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flyingcrocodile46
19th April 2015, 10:41
an•ar•chy

(ˈæn ər ki)

n. 1. a state of society without government or law.
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the absence or lack of government
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
4. Absence (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/absence#absence__3) of government and absolute (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/absolute#absolute__3) freedom (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/freedom#freedom__3) of the individual (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/individual#individual__11), regarded (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/regard#regard__3) as a political (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/political#political__3) ideal (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/ideal#ideal__9).

Anarchy

The ideal of anarchism is a society in which all individuals can do whatever they choose, except interfere with the ability of other individuals to do what they choose. This ideal is called anarchy, from the Greek anarchia, meaning absence of government.
Anarchists do not suppose that all people are altruistic, or wise, or good, or identical, or perfectible, or any romantic nonsense of that kind. They believe that a society without coercive institutions is feasible, within the repertoire of natural, imperfect, human behaviour.
Anarchists do not “lay down blueprints for the free society”. There are science-fiction stories and other fantasies in which anarchies are imagined, but they are not prescribed. Any society which does not include coercive institutions will meet the anarchist objective.
It seems clear, however, that every conceivable anarchy would need social pressure to dissuade people from acting coercively; and to prevent a person from acting coercively is to limit that person’s choices. Every society imposes limits, and there are those who argue, with the air of having an unanswerable argument, that this makes anarchism impossible.
But anarchy is not perfect freedom. It is only the absence of government, or coercive establishments. To show that perfect freedom is impossible is not to argue against anarchism, but simply to provide an instance of the general truth that nothing is perfect.
Of course, the feasibility of anarchy cannot be certainly proved. “Is anarchy practicable?”, is a hypothetical question, which cannot be answered for certain, unless and until anarchy exists. But the question, “Is anarchy worth striving for?”, is an ethical question, and to this every anarchist will certainly answer yes.


Our entire lives we have been taught to believe that society without government is impossible. As in the conversation above (or the Pierre-Joseph Proudhon quotation (http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1299574-qu-est-ce-que-la-propri-t-ou-recherche-sur-le-principe-du-droit-et-du) that it’s based on), many people can’t even comprehend the idea that someone can be against both Candidate A and Candidate B (and even Candidate C through Z!). “But…But…isn’t that…anarchy?” they ask, voice lowered and quavering lest someone overhear the pronouncement of the dangerous word.

Ah, yes, anarchism. A word soaked in blood and painted in flaming red letters in the imagination of the same public that has been taught that voting for their next ruler is their noblest and most sacred duty. This association between anarchy and violence is by no means new; even in 1929 the public’s automatic fright of the word itself was so strong that Russian-born anarchist philosopher Alexander Berkman felt he had to respond to it. That was the year he penned “Is Anarchism Violence (https://libcom.org/library/what-is-anarchism-alexander-berkman-19)?” in which he wrote:
https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Alexander_Berkman_001-237x300.jpg (https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Alexander_Berkman_001.jpg)Alexander Berkman

“Anarchism is the ideal of such a condition; of a society without force and compulsion, where all men shall be equals, and live in freedom, peace, and harmony.
“The word Anarchy comes from the Greek, meaning without force, without violence or government, because government is the very fountainhead of violence, constraint, and coercion.
“Anarchy therefore does not mean disorder and chaos, as you thought before. On the contrary, it is the very reverse of it; it means no government, which is freedom and liberty. Disorder is the child of authority and compulsion. Liberty is the mother of order.”

This is anarchism from the point of view of an anarchist: a society without compulsion where order is the natural outgrowth of freedom. Again, to those who have been taught that government is the fountainhead of law and order, it is almost incomprehensible that order (let alone peace and harmony) is to be achieved by the dissolution of government. And again, our indoctrination must be challenged directly.

“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.”

The overall sentiment of this passage will be appreciated by many of the readers of this column. The idea that these abuses are endemic to government itself, however, and not just examples of the abuses of tyrannical governments…well, that’s a harder pill to swallow.
But it needs to be understood that government itself, the very concept, is founded on injustice. Like a reverse Midas, everything it touches is spoiled by the fact that it comes into this world steeped in the original sin of its foundation, the logical contradictions that we have all been taught to ignore which form the heart of its self-justification. As Lysander Spooner (https://www.corbettreport.com/episode-255-shoulders-of-giants-lysander-spooner/) explains in his classic work, “No Treason (https://mises.org/library/no-treason-no-1)“:
“…[T]wo men have no more natural right to exercise any kind of authority over one than one has to exercise the same authority over two. A man’s natural rights are his own against the whole world; and any infringement of them is equally a crime whether committed by one man or by millions; whether committed by one man calling himself a robber (or by any other name indicating his true character) or by millions calling themselves a government.”

https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/uncle-sam-you-must-obey-222x300.jpeg (https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/uncle-sam-you-must-obey.jpeg)The issue, then, is not whether this or that government (or this or that president) is likely to treat its subjects any better or worse than another, but whether these “subjects” are really “subjects” at all. How, after all, did these governments come into existence in the first place? Where did their authority over the land between their (arbitrarily defined) borders originate? What right do they have to rule over these “subjects” and what makes the “subjects” beholden to their laws? The simple truth, of course–the secret, plainspoken truth that must never be uttered lest it bring down the foundations of our society–is that no would-be ruler, whether a single individual or a million, has any such authority over another.
This has been demonstrated in various ways by various writers over the centuries. In “No Treason,” Spooner himself famously destroys the usual bases for arguing the supremacy of the U.S. constitution over the “citizens” of the U.S. government. A more contemporary speaker on this subject who puts the argument in clear, plainspoken English is Larken Rose (https://www.corbettreport.com/?s=larken+rose), author of “The Most Dangerous Superstition (http://larkenrose.com/component/content/article/34-books/2019-the-most-dangerous-superstition.html).” He has articulated these ideas brilliantly in videos like “The Tiny Dot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs)” and “The Jones Plantation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb8Rj5xkDPk),” as well as in essays like “My Deprogramming (http://voluntaryist.com/howibecame/deprogramming.html#.VTEcZ6hAySN)” where he writes:
“By trying to reconcile contradictions in political beliefs, I proved to myself that ‘government’ can NEVER be legitimate. It can never have ‘authority.’ However necessary it supposedly is, and however noble the stated goal might be, I eventually realized that it is utterly impossible for anyone to acquire the right to rule others, even in a limited, ‘constitutional’ way.

“There are several ways to prove this, and each of them is astonishingly simple. For example, if a person cannot delegate a right he doesn’t have, then it is impossible for those in ‘government’ to have any rights that I do not personally have. (Where and how would they have acquired such super-human rights?) Furthermore, unless human beings can actually ALTER morality by mere decree, then all “legislation” is pointless and illegitimate. If one accepts the principle of non-aggression, then ‘government’ is logically impossible, because a ‘government’ without the right to tax, regulate, or legislate (which are all threats of aggression) is no ‘government’ at all.”

https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/statism-300x200.jpg (https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/statism.jpg)This leads, then, to a very simple and clear mission. Not one of voting in a better ruler, or even revolting against the current form of government in order to institute another, but of effecting the revolution of consciousness that is necessary for the subjects of oppression to realize they are not subjects at all, but free human beings under no obligation whatsoever to follow the dictates of these governmental structures. As Rose puts it:
I do not advocate abolishing ‘government’ any more than I advocate abolishing Santa Claus. I just want people to stop letting their perceptions and actions be so profoundly warped and perverted by something that DOES NOT EXIST, and never did. That is why I refer to the belief in ‘government’ and ‘authority’ as ‘The Most Dangerous Superstition.’ If people could give up that superstition, even if they did not otherwise become any more wise or compassionate, the state of society would drastically improve. I don’t pretend to have the ability to make anyone more virtuous, but by pointing out to them the contradictions in their own belief systems–the very same contradictions I struggled with for years–I hope to help some of them reclaim ownership of themselves, so they can start thinking and acting as rational, sentient beings, instead of as the well-trained livestock of malicious masters.”


It is not ‘government,’ after all, that is the bugbear of the people; it is people’s belief in the authority of whatever gang of criminals dons the mantle of that title. A man who believes his pronouncements to be laws is rightly called delusional; a man in the halls of “government” who believes the same is hailed as a “legislator.” A robber is rightly castigated for depriving people of their rightful possessions; a robber who proclaims himself a member of the “government” is lauded for his robberies. A murderer is rightly despised for depriving a single person of their right to life; a murderer wearing the uniform of the “government” is praised as a hero for spilling the blood of the enemy. Unravel the thread of this imaginary authority and you unravel the thread of statism.
According to the statist, people are inherently deceitful and wicked, and thus some of those people should be allowed to rule over others to stop them from being deceitful and wicked to each other. Also, people tend to rob or kill others, so some people should be given the authority to rob and kill to stop those others from robbing and killing each other.
The inherent illogic of this position was described perhaps most simply by Edward Abbey (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/edwardabbe393644.html):
“Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others.”

https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/marchoftyranny-300x231.jpg (https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/marchoftyranny.jpg)Which brings us back to the beginning. The idea that any individual or group of individuals has a legitimately granted authority over any other individual or group against that group’s will–i.e. government–is a delusion, and a dangerous one at that. The idea that voting for Candidate B because the way in which he proposes to rule over you is more palatable than Candidate A’s plan for ruling over you fundamentally misses the point. Even in the best case scenario, the one in which you vote for Candidate B and he actually gets into office (and even assuming the presidency was an actual position of authority and not the bought-and-paid-for puppet of the banksters and their corporate cronies), you are still a slave. The fact that you put the chains around your own neck willingly does not change the nature of the relationship.
In Spooner’s words:
“The principle that the majority have a right to rule the minority practically resolves all government into a mere contest between two bodies of men, as to which of them shall be masters and which of them slaves: a contest, that — however bloody — can never, in the nature of things, be finally closed so long as man refuses to be a slave.”

This is what the sElection cycle is ultimately about: who will be masters and who will be slaves. And this is why the ultimate power of the individual is in refusing to be a slave and refusing to accept the notion that voting in a kinder slavemaster is the answer to the abuses he suffers.
Voting for Candidate B is not the solution. Our true power lies in non-compliance with the dictates of would-be authority (http://www.constitution.org/la_boetie/serv_vol.htm) and the best possible election would be the one in which no one voted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQiM5WsrFaI).

TheDemonLord
19th April 2015, 10:56
But I already knew that Anarachy is a system defined by a lack of Central governance or political structure.....

So your thread title is wrong.

FWIW - Anarachy would be the perfect political system except for one problem:

People are cunts.

swbarnett
19th April 2015, 11:06
to prevent a person from acting coercively is to limit that person’s choices
While this is true it is only limiting the choice of one person to limit the choice of another and, therefore, falls perfectly within the definition of anarchy that you put forward.

Kind of like the premise put forward by A. C. Grayling that all things must be tolerated except intolerance.

yokel
19th April 2015, 11:16
who is qualified to rule or govern us? no fucking one.

it's better to have a governing set of principles like say the 10 commandments or a constitution that we all can agree on.

live your life by principles, not a law abiding do what your told cock sucker.

nodrog
19th April 2015, 11:26
what if you don't like Harleys?

Big Dog
19th April 2015, 11:41
Seriously: first post TL:DR.
Quite repetitive.

Upshot, if you had a collective of people who chose to live outside of a society with a government the irony is there is always a governing body. Be it a single dictator or messiah or be it a group of elders.
The irony being those groups most anti government are usually lead by by people who demand an even higher level of devotion.

Witness 1% clubs, Davidian sects, survivalists etc.
More often than not founded by people who ultimately want to be at the top of the totem pole.




Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

swbarnett
19th April 2015, 11:44
a governing set of principles like say the 10 commandments or a constitution that we all can agree on.
Much better to go with only one - Do whatever you damn well like as long as you don't interfere with another's right to do the same.

Kickaha
19th April 2015, 11:49
that we all can agree on
Ever considered a career in comedy because you seem to be well on the way

ellipsis
19th April 2015, 11:51
Seriously: first post TL:DR.
Quite repetitive.

Upshot, if you had a collective of people who chose to live outside of a society with a government the irony is there is always a governing body. Be it a single dictator or messiah or be it a group of elders.
The irony being those groups most anti government are usually lead by by people who demand an even higher level of devotion.

Witness 1% clubs, Davidian sects, survivalists etc.
More often than not founded by people who ultimately want to be at the top of the totem pole.




Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.


...crossed over into the land of cults or religion already...not really relevant...

bogan
19th April 2015, 11:54
what if you don't like Harleys?

Vin Diesel made a doco about it, dirt-bikes can do in a pinch; Rammstein however, is mandatory...

flyingcrocodile46
19th April 2015, 12:03
Vin Diesel made a doco about it, dirt-bikes can do in a pinch; Rammstein however, is mandatory...

Possibly the only thing you have posted that I can unreservedly agree with. :2thumbsup BANG BANG

FJRider
19th April 2015, 13:27
In a state of Anarchy ...


Overseas tourist drivers in our country ... would be allowed to continue killing and maiming other road users ...



Be careful for what you wish for ...

oldrider
19th April 2015, 13:48
Order out of chaos - wars booms and busts - let me control the finances of the world I care not who makes the laws - who controls finance? - psychopaths! :yes:

FJRider
19th April 2015, 14:04
who controls finance? - psychopaths! :yes:

Could there ever BE control in a state of Anarchy ... A contradiction in terms I would have thought ...

swbarnett
19th April 2015, 14:42
Could there ever BE control in a state of Anarchy ... A contradiction in terms I would have thought ...
Yes and no. Anarchy rejects coercive control but allows for individual control of oneself according to your principles.

If it were not for anarchy you and the rest of us would not exist. This is the system by which a collection of cells can form a cohesive colony that is seen from outside as a living being.

avgas
19th April 2015, 15:05
Actually anarchy and anarchist are not one and the same. Anarchists have devolved from their predecessors to simply people who say "fuck the system".
Fucking the system is exactly what has gotten us into this mess in the first place. Stupid people not happy with one leader ask for dozens of them, then when that dozen doesn't seem right they ask for more local leaders, and when that doesn't seem right they ask for the system to help all.


Fact of the matter. Anarchism is the simple law that you are your own destiny and its not truly felt until you remove the government and people have to live with the decisions they have made. In the case of the modern anarchist, their lack of decision-making-skills will become far more obvious.
I hope that day comes. For both sides of the stupid argument.

R650R
19th April 2015, 15:05
Fuck I could not follow the order to read all that.... is that anarchy???
Is it coming soon? Will I need my own pitchfork or will they be provided....

There are a lot of common terms that have other widely accepted meanings outside of their grammatical definitions....

swbarnett
19th April 2015, 15:07
Is it coming soon?
It's already here. Been on the internet lately?

FJRider
19th April 2015, 15:21
Yes and no. Anarchy rejects coercive control but allows for individual control of oneself according to your principles.



And those with no principles ... ??? <_<


Their rights are more important than everybody else ... right .. ??

swbarnett
19th April 2015, 15:32
And those with no principles ... ??? <_<


Their rights are more important than everybody else ... right .. ??
Not at all. Everyone's rights are equally important. As long as those with no principles don't stop anyone else living by theirs then I don't see a problem.

As I said, do what you like as long as you don't impede anyone else doing likewise.

FJRider
19th April 2015, 15:47
... As long as those with no principles don't ...

And if they did .. ??? :scratch:

What then .. ??

Akzle
19th April 2015, 17:21
In a state of Anarchy ...


Overseas tourist drivers in our country ... would be allowed to continue killing and maiming other road users ...



Be careful for what you wish for ...
i don't think you understood the question.

And if they did .. ??? :scratch:

What then .. ??

then i exercise my right to fuck their day up (/stop them fucking mine up) with ma shawt gurn hurr hurr.

mashman
19th April 2015, 18:07
Belgium's world record of anarchy (http://english.pravda.ru/world/europe/18-02-2011/116939-belgium_anarchy-0/)... it's a corporate wet dream ironically.

R650R
19th April 2015, 18:57
It's already here. Been on the internet lately?

The internet is very ordered actually. Even forums are more strongly policed than real world discussions, you can even have an Orwellian moment and delete comments and identities, very east Germany.....

FJRider
19th April 2015, 19:04
... then i exercise my right to fuck their day up (/stop them fucking mine up) with ma shawt gurn hurr hurr.

My rights are more important than yours ... so ... :finger:

Swoop
19th April 2015, 19:37
Ever considered a career in comedy because you seem to be well on the way
Absolutely impossible.
Comedy clubs operate after dark and late into the night.


His Mummy forbids him to stay up late.

swbarnett
19th April 2015, 21:04
And if they did .. ??? :scratch:

What then .. ??
Then it all breaks down of course. I haven't really thought about this enough to sort that bit out yet.

swbarnett
19th April 2015, 21:06
The internet is very ordered actually. Even forums are more strongly policed than real world discussions, you can even have an Orwellian moment and delete comments and identities, very east Germany.....
A forum may be controlled but the internet is still anarchic.

FJRider
19th April 2015, 21:13
A forum may be controlled but the internet is still anarchic.

There are still rules and responses ...and basic forms of censure.

Site rules may vary between sites ... but there is always someone that controls what is presented ... and remain visible. And/or ... who sees it.

Ocean1
19th April 2015, 21:37
No, anarchy is exactly what I think it is.

swbarnett
19th April 2015, 21:44
There are still rules and responses ...and basic forms of censure.
Not on the internet. You're talking about social media. Although that is on the internet it is not the same thing.


Site rules may vary between sites ... but there is always someone that controls what is presented ... and remain visible. And/or ... who sees it.
Again, this is social media. There's nothing stopping you creating your own web site (or whatever else you want to put on the internet).

Virago
19th April 2015, 22:05
...There's nothing stopping you creating your own web site (or whatever else you want to put on the internet).

Try creating a child porn site and see what happens. The internet is not without rules and controls.

Berries
19th April 2015, 23:07
Yes it is.

Big Dog
20th April 2015, 07:52
While the internet appears anarchic it it impossible to present content without following the rules needed to comply with thousands of rules.
IP rules, code, local laws, international laws, registration, all loosely governed by a series of standards committees so that you can see "Who is impaling Sarah Palin" without accidentally loading "Sesame Street" and vice versa.
Take away those governing bodies and see what happens.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

TheDemonLord
20th April 2015, 08:08
Try creating a child porn site and see what happens. The internet is not without rules and controls.

It is a Sad fact that in Data Havens, such sites are allowed to exist.

FWIW - generally the way that such sites are dealt with is through the 'importation' of the illicit material by the users of the site to their PCs (and so into the Jurisdiction of the country they reside in), then going after the person who hosts the site (who resides in a country) and going after them.

If we are going to discuss the Internet and its concept as an Anarchy - then I vote the thread be split - I have much to say on this topic (it is one near and dear to me)

swbarnett
20th April 2015, 13:25
Try creating a child porn site and see what happens. The internet is not without rules and controls.
Depends on which country the server is in.

swbarnett
20th April 2015, 13:27
Take away those governing bodies and see what happens.
I never said the internet wasn't governed. Just not in any way that controls what you can present to the world.

Big Dog
21st April 2015, 00:53
I suspect the owners of thepiratebay.com and Kim Dotcom may disagree with you.

Or the solo mum that got done for sharing Rihanna songs last year.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

swbarnett
21st April 2015, 16:55
I suspect the owners of thepiratebay.com and Kim Dotcom may disagree with you.

Or the solo mum that got done for sharing Rihanna songs last year.
This is not a function of the internet. It's a function of standard copyright laws. The internet is only the medium.

Big Dog
21st April 2015, 18:47
This is not a function of the internet. It's a function of standard copyright laws. The internet is only the medium.
This is still coersive government.

Sure there is no one government that oversees the whole internet, but each and every facet is governed.
The existence of child porn sites is not an example of a lack of governance any more than a gang selling meth is proof of a lack of government in NZ.
The Dark Net is no different to any other organised crime syndicate except that most participants have never met their contemporaries and would not know them by name or on sight.

If I start putting up hate speach on a blog I can expect most hosts to reconsider my custom unless I self host.
IF I start advocating violence I can expect to be scritinised by my government.

We have a degree of freedom of expression but there are boundaries to what can be said by who and to whom before you find your self on the loud end of a firearm at dawn.

Here in NZ we have quite a lot of freedom to say what we want without fear of reproach other internet users are not so lucky. That does not in itself meant there is no coercive government here, just that it chooses to flex its muscles infrequently.

TheDemonLord
22nd April 2015, 09:12
This is still coersive government.

Sure there is no one government that oversees the whole internet, but each and every facet is governed.
The existence of child porn sites is not an example of a lack of governance any more than a gang selling meth is proof of a lack of government in NZ.
The Dark Net is no different to any other organised crime syndicate except that most participants have never met their contemporaries and would not know them by name or on sight.

If I start putting up hate speach on a blog I can expect most hosts to reconsider my custom unless I self host.
IF I start advocating violence I can expect to be scritinised by my government.

We have a degree of freedom of expression but there are boundaries to what can be said by who and to whom before you find your self on the loud end of a firearm at dawn.

Here in NZ we have quite a lot of freedom to say what we want without fear of reproach other internet users are not so lucky. That does not in itself meant there is no coercive government here, just that it chooses to flex its muscles infrequently.

Yeah.... Nah...

Think of the Internet like the open ocean - no one country can enforce their laws over the open ocean - however countries do have territorial waters where they can enforce laws. A country can also enforce laws over Physical equipment that is located within its borders - but that is not the same as enforcing law over the internet. The closest thing to governance that the Internet has is the IETF - however they only concern themselves with writing standards for Protocols (including the April Fool's day RFC) and maintaining Net-Neutrality (which is that all traffic is treated equally by the internet)

SPman
24th April 2015, 02:46
Anarchy is the lack of hierachy - to talk of anarchic rules, or governments is rather beside the point. Governments, or control of any kind is hierachical. An official organisation of anarchists, is, by it's nature, not anarchy! Anarchy is about mutual cooperation and works very well in nature.

Peter Kropotkin was perhaps one of the major subscribers to anarchism as a way of life and wrote many articles and books on the principle at the turn of the 20th century.
(We must shed the old stereotype of anarchists as bearded bomb throwers furtively stalking about city streets at night. Kropotkin was a genial man, almost saintly according to some, who promoted a vision of small communities setting their own standards by consensus for the benefit of all, thereby eliminating the need for most functions of a central government.) - Stephen Jay Gould https://www.marxists.org/subject/science/essays/kropotkin.htm

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/kropotkin-peter/

Dmitri Orlov condenses a lot of Kropotkin's thinking on anarchy in "The Five Stages Of Collapse".

flyingcrocodile46
24th April 2015, 16:08
Anarchy is the lack of hierachy - to talk of anarchic rules, or governments is rather beside the point. Governments, or control of any kind is hierachical. An official organisation of anarchists, is, by it's nature, not anarchy! Anarchy is about mutual cooperation and works very well in nature.



Exactly right. It is simply a lack of externally regulated order. Lack of externally regulated order allows the maximum efficiency of spontaneous order to occur. A good explanation of how this occurs is talked about in this video. Surprisingly, the most intense and potentially chaotic traffic congestion is where its best effect are well demonstrated. See the video for a more detailed explanation then think of those crazy Asians intersections where anarchy rules and ... where's the chaos?


https://youtu.be/Vbb2_Yq0-Po

sidecar bob
24th April 2015, 20:16
Exactly right. It is simply a lack of externally regulated order. Lack of externally regulated order allows the maximum efficiency of spontaneous order to occur. A good explanation of how this occurs is talked about in this video. Surprisingly, the most intense and potentially chaotic traffic congestion is where its best effect are well demonstrated. See the video for a more detailed explanation then think of those crazy Asians intersections where anarchy rules and ... where's the chaos?


https://youtu.be/Vbb2_Yq0-Po

You're a fuckin tard wasting you're life dreaming of fanciful shit that will never work or happen in real life. Why don't you concentrate on things that are worth the time & mind space? It would be more beneficial to you & the rest of the world at large.

mashman
24th April 2015, 21:44
You're a fuckin tard wasting you're life dreaming of fanciful shit that will never work or happen in real life. Why don't you concentrate on things that are worth the time & mind space? It would be more beneficial to you & the rest of the world at large.

:killingme... I believe what was provided shows that it's already working and it is indeed happening in real life. You should concentrate on getting your head removed from your arse. If you club in with ocean and oscar you guys could probably get a decent discount :D

sidecar bob
24th April 2015, 22:02
:killingme... I believe what was provided shows that it's already working and it is indeed happening in real life. You should concentrate on getting your head removed from your arse. If you club in with ocean and oscar you guys could probably get a decent discount :D

I believe what was provided is possibly the biggest pile of shit ever posted on this forum, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

mashman
24th April 2015, 22:10
I believe what was provided is possibly the biggest pile of shit ever posted on this forum, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Funny way to describe something that you now know works in real life. Ok.

bogan
24th April 2015, 22:41
I believe what was provided is possibly the biggest pile of shit ever posted on this forum, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Over 50% of that vid was spend looking up some opinionated twat's nostril. Funnily enough, traffic rules could also be used as an example of how order naturally comes from anarchy. I fail to see the logic in trying to force it back the other way :scratch:

sidecar bob
25th April 2015, 07:11
Funny way to describe something that you now know works in real life. Ok.

It doesn't fuckin work. I gather that the idea of anarchy is that you can do whatever the fuck you Like, except for stopping others from doing whatever the fuck they like.
Well I'm coming over to your place to screw your misus & take your bike & apparently there's fuck all you can do to stop me. Does that sound like a system that works to you?

Gadget1
25th April 2015, 08:56
Dawn service disrupted:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11438510

Gadget1
25th April 2015, 08:59
No, anarchy is exactly what I think it is.



Yes, it's very subjective.

mashman
25th April 2015, 09:16
It doesn't fuckin work. I gather that the idea of anarchy is that you can do whatever the fuck you Like, except for stopping others from doing whatever the fuck they like.
Well I'm coming over to your place to screw your misus & take your bike & apparently there's fuck all you can do to stop me. Does that sound like a system that works to you?

Oh I see, you meant it in the wider context and not the traffic light thing? Either way the same can be said of anarchy. Give people the chance to be decent human beings and they will. You don't believe that, bah humbug :finger:

You're more than welcome to come around, but you better be devastatingly handsome or the missus will just laugh at you. That there are laws in place do not stop that from happening :facepalm:. Need a tiny prick to pop your precious bubble? Guess what I'm about to say.

sidecar bob
25th April 2015, 09:26
Give people the chance to be decent human beings and they will. You don't believe that, bah humbug

No, I really don't believe that. Removing rules & enforcement will make everyone suddenly behave?
That is a truly delusional notion. People already have the opportunity to be decent human beings regardless of anything.

mashman
25th April 2015, 09:30
No, I really don't believe that. Removing rules & enforcement will make everyone suddenly behave?
That is a truly delusional notion. People already have the opportunity to be decent human beings regardless of anything.

Yes, it will. Given that the vast majority of us actually give a shit. Why would I believe otherwise?
Sounds like you need to put your hands in your trouser and............ pop. Humans, even the really bad ones, are good 99% of the time. Circumstance brings out their inner cunt! Lack of "something", leaves them as a cunt, but only 1% of the time. Even politicians :shit:

sidecar bob
25th April 2015, 10:33
Everyone has the right to believe anything they want & everyone else has the right to find it fucking ridiculous.
For example, Do you believe that talking to an imaginary friend will make you a better person?
A lot of people do, I find the notion to be preposterous.

Akzle
25th April 2015, 11:10
It doesn't fuckin work. I gather that the idea of anarchy is that you can do whatever the fuck you Like, except for stopping others from doing whatever the fuck they like.
Well I'm coming over to your place to screw your misus & take your bike & apparently there's fuck all you can do to stop me. Does that sound like a system that works to you?
the way i live/ phrase it, is that I claim the right to do whatever the fuck i want, with the responsibility to not fuck up anyone else's day.

i don't think you've comprehended the original premise.


You're more than welcome to come around, but you better be devastatingly handsome or the missus will just laugh at you.

'the fuck you get lucky then??? :bleh:

flyingcrocodile46
25th April 2015, 11:11
Everyone has the right to believe anything they want & everyone else has the right to find it fucking ridiculous.
For example, Do you believe that talking to an imaginary friend will make you a better person?
A lot of people do, I find the notion to be preposterous.

Might that be a mechanism that some people might use as a form of introspective reflection that helps them find balance of perspective? Maybe for some it is a way of putting themselves in the shoes of another in an attempt to gain a wider perspective. That might be a foreign concept for you and a good starting point for some personal development?


Another good illustration in this 16 minute documentary which serves to show the folly of the opposite of anarchy. A very well researched and documented analysis of the changes in education regulation and expenditure and the diminishing returns. It also looks into the insidious motives behind the regulation and highlight the direct threat to our development and welfare.


https://youtu.be/d2Lz6lv9crA

mashman
25th April 2015, 11:33
the way i live/ phrase it, is that I claim the right to do whatever the fuck i want, with the responsibility to not fuck up anyone else's day.

i don't think you've comprehended the original premise.

It's not how we're trained to be.


'the fuck you get lucky then??? :bleh:

:killingme... I never said I was handsome, but I doubt the missus would be too happy at a stranger turning up to fuck her. I drugged her and Derren Brown'd her, so she knows no different.

mashman
25th April 2015, 11:37
Everyone has the right to believe anything they want & everyone else has the right to find it fucking ridiculous.
For example, Do you believe that talking to an imaginary friend will make you a better person?
A lot of people do, I find the notion to be preposterous.

True. Doesn't mean that 1 version should be imposed on another and given that there are laws, it certainly looks to be that way. So it sounds more like hypocrisy :shifty:
If it does the person good, then yes. If it doesn't, then no.
Then you care more about the reason for the person being happy than the fact that they're happy. I reckon that's where we're differing?

mashman
25th April 2015, 12:32
Dawn service disrupted:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11438510

And as a sign of respect to someone's loss at football matches, fans have started to clap instead of stand in silence. Could it have been a sign of respect? Or was it just to piss people off? I'll go for the former and see it as a shame that people feel that they must decry the way another respects the dead. It's ironic given that those being celebrated fought for such freedoms to be had.

swbarnett
25th April 2015, 12:37
You're a fuckin tard wasting you're life dreaming of fanciful shit that will never work or happen in real life. Why don't you concentrate on things that are worth the time & mind space? It would be more beneficial to you & the rest of the world at large.
If one person want's to think about it then it's "worth the time & mind space". For every idea that comes to fruition there will be thousands if not millions that come to nothing. Without thinking about "fanciful shit that will never work or happen in real life" the shit that will work would never have been thought of.

Besides, no-one will ever know if a thought falls into the category of "fanciful shit that will never work or happen in real life" until it's properly processed using some "time & mind space".

Gadget1
25th April 2015, 15:14
And as a sign of respect to someone's loss at football matches, fans have started to clap instead of stand in silence. Could it have been a sign of respect? Or was it just to piss people off? I'll go for the former and see it as a shame that people feel that they must decry the way another respects the dead. It's ironic given that those being celebrated fought for such freedoms to be had.


If they were for instance, Patriots motorcycle club members, I might expect something like engine revving to be a mark of respect but not the way they did it.

mashman
25th April 2015, 19:13
If they were for instance, Patriots motorcycle club members, I might expect something like engine revving to be a mark of respect but not the way they did it.

Fair enough.

SPman
28th April 2015, 19:06
Funnily enough, traffic rules could also be used as an example of how order naturally comes from anarchy. I fail to see the logic in trying to force it back the other way :scratch: So - you see anarchy as a lack of order, when, the order that follows is the result of anarchy. Anarchy is a lack of heirachy and an abundance of mutual cooperation - most of the animal kingdom works in a state of anarchy, and it's been getting along just fine - except when heirachical humans turn up on the scene. Not really strong on mutual cooperation, are we humans.......

bogan
28th April 2015, 19:11
So - you see anarchy as a lack of order, when, the order that follows is the result of anarchy. Anarchy is a lack of heirachy and an abundance of mutual cooperation - most of the animal kingdom works in a state of anarchy, and it's been getting along just fine - except when heirachical humans turn up on the scene. Not really strong on mutual cooperation, are we humans.......

Yet, the order that is, you see as not a result of the anarchy that was?

As for the animal kingdom, have you not seen all the murder and torture that goes on there? they have no bikes either, so if you want to log off and go bush, don't let us civilised folk stop ya ;)

oldrider
28th April 2015, 19:20
So - you see anarchy as a lack of order, when, the order that follows is the result of anarchy. Anarchy is a lack of heirachy and an abundance of mutual cooperation - most of the animal kingdom works in a state of anarchy, and it's been getting along just fine - except when heirachical humans turn up on the scene. Not really strong on mutual cooperation, are we humans.......

So - you see anarchy as a lack of order = Chaos - a major tool of the world federal reserve! - :shifty: - make war not love! :2guns: