: It shows jack shit - there is no Evidence.
Katman: I never said Organic farming was disease free (despite implying that Disease was less prevelant when compared to normal Farming)
Then Husaberg stepped in and pointed out more flaws in the ever expanding chasm of your stupidity.

And I stopped Caring.

I'll re-make my opening point - if you think Big Pharma is evil, Fuck off to Africa and Die from Ebola and leave the rest of us in peace.

[bogan]

No, it's just back to utter contempt.

Is that what you keep telling yourself? because contempt implies being better than the thing, and you consistently show that you aren't.


Anyway, I see what you tricksters are trying. (It started a few pages ago with the abstract attachments).

Let's keep this thread on topic or bogan will be off to the moderators.

Fuck you sound like how Ed always bangs on about red rep, play the game of go fuck yourself.

[Katman]

Or Maybe its the fact that you don't have the ability to write coherent statements - Lets review:

Katman: Vaccines are bad cause Big Pharma M'kay.
Demon: Got any Evidence for that?
Katman: they changed 3 single vaccines into one - PROOF!
Demon: but there is no evidence of any additional Side Effects compared to the single ones.
Katman: Well its My Belief that it's probably bad
Demon: So no *Actual* proof then
Katman: Change Subject - Big Pharma only wants to make us well to a point, then keep us sick to ensure repeat Business
Demon: You got any proof for that? Also - look at places without Big Pharma - humans do a Perfect job of catching disease all by themselves
Katman: I didn't say Big Pharma doesn't help, but they try to make us sick.
Demon: You got any Proof yet? Nope - Also there are places in the world that are a perfect control group for your Theory - and funnily enough, they Catch Diseases just as easily
Katman: Change Subject again - Organic Farming is better - the animals don't get the same diseases humans do, therefore Big Pharma is evil
Other People: Actually Animals get the same diseases humans do, they also get Vaccinated against them too
Katman: BUT ORGANIC FARMING IS BETTERER - IT SAYS SO IN THIS LINK
Demon: That Link has zero factual content or links to studies, or statistics or expirment - its just opinion
Katman: IT SHOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2.
Demon: It shows jack shit - there is no Evidence.
Katman: I never said Organic farming was disease free (despite implying that Disease was less prevelant when compared to normal Farming)
Then Husaberg stepped in and pointed out more flaws in the ever expanding chasm of your stupidity.

And I stopped Caring.

I'll re-make my opening point - if you think Big Pharma is evil, Fuck off to Africa and Die from Ebola and leave the rest of us in peace.

There you go again - inventing shit.

Join bogan and husaberk in the stupid cunt queue.

[Katman]

Is that what you keep telling yourself? because contempt implies being better than the thing, and you consistently show that you aren't.



Fuck you sound like how Ed always bangs on about red rep, play the game of go fuck yourself.

So that would be the tanty option then?

[husaberg]

There you go again - inventing shit.

Join bogan and husaberk in the stupid cunt queue.

318515318516

[bogan]

So that will be the tanty option then?

That's fairly lame, since I'm still making decent points you fail to address. In addition to it just being the exact same thing I posted to you.

And here I thought the pictures of irons were a low point...

[husaberg]

Or Maybe its the fact that you don't have the ability to write coherent statements - Lets review:

Katman: Vaccines are bad cause Big Pharma M'kay.
Demon: Got any Evidence for that?
Katman: they changed 3 single vaccines into one - PROOF!
Demon: but there is no evidence of any additional Side Effects compared to the single ones.
Katman: Well its My Belief that it's probably bad
Demon: So no *Actual* proof then
Katman: Change Subject - Big Pharma only wants to make us well to a point, then keep us sick to ensure repeat Business
Demon: You got any proof for that? Also - look at places without Big Pharma - humans do a Perfect job of catching disease all by themselves
Katman: I didn't say Big Pharma doesn't help, but they try to make us sick.
Demon: You got any Proof yet? Nope - Also there are places in the world that are a perfect control group for your Theory - and funnily enough, they Catch Diseases just as easily
Katman: Change Subject again - Organic Farming is better - the animals don't get the same diseases humans do, therefore Big Pharma is evil
Other People: Actually Animals get the same diseases humans do, they also get Vaccinated against them too
Katman: BUT ORGANIC FARMING IS BETTERER - IT SAYS SO IN THIS LINK
Demon: That Link has zero factual content or links to studies, or statistics or expirment - its just opinion
Katman: IT SHOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2.
Demon: It shows jack shit - there is no Evidence.
Katman: I never said Organic farming was disease free (despite implying that Disease was less prevelant when compared to normal Farming)
Then Husaberg stepped in and pointed out more flaws in the ever expanding chasm of your stupidity.

And I stopped Caring.

I'll re-make my opening point - if you think Big Pharma is evil, Fuck off to Africa and Die from Ebola and leave the rest of us in peace.

i'd prefer it if he got smallpox but its not a deal breaker....Great Post by the way.

[Katman]

i'd prefer it if he got smallpox.....

I'll let you know.

In the meantime, how about a moderator does something about the deliberate hijacking of the thread - without resorting to just canning the thread.

I won't hold my breath though.

[husaberg]

I'll let you know.

In the meantime, how about a moderator does something about the deliberate hijacking of the thread - without resorting to just canning the thread.

I won't hold my breath though.
Maybe if you were a little smarter you would have got why that post with a barb about smallpox was 100% about vaccination.
I see you are still trying to link it back to 911 though that was a nice touch..............:innocent:

[rambaldi]

i'd prefer it if he got smallpox but its not a deal breaker....Great Post by the way.

But that would mean the vaccines didn't work and the virus was still out there...

[bogan]

I'll let you know.

In the meantime, how about a moderator does something about the deliberate hijacking of the thread - without resorting to just canning the thread.

I won't hold my breath though.

It helps if you use the report post button :wings:

[husaberg]

But that would mean the vaccines didn't work and the virus was still out there...

Of course though the vaccines do work, As evidenced by the demise of Smallpox and of course the virus is still out there.
I think the last person who died from Smallpox was a lab worker.
No vaccination is sadly 100%.

[Katman]

No vaccination is sadly 100%.

If they were 100% I'd expect them to be ecstatic.

[TheDemonLord]

There you go again - inventing shit.

Join bogan and husaberk in the stupid cunt queue.

The funny thing is, apart from a little Artistic licence - I really didn't - you made 3 seperate claims, all without evidence, each time you got schooled on one point, you would change the Subject and move onto something else (like you are trying to do now)

I shall also take this time to create Demon's Law of KB Conspiracy threads

As a Thread in Rant and Rave increases in length, the probability that Katman will try and turn it into a discussion about 9/11 approaches 1

[bogan]

I'll let you know.

In the meantime, how about a moderator does something about the deliberate hijacking of the thread - without resorting to just canning the thread.

I won't hold my breath though.

Also, have you noticed a correlation between when you resort to insults and tantys, and the subsequent derailing of the thread?

So a free tip, is to stick to the topic/facts/science, as it would make it impossible for the 'other side' to derail the thread.

[husaberg]

If they were 100% I'd expect them to be ecstatic.
But you actually don't know much about logical thought patterns, you conspiracy religion seems to actually preclude it.

Measles affects about 20 million people a year, primarily in the developing areas of Africa and Asia. It causes the most vaccine-preventable deaths of any disease. It resulted in about 96,000 deaths in 2013, down from 545,000 deaths in 1990. In 1980, the disease is estimated to have caused 2.6 million deaths per year.
Before immunization in the United States between three and four million cases occurred each year. Most of those who are infected and who die are less than five years old. The risk of death among those infected is usually 0.2%
The death rate in the US in the 1920s was around 30% for measles pneumonia
In developed countries, children are immunized against measles at 12 months, generally as part of a three-part MMR vaccine (measles, mumps, and rubella). The vaccination is generally not given before this age because such infants respond inadequately to the vaccine due to an immature immune system.
Anti-measles antibodies are transferred from mothers who have been vaccinated against measles or have been previously infected with measles to their newborn children.However, such antibodies are transferred in low amounts and usually last six months or less Infants under one year of age whose maternal anti-measles antibodies have disappeared become susceptible to infection with the measles virus. A second dose of the vaccine is usually given to children between the ages of four and five, to increase rates of immunity. Vaccination rates have been high enough to make measles relatively uncommon. Adverse reactions to vaccination are rare, with fever and pain at the injection site being the most common. Life-threatening adverse reactions occur in less than one per million vaccinations (<0.0001%)

Measles is extremely infectious and its continued circulation in a community depends on the generation of susceptible hosts by birth of children. In communities which generate insufficient new hosts the disease will die out. This concept was first recognized in measles by Bartlett in 1957, who referred to the minimum number supporting measles as the critical community size (CCS). Analysis of outbreaks in island communities suggested that the CCS for measles is c. 250,000. To achieve herd immunity, more than 95% of the community must be vaccinated due to the ease with which measles is transmitted from person to person
In 2014, a review by the Centers for Disease Control reported a total of 911 cases of measles from 2001 to 2011, with an annual median number of 61 cases and concluded that "the elimination of endemic measles, rubella, and CRS has been sustained in the United States." However, in 2015, a measles outbreak occurred in the U.S. and spread rather farther than it should have, because misguided ideas about anti-vaccination and vaccination delaying have decreased the community immunity afforded by proper public health programs. In 2015, a U.S. woman died of pneumonia, as a result of measles. She was the first fatality in the USA from measles since 2003.

[husaberg]

The funny thing is, apart from a little Artistic licence - I really didn't - you made 3 seperate claims, all without evidence, each time you got schooled on one point, you would change the Subject and move onto something else (like you are trying to do now)

I shall also take this time to create Demon's Law of KB Conspiracy threads

As a Thread in Rant and Rave increases in length, the probability that Katman will try and turn it into a discussion about 9/11 approaches 1

Try an imagine him in a social or work situation not doing the same thing ad nausea . That along with blaming all his normal conspiracy suspects (along with the big bad wolf) for all the worlds ails either imagined or real.
It must make for some awkward diner conversations.
Put simply he has failed on any level and in all occasions. Too provide any evidence, to back up any of the assertions, he has made about vaccinations and pharmaceutical organisations, That stands up to any half hearted scrutiny. He is just too gutless to admit that he has it wrong.

[Katman]

Try an imagine him in a social or work situation not doing the same thing ad nausea . That along with blaming all his normal conspiracy suspects (along with the big bad wolf) for all the worlds ails either imagined or real.
It must make for some awkward diner conversations.
Put simply he has failed on any level and in all occasions. Too provide any evidence, to back up any of the assertions, he has made about vaccinations and pharmaceutical organisations. That stands up to any half hearted scrutiny. He is just too gutless to admit that he has it wrong.

Have you ever sat back and actually read yourself?

[husaberg]

Have you ever sat back and actually read yourself?

People can't read themselves. Conversely though they can get a read on situations, or they can read what they have written. None of which would paint you out to be anything other than a Conspiracy idiot.

[TheDemonLord]

Have you ever sat back and actually read yourself?

One could well ask - Have you?

[husaberg]

One could well ask - Have you?

Alas Katspamer is unable to answer any questions, its against his religion (conspiracy paradox)

[RDJ]

aaaaaand it's a statutory holiday, I can't ride due to having to be able to answer the phone toute suite as the Frogs say, and I have completely run out of popcorn.

Ah well, minor problems in the cosmic scheme of things.

This was interesting once I got past the daunting prospect of trying to understand Patternicity and Agenticity

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/the-curious-wavefunction/what-do-conspiracy-theories-religious-beliefs-and-detoxifying-proteins-have-in-common/

[Ocean1]

aaaaaand it's a statutory holiday, I can't ride due to having to be able to answer the phone toute suite as the Frogs say, and I have completely run out of popcorn.

Ah well, minor problems in the cosmic scheme of things.

This was interesting once I got past the daunting prospect of trying to understand Patternicity and Agenticity

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/the-curious-wavefunction/what-do-conspiracy-theories-religious-beliefs-and-detoxifying-proteins-have-in-common/

Reads like a synopsis of http://www.amazon.com/Believing-Brain-Michael-Shermer-ebook/dp/B004GHN26W/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1403987976&sr=1-1&keywords=the+believing+brain

A good read, if you've a mind.

[RDJ]

Thanks Ocean - that does look like a good read. I think I shall invest in the Kindle version.

I am a believer in the claim, attributed to Socrates, that ‘the unexamined life is not worth living’.

*
*
*
*

That said, what about the uncompromising language,”not worth living”. Why not simply claim that an examined life is better than the alternative or that it’s useful to think about things before acting? Ah well.

[Katman]

Why not simply claim that an examined life is better than the alternative or that it’s useful to think about things before acting? Ah well.

Trouble is, as a society we have been taught to not think about things and instead rely on trust.

[Katman]

That said, what about the uncompromising language,”not worth living”. Why not simply claim that an examined life is better than the alternative or that it’s useful to think about things before acting? Ah well.

Maybe you should put that whole paragraph in quotation marks.

http://www.newphilosopher.com/articles/being-fully-human/

[RDJ]

Actually, no. I prefer to deal with the reality of everyday life... Good luck with your alternative philosophy. You will be needing it because reality has an unpleasant habit of intrusion on your 'safe space.'

[Katman]

We've been systematically taught what to think - not how to think.

Governments say "don't question us - just trust us".

And likewise the pharmaceutical industry says "don't question us - just trust us".

[RDJ]

Yeah, Kman - chortle....

[Katman]

Yeah, Kman - chortle....

Are you suggesting that the pharmaceutical industry operates with complete transparency and welcomes scrutiny?

[RDJ]

Further chortling...

[Katman]

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/7-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-emerged-only-after-big-pharma-made-its-money

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/6-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-were-buried-so-big-pharma-could-make-money

[Ocean1]

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/7-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-emerged-only-after-big-pharma-made-its-money

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/6-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-were-buried-so-big-pharma-could-make-money

Oh look: an actual agenda:


AlterNet has developed a unique model of journalism to confront the failures of corporate media, as well as the vitriol and disinformation of right wing media

But I suppose it is openly declared, so it'a goda be kosher dunnit?

[husaberg]

Oh look: an actual agenda:



But I suppose it is openly declared, so it'a goda be kosher dunnit?

I actually read one article written by what ever her name was. Martha Rosenberg
She attacked both BIG BUSSINESS, BIG PHARMA and wait for it I kid you not BIG CHICKEN

It appears if you put the word BIG in front of something it means they are evil.
Shes a pretty great investigative journalist bringing us answers to such formally unknown mysteries as Chicken Nuggets actually contains nasty bits of chickens and are not all 100% breast meat.

[Katman]

Shes a pretty great investigative journalist bringing us answers to such formally unknown mysteries as Chicken Nuggets actually contains nasty bits of chickens and are not all 100% breast meat.

You'd probably be surprised at just how many dumb fucks out there aren't aware of that.

[bogan]

You'd probably be surprised at just how many dumb fucks out there aren't aware of that.

Meanwhile, in on topic discussion...

[Katman]

Meanwhile, in on topic discussion...

Good idea.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/6-ways-big-pharma-exploits-our-worst-fears-hook-america-drugs

[bogan]

Good idea.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/6-ways-big-pharma-exploits-our-worst-fears-hook-america-drugs

Sooooo many citations needed.

[Katman]

And what's the bet that once they've had the chance to stockpile sufficient supplies of the new Ebola vaccine, we'll suddenly have another Ebola outbreak and the authorities will be stressing the need for all good citizens to line up for their next vaccination.

[bogan]

And what's the bet that once they've had the chance to stockpile sufficient supplies of the new Ebola vaccine, we'll suddenly have another Ebola outbreak and the authorities will be stressing the need for all good citizens to line up for their next vaccination.

Well you had one sort of on topic post in a row at least :facepalm:

[Ocean1]

Sooooo many citations needed.

You didn't see this one? http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

[Katman]

You didn't see this one? http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

Snopes. :killingme

You'll be quoting Mythbusters next.

[bogan]

Snopes. :killingme

Is snopes the topic now then?

I quite like them, since, as Ocean pointed out, they use citations.

Some (like yourself) have tried to scorn or discredit them; some (unlike yourself) have even made compelling points on that basis. But, on the whole it is quite a good site, similar to mythbusters in some aspects, but trading off entertainment value for throughput.

[Katman]

I quite like them....

I know. :killingme

[husaberg]

I actually read one article written by what ever her name was. Martha Rosenberg
She attacked both BIG BUSSINESS, BIG PHARMA and wait for it I kid you not BIG CHICKEN

It appears if you put the word BIG in front of something it means they are evil.
Shes a pretty great investigative journalist bringing us answers to such formally unknown mysteries as Chicken Nuggets actually contains nasty bits of chickens and are not all 100% breast meat.


You'd probably be surprised at just how many dumb fucks out there aren't aware of that.

No you seem to find every internet link created by said dumb fucks, then proceed to post them, so I am not really that surprised by the numbers of them, more your reasons for posting them. Is it just for our entertainment at your stupidity and gullibility.

[Ocean1]

Snopes. :killingme

You'll be quoting Mythbusters next.

Well it was from your link.

And lookie here, I've saved you some time:

318541

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2013/10/Crispians+Conspiracy+Flowchart.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

We've been systematically taught what to think - not how to think.

Governments say "don't question us - just trust us".

And likewise the pharmaceutical industry says "don't question us - just trust us".

In order to be taught HOW to Think, one has to have enough base Knowledge.

The funny thing is - for all your pomp and Grandeur about being a Critical thinker and deriding society for not teaching people how to Think.

You swallow every bit of opionionated crap that is posted on the numerous Conspiracy Sites hook, line and Sinker, without taking a moment to fact-check/Back-Check them. And you then post them up as gospel truths, to support your Beliefs (your word, not mine) and get angry and call people Heretics, I mean Untermensch, no I mean Mysogonists, Actually its Sheeple/Stupid/Shitforbrains when they actually bother to fact check them and point out that within the first few paragraphs or minutes they commit so many Glaring errors that the rest of the Drivel can be written off as worthless.

Then you have the Audacity to demand an impossible level of Proof to sway your beliefs.

[bogan]

Well it was from your link.

And lookie here, I've saved you some time:

318541

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2013/10/Crispians+Conspiracy+Flowchart.jpg


In order to be taught HOW to Think, one has to have enough base Knowledge.

The funny thing is - for all your pomp and Grandeur about being a Critical thinker and deriding society for not teaching people how to Think.

You swallow every bit of opionionated crap that is posted on the numerous Conspiracy Sites hook, line and Sinker, without taking a moment to fact-check/Back-Check them. And you then post them up as gospel truths, to support your Beliefs (your word, not mine) and get angry and call people Heretics, I mean Untermensch, no I mean Mysogonists, Actually its Sheeple/Stupid/Shitforbrains when they actually bother to fact check them and point out that within the first few paragraphs or minutes they commit so many Glaring errors that the rest of the Drivel can be written off as worthless.

Then you have the Audacity to demand an impossible level of Proof to sway your beliefs.

Well, that's a grand slam /thread if ever I seen one.

[husaberg]

Well it was from your link.

And lookie here, I've saved you some time:

318541

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2013/10/Crispians+Conspiracy+Flowchart.jpg



In order to be taught HOW to Think, one has to have enough base Knowledge.

The funny thing is - for all your pomp and Grandeur about being a Critical thinker and deriding society for not teaching people how to Think.

You swallow every bit of opionionated crap that is posted on the numerous Conspiracy Sites hook, line and Sinker, without taking a moment to fact-check/Back-Check them. And you then post them up as gospel truths, to support your Beliefs (your word, not mine) and get angry and call people Heretics, I mean Untermensch, no I mean Mysogonists, Actually its Sheeple/Stupid/Shitforbrains when they actually bother to fact check them and point out that within the first few paragraphs or minutes they commit so many Glaring errors that the rest of the Drivel can be written off as worthless.

Then you have the Audacity to demand an impossible level of Proof to sway your beliefs.


Well, that's a grand slam /thread if ever I seen one.

It certainly is..............
But as Katmans conspiracy beliefs are religious and faith based, don't expect him to be swayed by logic.........

[mashman]

In order to be taught HOW to Think,

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... HEIL


one has to have enough base Knowledge.

And when that base knowledge is shite, what you learn is also shite.

[TheDemonLord]

And when that base knowledge is shite, what you learn is also shite.

Well, certainly explains Katman and Yokel....

[mashman]

Well, certainly explains Katman and Yokel....

For you it does.

[RDJ]

And what's the bet that once they've had the chance to stockpile sufficient supplies of the new Ebola vaccine, we'll suddenly have another Ebola outbreak and the authorities will be stressing the need for all good citizens to line up for their next vaccination.

Do you have ANY FREAKING CONCEPT of how many people sickened and died in West Africa from Ebola - while you think this epidemic was related to the eeeeevil practices of drug companies?

Sheesh.

The dead people and their families and their caregivers would have absolutely loved any available vaccine.

Strewth.

[Katman]

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/open_letters/pharma_laws_history.html

[husaberg]

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/open_letters/pharma_laws_history.html
"The primary goal of the Dr. Rath Health Foundation is to establish a New Global Healthcare System" :lol:

[Katman]

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/open_letters/pharma_laws_history.html
"The primary goal of the Dr. Rath Health Foundation is to establish a New Global Healthcare System" :lol:

Wouldn't it be preferable to have a Global Healthcare System that focused on wellness rather than making money?

[husaberg]

Wouldn't it be preferable to have a Global Healthcare System that focused on wellness rather than making money?

The term Big Pharma is used to refer collectively to global pharmaceutical industry......

[scumdog]

Wouldn't it be preferable to have a Global Healthcare System that focused on wellness rather than making money?

Sure it would - but who would pay for it?
Drug companies ain't Mother Theresa, they're just like any other commercial industry, out to make money, if somebody else can come up with a cheaper (read: make less profit) drug? - more power to them.

[Katman]

Sure it would - but who would pay for it?


There's a shit load of cures out there that cost fuck all.

We've just been duped into believing in the expensive ones.

[J.A.W.]

There's a shit load of cures out there that cost fuck all.

We've just been duped into believing in the expensive ones.

For example, Aspirin - its been around for over a century, & is off patent, so dirt cheap..

& this means that Aspirin's cancer preventative abilities were only discovered coincidentally, since dedicated research funding was
unlikely to be granted on such a product, esp, by drug companies, as no major profit was pending - as an outcome.

Likewise the lack of overall coordination/oversight in the direction of cancer prevention & treatment is simply scandalous, for a 'scientific' process..
Does 'money' trump public health? Well - with cancer it seems so, & it mainly afflicts old people, who've gotta die of something, anyhow..

Funnily enough, the Germans in the `30s, ( yeah Adolf's mob) were the 1st to show that smoking caused cancer & ban it in Gov't buildings..
This research was available to the rest of the world too, of course, but the US Gov't didn't start issuing even mild warnings about it - 'til decades later..

[mashman]

Drug companies ain't Mother Theresa, they're just like any other commercial industry, out to make money, if somebody else can come up with a cheaper (read: make less profit) drug? - more power to them.

True, they're not Mother Teresa. It's not the cost of the drug being produced that's the problem, it's the cost of developing new drugs that makes the current drug expensive. Stupid way to do business like, but meh ;).

[Katman]

Stupid way to do business like, but meh ;).

The only reason they get away with it is because so many are too stupid to see what's going on.

[TheDemonLord]

Wouldn't it be preferable to have a Global Healthcare System that focused on wellness rather than making money?

No, because Idiots like you would come up with all manner conspiracy theories about it if it existed....

[TheDemonLord]

The only reason they get away with it is because so many are too stupid to see what's going on.

So you are going to get a PhD in Biology/Chemistry and are going to come up witg a faster and cheaper way to find cures then?

Off you go.

Let me know how you get on.

[Woodman]

True, they're not Mother Teresa. It's not the cost of the drug being produced that's the problem, it's the cost of developing new drugs that makes the current drug expensive. Stupid way to do business like, but meh ;).

Do you think research and development costs aren't included in the price of all products then?:brick:

[Katman]

Do you think research and development costs aren't included in the price of all products then?:brick:

Hey, drugs don't invent themselves.