View Full Version : Black boxes on bikes?
awa355
8th May 2015, 02:11
Coming to a bike near you someday??? Probably not in my riding lifetime but something tells me they will be required by law one day.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20143969
What are your thoughts?
Gremlin
8th May 2015, 04:21
I suspect on my BMW it's already recording some stuff, as the dealer can see stuff like throttle openings and get a general idea of how the bike is being ridden. Of course they angle it in terms of fault finding, ie, you apply 100% throttle for the fault to occur.
Only difference is that the police can't just plug into it. So we're probably not that far away already?
rastuscat
8th May 2015, 05:28
Be afraid, be very afraid. :devil2:
For the next three weeks anyway.
nzspokes
8th May 2015, 06:27
Already happening in the form of phone apps that track you for better rates at insurance companys.
Voltaire
8th May 2015, 07:32
there was something similar on the tele last night, some local bus company were trialing a box that showed when you were driving the best.
I did see a thing on Google that shows where your phone travels on a map....eek
I imagine insurance companies could give you a 'discount' to load an app like the walking ones to track you speed.
( so Sir, your phone says you were doing 140 kmph when you stopped suddenly.."
The technology is already, definitely, there.
Anyone on home detention is fully GPS monitored now (in the last month or so there was a change in bracelet that is worn) and this is fully tracking the individual.
The parole officer can look up exactly where the person has been and at what time.
Exactly the same as vehicular tracking ability. Big Brother says "hi!".
rastuscat
8th May 2015, 08:22
Already happening in the form of phone apps that track you for better rates at insurance companys.
You know those signs in the major cities that tell you the travel time to a place you might be going to? They work by polling inactive bluetooth devices passing by.
A sensor detects the ID of a bluetooth device which is switched on, even if it isn't connected to a device. It detects it anyway. When that same bluetooth ID passes another detector, the system knows how long it took that device to travel between the two sensors.
It then uses that gathered info to predict a travel time, and auto updates the signs.
No privacy is breached, as the system doesn't know who had which bluetooth ID, so it's not tlike they track us. But that's a couple of steps from being possible.
Mike.Gayner
8th May 2015, 08:28
I did see a thing on Google that shows where your phone travels on a map....eek
Anyone who has location services turned on (that's most people with an Android phone) can see where they've been in the last 30 days here:
https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0
My map:
http://i.imgur.com/G3ut0ZN.png
TheDemonLord
8th May 2015, 09:28
So you mean you could get your morning speedru.. I mean commute verified and set a record?!?!
Awesome!
caspernz
8th May 2015, 09:32
You know those signs in the major cities that tell you the travel time to a place you might be going to? They work by polling inactive bluetooth devices passing by.
A sensor detects the ID of a bluetooth device which is switched on, even if it isn't connected to a device. It detects it anyway. When that same bluetooth ID passes another detector, the system knows how long it took that device to travel between the two sensors.
It then uses that gathered info to predict a travel time, and auto updates the signs.
No privacy is breached, as the system doesn't know who had which bluetooth ID, so it's not tlike they track us. But that's a couple of steps from being possible.
Yes, one of your colleagues explained that to me about a year or so ago. The funny thing is, how long until this innocuous technology (and corresponding legislation) is "upgraded" to dish out speeding tickets as we cruise on by...
pritch
8th May 2015, 10:06
There was an article in the motorcycle press maybe two years ago now (?). They were concerned that there are one or two manufacturers who are already fitting black boxes as described in the original post to some models. The box is not part of the engine management system, it is seperate and designed to perform a similar function to the ones in aircraft
Could be a problem if following an accident you were in court telling the judge your side of the story and the :Police: stands up and says, "According to the data we recovered from his machine he was doing 160kph in 4th gear while heading east at 2.00PM - in a school zone."
Can't remember which makes were guilty of installing this nastiness but have a vague idea Kawasaki might have been one.
You know those signs in the major cities that tell you the travel time to a place you might be going to? They work by polling inactive bluetooth devices passing by.
A sensor detects the ID of a bluetooth device which is switched on, even if it isn't connected to a device. It detects it anyway. When that same bluetooth ID passes another detector, the system knows how long it took that device to travel between the two sensors.
It then uses that gathered info to predict a travel time, and auto updates the signs.
No privacy is breached, as the system doesn't know who had which bluetooth ID, so it's not tlike they track us. But that's a couple of steps from being possible.
A similar system operates on GPS nav devices in cars. A story came out about five years ago of TomTom actually selling the data to the USA Highway Patrols. Its anonymous like you say but all of a sudden the cops are staking out the good bits of road where lots of people are speeding that they previously ignored. Suspect something similar is happening in NZ as Highway patrols are now getting too good at hiding in remote places where they never used to go.
The data is not really anonymous either. Although the 'system' doesn't know who that Bluetooth ID is it can be found out in the event of a major investigation. Many of these system record this info long term like the cellphone companies do, whats that you say??? The cellphone companies sell data to advertisers and other interested parties on cellphone movements. Everytime you move between towers that is a data set about a consumers movements and shopping habits. For the phone companies its about where to build more towers, for others it gives data on what times people shop and what places they prefer.
Now all of this data is stored as data storage is very cheap.
Now once a device is found in a vehicle involved in a major fatal accident the appropriate warrants can be used to access all this data. Yes its time consuming and difficult hence why you don't hear of it being used much as often police have other evidence already backing their case, but it is out there.
There was a case in HB quite a few years back when cellphones weren't as flash as they are now. A bunch of young ones went through a red light and got killed in collision with a truck, no witnesses.
The police accessed celltower records that showed in the five to ten mins before hand that the car was averaging high speeds above limit and there fore likely to have been the one that ran the red light.
The systems you linked are hardwired into the vehicle, which is something of a concern, as you have no control over them.
The only Insurance Company in NZ using this technology, is Tower, with the Smart Driver app. Big difference is that this is an app on your phone, that you control, and you have a gaurantee data will never be shared with authorities or used to determine fault in a claim.
The principal is sound, evidence has shown that smooth careful drivers have less claims, so I think it is a good idea, but then I am biased.
The idea of little black boxes being installed into cars or bikes though would have me worried.
Ender EnZed
8th May 2015, 17:34
The article is more than 2.5 years old. I wonder what the case is these days.
Can't see it being good business for the first motorcycle insurance company to try it in NZ.
rastuscat
8th May 2015, 17:39
I have a black box on my private bike.
I keep my gloves in it when I'm not riding.
Just sayin.
Sorry team, I'm becoming more and more frivolous as my big day becons.
Ender EnZed
8th May 2015, 17:43
I have a black box on my private bike.
I keep my gloves in it when I'm not riding.
Just sayin.
Sorry team, I'm becoming more and more frivolous as my big day becons.
Is it your lucky piece of liquorice?
I have been expermenting with GPS location tracking using APRS (auto position reporting system) on both the cellular and digital repeater network.
The rozza are targeting the company I work for. A short while ago I was stoped and interogated by a snake who claimed I was seen speeding. He will be in for a suprise next time.
mossy1200
8th May 2015, 17:56
Not sure any company selling 1k superbikes will drop a crime prevention black box into it. Would be like marketplace suicide.
If you had black box with 4km tolerance everyone would gain 100 penalty points within days. Still no licence means no speeding. Country would go broke but we wouldn't crash.
Big difference is that this is an app on your phone, that you control, and you have a gaurantee data will never be shared with authorities or used to determine fault in a claim.
The idea of little black boxes being installed into cars or bikes though would have me worried.
When it comes to a serious crash investigation that guarantee wont mean shit, Police powers of investigation trump any trivial privacy offered as courtesy by private vendors.
Also they might not use data to determine fault but they sure as hell will use it as fraud investigation if your story doesn't match the data.
People should ignore these apps, you can get a decent discount/deal with good broker without helping mainstream bigbrother.
BTW all cars (and prob bikes) manufactured for the USA market since 2005 have black box with remote engine kill by govt mandate. Since many of these are part of the engine CPUU they are probably in other markets like NZ as well. The technology is not active yet due to political reasons but its there in those vehicles.
I have been expermenting with GPS location tracking using APRS (auto position reporting system) on both the cellular and digital repeater network.
The rozza are targeting the company I work for. A short while ago I was stoped and interogated by a snake who claimed I was seen speeding. He will be in for a suprise next time.
Do NOT mention your GPS to the cop, that then gives them probably cause to seize the records and cross examine against (assume your in truck) logbook.
The last guy I knew who did that ended up in court and lucky to get off on technicality...
When it comes to a serious crash investigation that guarantee wont mean shit, Police powers of investigation trump any trivial privacy offered as courtesy by private vendors.
Also they might not use data to determine fault but they sure as hell will use it as fraud investigation if your story doesn't match the data.
People should ignore these apps, you can get a decent discount/deal with good broker without helping mainstream bigbrother.
BTW all cars (and prob bikes) manufactured for the USA market since 2005 have black box with remote engine kill by govt mandate. Since many of these are part of the engine CPUU they are probably in other markets like NZ as well. The technology is not active yet due to political reasons but its there in those vehicles.
Yep, investigation overrides all other guarantees
Just as well we dont have a guilty until proven innocent justice system:rolleyes:
Definitely this was a big selling point being able to remotely shut down the motor. A friend on mine was quite proud of the fact as he worked near the LA airport, car theft was prevalent then.
A few years later a company I worked for brought a vehicle for testing, the agent told him the next day exactly what it had been doing, position, speed, temp etc, just as well we didnt do any burn outs aye.:shifty:
Black Box on motorcycles you say?
Looks like it has already been done..:lol::lol:
Do NOT mention your GPS to the cop, that then gives them probably cause to seize the records and cross examine against (assume your in truck) logbook.
The last guy I knew who did that ended up in court and lucky to get off on technicality...
Good fucking luck to them. The data is stored on a computer at a ham radio operators house in Sweden, I have access. I doubt mr plod has the ability or inclination to get it. Its also a fucking long way from the donut shop.
Good fucking luck to them. The data is stored on a computer at a ham radio operators house in Sweden, I have access. I doubt mr plod has the ability or inclination to get it. Its also a fucking long way from the donut shop.
awesome, got to get a CAPEX for a worldwide donut run, seeking out donut shops along the way:love: not the chocolate ones.
Now how can I organise a bike ride between each shoppe.
any one else coming?
Good fucking luck to them. The data is stored on a computer at a ham radio operators house in Sweden, I have access. I doubt mr plod has the ability or inclination to get it. Its also a fucking long way from the donut shop.
You have access. When Plod turns up and tells you to hand over the records/access forthwith (that's plod speak for do it right now bitch or they'll be trouble) you will do it or be charged with obstruction/withholding evidence etc...
No different to seizing emails/text messages that may be on foreign servers also.
You have access. When Plod turns up and tells you to hand over the records/access forthwith you will do it or be charged with obstruction/withholding evidence etc...
:killingme
help the police. right.
one has the right not to incriminate themselves... even under legislation.
as for obstruction, that one is so hilariously bullshit that i just :laugh:
pritch
9th May 2015, 11:38
You have access. When Plod turns up and tells you to hand over the records/access forthwith (that's plod speak for do it right now bitch or they'll be trouble) you will do it or be charged with obstruction/withholding evidence etc...
So I'm a bit puzzled as to how the cops here would know anyone had data stored on a computer in Sweden? Assuming that someone was not so stupid as to actually tell them.
In the USA cops don't like being filmed despite the fact that it's completely legal. They will sometimes seize or just destroy the phone. There was a recent clip of a US Marshall taking a phone off a woman bystander, stamping on it repeatedly, then kicking it down the footpath. He didn't see the other guy filming from across the road.
So now the protesters, and other interested parties, use an app that instantly uploads video to the 'Net as it's being recorded.
No longer can the police destroy incriminating evidence simply by destroying a phone.
So I'm a bit puzzled as to how the cops here would know anyone had data stored on a computer in Sweden? Assuming that someone was not so stupid as to actually tell them.
In the USA cops don't like being filmed despite the fact that it's completely legal. They will sometimes seize or just destroy the phone. There was a recent clip of a US Marshall taking a phone off a woman bystander, stamping on it repeatedly, then kicking it down the footpath. He didn't see the other guy filming from across the road.
So now the protesters, and other interested parties, use an app that instantly uploads video to the 'Net as it's being recorded.
No longer can the police destroy incriminating evidence simply by destroying a phone.
Seize the phone, check the web addresses etc, seize you home and work stuff
Ah yes, so you would think. there is the internet police as well.
Were is the internet run from exactly?
Why is there so much cyber hacking etc and it is being run by whom?
I often think the antivirus community is just a lot of guys sitting around devising viruses and finding solutions for us to pay for.
Make s you think how much of the computers processing power is used to do stuff such as antivirus, maliscious software checks, updates, system searches (windows 8.1) etc
compared to what we the user actually use it for.
:killingme
help the police. right.
one has the right not to incriminate themselves... even under legislation.
as for obstruction, that one is so hilariously bullshit that i just :laugh:
The right to remain silent is about all that is barely left. However even that goes against you as it looks like you have something to hide if you don't engage in a constructive dialogue and they have other evidence/indicators/witnesses etc...
There's a lot of shite on TV cop shows like citizens arrest etc that bears no reality to our modern day real rights...
So I'm a bit puzzled as to how the cops here would know anyone had data stored on a computer in Sweden? Assuming that someone was not so stupid as to actually tell them.
In the USA cops don't like being filmed despite the fact that it's completely legal. They will sometimes seize or just destroy the phone. There was a recent clip of a US Marshall taking a phone off a woman bystander, stamping on it repeatedly, then kicking it down the footpath. He didn't see the other guy filming from across the road.
So now the protesters, and other interested parties, use an app that instantly uploads video to the 'Net as it's being recorded.
No longer can the police destroy incriminating evidence simply by destroying a phone.
All my posts in reply to this issue inferred that the prospective defendant told the cops as it was originally mentioned as data to back a defence by the the poster concerned and in the case I reffered to.
Yes American cops don't like being filmed, which makes it even more bizarre in that shooting case that they didn't engage in witness intimidation/phone smashing. I mean how does one cold bloodily shoot an unarmed offender in the back then not try and destroy the evidence that will lock them up or death penalty....
GrayWolf
9th May 2015, 12:43
I have a black box on my private bike.
I keep my gloves in it when I'm not riding.
Just sayin.
Sorry team, I'm becoming more and more frivolous as my big day becons.
so you have a 'black box' you keep your private bits in??? does Mrs Rastus know of this? Just askin :devil2:
pritch
9th May 2015, 16:35
Yes American cops don't like being filmed, which makes it even more bizarre in that shooting case that they didn't engage in witness intimidation/phone smashing. I mean how does one cold bloodily shoot an unarmed offender in the back then not try and destroy the evidence that will lock them up or death penalty....
We can't know, but I don't think that cop realised it was all being recorded. It would be a bit pointless planting eveidence to support his bullshit story if he knew that he was being filmed.
In two other recent cases the people who filmed the cops killing someone have subsequently been busted for drug posession, whether they had drugs or not, and they are now locked up.
You have access. When Plod turns up and tells you to hand over the records/access forthwith (that's plod speak for do it right now bitch or they'll be trouble) you will do it or be charged with obstruction/withholding evidence etc...
No different to seizing emails/text messages that may be on foreign servers also.
I don't know what planet you live on but the rozza here have no such powers. If they even tried it here the evedence would not be able to be used in court.
yevjenko
9th May 2015, 17:46
Be afraid, be very afraid. :devil2:
For the next three weeks anyway.
Counting down the days are we? :)
What happens for you after you leave?
yevjenko
9th May 2015, 18:02
You have access. When Plod turns up and tells you to hand over the records/access forthwith (that's plod speak for do it right now bitch or they'll be trouble) you will do it or be charged with obstruction/withholding evidence etc...
No different to seizing emails/text messages that may be on foreign servers also.
Err no. You do not have to hand over any data of your own.
Also note that gps it's not legally binding in a court of law - this works both ways, you can not prove your innocence with your own gps recordings and they cannot seize your gps and use it against you
ellipsis
9th May 2015, 18:34
...I have a black box on my Wing...big spiders live in it along with some very dry pine needles...it has a vinyl push button cover...it's quite scary...
I don't know what planet you live on but the rozza here have no such powers. If they even tried it here the evedence would not be able to be used in court.
I live on the planet where it has happened and they do have the powers.
I sat in the court room listening as the cop explained how he obtained the evidence, as the manager of the company also testified how the data was turned over to police.
The judge and the defence team had absolutely no problem with how the evidence was obtained.
In the end the case failed over a minor technical error that the police are unlikely to make again. The lawyer was a very high calibre well respected one too.
My colleague who I was there to support was lucky that although there was a stack of charges there was no injury/accident involved so the cops had been little slack on their homework.
Err no. You do not have to hand over any data of your own.
Also note that gps it's not legally binding in a court of law - this works both ways, you can not prove your innocence with your own gps recordings and they cannot seize your gps and use it against you
GPS data on speed is fully accepted as respectable evidence in NZ court for speed. This was stated by the judge in above mentioned case and has been accepted in various serious accident cases.
In regards of location and time no precedents have been set but a current major trial in Akld may change/correct that.
GPS data on speed is fully accepted as respectable evidence in NZ court for speed. This was stated by the judge in above mentioned case and has been accepted in various serious accident cases.
In regards of location and time no precedents have been set but a current major trial in Akld may change/correct that.
surprised this hasnt come up before, use of cell phone tower addresses to track phone and average rate of speed would have to be going a fair distance.
Just as well the Scorpio can just do 100.
rastuscat
10th May 2015, 07:56
Counting down the days are we? :)
What happens for you after you leave?
I endorsement and a job as a motorcycle instructor.
I'm thinking of getting a camera to provide feedback to punters but is all this Go Pro BS getting out of hand? So many of us seem to be videoing stuff for some purpose then grizzling when it drops us in the shit.
pritch
10th May 2015, 10:19
surprised this hasnt come up before, use of cell phone tower addresses to track phone and average rate of speed would have to be going a fair distance.
Yet another compelling reason to travel with the cell phone switched off.
I live on the planet where it has happened and they do have the powers.
I sat in the court room listening as the cop explained how he obtained the evidence, as the manager of the company also testified how the data was turned over to police.
The judge and the defence team had absolutely no problem with how the evidence was obtained.
In the end the case failed over a minor technical error that the police are unlikely to make again. The lawyer was a very high calibre well respected one too.
My colleague who I was there to support was lucky that although there was a stack of charges there was no injury/accident involved so the cops had been little slack on their homework.
Nice bunch of cunts you work for.
What was he charge with? I take it was some thing criminal.
baffa
11th May 2015, 17:39
I live on the planet where it has happened and they do have the powers.
I sat in the court room listening as the cop explained how he obtained the evidence, as the manager of the company also testified how the data was turned over to police.
The judge and the defence team had absolutely no problem with how the evidence was obtained.
In the end the case failed over a minor technical error that the police are unlikely to make again. The lawyer was a very high calibre well respected one too.
My colleague who I was there to support was lucky that although there was a stack of charges there was no injury/accident involved so the cops had been little slack on their homework.
Whilst you are right (spoke with someone in the know), and there is nothing to stop the police issuing an order demanding the data be released, it is a phone app. It doesn't monitor the driver, amongst many other factors, so it's far from condeming.
It's all rather acedemic for bikes anyway, the whole point is monitoring how smoothly you accellerate and decellerate etc. Even an asthmatic 250 typically accellerates at speeds the app would consider excessive, and therefore mark you down on.
FJRider
11th May 2015, 18:15
GPS data on speed is fully accepted as respectable evidence in NZ court for speed. This was stated by the judge in above mentioned case and has been accepted in various serious accident cases.
In regards of location and time no precedents have been set but a current major trial in Akld may change/correct that.
GPS logs have been common on many vehicles in varied transport industry.
GPS is often/usually installed in the vehicles to provide accurate knowledge of that vehicles location to predict arrival/delivery times. The "Other" information delivered ... is that firms downside ..
The confiscation of the data they provide ... has often been made by police. Nothing new there ...
R650R
11th May 2015, 22:29
Nothing new here
And your point was????????????????????????????????????????? Don't worry its a rhetorical questions.....................
R650R
11th May 2015, 22:31
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/teach-me/68435451/the-problems-with-the-explosion-in-fitness-tracking
"They worry that wearables will be used as "black boxes" for a person's body in legal matters. Three years ago, after a San Francisco cyclist struck and killed a 71-year-old pedestrian, prosecutors obtained his data from Strava, a GPS-enabled fitness tracker, to show he had been speeding and blew through several stop signs before the accident."
Akzle
12th May 2015, 07:09
the internet of things
for your convinience
caspernz
12th May 2015, 07:31
Yet another compelling reason to travel with the cell phone switched off.
When out on the bike, and straying a little over the odds on occasion...yes absolutely valid way of thinking.
Nice bunch of cunts you work for.
What was he charge with? I take it was some thing criminal.
If you're trucking along with a GPS tracker, best your logbook match what you do. Modern trucking 101.
R650R
12th May 2015, 08:42
Whilst you are right (spoke with someone in the know), and there is nothing to stop the police issuing an order demanding the data be released, it is a phone app. It doesn't monitor the driver, amongst many other factors, so it's far from condeming.
It's all rather acedemic for bikes anyway, the whole point is monitoring how smoothly you accellerate and decellerate etc. Even an asthmatic 250 typically accellerates at speeds the app would consider excessive, and therefore mark you down on.
Yes I agree. But in court a series of questions from decent prosecutor will establish that the accused owns the device and therefore the device present is/was recording their actions.
All I'm trying to get across to people is that these devices from trackers/phones gopro can all help send your virgin arse to prison in right circumstances so best to be cautious in there use and not use them to argue with cops a few km'h on speed ticket.
R650R
12th May 2015, 08:51
Nice bunch of cunts you work for.
What was he charge with? I take it was some thing criminal.
Used to, I've moved up now to someone more reputable.
But in saying that the company and driver concerned wasn't really doing much different to everyone else out there.
To cut a long story short over 300 separate occasions where the electronic data didn't match up with the drivers location records, fuel station time receipts, and also speed limits.
As they only picked out one driver from a medium size company one can conclude their probable cause was when he told a cop he had gps in truck and tried to argue a 2km/h difference in speed ticket.
While it only truckers being targeted by the electronic matrix at the moment all this crap will land on car drivers and bikers soon too.
Just want people to realise these fancy gadgets can be your undoing so easy, use with caution if you have fun on the roads from time to time...
baffa
12th May 2015, 14:11
Yes I agree. But in court a series of questions from decent prosecutor will establish that the accused owns the device and therefore the device present is/was recording their actions.
All I'm trying to get across to people is that these devices from trackers/phones gopro can all help send your virgin arse to prison in right circumstances so best to be cautious in there use and not use them to argue with cops a few km'h on speed ticket.
Not really. Say there is a hit and run, and a vehicle matching the description of mine was seen fleeing from the scene, yes potentially they could requesition the data, but this is making a huge assumption that they would even know the app was recording.
I could waltz into court, and claim the vehicle had been borrowed/stolen or whatever. If they cannot prove I was driving (anyone can use my phone or walk into my house and grab my car keys), they cannot take any action, even if they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was my vehicle.
To be fair, in such scenarios you are actually worried about, (remember police dont investigate minor matters, only where injuries have been sustained or charges will occur) You'd be a dick for thinking about saving your own skin, and deserve any penalty levied at you.
Used to, I've moved up now to someone more reputable.
But in saying that the company and driver concerned wasn't really doing much different to everyone else out there.
To cut a long story short over 300 separate occasions where the electronic data didn't match up with the drivers location records, fuel station time receipts, and also speed limits.
As they only picked out one driver from a medium size company one can conclude their probable cause was when he told a cop he had gps in truck and tried to argue a 2km/h difference in speed ticket.
While it only truckers being targeted by the electronic matrix at the moment all this crap will land on car drivers and bikers soon too.
Just want people to realise these fancy gadgets can be your undoing so easy, use with caution if you have fun on the roads from time to time...
I used to work for a bunch of drop kicks who installed tracking in the work vehicles. I either used fuck with the thing all the time, the poor cunt in the office could not understand why my ute used to go places at 200+ kph and sometimes just dissapear off the face of the earth.
R650R
12th May 2015, 21:45
Not really. Say there is a hit and run, and a vehicle matching the description of mine was seen fleeing from the scene, yes potentially they could requesition the data, but this is making a huge assumption that they would even know the app was recording.
I could waltz into court, and claim the vehicle had been borrowed/stolen or whatever. If they cannot prove I was driving (anyone can use my phone or walk into my house and grab my car keys), they cannot take any action, even if they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was my vehicle.
To be fair, in such scenarios you are actually worried about, (remember police dont investigate minor matters, only where injuries have been sustained or charges will occur) You'd be a dick for thinking about saving your own skin, and deserve any penalty levied at you.
So let me get this straight:
You end up involved in a hit and run, fatal or critical injuries.
Now the police have enough intel to suspect its you and in your own words can 'prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was your vehicle'. Now what comes next is different from your fantasyland version.
They will seize all potential evidence... they will interview the neighbours, family, friends/work colleagues and ascertaion who was likely using the vehicle. Given that your defence is that anyone can borrow your phone or car at any time they will no doubt ask everyone else how often this happens. They will interview you at length and all the obvious holes in such a story will show themselves up very quickly.
All in all a very hypothetical situation you've portrayed that even in hypothetical fairy tale land still wouldn't hold water.
baffa
13th May 2015, 17:12
So let me get this straight:
You end up involved in a hit and run, fatal or critical injuries.
Now the police have enough intel to suspect its you and in your own words can 'prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was your vehicle'. Now what comes next is different from your fantasyland version.
They will seize all potential evidence... they will interview the neighbours, family, friends/work colleagues and ascertaion who was likely using the vehicle. Given that your defence is that anyone can borrow your phone or car at any time they will no doubt ask everyone else how often this happens. They will interview you at length and all the obvious holes in such a story will show themselves up very quickly.
All in all a very hypothetical situation you've portrayed that even in hypothetical fairy tale land still wouldn't hold water.
Two things.
1. I am talking about a simple phone app used to obtain discount on insurance. Nothing attached to the phone. The chances the police would be aware of this app, let alone think to look for the data is pretty insignificant.
2. I wouldnt run. Ever. And those that do deserve the book thrown at them. I speed on a regular basis. If I get caught or cause an accident as a result, I accept this and move on.
PS: Years ago I had a friend who was involved in a minor hit and run using an old vehicle of mine. Police couldnt prove who was driving, but my friend was good enough to realise I didnt want that cloud hanging over me so put his hand up. If he hadnt no charges could have been laid, as it has to have been established beyond reasonable doubt who was driving.
Dave-
13th May 2015, 18:04
So hang on, GPS is accurate enough to prosecute you with? But not accurate enough to use as a defense?
jonnyk5614
29th May 2015, 12:17
The black boxes currently on cars record the speed at which the airbags were set off, i.e. the accident speed. That is how cops currently work out how fast we were going when we crashed.
So for bikes, no airbags therefore no black box - sweet. Also, if we've crashed, we've got other things on our mind....
The EU however is worried sick about us though and as a service to all of their dear residents, they are mandating that all new cars (and so far, it says "cars & light vans") be fitted with a technology called eCall.
This harmless device automatically contacts the police, over the mobile network, if you have a crash giving them the following details: Vehicle Type, Fuel Used, Time of Accident and Location.
So just to clarify, a device fitted with SIM card autonomously provides location and time information to the police. Should I be worried?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32495058
caspernz
29th May 2015, 12:27
So just to clarify, a device fitted with SIM card autonomously provides location and time information to the police. Should I be worried?
No need to worry, anything that works in Europe when it comes to road safety related matters, will definitely not work in NZ. But anything the Aussies try...watch out!
rambaldi
29th May 2015, 14:09
I endorsement and a job as a motorcycle instructor.
I'm thinking of getting a camera to provide feedback to punters but is all this Go Pro BS getting out of hand? So many of us seem to be videoing stuff for some purpose then grizzling when it drops us in the shit.
I did some advanced scuba training and all our dives for that were recorded. We ran through the footage afterwards looking at the skills we got right and what we got wrong, lots of tips to improve things and then the vids were deleted afterwards. I was pretty happy with that process, found it quite useful so I would say go for it.
Might be more of an issue on the bike as you would want to make sure the camera is always looking in the right spot, on the dive course we actually had an extra instructor that was doing the filming.
Definitely useful though; being able to see how much I improved over the days on film, when in person it felt like I was just getting more and more things wrong.
mossy1200
30th May 2015, 21:58
I remember seeing some news that with digital speedos they are able to work out what speed was being done by a vehicle prior to impact.
If your thick enough to point your gopro at your speedo this could be correct. Apparently easier to obtain the results if you post on youtube and facebook.
nzspokes
30th May 2015, 22:03
Used to, I've moved up now to someone more reputable.
But in saying that the company and driver concerned wasn't really doing much different to everyone else out there.
To cut a long story short over 300 separate occasions where the electronic data didn't match up with the drivers location records, fuel station time receipts, and also speed limits.
As they only picked out one driver from a medium size company one can conclude their probable cause was when he told a cop he had gps in truck and tried to argue a 2km/h difference in speed ticket.
While it only truckers being targeted by the electronic matrix at the moment all this crap will land on car drivers and bikers soon too.
Just want people to realise these fancy gadgets can be your undoing so easy, use with caution if you have fun on the roads from time to time...
What would be cool would be cameras in the cabs of trucks. So they can see when the driver takes a piss in a coke bottle then pours it out the window. All class.
jonnyk5614
1st June 2015, 23:30
I did some advanced scuba training and all our dives for that were recorded. We ran through the footage afterwards looking at the skills we got right and what we got wrong, lots of tips to improve things and then the vids were deleted afterwards. I was pretty happy with that process, found it quite useful so I would say go for it.
Might be more of an issue on the bike as you would want to make sure the camera is always looking in the right spot, on the dive course we actually had an extra instructor that was doing the filming.
Definitely useful though; being able to see how much I improved over the days on film, when in person it felt like I was just getting more and more things wrong.
When I did my full bike CBTA test with Phil McDaid, he had a GoPro on the front of his bike and gave me the video afterwards.
I found it really useful to review how my riding looks from a 3rd person perspective.
I sometimes GoPro on the bike, but it doesn't really tell me much as it sees what I saw when I was riding anyway! You can make cool little timelapses though :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y2TZPDTwIw
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