More detail on the new Africa Twin

[Night Falcon]

Was in Hamilton yesterday so had quick back to back compare of KTM vs Honda. The 1190 looks like a huge beast. A brand new KTM690 on floor looked SO SO GOOD.... Round the corner had a sit on an AT at Honda... Seems an appealing package.....

You can set up a new 690 for a bit less than the cost of the cheapest AT and you will get ABS, slipper clutch, couple of map adjustments, better suspended and some "character".... plus a more off road focused advbike.

BUT I'm reliable informed there's going to be an adventurised (i.e 21inch front wheeled) 1090 from Mr Mattacoffin neck year as well as the long awaited, much anticipated, over inflated, underrated, soon to be extricated 800adventure.....so might be worth holding on to the DR a bit longer. (not that I'm advocating being a first owner of a newly developed KTM given their infamous history of 1st production run lemons...08 530, 08 690, 07 990, 2013 1190, 2012 250 freeride....etc etc and so on and so forth.....theyz boyz got a bad habit of getting their loyal fan base to become part of the KTM development team for no pay! )

[Scubbo]

yamaha is supposed to be bringing out an adventure bike based on MT-07 in 2017 / back to the Tenere style

[george formby]

I think Honda should maybe bring out a 650 Africa Twin as they no longer make the Transalp. Having ridden both bikes I did not find the Transalp any less torquey but the Africa Twin was smoother and more comfortable.


I think we live in interesting times. The Adventure world is awash with behemoth, over specced and over priced bikes. I mean. over priced if you can't afford one and they are a lot of bike if your into "whats up there?" riding.

The on line speculation is probably right, a lot of middle weight adventure bikes will appear over the next few years. It's a market with big potential.

[AllanB]

http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2016-honda-africa-twin-first-ride-motorcycle-review?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=7/16/2016&utm_term=Common%20Tread

[vegeman]

owner of a newly developed KTM given their infamous history of 1st production run lemons...08 530, 08 690, 07 990, 2013 1190, 2012 250 freeride.... )

how dare you say my beloved 08 690 is a lemon, Ill roost some juice in your face :eek5: Ironically it's been the most reliable bike I've had. 60K on it an still hauls....but getting back on topic. Went riding with mate on AT yesterday and did some 250k's on mainly tarmac and gravel (wellington to white rock). Was good to have another comparison ride, with a competent jockey riding the big AT. They are a nice package, and it went surprisingly well on the dirt/gravel. Certainly better than the F800,

We did a top gear roll on drag and the AT would pull ahead but honestly...the single piston on the 690 (which is still 650) was not embarrassed , ie after hitting 178k...the AT wasn't that far away. I think the AT being a 1000cc should be embarrassed Yet, on the dirt road...I think it also went better than it should - I could see it's pedigree and its value. The big torquey motor allows really good control out of the corners so it can force the bike where you need it.

I'm also interesting in the ktm800 unicorn, and am happy to go first on it.

[R650R]

You can set up a new 690 for a bit less than the cost of the cheapest AT and you will get ABS, slipper clutch, couple of map adjustments, better suspended and some "character".... plus a more off road focused advbike.



I'm leaning more towards something road focused that can handle mild off road stuff and with good power for dealing to cars/traffic on our big hills. After finding out about the KTMs fuel tank use as rear subframe I'm wondering about long term durability for carring a lot of gear on the back.
And to be honest 95% of the places we go around here you don't even need anything close to the KTM's ability... but damn they look trick...
Just when I've nearly made up my mind I'm waiting for work contract to sort itself out to make sure ive got gas money now damnit..... And the cage need a few things done too....

[R650R]

Was good to have another comparison ride, with a competent jockey riding the big AT. They are a nice package, and it went surprisingly well on the dirt/gravel. Certainly better than the F800,

We did a top gear roll on drag and the AT would pull ahead but honestly...the single piston on the 690 (which is still 650) was not embarrassed , ie after hitting 178k...the AT wasn't that far away. I think the AT being a 1000cc should be embarrassed Yet, on the dirt road...I think it also went better than it should - I could see it's pedigree and its value. The big torquey motor allows really good control out of the corners so it can force the bike where you need it.



I think that's the whole attraction of the AT package, a little bit less so its actually controllable and useable for 90% of people in real world. Looking at those ariel reinmann vids, how many people could hustle and 1190 like that off road, and also where could you use its potential without getting yourself into legal or lethal consequences.

[Night Falcon]

I'm leaning more towards something road focused that can handle mild off road stuff and with good power for dealing to cars/traffic on our big hills. After finding out about the KTMs fuel tank use as rear subframe I'm wondering about long term durability for carring a lot of gear on the back.
And to be honest 95% of the places we go around here you don't even need anything close to the KTM's ability... but damn they look trick...
Just when I've nearly made up my mind I'm waiting for work contract to sort itself out to make sure ive got gas money now damnit..... And the cage need a few things done too....

yup, that's why there's an XC in my garage....time to slow down and take things a little easier before I really break something :pinch:

[R650R]

yup, that's why there's an XC in my garage....time to slow down and take things a little easier before I really break something :pinch:

I'd have thought that would be the opposite thing. that lil beast felt like a nimble mountain bike with an engine attached, would lead to an inclination to ne jumping off stuff lol... The AT's lardiness will be a good excuse to chicken out of dangerous stuff and feral activities like rivier crossings when there a civilised bridge available :)

[george formby]

yamaha is supposed to be bringing out an adventure bike based on MT-07 in 2017 / back to the Tenere style

Yup, XT 700Z. I'm expecting an XT 660 with a perky 700cc twin motivating it. Can't wait!

IIRC a thread showing prototype pics has already been started.

[R650R]

On the production line....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYqMCRbGcF0

[R650R]

Some cool action shots in here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz1q336iDos

[pomgolian]

Don't get it these bikes are overweight road tourers that are hardly ever going to be ridden like in video by 99% of owners which is clearly sped up in places to make it look better.

There must be more money to be made by manufacturers to make these expensive monsters than genuine light weight bikes so the marketing machine keeps telling you how good they are off road.

[R650R]

Don't get it these bikes are overweight road tourers that are hardly ever going to be ridden like in video by 99% of owners which is clearly sped up in places to make it look better.

There must be more money to be made by manufacturers to make these expensive monsters than genuine light weight bikes so the marketing machine keeps telling you how good they are off road.

Prob 100% right. But that's what the punters and people like me want. Something that can eat up road miles comfortably, carry a lot of gear and handle some slightly challenging terrain on occasion. Effectively the SUV of the biking world.
I would love a lightweight 500-800cc adventure bike but looking at other bikes in that class how long will the engine life/service intervals be and payload of gear without majorly affecting the handling you bought it for in first place.
I'm willing to have a heavier bike if it has the poke to see of cages fully loaded on the bigger climbs on the taupo rd. Nothing worse than having some brake dancing SUV overtake the loaded DR up passing lanes only to dick around in front of you through the corners.
95% of "adventure' riding in NZ is predominantly on gravel roads as far as roaming from the Hb region is concerned.

Anyway im holding off til next genreration on one of these after seeing few issues crop up.... Maybe Marty will convince me to go KTM.... :)

[Tazz]

Don't get it these bikes are overweight road tourers that are hardly ever going to be ridden like in video by 99% of owners which is clearly sped up in places to make it look better.

There must be more money to be made by manufacturers to make these expensive monsters than genuine light weight bikes so the marketing machine keeps telling you how good they are off road.

Why worry about what anyone else chooses to ride?

[pomgolian]

Prob 100% right. But that's what the punters and people like me want. Something that can eat up road miles comfortably, carry a lot of gear and handle some slightly challenging terrain on occasion. Effectively the SUV of the biking world.
I would love a lightweight 500-800cc adventure bike but looking at other bikes in that class how long will the engine life/service intervals be and payload of gear without majorly affecting the handling you bought it for in first place.
I'm willing to have a heavier bike if it has the poke to see of cages fully loaded on the bigger climbs on the taupo rd. Nothing worse than having some brake dancing SUV overtake the loaded DR up passing lanes only to dick around in front of you through the corners.
95% of "adventure' riding in NZ is predominantly on gravel roads as far as roaming from the Hb region is concerned.

Anyway im holding off til next genreration on one of these after seeing few issues crop up.... Maybe Marty will convince me to go KTM.... :)

Yeah your dead right on all the above if that's what you use it for but doing jumps with panniers and top box :lol:

Marty will probably agree on your reasons after buying the Triumph

[AllanB]

Ah - on these bikes is it don't worry about getting your knee down - get your pannier down on a corner.

[pomgolian]

Why worry about what anyone else chooses to ride?

Hi Tazz I'm not worried about what other people ride and not against big bikes hell I owned a few GSs and toured most of the U.K, Ireland and parts of Europe it was more directed at how the video was portraying it as a bike you could treat as a lightweight trail bike.

One day maybe they will make better midsize lightweight bikes with longer service intervals and longevity for the likes of myself a mere mortal :beer:

[AllanB]

Hi Tazz I'm not worried about what other people ride and not against big bikes hell I owned a few GSs and toured most of the U.K, Ireland and parts of Europe it was more directed at how the video was portraying it as a bike you could treat as a lightweight trail bike.

One day maybe they will make better midsize lightweight bikes with longer service intervals and longevity for the likes of myself a mere mortal :beer:

With the new fad for 800 -900cc engines it may be possible that lighter, just as capable on road but more comfortable off road bikes start appearing.

Having said that how are the sales of the Triumph 800's going ? Is this not the on/off road bike you speak of?

[R650R]

Yeah your dead right on all the above if that's what you use it for but doing jumps with panniers and top box :lol:

Marty will probably agree on your reasons after buying the Triumph

Holy Catfish Batman!!! I better get out to Hav' Nth with some bourbon and classy strippers (the kind the Cheifs are too cheap for) and avert a biketastrophe.
I once too lusted for the XC800 but then I sought professional help...
On a sidenote I've been winter cleaning and re read some 2006 circa edition Fastbikes mag and pretty much the same said about the the then new KTM 990....

[george formby]

With the new fad for 800 -900cc engines it may be possible that lighter, just as capable on road but more comfortable off road bikes start appearing.

Having said that how are the sales of the Triumph 800's going ? Is this not the on/off road bike you speak of?

KTM and Yamaha are due to reveal middle weight twins. The Yamaha is the 700cc motor, not sure about the KTM. Might be 800cc, a Duke and Adventure bike are apparently being tested. Let the good times roll.

[Gremlin]

Ah - on these bikes is it don't worry about getting your knee down - get your pannier down on a corner.
With the OEM suspension I always had the side and centre stands touching down while the panniers kept their distance from the road. On Ohlins suspension the stands mostly stay off the deck (plus I've ground them away a bit) and slightly off the edge of the tyres the panniers still have a margin...

[Night Falcon]

Holy Catfish Batman!!! I better get out to Hav' Nth with some bourbon and classy strippers (the kind the Cheifs are too cheap for) and avert a biketastrophe.
I once too lusted for the XC800 but then I sought professional help...
On a sidenote I've been winter cleaning and re read some 2006 circa edition Fastbikes mag and pretty much the same said about the the then new KTM 990....

Get some more professional advice before dismissing the XC. It's a very capable bike, for its size. It will take me to most of the places I got the 690 into (and out of) without too much extra effort I reckon. Plus it's way more easy on my aging broken down chassis on longer rides and has no worries keeping ahead of SUVs on uphil passing lanes.

[Tazz]

Hi Tazz I'm not worried about what other people ride and not against big bikes hell I owned a few GSs and toured most of the U.K, Ireland and parts of Europe it was more directed at how the video was portraying it as a bike you could treat as a lightweight trail bike.

One day maybe they will make better midsize lightweight bikes with longer service intervals and longevity for the likes of myself a mere mortal :beer:

Way of the world. SUV's that in reality barely manage to ford a creek without losing the front bumper are marketed as offroad beasts too :laugh:

[Black Knight]

I spent a bit of coffee time with Lyndon Proskitt (Races to Places) when he was in Russell-his main comment was,dont need more than 650cc,should be a single and definitely not fuel injected.That from a guy who knows.

[Night Falcon]

I spent a bit of coffee time with Lyndon Proskitt (Races to Places) when he was in Russell-his main comment was,dont need more than 650cc,should be a single and definitely not fuel injected.That from a guy who knows.

Well that's that I spose, was beginning to really enjoy the FI'd ABS'd XC but she'll have to go now we've been told from the guy who knows that its OTT.....anyone got a cheap KLR for sale:brick:

[Gremlin]

.....anyone got a cheap KLR for sale:brick:
Are there expensive ones? :scratch:

[Night Falcon]

Are there expensive ones? :scratch:

Yupperoonie there isss......unless ya feel $10k for 20+ year old bike with dodgy doohickey's izzz cheap, mind you....it does have a carb and is under 650cc, all good qualities according to TGWK's, 40hp's a tad unexciting but the crap suspension makes up for it spose :shifty:

[george formby]

Well that's that I spose, was beginning to really enjoy the FI'd ABS'd XC but she'll have to go now we've been told from the guy who knows that its OTT.....anyone got a cheap KLR for sale:brick:

LOL. I think Mr Poskitt has a different perspective on his needs and potential problems. Keep your bike, it's just fine, but avoid Mongolia.

[pomgolian]

LOL. I think Mr Poskitt has a different perspective on his needs and potential problems. Keep your bike, it's just fine, but avoid Mongolia.


I wish there was a "like" button like on the other channel :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[R650R]

I spent a bit of coffee time with Lyndon Proskitt (Races to Places) when he was in Russell-his main comment was,dont need more than 650cc,should be a single and definitely not fuel injected.That from a guy who knows.

The only downside I could see from having an injected bike is if due to poor maintainance (or rare unrelated failure) you cans till always bump start a carby bike but an injected bike NEEDS its fuel pump and juice to turn it over. Having said that I've still managed to bump start the GSXR with a VERY dead (8V) battery and a suitable stretch of downhill :)
But if your living in any half decent country like NZ your never too far away from help for it to be fully life threatebning....

[AllanB]

Injected all day long. Sounds like some old fart story where carbs ruled the world. Until they get some altitude and run lean ... injectors adjusted by the computer :-)

[flashg]

The only downside I could see from having an injected bike is if due to poor maintainance (or rare unrelated failure) you cans till always bump start a carby bike but an injected bike NEEDS its fuel pump and juice to turn it over. Having said that I've still managed to bump start the GSXR with a VERY dead (8V) battery and a suitable stretch of downhill :)
But if your living in any half decent country like NZ your never too far away from help for it to be fully life threatebning....
My understanding is an injected bike produces more power to run its injection system etc. Example - my injected WR 450 doesn't need a battery or a starter, it has a kick start or you could easily bump start it. It kick starts easier than any carbed bike I've ever owned or ridden. And you can't flood it. It produces enough power to run heated grips and all sorts of accessories.
I don't agree with your reasoning. Thing's usually improve with development. Injection is very reliable these days.
Having owned both (carbed, injected) from sports, adventure, enduro, I far prefer injection.
A foot note, As carb's wear they give all sorts of problems ( we all know) I've never had any problems with injection, hit the button, it starts and runs perfectly, even at altitude ( carbs don't)
Wish adventure bikes had a kick start of some sort. Be hard kicking over a bigger engine though.
My 2 cents worth [emoji2]

[Night Falcon]

crash started my 690 couple of times with no problems. FI is pretty reliable these days. early stuff had problems. Bad fuel seems to be the predominant cause of problems but that's not really an issue in NZ. Carbs are great if your a carb wizard and have a jet kit and the patience to tune them....FI takes care of all that.

[Racing Dave]

Injected all day long. Sounds like some old fart story where carbs ruled the world. Until they get some altitude and run lean ... injectors adjusted by the computer :-)

No, they run rich at high altitude. Compared to low altitude, there's the same volume of air passing through the venturi, so it draws the same volume of fuel through the main jet, but there fewer air molecules in that volume of air.

[Bass]

Have travelled quite a bit around the middle of Australia. It's not difficult to find yourself in places where you are wondering if there's another solitary person within two or three hundred kilometers. The fuel available can be a bit suss out that way too.

If it stops in places like that, I've got a better than 50/50 chance of getting a carby to work again.

Probably got no chance of fixing an injection system. Yes they are pretty reliable. No, the fuel is usually not that bad. It's just that the consequences can be pretty dire and so I go with the greatest likelihood of getting mobile again.

[flashg]

No, they run rich at high altitude. Compared to low altitude, there's the same volume of air passing through the venturi, so it draws the same volume of fuel through the main jet, but there fewer air molecules in that volume of air.
So what is the oxygen sensor in the exhaust for ?
The mechanics at work and My understanding was its there to send data to the computer to analyze the exaust gases and adjust the mixture accordingly.
If my injected bikes run rich at altitude, why can't I feel it ?
With carbed bikes I've owned in the past you could tell.

[Waipukbiker]

crash started my 690 couple of times with no problems. FI is pretty reliable these days. early stuff had problems. Bad fuel seems to be the predominant cause of problems but that's not really an issue in NZ. Carbs are great if your a carb wizard and have a jet kit and the patience to tune them....FI takes care of all that.

Your right, crash starting your beast wasnt an issue for the rider, as for the poor buggers pushing it, well, bugger and buggerette anyway. And it was after a couple :apint:
jeez, that was a couple or 3 years ago now.

[flashg]

Apologies Racing Dave
I didn't read your post properly.

[Racing Dave]

Apologies Racing Dave
I didn't read your post properly.

That's OK, no harm done.

My first experience of the 'running rich at altitude' sensation was about 30 years ago, when the Rainbow Road wasn't the popular highway that it is now, and my XR185 started blubbering at the top of Island Saddle on the way north. In those days, it could literally be a week before help arrived and the walk out in bike gear was not one to look forward to (I thought that I might start blubbering, too), but on descending the saddle the engine returned to its usual smooth purr. Until I returned to Hanmer, when it happened again, and of course cleared up again by Lake Tennyson.

[Night Falcon]

Your right, crash starting your beast wasnt an issue for the rider, as for the poor buggers pushing it, well, bugger and buggerette anyway. And it was after a couple :apint:
jeez, that was a couple or 3 years ago now.

LOL. Was gonna mention it was preferable to have a steep hill to launch it Ross. You blokes were awesome that fateful day in the Paronagawho car park. What ya upto these days mate, we need to get the crew together for a ride or two this spring/summer.....especially now I have a comfy British adv-Tourer (with FI) to ride. :banana::banana::banana:

[R650R]

Well I was needing a rest 3/4 up Takipari rd today to remove some layers and inspect the next steep section when a heavenly sound starts thundering up the trail....
Whats that I wonder, sounds great and definitely a bigger bike of some sort. The track was in bad state and I was blown away to see an AT thumping up the hill.
Yoshi end can on it, had good chat to owner and he got it unaided through some pretty mean snowy and ice bits on the steep loose stuff. I was even hesitant to follow on the DR!
Post some pics later

[R650R]

Seems Honda dealers have special on at moment, $2k of recommended retail on this "hard to obtain, limited supplies" bike....
Dam that I trying to buy house at moment

[AllanB]

Seems Honda dealers have special on at moment, $2k of recommended retail on this "hard to obtain, limited supplies" bike....
Dam that I trying to buy house at moment

Well - that's the best time to buy a new bike - just add it to the loan. You are a long time dead.

[Takataka]

Well - that's the best time to buy a new bike - just add it to the loan. You are a long time dead.
I would only agree with that if you were sure the bike was actually going to enrich your life more than your current ride. Would the AT really go up steep hills that much better?
Having a smaller mortgage can actually mean more free time to ride, which to me is more important than a new bike. I'm probably sounding a bit too serious and sensible here but what worked for us was paying our mortgage down hard in the beginning and we're now reaping the rewards. Every big expense was preceded by the question "will this truly enrich my life" ?

[young1]

I would only agree with that if you were sure the bike was actually going to enrich your life more than your current ride. Would the AT really go up steep hills that much better?
Having a smaller mortgage can actually mean more free time to ride, which to me is more important than a new bike. I'm probably sounding a bit too serious and sensible here but what worked for me was paying my mortgage down hard in the beginning and I'm now reaping the rewards. Every big expense was preceded buy the question "will this truly enrich my life" ?

Good thinking!

[R650R]

I would only agree with that if you were sure the bike was actually going to enrich your life more than your current ride. Would the AT really go up steep hills that much better?
Having a smaller mortgage can actually mean more free time to ride, which to me is more important than a new bike. I'm probably sounding a bit too serious and sensible here but what worked for us was paying our mortgage down hard in the beginning and we're now reaping the rewards. Every big expense was preceded by the question "will this truly enrich my life" ?

When the mortage payments are about the same as renting, how long it takes to pay it off id immaterial to me, just be nice to have my own place.
Yes an Africa Twin will enrich my life.... however I'm starting to get dismayed watching youtuvbe vids of the thousands of screws and shit to undo to accesss the airfilter or taking the tank and fairings off. Hopefully Safari or rallyraid bring out aftermarket body kits soon..... otherwise it might be the KTM790 ADV X or the Yamaha YDV830R or even the Suzuzki RM670V.....

[mcshaz]

Seems Honda dealers have special on at moment, $2k of recommended retail on this "hard to obtain, limited supplies" bike....


Where? The Honda website has lots about specials on the cbr450, but I cna't see anything on the AT - is it dealer initiated?

[R650R]

Where? The Honda website has lots about specials on the cbr450, but I cna't see anything on the AT - is it dealer initiated?

probably... http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-1020965587.htm

[R650R]

Right....now to find a donor bike....

http://www.africanqueens.de/EN/PRODUCTS/shop-parts.html

http://shop-africanqueens.de/epages/66f73c15-7f6a-4ff7-ae3f-c15fe6812bc9.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/66f73c15-7f6a-4ff7-ae3f-c15fe6812bc9/Products/UV1000RR

[Night Falcon]

Right....now to find a donor bike....

http://www.africanqueens.de/EN/PRODUCTS/shop-parts.html

http://shop-africanqueens.de/epages/66f73c15-7f6a-4ff7-ae3f-c15fe6812bc9.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/66f73c15-7f6a-4ff7-ae3f-c15fe6812bc9/Products/UV1000RR

cant help but think.....lipstick on a porker.....but hey, some dudes like their lasses hefty :dodge:

[R650R]

cant help but think.....lipstick on a porker.....but hey, some dudes like their lasses hefty :dodge:

Hey! quiet in the triumph corner with your third cylinders.... ;P

This ones sexy too lol :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqr2o0RIbkI