Same letter to Police Infringement Bureau, different outcome.

[jaykay]

A strange situation, so bear with me.

My business partner and I just happened to pass through the same mobile speed camera within ten minutes of each other, last December. (In different cars I might add).

I spotted it, took pictures, and received an infringement notice for 55 in a 50, $30 fine.

He didn't, and received a notice for 56 in a 50, same $30 fine.

We both wrote in along the lines of "without a photograph to identify the alleged offence... a hearing is requested". Both letters sent to arrive just before the 28 day time limit for the Reminder Notice.

I was written to (with photo), saying could I confirm I wanted a hearing etc etc - and I could ask for one before the 28 days ran out. As it was passed this time - and I had requested a hearing, and whilst considering what to do I received a Notice of Fine for $60.

Business partner has been sent a summons (plus a photo) - nothing else.

So, I have to do the Form 57 bit, business partner will have to put up with the defence I have worked out (that may or may not work, magistrates in the District Court being what they are).

The camera van was parked near to the change in limit from 60 to 50 in Wigram, Christchurch.

55 in a 50! I feel like a proper criminal.

[liljegren]

Just pay the bloody fine man! Sign says 50, you ignored it, you got nabbed, end.

[Akzle]

power to the people!
Deny deny deny.

[FJRider]

I was written to (with photo), saying could I confirm I wanted a hearing etc etc - and I could ask for one before the 28 days ran out. As it was passed this time - and I had requested a hearing, and whilst considering what to do I received a Notice of Fine for $60.

Business partner has been sent a summons (plus a photo) - nothing else.

So, I have to do the Form 57 bit, business partner will have to put up with the defence I have worked out (that may or may not work, magistrates in the District Court being what they are).

The camera van was parked near to the change in limit from 60 to 50 in Wigram, Christchurch.

55 in a 50! I feel like a proper criminal.

Such is due process of Law.

Don't pay the $60 and you will get a summons too ...

A hearing may not find you innocent ... because you were found traveling at a speed OVER the posted speed limit. Expect a larger fine if you DO get your hearing.


A speeding ticket means you have infringed part of the Legislation ... relating to the Land Transport Act. Any feelings of criminality you might have ... might need the attention/help of your local Mental health team.

Good luck with that.

[Murray]

Jeez its not possible they have more than 1 person processing these is it????

[FJRider]

Jeez its not possible they have more than 1 person processing these is it????

Personally ... I would have paid the initial $30 ... considering there was NO denial of guilt (well not in this thread) ...

[FJRider]

power to the people!
Deny deny deny.

No mention of a claim ... it was not HIM in the photo they sent ... :bleh:

[Reckless]

The camera van was parked near to the change in limit from 60 to 50 in Wigram, Christchurch.

How close isn't there a rule 250m?? also rules as to where they can set up cameras? Might be worth a look if you check it out?
If its 300m you never know the judge may take pity, does a cop have actually to go to court?

[thepom]

As I understand it the police have to go to court if you put in a plea of not guilty, you don,t turn up! get a bigger fine but the policeman has wasted a bit of time but the good side is he wont handing out any tickets while he is there.......I would do that just to keep them off the road......it,s a traffic offence and its not as though he was out kicking in P houses doors and doing a proper job!

[Fastmark]

So assuming that the correspondents you have been doing to try and get off of this was done during business hours, isn't that a waste of time, time is money etc.... If you spend even a couple of hours (based on minimum wage) on this you will have covered the original fine. You were speeding, cough up

[nodrog]

So assuming that the correspondents you have been doing to try and get off of this was done during business hours, isn't that a waste of time, time is money etc.... If you spend even a couple of hours (based on minimum wage) on this you will have covered the original fine. You were speeding, cough up

Fuck I reckon, I just wasted more than that just reading this.

[Latte]

Such is due process of Law.

Don't pay the $60 and you will get a summons too ...

A hearing may not find you innocent ... because you were found traveling at a speed OVER the posted speed limit. Expect a larger fine if you DO get your hearing.


A speeding ticket means you have infringed part of the Legislation ... relating to the Land Transport Act. Any feelings of criminality you might have ... might need the attention/help of your local Mental health team.

Good luck with that.

Sorry off-topic, and I'm sure it's been asked before on here, do you have conversations with people (like down at the pub, or at home with the missus etc), emphasising random words in a sentence? Reminds me of Tourette's for some reason.

[R650R]

As I understand it the police have to go to court if you put in a plea of not guilty, you don,t turn up! get a bigger fine but the policeman has wasted a bit of time but the good side is he wont handing out any tickets while he is there.......I would do that just to keep them off the road......it,s a traffic offence and its not as though he was out kicking in P houses doors and doing a proper job!

The cop will already be off the road, minor stuff like this will be assigned a traffic court date, which is just the local district court but a day set for minor stuff like this. I'd say a minor case like this would be at the back of the que while they deal with the disqualified drivers, careless use charges etc, boy racers.... worst case he might not be heard and have to come back the next week again!!!

So easily half a day wasted plus court costs of $150 and maybe even witness expenses if they have to call in the camera operator, just pay the fine....

[FJRider]

....it,s a traffic offence and its not as though he was out kicking in P houses doors and doing a proper job!

The speed camera operator wont be (unlikely to be) a general duties officer .... and a while back ... was not even a sworn officer. The job was contracted out ...

[FJRider]

... Reminds me of Tourette's for some reason.

I hate to go off topic too ... :laugh: .. but Leave your family issues out of it. I'm not familiar with that syndrome .... what does it involve .. ??? :scratch:

[gjm]

106 in a 100, camera van later (much later, after we'd paid) shown to be parked inappropriately for the surveillance undertaken.

$30 paid. Refund? Nah. No chance.

Then we received the picture.

310354

I've not edited the picture.

D'oh. Not enough info at the time, and for the sake of $30 couldn't be bothered contesting what was a mistake on our part.

Oh well. {shrug}

[local]

Sorry off-topic, and I'm sure it's been asked before on here, do you have conversations with people (like down at the pub, or at home with the missus etc), emphasising random words in a sentence? Reminds me of Tourette's for some reason.


+1 ...

10 char ...

:killingme

[FJRider]

106 in a 100, camera van later (much later, after we'd paid) shown to be parked inappropriately for the surveillance undertaken.

$30 paid. Refund? Nah. No chance.

Then we received the picture.



I've not edited the picture.

D'oh. Not enough info at the time, and for the sake of $30 couldn't be bothered contesting what was a mistake on our part.

Oh well. {shrug}

There was enough info to send you a ticket ... they got the rego right ... didn't they .. ???


Unless you can prove it was not the Registered owner driving ... or can't/wont supply info on who was driving at the time ... :pinch:

[gjm]

There was enough info to send you a ticket ... they got the rego right ... didn't they .. ???


Unless you can prove it was not the Registered owner driving ... or can't/wont supply info on who was driving at the time ... :pinch:

It's registered to me, but Mrs M was driving. I requested the pic based on knowing it wasn't me driving that day and was advised that any photographic evidence might not show who the driver is.

I obviously know what the rego is and I couldn't read it from the pic... There was a case in Hawkes Bay (I think) of a lawyer who contested a similar ticket and got off based on the authorities having used software to work out the rego number. That could have been an interesting exercise, but not worth the effort for the very small financial return.

As was said earlier - get caught travelling over the speed limit, get fined. It happens.

[Akzle]

As was said earlier - get caught travelling over the speed limit, get fined. It happens.

“If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.” – Thomas Jefferson

[rastuscat]

Hey Azkill. I bet Thomas Jefferson never got nabbed by a camera car.

When did we ever lose sight of the fact that of the original offence hadn't been committed, none of this would have occurred?

If thousands of people each week weren't exceeding the democratically designated speed limit, I guess we'd be chatting about greater things.

Just saying, with some confusion as to which hat I'm wearing as I wrote this over breakfast.

[gjm]

Hey Azkill. I bet Thomas Jefferson never got nabbed by a camera car.

When did we ever lose sight of the fact that of the original offence hadn't been committed, none of this would have occurred?

If thousands of people each week weren't exceeding the democratically designated speed limit, I guess we'd be chatting about greater things.

Just saying, with some confusion as to which hat I'm wearing as I wrote this over breakfast.

The only bit of that I'd argue with is 'democratically'.

It's arbitrary, not democratic, and the number chosen was a convenient one, not one with any real sort of scientific evaluation.

Regardless, the lurr is the lurr (to misquote Peter Sellers in Pink Panther). Break it, get caught, face the consequences.

However ridiculous it may seem in some circumstances. :wacko:

[Akzle]

the democratically designated speed limit,

:killingme
democratic. Oh rast!
That old saying,
You can take the cunt out of the cops...

[unstuck]

When did we ever lose sight of the fact that of the original offence hadn't been committed, none of this would have occurred?



About sums it up. Motorcyclists seem to be turning into a bunch of crybaby pansies at an alarming rate.
OP, waaaa waaa waaaaa:crybaby:

[pritch]

I hate to go off topic too ... :laugh: .. but Leave your family issues out of it. I'm not familiar with that syndrome .... what does it involve .. ??? :scratch:

Words given undue emphasis create the impression that all is not well with the writer. At least in this case the text wasn't green.

Anyone who doesn't understand the reference to the text colour should look up "green ink" in the search engine of their choice.:weird:

[rastuscat]

:killingme
democratic. Oh rast!
That old saying,
You can take the cunt out of the cops...


Chur for the opportunity to clarify democracy for you.



democracy
noun
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

So says Google, anyway.

In our case, we elect Members of Parliament who are then given the authority to delegate functions through their departments. Those departments formulate laws and policies, which are then signed off by the democratically elected MPs.

Speed limits are one such policy, and there are laws around that.

I happen to disagree with a lot of them too, but I accept that living in a democracy means that we can't always have our own way. It's part of being a citizen in such a country as ours.

Azkill, get elected, and convince enough people of your views, so we can all live in the unrealistic utopia you inhabit.

Yawn.

[rastuscat]

The only bit of that I'd argue with is 'democratically'.

It's arbitrary, not democratic, and the number chosen was a convenient one, not one with any real sort of scientific evaluation.

Regardless, the lurr is the lurr (to misquote Peter Sellers in Pink Panther). Break it, get caught, face the consequences.

However ridiculous it may seem in some circumstances. :wacko:

It's the arbitrary nature that bugs me. I don't like it either.

However, that doesn't make it un-democratic.

[awayatc]

Hey Azkill. I bet Thomas Jefferson never got nabbed by a camera car.

.

I bet we would never have camera cars if Thomas Jefferson would have had a say in it...

(Or any other statesman with a functioning moral compass....)

[Reckless]

If thousands of people each week weren't exceeding the democratically designated speed limit, I guess we'd be chatting about greater things.

They are generally? Most trying to stay to the 105 some risking the 109 and also especially in a 50 the gubberment must be making a fortune considering Sydney's lowest general suburban limit is 60k.
Try the going to Thames "90k safer speed Zone" even grandma Smith is doing 99K almost no one doing the 90?
A very large % of people go a little over 50, so they fine at a level 99.9% of people pay, then bung as many cameras out as you can.
So I question your statement?

BTW Burgulary clearance is at 6.1% in Auckland (down 1.5%) so its help yourself for the other 94%

Ah well don't wanna shoot the messenger but I think Police need a refocus?

[rastuscat]

Ah well don't wanna shoot the messenger but I think Police need a refocus?

It varies from year to year, but this year 25% of the Police gross funding comes from the Land Transport Fund.

It's no surprise that the Gubbermint expects that money to be spent on traffic stuff. Imagine that, spending money where it's supposed to be spent.

The crime is the lack of funding for non road policing stuff. Grizzle about that. But don't expect staff funded for road stuff to be working on burglaries.

As soon as the Police all forgot about traffic work, that 25% would disappear, as would the staff it pays for. Self defeating argument, that.

[TheDemonLord]

It varies from year to year, but this year 25% of the Police gross funding comes from the Land Transport Fund.

It's no surprise that the Gubbermint expects that money to be spent on traffic stuff. Imagine that, spending money where it's supposed to be spent.

The crime is the lack of funding for non road policing stuff. Grizzle about that. But don't expect staff funded for road stuff to be working on burglaries.

As soon as the Police all forgot about traffic work, that 25% would disappear, as would the staff it pays for. Self defeating argument, that.

It does, however confirm the long held belief that Speeding enforcement is revenue gathering. The police don't get the full funding they need, so they 'focus' on easy to prosecute crimes that have a financial reward, as opposed to other crime that impact the average mostly law-abiding citizen.

[awayatc]

As soon as the Police all forgot about traffic work, that 25% would disappear, as would the staff it pays for. Self defeating argument, that.

You sold it to me.....

Can't see a downside to that statement....


road policing in itself could theoretically be beneficial to population at large.
but we all know that is not at all what is happening.
traffic cops funding needs to show a good return....

Distasteful, and reprehensible...
Architects and executioners alike

[Delerium]

They are generally? Most trying to stay to the 105 some risking the 109 and also especially in a 50 the gubberment must be making a fortune considering Sydney's lowest general suburban limit is 60k.
Try the going to Thames "90k safer speed Zone" even grandma Smith is doing 99K almost no one doing the 90?
A very large % of people go a little over 50, so the fine at a level 99.9% of people pay, then bung as many cameras out as you can.
So I question your statement?

BTW Burgulary clearance is at 6.1% in Auckland (down 1.5%) so its help yourself for the other 94%

Ah well don't wanna shoot the messenger but I think Police need a refocus?

Part of the reason (and things like the I am innocent tv series) why an increasing number of people dot trust or give a shit about the police.

[bsasuper]

I have a falcon radar speed gun, I checked the speed of vehicles before they got pinged by the popo, target speed 55kph in a 50 kph zone, target speed of popo to catch up to the crime breaking speeder in 50 kph zone up tp 90 kph!, total madness!

[husaberg]

so would legalising cannabis or rape, for that matter. don't see you waving the fuckin flag for them.

.

Are you for real suggesting legalising rape would make people happy??
Even for a troll monger, look at me guy, that would have to be the lowest depth you have sunk to yet!!

Why, when people are on ignore you can now see their comments when quoted. You didnt used to see them and I would rather not see comments so purile as this one??


Legalising rape would make a lot of people happy??? You are sick

Why, in any sense of the word, would I wave the flag for legalising rape and I find the comment offensive.


well obviously not the rape-es, but the rape-rs, sure..


Or for threatening to rape my children. I am all for a good debate and don't think much is off limits, but threats to children as a form of retaliation is off the reservation....


That shit is wrong. Seriously wrong. What are the rules for expulsion if that doesn't count as a serious offence here on KiddieBiker.


“If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.” – Thomas Jefferson

http://www.stlucianewsonline.com/desruisseaux-man-caught-in-the-act-with-goat/


Sort of like having "the big moment" before the foreplay has even started??

Oh, and as a side comment, Axjewzle is only doing his best to replace the topkat in the notoriety stakes. The big differences are (a) he is a total attention whore and (b) he actually has nothing pertinent to say at all.

[jaykay]

As I mentioned in another thread, business partner (the one who got the summons), attended court a few days ago.

Ah said the police, I see you've turned up - can't find any of the paperwork so we will be withdrawing.

The magistrate claimed it was "your lucky day".

Saved $30 - for 56 in a 50.

What a complete waste of everyone's time.

I've had to fill in a "Form 57", to correct an irregularity in proceedings as I requested a hearing - not sure if I'm going to get a hearing, get another reminder notice, have the police withdraw, have the Form 57 denied.

I'll report back as soon as anything happens.

A hearing could be interesting as I have a reasonable defence.

[mossy1200]

It varies from year to year, but this year 25% of the Police gross funding comes from the Land Transport Fund.

It's no surprise that the Gubbermint expects that money to be spent on traffic stuff. Imagine that, spending money where it's supposed to be spent.

The crime is the lack of funding for non road policing stuff. Grizzle about that. But don't expect staff funded for road stuff to be working on burglaries.

As soon as the Police all forgot about traffic work, that 25% would disappear, as would the staff it pays for. Self defeating argument, that.

Do the police spend more than said 25% on traffic enforcement?

[rastuscat]

Do the police spend more than said 25% on traffic enforcement?

Certainly not in my experience. The money for road policing gets spent on other things.

Here's an example. A general duties cop is funded to spend say, 15% of his time on traffic stuff.

They get so busy doing other stuff, the 15% doesn't get done.

That's what you can easily call cross-subsidusing.

The 15% of the cops time that's meant to be spent on road policing is spent on general criminal stuff. How about the gubbermint starts funding the general policing stuff properly, then it wouldn't have to be taken from the Land Transport Fund.

[jaykay]

Update time.

As the original alleged offence was the 5th December 2014, I didn't want to tempt fate by alerting the police to what was going on.

Why does the 5th December matter? Simply because the police have six months to either file a reminder notice in court or issue a summons.

They have done neither.

Another reminder notice has been issued, which expires on 27th July. As you can see this is well outside the six months, therefore the police cannot file it in court if I don't pay, and if I requested a hearing, I won't get one as a summons cannot be issued.

Pity really, any road with over 500 vehicles a day must have a change of speed limit sign on both sides of the road. In this particular instance there is only one on one side, the questions for the speed camera van operator would have been amusing.

$30 saved.

[sil3nt]

lol all this for $30.

[Delerium]

It does, however confirm the long held belief that Speeding enforcement is revenue gathering. The police don't get the full funding they need, so they 'focus' on easy to prosecute crimes that have a financial reward, as opposed to other crime that impact the average mostly law-abiding citizen.

and the constant denying of things like the officers quotas, taking credit for reduced road tolls but when it goes up its external factors.

People are over being fed bullshit.

[jonnyk5614]

Can I just get back to the point, you thought it was worth going to court for $30?

Letter:
Writing - 15mins at minimum wage $3.70
Printing - 20c
Postage - $1

Court:
2 hours our of day - $29.50
Parking - $5
Petrol to get there - $5

Total - $44.40.


So you essentially charged yourself at extra $14.40.....

[Erelyes]

Pity really, any road with over 500 vehicles a day must have a change of speed limit sign on both sides of the road. In this particular instance there is only one on one side, the questions for the speed camera van operator would have been amusing.

$30 saved.

312943

10char? 10char.

[scumdog]

Can I just get back to the point, you thought it was worth going to court for $30?

Letter:
Writing - 15mins at minimum wage $3.70
Printing - 20c
Postage - $1

Court:
2 hours our of day - $29.50
Parking - $5
Petrol to get there - $5

Total - $44.40.


So you essentially charged yourself at extra $14.40.....

Last guy I know of that defended a 61kph speed camera ticket ended up costing himself $1,030.

Plus the cost of the original ticket.

[jaykay]

How it all ended.

Had a phone call from the Police this morning - saying that as the Speed Camera operator was on long term sick leave the case was being withdrawn. Result.

It would have been interesting to defend in court - as the speed limit signs don't comply with the law.

Where the limit changes from 60 to 50 there is only one sign on the LHS of the road - regulations say that where there is two way traffic of more than 500 vehicles per day there must be a sign on each side of the carriageway. The road in question (where Springs Rd leaves Main South Rd, Sockburn, Christchurch) has a lot more than 500 vehicles a day and hence should have two signs.

Edited to add:

Just cleared my PO Box and there was the court summons (now redundant), all 15 pages. As I mentioned in my first post I took pictures of the speed camera van at 11.15 am on 5th December last year - the photo enclosed also has the time on it - 10.15am - and I know my phone isn't wrong.

[R650R]

Can police reinstate a fine once its been waived....????

A certain individual is publicly claiming success at having a ticket revoked after writing to a newspaper and to the infringement bereau....
Obviously he didn't include the language and descriptions of police that he used in other place while writing his letter...
Lucky for him I have a life but be a shame if the cops or press read his other remarks on the matter....

[FJRider]

Can police reinstate a fine once its been waived....????



Giving false evidence is an offence. As is attempting to pervert the course of justice.

The original offence may not stand ... but the two I've stated are very much frowned on ...

[R650R]

Nothing as serious as that. He's only guilty of hypcracy and original offence.
But the offence has been waived due to media pressure and some serious grovel and polite writing....