Yet another ATGATT thread

[rastuscat]

Yup, gotta get this one off my chest.

Finished work yesterday, heading home on the troll bike.

Left the motorway at Kaiapoi, and who passed me on overbridge at the top of the the offramp but a plonker on a Harley. Helmet, t-shirt, shorts, trainers. What's worse, his 14 year old daughter was on the pillion pad, dressed similarly.

Apparently it was okay, as he'd just washed the bike (it was spotless) and he was only just drying it out. He wasn't out on a "real" ride.

I gave him the "You make my ACC levies so high" speech, but really, I felt like beating him with a frozen fish. Honestly, what makes us think we are so fecking bulletproof.

Rant concludes.

And just to lighten up the subject, here's a picture of a rabbit with a pikelet on it's head.

310891

[Grubber]

He was heading for motorway wasn't he? Real ride would be what then?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Kickaha]

I gave him the "You make my ACC levies so high" speech
If you gave that speech to me I'd tell you to fuck off, it makes no difference what anyone wears to ACC levies unless they crash

[sil3nt]

He isn't the reason the levies are high. Its the people that keep crashing that are doing that.

Sounds like he was riding legally and you pulled him over for no reason.







:whistle:

[Berries]

If you gave that speech to me I'd tell you to fuck off, it makes no difference what anyone wears to ACC levies unless they crash
I probably wouldn't use the same words but agree entirely.

Any chance we can all agree on what All The Gear actually means? Can we fuck, so all ATGATT threads are pointless from the start.

[Katman]

If you gave that speech to me I'd tell you to fuck off, it makes no difference what anyone wears to ACC levies unless they crash


I probably wouldn't use the same words but agree entirely.


I'd use exactly the same words.

[swbarnett]

I gave him the "You make my ACC levies so high" speech, but really, I felt like beating him with a frozen fish. Honestly, what makes us think we are so fecking bulletproof.
:facepalm:

WHY??? Yes, you have the legal right to stop anybody for anything but this has all the hallmarks of a religious zealot. This rider was doing everything legally and, by the sounds of it, was not riding like a nutter and yet you feel you have the right to lecture them on a point of philosophy. This is not within your brief as a public servant.

[R650R]

That's nothing compared to what I saw earlier in week...

Straight from the "Its my right to endanger myself" road cycling community comes backpack baby.... but it wasn't even a proper harness or anything.
This tool had his (I assume) 2-3? year old daughter piggybacking him with a small back pack worn by the cyclist the only token restraint at stopping her from falling. He was pedalling a good 30 clicks or so on a busy arterial route full of heavy trucks. If he happened to crash his weight would crush her to death on impact. Was tempted to phone plod but no real distinguishing features to ID offender...

[jim.cox]

Go check your manual of police procedures.

A patronising lecture from a holier than thou cunt with a blue gang patch is NOT a legal reason to stop someone going about their business

And you wonder why no one likes you coppers.

Its called freedom. You might not like it. But it is important to some of us.

[rastuscat]

Go check your manual of police procedures.

A patronising lecture from a holier than thou cunt with a blue gang patch is NOT a legal reason to stop someone going about their business

And you wonder why no one likes you coppers.

Its called freedom. You might not like it. But it is important to some of us.

Hmmmm, seems I've stirred up a hornets nest.

I'm tempted to delete the thread, as I'm clearly in the wrong.

Before I do that, Google "degloving injuries" for me. Is that really a personal choice?

And given that we all bang on about how everything is someone elses fault, how about we start to protect ourselves against those nutbars trying to harm us?

[rastuscat]

Go check your manual of police procedures.

A patronising lecture from a holier than thou cunt with a blue gang patch is NOT a legal reason to stop someone going about their business

And you wonder why no one likes you coppers.

Its called freedom. You might not like it. But it is important to some of us.

Thanks for the lovely response, BTW.

[rastuscat]

:facepalm:

WHY??? Yes, you have the legal right to stop anybody for anything but this has all the hallmarks of a religious zealot. This rider was doing everything legally and, by the sounds of it, was not riding like a nutter and yet you feel you have the right to lecture them on a point of philosophy. This is not within your brief as a public servant.

So on here we get bagged for doing nothing but write tickets, yet I'm now being bagged for trying to do something different.

No fecking wonder I'm moving on.

[swbarnett]

Google "degloving injuries" for me. Is that really a personal choice?
You're clearly confused about the difference between riding and crashing. They are NOT one in the same.


And given that we all bang on about how everything is someone elses fault,
Speak for yourself. I'm alive today because I take responsibility for my own safety. Irrespective of what others do.

[sugilite]

It is all about perception. I suspect that rastus has witnessed many a bad injury that could of been avoided by wearing the right gear. See enough of that sort of thing, why not try and make a difference? Who is not to say the guy did not go home and upon reflection think "maybe that copper was right".
Not being on a "real ride" does not turn the road into marshmallow if one has a real crash.

[swbarnett]

So on here we get bagged for doing nothing but write tickets, yet I'm now being bagged for trying to do something different.

No fecking wonder I'm moving on.
It would be different if you were actually targeting dangerous riding practices (assuming we agree on what those are) and not harping on about how bad it is for us to have the freedom to choose how to keep our skin where it belongs.

But then I'm of the "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" school of thought so I'd rather you and the rest of the safety zealots just shut up (on the road that is, say what you like online) until after the fact when you actually have some evidence that what you don't like might actually have been a bad idea.

[Moi]

Oh dear... you'll get blamed and lambasted whether you do something or do nothing... no matter what you do or don't do, it's wrong.

For what it's worth - and probably according to many here, not much more than a penny-farthing - I think you did the correct thing.

True the rider and pillion were both wearing helmets, and that is all that is required by law, however being stopped and told politely [cause I'm sure you were polite but firm - just like our mothers could be] that wearing more appropriate gear would be a good thing to do... cause if some dumb-witted motorist hit you as you are presently dressed you and your pillion would be in a bad way. Perhaps a reference to the ad on TV for smoke alarms - if something happened to your daughter how would you feel?

Cheers and thanks for caring.

[Now for the all the vitriol that will descend upon me...]

[Laava]

Why does the rabbit not eat the pikelet? Is it gluten free and made with rice milk?

[bogan]

Hmmmm, seems I've stirred up a hornets nest.

I'm tempted to delete the thread, as I'm clearly in the wrong.

Before I do that, Google "degloving injuries" for me. Is that really a personal choice?

And given that we all bang on about how everything is someone elses fault, how about we start to protect ourselves against those nutbars trying to harm us?

If that is your thinking, go google 'motorcycle injuries' and fuck right off.

cunt...


donuts...

[swbarnett]

being stopped and told politely that wearing more appropriate gear would be a good thing to do...
OK. Let's say for argument's sake that I make the conscious decision to leave the leather jacket, boots, gloves etc. at home and ride from Auckland to Wellington wearing just a helmet (and enough to not run foul of the public nudity laws). Having taken this decision I am fully aware that, should I crash, I'll be in a world of hurt. Therefore I ride in a manner that makes this extremely unlikely (which I always do anyway). The remaining risk is something that I am well aware of and prepared to take. Now, this trip can easily be done in one day. Except for the case where every cop that sees me pulls me over to give me a "polite" lecture. How is this not harassment?

[FJRider]

... And just to lighten up the subject, here's a picture of a rabbit with a pikelet on it's head.



It's all a matter of perspective ...


It could be a pikelet with a rabbit on it's arse ...

[Madness]

Are we certain it's not a guinea pig?

[cheshirecat]

Here's how to do it
Yup, gotta get this one off my chest.

I felt like beating him with a frozen fish.

Rant concludes.

And just to lighten up the subject, here's a picture of a rabbit with a pikelet on it's head.

310891
https://youtu.be/lefP0_ZM-Lw

[Kickaha]

I probably wouldn't use the same words but agree entirely.
I'd buy him a donut afterwards

And you wonder why no one likes you coppers..
I like him, he's a good cunt, not sure about that Scumdog though :finger:

[Ocean1]

It is all about perception. I suspect that rastus has witnessed many a bad injury that could of been avoided by wearing the right gear. See enough of that sort of thing, why not try and make a difference? Who is not to say the guy did not go home and upon reflection think "maybe that copper was right".
Not being on a "real ride" does not turn the road into marshmallow if one has a real crash.

'Er indoors is an ex ED nurse. Same thing, exposure colours perception, I did eventually get her on a bike but it took 30 years.

But here's the thing, it works the other way too: nil to minimal exposure for most riders, especially new ones makes the risk seem far, far away.

Maybe we could do with a bit of a correction in that department. P'raps the constabulary could take a leaf out of the tobacco industry regulations and festoon their troll cars with anatomically correct pictures of all of this routine carnage.

[Erelyes]

I probably wouldn't use the same words but agree entirely.

Any chance we can all agree on what All The Gear actually means? Can we fuck, so all ATGATT threads are pointless from the start.

Sure. Set up a poll, ask 'does all the gear include:' and we can sort it out in a lovely democratic 'fashion'.

[Akzle]

If you gave that speech to me I'd tell you to fuck off,

... and then YOU would have "failed the attitude test" and come under more scrutiny :facepalm:

FTP.

[Akzle]

if it's a large rabbit, it could be a pancake, was it shot with a macro lens? i mean, not bagging pikelets or anything... but we have to be a bit clearer on this!


also. fucken beer crepes with limon and sucre are the fucken shiz.

[samgab]

Pandora's Box = opened!

Lol, but he's actually acting within the scope of current NZ policing, by giving a motorcyclist sage advice about protective gear, especially when he sees him put his 14yo daughter at risk. The best motorcycle rider in the world can come a cropper at the hands of a bad car driver, and in that situation his daughter would come off worst.
One of the key tenets of NZ Police these days is "Prevention First" which goes beyond simply enforcing the law, and encourages efforts to prevent road trauma and crime victimisation etc. Which is exactly what rastuscat seems to have been trying to do in this case... But hey, haters gon' hate.
http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/112010/haters-gonna-hate-15.jpg

[nodrog]

....... Was tempted to phone plod but no real distinguishing features to ID offender...

apart from the baby hanging from its neck? :facepalm:

I'm confused. is a pikelet a legal form of helmet?

[Berries]

I'm confused. is a pikelet a legal form of helmet?
I always thought it was a baby gypsy.

[Virago]

Bikers lecturing others about ATGATT is exactly the same as non-bikers lecturing us about the dangers of biking. Both have a point, but ultimately they can both fuck off and stick their points up their arses.

[FJRider]

... but a plonker on a Harley. Helmet, t-shirt, shorts, trainers. What's worse, his 14 year old daughter was on the pillion pad, dressed similarly.

But the WOF and rego were up to date ... right ... ???? :shifty:


Apparently it was okay, as he'd just washed the bike (it was spotless) and he was only just drying it out.

But he was totally legal ... right .. ?? :shifty:


He wasn't out on a "real" ride.

He'd probably just left home. It would have been another 15-20 minutes ride to a pub or cafe to make it a "real" ride ... :shifty:


I gave him the "You make my ACC levies so high" speech, but really, I felt like beating him with a frozen fish. Honestly, what makes us think we are so fecking bulletproof.

I hope you are not planning a career in public relations ... :shifty:

[nzspokes]

Speak for yourself. I'm alive today because I take responsibility for my own safety. Irrespective of what others do.

I would rather sweat than bleed.

[FJRider]

But here's the thing, it works the other way too: nil to minimal exposure for most riders, especially new ones makes the risk seem far, far away.

Short rides and close to home ... what could possibly go wrong ... ???


Maybe we could do with a bit of a correction in that department. P'raps the constabulary could take a leaf out of the tobacco industry regulations and festoon their troll cars with anatomically correct pictures of all of this routine carnage.


Look how successful that campaign is going ...

They center on those 7 kms over the posted speed limit ... where the REAL danger is ... :calm:

[bogan]

I would rather sweat than bleed.

Take the car and do neither...

[R650R]

After previously commenting I thought I'd look up that odd word.
That pisses me more than people doing dumb stuff, using acronyms they assume other people know the meaning of, damn trailer trash txt speak.
Well anyway I'm not bothered either way, I've done the dumb ride to beach on sportsbike in jandles about two summers ago but understand people feeling the need to remind others of what might happen.

Poor Rastus it seems you've become the new Cassina know you've handed in your badge (rat repellent) and the rodents are circling... errr typing....

[Katman]

The best motorcycle rider in the world can come a cropper at the hands of a bad car driver...


He wasn't the best then, was he?

[FJRider]

.... I'm alive today because I take responsibility for my own safety. Irrespective of what others do.

In a serious accident not of your making ... end responsibility may not be your call ... only blame for your choice of actions.


And you may not be in ANY position/condition to argue (or even know).


The following years of medical aid would be paid by the taxpayer.


Be confident (under current legislation) ... no expense will be spared in your rehabilitation/recovery.

[Oakie]

Reminds me of a time the local Oamaru bike cop pulled me over years ago. I wasn't actually doing anything illegal and got no ticket but he pointed out what I was doing made me vulnerable to someone else doing something else (won't go into details). He was absolutely right and it's a lesson I still carry today as I ride. Not picking sides in this one ... just saying.

[swbarnett]

'nil to minimal exposure for most riders, especially new ones makes the risk seem far, far away.
The first half of this statement proves the second. The risk IS far, far away. It's definitely not zero but in reality it's a hell of a lot further away than the safety zealots would have us believe.

[rastuscat]

Bikers lecturing others about ATGATT is exactly the same as non-bikers lecturing us about the dangers of biking. Both have a point, but ultimately they can both fuck off and stick their points up their arses.

Cheers for the sage advice. I think.

[Katiepie]

on a side note.. I was riding on the highway the other day and saw something come off the back of a truck up ahead. was floating in the air and looked to be blowing off to the side of the road. Next thing I was covered in a decent sized piece of black pallet wrap on the inside lane at 100km, visor and helmet covered, caught on front point of bike, and it wrapped around my handlebars making it quite tricky to pull my levers. Had zero visibility, and couldn't pull it off me as my hands were tangled.

Know hazards should all be avoidable, but sure as hell didn't see that happening. Was thankful to all the drivers around me who could obviously see what was going on who gave me enough space to slow and make my way over to the shoulder to get unwrapped. If I had fucked up my reaction I would have been slightly relieved to be wearing full gear. I guess my last stuff-up taught me how to react better in a situation rather than panic as I assume I did in the past.

[swbarnett]

especially when he sees him put his 14yo daughter at risk.
Not according to what is currently legally required riding gear.


One of the key tenets of NZ Police these days is "Prevention First"
This is what I have a problem with. A cop is not my keeper.



which goes beyond simply enforcing the law, and encourages efforts to prevent road trauma and crime victimisation etc.
The logical end of "prevention" is the removal of all that makes life worth living.


Which is exactly what rastuscat seems to have been trying to do in this case...
If the rider had been stopped for something else or even at a random stop I wouldn't have such an issue.


I will accept a legal rider being stopped for a gear lecture when car drivers are stopped for a lecture on the benefits of four-point harnesses and curtain air-bags (etc.).

[scumdog]

I will accept a legal rider being stopped for a gear lecture when car drivers are stopped for a lecture on the benefits of four-point harnesses and curtain air-bags (etc.).

Good call but THAT will never happen.

BTW: I've NEVER been stopped anywhere on my bike for the purposes of telling me that my gear wasn't up to scratch.

[swbarnett]

I would rather sweat than bleed.
They can be one in the same. Ride across Death Valley in full race leathers and see how long you last before passing out from heat stroke. Some of us don't react well to heat (even Auckland summers can be a problem).


I passed out once in this fashion many years ago while stopped at the lights on a bicycle. I rode the rest of the way to work with the helmet on my arm.

[Akzle]

One of the key tenets of NZ Police these days is "Prevention First" which goes beyond simply enforcing the law, and encourages efforts to prevent road trauma and crime victimisation etc.

:laugh::laugh:

you clearly havent had much to do with them then!

the first tenet is "reclaim the budget from the denizens"
..the second has something to do with donuts and the third is about not actually catching any fucken criminals and circle jerking the old-boys' club to cover their own asses.

also law ≠ legislation, but hey, ignorance is an excuse... or not, actually.

[Akzle]

I will accept a legal rider being stopped for a gear lecture when car drivers are stopped for a lecture on the benefits of four-point harnesses and curtain air-bags (etc.).

and i will not.

[swbarnett]

In a serious accident not of your making ... end responsibility may not be your call ... only blame for your choice of actions.
I hold strongly to the principle that IF I ever get into a serious accident (or any accident for that matter) the responsibility for my injuries is mine and mine alone (legal culpability is another matter). I have avoided a few accidents that a number on here would hold to be unavoidable because I keep my head in the game. No amount of gear will save you from an accident (apart from saving you from the affects of weather) and some may even cause one in the right circumstances (see my earlier comments re heat).

[samgab]

on a side note.. I was riding on the highway the other day and saw something come off the back of a truck up ahead. was floating in the air and looked to be blowing off to the side of the road. Next thing I was covered in a decent sized piece of black pallet wrap on the inside lane at 100km, visor and helmet covered, caught on front point of bike, and it wrapped around my handlebars making it quite tricky to pull my levers. Had zero visibility, and couldn't pull it off me as my hands were tangled.

Know hazards should all be avoidable, but sure as hell didn't see that happening. Was thankful to all the drivers around me who could obviously see what was going on who gave me enough space to slow and make my way over to the shoulder to get unwrapped. If I had fucked up my reaction I would have been slightly relieved to be wearing full gear. I guess my last stuff-up taught me how to react better in a situation rather than panic as I assume I did in the past.

Wow, that's freakin' scary. Good skills staying upright with all that going on!
Your story reminded me of this: (Not plastic wrap, but also unpredictable and unpreventable (by the rider at least), and he did well to come to a stop upright)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgqChIRJsX8

[Katman]

BTW: I've NEVER been stopped anywhere on my bike for the purposes of telling me that my gear wasn't up to scratch.

That'll be because of the matching his and hers jackets.

They never go out of fashion.

[swbarnett]

and i will not.
Yeah, even then it would be a hard pill to swallow. At least there would be some consistency though.

[scumdog]

That'll be because of the matching his and hers jackets.

They never go out of fashion.

But the ones you saw weren't motorcycle ones...

And the motorcycle ones don't match.

[nzspokes]

I hold strongly to the principle that IF I ever get into a serious accident (or any accident for that matter) the responsibility for my injuries is mine and mine alone (legal culpability is another matter).

So you wont claim ACC then?

[nzspokes]

and i will not.

Well no you wont. You would need a running car or motorcycle for that to happen.

[nzspokes]

They can be one in the same. Ride across Death Valley in full race leathers and see how long you last before passing out from heat stroke. Some of us don't react well to heat (even Auckland summers can be a problem).


I passed out once in this fashion many years ago while stopped at the lights on a bicycle. I rode the rest of the way to work with the helmet on my arm.

Which is why they make gear with vents. Go look in a motorcycle shop, its amazing what they have these days....

[Akzle]

Well no you wont. You would need a running car or motorcycle for that to happen.

bro, havent you seen my fuelly?

[swbarnett]

So you wont claim ACC then?
How does that follow? Just because I hold myself responsible for my own safety doesn't mean I won't take advantage of what I'm entitled to. You seem to be confusing responsibility with culpability.

[swbarnett]

Which is why they make gear with vents. Go look in a motorcycle shop, its amazing what they have these days....
Yes, it is better than it was. And I haven't had that problem for a while now. Although I still ride without the over-trousers often in high summer (I haven't seen any trousers with vents).




I will re-iterate again that I never ride without helmet, jacket, gloves and boots. My only premise is that the brain is more important than the gear that and the choice of what to wear is personal.

[Katman]

You seem to be confusing......

swbarnett meet nzspokes.

[nzspokes]

Yes, it is better than it was. And I haven't had that problem for a while now. Although I still ride without the over-trousers often in high summer (I haven't seen any trousers with vents).




I will re-iterate again that I never ride without helmet, jacket, gloves and boots. My only premise is that the brain is more important than the gear that and the choice of what to wear is personal.

http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/repaairwavest.aspx

HTH

[samgab]

(I haven't seen any trousers with vents).

I've seen a few:
http://i.imgur.com/0BZFr.jpg
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2009/6/75%20Assless%20Pink%20Chaps.jpg

[Berries]

Bikers lecturing others about ATGATT is exactly the same as non-bikers lecturing us about the dangers of biking. Both have a point, but ultimately they can both fuck off and stick their points up their arses.
Amen sister.

[RDJ]

The ER taught me very early in my medical career that the m/c riders who wore less gear, had longer painful stays. So I ride with a lot of gear (including Death Valley twice over the years - yeah, hot, but (a) vented mesh gear and (b) hydration). If others choose not to, the point is they have the Choice.

The trouble with lecturing about gear and other m/c risks is that the logical result of risk minimization is next, forcible and enforced Gearing-Up. Then, next, Them taking us off the road and confining us in cars. Then, driverless cars. Next, subways and trains, by safety-Nazi decree. I.e., no Choice.

[unstuck]

At least it shows you care, and have human emotions under your gang patch.

You did not delete the thread, and were prepared to cop(:devil2:) the flak, and stood by your decision. Respect:headbang::headbang:

The daughter may have learned something from the encounter that the father failed to hear.

KB is full of people so serious about life that I think the real drain on our health resources would be from people getting ulcers and other stress related illness, not motorcycle injuries.

[RDJ]

At least it shows you care, and have human emotions under your gang patch.

You did not delete the thread, and were prepared to cop(:devil2:) the flak, and stood by your decision. Respect:headbang::headbang:

The daughter may have learned something from the encounter that the father failed to hear.

KB is full of people so serious about life that I think the real drain on our health resources would be from people getting ulcers and other stress related illness, not motorcycle injuries.

The major drain on health resources is (always has been) illness not injury...

[Dogboy900]

Good on ya RC I cringe when I see shit like that. A friendly chat might get the message through and he obviously was not in a hurry to get somewhere.

[p.dath]

...
Left the motorway at Kaiapoi, and who passed me on overbridge at the top of the the offramp but a plonker on a Harley. Helmet, t-shirt, shorts, trainers. What's worse, his 14 year old daughter was on the pillion pad, dressed similarly.

Apparently it was okay, as he'd just washed the bike (it was spotless) and he was only just drying it out. He wasn't out on a "real" ride.

I gave him the "You make my ACC levies so high" speech, but really, I felt like beating him with a frozen fish. Honestly, what makes us think we are so fecking bulletproof.
...

I find this very conflicting. I'm a fan of ATGATT and you especially wouldn't catch me with any of my children out on the bike in a T-Shirt and Shorts.

It is also obvious that someone having an accident in T-Shirt and shorts is going to come off much worse than someone wearing ATGATT. It is also obvious that those people having more serious accidents will cost ACC more to "put right".



The conflict is that we live in a free country. And that means other people have the freedom to wear what they feel is appropriate protective clothing, as I also do. If you want to tell someone they can't do something because it is too dangerous very soon you'll simply ban motorcycling all together.

[oldrider]

If you want to tell someone they can't do something because it is too dangerous very soon you'll simply ban motorcycling all together.

FFS - :shutup: - shush!

Don't encourage the bastards - :oi-grr:

There are too many of those pricks lurking in shadows and if they think someone is listening they will try to start a plague! :sick:

[unstuck]

The conflict is that we live in a free country.

:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme If you mean free as in living by THEIR rules, then yes I suppose we are.:shifty:

[willytheekid]

At least it shows you care, and have human emotions under your gang patch.

You did not delete the thread, and were prepared to cop(:devil2:) the flak, and stood by your decision. Respect:headbang::headbang:

The daughter may have learned something from the encounter that the father failed to hear.

KB is full of people so serious about life that I think the real drain on our health resources would be from people getting ulcers and other stress related illness, not motorcycle injuries.

+1 :clap: Fuckin on ya mate!


...I always thought parents were meant to do everything possible to keep there kids safe:confused:...or have most on here failed to spot the 6yr old child in the equation? (To caught up in there furvour to attack another KBer, instead of discuss the matter...some real fucking nice KB spirit right there<_<)


Adults can make there own choices!...you wanna wear jeans, arseless chaps or a lycra body suit!, its your body!, your blood!, your call!...but KIDS!:no:...kids need to start in the safe zone, wearing as much life/skin saving gear as possible!, until they too can make there own informed decisions about there own safety.

So personally, I think Rastuscat did a good thing stopping a middle age rider on a harley, wearing no safety gear, and transporting a child with no safety gear on a public highway, to have a wee chat to ensure he was not putting himself and a child at risk (Imagine he didn't!...and something terrible happened...how would feel knowing you saw them, had concerns...and did nothing!:(...it would fucking wreak you to see that kid hurt or killed)

So again to clarify...a "Middle aged man"...."Riding a new lookin harley"...hmmmm, now wot do the ACC stats say about middle age return riders on big/powerful bikes :confused:....hmmmm...."a CHILD on the back wearing no gear"....hmmmm



Do you lot really need a crayon fucking drawing to spot the obvious safety concern he had and acted on?...ffs:facepalm:

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/64/64b784d8dc0596778969d87d532f5ddbd444b1a46a41d393ec d5153ce202e5e6.jpg

:oi-grr:

[swbarnett]

http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/repaairwavest.aspx

HTH
Indeed, thanks.

Every time I've been in the market I couldn't find anything like this. Mind you it always seems to be in Winter when I'm looking for something warm anyway.

[swbarnett]

Bikers lecturing others about ATGATT is exactly the same as non-bikers lecturing us about the dangers of biking. Both have a point, but ultimately they can both fuck off and stick their points up their arses.
Well said except that I don't believe "Both have a point". Most non-bikers don't know anything about bikes or the riding thereof.

[swbarnett]

...I always thought parents were meant to do everything possible to keep there kids safe:confused:
Wrong. The job of a parent is to raise their child in a way that prepares them for adult life. This is not possible if parents do "do everything possible to keep there kids safe".



Adults can make there own choices!...you wanna wear jeans, arseless chaps or a lycra body suit!, its your body!, your blood!, your call!...but KIDS!:no:...kids need to start in the safe zone, wearing as much life/skin saving gear as possible!, until they too can make there own informed decisions about there own safety.
At the same time it is a parent's job to teach their kids according to their own philosophy.


So personally, I think Rastuscat did a good thing stopping a middle age rider on a harley, wearing no safety gear, and transporting a child with no safety gear on a public highway, to have a wee chat to ensure he was not putting himself and a child at risk (Imagine he didn't!...and something terrible happened...how would feel knowing you saw them, had concerns...and did nothing!:(...it would fucking wreak you to see that kid hurt or killed)
Would you say the same thing if a car cop pulled over every "fully dressed" biker and gave them a lecture on the evils of motorcycles? This is no different.

[awa355]

Rastuscat did the right thing. A year or two ago, a goon on a big MX bike was tearing around the block for quite some time. Wore a singlet, jandals no helmet. His call, his lookout. What got me phoning the police was the 2 year old (about) sitting on the tank, being held there by the drongos left arm. Another concerned local also called the police. They actually came, they knew who the idiot was going from our description. Took a statement later. I dont know what the outcome was.

[Gremlin]

They can be one in the same. Ride across Death Valley in full race leathers and see how long you last before passing out from heat stroke. Some of us don't react well to heat (even Auckland summers can be a problem).
Haven't worn full leather in years, but I rode across Death Valley (temperature peaking at 53C, and 49+ for an hour+) in full cordura gear, flip front helmet (down), gloves, boots etc.

Those in the group that went to vests for the hot days were the ones suffering from dehydration due to the exposed skin...

[buggerit]

Good on u Rastus, I can deal with people taking risks, but when they put kids at risk , I draw the line:angry2:

[Akzle]

fun fact: (with statistics and shit) if your kid's gonna die, it's most likely to be run over by a woman in an SUV.

so rastus, have you fucken pulled over any wimmen driving SUVs lately?

simply for the sake of being wimmen driving SUVs? and statistically most likely to fucken kill children?

[mossy1200]

I wear leathers because I have a fear of abrasion. Just saying.

[madbikeboy]

Couldn't help myself. Must. Give. $0.02. Worth.

Fuck him, if he's stupid enough to ride without all the gear, his halo of invincibility will last less time that the demin of his jeans when the inevitable happens.

[scumdog]

Spent years riding wearing jeans, a brain-bucket helmet and a neoprene skull mask with sun-glasses.
I cost ACC nothing.

Just saying...;)

[buggerit]

So what about seatbelts?, not needed if you drive safe?

[scumdog]

So what about seatbelts?, not needed if you drive safe?

I suppose - drove for years without them in cars with steel dashboards, non-collapsible steering columns and no air-bags.

Again never needed ACC - hell, it wasn't around back then!

[swbarnett]

Haven't worn full leather in years, but I rode across Death Valley (temperature peaking at 53C, and 49+ for an hour+) in full cordura gear, flip front helmet (down), gloves, boots etc.
That may work for you but those like me would die of heat stroke.

We are not all built the same. What would you think of a 100km ride wearing nothing but summer lycra (on a bicycle) with an ambient temperature of -10C and a foot of snow on the ground? I even had my water bottle freeze on me.

[swbarnett]

So what about seatbelts?, not needed if you drive safe?
Correct .

[nzspokes]

That may work for you but those like me would die of heat stroke.

We are not all built the same. What would you think of a 100km ride wearing nothing but summer lycra (on a bicycle) with an ambient temperature of -10C and a foot of snow on the ground? I even had my water bottle freeze on me.

I would say thats not possible.

To give that some scope, Im an ex-racing cyclist with an overheating problem.

[swbarnett]

I would say thats not possible.
The heat-stroke or the cold ride?


To give that some scope, Im an ex-racing cyclist with an overheating problem.
I take it you mean that you never had a problem while racing?

[Berries]

So what about seatbelts?, not needed if you drive safe?
Needed because it is the law.







Unlike wearing a dead cow.

[nzspokes]

The heat-stroke or the cold ride?


I take it you mean that you never had a problem while racing?

Cold ride.

[awayatc]

Got a few problems with original post by RC...

question isn't whether good riding gear protects you some IF you crash....
coz it does, i know it does, and I often wear it.
but that isn't the issue here

I have a problem with hypocrisy......

cops pull you over and write a ticket for, let's say doing 105 kph.....
cops then invariably apologize for wtiting ticket with cheap cop outs like,
"I am sorry sir but it's against the law, I have to issue you a blah blah..."

So you can't have it both ways.....
rider did not break ny law, leave him alone....

OR....
pull speeding biker over who did "break the law" and give him a lecture instead of a ticket.....
And contrary to anecdotal references to supposedly real life instances of this happening.....
I have never ever got stopped by a cop who just gave me some friendly advise when he could find any reason to issue a ticket...

so I agree with the sentiment of a fair few other posters on here.....

Get fucked!

[willytheekid]

Spent years riding wearing jeans, a brain-bucket helmet and a neoprene skull mask with sun-glasses.
I cost ACC nothing.

Just saying...;)

...but would ya do that with a 6yr old wearing bugger all on the back? (Most are used to you wearing bugger all :laugh:...and your kinda built to bounce if it all goes wrong:killingme)

[awayatc]

So which law was broken......?

on the strength of that " in case you gonna crash you would be better of if " kind of reasoning you need to pull over every motorbike rider.....

you can then lecture them on the fact that in case they crash they are far better protected in a car.....

[p.dath]

Spent years riding wearing jeans, a brain-bucket helmet and a neoprene skull mask with sun-glasses.
I cost ACC nothing.

Just saying...;)

You are not going to win Lotto. It is so improbable lets call it feasibly impossible. Do you ever buy tickets?

Sometimes our actions don't line up with the probabilities.

[TheDemonLord]

I've seen NZers drive...

Suffice to say, I ride ATGATT

[swbarnett]

Cold ride.
That little story is totally true. From Brugg to Zurich in Switzerland by a slightly circuitous route. I got a lot of sideways glances in Zurich. The next morning my stomach was blue - minor frost-bite.

[swbarnett]

I've seen NZers drive...

Suffice to say, I ride ATGATT
Suffice to say, I ride to live.

I really don't care what other drivers do. As it stands most of them do roughly what they're supposed to do and I'm continuously on the lookout for those that don't. This way I can take action to keep myself rubber side down. The gear comes a distant second in my thinking (I do wear what a lot of riders today would call MoTGATT).

[Berries]

...but would ya do that with a 6yr old wearing bugger all on the back?
The issue to me here is taking a six year old on a bike. That, frankly, seems fucking stupid to me. ATGATT doesn't even come in to the equation.

[samgab]

The issue to me here is taking a six year old on a bike. That, frankly, seems fucking stupid to me. ATGATT doesn't even come in to the equation.

Well, when the story was told in post 1, it was a 14yo daughter, which I think is okay, so long as proper measures are taken to at least provide for her wellbeing, should a crash happen. The legal minimum isn't as much of a concern as giving consideration for what her injuries, pain and suffering would be if there was a fall.

I suppose my view is coloured by experience:
More than 20 years ago, when I was 15yo and less experienced than I am now, I was a pillion on a motorcycle, wearing a helmet, but no gloves or proper leg protection (jeans). We had a fall, at 70Kph.
The rider slid clear with no injuries, I was dragged under the bike all the way down to the bottom of the hill, over a speed bump, across the tee intersection, and came to a stop by hitting the kerb on the other side.
I had full "degloving" injuries on both hands, meaning both hands were stripped of all skin. I mean, every layer, down to the muscle and flesh underneath. Gory stuff. The plastic surgeons and physiotherapists told me that that is up there with the most painful injuries possible to sustain, because of there being so many nerve endings in all of the fingertips, they are hyper sensitive; and when they are all completely stripped of skin... Well, let's just say I wasn't a happy chappy.
I also ground my knee down so I could see my white kneecap, and the skin on my right little finger was ground down so I could see the white of the bone in my little finger.
I was in hospital for over a month with both hands in traction above heart level or they wouldn't stop oozing blood.

Long story short, I always wear at least gloves and helmet when I ride now. And although it was more than 20 years ago, my hands have never come properly right, they're still scarred badly, and painful much of the time, and they blister and strip of skin with the lightest abrasion.

So while I don't care much if a rider choses not to wear gear him or her self, I don't think much of it if they are a parent and pillion their 14yo child without gear, other than a helmet, although it's technically legal.

[Mom]

The issue to me here is taking a six year old on a bike. That, frankly, seems fucking stupid to me. ATGATT doesn't even come in to the equation.

All of my kids were on the back of a bike around that sort of age. There was only one rule. They had to have their feet on the pegs before they could "try" to have a ride. Of course good gear, helmet/gloves/boots and short trips were the bottom line. Interestingly enough only my son went on the ride in his adult life.

Each to their own eh?

[nodrog]

I suppose - drove for years without them in cars with steel dashboards, non-collapsible steering columns and no air-bags.

Again never needed ACC - hell, it wasn't around back then!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt84J7U75e0

[The Reibz]

I ride in a short sleeve shirt with no gloves everyday. FTP

[Big Dog]

I suppose - drove for years without them in cars with steel dashboards, non-collapsible steering columns and no air-bags.

Again never needed ACC - hell, it wasn't around back then!

A jolly sight less traffic then too. Probably as many campers in the South Island today as there were cars in the 50's.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[T.W.R]

Until you have a decent prang you really just don't get it :facepalm:

All the bravado & words don't mean jack :pinch:

[swbarnett]

Until you have a decent prang you really just don't get it :facepalm:

All the bravado & words don't mean jack :pinch:
If that's your attitude then why do you ride? Your a lot safer in a car if you have a decent prang.

[nzspokes]

Until you have a decent prang you really just don't get it :facepalm:

All the bravado & words don't mean jack :pinch:

Exactly. Having see what can and does happen changes your mind pretty fast.

One way to put it is go out to the road in shorts. Run as fast as you can, jump as high as you can and land on your knees. If you think that will hurt, think about it at 50 kph.

[Grubber]

Until you have a decent prang you really just don't get it :facepalm:

All the bravado & words don't mean jack :pinch:

Agreed. Have seen my share of skin taken off (not mine) and it aint pretty.
I wear plenty of gear all the time as i like to MINIMISE the risk. Which is why i wear seatbelts and drive with my eyes wide open and don't use the phone etc. Not all becuase it's the law either, it's just practical.

[Grashopper]

.
Some naked skin for you guys: http://crossbonesracing.proboards.com/thread/2146


That could have been the daughter.

I think it was well done by rastuscat, to stop the guy and his daughter. Who else is going to tell them how stupid they are?

Of course, they were just going for a short ride. Nothing will happen. After all he is a great rider. No chance he would crash. - Well, newsflash. All those people that crash everyday, in their cars, trucks or on their bikes. They didn't think they would crash, either.

She didn't think they would crash either. Her story is here if anyone is interested: http://www.rockthegear.org/brittanys-story
I assume most people here have heard about Britanny Morrow, but I think this reminder can't be posted too often.

[swbarnett]

I wear plenty of gear all the time as i like to MINIMISE the risk.
And yet you still ride one of those two-wheeled death traps.

Minimising the risks only works to as point. Where that point lies is personal and cannot be decided by anyone else.


Who else is going to tell them how stupid they are?
I take it you mean for riding a motorcycle?

[TheDemonLord]

And yet you still ride one of those two-wheeled death traps.

Minimising the risks only works to as point. Where that point lies is personal and cannot be decided by anyone else.

I'm working on an Automated RPG based active protection system.

[Grubber]

And yet you still ride one of those two-wheeled death traps.

Minimising the risks only works to as point. Where that point lies is personal and cannot be decided by anyone else.


I take it you mean for riding a motorcycle?

I have had many a tumble on the track at good speeds and walked away each time. Think the gear is doing the job.
If you want to argue the point about death traps, we could then be looking at most movable objects that we use every day, but then i'm actually trying to be sensible about the bikes and the avoidable issues involved like wearing decent gear.
It's all about minimising risks not creating silly arguments.
We could all just walk everywhere if you like.

[Grubber]

.
Some naked skin for you guys: http://crossbonesracing.proboards.com/thread/2146


That could have been the daughter.

I think it was well done by rastuscat, to stop the guy and his daughter. Who else is going to tell them how stupid they are?

Of course, they were just going for a short ride. Nothing will happen. After all he is a great rider. No chance he would crash. - Well, newsflash. All those people that crash everyday, in their cars, trucks or on their bikes. They didn't think they would crash, either.

She didn't think they would crash either. Her story is here if anyone is interested: http://www.rockthegear.org/brittanys-story
I assume most people here have heard about Britanny Morrow, but I think this reminder can't be posted too often.

I read that story some time back, very sobering!

[Grashopper]

I take it you mean for riding a motorcycle?

Nah, for thinking nothing could ever happen to them.

I've met 'that' guy who didn't think he needed any gear because he just quickly went out to get milk and got taken out on the way to the shop down the road.

Control is an illusion. No one knows what happens next. Shouldn't stop anyone from doing what they love, but a bit of brain usually helps.

[swbarnett]

I have had many a tumble on the track at good speeds and walked away each time. Think the gear is doing the job.
If you want to argue the point about death traps, we could then be looking at most movable objects that we use every day, but then i'm actually trying to be sensible about the bikes and the avoidable issues involved like wearing decent gear.
It's all about minimising risks not creating silly arguments.
We could all just walk everywhere if you like.
All of which I totally agree with.

The problem is people poking their nose in where it doesn't belong. I only talk about "two-wheeled death traps" because this is how some car drivers see motorcycles. Deriding someone for their choices re m/cycle gear is no different to those car drivers deriding us for riding at all.

I think you'll probably agree that no-one has the right to decide for someone else what form of (legal) transport they use. By extension I would hope that you would also see that no-one has the right to decide for someone else what form of (legal) gear to wear (or not wear) on a motorcycle.

[swbarnett]

Nah, for thinking nothing could ever happen to them.

I've met 'that' guy who didn't think he needed any gear because he just quickly went out to get milk and got taken out on the way to the shop down the road.

Control is an illusion. No one knows what happens next. Shouldn't stop anyone from doing what they love, but a bit of brain usually helps.
Again, I totally agree with your sentiment. However, as laid out in my post above the decision is not yours to make.

[Grubber]

All of which I totally agree with.

The problem is people poking their nose in where it doesn't belong. I only talk about "two-wheeled death traps" because this is how some car drivers see motorcycles. Deriding someone for their choices re m/cycle gear is no different to those car drivers deriding us for riding at all.

I think you'll probably agree that no-one has the right to decide for someone else what form of (legal) transport they use. By extension I would hope that you would also see that no-one has the right to decide for someone else what form of (legal) gear to wear (or not wear) on a motorcycle.

Most of this i agree with yes.
As an ACC paying motorcycle rider i think i do have a right to minimise my payments and the cause of those ever increasing payments. Not to mention the 'human good will' to protect my fellow (albeit idiot) rider. I have some heart to be fair and i hate to see someone placing themselves in harm of any manner. Not just riding either.

[Grashopper]

Again, I totally agree with your sentiment. However, as laid out in my post above the decision is not yours to make.

True that. But it is our decision to open the mouth and say something if we see someone might be putting themselves and others in danger.

Guess this website (http://www.darwinawards.com) might be a bit less...comprehensive.., if someone had stopped to warn the 'nominees'.

I wouldn't put saying something about someone's choice of gear/no gear onto the same level as saying something about if people should be riding bikes or not. It is more on the same level as driving with or without a seat belt on or letting someone drive/ride drunk.

[nzspokes]

Most of this i agree with yes.
As an ACC paying motorcycle rider i think i do have a right to minimise my payments and the cause of those ever increasing payments. Not to mention the 'human good will' to protect my fellow (albeit idiot) rider. I have some heart to be fair and i hate to see someone placing themselves in harm of any manner. Not just riding either.

Agreed. Skin/burns ward is the most expensive to stay at Ive been told.

[swbarnett]

But it is our decision to open the mouth and say something if we see someone might be putting themselves and others in danger.
Yes, that is your choice. That still doesn't mean you have the right to deride someone else for their choices just because they don't align with your principles. The only principles that matter are those of the person you're talking to.


Guess this website (http://www.darwinawards.com) might be a bit less...comprehensive.., if someone had stopped to warn the 'nominees'.
Maybe, maybe not. That web site is probably full of people that wouldn't have listened anyway. More likely you would've been dismissed as an interfering twat.


I wouldn't put saying something about someone's choice of gear/no gear onto the same level as saying something about if people should be riding bikes or not. It is more on the same level as driving with or without a seat belt on or letting someone drive/ride drunk.
It's the same attitude. Simply put, one person is saying to the other "You're more dangerous than me so I want you to improve your safety - ideally to my level." To the air-bag, seat belt toting car driver that means "ideally" ditching the motorcycle.

[nzspokes]

Yes, that is your choice. That still doesn't mean you have the right to deride someone else for their choices just because they don't align with your principles. The only principles that matter are those of the person you're talking to.


Maybe, maybe not. That web site is probably full of people that wouldn't have listened anyway. More likely you would've been dismissed as an interfering twat.


It's the same attitude. Simply put, one person is saying to the other "You're more dangerous than me so I want you to improve your safety - ideally to my level." To the air-bag, seat belt toting car driver that means "ideally" ditching the motorcycle.

Bet you are a ton of fun at the Health and safety meetings at work.

[willytheekid]

Bet you are a ton of fun at the Health and safety meetings at work.

And I bet the fire brigade is fuckin happy he aint a consultant!:laugh:

http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/0905/fire-fighters-fire-speedo-helmet-funny-demotivational-poster-1241557762.jpg

[nzspokes]

And I bet the fire brigade is fuckin happy he aint a consultant!:laugh:



That is fuckin funny. :2thumbsup

[Erelyes]

It's the same attitude. Simply put, one person is saying to the other "You're more dangerous than me so I want you to improve your safety - ideally to my level." To the air-bag, seat belt toting car driver that means "ideally" ditching the motorcycle.

That's a great point, and many probably do think like that.

I'd argue there are others that simply want to see some sense. When a pair of leather gloves from the Warehouse costs $15, the argument against wearing them becomes pretty thin.

Now, the costs of a full set of leathers, or banning bikes altogether, are rather more than that. So the argument is different.

I mean, to my mind, if we're not going to require gloves, and at least a 'no bare skin below the neck' policy, then why bother requiring helmets. Not that I would ever ride without one.

[skippa1]

Seems like an arrogant approach from RC. There is no law requiring anything other than a helmet. To pull someone over that is obeying the law and lecture them on something they already know is just arrogant power tripping. If he wants to wear more he will ffs

next we will have doctors telling bikini clad women to cover up in the sun



fucken power rangers

[T.W.R]

If that's your attitude then why do you ride? Your a lot safer in a car if you have a decent prang.

:clap: because I'm a motorcyclist not just a 5min wannabe who rides a motorcycle

:weird: you're lacking a bit upstairs with your own attitude. grab a belt sander with a 40 grit on it and take to any part of your body for a minute and see what you think of that :niceone: going down the road is worse.
I've been there but thankfully due decent leathers only came away with a compounded fracture of the left elbow, still resulted in 2 bone grafts, 3 sets of metalware and a permanent dislocation of the radial head. And leathers hadn't been involved the arm would have amputated above the elbow.
In the same prang the visor on my helmet was ripped off right in front of my face and gouges left in the helmet couldn't even be replicated with an angle grinder :msn-wink:

So with your attitude of your choice of what you wear whilst out there on the road, grow a set and have a bit more respect for yourself, your family and the poor bastards that have to clean up the mess when it all goes wrong; because when it does go wrong you're either going to loose something permanently, be disfigured for life & be a lab rat for the medical profession as they slowly try to repair the damage a narrow minded arrogant attitude caused :mad:

[Katman]

So with your attitude of your choice of what you wear whilst out there on the road, grow a set and have a bit more respect for yourself, your family and the poor bastards that have to clean up the mess when it all goes wrong; because when it does go wrong you're either going to loose something permanently, be disfigured for life & be a lab rat for the medical profession as they slowly try to repair the damage a narrow minded arrogant attitude caused :mad:

So how do you explain the fact that I've managed to retain my immaculately presented body after literally thousands of road tests wearing nothing more in the way of safety gear than a helmet?

[nzspokes]

:clap: because I'm a motorcyclist not just a 5min wannabe who rides a motorcycle

:weird: you're lacking a bit upstairs with your own attitude. grab a belt sander with a 40 grit on it and take to any part of your body for a minute and see what you think of that :niceone: going down the road is worse.
I've been there but thankfully due decent leathers only came away with a compounded fracture of the left elbow, still resulted in 2 bone grafts, 3 sets of metalware and a permanent dislocation of the radial head. And leathers hadn't been involved the arm would have amputated above the elbow.
In the same prang the visor on my helmet was ripped off right in front of my face and gouges left in the helmet couldn't even be replicated with an angle grinder :msn-wink:

So with your attitude of your choice of what you wear whilst out there on the road, grow a set and have a bit more respect for yourself, your family and the poor bastards that have to clean up the mess when it all goes wrong; because when it does go wrong you're either going to loose something permanently, be disfigured for life & be a lab rat for the medical profession as they slowly try to repair the damage a narrow minded arrogant attitude caused :mad:

Dont do things by halves then?:crazy:

Thing people forget and I bring up is the gear wont stop broken bones. But skin loss sucks and in worst case the blood loss can be fatal. Couple of good compound fractures and some good skin loss and they will have trouble keeping up with the blood loss. I have seen close up the results of an off with multiple compound fractures, adding skin loss to that would have been a big problem.

On top of that road rash sucks to recover from and infects like a bitch.

[T.W.R]

So how do you explain the fact that I've managed to retain my immaculately presented body after literally thousands of road tests wearing nothing more in the way of safety gear than a helmet?

Play Station Tourist Trophy doesn't count :no:

[Katman]

Play Station Tourist Trophy doesn't count :no:

See, I'm old enough to not even know what that is.

[skippa1]

:clap: because I'm a motorcyclist not just a 5min wannabe who rides a motorcycle

:weird: you're lacking a bit upstairs with your own attitude. grab a belt sander with a 40 grit on it and take to any part of your body for a minute and see what you think of that :niceone: going down the road is worse.
I've been there but thankfully due decent leathers only came away with a compounded fracture of the left elbow, still resulted in 2 bone grafts, 3 sets of metalware and a permanent dislocation of the radial head. And leathers hadn't been involved the arm would have amputated above the elbow.
In the same prang the visor on my helmet was ripped off right in front of my face and gouges left in the helmet couldn't even be replicated with an angle grinder :msn-wink:

So with your attitude of your choice of what you wear whilst out there on the road, grow a set and have a bit more respect for yourself, your family and the poor bastards that have to clean up the mess when it all goes wrong; because when it does go wrong you're either going to loose something permanently, be disfigured for life & be a lab rat for the medical profession as they slowly try to repair the damage a narrow minded arrogant attitude caused :mad:
Belt sander? Grinder? Why didnt you just not fall off? Would have been less painful.

he might be a much better rider than you

[T.W.R]

Dont do things by halves then?:crazy:

only broken bone I've ever had :yes: and one of the only times I was actually behaving myself on the road too :pinch:


See, I'm old enough to not even know what that is.

So that puts the immaculate body theory in the bin then doesn't it :nya:

[T.W.R]

Belt sander? Grinder? Why didnt you just not fall off? Would have been less painful.

he might be a much better rider than you

Was taken out by a disqualified Hori in a MkIII cortina :facepalm:

:yawn: doubt it

[Katman]

So that puts the immaculate body theory in the bin then doesn't it :nya:

I've got one of those funny shaped mirrors.

It saves going to the gym.

[Katman]

Was taken out by a disqualified Hori in a MkIII cortina

So what's the pertinent point there?

That he was a disqualified driver, that he was Maori, that he was in a Cortina, or that you didn't do you job properly?

[skippa1]

Was taken out by a disqualified Hori in a MkIII cortina
You saying it wouldnt have happened if a cop had pulled you over and warned you about " disqualified Hori's in Mk 3 Cortinas?" Or are you saying you wernt paying attention?

[T.W.R]

So what's the pertinent point there?

That he was a disqualified driver, that he was Maori, that he was in a Cortina, or that you didn't do you job properly?


You saying it wouldnt have happened if a cop had pulled you over and warned you about " disqualified Hori's in Mk 3 Cortinas?" Or are you saying you wernt paying attention?

If I hadn't been paying attention I wouldn't be here plain & simple :yes:

[Katman]

If I hadn't been paying attention I wouldn't be here plain & simple :yes:

Maybe you should have paid more attention.

You could have saved yourself some hurt.

[skippa1]

Was taken out by a disqualified Hori in a MkIII cortina :facepalm:

:yawn: doubt it


If I hadn't been paying attention I wouldn't be here plain & simple :yes:
So hold on......youre a great rider .........even though you fell off and fucked youself up, you are still better than a guy that didnt fall off that was also wearing shorts etc.....?

you sure youre as good as you think?

[Berries]

I've got one of those funny shaped minors.
Is his name Mark?

[PrincessBandit]

Are we certain it's not a guinea pig?
definitely

is a pikelet a legal form of helmet?
I'm sure you could stick a pikelet to your helmet as some kinky experiment to see if it offers enhanced protection...

I suppose - drove for years without them in cars with steel dashboards, non-collapsible steering columns and no air-bags.

Again never needed ACC - hell, it wasn't around back then!
Jeez, how did we all survive those wild unrestrained drives without all our safety gear back then?

So which law was broken......?
...
I don't think he pulled him over for breaking any laws. Did he say that's why he stopped him?

Until you have a decent prang you really just don't get it :
yes, suffering the after effects of crashing can certainly alter your perception but not everyone responds to those experiences the same way. Maybe the rider RC stopped had never crashed before and, perhaps consequentially had not thought about his daughter being on the receiving end of a nasty bout of gravel rash or worse.

I think there was nothing wrong with stopping the rider for a chat, BUT the delivery (which doesn't come across too well in the OP) makes a world of difference in how it could be received.

[PrincessBandit]

So how do you explain the fact that I've managed to retain my immaculately presented body after literally thousands of road tests wearing nothing more in the way of safety gear than a helmet?

You hide your scars well :msn-wink:

[swbarnett]

Bet you are a ton of fun at the Health and safety meetings at work.
Can't say I've ever been to one.

[swbarnett]

:weird: you're lacking a bit upstairs with your own attitude....
Maybe I've said it wrong but you've got completely the wrong end of the stick. I'm only defending the right to choose for oneself.

I'll say it again - I know full well what happens when you scrape along the road on bare skin and I DO wear decent gear on every ride (even just down the road for a takeaway).

[Big Dog]

So how do you explain the fact that I've managed to retain my immaculately presented body after literally thousands of road tests wearing nothing more in the way of safety gear than a helmet?

Maybe you are lucky... so far.
Fair enough that you have not yet needed nor seen the benefit. Surely you are not so arrogant as to think that in a crash you're enough of a hard man to survive without any protection?
Nor that you are are so perfect that it is outside the realms of possibility that one day you will encounter a set of circumstances where you would benefit greatly from some leather?

I couldn't give the smegma from under my bell end wether you wear gear or not but don't kid yourself that you current data set from your previous road tests constitutes proof you will never need it. Or that others cannot benefit from it.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[ruaphu]

Yup, gotta get this one off my chest.

Finished work yesterday, heading home on the troll bike.

Left the motorway at Kaiapoi, and who passed me on overbridge at the top of the the offramp but a plonker on a Harley. Helmet, t-shirt, shorts, trainers. What's worse, his 14 year old daughter was on the pillion pad, dressed similarly.

Apparently it was okay, as he'd just washed the bike (it was spotless) and he was only just drying it out. He wasn't out on a "real" ride.

I gave him the "You make my ACC levies so high" speech, but really, I felt like beating him with a frozen fish. Honestly, what makes us think we are so fecking bulletproof.

Rant concludes.

And just to lighten up the subject, here's a picture of a rabbit with a pikelet on it's head.

310891

Good rant RC, and i agree with ya sentiment.

Interesting thread, ah well, my two cents.

Kiwi's....................been needlessly killing and maiming ourselves on the roads since forever cos we think we know better and are at best slow learners.

All the different agencies are charged with attempting to keep us safe as possible on the roads, not just enforce rules, just look at all the acc ads over the years on telly,.

The police are the ones that actually have to front up to us half wits and coach us into changing our piss poor thinking and attitudes around safety to ourselves and other road users.

Whether we like it or not, RC was doing exactly what he's charged with doing..........improving road safety, not just enforcing the law.

At the end of the day our road toll sucks, if ya don't like what RC and his crew do in regard to safety, the choice is simple, stay off the dam roads then.


Btw, thats a waste of pikelets and the rabbit should be in a stew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[skippa1]

Interesting.......i called the cops recently to tell them that a known meth head was driving a truck after smoking a pipe and was risking peoples lives on the road. A fuckin truck! Their response was.....not much we can do, hard to test on the roadside. We will keep an eye out and have a talk to him........keep an eye out and have a talk?!?!

but they can waste a law abiding persons time on the side of the road because they think he should wear more clothing? Nothing to do with the law.....a person exercising their freedom of choice legally........

fuckin priorities all wrong

i brought my kids up to respect the law and trust cops to enforce the law........the ones i have dealt with in the last few years strike me as powerless unresponsive bored and in some cases looking to purposelly disrupt people going about their lawful business.

[Berries]

Whether we like it or not, RC was doing exactly what he's charged with doing..........improving road safety, not just enforcing the law.
Only if the guy walked home and put a full leather race suit on and put his kid on the bus.



And back protector, neck protector, curtain airbag helmet, airbag one piece suit, kangaroo gloves up to the elbow. Fuck, just get a car, it is the natural conclusion to all this ATGATT bollocks.......

[Akzle]

exactly what he's charged with doing..........improving road safety, not just enforcing the law.

when did they bring that in??

(is it working yet? :laugh:)

the only people that can improve road safety are road users. end of.
no amount of stupid ads on tv, stupid cops on the road, stupid infringement notices or any shit will alter that.

stew is a waste of rabbit, though that one looks fat. beer batter nuggets or pan fried with red wine. omnomnom.

[Katman]

I couldn't give the smegma from under my bell end wether you wear gear or not but don't kid yourself that you current data set from your previous road tests constitutes proof you will never need it. Or that others cannot benefit from it.

Unbunch your panties before you choke yourself.

I simply believe we'd gain more by encouraging people to open their eyes, switch on their brains and stop riding like twats rather than concerning ourselves with what they are wearing.

[ruaphu]

stew is a waste of rabbit, though that one looks fat. beer batter nuggets or pan fried with red wine. omnomnom.

Yep agreed, you win your recipe sounds better, lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[T.W.R]

So hold on......youre a great rider .........even though you fell off and fucked youself up, you are still better than a guy that didnt fall off that was also wearing shorts etc.....?

you sure youre as good as you think?


:lol: What a childish conclusion to make :pinch:
Sort of speaks volumes of what goes on in your head :wacko: but you're welcome to come findout for yourself :yawn:

[awayatc]

O
Interesting.......i called the cops recently to tell them that a known meth head was driving a truck after smoking a pipe and was risking peoples lives on the road. A fuckin truck! Their response was.....not much we can do, hard to test on the roadside. We will keep an eye out and have a talk to him........keep an eye out and have a talk?!?!

but they can waste a law abiding persons time on the side of the road because they think he should wear more clothing? Nothing to do with the law.....a person exercising their freedom of choice legally........

fuckin priorities all wrong

i brought my kids up to respect the law and trust cops to enforce the law........the ones i have dealt with in the last few years strike me as powerless unresponsive bored and in some cases looking to purposelly disrupt people going about their lawful business.

Funny......
I run into same kind of cops....

[scumdog]

O

Funny......
I run into same kind of cops....

Hoi, that's a harsh judgement of me!:crazy:

[awayatc]

Hoi, that's a harsh judgement of me!:crazy:

Scummy....
I never ran into you as a cop....
only as a person....

you are a great guy, and no doubt also a great cop.
unfortunately I don't run into coppers like you very often

[Berries]

Get a room.

[skippa1]

:lol: What a childish conclusion to make :pinch:
Sort of speaks volumes of what goes on in your head :wacko: but you're welcome to come findout for yourself :yawn:
You started it

[jim.cox]

You started it

Actually I think Rastus did...

[eldog]

Yup, gotta get this one off my chest.

Finished work yesterday, heading home on the troll bike.

Left the motorway at Kaiapoi, and who passed me on overbridge at the top of the the offramp but a plonker on a Harley. Helmet, t-shirt, shorts, trainers. What's worse, his 14 year old daughter was on the pillion pad, dressed similarly.

Apparently it was okay, as he'd just washed the bike (it was spotless) and he was only just drying it out. He wasn't out on a "real" ride.

I gave him the "You make my ACC levies so high" speech, but really, I felt like beating him with a frozen fish. Honestly, what makes us think we are so fecking bulletproof.

Rant concludes.

And just to lighten up



I tend to agree with you RC

I think it was a good idea BUT like most things it is the way you LECTURED the subject

OK do the law enforcement stuff.

Keep the ATGATT stuff separate, take your Police hat off and make it a personal approach


Maybe say something like 'I would personally like to make a suggestion' - use your own words

Point out that there are idiots on the road and that being safe is a good idea.

Has the person thought about what would happen if there was an incident - what would happen to their daughter

Most fathers would go over the top to protect their daughters


Yep In my life I find that its the manner that things are approached that helps.
Being told to do something is way different to being asked or have you thought about xyz.

RC in your new job you can make those suggestions

I am sure most ER, police, fire dept, ambo's have seen the carnage at a mbike accident.
maybe you should carry a set of photos showing what can happen (I have my own)

get people to think about it, now we just need to make the gear look cool and people will wear it.

We ant bullet proof.

[swbarnett]

I think it was a good idea BUT like most things it is the way you LECTURED the subject
Do you pull people over in the street and tell them how to raise their kids?

What you're advocating is for every self-important safety zealot to "have a quite word" with complete strangers. This is neither socially acceptable nor desirable. I would get pretty pissed off if every Tom, Dick or Harriot started telling me how to live my life. That's all what RC did amounts to. And as far as the kid goes, it's a parent's right, within the law, to raise them however they see fit.

[eldog]

Do you pull people over in the street and tell them how to raise their kids?

What you're advocating is for every self-important safety zealot to "have a quite word" with complete strangers. This is neither socially acceptable nor desirable. I would get pretty pissed off if every Tom, Dick or Harriot started telling me how to live my life. That's all what RC did amounts to. And as far as the kid goes, it's a parent's right, within the law, to raise them however they see fit.

a quiet word is often all it takes, might make people think about their actions

I don't expect RC to run after each and every person, but if the opportunity arose then yes.
As a public servant RC has that ability to contact people.

I don't expect every T D or H to be able to perform that or even myself, but if someone asks my opinion I will give it freely.

Under those HD and gang patches are people too.

and You have every right to get pissed off or just ignore it, its your choice.

Yes and what would that parent think when some arsehole cuts in front of them and causes injury to be inflicted on that child. I know how I would feel as a parent.

Yes it might have been a pootle down the street but that's when shit happens

I know what its like to ride in shorts, jandals and no helmet - its cool

I know what happens in an accident got the Tee shirt.

:Offtopic: We had 5 smokers here at work, when asked if I needed a smoke, I told them I had already seen the effects of Lung Cancer (just before she died) and I suggested they should think about it.
I never pushed them or held it over them, they asked my opinion and I gave it. I asked them how smoking affects their kids and finances

Now all 5 have given up.

I would never want to tell you how to live your life....... it just I see lots of shit that could have been easily prevented, but still the enjoyment could have been had (like riding)

A bit like you telling me about the roads out Tuakau way and how they are dangerous as they can cause loss of traction (and BigDog too)

I listened to your 'free advice' on that matter and avoided a rather a nasty mess, I then appreciated your 'suggestions'


A long time ago now before cell phones, I was going home one dark night, saw a bloke beating the shit out of a woman on the side of the road, she was helpless.
I stopped thought I could make a difference (I didn't know both sides of whatever their story was but it look brutal and one sided)
It wasn't to be - I was a lot smaller than him. I got in the car and drove off.
to this day I have often wondered what happened, so yeah once I would have stopped you and told you about safety, but still enjoyment.

Now days I just drive passed, I learnt my lesson.


I have heard of stories about how in yesteryear, in the country town how the local copper knew most of the people in the town or could spot them.
They would often be community involved somehow.
People have told me how if they got upto mischief (like speeding, being a larakin etc and they got caught, the copper would turn a blind eye but give you a stern warning)
They knew who the real bad buggers were. And they could tell you all about how to live your life etc and you would listen
Nowadays they mostly stick to the regs (I have met a few decent old school ones)

[swbarnett]

a quiet word is often all it takes, might make people think about their actions
Agreed. But I don't feel that I have the right to forcibly offer that advice. What RC did was to impose that advice, not offer it when the situation arose. Had the rider asked for it I would have no problem with it. Had they been talking in a pub then again, no problem. But to yank a legal rider off the road for a "quiet chat" is not on in my book.

The actual truth of the matter as regard the affects of a bin are irrelevant. It's the principle of not forcing your opinion down another's throat.


I don't expect RC to run after each and every person, but if the opportunity arose then yes.
As a public servant RC has that ability to contact people.
It is my understanding that RC had no cause to suspect that this rider was doing anything illegal. Therefore the opportunity did not arise. Had they been stopped for another reason then I would have no problem with RC imparting his opinion once the other matter had been dealt with.

Let's suppose for a moment that you lived in India and saw this:

http://www.worldsupertravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/family_on_motorcycle_india.jpg

Would you feel that the local copper should give them a lecture in the same way that RC did?


As for advice put up on an internet forum. This is put out there for others to read or not as they see fit. It's not like I stopped anyone on the road leading through Tuakau and gave them a lecture on the road conditions.

[Big Dog]

The other big difference was that the discussion had already been raised about tar bleeds. The ones on the way to Tuakau were raised more as an example of not being a good enough reason to leave the bike at home. This was not advice to not take the Tuakau road.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[eldog]

:soon:
The other big difference was that the discussion had already been raised about tar bleeds. The ones on the way to Tuakau. This was not advice to not take the Tuakau road.

I didnt read it as advice NOT to take the Tuakau road, but to be extra careful and vigilant when in that area.

The fact that I 'listened' to both you and SWB is what i think KB is for, for people to give advise to those who ask or inform others about something they think is important to know about.

[eldog]

Agreed. But I don't feel that I have the right to forcibly offer that advice. What RC did was to impose that advice, not offer it when the situation arose. Had the rider asked for it I would have no problem with it. Had they been talking in a pub then again, no problem. But to yank a legal rider off the road for a "quiet chat" is not on in my book.

The actual truth of the matter as regard the affects of a bin are irrelevant. It's the principle of not forcing your opinion down another's throat.


It is my understanding that RC had no cause to suspect that this rider was doing anything illegal. Therefore the opportunity did not arise. Had they been stopped for another reason then I would have no problem with RC imparting his opinion once the other matter had been dealt with.

Let's suppose for a moment that you lived in India and saw this:

http://www.worldsupertravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/family_on_motorcycle_india.jpg

Would you feel that the local copper should give them a lecture in the same way that RC did?


As for advice put up on an internet forum. This is put out there for others to read or not as they see fit. It's not like I stopped anyone on the road leading through Tuakau and gave them a lecture on the road conditions.

And how do you feel about the information displayed on cigarette packets?
about its effects. I have seen the very last stages of what lung cancer due to smoking can do.

Yes if I lived in India I would give them a lecture too. I would also know that it would fall on deaf ears. In the end only a major shift of a community in regards to life and self responcibility will alter how people live.
but this type of transport is the NORM in India. Life is cheap there, they think differently to most NZders I expect. People are desparate there to get jobs and everything must be cheap
hence short cuts so you expect high risk like the above photo.

If I was RC I would most lilkely quit too after seeing so much carnage and how a lot of it was preventable (WOF, drunk driving, dangerous driving) or could have been minimised (enforcement of seatbelt use) all things that RC most likely has lectured on. Arent these items I have just mentioned IMPOSED on us to make us safe? Initially all these types of things were optional, but because society deems it better (unlike India its a way of life) rules and penalties have been introduced to encourage actions/behaviours.

Undoubatly with the H&S act coming in, soon everyone will have to eventually ATGATT and good gear too.

Been to China, saw a mbike accident not nice - no gear, no one was worried they expected accidents.

Re Tuakau, OK you wrote on the KB forum (thankyou) but did you do anything else about it?

I reported 2 bad road hazards (1 was a bad tar bleed) to the AKL Transport and within 2 weeks they had been fixed.

Funny how riding a mbike had made me more attuned to road conditions than when I just drove a car.

[nzspokes]

It's the principle of not forcing your opinion down another's throat.




Once you have seen the results of a real crash your opinion will change. And as the I have to pay for the rehabilitation costs of people not wearing the correct gear through my ACC payments I reserve the right to force my opinion down other throats.

[jim.cox]

And as the I have to pay for the rehabilitation costs of people not wearing the correct gear through my ACC payments I reserve the right to force my opinion down other throats.

Another little Safety Nazi crawls out of the Internet :(

The riders gear complied with the legal requirements.

You can not expect or demand more than that.

Personally I prefer to ride with more gear than that - but that's MY choice.

[nzspokes]

Another little Safety Nazi crawls out of the Internet :(



Damn fucking straight. Guilty as charged. Rather my mates alive than dead.

[eldog]

Another little Safety Nazi crawls out of the Internet :(

The riders gear complied with the legal requirements.

You can not expect or demand more than that.

Personally I prefer to ride with more gear than that - but that's MY choice.

Funny how people who wear more gear than what is compulsory/regulated try and defend others who dont.

I seem to remember that wearing of helmets is EXPECTED AND DEMANDED

If the ACC cost was spread evenly across all road users (all same cost per vehicle) THEN you would see the demand by non-mbike users for mbikes for more safety gear, This would be regulated and imposed on riders.

OK I dont expect most people to IMPOSE their ideas on others, but think about it, this is the thin edge of a wedge BEFORE regulation occurs.

Just at present the gubbermint/ACC/Other road users have snuck out from under the cost of mbike injuries by keeping up the rego ACC costs only on the group affected. A user pays system that puts the costs directly at registered road bikes. Apart from death, ACC costs for mbike injuries are high compared to other users. If we can mitigate some costs then this ACC $ could be reduced.

I guess its a carrot before the stick approach.

I have had an accident I know how my gear saved me from lots of skin damage.
Most think it cant happen to me, YEAH RIGHT

[Kickaha]

Once you have seen the results of a real crash your opinion will change. And as the I have to pay for the rehabilitation costs of people not wearing the correct gear through my ACC payments I reserve the right to force my opinion down other throats.

Can you please provide the information about how many people crash and need you to pay for their rehabilitation while not wearing the "correct gear"

[James Deuce]

They can be one in the same. Ride across Death Valley in full race leathers and see how long you last before passing out from heat stroke. Some of us don't react well to heat (even Auckland summers can be a problem).


Actually you'd better be covered up when riding across Death Valley. Had more than one friend ride around that part of the world and those with skin exposed do not cope well and end up in heat stroke hell far quicker than those properly dressed. It's why desert dwellers cover themselves up completely..

[James Deuce]

Funny how people who wear more gear than what is compulsory/regulated try and defend others who dont.

I seem to remember that wearing of helmets is EXPECTED AND DEMANDED

If the ACC cost was spread evenly across all road users (all same cost per vehicle) THEN you would see the demand by non-mbike users for mbikes for more safety gear, This would be regulated and imposed on riders.

OK I dont expect most people to IMPOSE their ideas on others, but think about it, this is the thin edge of a wedge BEFORE regulation occurs.

Just at present the gubbermint/ACC/Other road users have snuck out from under the cost of mbike injuries by keeping up the rego ACC costs only on the group affected. A user pays system that puts the costs directly at registered road bikes. Apart from death, ACC costs for mbike injuries are high compared to other users. If we can mitigate some costs then this ACC $ could be reduced.

I guess its a carrot before the stick approach.

I have had an accident I know how my gear saved me from lots of skin damage.
Most think it cant happen to me, YEAH RIGHT

I don't think you understand how ACC works. Or why singling motorcyclists out required two changes to the Act in the decade prior to singling motorcyclists out. Horse riders cost more in rehab per accident than motorcyclists.

I also don't think you understand that there is no way to predict the potential outcome of a motorcycle accident in terms of injury sustained. Your gear can only, at best, mitigate some injuries. In worst case scenarios you can be picking bits of armour out of your skin 5 years after an accident. I got a good chunk out last month.

[eldog]

I don't think you understand how ACC works. Or why singling motorcyclists out required two changes to the Act in the decade prior to singling motorcyclists out. Horse riders cost more in rehab per accident than motorcyclists.

I also don't think you understand that there is no way to predict the potential outcome of a motorcycle accident in terms of injury sustained. Your gear can only, at best, mitigate some injuries. In worse case scenarios you can be picking bits of armour out of your skin 5 years after an accident. I got a good chunk out last month.

I dont know the ins and outs of ACC I will admit that, no worries.
But do horse riders pay ACC? do off road riders pay ACC? do Track riders pay ACC?
maybe they do, but I am not challenging the ACC system, just how people dont try and protect themselves 'in case'.

I was only thinking of us Road Registered Mbike users

I like the ACC system it acts as a backup to cover everyone no matter what. In principal it sounds great.

Yes I know there is no way of predicting an accident outcome, any accident.

Imagine what you would be like if you worn NO armour.
Yes there are circumstances where armour has caused greater injury than if it wasnt present (you might be a case in point)

[James Deuce]

I dont know the ins and outs of ACC I will admit that, no worries.
But do horse riders pay ACC? do off road riders pay ACC? do Track riders pay ACC?
maybe they do, but I am not challenging the ACC system, just how people dont try and protect themselves 'in case'.

I was only thinking of us Road Registered Mbike users

I like the ACC system it acts as a backup to cover everyone no matter what. In principal it sounds great.

Yes I know there is no way of predicting an accident outcome, any accident.

Imagine what you would be like if you worn NO armour.
Yes there are circumstances where armour has caused greater injury than if it wasnt present (you might be a case in point)

Yes, everyone pays ACC through a variety of channels including the earner's account. It's not an insurance scheme and it was never meant to be. It's not a backup to anything, it is the primary source of funding for accident related injuries. It was devised to avoid litigation preventing timely rehab and treatment and to avoid things like the Insurance companies making funerals prohibitively expensive. It's mainly there to get you back into paid employment in the best possible way.

You've completely missed the point of what I was saying about gear. No guarantees. It means nothing. YOU are a vessel that is designed to deal with speeds of up to 20 km/hr. Hitting something at speeds above that is a lottery as to how badly injured you'll be. You'd do better to focus on mental attitude first and riding skills second than to put a moments thought or trust into gear ever doing anything for you.

[eldog]

You've completely missed the point of what I was saying about gear. No guarantees. It means nothing. YOU are a vessel that is designed to deal with speeds of up to 20 km/hr. Hitting something at speeds above that is a lottery as to how badly injured you'll be. You'd do better to focus on mental attitude first and riding skills second than to put a moments thought or trust into gear ever doing anything for you.

I dont think I missed the point, i might be simple.

This a thread just about wearing of good gear?

I understand about what gear can do, I am mainly thinking about protecting skin damage which like burns can be painful and long lasting, let alone visual scarring.

I do focus on my mental attitude, I know I am not bulletproof. I try and focus on my riding but because I can multitask I often struggle to be in the 'zone' (one reason why i ride alone at the moment) as I have been trying to remove other distractions so I can concentrate better.

Riding skills, thats why I have done training, I am a older beginner rider with no previous experience of riding (almost anything). I plan to do more training and honing my limited skills

Gear is only a backup i realise that.

If you followed me on a ride you would see that I try very hard to avoid any possible contact. Ride like a nana.

[swbarnett]

And how do you feel about the information displayed on cigarette packets?
Hate it. And I'm an anti-smoker.


Yes if I lived in India I would give them a lecture too.
Shit you'd be busy. This is a daily occurrence over there.


Life is cheap there, they think differently to most NZders I expect.
Having worked for the past few years with someone raised in Mumbai I can say they don't. They are people just like you and me. Given the same circumstances we would do the same.


Arent these items I have just mentioned IMPOSED on us to make us safe?
Well, that's another story that I won't go into here.


Undoubatly with the H&S act coming in, soon everyone will have to eventually ATGATT and good gear too.
What worries me is that this is if we keep harping on about what others should wear then others will harp on about what we ride. Ending in us being legislated off the road.

[swbarnett]

Rather my mates alive than dead.
If RC had given a lecture to his mates then I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's the fact that this guy was a complete stranger that is the issue.

[swbarnett]

Funny how people who wear more gear than what is compulsory/regulated try and defend others who dont.
I'm only defending someone's personal freedom. I'm also defending my right to ride in jeans. Even though I still wear "all the rest".


I have had an accident I know how my gear saved me from lots of skin damage.
Most think it cant happen to me, YEAH RIGHT
It's not about thinking it can't happen. It's about knowing the risks, mitigating them as the individual rider sees fit and being happy to live with what's left.

No-one has the right to determine someone else's personal risk level. This is the whole point of ACC - to give us the freedom to engage is "risky" activities (for pleasure or sustenance) knowing full well that if the worst happens we will be looked after.

Allowing individuals to set their own risk level is of great benefit to society as a whole. ACC is a mechanism by which this can be achieved.

[swbarnett]

Actually you'd better be covered up when riding across Death Valley. Had more than one friend ride around that part of the world and those with skin exposed do not cope well and end up in heat stroke hell far quicker than those properly dressed. It's why desert dwellers cover themselves up completely..
Fair point.

I was only talking about heat trapping motorcycle gear. Covering up in thin, light coloured clothing is another matter.

[eldog]

What worries me is that this is if we keep harping on about what others should wear then others will harp on about what we ride. Ending in us being legislated off the road.

Exactly my point, make the info visable - I want more graphic TV ads on road accidents. So people think about their actions. Also about road and vehicle condition.

I am thinking about getting people to make their own decisions.

All this BEFORE we get legislated off the road.

Imposing stuff on people might not be the best way of getting the message across to some people.
But putting an idea out there somehow is a start.

Notice how the general drink driving attitude for most people has reduced lately, still have accidents granted, but a lot more people think about it now.

This discussion is like preaching to the already converted, you and I agree on the same ideas just how to put them out there to the general public we disagree on.

[eldog]

I'm only defending someone's personal freedom. I'm also defending my right to ride in jeans. Even though I still wear "all the rest".

It's not about thinking it can't happen. It's about knowing the risks, mitigating them as the individual rider sees fit and being happy to live with what's left.

No-one has the right to determine someone else's personal risk level. This is the whole point of ACC - to give us the freedom to engage is "risky" activities (for pleasure or sustenance) knowing full well that if the worst happens we will be looked after.

Allowing individuals to set their own risk level is of great benefit to society as a whole. ACC is a mechanism by which this can be achieved.

Agreed. Freedom always comes as a cost - see the Land of the Free.

I wonder then why mbike ACC cost is different to other users?

[scumdog]

If RC had given a lecture to his mates then I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's the fact that this guy was a complete stranger that is the issue.

Why?

Didn't affect you and none of your business...

[swbarnett]

Didn't affect you
I'm not directly affected by this incident, no. But the "safety zealot crusade" that seems all too prevalent today very much affects me.


and none of your business...
If it wasn't boasted about on social media then no. It became my business (and that of everyone else with a computer) when it was posted for comment.


If it stays with a lone crusader poking their nose in then I won't lose any sleep over it. What concerns me is that it's becoming the social norm to poke one's nose in where it doesn't belong. Down that road lies the banning of all that makes life worth living.

[swbarnett]

I want more graphic TV ads on road accidents.
It's been proven that graphic ads only turn people off. Those that the ads are aimed at just zone out and learn nothing.


I am thinking about getting people to make their own decisions.
This is the tricky part. Having the information available when someone is ready to take it in is the way to go. I agree that ads may work but not if they are too graphic. "You catch more flies with honey ...".


All this BEFORE we get legislated off the road.
We have to be careful not to do the legislator's job for them. The more we, the motorcycling fraternity, phrase motorcycling as a dangerous activity that requires copious amount of protective clothing the more the general public will be turned off it and start thinking that we shouldn't be doing it at all. It's about not painting motorcycling as more dangerous than it is.


Imposing stuff on people might not be the best way of getting the message across to some people.
Agreed. But who are we to think that our way of thinking is the only way? That is the way of the evangelist.


Notice how the general drink driving attitude for most people has reduced lately, still have accidents granted, but a lot more people think about it now.
Yet another example of brain-washing. One number for all doesn't work. I believe this is why the limit is so low as to victimise sober drivers. It may as well be zero and probably will be before long.


This discussion is like preaching to the already converted, you and I agree on the same ideas just how to put them out there to the general public we disagree on.
Yes and no. I think we agree on the role of protective clothing but (correct me if I'm wrong) I think we disagree on how dangerous motorcycling actually is and the right of the individual to mitigate what risk there is in their own way.

[Big Dog]

I don't support ATGATT a law. As a principle yes.

How do you enforce the law? Stop every bike you see and check their labels?

What if my gloves got stolen while I was out having a cup of coffee on my way home from a pleasant day riding? Must I call for a tow?

Extreme examples perhaps but letting a wild bronco out of the stable is a shitload easier than getting it back in.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[eldog]

It's been proven that graphic ads only turn people off. Those that the ads are aimed at just zone out and learn nothing.
This is the tricky part. Having the information available when someone is ready to take it in is the way to go. I agree that ads may work but not if they are too graphic. "You catch more flies with honey ...".
We have to be careful not to do the legislator's job for them. The more we, the motorcycling fraternity, phrase motorcycling as a dangerous activity that requires copious amount of protective clothing the more the general public will be turned off it and start thinking that we shouldn't be doing it at all. It's about not painting motorcycling as more dangerous than it is.
Agreed. But who are we to think that our way of thinking is the only way? That is the way of the evangelist.
Yet another example of brain-washing. One number for all doesn't work. I believe this is why the limit is so low as to victimise sober drivers. It may as well be zero and probably will be before long.
Yes and no. I think we agree on the role of protective clothing but (correct me if I'm wrong) I think we disagree on how dangerous motorcycling actually is and the right of the individual to mitigate what risk there is in their own way.

The graphic ads will only help those willing to think about it - not everyone. And yes they will become a zone out

Its a case of Not in my back yard mentality and it cant happen to me - I am bullet proof and such a great rider I didn't see the diesel spill.
Most people will never have an accident, if they don't - they have been fortunate

Agreed if we can promote 'safe' gear as some sort of 'cool/sexy' factor so people will want to use it, then that will avoid the Legislation etc Less legislation the better I say.
Low number for Alcohol has made those 'sober' drivers affect those more at risk of having one for the road.-sort of group pressure from below
I expect they will reduce it to zero before long, lowering it was only a 1/2 way measure so people didn't go off.
Much like the 'temporary speed limit of 80' and 90 around akl - how long is temporary
Suspect they will reduce the open road speed limit to 90, if there wasn't so many 100 kph signs about (they will sight the lowering of deaths in the Bombay to Thames mway turn off as a reason for lowering ALL speed limits)
Someone has to led a crusade - I agreed we shouldn't push it on others, I just want people to be informed/think about it.

absolutely the right of the individual to mitigate the risk - just don't come to me for sympathy when people wear shorts and jandals with their protective helmet
I know its cool to wear just those things and I have done it without a helmet - so free. But I also know how fast shit can happen....

I wont give a shit when they suffer from skin grafts etc.

and

BigDog - I always take my gear and look out for it when I stop.
I don't expect their to be people checking that you have the right gear, its upto the individual

its about information getting it out there

MOSTLY ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONCIBILITY

[eldog]

I don't support ATGATT a law. As a principle yes.
What if my gloves got stolen while I was out having a cup of coffee on my way home from a pleasant day riding? Must I call for a tow?

Extreme examples perhaps but letting a wild bronco out of the stable is a shitload easier than getting it back in.

DONT want it as a law.

You need to keep an eye on your gear and change the people you mix with if your gloves got stolen.
If you cant trust the people your with, then change them

Someone I knew did something like that to me, died from a drug overdose - funny that - he was a sick cnut
Could have cared less.
Pity his sister and mother were very nice people - they had to put up with his shit.

Simple - Horse needed more information to make a decision
Give it some time to make its mind up
If it doesn't come back - Shoot the horse - theres always conseqeunces

Same with people who have an accident - consequences - just the amount of shit varies

I don't need other peoples shit (only those I care about concern me)
If I can help 1 other person in my short life then I will be happy

[Big Dog]

And that is why there needs to be education as part of the learning end ongoing experience not as a reactionary function.
Unfortunately you can't educate those who don't want to be educated.
For those Darwin shall be thy teacher.

Back to the horse analogy.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
You sure can make it shy of water or drown it.
Okay so bronco did not return?
You caught him in the fist place to break him and make him useful. If you shoot him what have you gained? If you beat him you may feel better but he is less likely to come home in the future. Put out some meres and a feed chances are you'll find your mustang back in the coral.

But that is applying the analogy to riders. I intended the analogy to be applied to the process of creating new legislation.
Pretty sure parliament would be a little miffed if you went down there with a 12 gauge and 121 cartridges every time a law was passed you didn't like.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[swbarnett]

RC, one question - would you do the same to a cyclist on a tandem similarly dressed with their kid on the back seat?

[eldog]

And that is why there needs to be education as part of the learning end ongoing experience not as a reactionary function.
Unfortunately you can't educate those who don't want to be educated.
For those Darwin shall be thy teacher.

Back to the horse analogy.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
You sure can make it shy of water or drown it.
Okay so bronco did not return?
You caught him in the fist place to break him and make him useful. If you shoot him what have you gained? If you beat him you may feel better but he is less likely to come home in the future. Put out some meres and a feed chances are you'll find your mustang back in the coral.

But that is applying the analogy to riders. I intended the analogy to be applied to the process of creating new legislation.
Pretty sure parliament would be a little miffed if you went down there with a 12 gauge and 121 cartridges every time a law was passed you didn't like.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

darwin - for evolution do you think these people will evolve, some may, but not all and how long do you want to wait hundreds of years?

It doesnt worry me to think that some people will always do what they want, as long as the info is out there.
Still with Darwin if these people dont die (least cost after no accident in lifetime) the cost of recooperation, if they are able to be recooperated - (many become disabled sometimes permantently and unable to resume normal function) directly influences the costs to all motorcyclists - this is what i want to reduce
have a look at the AA they are trying to get ACC costs to be directly related to mbike users.
As I see it there are lots of unlicensed and unregistered mbikes on the road.
Would you like to see more decroian type of law enforcement on mbike users to pay for this system or would you like to see more people like RC give us mbike users a break and try and use a carrot instead of a stick.

I always perfer to be informed, shouldnt the law enforcement be a friendly face rather than that like the UK coppers you see on TV - because of the shit public/police confrontation

I spoke to 2 law enforcement people today, they were friendly and seemed appreciative that a member of the public (me) actually stopped and informed them of an accident that had just happened around the corner.

I am intriged as to how/what sort of mares you are going to put in the corral to get the bronco back?
a couple of get well cards? or a few girls from Tuakau? or some sticking plasters to cover the wounds from ronald macdonald house.

I am sure you would protect your kids as well as you do yourself when you take them on the bike
probably even more protective since you seem to know the risks.

[eldog]

RC, one question - would you do the same to a cyclist on a tandem similarly dressed with their kid on the back seat?

Have you seen the gravel rash that cyclists get and the infections?
there is always more cyclists

yes I would stop them - no helmet? no gloves? covered limbs?

maybe we should register all cyclists and all offroad mbikes too as well as farm bikes etc
look at how much farm and off road bikes are costing road bike registered users.

sure they pay in petrol taxes but dont we all?

no I am not backing RC this is just my own opinion

[nzspokes]

RC, one question - would you do the same to a cyclist on a tandem similarly dressed with their kid on the back seat?

Not many would ride a tandem with a child in the stoker position. Would be bloody hard work. You clearly know nothing about cycling as well.

[swbarnett]

Not many would ride a tandem with a child in the stoker position. Would be bloody hard work.
Who said anything about a tandem? There are seats for kids that bolt to a standard bicycle.


You clearly know nothing about cycling as well.
You clearly know nothing about me. I cycle commuted in Auckland for a number of years. Not once did I have any more protective gear than a helmet, sturdy shoes and gloves (thin ones). My question related to whether RC would apply the same evangelistic attitude to someone doing this with a kid on the back. Fair question I thought. Would tell is whether or not he is prejudice against motorcyclists that chose to exercise the same rights.

[swbarnett]

Have you seen the gravel rash that cyclists get and the infections?
And this is relevant how? I only wanted to know if RC would apply his evangelism evenly or if he's actually prejudice against motorcyclists. His lack of response would suggest to me that perhaps he doesn't want to answer the question.


no ... covered limbs?
Covered with what? Surely you don't expect a recreational road cyclist to wear anything other than lycra? Kid or no kid.


maybe we should register all cyclists and all offroad mbikes too as well as farm bikes etc
Definitely. In Switzerland I had to pay rego for my bicycle.

[nzspokes]

Who said anything about a tandem? There are seats for kids that bolt to a standard bicycle.


You clearly know nothing about me. I cycle commuted in Auckland for a number of years. Not once did I have any more protective gear than a helmet, sturdy shoes and gloves (thin ones). My question related to whether RC would apply the same evangelistic attitude to someone doing this with a kid on the back. Fair question I thought. Would tell is whether or not he is prejudice against motorcyclists that chose to exercise the same rights.

Read post #186. You did. :facepalm:

[eldog]

And this is relevant how? I only wanted to know if RC would apply his evangelism evenly or if he's actually prejudice against motorcyclists. His lack of response would suggest to me that perhaps he doesn't want to answer the question.


Covered with what? Surely you don't expect a recreational road cyclist to wear anything other than lycra? Kid or no kid.


Definitely. In Switzerland I had to pay rego for my bicycle.

I was interested in RC's response as well, he is on the 'front line' and would see any effects. I was only my opinion - not that it would matter

I used to cover my arms with a long sleeved shirt and leggings - I was a recreational cyclist too - I saw the effects on my mates
it was my own effort to help myself - I never did have an accident on my bicycle.
1 was Tee boned at a light controlled crossing, car ran a RED - broke thigh bone
1 was cut off by a car - massive grazing, cuts, bruises etc

How much for rego on bike in Switzerland I wonder, thought you might have put this in context
and how did they police the rego stuff I wonder

[eldog]

You clearly know nothing about me. I cycle commuted in Auckland for a number of years. Not once did I have any more protective gear than a helmet, sturdy shoes and gloves (thin ones)..

Yep know nothing about you - out of interest
would you still wear the same if you were still cycling in akl?
would you still cycle in akl now if you had the choice?

[Gadget1]

I only wanted to know if RC would apply his evangelism evenly or if he's actually prejudice against motorcyclists. His lack of response would suggest to me that perhaps he doesn't want to answer the question.


From what I've seen on here, rastuscat is prejudiced for motorcyclists and their safety not against them.

[Tazz]

And this is relevant how? I only wanted to know if RC would apply his evangelism evenly or if he's actually prejudice against motorcyclists. His lack of response would suggest to me that perhaps he doesn't want to answer the question.

Probably more like a quota on how many pedantic wankers the fuzz has to talk to in a day being reached before lunch.

Would it be a big deal if someone stopped to you educate you a little on the dangers of riding your bike without wearing any safety gear, or maybe you're on the end of a chain saw or weed eater and had someone point out how chaps can save you leg/s/life or safety glasses your eye with you still having the freedom to ignore them?
Maybe you already know everything there is to know about everything but I'm sure there are a few people who don't who benefit from a bit of knowledge being passed their way before a potential accident that will highlight things in a more dramatic way, all still with the choice ignore what is said.

Better than being pulled up and given a ticket for you rego being out, because that is just living too dangerously.

[Katman]

Would it be a big deal if someone stopped to you educate you a little on the dangers of riding your bike without wearing any safety gear....

Yes it would be.

They'd be told to mind their own fucking business.

[Tazz]

Yes it would be.

They'd be told to mind their own fucking business.

And? Where's the big deal bit? Or are you that precious?

[Katman]

Where's the big deal bit?

Them not minding their own business.

[Tazz]

Them not minding their own business.


http://102859.agwebservices1.org/SiteFiles/102859/Content/Lord%20crying%20for%20the%20world.jpg

[Zedder]

Them not minding their own business.

Yep, I agree with that.

[Katman]

If the amount of effort that's put into pushing the ATGATT barrow was put into trying to change the attitude that seems to suggest it's perfectly acceptable for motorcyclists to live out their Rossi fantasies on public roads, we might actually get somewhere.

There is far more to be gained by encouraging motorcyclists to open their eyes and switch on their brains than worrying about what they're wearing.

[Tazz]

If the amount of effort that's put into pushing the ATGATT barrow was put into trying to change the attitude that seems to suggest it's perfectly acceptable for motorcyclists to live out their Rossi fantasies on public roads, we might actually get somewhere.

There is far more to be gained by encouraging motorcyclists to open their eyes and switch on their brains than worrying about what they're wearing.

Same cop that passed on a bit of info about safety gear also hands out the option of doing rider training instead of tickets where he can/could. Is that not doing exactly what you've said above?

There is also a lot of opportunity to get on a track in NZ. You can only do so much for some people.

I'm sure you were never young, dumb and full of cum making bad decisions no matter how much good advice you got either, but the rest of the population has had their moments ignoring commonsense and sound advice in favour of learning the hard way.

[Katman]

Same cop that passed on a bit of info about safety gear also hands out the option of doing rider training instead of tickets where he can/could. Is that not doing exactly what you've said above?


And handing out the option of a training course instead of a ticket is a great initiative.

He should stick to that though.

As long as the rider is wearing a helmet, the rest of it is not his concern - especially considering the rider in the original post was pulled over for nothing other than the ATGATT lecture.

[Tazz]

And handing out the option of a training course instead of a ticket is a great initiative.

He should stick to that though.

As long as the rider is wearing a helmet, the rest of it is not his concern - especially considering the rider in the original post was pulled over for nothing other than the ATGATT lecture.

Better pulled over for rego and WOF check? Or breath tested for the hell of it? They can pull you over for almost anything the way it is and I know I would rather be politely informed that my kevlar jandals and budgie smugglers might not be the best attire for riding than pulled over for the former.
Like you I would rather not be pulled over at all, I get that, but in the grand scheme of things it's for the right reasons and nothing to cry about in my mind.

If it was a young person starting out and they didn't know jack about gear where is the harm? And you won't know what the persons knows till you have a yak. The guy mentioned obviously didn't give a fark, his choice.

Cop at the bottom of the elevation out of Picton was pulling over every bike he could manage the other week for license and rego check, which was pretty much every bike as it was at night. To me that's more annoying than a random pull up out of the crowd.

[swbarnett]

Read post #186. You did. :facepalm:
:doh: Good point. :facepalm: indeed. I was thinking of a single with child seat when I wrote it. Talk about confused...

[swbarnett]

How much for rego on bike in Switzerland I wonder, thought you might have put this in context
It was the late '90s when I was there. At the time it was only 5fr from memory (roughly 1-1 to the NZD at the time). This gave you $2M liability cover. Health insurance is compulsory so that didn't factor into the rego.


and how did they police the rego stuff I wonder
Effectively not at all. Switzerland is a very honest country. In the two years I was there I saw maybe two cop cars on the road.

[swbarnett]

would you still wear the same if you were still cycling in akl?
Yes. To wear enough to make a difference would put me in danger of heat exhaustion.


would you still cycle in akl now if you had the choice?
No. Not so much because of the risk to me. I stopped cycling because of who I became. One too many near misses and I got very angry. I started mouthing off at anyone and everyone. Even had a run in with a school principle on crossing patrol (for something that was of no consequence at all). That was the last day I cycled.

The problem I have with cycling is that you're at the mercy of the traffic. I'm just not cut out to put my life in the hands of 10,000 strangers every time I ride.

[swbarnett]

From what I've seen on here, rastuscat is prejudiced for motorcyclists and their safety not against them.
Agreed. I didn't mean to imply that RC is harming motorcyclists. Just that he is perhaps applying a double standard if he would not do the same to a cyclist.

[swbarnett]

but in the grand scheme of things it's for the right reasons
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

[Gadget1]

Agreed. I didn't mean to imply that RC is harming motorcyclists. Just that he is perhaps applying a double standard if he would not do the same to a cyclist.

No problem. There's no ATGATT Police so he wouldn't have a case for lecturing a cyclist although I can why he does these things.

[pritch]

The problem I have with cycling is that you're at the mercy of the traffic. I'm just not cut out to put my life in the hands of 10,000 strangers every time I ride.

Yeah, when I'm out on the push bike for exercise I tend to use the walkway as much as possible. I normally only use the streets to get to the walkway.

Last summer I was noticing a significant proportion of adult cyclists riding on the walkway with their helmet hanging off the handlebar. To my mind that's fucking stupid. Not that I would make so bold as to mention this, it's their right to be as stupid as they like as long as it doesn't risk harm to anybody else.

It all ended in tears - and letters to the editor. The Police had a blitz and started dishing out tickets, the walkway is classified as a road (as is the beach). A number of our less intellectually gifted citizens learned something. Please pardon my Schadenfreude. :killingme

[Grubber]

Yes it would be.

They'd be told to mind their own fucking business.

Good attitude. Does this apply to someone showing you how to ride your bike or do you just bolt on ahead and tell them to get fucked anyway.

You should be a teacher!

[Katman]

Good attitude. Does this apply to someone showing you how to ride your bike or do you just bolt on ahead and tell them to get fucked anyway.


I don't need someone to show me how to ride my bike. Thanks anyway.

[Grubber]

If the amount of effort that's put into pushing the ATGATT barrow was put into trying to change the attitude that seems to suggest it's perfectly acceptable for motorcyclists to live out their Rossi fantasies on public roads, we might actually get somewhere.

There is far more to be gained by encouraging motorcyclists to open their eyes and switch on their brains than worrying about what they're wearing.

So if they pulled you up to lecture you on how to ride????
Would you tell them to fuck off and mind their own business??

[Grubber]

I don't need someone to show me how to ride my bike. Thanks anyway.

Your opinion but not theirs perhaps.....stil gonna tell them to fuck off obviously!

[Katman]

So if they pulled you up to lecture you on how to ride????
Would you tell them to fuck off and mind their own business??

I don't need someone to lecture me on how to ride either.

[Grubber]

I don't need someone to lecture me on how to ride either.

You must be next thing to perfect then!
Well done!:niceone:

[Katman]

You must be next thing to perfect then!
Well done!:niceone:

Thanks, you're too kind.

[Tazz]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

On that exact note there is a lot more going on in the world, particularly law enforcement, that would benefit from more energy than crying like a school girl about a cop handing out sound advice in an informative manner that you can flatly ignore if you so wish.

[swbarnett]

On that exact note there is a lot more going on in the world, particularly law enforcement, that would benefit from more energy than crying like a school girl about a cop handing out sound advice in an informative manner that you can flatly ignore if you so wish.
Agreed. But it is a sign of the problem - too many people (particularly safety zealots) harping on about how no-one's allowed to get hurt.

The sort of advice RC handed out, while I would imagine it to be good advice, should be reserved for the "while you're here" type of situation.

[Grubber]

Thanks, you're too kind.

I did say "next thing to" not actual...
sorry to blow ya bubble!

[eldog]

It was the late '90s when I was there. At the time it was only 5fr from memory (roughly 1-1 to the NZD at the time). This gave you $2M liability cover. Health insurance is compulsory so that didn't factor into the rego.

Effectively not at all. Switzerland is a very honest country. In the two years I was there I saw maybe two cop cars on the road.

shows you the difference between cultures. thanks

[eldog]

Yes. To wear enough to make a difference would put me in danger of heat exhaustion.
No. Not so much because of the risk to me. I stopped cycling because of who I became. One too many near misses and I got very angry. I started mouthing off at anyone and everyone. Even had a run in with a school principle on crossing patrol (for something that was of no consequence at all). That was the last day I cycled.

The problem I have with cycling is that you're at the mercy of the traffic. I'm just not cut out to put my life in the hands of 10,000 strangers every time I ride.

heat exhaustion does sneak up on you a bit like fatigue.

I did something similar in another sport, I was breaking stuff left right and centre. Mostly frustrated with myselfs ability to cope (I knew I was way better than that) I just wasnt enjoying myself like I used to, so eventually I gave up, even after other team mates begging me not to.

I understand completely.:yes:

[Tazz]

If the amount of effort that's put into pushing the ATGATT barrow was put into trying to change the attitude that seems to suggest it's perfectly acceptable for motorcyclists to live out their Rossi fantasies on public roads, we might actually get somewhere.

There is far more to be gained by encouraging motorcyclists to open their eyes and switch on their brains than worrying about what they're wearing.


I don't need someone to lecture me on how to ride either.


http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab243/Jordan4Fun/judgedredd_i-am-the-law.jpg

[FJRider]

heat exhaustion does sneak up on you a bit like fatigue.

Dehydration does the damage ... Keep the fluid intake up.


I understand completely.:yes:

9,995 strangers are (usually) OK ... the "Other" 5 are the ones to worry about ... :blank:

[nodrog]

.... it's perfectly acceptable for motorcyclists to live out their Rossi fantasies on public roads.......

People are having gay homosexual sex on the road, in public? choice.

[eldog]

If the amount of effort that's put into pushing the ATGATT barrow was put into trying to change the attitude that seems to suggest it's perfectly acceptable for motorcyclists to live out their Rossi fantasies on public roads, we might actually get somewhere.

There is far more to be gained by encouraging motorcyclists to open their eyes and switch on their brains than worrying about what they're wearing.

I seem to remember that RC in the past has handed out rider training for stuff, instead of tickets. He would be in a very small minority of coppers.
The two I met yesterday were pleasant, I wish more were like them

I guess its the fcuk you attitude of the general attitude at large where I live (akl) that makes them like that

maybe advice to get some track riding to placate the need for speed (Rossi types)

There is a large group of riders who ride way passed the legal speed, are you suggesting that RC and SD concentrate on MORE speed cameras, and tickets especially targetting riders.

Agree about opening eyes and switch on brains, but how should we be doing that?

Most riders dont come on KB who would fall into either of these categories.

I thankfully have a Yamaha Scorpio, I can act out my Rossi aspirations all well below the speed limit, with my brain fully in the zone eyes wide open.

Katman I think you have lecture confused with advice. I doubt I would lecture you (I dont know shit), but if I saw something that might help you with anything, be assured I would try to help.
That was the way I was brought up, helping others.

no I am not a goody 2shoes, just someone who when sees wrong-trys to help.
Quite often I get sand kicked in my teeth - used to that.

I usually turn off if someone lectures me and I am not prepared for info. But I still listen, never know when I might get a gem of wisdom - often out of the mouths of bystanders.

[Katman]

Katman I think you have lecture confused with advice.


I gave him the "You make my ACC levies so high" speech....

Sounds like a lecture to me.

[FJRider]

Sounds like a lecture to me.

There is a freedom of speech in this country ... him being (at the time) a cop ... makes no difference.

Do you have issues with being "Lectured" ... ???????????????????????????????????????????????

[bogan]

Do you have issues with being "Lectured" ... ???????????????????????????????????????????????

I think it is just education in general :shifty:

Like what with radial burnouts etc :bleh:

[eldog]

Sounds like a lecture to me.

sounds like prepared advice to me, and on here KB it has worked but thats already taking to the converted (or those who have already given it some thought)

lecture or advice - i still support it.

and I support you call about 'turn on brain and open eyes' while on the road.

both are good ideals.

[FJRider]

I think it is just education in general :shifty:

Like what with radial burnouts etc :bleh:

Is ENGLISH your second language .. ???


What the fuck are you on ... ?? :wacko:

[bogan]

Is ENGLISH your second language .. ???


What the fuck are you on ... ?? :wacko:

Lectures are a thing of tertiary education, hence me suggesting it was a broader issues for him.

And your sig is still wrong/shit.

[FJRider]

Lectures are a thing of tertiary education, hence me suggesting it was a broader issues for him.

HIS issue ... not YOUR'S ... I suggest you pull your head in .. ;)


And your sig is still wrong/shit.

MY issue ... not your's ... your "Opinion" has been duely noted .. and currently being IGNORED.

Have a great day ... :yes:

[bogan]

HIS issue ... not YOUR'S ... I suggest you pull your head in .. ;)



MY issue ... not your's ... your "Opinion" has been duely noted .. and currently being IGNORED.

Have a great day ... :yes:

I did not infer otherwise. Though I shall infer you didn't receive much in the way of lectures or tertiary education in such fields either...

Ignoring generally precludes responding, but I guess that is just more weight for the above inference.

[swbarnett]

There is a freedom of speech in this country ...
Freedom of speech is one. Thing this was an order to come here and listen. Definitely outside the freedom of speech definition.

[FJRider]

... And your sig is still wrong/shit.

Good news ... I've changed my sig ... :cool:

[FJRider]

Freedom of speech is one. Thing this was an order to come here and listen. Definitely outside the freedom of speech definition.

Cop (at the time) or NOT ... The big R does not "ORDER" ... ;)

[bogan]

Good news ... I've changed my sig ... :cool:

That's better, well, the font size at least, the validity of text is just as poor.

[FJRider]

That's better, well, the font size at least, the validity of text is just as poor.

WIKI never lies.

Have you not heard ... size isn't important ... :bleh:

[Akzle]

Have you not heard ... size isn't important ... :bleh:

she only says that because you have a small penis.

[Big Dog]

WIKI never lies.

Have you not heard ... size isn't important ... :bleh:

If you believe either of those statements:
Have I got the investment for you!
And
Please don't ever buy a helmet without seeking independent advice.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.