NZTA: doing it wrong again

[Scuba_Steve]

Carmel Indiana, since the late 1990's has removed traffic lights in favour of roundabouts. This was to remove congestion, which it did, but also had the side effect of reducing roading costs by significant amount (both install & maintenance), reducing accidents by 40% & reducing accidents with injuries by 80%

So it's improved commuting times, reduced costs, reduced congestion, reduced accidents & injury's & made drivers happier

... Meanwhile in NZ NZTA are removing giveways & roundabouts to piss money away on traffic lights, increasing congestion, increasing cost, increasing commute times, & potentially increasing accidents & injuries.

[Gadget1]

Carmel Indiana, since the late 1990's has removed traffic lights in favour of roundabouts. This was to remove congestion, which it did, but also had the side effect of reducing roading costs by significant amount (both install & maintenance), reducing accidents by 40% & reducing accidents with injuries by 80%

So it's improved commuting times, reduced costs, reduced congestion, reduced accidents & injury's & made drivers happier

... Meanwhile in NZ NZTA are removing giveways & roundabouts to piss money away on traffic lights, increasing congestion, increasing cost, increasing commute times, & potentially increasing accidents & injuries.


Yeah, but without traffic lights ya can't have traffic cameras ka ching ka ching.

[rustic101]

Without wanting the facts to get in the way of a good story, I'd love to see the research.

Kiwi drivers and their behaviours may also differ than those of drivers in Carmel Indiana, and I could be wrong on that...

I personally have seen more crashes at roundabouts than I have at signalised intersections, not to mention inverse vehicles and other behaviours that would leave you scratching your head.. But hey I could be compltley wrong.

[Oakie]

Without wanting the facts to get in the way of a good story, I'd love to see the research.

Kiwi drivers and their behaviours may also differ than those of drivers in Carmel Indiana, and I could be wrong on that...

I personally have seen more crashes at roundabouts than I have at signalised intersections, not to mention inverse vehicles and other behaviours that would leave you scratching your head.. But hey I could be compltley wrong.

There was a thing on Mythbusters on Sunday ... 4 way intersections vs roundabouts. Showed that roundabouts were about 20% more effective at moving traffic.

[ducatilover]

Every time I go in to Hastings (which is a lot...) I see another round about, so dunno wtf you're on about.
They are awesome though, good for skids and knee downs.

[rustic101]

There was a thing on Mythbusters on Sunday ... 4 way intersections vs roundabouts. Showed that roundabouts were about 20% more effective at moving traffic.

Yeah I streamed it a bit back and was interesting with respect to efficiency,and I'd not dispute throughput, from memory they never addressed safety???

Whats interesting is all of the other behaviours like approach speed, SRT, human reaction and response and a raft of other factors associated with roundabouts that make them unsafe in some situation.

Not advocating one over the other, however the biggest difference is kiwi drivers are unlike any I've seen around the world - we are awesome, or so most would have us believe 😳

[Scuba_Steve]

Without wanting the facts to get in the way of a good story, I'd love to see the research.

Kiwi drivers and their behaviours may also differ than those of drivers in Carmel Indiana, and I could be wrong on that...

I personally have seen more crashes at roundabouts than I have at signalised intersections, not to mention inverse vehicles and other behaviours that would leave you scratching your head.. But hey I could be compltley wrong.

Research is out there, these guys have been studying the results since it was started in 1996 (I think it was).
I think there are places for traffic lights but 95% of them in NZ are unneeded & just serve to cause congestion & increase roading problems; Red light runners are a result of the excessive use of traffic lights & it's only getting worse

[Erelyes]

Roundabouts are shit for filtering.

[jim.cox]

Roundabouts are NOT pedestrian friendly

and only work well when traffic flows are well balanced on all the approaches

[Mike.Gayner]

95% of them in NZ are unneeded & just serve to cause congestion & increase roading problems

Yep you sure know better than road engineers who do this stuff for a living. Congrats on your Google U degree.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yep you sure know better than road engineers who do this stuff for a living. Congrats on your Google U degree.

I don't know better, they know exactly the same, it's the reason those 95% get put in.

[Berries]

You should come down and see the queues caused by the new roundabout abortion at Glenda Drive outside Queenstown. You would soon change your mind.

[Scuba_Steve]

You should come down and see the queues caused by the new roundabout abortion at Glenda Drive outside Queenstown. You would soon change your mind.

What did it replace?
I'm not saying roundabouts are a perfect answer for all intersections, we still need give ways & the occasional traffic light; but I am saying we have FAR too many unneeded & unwarranted traffic lights.

[unstuck]

Whats a traffic light? We don't have those, but we do have some new traffic islands, which are proving to be costly to replace when the trucks drive over them.

[Berries]

What did it replace?
A T intersection on an 80 km/h road that some people had trouble with. Only temporary but causing horrendous queues on the main road. Luckily nobody will get killed at walking pace so it will look like it was a good idea.

[Swoop]

Meanwhile in NZ NZTA are removing giveways & roundabouts to piss money away on traffic lights

I'm not sure of how much is involved now, but back in the '90s a set of traffic lights cost $80,000.
That is just for the lights and controller, not including installation or the obvious input of local councils who would have added to the costs quite substantially.

[unstuck]

not including installation or the obvious input of local councils who would have added to the costs quite substantially.

They would spend much more than that having a 2 week holiday in Wanaka to discuss the issue.:2thumbsup

[caspernz]

Might just be a local thing, favouring roundabouts over traffic lights.

Or you can have both, like favoured in parts of the UK, roundabouts with traffic lights. There's now one such oddity at the bottom of Greville Road...and here's me thinking that if you put lights on the bugger just make it a fourway junction?

[Gadget1]

I'm not sure of how much is involved now, but back in the '90s a set of traffic lights cost $80,000.
That is just for the lights and controller, not including installation or the obvious input of local councils who would have added to the costs quite substantially.

At even $80,000 a shot that's a big expense for the coffers.

I found this about traffic signals versus roundabouts:https://www.ipenz.org.nz/ipenztg/papers/2011/Campbell%20Duncan.pdf

[Scuba_Steve]

Whats a traffic light? We don't have those, but we do have some new traffic islands, which are proving to be costly to replace when the trucks drive over them.

It's these posts with pretty coloured lights on them which allows drivers to stop thinking & do more "important" things like makeup, reading papers & drinking coffee, eating breakfast etc... They're quite prevalent here in the Norf

[Gadget1]

It's these posts with pretty coloured lights on them which allows drivers to stop thinking & do more "important" things like makeup, reading papers & drinking coffee, eating breakfast etc... They're quite prevalent here in the Norf

That "stop thinking" is the problem alright.

[unstuck]

It's these posts with pretty coloured lights on them which allows drivers to stop thinking & do more "important" things like makeup, reading papers & drinking coffee, eating breakfast etc... They're quite prevalent here in the Norf

We only have those at the drags. :nya:

[Berries]

We only have those at the drags.
Pretty things?

I'd heard that about Gore.

[unstuck]

Pretty things?

I'd heard that about Gore.

Wrong kind of drags, I would guess those type would not dare walk around in public. People seem to hear all sorts of things about gore, most of it true.:2thumbsup

[p.dath]

Rounabouts seems to work okay when they are single lanes. They are a bit so-so once they become dual laned, and nasty at three lanes.

There's a place for both. Its about choosing the right solution for the problem, and not about choosing one solution for every problem.

[Scuba_Steve]

And they're at it again...

The agency tasked to look after the nation's roadways have been called on to explain a cycle lane trial that left motor vehicles on a collision course.

The New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) created two sets of cycle lanes on Thursday and Friday last week on either side of Roto-o-rangi Rd near Leamington in Cambridge.

Roto-o-rangi Rd was reduced to the size of a single lane just three paces wide, leaving local councillors fuming.

The speed limit was reduced to 60kmh to allow for the cyclists and cars to share the road but by Saturday, the monitored trial was called off. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/70617383/nzta-abandons-cycle-safe-trial-after-a-day)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/6/2/4/u/m/image.gallery.galleryLandscape.600x400.1624ls.png/1438125448204.jpg

[mashman]

And they're at it again...

The agency tasked to look after the nation's roadways have been called on to explain a cycle lane trial that left motor vehicles on a collision course.

The New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) created two sets of cycle lanes on Thursday and Friday last week on either side of Roto-o-rangi Rd near Leamington in Cambridge.

Roto-o-rangi Rd was reduced to the size of a single lane just three paces wide, leaving local councillors fuming.

The speed limit was reduced to 60kmh to allow for the cyclists and cars to share the road but by Saturday, the monitored trial was called off. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/70617383/nzta-abandons-cycle-safe-trial-after-a-day)


That's fuckin superb... although they look like great M/C lanes :shifty:

[5ive]

I'm all for creating seperate, dedicated cycle lanes, but that idea from NZTA can get go and get fucked outside of an already low speed, pedestrianised urban area.

[R650R]

And they're at it again...



This kinda shit has got to be stopped before someone gets killed. I'm tired of seeing unannounced variations to our standard road markings 'trialled' on major state highways and other significant roads.
Whats the point of having a licensing regime and standardised training in the road environment is going to be changed every five mins. People have enough problems coping with the status quo let alone these feel good socil nonsense changes.
And all that just for the Saturday morning latte crowd on their boy racer pushbikes. Who ever thought this nonsense would work here should be sacked. Never mind the NZ car drivers relying to decide whose going to back off and pull left, I bet half the cyclists wouldn't back off their pace and it would be a lottery as to which one inevitably slams into the back of the car that has stopped to give way...

[Tazz]

This kinda shit has got to be stopped before someone gets killed. I'm tired of seeing unannounced variations to our standard road markings 'trialled' on major state highways and other significant roads.

They're announced. You just need to pay and then find the notice that you don't know you're looking for in the paper.

[caseye]

And they're at it again...

The agency tasked to look after the nation's roadways have been called on to explain a cycle lane trial that left motor vehicles on a collision course.

The New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) created two sets of cycle lanes on Thursday and Friday last week on either side of Roto-o-rangi Rd near Leamington in Cambridge.

Roto-o-rangi Rd was reduced to the size of a single lane just three paces wide, leaving local councillors fuming.

The speed limit was reduced to 60kmh to allow for the cyclists and cars to share the road but by Saturday, the monitored trial was called off. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/70617383/nzta-abandons-cycle-safe-trial-after-a-day)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/6/2/4/u/m/image.gallery.galleryLandscape.600x400.1624ls.png/1438125448204.jpg

Finally! I hope the fucking dip shit local and national politicians who thought that 1.5metres clearance for a car passing a cyclist was a good idea, now get to see the actual size of the roadway left for cars to use safely. Perfect, well No it's not. But now the evidence that pandering to the lycra brigade is in fact dangerous folly is available in black and white.
This road used to be a dual motor car cariageway.
Now legally seperated into the separate components that the lyrca wearers want and hey presto it becomes clear. WE NEED BIGGER ROADS.
Well we do if we want to let fucking push bikes use them too.
Seriously? Did it really have to come down to painting the lines on the road to actually see what anyone ordinary car driver told them in the first place. Our roads are not wide enough to allow motor vehicles and push bikes to operate safely in unison with the most outlandish claim that we must give them 2/3rds of our own lane when passing them.

[Kickaha]

Now legally seperated into the separate components that the lyrca wearers want and hey presto it becomes clear. WE NEED BIGGER ROADS.
Well we do if we want to let fucking push bikes use them too.
Seriously? Did it really have to come down to painting the lines on the road to actually see what anyone ordinary car driver told them in the first place. Our roads are not wide enough to allow motor vehicles and push bikes to operate safely in unison with the most outlandish claim that we must give them 2/3rds of our own lane when passing them.


If motorists/cyclists weren't all such a pack of ignorant cunts it wouldn't matter what width the road was

[R650R]

Ohh this is pure freakin gold, I just realised another copuple of aspects after cases post....
How the F does one give 1.5 m clearance in the above scenario assuming cyclists are using both lanes.
Also we know the cyclists wont use those lanes as due to no cars driving on them they will be full of glass (well according to the cyclists anyway)....

[mashman]

You gotta wonder who uttered the phrase: "I don't care. Just paint the fuckin road."

[Voltaire]

You gotta wonder who uttered the phrase: "I don't care. Just paint the fuckin road."

I bet a lot of money went into meetings and consultants before that phase was uttered :msn-wink:

[mashman]

I bet a lot of money went into meetings and consultants before that phase was uttered :msn-wink:

heh... I bet there was lots of laughter as the guys went about their work at the coalface. Kinda surprising that the lines are straight :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

And people think that Government departments have the brain power to come up with Elaborate schemes.....

[Moi]

It no longer exists...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/70658795/priority-to-cyclists-lead-motorists-on-a-collision-course

and there's even a way to give feedback to NZTA...

[awa355]

I ride that road most weeks and apart from the occasional club ride, there are rarely more than a few individual cyclists at any one time.

[R650R]

And people think that Government departments have the brain power to come up with Elaborate schemes.....

Assasinations, remote hijackings and other conspiracies are carried out by special forces, fucking around with roads is carried out by 'academics' in NZTA... no comparison really ;p

[TheDemonLord]

Assasinations, remote hijackings and other conspiracies are carried out by special forces, fucking around with roads is carried out by 'academics' in NZTA... no comparison really ;p

The Special Forces, however are still instructed by the Government that is infested with those same 'academics'

[pritch]

And if the department was asked to come up with an explanation they would likely say it was a "systemic failure". Acually no, it was complete idiocy.

[caspernz]

Assasinations, remote hijackings and other conspiracies are carried out by special forces, fucking around with roads is carried out by 'academics' in NZTA... no comparison really ;p

Oh I dunno Mr Ray, the funniest oxymoron in my book is Military Intelligence, you don't need to spend long in a green uniform to understand it...


The Special Forces, however are still instructed by the Government that is infested with those same 'academics'

And the Health & Safety worshipping has clouded the big picture...

[TheDemonLord]

And if the department was asked to come up with an explanation they would likely say it was a "systemic failure". Acually no, it was complete idiocy.

Aren't they the Same thing :msn-wink:

[Swoop]

The Special Forces, however are still instructed by the Government that is infested with those same 'academics'

The poor bastards are crippled with the OSHmonster. You should hear the frustrations emanating.

[Swoop]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/6/2/4/u/m/image.gallery.galleryLandscape.600x400.1624ls.png/1438125448204.jpg
Image left in place deliberately to emphasize the point.




As a road user, I would be keeping left and regarding the "central roadway" as some bizarre overtaking lane.
What retarded fuckwit even contemplated this stupidity!?


Stay in the left lane and RUN DOWN any lycra wearing retard infesting it.


Fucking stupidity at it's finest.

[5ive]

"Oh cool, a three lane highway!"

[Ocean1]

"Oh cool, a three lane highway!"

Used to be a road out Grafton way that had a suicide lane. Namely: you could use the middle one to overtake either way.

[FJRider]

You should come down and see the queues caused by the new roundabout abortion at Glenda Drive outside Queenstown. You would soon change your mind.

It is Queenstown. 95% of the drivers that use it are from "Out of Town" ... and 80% percent of those are from "Out of the Country" ... and do not know the NZ road (roundabout) rules. :shifty:


A large percentage of Kiwi drivers don't either ... :shutup:

[haydes55]

I just drove down Roto-O-Rangi rd this morning. Fucking joke. The cycle lane was wide enough for me to drive in. Not sure what signs were up when it was being trialed... But I would have driven in the cycle lane.

Also, the lane went about 300m like this, then back to normal road for 300m then back to another 300m of double cycle lane. Confusing as fuck, within 1km going from normal, to retarded, to normal, to retarded, to normal...
314278

[Moi]

Used to be a road out Grafton way that had a suicide lane. Namely: you could use the middle one to overtake either way.

IIRC the Great South Road had three lanes marked on it - in the old days... also the Pakuranga-Howick Highway and parts of the Great North Road...

Grafton - as in Grafton NSW?

The bigger issue with the trial, was not the trial per se, but the total lack of edge marking lines - sometimes called 'fog-lines' - along either side of the road in the trial area... but then again, it is never foggy in the Waikato... :facepalm:

[If you want the info and specs for road markings. have a look here (https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/road-traffic-standards/docs/rts-05.pdf)...]

[Tazz]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/6/2/4/u/m/image.gallery.galleryLandscape.600x400.1624ls.png/1438125448204.jpg

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003591619/2344517066_polls_i_like_turtles_4958_207342_answer _3_xlarge_xlarge.jpeg

[oldrider]

Used to be a road out Grafton way that had a suicide lane. Namely: you could use the middle one to overtake either way.

Part of the UN solution to world over-population control? :shifty: - Helen Clark trying to appear busy perhaps! :mellow:

[Ocean1]

IIRC the Great South Road had three lanes marked on it - in the old days... also the Pakuranga-Howick Highway and parts of the Great North Road...

Grafton - as in Grafton NSW?

The bigger issue with the trial, was not the trial per se, but the total lack of edge marking lines - sometimes called 'fog-lines' - along either side of the road in the trial area... but then again, it is never foggy in the Waikato... :facepalm:

[If you want the info and specs for road markings. have a look here (https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/road-traffic-standards/docs/rts-05.pdf)...]

Pakuranga-Howick used to switch the middle lane morning / afternoon I think.

Grafton as in Auckland. I think the road in question actually went under the Grafton Bridge, so you could select your mode of suicide without having to travel very far.

[R650R]

Pakuranga-Howick used to switch the middle lane morning / afternoon I think.

Grafton as in Auckland. I think the road in question actually went under the Grafton Bridge, so you could select your mode of suicide without having to travel very far.

Used to flat just up the road from there in Panmure, worked well but very heavily sign posted and well lit overhead signs like motorway.

Just realised in Hastings we have similar road to the above cycle fiasco. Awhile back Norton rd lost its centre line and had two cycle lanes painted down either side. In the middle is not quite enough tarmac for two cars but better than the above mess. Its in a bad neighbourhood so very little cyclist use anyway....

[R650R]

JFC they aint done fuking with us yet.... There going full retard on us again...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/71509114/nzta-to-retry-bungled-waikato-cycle-lane-trial

[caseye]

JFC they aint done fuking with us yet.... There going full retard on us again...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/71509114/nzta-to-retry-bungled-waikato-cycle-lane-trial


Time for the funny blokes in white coats I think.
To take away the council fools and engineers who think that push bikes should have equal rights on a road built for motor vehicles.
If they want 1 in 100,000 citizens to be able to safely use a stretch of road on a puch bike. Put a cycle lane on the left, use motorway barrier blocks to cordon it off from the actual road and get on with it.
Does the expense and very real possibility of more motor accident deaths justify doing this sort of half arsed dumb as pig shit not even well planned or thought through project.
Push bikes don't pay we do, FUCK THEM! This is what these tossers are going to hear as their heads are bashed in by angry confused and scared motorists.
To all you bikers who did come to the original Bikoi, thanks, to those that didn't, witness the power of a bunch of faggots in lycra who get in their cars and drive to meetings about taking over NZ's roads for their exclusive use, by simply talking to their neighbours and friends, you know, politicians and councillors.
They got organised, they got smart, they got the public to take notice by making huge noises when one of them got run over by a truck, car or bus, have we?
Ah, nope.

[Pixie]

If motorists/cyclists weren't all such a pack of ignorant cunts it wouldn't matter what width the road was
Hallelujah!
Cagers are such whiney cunts.It's always"it's not fair,I have to stop for red lights wah wah".
Cyclist don't bother me.I have sufficient skills to avoid hitting them in my car and on my bike and if I have to slow down for 5 seconds my world won't end.

[R650R]

Hallelujah!
Cagers are such whiney cunts.It's always"it's not fair,I have to stop for red lights wah wah".
Cyclist don't bother me.I have sufficient skills to avoid hitting them in my car and on my bike and if I have to slow down for 5 seconds my world won't end.

One day one of them will get the better of you with their antics, its their right to do the dumbest shit imaginable.
I was googling for fresh video after seeing some dumbarse activist cyclist stopped in the dark on one of our regions most dangerous bridges on Monday night, no lights and all. Bike in lane and leaning against rail and holding up some kind of camera filming traffic. I would have *555'd but left my phone at home going to training.
Anyway here's vid from awhile back of no less than a Doctor failing to give way to two cars and cycling straight into the path of what was then a 100km/h road. Part of a bigger wah wah about the regions roads for cyclists.
The activist on Monday night was stopped halfway across this bridge endangering other roadusers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIIts-2MnnA

[Mike.Gayner]

Push bikes don't pay we do, FUCK THEM!

I ride a bicycle. I also pay two motorcycle regos and two vehicle regos, as well as my share of income tax, GST and the rest of it. Every cyclist I know also has at least one vehicle, not to mention paying all the general taxes which make up the vast bulk of road funding.

[awa355]

Not a cyclist to be seen today.


http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/bike%201_1.jpg

[eldog]

there a lot of "look for Bikes" signs Te Awamutu/Cambridge way, never saw one myself - Was wondering what I would get if I saw one.

ya shoulda added an engine to the above pic, while no one was watching:corn:

[Swoop]

Not a cyclist to be seen today.
Yeah, I know. Had to get a penknife out to get the boney-bits and a small amount of lycra from out of my tread.

Dumped the body where nobody would notice though. Under a new "Koru" design flag!