Reality Check - AA

[Reckless]

Came across this posted in our riding Group thought I might put it up for discussion?

The AA seems to be talking some sense for a change.
One sticks out of the article for me but there are more points in the article

Many crashes occur on road bends because drivers take them too fast (especially in SUVs or when it’s wet), but they may be under the speed limit when they do so.
Road conditions?? Tar bleed and poor roads actually contributing to the road toll. I know you will scream "drive to the conditions" but sooner or later there is a tipping point where Mr or Mrs Smith (who don't ride bikes and know how slippery that stuff is) are put in a situation by bad roads where they just Screwed? There never seems to be any accountability given to transit its always "to fast" even when 1/4 the speed limit would be to fast. If you get my point??



Articles here
http://www.dogandlemon.com/media/public-conned-over-anti-speeding-strategy-says-safety-campaigner

AA one
310273

[BMWST?]

Came across this posted in our riding Group though I might put it up for discussion?

The AA seems to be talking some sense for a change.
Two things stick out of the article for me

Many crashes occur on road bends because drivers take them too fast (especially in SUVs or when it’s wet), but they may be under the speed limit when they do so.
Road conditions?? Tar bleed and poor roads actually contributing to the road toll. I know you will scream "drive to the conditions" but sooner or later there is a tipping point where Mr or Mrs smith (who don't ride bikes and know how slippery that stuff is) are put in a situation by bad roads where they just Screwed??

Secondly
Of the 34 motorcyclists who died last year, only nine were not at fault.

WTF have ACC got these stats got my rego due, fucking ripped off we are :shit:

Articles here
http://www.dogandlemon.com/media/public-conned-over-anti-speeding-strategy-says-safety-campaigner

AA one
310273
ONLY 9? that still a quarter ! What does it matter if you are at fault or not..there is often more than 1 single contributing factor,and we all know that accidents can be caused by the other party and the unprotected motor cyclist can have that accident without actually crashing into the other party,ie leave the road or lose it under brakes!

[Reckless]

ONLY 9? that still a quarter ! What does it matter if you are at fault or not..there is often more than 1 single contributing factor,and we all know that accidents can be caused by the other party and the unprotected motor cyclist can have that accident without actually crashing into the other party,ie leave the road or lose it under brakes!

Ha your to quick for me I actually mis read that and edited my comment out. I had my thinking in reverse not forward gear DUH??

Ah well thought I'd leave it up for general discussion?

[caspernz]

Actual road condition does become a factor of course, but I'd guess it's also hard to quantify how much it contributed to an accident.

Tar bleed is a real issue of course, not just for bikes and cars, but it will also arse up bigger vehicles. Add in a dry spell, then a splash of rain and it becomes a lottery. How does one quantify this on accident stats though?

[Reckless]

Actual road condition does become a factor of course, but I'd guess it's also hard to quantify how much it contributed to an accident.

Tar bleed is a real issue of course, not just for bikes and cars, but it will also arse up bigger vehicles. Add in a dry spell, then a splash of rain and it becomes a lottery. How does one quantify this on accident stats though?

If we did, we might start getting some good surface not the repetitive and dangerous, good bit, really bad bit we have now.

[Flip]

Firstly FUCK THE AA.

I have been a member for 35 years, some times they have been usefull, most of the time they have been a bunch of cunts. I guess it depends who the service agent is they call out.

IMHO it comes down to skill and practice. There are few trained advanced driving training providers and almost no places available to practice advanced driving skills. They are slowly "improving" the roads so they are easier to drive on which also means that the average driver skill level continues to drop.

Cars are better, faster and safer. The roads are slowly getting better. Drivers are reilying on good roads, abs and traction control. But when they run into a tourist on the wrong side of the road they don't know what to do.

[Berries]

Cars are better, faster and safer. The roads are slowly getting better. Drivers are reilying on good roads, abs and traction control. But when they run into a tourist on the wrong side of the road they don't know what to do.
When you run in to a tourist on the wrong side of the road there is generally fuck all you can do about it. Thankfully those crashes make up about one half of fuck all percent of crashes on the road. I am more worried about the locals, pissed, tired, speeding and poorly skilled. Statistically they are the ones who will fuck you up, if you don't do it yourself first.

[SVboy]

Firstly FUCK THE AA.

I have been a member for 35 years, some times they have been usefull, most of the time they have been a bunch of cunts. I guess it depends who the service agent is they call out.

IMHO it comes down to skill and practice. There are few trained advanced driving training providers and almost no places available to practice advanced driving skills. They are slowly "improving" the roads so they are easier to drive on which also means that the average driver skill level continues to drop.

Cars are better, faster and safer. The roads are slowly getting better. Drivers are reilying on good roads, abs and traction control. But when they run into a tourist on the wrong side of the road they don't know what to do.

Mostly agree with you apart from the roads are slowly getting better. I think the lowest tender is best and a handful of chip seal and spit approach to road repair and maintainence is verging on criminal. I think roads are degrading at a rate that will be very hard to adequately reverse unless the government has a change of attitude and a bigger revenue stream to fund that change.

[Akzle]

...sooner or later there is a tipping point where Mr or Mrs Smith...are put in a situation by bad roads where they just Screwed? There never seems to be any accountability given to transit its always "to fast" even when 1/4 the speed limit would be to fast. If you get my point??

i don't get your point at all.
most roads are shit. we know it. we act accordingly.
if mrs and/or mr smith are unable to wrap their little minds around this, perhaps it's better they wrap their SUV around a powerpole,
...before they run my kids over because "the roads are bad"

brilliant thing in the opinions in the aggravate the other day "we all know there are two seasons in northland: winter, and roadworks."

like those "uneven surface" signs they put up randomly. they'd save a fucking stack of money on signage if they advertised "even surface" instead!

[Tazz]

They can piss off with the anti SUV shit. Where is the break down on the drivers ages and experience, and then the weather conditions for the SUV crashes and then for the seatbelts, how many are on the road compared to other cars? SUV's are the biggest selling vehicle class FFS. Fucking useless stat BS as usual.
If they want to go down that road they should be bleating about bloody HG vehicles first and foremost as they are the most retarded and unsafe vehicles on the road according to the 'stats'. That article makes irresponsible truck drivers to just be good guys trying to pay the bills rather than the incompetent asshats they have to be to crash the way they do.

Right on about the elderly though. There's only more of them and from what one of the staff had to go through to try get her mothers (who was going BSC) license removed from her it's not as strict as you'd think. They pretty much only target the young.

They have had a few safety campaigns on driving to the conditions (with an award winning jingle even) and driving to your and your vehicles abilities (I specifically remember the one with the mines on the road) too. They could probably hammer wet roads a bit more, particularly stopping/following distances. People seem to struggle with that.

The roads here are not the bad at all. The road works though, yeah they could do with better signage and sweeping for sure, as well as better engineering. There are always some patches that are repaired 3-4+ times before the whole lot needs to be redone.

[Akzle]

They can piss off with the anti SUV shit. Where is the break down on the drivers ages and experience, and then the weather conditions for the SUV crashes and then for the seatbelts, how many are on the road compared to other cars? SUV's are the biggest selling vehicle class FFS.

no. no you can fuck off.

hammering a fouby chassis-designed body down to a unibody platform, then making it out of shitarse panel alloy instead of actual fucking metal is gay shit. add an automatic box, fly by wire googleputer and a hundred electric gadgets to compensate for your piss-poor driver training and you're a fucking dick.
fun fact: no-one worth knowing has a rav4. quattro, cayenne, Xs 3 through 6, all gay as fuck.

SUVs are, by design, shit. they're not real fourbys, they're not real cars. they're not "sports" and they're fuckall "utility",
"vehicle" is questionable.

they're jacked up, jacked off obese station wagons. they're for the small-penis/overlarge-clit market. and everyone who owns one should kill themselves right now.

[BMWST?]

Actual road condition does become a factor of course, ................ Add in a dry spell, then a splash of rain and it becomes a lottery. How does one quantify this on accident stats though?
yes should have seen sh2 in welly this morning.....prangs everywhere!

[BMWST?]

They can piss off with the anti SUV shit. Where is the break down on the drivers ages and experience, and then the weather conditions for the SUV crashes and then for the seatbelts, how many are on the road compared to other cars? SUV's are the biggest selling vehicle class FFS. Fucking useless stat BS as usual.
If they want to go down that road they should be bleating about bloody HG vehicles first and foremost as they are the most retarded and unsafe vehicles on the road according to the 'stats'. That article makes irresponsible truck drivers to just be good guys trying to pay the bills rather than the incompetent asshats they have to be to crash the way they do.

Right on about the elderly though. There's only more of them and from what one of the staff had to go through to try get her mothers (who was going BSC) license removed from her it's not as strict as you'd think. They pretty much only target the young.

They have had a few safety campaigns on driving to the conditions (with an award winning jingle even) and driving to your and your vehicles abilities (I specifically remember the one with the mines on the road) too. They could probably hammer wet roads a bit more, particularly stopping/following distances. People seem to struggle with that.

The roads here are not the bad at all. The road works though, yeah they could do with better signage and sweeping for sure, as well as better engineering. There are always some patches that are repaired 3-4+ times before the whole lot needs to be redone.

suv may be the best selling vehicles but when you look at the vehicles around ypu on the road the "medium or small car is still by far the most numerous.Utes would outnumber SUVs?

[pritch]

SUVs are, by design, shit. they're not real fourbys, they're not real cars. they're not "sports" and they're fuckall "utility",


True. Have a look near any school at home time, queues of SUVs driven - umm steered - by people who are thinking about anything but driving.
It's so dangerous even the paedos are complaining. :whistle:

[Tazz]

no. no you can fuck off.

hammering a fouby chassis-designed body down to a unibody platform, then making it out of shitarse panel alloy instead of actual fucking metal is gay shit. add an automatic box, fly by wire googleputer and a hundred electric gadgets to compensate for your piss-poor driver training and you're a fucking dick.
fun fact: no-one worth knowing has a rav4. quattro, cayenne, Xs 3 through 6, all gay as fuck.

SUVs are, by design, shit. they're not real fourbys, they're not real cars. they're not "sports" and they're fuckall "utility",
"vehicle" is questionable.

they're jacked up, jacked off obese station wagons. they're for the small-penis/overlarge-clit market. and everyone who owns one should kill themselves right now.

The fuck. Quattro's are SUV's? Thought they only did station wagons or sedans.
I own a sedan now but would rather an SUV (none of those listed) for towing purposes and clearance. I know they are marketed and sold as being 'safer' options though. They do seem to be a bit of an in betweener but running costs and usage compared, as well as outright cost compared to 4x4's they have a place.

The old style Rav 4's I've driven a few thou and in my opinion the height vs wheelbase vs tyre profiles are dangerous, but there is nothing wrong with the handling and electric aids in the rest of that list, as horrible as they seem in theory. I've done a good 20k in a Harrier and it is a safer drive 100 times over than most rear wheel drive sedans I've driven. You could probably roll a Civic easier than one of those things.

At the end of the day in my opinion it is still absolutely the drivers fault, not the vehicle, when they decide to overcook it on a corner or drop the hammer somewhere they shouldn't in the rain.


suv may be the best selling vehicles but when you look at the vehicles around ypu on the road the "medium or small car is still by far the most numerous.Utes would outnumber SUVs?

Yeah fair point, I'm having a day off coffee so ranting like a moron came easier than normal, however it is still only part of the story. Fatality vs injury for SUV's vs other vehicles, ages vs experience etc etc all play a roll. Like with bikes a lot of the injury stats are because of people coming back to riding with little to none recent experience, is it SUV drivers coming from Fiat Pandas that can't drive for shit causing the problem or the fact that a shit ton will be company vehicles and on average doing a lot more miles than your old 92 Corolla?
Utes are cunts to drive compared to SUV's or smaller cars, so unless their coming under the SUV banner there must be some reason there if it's not just numbers, and to just write one tiny snipped of it and call it reporting pisses me off.

[pritch]

When in proximity to an SUV I am careful. Nobody who is really interested in driving would be the least bit interested in an SUV.

That might seem to be prejudice but if you follow that rule you'll probably be right more times than not? You'll be safer anyway.

[Akzle]

nothing wrong with the handling and electric aids in the rest of that list, as horrible as they seem in theory. the problem being, theyre 'compensating' for poor vehicle design and fighting physics.
Take one for a thrash on gravel and all those 'aids' become irrelevant. Because physics.
Also, gay as shit to pay to repair/place sensors because your car went gay.
If it cant be fixed with a hammer, spanners and a screwdriver, its fucking useless 80% of the places i drive.
I've done a good 20k in a Harrier and it is a safer drive 100 times over than most rear wheel drive sedans I've driven.
then youre bad at driving.
You could probably roll a Civic easier than one of those things.
giz a turn oi.

Utes are cunts to drive compared to SUV's or smaller cars,
again. Youre bad at driving.
I'll measure my penis against yours by challenging you to a race: shitarse farmhack ute vs your harriet.

[SVboy]

no. no you can fuck off.

hammering a fouby chassis-designed body down to a unibody platform, then making it out of shitarse panel alloy instead of actual fucking metal is gay shit. add an automatic box, fly by wire googleputer and a hundred electric gadgets to compensate for your piss-poor driver training and you're a fucking dick.
fun fact: no-one worth knowing has a rav4. quattro, cayenne, Xs 3 through 6, all gay as fuck.

SUVs are, by design, shit. they're not real fourbys, they're not real cars. they're not "sports" and they're fuckall "utility",
"vehicle" is questionable.

they're jacked up, jacked off obese station wagons. they're for the small-penis/overlarge-clit market. and everyone who owns one should kill themselves right now.

Well said that man!

[R650R]

How does one quantify this on accident stats though?

I don't think they do. We all know how shite the grip is on a bad wet section of tar bleed. The problem is how the police test the surface after a crash.
There method with that fancy gizmo on dash board of repeated fast stops seems to give them an average reading of grip and in a forward direction. I don't think their methods account for the contribution of initial loss of traction that even a small section of crap road can cause. Maybe our resident experts can give us more info, that's the ones that do it for a job btw not that multi quoting fella...

couple years back their was that nasty 8 person fatal when that van slid on SH27 into path of truck in wet. The investigation revealed nothing wrong with the road. But it had bad tar bleed for ages and everyone I knew was backing off for that bend in the wet and not railing it on the cruise control... Strangely enough it got resealed after investigation finished...

[R650R]

Firstly FUCK THE AA.

.

Amen. Very little of what they publish seems to be based on any hard evidence. A whole lot of editorial opinion gets printed as 'facts' a common media trend these days.

[R650R]

If they want to go down that road they should be bleating about bloody HG vehicles first and foremost as they are the most retarded and unsafe vehicles on the road according to the 'stats'. That article makes irresponsible truck drivers to just be good guys trying to pay the bills rather than the incompetent asshats they have to be to crash the way they do.


What stats are those??? Don't bother I'm not waiting to see them... Twat.

[neels]

NZ has, relatively speaking, shit roads because the population is too small to pay for good roads, if we could afford good roads then we'd be driving in the shit traffic that I experienced when I was in England on good roads, good luck getting anywhere near the speed limit in constant traffic congestion.

As for suv's being the biggest problem on the road, retired baby boomers in either motor homes or stupid little old people hatchbacks are the biggest impediment to forward progress I encounter on the road these days, coupled with the usual ignorant kiwi attitude of must not let the following vehicle pass makes for much stupid

[Reckless]

good luck getting anywhere near the speed limit in constant traffic congestion.

I'm guessing "just around the corner" is not in Auckland.
This city is screwed by 40 years of doing nothing and they'll never fix it IMHO :laugh:

[Tazz]

What stats are those??? Don't bother I'm not waiting to see them... Twat.

Have a google if you can put down your pie for long enough. Do a better effort than your security camera system pricing attempts though :laugh:

I take it you must be one of the accident prone truckles to take offence to that? If you're not crashing, not securing your load, not falling asleep at the wheel etc etc like a retard, you're not a problem.

[Tazz]

the problem being, theyre 'compensating' for poor vehicle design and fighting physics.
Take one for a thrash on gravel and all those 'aids' become irrelevant. Because physics.
Also, gay as shit to pay to repair/place sensors because your car went gay.
If it cant be fixed with a hammer, spanners and a screwdriver, its fucking useless 80% of the places i drive.
then youre bad at driving.
giz a turn oi.

again. Youre bad at driving.
I'll measure my penis against yours by challenging you to a race: shitarse farmhack ute vs your harriet.

Usually agree with you but after having owned two utes you're fucking dreaming if you think they handle better than a modern AWD SUV.
My last ute would lose traction tractoring up the hill in 3rd, sometimes 4th with no load on. They are not designed to do anything well other than carrying shit.
I'm talking actual flat deck ute and not some well side piece of shit.

You're on. Bring it on down. I've got the ruler out and the scones in the oven :laugh: Won't claim to be the worlds best driver but I'm not the worst.

Some of those traction control aids are almost as good as diff locks offroad with the way they brake individual wheels and rally cars have had traction control, track cars have a big mix depending on class. ABS is circumstantial. Some shit is gimmicky and I prefer simpler cars, mainly because I can fix shit myself, but most of it works for everyday average Joe driving.
Man they took a lot of it back out of rally cars because it worked too well and drivers needed less skill to get the same results (also due to cost). I know I'd much rather someone like Cassina behind the wheel of something with all the aids, heh, there are than blatting around in an old Datsun.

[Akzle]

Usually agree with you but after having owned two utes you're fucking dreaming if you think they handle better than a modern AWD SUV.
i didnt claim that, just that i could skid sikker in a ute than you could an suv.
Unladen flatdecks need a bit of ballast.


Some of those traction control aids are almost as good as diff locks offroad with the way they brake individual wheels

thats nowhere near as good as a diff lock. Diff locks dont brake anything.
And what happens when youre wading 2ft of water or smash your sensors off?
Go into 'limp mode' (harhar) and take it to a dealer to fix.

Yes, ive seen competent auto wankwank fourbys 'froading. Yes, they get through some shit without the driver having to put down her latte.
Still never buy one.

And id rather cassina had a busa. S/he'd either learn something (/tui) or be removed from the equation.

[Tazz]

i didnt claim that, just that i could skid sikker in a ute than you could an suv.
Unladen flatdecks need a bit of ballast.


thats nowhere near as good as a diff lock. Diff locks dont brake anything.
And what happens when youre wading 2ft of water or smash your sensors off?
Go into 'limp mode' (harhar) and take it to a dealer to fix.

Yes, ive seen competent auto wankwank fourbys 'froading. Yes, they get through some shit without the driver having to put down her latte.
Still never buy one.

And id rather cassina had a busa. S/he'd either learn something (/tui) or be removed from the equation.

All good then :D

Yeah I realize that, but still pretty awesome considering it's not it's main function at all,l and it's cheaper than a diff lock =D
Same thing that happens with your comparable '4x4' gets wet. If an SUV is to useless to offroad because of electrics then how are 4x4's any better now? Even the 70 Series, which is one of the last 'basic' ones ECU most likely isn't any higher than that. An old Safari even has it in the passenger foot well.
A hard case transfer box equipped Subaru Leone won't even survive that. 100+ series is out too and Surf factory breathers for your rear diff is sitting in the chassis at that height from memory.
Water is not a good argument :laugh: There are plenty of other things they hands down do better but other older vehicles are not as bulletproof as you make out.

I'm not going out of my way to get one, other than the weight and height advantages for towing, so I don't actually really care all that much, honest haha, was the reporting way that hit the nerve.

[R650R]

I take it you must be one of the accident prone truckles to take offence to that? If you're not crashing, not securing your load, not falling asleep at the wheel etc etc like a retard, you're not a problem.

Yeah I guess that must look real bad next to Car Drivers -unrestrained children, drink driving, drugged driving, unlicensed driving, illegal street racing... and more, could prob apply to motorcyclists as a road use group too... and then there's pedestrians...
Truck crashes are spectacular so a portion of them make good front page news when nothing else is available to sell papers to self righteous morons who can then self congratulate themselves on what great riders they are before they peel out on any Sunday and lose the front end on a patch of gravel at roadworks aye.....

[yevjenko]

...before they run my kids over

You've had kids? Ohh shit now we're really fucked

[yevjenko]

And id rather cassina had a busa. S/he'd either learn something (/tui) or be removed from the equation.

First thing you've said that I agree with... Well said!

[caspernz]

IMHO it comes down to skill and practice. There are few trained advanced driving training providers and almost no places available to practice advanced driving skills. They are slowly "improving" the roads so they are easier to drive on which also means that the average driver skill level continues to drop.

Cars are better, faster and safer. The roads are slowly getting better. Drivers are relying on good roads, abs and traction control. But when they run into a tourist on the wrong side of the road they don't know what to do.

I can't agree more with the above. Not enough training, driving too fast, too close to vehicle in front, or simply too fast for the current conditions...and hoping one can blame the crash on something other than ones' own lack of ability.

Add in the prevailing attitude of many in this country about not always keeping left, not impeding traffic unnecessarily and generally taking on a "me-first-fuck-you" style of thinking behind the wheel. My guess is our accident stats could be easily halved.

Had to laugh about the view on truckers mentioned by another poster. Now I'm a trucker myself, also a rider obviously, and I find the attitude with which a good portion of truckers approach their job...aahhmmm, questionable at best.
It never fails to amuse me when I'm in a speed limited truck, then to find another trucker overtaking me because he can run 1 or 2 km/h faster...never mind the fact he'll be holding all of us up again when he's in front climbing the next rise. Yeah I button off, for how dumb is it for one super trucker to hold up a line of cars that have patiently sat behind us both, waiting for the passing lane only to then have two trucks side by side for no other reason than the overtaker working on the MFFY principle?
Let's be honest as well, simple fact is that in the majority of single vehicle truck crashes, driver error or whatever you may want to call it, is the prevailing factor. Joe Public will be able to work that out too, so is it any wonder we don't get a lot of respect in return? But ok, what would I know after trucking on 3 continents...

[Moi]

I can't agree more with the above. Not enough training, driving too fast, too close to vehicle in front, or simply too fast for the current conditions...and hoping one can blame the crash on something other than ones' own lack of ability.

Add in the prevailing attitude of many in this country about not always keeping left, not impeding traffic unnecessarily and generally taking on a "me-first-fuck-you" style of thinking behind the wheel. My guess is our accident stats could be easily halved...

I believe many have a belief in their "own entitlement" and have no concept of "fair share / social responsibility [John Stuart Mill]"... hence the arrogant manner in which they drive and often conduct themselves when speaking to others...

Do wonder if driving would improve if ALL company vehicles [including the CEO's car and GM's car] had the name of the company on both front doors in letters about 15cm tall...

[caspernz]

I believe many have a belief in their "own entitlement" and have no concept of "fair share / social responsibility [John Stuart Mill]"... hence the arrogant manner in which they drive and often conduct themselves when speaking to others...

Do wonder if driving would improve if ALL company vehicles [including the CEO's car and GM's car] had the name of the company on both front doors in letters about 15cm tall...

The company car angle is funny, for many years ago when the transport firm I was working for started talking about speed limiting the trucks, I asked whether the company cars were gonna be done the same way? After all, on a kilometres travelled per incident, the company cars had something like 15 times the number of dings... And if looks could kill, I'd have been dead many times over :devil2:

[Tazz]

Yeah I guess that must look real bad next to Car Drivers -unrestrained children, drink driving, drugged driving, unlicensed driving, illegal street racing... and more, could prob apply to motorcyclists as a road use group too... and then there's pedestrians...
Truck crashes are spectacular so a portion of them make good front page news when nothing else is available to sell papers to self righteous morons who can then self congratulate themselves on what great riders they are before they peel out on any Sunday and lose the front end on a patch of gravel at roadworks aye.....

Man that's really hard to read with all that sunlight spewing out of your asshole.
I know exactly what a staffs truckie partner means when he talks about fuckwits in the trucking industry thanks to you, cheers!

You're so quick to defend retardation it makes you look like you've got plenty of it to hide.

[swbarnett]

Just when I was thinking the article was reasonably balanced they come with this gem "Take motorcycles – like smoking, perfectly legal and highly dangerous".

Fuck AA indeed.

[Swoop]

SUVs are, by design, shit. they're not real fourbys, they're not real cars. they're not "sports" and they're fuckall "utility",
"vehicle" is questionable.

they're jacked up, jacked off obese station wagons. they're for the small-penis/overlarge-clit market. and everyone who owns one should kill themselves right now.

I like Peter Brock's comment regarding them. He said "people had given up their Bongo vans and moved into suv's". He is correct.
Remember the type of person (family) in a bongo van...:crazy:

[swbarnett]

There are some dudes on here that say there is no such thing as shit happening too fast to do anything about it. They will keep on believing that though until it happens to them.
But it has happened to some on here that still managed to stay rubber side down.

If you think shit happens too fast then the vast majority of times it's you that are too slow because you haven't managed to train your subconscious to do the work.

[Berries]

There are some dudes on here that say there is no such thing as shit happening too fast to do anything about it. They will keep on believing that though until it happens to them.
I must be one of those 'dudes.' In 99% of crashes involving a bike the rider could have done something to avoid it. There are a few such as an overseas driver on the wrong side of the road on a blind corner or crest, which was the example, where there is really nothing practical that you can do to avoid it. This type of crash is so rare that if it concerns you you should really stay at home. But then you give the impression that a large number of crashes are unavoidable, it must be like Russian roulette when you hit the road.

[swbarnett]

driver on the wrong side of the road on a blind corner or crest, which was the example, where there is really nothing practical that you can do to avoid it.
Even then it can be done. My wife met a black BMW overtaking on a blind corner. A bit of instinctual off-roading on to the grass verge and she came out of it rubber side down.

[Akzle]

Even then it can be done. My wife met a black BMW overtaking on a blind corner. A bit of instinctual off-roading on to the grass verge and she came out of it rubber side down.

you're not suggesting... that your wife is more of a man than cass'??

[Ender EnZed]

your wife is more of a man than cass'??

That's not even close to being an insult.

[FJRider]

There are some dudes on here that say there is no such thing as shit happening too fast to do anything about it. They will keep on believing that though until it happens to them.



Don't forget the ones that believe nothing bad can happen to them .... because ...

A: They are under the posted speed limit.

B: They have Right of Way.

C: They can't see any other vehicles on the road.

D: They are almost home.

[Akzle]

That's not even close to being an insult.

of course!


... I'd far rather have sex with his wife.

[Reckless]

of course!


... I'd far rather have sex with his wife.

:psst: From previous posts on here he is a "SHE" so good luck with that :moon:

[Voltaire]

Your 99% statistic would possibly be correct but only in the case of a bike only crash eg cornering too fast or being under pressure to keep up with other riders or plainly just going to fast. When others screw up there would be no accurate way of working out a percentage. Its not just overseas drivers that can get on the wrong side of the road and have head ons. If you think its only them you are seriously mistaken. Depending on how big our vehicles are its Russian roulette for us all whether you want to believe it or not. There was a statistical saying years ago that riding a motorbike is more dangerous than being a WW1 soldier.

In the spirit of urban myth statistics:


In the UK around six million men were mobilised, and of those just over 700,000 were killed. That's around 11.5%.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25776836

I'd say the odd on Russian Roulette were 1 in 6...could be wrong.:laugh:

[FJRider]

Shit has not happened fast enough then if you can still keep rubber side down. Maybe one day it will happen as it does not always happen at the same speed despite what some on here think. The comment about the tourist driver the other poster made is a prime example.

There is no constant correlation between "Shit happening" and "Speed." :no:

For example ... If you turn onto a road in the path of a fully laden logging truck ... shit will most certainly happen .... :facepalm:

And considering the number of "Tourist Drivers" on our roads on any given day .... a percentage of them could be expected to be involved in an accident. The percentage of accidents caused by/involving overseas tourists is around 5%. (The OTHER 95% is caused by Kiwi drivers ... :shifty:)

This means the percentage of overseas tourist drivers that are involved in accidents (fatal or otherwise) would be less than 1% of ALL tourist drivers on OUR roads.

Ergo ... if I am involved in a motor vehicle accident on New Zealand roads ... the odds are ... it'll be a KIWI driver that kills me.

[Akzle]

:psst: From previous posts on here he is a "SHE" so good luck with that :moon:
it's okay. i'm a lesbian too.

If you think [ x y z ] you are seriously mistaken.
lol @ you telling ANYONE this.


I'd say the odd on Russian Roulette were 1 in 6...could be wrong.:laugh:
that movie... "13"

[FJRider]

... There was a statistical saying years ago that riding a motorbike is more dangerous than being a WW1 soldier.

The chances of avoiding a bullet whilst riding a moving motorcycle are good. The chances of avoiding an SUV are less.

Statistics ... eh ... ;)


And they are on YOUR side (Pun intended)... :facepalm:

[swbarnett]

Shit has not happened fast enough then if you can still keep rubber side down.
I've had shit happen so fast that I didn't know it had happened until it was all over. My subconscious brain took care of all that was needed. Hell, I've even had my subconscious refuse to apply the rear brake when I wanted to - only afterwards did I realise that to do so would've resulted in an almost certain off.

[swbarnett]

you're not suggesting... that your wife is more of a man than cass'??
Of course, that's not exactly hard to acheive.