MNZ proposed rule changes

[Voltaire]

This might have been covered but only 2 days to get submissions in if you disagree.

Its called Chapter 25- Road Racing- Post Classic

link: http://www.mnz.co.nz/regulations/rules/proposed-rule-changes

25.2.8- Requirement to fit Belly Pans under the engine/gearbox.

25.2.9- Guards to be fitted between any part of bike containing oil/water that may come in contact with track.

25.5.8- No replacement components can be more than 5 years newer than the part it replaces, this is to be determined off the

chassis of engine number.

Email to voice you opinion is admin@mnz.co.nz

I'm guessing that if there is not much of a response that these will be in place next year.

[Mental Trousers]

Closing date is Thursday 30th April 2015 for those that see this a month too late.

[Autech]

This might have been covered but only 2 days to get submissions in if you disagree.

Its called Chapter 25- Road Racing- Post Classic

link: http://www.mnz.co.nz/regulations/rules/proposed-rule-changes

25.2.8- Requirement to fit Belly Pans under the engine/gearbox.

25.2.9- Guards to be fitted between any part of bike containing oil/water that may come in contact with track.

25.5.8- No replacement components can be more than 5 years newer than the part it replaces, this is to be determined off the

chassis of engine number.

Email to voice you opinion is admin@mnz.co.nz

I'm guessing that if there is not much of a response that these will be in place next year.

Whats the general consensus on this from the old hands? I'm only new to post classic so I'm not sure if such measures are necessary or not.

[ellipsis]

...a general consensus from anyone in this game is pretty hard to come up with, so the general consensus would be that there is no general consensus...and if there were a general consensus it is generally disregarded by those who don't really give a fuck about the 'general consensus'...

[nodrog]

Where do I find the date stamp on my parts?

[ellipsis]

Where do I find the date stamp on my parts?


...don't you worry your self to death about that...there are eggsperts at every race meeting who can smell the age of a part when it's still not even arrived at the track...

[Voltaire]

...a general consensus from anyone in this game is pretty hard to come up with, so the general consensus would be that there is no general consensus...and if there were a general consensus it is generally disregarded by those who don't really give a fuck about the 'general consensus'...

CMCCRR President asked everybody to make their views known to MNZ.... can't recall any comments being made.
I'm gonna need a long oven tray to fit under the BMW :eek5:
As for the barrier between oil and track, BMW seem to have that sorted....
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/IMAG2988_zpsl80fgqog.jpg

[swarfie]

Closing date is Friday 30th April 2015 for those that see this a month too late.

And...ummm...according to the calendar on my phone April 30th is a Thursday...so MNZ can't even get that right :brick:

[Grumph]

...a general consensus from anyone in this game is pretty hard to come up with, so the general consensus would be that there is no general consensus...and if there were a general consensus it is generally disregarded by those who don't really give a fuck about the 'general consensus'...

correct as usual...

The major components definition worries me slightly. Legal 17inch rims are of course way outside the 5 year rule. Most discs would be too. Shocks, hell yes.
not sure who's going to define this sort of thing. i realise it's going in primarily to stop pre 89 guys using current bandit motors...which i do not disagree with at all. The oil catching undertrays were probably going to come in sooner or later even though I've not seen many instances where it would have helped.
And i'd point out the cars don't have to have them....

Edit - and i see that yet again we have to fit a radiused edge to screens. make up your bloody mind, on, off, on like ellipses race career....

[trustme]

Snivel sent, seems to me that if the classic register ran under MNZ rules most of the open post classics would be gone. TT 6 speed boxes would be out for OPC but a pre 63 Manx with a new McIntosh frame, Molnar motor & 6 speed box would be good to go. Works for me, not . .:weird::weird:

[Mental Trousers]

And...ummm...according to the calendar on my phone April 30th is a Thursday...so MNZ can't even get that right :brick:

Haha, good catch :niceone:

[Autech]

...a general consensus from anyone in this game is pretty hard to come up with, so the general consensus would be that there is no general consensus...and if there were a general consensus it is generally disregarded by those who don't really give a fuck about the 'general consensus'...

I dub these people the consenseless!

So I will need to fit some sort of oil thingy in-between my sump and fairing? Or will the fairing belly pan suffice?

As for a crash protection for the covers, been needing to put that shiz on anyway, costs less when you bin it on oil left by cars...

I'm building an '89 NC30 in my garage over the winter, I'm thinking all the parts for the NC30 will be fine as the bike wasn't made past '93, or am I reading that all wrong.
As I see it such rules would only matter if I ever get fast enough to be closely scrutineered and then only at National level... I think...

[Grumph]

Snivel sent, seems to me that if the classic register ran under MNZ rules most of the open post classics would be gone. TT 6 speed boxes would be out for OPC but a pre 63 Manx with a new McIntosh frame, Molnar motor & 6 speed box would be good to go. Works for me, not . .:weird::weird:

Don't know or care about the register's interpretations but Schafleitener (spelling?) marketed a 6 speed conversion in AMC/Manx shell pre 63. It's never been illegal to use OLDER components....or replicas thereof. I do note however that the no more than 5 years younger rule is only for the PC's, not pre 63....That deserves a serious belly laugh. If someone starts making replica GSX1100 motors, I suppose we could always appeal the rule.

edit On thinking about it as it relates to pre 82, I'm going to have to study how it relates to Guzzi and BMW motors - and learn the differences in years...

[nodrog]

...... I'm going to have to study how it relates to Guzzi and BMW motors - and learn the differences in years...

I'm going to have to get my angle grinder out then.

[Kickaha]

Where do I find the date stamp on my parts?
Trademe
http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/other/auction-877328070.htm
http://trademe.tmcdn.co.nz/photoserver/full/333643680.jpg

[Duke girl]

Trademe
http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/other/auction-877328070.htm
http://trademe.tmcdn.co.nz/photoserver/full/333643680.jpg

Love it !!!!!!:yes:

[Voltaire]

Liberally stick these on every component. As nothing has been made there since about ....um 1976
http://www.squaredeals-ltd.co.uk/ekmps/shops/squaredealsmot/images/bonneville-made-in-england-decal-med-01--4026-p.jpg

[malcy25]

Voltu,

You missed the one where someone wants to allow methanol in pre 89 bikes too.

Re the 5 Year rule, it's woftam and here's some of the more notable points on that from my response to MNZ....

1) proposed rule change is on the assumption that bikes are only mass production, production based machinery that came with frame and engine numbers. Many road race machines don’t have engine numbers (I’ve owned two like that in the last few years and is common knowledge that Yamaha did not stamp later versions of TZ’s with engine numbers. Just a model code.
2) The application of said rule across any Post Classic class would deem almost all bikes in that class as illegal if it had any replacement part that was of recent manufacture, EVEN IF MANUFACTURED BY THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER AS AN OFFICIAL SPARE PART for that model, that was manufactured more than 5 years after the machine was built. I.e. a replacement set of crank cases, cylinder head, carburettors made last year in the original moulds would not be legal.
3) This rule is contradictory to 25.2.3 (replica parts) . The newest Post Classic bike is 26 years old. Manufacturers are regularly unable to supply major components when / if damaged. This shortfall is usually made up by replica parts produced by alternative suppliers. Here’s an example. Yamaha cannot supply TZ750 crank cases . Let's say I damage my TZ750’s engine enough that I require new crank cases, if this rule was applied, My bike would never be able to be ever raced again in NZ, should I fit a set of these http://classicmotorcycles.about.com/od/classicmotorcycleracing/fl/TZ750-Yamaha-Crank-Cases.htm which would be my only real option to ever have a running motorcycle again (spare used crank cases are either worn out or as likely to be seen as a unicorn). Worldwide Classic and Post Classic racing would not exist without Replica replacement parts of recent manufacture.
4) “Generally accepted silhouette” rule. Can someone please show me where this rule is, or even that word is used within chapter 25? There is no so such rule, word, implication or attitude. Silhouette implies that as long as the machine “looks okay from a distance” that that is acceptable. MNZ Chapter 25 clearly defines that major components must be from the period or be replicas of. Never mind that the last sentence is also contradictory to the dating of the machine.
5) Assuming that this rule was in place, any earlier production machine from a long run model (RZ350 Yamaha was made for years from 83-89 with no changes to the major components), would be at a disadvantage to even the later production versions….In fact they could not even fit the parts from a 1989 bike to the 1983 model….

never mind the fact that how do you date parts that have no serial code (carbs?)or read the code if it had one!

Also, there is a rule change around crashed motorcycles that will be very hard to apply in many situations (though I understand why /what where etc on the rule, it may just need a lot more thought)....

22.1.3: Requirement that all crashed machines qualifying or racing cannot continue that session. At the end of that session must be Delivered to machine examiners for re-examination. I can understand the safety aspect, but are concerned by some aspects of this.
1)Given that machine examination is not mandatory in the first place, there may never be a machine examiner to revisit and recheck the machine.
2) What if it is a long and is the only practice session for an event and the bike is un damaged? If the bike is returned to the pits and is re-examined within the session (notwithstanding the above comment), they could still not continue, despite their machine being declared safe (by a non mandatory machine examiner!).

[Grumph]

I too missed the Methanol in pre 89. While the use of meth was legal in that period, I'm not keen on seeing it reinstated. I see the relatively inexperienced guys on FZR1000's and GSXR1100's - which were known to be difficult to ride when they were new - and I definitely don't want to see those guys playing with methanol.
I have a history of building meth motors - and have a pre 89 F3 in the barn which would love to be back on meth - but no way do i want to see it back.
Where did that one come from ? AFAIK it wasn't CAMS.

If those rules go through as is, we'll have to do a lot of remit writing to get them tidied in the next couple of seasons.

[rustys]

WHO!!! the F#%K is making these dumb arse rules up? should be shot with a ball of there own Shit
Can see the writing on the wall for Motor Cycle Racing thats for shure, well at least i sent my two bobs worth into MNZ, hope everyone else did.

[Grumph]

WHO!!! the F#%K is making these dumb arse rules up? should be shot with a ball of there own Shit
Can see the writing on the wall for Motor Cycle Racing thats for shure, well at least i sent my two bobs worth into MNZ, hope everyone else did.

Ha, i've just been told that what was put up for discussion was the unedited, unfiltered submitted proposals for change...Not what we've seen previously.

IMO, the proposals should have had the source attatched. Then we'd all know who to kick around the pits....

[malcy25]

WHO!!! the F#%K is making these dumb arse rules up? should be shot with a ball of there own Shit
Can see the writing on the wall for Motor Cycle Racing thats for shure, well at least i sent my two bobs worth into MNZ, hope everyone else did.

correct......I wonder who is smoking what sometimes!

[malcy25]

Ha, i've just been told that what was put up for discussion was the unedited, unfiltered submitted proposals for change...Not what we've seen previously.

IMO, the proposals should have had the source attatched. Then we'd all know who to kick around the pits....

yes, spoke to Greg Percival last weekend and he said he put them all up, unedited so people got to see ALL proposed changes, good, bad or mad.

[malcy25]

I too missed the Methanol in pre 89. While the use of meth was legal in that period, I'm not keen on seeing it reinstated. I see the relatively inexperienced guys on FZR1000's and GSXR1100's - which were known to be difficult to ride when they were new - and I definitely don't want to see those guys playing with methanol.
I have a history of building meth motors - and have a pre 89 F3 in the barn which would love to be back on meth - but no way do i want to see it back.
Where did that one come from ? AFAIK it wasn't CAMS.

If those rules go through as is, we'll have to do a lot of remit writing to get them tidied in the next couple of seasons.

Grumph, after I started reading what I saw in the ones most relevant to me, I thought it would be prudent to read them all and found some interesting stuff. One other one I was not keen on was the points moving to a 25,22, 20 set up, not the FIM 25, 20, 16 set up.

Heartedly agree on the meth one and your view on experience - extra power is not needed on these bikes, and a term I have used previoulsy is "arms race" and while very one goes quicker, no one gains an advantage and everyone spends more....

[rustys]

RULES, RULES and more RULES, its like the building industry, OSH Health and Saftey is just killing it, good trades people are walking away from it, just can't put up with the stupid nonsense of it all, with forever increasing costs and paper work, we will soon find in this country more people on a job site signing off paper work than actual people doing the job, mark my words.

Right where were we, if any of this shit goes ahead good by to the Classic Racing.

[Voltaire]

RULES, RULES and more RULES, its like the building industry, OSH Health and Saftey is just killing it, good trades people are walking away from it, just can't put up with the stupid nonsense of it all, with forever increasing costs and paper work, we will soon find in this country more people on a job site signing off paper work than actual people doing the job, mark my words.

Right where were we, if any of this shit goes ahead good by to the Classic Racing.


Hey , thats my job your describing, I was a tradey once and now do all the paperwork.
What I have noticed is that once someone proposes something and its remotely about 'safety' no one says anything that could be seen as negative. Once that happens its goes off and get reviewed, everyone adds their tuppance worth and hey presto....more processes.

This is from the VCC in the latest Beaded Wheels.Page 4
" Those who hold positions at a branch or national level could be held into account for an accident involving any club member volunteering to assist running an event of just doing work around the clubrooms"

The OSH regs are changing from " employer" to "PCBU", person conducting a business or undertaking.

[Grumph]

Hey , thats my job your describing, I was a tradey once and now do all the paperwork.
What I have noticed is that once someone proposes something and its remotely about 'safety' no one says anything that could be seen as negative. Once that happens its goes off and get reviewed, everyone adds their tuppance worth and hey presto....more processes.

This is from the VCC in the latest Beaded Wheels.Page 4
" Those who hold positions at a branch or national level could be held into account for an accident involving any club member volunteering to assist running an event of just doing work around the clubrooms"

The OSH regs are changing from " employer" to "PCBU", person conducting a business or undertaking.

So, soon there will have to be an officials and volounteer's briefing before the riders one - Where the officials and volunteers sign a waiver and have a verse of health and safety read to them ?

I can just see a marshal - "if you feel that your safety is not being accounted for or you're not comfortable with the situation"- walking off...they've always been able to of course, but not usually during a meeting.

[swarfie]

So, soon there will have to be an officials and volounteer's briefing before the riders one - Where the officials and volunteers sign a waiver and have a verse of health and safety read to them ?

All this sarcasm...That already happens. I had to sign an indemnity form at Taupo last weekend just to scrutineer the bikes and have done so for the last few years that I've been doing it for the sidecars. Noticed that all the flaggies had signed it when I had to go and do it too. Makes you think twice about volunteering.
I know some people that gave up helping us when I was running trail rides, after that organiser down south was involved in some sort of court case after the death of a cyclist in a cycling event in ...Dunedin...Timaru? (somewhere down that way, and a long time ago now...alziemers.. I can't recall details). They tried pinning a manslaughter charge on him. Had organizers of all sorts of events ducking for cover ATT.
All this crossing t's and dotting i's makes me feel nervous....

[rustys]

Hey , thats my job your describing, I was a tradey once and now do all the paperwork.
What I have noticed is that once someone proposes something and its remotely about 'safety' no one says anything that could be seen as negative. Once that happens its goes off and get reviewed, everyone adds their tuppance worth and hey presto....more processes.

This is from the VCC in the latest Beaded Wheels.Page 4
" Those who hold positions at a branch or national level could be held into account for an accident involving any club member volunteering to assist running an event of just doing work around the clubrooms"

The OSH regs are changing from " employer" to "PCBU", person conducting a business or undertaking.

So by that it means no one will be doing sweet F#%K all,

[quickbuck]

.
I know some people that gave up helping us when I was running trail rides, after that organiser down south was involved in some sort of court case after the death of a cyclist in a cycling event in ...Dunedin...Timaru? (somewhere down that way, and a long time ago now...alziemers.. I can't recall details). They tried pinning a manslaughter charge on him. Had organizers of all sorts of events ducking for cover ATT.
All this crossing t's and dotting i's makes me feel nervous....

Wasn't it Port Hills in Christchurch, or Akaroa, and it was Her.

But, yeah scary business... We have to read the duty of care before every round.

[Voltaire]

So by that it means no one will be doing sweet F#%K all,

We are sad to announce the death of the five minute job, now requires a Permit to Work, Work Method Statement, Safe Work Method Statement and a Works Order Number.....etc :rolleyes:

Just means all works take longer cost more and end user pays.

Maybe I could just get all the contractors to " sign a waiver" .......

[swarfie]

Wasn't it Port Hills in Christchurch, or Akaroa, and it was Her.

Correct...Well done that man. I did hesitate when I wrote "him" :rolleyes:
We have to go through so much BS at work these days in the name of H & S, it's a wonder anything gets done at all :(

[quickbuck]

Correct...Well done that man. I did hesitate when I wrote "him" :rolleyes:
We have to go through so much BS at work these days in the name of H & S, it's a wonder anything gets done at all :(

Yeah, was the cyclists fault as they were treating the event like a closed road, which it clearly wasn't...

I know the feeling regarding H & S, but to be fair we deal with some very nasty stuff that you only realise 30 years later and then it is too late...

Some of it seems OTT BS though... But it does protect some people from themselves.

[Kickaha]

Wasn't it Port Hills in Christchurch, or Akaroa, and it was Her.

Le Race, Christchurch to Akaroa cycle race

[Kickaha]

Yeah, was the cyclists fault as they were treating the event like a closed road, which it clearly wasn't....
Not quite, the cyclist believed it was a closed road event and it wasn't

[Yow Ling]

Don't know or care about the register's interpretations but Schafleitener (spelling?) marketed a 6 speed conversion in AMC/Manx shell pre 63. It's never been illegal to use OLDER components....or replicas thereof. I do note however that the no more than 5 years younger rule is only for the PC's, not pre 63....That deserves a serious belly laugh. If someone starts making replica GSX1100 motors, I suppose we could always appeal the rule.

edit On thinking about it as it relates to pre 82, I'm going to have to study how it relates to Guzzi and BMW motors - and learn the differences in years...

Suzuki make replica GSX1100 motors, nobody else has to

[malcy25]

I stand suitably corrected and humbled. Just had an interesting phone call, and I like many other people it would seen have incorrectly interpreted the pre 89 fuel rule submission.

The phone was from a man far smarter than me, and who initiated the submission. It was he who identified that there are in fact NO rules covering Pre 89 fuel.

If you track through the rules from the pre 89 rules in Chapter 25, to chapter 10, chapter 10 does not have any rules cover fuel for pre 89.....the rule submission is proposed to CREATE a set of pre 89 fuel rules. As the rule 10-17-3 ONLY covers up to pre 82...

So, my apologies to all concerned, especially the initiator - a complete screw up on my part bagging it as a change , when in fact they were fixing a gap in the rules. Secondly, it would appear that meth and any other fuel could have been used until now. This at least limits it to more normal styles......next year would be good to close out the meth thing (most people don't want it I feel), but that's another story.

Cheers

[Grumph]

Yet Billy told me on here some time back, that, specifcally, Meth was banned from pre 89....Was this one of those unwritten rules we're all supposed to know ?

But if you read 10.17.1, pre 89 is not listed in 10.17.2 or 10.17.3 so is therefore currently restricted to "avgas or unleaded FIM"

Disclaimer - my hard copy of MNZ regs is dated 2013 so there's a good possibilty that's been omitted from current regs....

[malcy25]

Grumph I beg to differ. 25.5.5 says 4 strokes open refer 10.17.3.

Rule 10.17.3 says "the following classes...." and pre 89 is not mentioned at all. Therefore is a gap and 25.5.5 says "open" so that could mean anything unless specifically banned elsewhere in chapter 10 (like nitromethane). There is nothing in rule 10.17.3 saying pre 89 is restricted to FIM unload or avgas.

I wish I knew about all these supposed unwritten rules people talk about! If it is not written down, it did not happen or can't be enforced. Looks like Billy was incorrect on meth being banned. It may be unclear until you really pick it apart, but I can't see anything there banning any fuel type in pre 89.

[mossy1200]

Glad im out really. The 5 year rule has most bikes on illegal exhaust and carbs. Good luck finding 26 year old brake pads and discs. Some will need ride on cross ply tires. Where does one find a 30 year old kill switch for road racing or some old stock oil filters or steering dampers. No more xring chains or ally sprocket. I have a new 532 chain in the garage. For Sale-$400 or near offer.

Good luck.

[Voltaire]

so what's going to happen at classic racing then....will it take several hours to check each bike for incorrect parts, or do they wait for the protests and then check them.:violin:

[ellipsis]

so what's going to happen at classic racing then....:violin:


...it will hang with the status quo ...I bet...

[scracha]

Glad im out really. The 5 year rule has most bikes on illegal exhaust and carbs. Good luck finding 26 year old brake pads and discs. Some will need ride on cross ply tires. Where does one find a 30 year old kill switch for road racing or some old stock oil filters or steering dampers. No more xring chains or ally sprocket. I have a new 532 chain in the garage. For Sale-$400 or near offer.

Good luck.

"Where a ‘major’ component is replaced, ie: Frame, Engine or Swinging Arm etc under the proviso of the generally accepted ‘silhouette’ rule, that component is to be no younger than five year than the component it replaces."

How does this cover tyres, brake pads, oil filters, steering dampers, sprockets or kill switches?

[nodrog]

"Where a ‘major’ component is replaced, ie: Frame, Engine or Swinging Arm etc under the proviso of the generally accepted ‘silhouette’ rule, that component is to be no younger than five year than the component it replaces."

How does this cover tyres, brake pads, oil filters, steering dampers, sprockets or kill switches?

What if it is a really big kill switch?

[malcy25]

"Where a ‘major’ component is replaced, ie: Frame, Engine or Swinging Arm etc under the proviso of the generally accepted ‘silhouette’ rule, that component is to be no younger than five year than the component it replaces."

How does this cover tyres, brake pads, oil filters, steering dampers, sprockets or kill switches?

Given that none of those are stipulated as major components in chapter 25, I doubt it will be a problem. Not that I expect said change to be implemented.

[scracha]

Given that none of those are stipulated as major components in chapter 25, I doubt it will be a problem. Not that I expect said change to be implemented.

I'm in two minds about it. To be honest, I think bikes like the McIntosh replicas are a complete joke.

[Voltaire]

I'm in two minds about it. To be honest, I think bikes like the McIntosh replicas are a complete joke.

I think in the UK they have historic racing and classic racing, Historic where the bike is more o less original and classic where they are pretty much replicas.

Here there is no distinction so you get old bikes and 'new' old bikes racing in the same class.

I'd like to see the no supercharger rule dumped, would be mean on the BMW :lol:

[malcy25]

I'm in two minds about it. To be honest, I think bikes like the McIntosh replicas are a complete joke.

I can't say the same. I'm literally going through the process with my TZ750, where the only realistic repair options currently available to me are:
1) $5000 USD for a damaged and welded set of original crank cases that I may run into the same problem that is causing me to shelve the ones in my bike right now or,
2) $10,000 NZD sourcing a brand newly cast and machined set of crank cases, where I got the last set of 10 reproduction items being produced in Australia.

Yamaha stopped producing these said item in the 1980s so I can't just wander down to my local dealer and buy a set and given the TOTAL production run from the 6 or 7 years these were made (1974 to 1979) was about 600 world wide, with many being destroyed or used in sidecars (Joke, boys!) -it's not like the wreckers are sitting on a pile and they were sort of fragile in this space anyway - they weren't built for 100,000km's!

World wide with very extensive contacts in TZ Yamaha circles, I was able to locate 3 sets. 1 set was not for sale, and as above, 1 set was possibly okay, with my last and safest option being reproduction. What would you do?

I suppose there is a 3rd option and I have a pretty, but useless $50-60k coffee table. Even then it wouldn't be that great as it's too high by the time you build the glass box around it. That and I bought it to torture hydrocarbons and 4 stroke riders with.

Speaking of Mr McIntosh's work: That 5 year rule would exclude the recent run of bikes made by the same company and men, in the same workshop, on the same jig, moulds and process, to the same plans....no difference to if you went and bought a new cylinder head made last year by Honda, for a 1987 CBR600, in the original mould.

Old bike racing when you get away from mass production models like CBR600's which you'll find spread far and wide in their 100,000s, relies wholely on the reproduction world. If you still want to hear, see and smell anything like Manx Norton's, RG/RGB500's TZ250-350-500-750's, reproduction parts are keeping those bikes alive. Can't say I'd like to use an original 1950's manx with 60 year old Elektron magnesium hubs.......eeek, I can hear them cracking from here!

Volty: The UK Scene is more around what mods they do - Landsdowne Historic racing club is more traditional (ie 19 inch wheels, no full fairings etc), while the Classic racing club is more like our combined NZCMRR / NZPCRA scene and rules.

[Kickaha]

I'd like to see the no supercharger rule dumped, would be mean on the BMW :lol:

Should be able to run a BMW 255 Kompressor, finding one may be a problem though

[scracha]

I can't say the same. I'm literally going through the process with my TZ750, where the only realistic repair options currently available to me are:
1) $5000 USD for a damaged and welded set of original crank cases that I may run into the same problem that is causing me to shelve the ones in my bike right now or,
2) $10,000 NZD sourcing a brand newly cast and machined set of crank cases, where I got the last set of 10 reproduction items being produced in Australia.

<snip>



Hmm...I can see your point.

Now where can I find these new CBR600F1 heads?

[jellywrestler]

I'm in two minds about it. To be honest, I think bikes like the McIntosh replicas are a complete joke.

i just brought a mcintosh and have gone over it in detail, i've also visited the mcintosh workshop and had a good look at the latest runs, it's nigh on impossible to spot any differences, he's still gas welding them and people ask why? his old toolmaker suggested getting the frame plotted so a company could electronically cut the rails, ready to weld, rather than hand done and offered up time and time again to check the tolerances before being hand adjusted, maening probably 30 or more % time savings per chassis, but they're sticking to the old way.
maybe wheel sizes may differ from old, but so do the gs1000's out there running 17 inches....

[scracha]

i just brought a mcintosh and have gone over it in detail, i've also visited the mcintosh workshop
..

All I'd say is I think there's merit in the idea of historic vs classic bike racing. To my mind, a McIntosh Suzuki is a new bike with a new engine.

[Grumph]

All I'd say is I think there's merit in the idea of historic vs classic bike racing. To my mind, a McIntosh Suzuki is a new bike with a new engine.

I'd argue that a McIntosh manx is a new bike with a new engine....But a McIntosh Bathurst rep is a repro frame with an old engine...
AFAIK no one is making repro air cooled GSX suzuki motors and also AFAIK you can't buy new cases or major bits from Suzuki..

Jelly, I was watching on the sidelines when the Pre 82 rules were done and saw the discussion around 17 inch wheels. At the time there really was no alternative but to allow 17's as 18 inch race rubber was being phased out and it looked like the market would never get big enough for anyone to put 18's back into production.

[malcy25]

Grumph

Yeah, years ago I had a discussion with my old friend Rob Hinton in Aussie. At the time Rob was the comissioner for Historic racing in Aussie or something - anyway, the technical rules fell under him. Rob's a pretty smart guy - his Brother is Eric and father is Harry. He's as handy on a bike as they both were and has been there and done that. His view was interesting - the short version being that 17's was going to save a lot of accidents. At least they would have rubber approximating the needs of the 150+bhp that they were build into the motor....on top of probably inexperienced riding skills. You can get the 18's but hell, he Dunlop list price is 1500 NZD a pair and they may have gone out of production. The Avon's are a better price.

Scracha, I sort of hear you in the context of at what point do you stop, but sometimes, you need to replace parts due to accident or mechanical misadventure. But is it a repro when made by the same people? Does it matter if it is a repro if the people who made it no longer can or will and someone else will?

Paton anyone? :yes:

[jellywrestler]

All I'd say is I think there's merit in the idea of historic vs classic bike racing. To my mind, a McIntosh Suzuki is a new bike with a new engine.

so where do i fit in then if i was to race mine? mine was built august 1983, it has never been finished or fired up, has just been an ornament till now yet is physically no different to one of the ones that is sitting in Ken's workshop and may have been made this year but retains an early engine?
that's being podantic and was a lucky find but if we continued with some classes like manx nortons where at the puke classics there was just one bike there with an original frame and crankcases, and most of it moidern replica stuff, the rest were modern new bikes.
like was said before, some of the old metals are 50 years past their use by date.

[jellywrestler]

Jelly, I was watching on the sidelines when the Pre 82 rules were done and saw the discussion around 17 inch wheels. At the time there really was no alternative but to allow 17's as 18 inch race rubber was being phased out and it looked like the market would never get big enough for anyone to put 18's back into production. yip it was the right move, but were tyre warmers?
one of ther reasons i choose not to put the plastic fantastic on the track is the wheel sizes (which would cost a fair bit to sort, and the fact that some of it is irreplaceble. replica parts would help that.

[nodrog]

so where do i fit in then if i was to race mine? mine was built august 1983, it has never been finished or fired up, has just been an ornament till now yet is physically no different to one of the ones that is sitting in Ken's workshop and may have been made this year but retains an early engine?
that's being podantic and was a lucky find but if we continued with some classes like manx nortons where at the puke classics there was just one bike there with an original frame and crankcases, and most of it moidern replica stuff, the rest were modern new bikes.
like was said before, some of the old metals are 50 years past their use by date.

Can I have a ride?

[jellywrestler]

Can I have a ride?

you'd have to wear weights like a jockey wouldn't ya?

[nodrog]

you'd have to wear weights like a jockey wouldn't ya?

Well I have been feeling a little horse.

imagine the power to weight ratio.

[old rig]

you'd have to wear weights like a jockey wouldn't ya?

I wouldn't then
Give us a go I'll look after it not like nogrod

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[scracha]

yip it was the right move, but were tyre warmers?


Nope...and neither were wets.

Shinko make lovely 18" tyres BTW.


Anyone who think the new McIntosh Suzuki's are the same as the originals are kidding themselves. Cheater bikes plain and simple.

[jellywrestler]

Nope...and neither were wets.

Shinko make lovely 18" tyres BTW.
Anyone who think the new McIntosh Suzuki's are the same as the originals are kidding themselves. Cheater bikes plain and simple.
when did they start making the 18's, are they available acroos the sizes and wets were available as soon as slicks were.

in what way are the modern McIntosh suzuki's differnt, please enlighten me? I own a 1983 one, and have been over the new ones with some close scrutiny. the exhaust are modern but same technology, no exups etc, the rims are different sizing, as per rules and most posties out there, the motors are if modified essentially within the same rules as the other bikes of the same era, what do you think is different.
same frame builder, same painter, same tank builder......
clue me up as i may have been better to buy a new one of the bikes.
there's two McIntosh bathurst replicas on ebay aussie at the moment tooif anyone's keen

[malcy25]

Nope...and neither were wets.

Shinko make lovely 18" tyres BTW.


Anyone who think the new McIntosh Suzuki's are the same as the originals are kidding themselves. Cheater bikes plain and simple.

Wets: yada yada. Been around since slicks from the mid 70's
Current production McIntosh frames: Nice rhetoric. So, please do tell us which rule(s) are being broken in Chapter 25, and how?

[Kickaha]

there's two McIntosh bathurst replicas on ebay aussie at the moment tooif anyone's keen
Keen as fuck but just not sure where I can live or store them after I sell the house to buy them

[ac3_snow]

Keen as fuck but just not sure where I can live or store them after I sell the house to buy them

I could possibly let you sleep in the garage and keep the bike in the spare room.


Nah, bike would probably go in the lounge.

[sidecar bob]

I could possibly let you sleep in the garage and keep the bike in the spare room.


Nah, bike would probably go in the lounge.

Here's the correct method for storing a motorcycle indoors. :niceone:
It also requires one very understanding wife.

[malcy25]

Here's the correct method for storing a motorcycle indoors. :niceone:
It also requires one very understanding wife.

I wish I could....! Awesome.

[Voltaire]

Here's the correct method for storing a motorcycle indoors. :niceone:
It also requires one very understanding wife.

+1

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/BMWHallofFame.jpg

[sidecar bob]

Is that a challenge? Because you probably don't want to be challenging me at this game. :msn-wink:

[nodrog]

+1

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/BMWHallofFame.jpg

Do you like bmws or something?

[Voltaire]

Is that a challenge? Because you probably don't want to be challenging me at this game. :msn-wink:

Damn....Lego cop bike won't beat a Rickman and BMW...:lol:

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/toybmw001.jpg

[scracha]

Wets: yada yada. Been around since slicks from the mid 70's
Current production McIntosh frames: Nice rhetoric. So, please do tell us which rule(s) are being broken in Chapter 25, and how?

Regardless, they're not 1982 bikes so IMHO cheater bikes. Put the same running gear from one of the new ones on at 1982 one and I betchya the laptimes would be quite different too. Nice bikes but I'd be fucked off if I were running a real pre 82 bike.

Rules aren't being broken but the pre82 rules in NZ are a bad joke anyway. Cant say I recall watching fully faired 1300cc bikes with 200 section 17" rear tyres racing in 1982.

[Kickaha]

Cant say I recall watching fully faired 1300cc bikes with 200 section 17" rear tyres racing in 1982.
Can't say I ever recall watching any at any Pre 82 race event I've been to either

[jellywrestler]

Here's the correct method for storing a motorcycle indoors. :niceone:
It also requires one very understanding wife.

why? it's no dirtier than a kid kitten or potplant

[jellywrestler]

Regardless, they're not 1982 bikes so IMHO cheater bikes. Put the same running gear from one of the new ones on at 1982 one and I betchya the laptimes would be quite different too. Nice bikes but I'd be fucked off if I were running a real pre 82 bike.

Rules aren't being broken but the pre82 rules in NZ are a bad joke anyway. Cant say I recall watching fully faired 1300cc bikes with 200 section 17" rear tyres racing in 1982.

they were manufactured pre 1982, the only difference with modern replicas is the wheel sizing and that same difference applies to.
some years ago i was interested in getting and running the pre production prototype plastic fantastic, which had steel swingarm and wasn't to the spec of the actual bike which was finished in late feb/march 83 (the actual first race plastic bike) the movement were dead against it, despite the bike being heavier than it's predecessor the Aloy monocoque, so i fail to see how the mcIntosh suzukis can't be elidgeable, like for aexample a later model clone of a bike that was pre 82 but continued being manufactured after the cut off date.
as for pre 82 fully faired bikes, there were some and the cc limit then was to 1301 from memory to allow the z1300, big bore cb1100r's etc out there, yip the wheels weren't but i think we've gone over that.

[malcy25]

Regardless, they're not 1982 bikes so IMHO cheater bikes. Put the same running gear from one of the new ones on at 1982 one and I betchya the laptimes would be quite different too. Nice bikes but I'd be fucked off if I were running a real pre 82 bike.

Rules aren't being broken but the pre82 rules in NZ are a bad joke anyway. Cant say I recall watching fully faired 1300cc bikes with 200 section 17" rear tyres racing in 1982.

Your "opinion" is noted. But it is just that, an opinion and does not constitute the bikes being cheater bikes. I suppose opinions are like arm pits. Everyone has one or two, though most people are not interested in them.

Interesting to note that you had to agree that in my circumstances that my only real option was to use a recent production replication of the parts I need to allow my bike to run again, but when yet the parts are being made by the man himself who made the original parts, all of a sudden it not acceptable? Make up your mind. But if you reread my prior comments, you will have to acknowledge replica parts are something that has to be considered and embraced for safety or allowing continued use of most or all bikes as things break or wear out and can't be supplied by the original manufacturer. Or in Kens case, they can be.

The bike you are most likely referring to which is the bike that Cam Donald has ridden well has Katana forks in it like that used in the Mc's from the period. With period 2 pot Lockheeds and cast iron non floating brembo discs like you'd find on a 900ss bevel drive etc. and a whopping 160 rear tyre. I mean the biggest they were using in about 82 was circa 150 or 3-75/6-00 dunlop which was circa 150. The TZ 350s were even using 130s then. By the way, Cam does 1.08s at HD like that. I recall hearing that it is quite small in the motor.

1300cc, hell that's small to what was being used in 1982! The rider who made these bike famous was using the full capacity limit of 1350cc for nz f1 I heard. Gosh, full fairings have been in regular use since the 1950s. 200 section rear tyres. Not seen one in NZ on a Pre 82 bike, But if someone is keen, more fool them with a 5 inch rim. I have seen it in Aussie and with UK riders. Not pretty but few and far between. May be 6 top Aussie riders.

NZ pre 82 rules a joke? So how many other country rules are you intimately aware of? NZ rules may not be perfect, but they are some of the tightest in the world. Please do elaborate on where the gap is. Note this is not production racing.

Having an understanding of lap times from the early 80s , I can also confirm that the pre 82 bikes never got to the lap record at puke set around 1982 and the track was 2 seconds faster after changes around 1990. Vis 1982 was about 1.02 or better (Spyda, that would be D Hiscock if I recall?) Best postie record was 1.03.5.

I was a spotty faced little rivet counter shit of a teenager who was the gopher and got dragged along to all the club and national level race meetings or raided the magazines that dropped through to house. So I got to see much of the technical side of the bikes in the early 80s before I started racing myself. I fact some of the bikes racing now or seen from time to time, are the very same bikes that I was looking at 30+ years ago or I now even own or have owned!

[jellywrestler]

Here's the correct method for storing a motorcycle indoors. :niceone:
It also requires one very understanding wife.

not married, but got a girlfriend whose happy with it all, and yip the Stuka has wings, just got to get around to hanging it from the ceiling.

[Grumph]

Looks like the section has got away from you a bit spyda...

malky's pretty well right in what he says. Pre 82 are not going a lot quicker now at the circuits where a direct comparison is possible. Pre 89 definitely are not quicker either. IMO most of that is riding though...If you put Holden or one of the other guys from the period on these bikes, yes they would set records.

However if you want to see these bikes run at all, compromises have to be made in so far as allowing replica bits. Would you turn up your nose at one of George Beale's Honda six REPLICAS, Scratcha ? Seeing and hearing those is the only way now you'll ever get that experience.

Our rules are pretty much middle of the road compared to some countries. i don't like the Euro "safety" rulings which allow modern brakes for instance...
I'm also not happy with the "australianisation" of our rules. Exactly how many people here will go and race in Oz ? Or vice versa ?

[sidecar bob]

why? it's no dirtier than a kid kitten or potplant

Try explaining that to Swarfies wife. His bikes are a lot nicer than mine too.
I always point out great positions in their house that a bike could be displayed indoors to wind her up when I go there.

[nodrog]

Looks like the section has got away from you a bit spyda...

malky's pretty well right in what he says. Pre 82 are not going a lot quicker now at the circuits where a direct comparison is possible. Pre 89 definitely are not quicker either. IMO most of that is riding though...If you put Holden or one of the other guys from the period on these bikes, yes they would set records.

However if you want to see these bikes run at all, compromises have to be made in so far as allowing replica bits. Would you turn up your nose at one of George Beale's Honda six REPLICAS, Scratcha ? Seeing and hearing those is the only way now you'll ever get that experience.

Our rules are pretty much middle of the road compared to some countries. i don't like the Euro "safety" rulings which allow modern brakes for instance...
I'm also not happy with the "australianisation" of our rules. Exactly how many people here will go and race in Oz ? Or vice versa ?

You can only propose rules that reflect what sombody in wanganui on minimum wage was doing in the period.

Well at least thats what I was told.

[sidecar bob]

I wish I could....! Awesome.

ill put up another indoor dweller later on that will be closer to your liking. Do you want European two stroke, big old jappa, or possibly another Pom Bomb?

[swarfie]

Try explaining that to Swarfies wife. His bikes are a lot nicer than mine too.
I always point out great positions in their house that a bike could be displayed indoors to wind her up when I go there.

Yeah I've tried to get some of them in the lounge but it's NOT happening:Police::no:

Mind you it'd be too dusty in there anyway....ssshhhhh don't let the war office hear wot I said :laugh:

[scracha]

Your "opinion" is noted. But it is just that, an opinion and does not constitute the bikes being cheater bikes. I suppose opinions are like arm pits. Everyone has one or two, though most people are not interested in them.

I'm not disagreeing and that's why I put it in italics.



Interesting to note that you had to agree that in my circumstances !
I said "I see your point", I never said I agreed with it :innocent:

http://www.crmc.co.uk/_webedit/uploaded-files/All%20Files/eligibility/Eligibility%20Booklet%202015%20v3.pdf
some good ideas in there around frames at chapter 9. Be too late for us to change here though.

[malcy25]

I'm not disagreeing and that's why I put it in italics.


I said "I see your point", I never said I agreed with it :innocent:

http://www.crmc.co.uk/_webedit/uploaded-files/All%20Files/eligibility/Eligibility%20Booklet%202015%20v3.pdf
some good ideas in there around frames at chapter 9. Be too late for us to change here though.

LOl, yeah, there is lots to look at and think about with all of this. I'm always interested in what other countries do. The CRMC rule book has some good stuff in it. But fact remains, that even "In period" there was a lot of cutting and shutting going on with steering heads around the world. Read the next rule around forks which are a really visual component and they are wide open in comparison to ours. They also have a history which is a little different ours. Interestingly you'll see no rim with limits (but a tyre width in line with what most guys here use of 160/180) or brake caliper aging etc.....

So while they have a restrictive frame, what you can bolt on is far wilder than what we can do. Plus I know from guys like Captain Cocky James Clark, Higgsy, Steve Dobbie, Graham Salter, that steering geometry is well tweaked on those period look frames.

I still contend that we have some of the tighest rules.

[malcy25]

Regardless, they're not 1982 bikes so IMHO cheater bikes. Put the same running gear from one of the new ones on at 1982 one and I betchya the laptimes would be quite different too. Nice bikes but I'd be fucked off if I were running a real pre 82 bike.



Scracha

This is the very first section of the CRMC UK rule book that you were referring to:

PART 1 – Overarching Principles and Authority – Right of Appeal
The Classic Racing Motorcycle Club (“CRMC”) operates in order to promote the following two Over-riding Principles:
1. The preservation and use of post war sports and racing machines;
2. That to race with the CRMC machines must either be machines that were raced in the relevant period or be faithful replicas of such machines.

[sidecar bob]

Read the next rule around forks which are a really visual component and they are wide open in comparison to ours.

So realistically in NZ you could put a set of highly modified 2008 Harley forks into a pre '82 Z1000 & nobody would kick up a stink? Why the fuck don't people protest that kind of shit? (No offence intended Brian D)

[Voltaire]

So realistically in NZ you could put a set of highly modified 2008 Harley forks into a pre '82 Z1000 & nobody would kick up a stink? Why the fuck don't people protest that kind of shit? (No offence intended Brian D)

didn't you say something along the lines of " in a week no one remembers who won and its for a plastic cup" or something like that.:msn-wink:

[sidecar bob]

didn't you say something along the lines of " in a week no one remembers who won and its for a plastic cup" or something like that.:msn-wink:

Yes, that is my philosophy on racing, so why would you bother cheating to achieve something that doesn't really matter a fuck in a week? The loss of honesty & integrity far outweighs the victory. (Says the bloke that races a bike with current rego & a main stand)

[Kickaha]

Why the fuck don't people protest that kind of shit? (No offence intended Brian D)
Because no one wants to put the protest in they'd rather just bitch about it, otherwise a certain sidecar with a rumoured oversize engine would have been done :msn-wink:

[jellywrestler]

So realistically in NZ you could put a set of highly modified 2008 Harley forks into a pre '82 Z1000 & nobody would kick up a stink? Why the fuck don't people protest that kind of shit? (No offence intended Brian D)

having a set of 'highly modified Harley forks" would still like being the tallest dwarf wouldn't it,

[swarfie]

Because no one wants to put the protest in they'd rather just bitch about it, otherwise a certain sidecar with a rumoured oversize engine would have been done :msn-wink:

Ziiizzzzzzzzz.....fishing anyone? :lol:

[jellywrestler]

The loss of honesty & integrity far outweighs the victory. (Says the bloke that races a bike with current rego & a main stand) that bike is a rule breaker, it clearly says in the rule book two wheels when last moment it was on the track it only had one!!!!!

[swarfie]

that bike is a rule breaker, it clearly says in the rule book two wheels when last moment it was on the track it only had one!!!!!

Zziiiizzzzzzzzz.....fishing anyone? :lol:

[sidecar bob]

Because no one wants to put the protest in they'd rather just bitch about it, otherwise a certain sidecar with a rumoured oversize engine would have been done :msn-wink:

I fuckin wish someone had protested it & demanded a strip down in public. That would have made an even bigger fool of the chequebook racers of the day.

[malcy25]

So realistically in NZ you could put a set of highly modified 2008 Harley forks into a pre '82 Z1000 & nobody would kick up a stink? Why the fuck don't people protest that kind of shit? (No offence intended Brian D)

Bob, err, that rule that I was talking about was a précis of the UK rules which are open RWU forks up to 43mm.

The CRMC rule book "has some good stuff in it. But fact remains, that even "In period" there was a lot of cutting and shutting going on with steering heads around the world. Read the next rule around forks which are a really visual component and they are wide open in comparison to ours"

[sidecar bob]

Here's another old shitter inside the house to break the tension.:niceone:
Robbie Dean has a lot to answer for regarding how I turned out.

[Grumph]

Bob, err, that rule that I was talking about was a précis of the UK rules which are open RWU forks up to 43mm.

The CRMC rule book "has some good stuff in it. But fact remains, that even "In period" there was a lot of cutting and shutting going on with steering heads around the world. Read the next rule around forks which are a really visual component and they are wide open in comparison to ours"

Yep, and when you look at Canadian pre 82 equivalent rules, same open RWU forks to, i think 41mm. Mags have to be solid spoke - no hollow spoke allowed which rules out most if not all the modern 17's - and sends you looking for Dymags...Our rules look pretty good compared to a lot of others.

But we're all promoting false history anyway as most bikes raced in that period were Yamaha 2 strokes...Some time back, someone posted a pic of the grid at gracefield. I'd estimate 80% 2 strokes...
But only people like malcy can run them now....

[sidecar bob]

.Some time back, someone posted a pic of the grid at gracefield. I'd estimate 80% 2 strokes...
But only people like malcy can run them now....

I heard from a very reliable source that they (TZ750's) now cost about $60 to $70 a lap to run, most of us aren't up for that as a good 4 stroke would be a fraction of that. I'm sure malcy25 can confirm if this is the case.

[Grumph]

I heard from a very reliable source that they (TZ750's) now cost about $60 to $70 a lap to run, most of us aren't up for that as a good 4 stroke would be a fraction of that. I'm sure malcy25 can confirm if this is the case.

Did i tell you about the guy down here who bought a manx from a reputable source in Auckland...used it for 3 seasons before it got too much for him...he reckoned afterwards it cost him roughly $1000 per meeting....

[sidecar bob]

Did i tell you about the guy down here who bought a manx from a reputable source in Auckland...used it for 3 seasons before it got too much for him...he reckoned afterwards it cost him roughly $1000 per meeting....

I can afford to race because I have this awesome engine builder that doesn't charge enough for his skills. ;)

[Kickaha]

I can afford to race because I have this awesome engine builder
I just gave him a motor this morning so he better be ;)

[Grumph]

I can afford to race because I have this awesome engine builder that doesn't charge enough for his skills. ;)

Ha, said manx owner wouldn't come near me - he thought I charged too much.

Those bikes inside worry me slightly Steve. Those of us who've been through the quakes and aftershocks know just how hard it is to keep a bike upright through even a mild shake. It's like when someone from ChCh goes to Wgtn now, you look at the old brick and block buildings in wonder - and fear. Bit disappointed in the kat too, not even a wire wheel one...and marzocchi shocks, tsk, tsk....

[Grumph]

I just gave him a motor this morning so he better be ;)

Brace yourself for when the cases are split....

[nodrog]

Ha, said manx owner wouldn't come near me - he thought I charged too much.

Those bikes inside worry me slightly Steve. Those of us who've been through the quakes and aftershocks know just how hard it is to keep a bike upright through even a mild shake. It's like when someone from ChCh goes to Wgtn now, you look at the old brick and block buildings in wonder - and fear. Bit disappointed in the kat too, not even a wire wheel one...and marzocchi shocks, tsk, tsk....

don't worry, there are 4 cable ties securing the "pantry bike".

and its been load tested.

[sidecar bob]

Ha, said manx owner wouldn't come near me - he thought I charged too much.

Those bikes inside worry me slightly Steve. Those of us who've been through the quakes and aftershocks know just how hard it is to keep a bike upright through even a mild shake. It's like when someone from ChCh goes to Wgtn now, you look at the old brick and block buildings in wonder - and fear. Bit disappointed in the kat too, not even a wire wheel one...and marzocchi shocks, tsk, tsk....

I bought that Katana off Robbie Dean in '84 & painted it black & fully rebuilt it from the crank up in '87 after a horrendously hard three years of constant 220kmh plus on the road trying to keep up with Scrivy on a 1229 kitted EFe, (his crusing speed was usually around 240k) as well as every bay park club day. There's another katana in the family that may not disappoint though. I'm sure Jay will demonstrate its capabilities eventually.

[sidecar bob]

don't worry, there are 4 cable ties securing the "pantry bike".

and its been load tested.
nodrog testing the mounting arrangements.

[Kickaha]

nodrog testing the mounting arrangements.

Well if it doesn't collapse with that fat cunt on it nothing short of controlled demoliton will see it fall down

[ellipsis]

nodrog testing the mounting arrangements.


...here's me thinking 'the poor cunt can't afford a shed', but it's the inside seating you can't afford ...silly me...

[Grumph]

nodrog testing the mounting arrangements.

Two things come to mind there...

La dolce vita - Tauranga style....and "you're too drunk, bro, spend the night here".....

[sidecar bob]

Yep, and when you look at Canadian pre 82 equivalent rules, Mags have to be solid spoke - no hollow spoke allowed which rules out most if not all the modern 17's - and sends you looking for Dymags...Our rules look pretty good compared to a lot of others.


Its probably the point you are making, but banning cheap & accesible second hand hollow spoke 17's sends everyone running for a set of exotic wheels worh about 4k a pair, if you have a spare set for wets thats 8k which is 2k less than the entire 371 bike owes me.
If I had to spend 8k on wheels Id take up another hobby that I could afford.
Having said that, some of tha Aussie teams were taking 5 engines worth 50k each to race meetings before they put a lid on that.

[malcy25]

I heard from a very reliable source that they (TZ750's) now cost about $60 to $70 a lap to run, most of us aren't up for that as a good 4 stroke would be a fraction of that. I'm sure malcy25 can confirm if this is the case.

Aye, the numbers are BIG. In 2001 when we got the first of the up to 3 in the garage that we were running we calculated 20 dollars a mile. $35 a lap at Puke.....

That was fuel, oil, pads, chains, tyres, pistons, rings, cranks rebuilds, seals. No entry fees, cylinder replate jobs or other damage.....

I haven't bothered to recalculate it now, but with piston life in the 500km range and 4 of them and cranks rebuilds in the 1000km-1300km range, things multiply out to a large number pretty quick! The good news is that the parts are available aftermarket, but mostly better made than original.

But, the first pull of the throttle makes it worth it (I can see why druggies get hooked if it's half as good as a big 4 cylinder two stroke hooking gears!) .....but you do get a little selective of when/how often you get them out.

The false(!) stroke boys probably do get a far easier time on the $/mile as while the parts may not be much different price wise, the service life mileages will be better and they are easier to ride on the limit than the big TZ. Wheel base and torque curve are in favour of the deisels for your average rider.

BUT being realistic, the really fast 4 stroke riders will be chewing parts too. Going fast is not cheap, whatever you ride.

[malcy25]

Having said that, some of tha Aussie teams were taking 5 engines worth 50k each to race meetings before they put a lid on that.

I think it's a bit of a myth than one - yes, if you got those guys to build you an engine, it was 20-25k cause I know a guy who asked the question! But the are more interested in investing their own time in their own engines. The actual parts costs if you ignored their own personal time, they are not a massive build price - they see it as fun, so happy to invest their own hours. And they had lots of engines from their 25 years of drag racing the things.

Time + parts + enthusiasm + skill = low cost motor in their world. Of which they had most of those elements already. Different story if you are outside looking in however 9and had to pay their time).....like most of their competition!

[malcy25]

Its probably the point you are making, but banning cheap & accesible second hand hollow spoke 17's sends everyone running for a set of exotic wheels worh about 4k a pair, if you have a spare set for wets thats 8k which is 2k less than the entire 371 bike owes me.
If I had to spend 8k on wheels Id take up another hobby that I could afford.
Having said that, some of tha Aussie teams were taking 5 engines worth 50k each to race meetings before they put a lid on that.

I thought I was paying up when a wheel set cost me a little less than $1k for some jap dymags (ie wreckers OEM fitment 17's)!

[sidecar bob]

I thought I was paying up when a wheel set cost me a little less than $1k for some jap dymags (ie wreckers OEM fitment 17's)!

Check out these Mofo's http://www.dymagsdirect.com/classic-ch3/
Thats $NZ2743 for the rear & $NZ1925 for the front for a total of $4668 for a pair including GST & I havent even included freight, Times two if you want a wet set & you have the best part of $9500 landed, so yeah, I was a bit off with my guess of 8K for a set of Four.

[Grumph]

Check out these Mofo's http://www.dymagsdirect.com/classic-ch3/
Thats $NZ2743 for the rear & $NZ1925 for the front for a total of $4668 for a pair including GST & I havent even included freight, Times two if you want a wet set & you have the best part of $9500 landed, so yeah, I was a bit off with my guess of 8K for a set of Four.

Reminds me of the Dallas Rankine story - new set of marchesini's, wrong colour. Off to the powder coaters to strip and recoat..
He hadn't heard for a week or so, rang up, to be told, oops, we dissolved them...Somewhere over 2 grand in the early 90's.