Space travel - EM propulsion breakthrough

[Winston001]

This is just weird. Electromagnetic propulsion from microwaves inside a cone. It violates the laws of physics and shouldn't work but...yeah.

The working theory (as best I can make out) is the microwaves use vacuum energy which is a quantum state, but frankly that's the equivalent of saying its magic.


http://io9.com/new-test-suggests-nasas-impossible-em-drive-will-work-1701188933

[bogan]

I think the violation of the laws of physics is just a media sploosh. Obviously some smart bugger has a theory grounded in quantum physics as to why it should work.

It's cool though, wonder what the energy to thrust ratio is like.

[Winston001]

Pretty good thrust apparently but not yet. In theory it could produce 30kN/kW which means a kitchen microwave could move a car. Maybe.

But the violation of classical physics is real enough. Action and reaction. Normally a rocket engine spits out high energy (flames/particles) in one direction and the rocket travels in the opposite direction.

In this EM thing, all the energy is contained within a cone - nothing is spat out. Nevertheless a force acts on the wide end and pushes the cone forward. It harnesses vacuum energy - quantum stuff = magic.

Damn I hope this doesn't go the way of cold fusion.

[Mike.Gayner]

Obviously it doesnt breach the laws of physics, it just acts in a way that we don't fully understand. To describe something which doesn't follow classical mechanics as "breaking the laws of physics" is a bit stupid seeing as classical mechanics is known to be an incomplete theory.

[unstuck]

Been around for millions of years, it is just that most people do not understand who and what they are. :msn-wink:

[TheDemonLord]

I think the violation of the laws of physics is just a media sploosh. Obviously some smart bugger has a theory grounded in quantum physics as to why it should work.

It's cool though, wonder what the energy to thrust ratio is like.

or we have discovered something our current model of physics doesn't account for....


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[bogan]

Pretty good thrust apparently but not yet. In theory it could produce 30kN/kW which means a kitchen microwave could move a car. Maybe.

But the violation of classical physics is real enough. Action and reaction. Normally a rocket engine spits out high energy (flames/particles) in one direction and the rocket travels in the opposite direction.

In this EM thing, all the energy is contained within a cone - nothing is spat out. Nevertheless a force acts on the wide end and pushes the cone forward. It harnesses vacuum energy - quantum stuff = magic.

Damn I hope this doesn't go the way of cold fusion.

Makes me think of this stuff...

http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Impeller_drive

Doesn't have to spit out anything if it can find purchase in the void.

[R650R]

From JSF
"China definitely invented impulse drive, and Nasa may have come up with warp drive.
I have read up on the reports and discarded the disinfo and fluff. Here is the skinny:

By taking a standard microwave oven magnetron and placing it in a cone shaped metallic structure, the Chinese, beyond a doubt, have come up with an impulse drive that could, if powered by a nuclear reactor (obviously with a much larger magnetron) get a large spacecraft to Mars in less than a week, as it is RIGHT NOW. There is a lot of fluff trying to cover this up by quoting only thrust levels from Nasa's far less successful efforts that would get to mars in 90 days.

It would be able to do it with only nuclear fuel, with absolutely nothing expelled from the spacecraft. The only limit to travel would be how long the reactor and thruster lasted. This system could get to the nearest star (other than the sun) in about 8 years, AS IT IS NOW, not the 90 years Nasa quoted.



To compliment this, Nasa probably has the beginnings of warp drive
Nasa scientists have noted a temporal distortion in front of one of their latest projects (which appears as a mirage effect) that is 40 times in excess of what the input power could account for in terms of a distortion created by a mirage due to heating of the air. They are guessing it is a real compression of space / time. The power levels they are using are so low that scaling them up to something useful would be easy. They will be testing this in a vacuum, where if the mirage effect still appears will prove it really does work. This, if successfully coupled to the already proven successful and fully explainable testable and observable chinese "impulse drive" would make star trek like space travel a reality, with the impulse engines providing the velocity needed to make a warp bubble useful.

You sort of have to be a trekkie to know what I am talking about with regard to a warp bubble . . . . .

At any rate, it will all be good if it worked, ONLY IF the "elite" could avoid being the destroying aliens on independence day. Don't hold your breath for hope, I really do think they are that bad. We'd be galactic parasites if not full blown terrorists if they found a way to make it happen.

How fast is the speed of light? Actually, not very fast. With a standard acceleration of 32 feet per second (1 g) you would hit the speed of light in less than a year. Any real thruster technology would do that with ease. The Chinese impulse drive will probably eventually hit that level with refinements. The thrust is real already, not just a fringe effect with theoretical hopes.

Speed of light at 1g: 32x3600x24x365/5280 = 191,127 miles/second with 1 year of acceleration. Speed of light = 186,000 miles / second. Even impulse drive would be super useful at 1 g, Alpha Centauri, fully parked, in 5.5 years!"

[Tazz]

Probably won't see anything of consequence from it in our lifetime sadly, but fawking awesome none the less!


or we have discovered something our current model of physics doesn't account for....


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Queue portals to parallel dimensions!

[Swoop]

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1113382558/no-nasa-did-not-accidentally-invent-the-warp-drive-050115/

[Flip]

Just like cold fusion........

It's in the internet so it must be true.

Meanwhile monkeys fly out my butt.

[Winston001]

Obviously it doesnt breach the laws of physics, it just acts in a way that we don't fully understand. To describe something which doesn't follow classical mechanics as "breaking the laws of physics" is a bit stupid seeing as classical mechanics is known to be an incomplete theory.

True.

The thing is, the EM shouldn't work at all. Quantum mechanics doesn't explain it - yet.

The theory is that somehow the microwave energy impels vacuum energy to push the cone away but the theory isn't proven. Its never been seen before.

Of course what will happen now is an obscure paper by a Bulgarian or Russian scientist in the '60s will be discovered predicting this. :msn-wink:

[Winston001]

From JSF
"China definitely invented impulse drive, and Nasa may have come up with warp drive.
I have read up on the reports and discarded the disinfo and fluff. Here is the skinny:

By taking a standard microwave oven magnetron and placing it in a cone shaped metallic structure, the Chinese, beyond a doubt, have come up with an impulse drive that could, if powered by a nuclear reactor (obviously with a much larger magnetron) get a large spacecraft to Mars in less than a week, as it is RIGHT NOW. There is a lot of fluff trying to cover this up by quoting only thrust levels from Nasa's far less successful efforts that would get to mars in 90 days.

It would be able to do it with only nuclear fuel, with absolutely nothing expelled from the spacecraft. The only limit to travel would be how long the reactor and thruster lasted. This system could get to the nearest star (other than the sun) in about 8 years, AS IT IS NOW, not the 90 years Nasa quoted.



To compliment this, Nasa probably has the beginnings of warp drive
Nasa scientists have noted a temporal distortion in front of one of their latest projects (which appears as a mirage effect) that is 40 times in excess of what the input power could account for in terms of a distortion created by a mirage due to heating of the air. They are guessing it is a real compression of space / time. The power levels they are using are so low that scaling them up to something useful would be easy. They will be testing this in a vacuum, where if the mirage effect still appears will prove it really does work. This, if successfully coupled to the already proven successful and fully explainable testable and observable chinese "impulse drive" would make star trek like space travel a reality, with the impulse engines providing the velocity needed to make a warp bubble useful.

You sort of have to be a trekkie to know what I am talking about with regard to a warp bubble . . . . .

At any rate, it will all be good if it worked, ONLY IF the "elite" could avoid being the destroying aliens on independence day. Don't hold your breath for hope, I really do think they are that bad. We'd be galactic parasites if not full blown terrorists if they found a way to make it happen.

How fast is the speed of light? Actually, not very fast. With a standard acceleration of 32 feet per second (1 g) you would hit the speed of light in less than a year. Any real thruster technology would do that with ease. The Chinese impulse drive will probably eventually hit that level with refinements. The thrust is real already, not just a fringe effect with theoretical hopes.

Speed of light at 1g: 32x3600x24x365/5280 = 191,127 miles/second with 1 year of acceleration. Speed of light = 186,000 miles / second. Even impulse drive would be super useful at 1 g, Alpha Centauri, fully parked, in 5.5 years!"

Good find.

One possibility is that space/time in front of the pointy end of the cone is compressed (warped) which allows the cone to move vast distances in space. Lightspeed isn't broken - instead the cone moves to a different point in space.

Who knows. Humans might not be able to live around the cone. Interesting stuff.

[mossy1200]

Eventually someone will find a way or blow up earth trying.

My theory is black holes were created by human like species fiddling with shit all over the universe.

[Laava]

So, this is similar to the old, "bumblebees can't technically fly but cos they don't know it, they just go ahead anyway" story?

[Laava]

Eventually someone will find a way or blow up earth trying.

My theory is black holes were created by human like species fiddling with shit all over the universe.

Like those french cunts fucking about with cheese?

[Hitcher]

Such technology is not the answer for viable space travel.

Linear propulsion, no matter how fast, in a universe where distances between potentially habitable planets are many light-years away, and where the ability to travel linearly faster than the speed of light may be impossible, is largely pointless because it brings time into play. Vast tracts of time.

How many people would want to visit Europe if the journey each way took more than two years?

Unless a technology is developed that takes the time component out of interstellar journeys, something like a "cat-door" between the folds in the space-time continuum, then people are never going to go anywhere further than the Moon.

[MisterD]

Linear propulsion, no matter how fast, in a universe where distances between potentially habitable planets are many light-years away, and where the ability to travel linearly faster than the speed of light may be impossible, is largely pointless because it brings time into play. Vast tracts of time.

True enough, if by "space travel" you mean the ability for a person to hop around the place in a Star Wars-y kind of way. This technology looks good for the other popular Sci-Fi concept of a "Generation Ship" where travel becomes a one-way deal and it's the decendents of the original crew that eventually arrive.

[TheDemonLord]

Such technology is not the answer for viable space travel.

Linear propulsion, no matter how fast, in a universe where distances between potentially habitable planets are many light-years away, and where the ability to travel linearly faster than the speed of light may be impossible, is largely pointless because it brings time into play. Vast tracts of time.

How many people would want to visit Europe if the journey each way took more than two years?

Unless a technology is developed that takes the time component out of interstellar journeys, something like a "cat-door" between the folds in the space-time continuum, then people are never going to go anywhere further than the Moon.

Journeys of many months, even years were common in the days of exploring the great unknown - Space IMO is simply the greatest unknown - the real thing is - with such vast distances, should something go wrong, it is a death sentance.

[Flip]

As you approach the speed of light time slows down for the crew.

If you had enough energy that is.

[Banditbandit]

This is just weird. Electromagnetic propulsion from microwaves inside a cone. It violates the laws of physics and shouldn't work but...yeah.

The working theory (as best I can make out) is the microwaves use vacuum energy which is a quantum state, but frankly that's the equivalent of saying its magic.


http://io9.com/new-test-suggests-nasas-impossible-em-drive-will-work-1701188933



"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C Clarke

[Banditbandit]

Can it be fitted on a motorcycle ? And when does racing begin???

[oldrider]

Instead of stupid unnecessary (expensive in every way) wars we could be doing more stuff like this: https://vimeo.com/102201315

[Swoop]

Can it be fitted on a motorcycle ? And when does racing begin???

First one to get to the carpark of The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, wins!

[Banditbandit]

First one to get to the carpark of The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, wins!

"I've seen it. It's rubbish," said Zaphod,"nothing but a gnab gib."

[speedpro]

There's a square law involved with increases in speed and the energy required to achieve that increase. The propulsion is fixed so the rate of acceleration will decrease as speed increases. The journey times would seem optimistic. I think.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Been around for millions of years, it is just that most people do not understand who and what they are. :msn-wink:

Yeah man, those of us who channel the Pleiadeans know whats what.

Also on space.com there was a story that in fact (sadly) NASA had not invented the warp drive.

not yet anyways.

[Swoop]

Just fly to Mars and land. Hell, we have been to the moon - so how hard could it be going to Mars then?

http://www.airspacemag.com/space/mars-dilemma-180952797/?no-ist


Bloody interesting stuff here.

[HenryDorsetCase]

As you approach the speed of light time slows down for the crew.

If you had enough energy that is.

indeed. As explained by Doctor Brian May in his lecture on the subject, which I recommend to you:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Ti9EA_ks28" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ti9EA_ks28

[Winston001]

Meanwhile in Austraya

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-32598767

[Ocean1]

Meanwhile in Austraya

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-32598767

So it wasn't LGMs at all?

Just an LG.

[Banditbandit]

Meanwhile in Austraya

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-32598767

'stra'ians aye .. crap at rugby league ... marginally better at science ... "opened the micro-wave door" :laugh: :rofl: :clap: