A moment of clarity - speed and danger

[R650R]

While getting pissed off again at a cage stuffing up my attempt to pull safely into traffic due to his excessive speed it suddenly clicked about WHY speed is dangerous.
Equally as dangerous at same junction is cars going too slow that you end up waiting for, holding up and frustrating the traffic behind you.

Anyway speed is dangerous when its inconsistent with the other road users expectations and it occurred to me that is the real benefit of having traffic laws, is not just to reduce impact velocity but to create a consistant set of conditions for our minds to operate in a busy environment. Therefore the 4k tolerance is then justified IF its extended to include a MINIMUM speed for certain conditions, eg people only doing 35 in a 50 sightseeing instead of making proper progress.
This agrees with most health and safety doctrines which with all the red tape to one side are about creating a set way of doing work so you know where to expect co workers and hazards.

This also extends to other roading issues so I propose a new offence of Inconsistant Behaviour in Traffic Environments to be known as IBITE. There will be no speed limits just an unmeasured 85% percentile type approach.
This will also encompass poorly signed roadworks and roadworks speed limits where there is no work or danger.
A modern flexible approach like this will allow auto variable speed limits. Eg at 7.55am when all the 8am workers are running late they will all be free to speed and people will be expecting that.

[bogan]

Anyway speed is dangerous when its inconsistent with the other road users expectations

Yeh, cos fuck defensive driving, right?

[unstuck]

I blame truck drivers. Sure beats me having to own up to being a cock when driving.:headbang::headbang:

[Berries]

Eg at 7.55am when all the 8am workers are running late they will all be free to speed and people will be expecting that.
But think about the [school] children.

[mossy1200]

. Eg at 7.55am when all the 8am workers are running late they will all be free to speed and people will be expecting that.

You should be fined/taxed for running late for work.

I do think the speed differential between the fastest and slowest vehicles in multi lane situations creates huge issues. The fastest tend to weave and change lanes without warning and the slow travellers tend to create rolling road blocks everyone is trying to avoid.

[oldiebutagoody]

Similar to the KISS principle:

"YKK principle"............merge like a.........?????

[98tls]

You should be fined/taxed for running late for work.

I do think the speed differential between the fastest and slowest vehicles in multi lane situations creates huge issues. The fastest tend to weave and change lanes without warning and the slow travellers tend to create rolling road blocks everyone is trying to avoid.

Doesnt pose much of a problem in Germany where still in some multi lane situations 160 clicks is cruising and those travelling at a respectable speed manage to go about there business without hassle,every time theres some public service announcement nation wide :tugger:about some demented lunatic pulled over for 143kph whose life is effectively over and would have been better off a mass murderer sentence wise i wonder what those from places like Germany think of our funny little country and its views on speed.

[Moi]

Doesn't pose much of a problem in Germany...

I think it might have something to do with the standard of driving training there and the German belief that driving or riding requires both skill and thinking...

But, you're right... many Europeans would put the majority of NZ drivers and riders to shame... and before anyone quips in about those south of the Pyrenees... we'll ignore them for the moment...

[98tls]

I think it might have something to do with the standard of driving training there and the German belief that driving or riding requires both skill and thinking...

But, you're right... many Europeans would put the majority of NZ drivers and riders to shame... and before anyone quips in about those south of the Pyrenees... we'll ignore them for the moment...

Nail/head M,nice work.

[FJRider]

Doesnt pose much of a problem in Germany where still in some multi lane situations 160 clicks is cruising and those travelling at a respectable speed manage to go about there business without hassle,every time theres some public service announcement nation wide :tugger:about some demented lunatic pulled over for 143kph whose life is effectively over and would have been better off a mass murderer sentence wise i wonder what those from places like Germany think of our funny little country and its views on speed.

A majority of this country is still one lane in either direction on the open road. And seldom suitable for consistent high speed travel ... even most multi (twin) lane ones are not.

[Berries]

A majority of this country is still one lane in either direction on the open road. And seldom suitable for consistent high speed travel ... even most multi (twin) lane ones are not.
Yes, but you have an FJ1200.

[FJRider]

Yes, but you have an FJ1200.

And you may have in your possession ... a condom. It won't always be appropriate to use it for the purpose it was intended ... when you want to use it for that purpose ...

[Ulsterkiwi]

That's actually a pretty smart suggestion, even if it was laced with just a smidge of irony at the end :innocent:

I am not saying the suggestion would never work but it would certainly be heavily influenced by two factors

1. Road user knowledge and skills
2. The design of our roading network

I would make the following observations about those two variables (in no particular order of importance):

1. When the average road user in NZ can consistently demonstrate that they can negotiate a roundabout, merge with flowing traffic, use overtaking lanes, understand traffic light commands, corner without drifting over the centre line, travel at a sensible following distance and plan safe and efficient lane changes I think we might be making progress.

2. Our network as it stands is not conducive to consistent travel at speed. So long as we have the continued use of top dressing instead of actual resurfacing, turning right while still on the main carriage way of a two lane road, traffic joining main highways from perpendicular roads (from a standing start and no slipway), few urban areas bypassed by highways, turning left from highways without the assistance of slipways, the continued use of single lanes for what are designated State Highways and the enforcement of minor speed infractions over good lane discipline and following distances then I think we will continue to have problems.

[swarfie]

That's actually a pretty smart suggestion, even if it was laced with just a smidge of irony at the end :innocent:

I am not saying the suggestion would never work but it would certainly be heavily influenced by two factors

1. Road user knowledge and skills
2. The design of our roading network

I would make the following observations about those two variables (in no particular order of importance):

1. When the average road user in NZ can consistently demonstrate that they can negotiate a roundabout, merge with flowing traffic, use overtaking lanes, understand traffic light commands, corner without drifting over the centre line, travel at a sensible following distance and plan safe and efficient lane changes I think we might be making progress.

2. Our network as it stands is not conducive to consistent travel at speed. So long as we have the continued use of top dressing instead of actual resurfacing, turning right while still on the main carriage way of a two lane road, traffic joining main highways from perpendicular roads (from a standing start and no slipway), few urban areas bypassed by highways, turning left from highways without the assistance of slipways, the continued use of single lanes for what are designated State Highways and the enforcement of minor speed infractions over good lane discipline and following distances then I think we will continue to have problems.

Another Nail/Head situation...Well said that man.
The OP did have some good points but then shagged it up at the end IMO. At times we have had percentage knockout at street race meetings and it has worked well (if a little harsh on those that don't meet the speed criteria and get told they can't race that day). The popo certainly need to concentrate more on those holding up the traffic rather than jumping on those that break the limit by 10 or 15%...maybe they do but it needs to happen more. There's never one around when you need them...or so it seems.

[swbarnett]

to create a consistant set of conditions for our minds to operate in a busy environment.
You're dreamin' mate. Tell that to the weather.


This has to be a Troll!

[Moi]

That's actually a pretty smart suggestion, even if it was laced with just a smidge of irony at the end :innocent:

I am not saying the suggestion would never work but it would certainly be heavily influenced by two factors

1. Road user knowledge and skills
2. The design of our roading network

I would make the following observations about those two variables (in no particular order of importance):

1. When the average road user in NZ can consistently demonstrate that they can negotiate a roundabout, merge with flowing traffic, use overtaking lanes, understand traffic light commands, corner without drifting over the centre line, travel at a sensible following distance and plan safe and efficient lane changes I think we might be making progress.

2. Our network as it stands is not conducive to consistent travel at speed. So long as we have the continued use of top dressing instead of actual resurfacing, turning right while still on the main carriage way of a two lane road, traffic joining main highways from perpendicular roads (from a standing start and no slipway), few urban areas bypassed by highways, turning left from highways without the assistance of slipways, the continued use of single lanes for what are designated State Highways and the enforcement of minor speed infractions over good lane discipline and following distances then I think we will continue to have problems.

Point 1 needs to be said often - hit-nail-on-head statement...

[R650R]

But think about the [school] children.

Yes your right, too many of the little junior terrorists are driving now.... http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/67763418/south-auckland-thieves-getting-younger-and-younger

[R650R]

I think it might have something to do with the standard of driving training there and the German belief that driving or riding requires both skill and thinking...



And... the one good thing Hitler did, decent roads and motorways....

[R650R]

I do think the speed differential between the fastest and slowest vehicles in multi lane situations creates huge issues. The fastest tend to weave and change lanes without warning and the slow travellers tend to create rolling road blocks everyone is trying to avoid.

Yes good to see someone gets my angle here...

[R650R]

This has be be a Troll!

Nah I deleted that part, it was far to clever for here.... ;p

[swbarnett]

I do think the speed differential between the fastest and slowest vehicles in multi lane situations creates huge issues.
No, failing to take responsibility for one's own safety is what causes the issues.

[ellipsis]

...I had a lucid thought once...then it just dissipated...turns out it was only half lucidity combined with other shit...