Log in

View Full Version : More detail on the new Africa Twin



Pages : [1] 2

Racing Dave
13th May 2015, 20:32
MCN has the scoop...

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2015/may/new-honda-africa-twin-revealed/

R650R
14th May 2015, 09:23
Power output will 118 at rear wheel and 98Nm torque and because its a Honda the dry weight will be 398kg which is just right for an adventure bike ;p

george formby
14th May 2015, 09:30
Power output will 118 at rear wheel and 98Nm torque and because its a Honda the dry weight will be 398kg which is just right for an adventure bike ;p

Yup. Prolly has a tad to much gravity for mere mortals. Clutch sounds very intriguing.

400sm
20th May 2015, 20:04
From the red and blue gearbox internals and the 2 clutches, are we to infer it's got a DSG gearbox?

Racing Dave
21st May 2015, 07:21
The answer is yes and no. My understanding is that the bike will be produced in two versions (ie one with the funny gearbox and one conventional), although it's a bit too soon to know what one(s) will be sold in NZ.

I'd like to try both...

DR Girl
21st May 2015, 09:08
MCN has the scoop...

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2015/may/new-honda-africa-twin-revealed/

See latest page of Hawke's Bay Ride Out Thread to see the rebirth pics of a 1990 African Twin by our local rider Ross. She looks hot even in her 'naked form' :niceone:

JimmyC
21st May 2015, 09:08
Honda DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) - http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-picturebook/DCT/

Apparently the new version of DCT on the Africa Twin has been especially developed for off road use. I don't know what that entails yet precisely but it has me intrigued. Sometimes it's extremely handy to be able to stall a bike intentionally for eg, and I'd like to know how one will achieve the same end result (ie: not rolling back down a hill) with DCT, which technically speaking you can't stall. Some sort of hill start control like the 1290 SA?

Edit: How do you stall a bike with a Rekluse incidentally?

400sm
21st May 2015, 15:18
See latest page of Hawke's Bay Ride Out Thread to see the rebirth pics of a 1990 African Twin by our local rider Ross. She looks hot even in her 'naked form' :niceone:


Hey you little thread hijacker, I'd rather you post a picture of the cute thang YOU sit on.

whatastoner
14th June 2015, 12:22
Can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Release date rumoured to be early 2016.
Regular clutch version for me please.

JimmyC
23rd July 2015, 12:22
And here it is -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCizHWu0gao

Night Falcon
23rd July 2015, 13:08
looks exciting, would love to test ride one to compare with my old 990...FI would have to be better than KTM's stink attempt. Don't know about this auto clutch thingy....is it like the modern take on the old step through centrifical jobbies or what?

JimmyC
23rd July 2015, 13:31
No idea but I'm keen to try it at least... I noticed only one bike was doing the wheelies, and it wasn't the DCT.

Night Falcon
23rd July 2015, 13:59
couldn't help notice how hard the front suspension was being worked over the bumps...I'm picken 230+kgs fuelled up?

JimmyC
23rd July 2015, 14:49
Those in the know are saying 200-208kg's wet for the base manual, maybe another 10-12kg for the DCT version with all the fruit... make of that what you will but weight has always been touted as one of the new AT's defining features. I agree though, it looks very softly sprung. We didn't get to see the landings from those jumps either.

george formby
23rd July 2015, 17:22
I agree though, it looks very softly sprung. We didn't get to see the landings from those jumps either.

Yup, my first thought as the bike got big air was "cutaway coming...". Seeing it in the flesh has piqued my interest, does not look like a continent crushing behemoth. I would wager they were Japanese test riders, too.

JimmyC
23rd July 2015, 21:59
I would wager they were Japanese test riders, too.

Yep, they did look a little wee didn't they :msn-wink:

husaberg
24th July 2015, 00:59
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/142262-Hawke-s-Bay-Ride-Outs-is-anyone-there?p=1130865091#post113086509

JimmyC
24th July 2015, 07:27
Maybe not quite as light as predicted\hoped - http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/2016-honda-africa-twin-specs-leaked-video.html

Gremlin
24th July 2015, 16:50
couldn't help notice how hard the front suspension was being worked over the bumps...I'm picken 230+kgs fuelled up?
Your guessing isn't too shabby :D

About 230kg fully fueled depending on spec (std and ABS about that) and DCT adds 10kg ish.

To put it into perspective, the R1200GS (wet head) is 238kg. KTM 1190R is 234kg.

pete-blen
25th July 2015, 17:02
DCT... 1/4 tonne ADV bike.... :rolleyes:
At least they didn't put a dam parriot beak
on the front of it...

young1
25th July 2015, 19:30
Looks very nice, looking forward to seeing one in the flesh

JimmyC
27th July 2015, 07:01
From official Honda blurb on the new DCT, featuring incline detection, whatever that might be -

Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) for adventure
Honda’s unique Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) will be available as an option on the CRF1000L Africa Twin, with the use of a common crankcase keeping the width the same as the manual transmission version.

It features the standard manual mode – allowing the rider to operate gear shifts through triggers on the left handlebar – and two automatic modes. D mode offers the best balance of fuel economy and comfort cruising. S mode has now been revised to give extra levels of sports performance, with three different shift patterns to choose from: S1, S2 and S3.

Of course, DCT for the CRF1000L Africa Twin is also fully equipped to operate in an adventure environment, with off-road functionality enhanced by the G switch positioned on the right side of the instrument panel. Pushing the G switch in any riding mode improves traction and machine control – all-important for off-road riding – by reducing the amount of clutch slip during gear changes.

Further new functionality for the DCT system comes in the form of incline detection, by means of which the gear shift pattern is adapted depending on the grade of any incline to provide optimum control.

Night Falcon
27th July 2015, 09:20
Honda have obviously learnt a lot from watching Charlie n Ewan wrestling their beamers round the globe. The customer can now buy clutch control skills with the bike to compensate for any lack of them. Anyway you cut it, for most folks, manhandling a quarter ton bike on steep loose surfaces needs all the help you can get. wonder if Recluse will make something for the non DCT version :devil2:

JimmyC
27th July 2015, 09:46
I'm still wondering about strategic stalling of bikes on steep hills where\when required. How does one do that with a Rekluse or DCT? The DCT comes with a parking brake, does one need to engage that in such circumstances?

Tazz
27th July 2015, 11:12
I'm still wondering about strategic stalling of bikes on steep hills where\when required. How does one do that with a Rekluse or DCT? The DCT comes with a parking brake, does one need to engage that in such circumstances?

You can stall a rekluse, usually just before you crest a steep ascent :sweatdrop

Hitting your kill switch is as easy/easier than a deliberate stall anyway though....

Padmei
28th July 2015, 17:00
OK now dumb it down for the thickies. So it is like my odyssey which is either full time auto or tap the lever to the right & select gears I want? So It doesn't come with a normal clutch?

I kinda thought it looked kinda OK - at least looking a bit more off roadish than most new adv bikes.

Night Falcon
28th July 2015, 18:03
OK now dumb it down for the thickies. So it is like my odyssey which is either full time auto or tap the lever to the right & select gears I want? So It doesn't come with a normal clutch?

I kinda thought it looked kinda OK - at least looking a bit more off roadish than most new adv bikes.

I'll put ya crook....it has a computer called Hal inside the clutch basket who takes care of gear changes for you, before you even realise you need them taken care of :shifty:

Underground
28th July 2015, 18:34
We don't even need to know how it works, it costs more, it weighs a lot more. Just look at the specs on the base model and throw that big heavy can in the trash, spend the money on an after market can and a chip.

JimmyC
28th July 2015, 21:52
OK now dumb it down for the thickies. So it is like my odyssey which is either full time auto or tap the lever to the right & select gears I want? So It doesn't come with a normal clutch?

I kinda thought it looked kinda OK - at least looking a bit more off roadish than most new adv bikes.

DCT has 3 options, auto for maximum fuel efficiency, sport auto which holds each gear longer, and manual which utilises the + and - buttons on back and front of the left grip. It apparently also has a 'G' button (no G spot jokes please) which puts it into some sort of off road special mode, including incline detection... Your guess is as good as mine on that one.

It has no clutch, but I understand a gear lever for the left foot is optional, you can use it in the same fashion as the + and - buttons if you so desire.

Tazz
28th July 2015, 23:57
DCT has 3 options, auto for maximum fuel efficiency, sport auto which holds each gear longer, and manual which utilises the + and - buttons on back and front of the left grip. It apparently also has a 'G' button (no G spot jokes please) which puts it into some sort of off road special mode, including incline detection... Your guess is as good as mine on that one.

It has no clutch, but I understand a gear lever for the left foot is optional, you can use it in the same fashion as the + and - buttons if you so desire.

My guess would be the incline gizmo is traction related. Slip ere n thur. Kinda like the diff lock of the bike world in a way?

Padmei
29th July 2015, 07:42
DCT has 3 options, auto for maximum fuel efficiency, sport auto which holds each gear longer, and manual which utilises the + and - buttons on back and front of the left grip. It apparently also has a 'G' button (no G spot jokes please) which puts it into some sort of off road special mode, including incline detection... Your guess is as good as mine on that one.

It has no clutch, but I understand a gear lever for the left foot is optional, you can use it in the same fashion as the + and - buttons if you so desire.

Ok thanks for that. It's really a Burgman with knobs then:laugh:

Night Falcon
29th July 2015, 09:49
My guess would be the incline gizmo is traction related. Slip ere n thur. Kinda like the diff lock of the bike world in a way?

it sounds like they've just copied the CVT setup from my 4wd Outlander - wonder if it has the cup holders as well?:drinknsin

Underground
29th July 2015, 12:13
We probably shouldn't be dissing Honda too much for offering this auto version, even though it weighs heaps more and costs god knows what extra.
They have cleverly created an adventure bike that absolutely anyone can ride so they will sell shitloads of them.
But most importantly it gives those with a disability an 'off the shelf' option. ....so if you have a gammy leg/arm/wrist etc, here you go!

Woodman
29th July 2015, 12:25
To be honest, it leaves me cold. Just another overweight gravel bike.

Night Falcon
29th July 2015, 13:15
....so if you have a gammy leg/arm/wrist etc, here you go!

hummm putting it like that, maybe.......meh, nah, still needs to be 50+ kg lighter to suit my brokenness. Even at 210kg I found the 990 was more bike than I could handle on loose ground

husaberg
29th July 2015, 15:31
To be honest, it leaves me cold. Just another overweight gravel bike.

Cold? At the weight it should include heated seats, grips and a pie warmer.
mmmm,Scratch that I think the Honda ate all the pies anyway.

Padmei
29th July 2015, 19:03
Yeah I don't really mind it, in fact I thought it looked quite off roady. With the automatic electronics etc it just makes me morer paranoid that the world is passing me by & I can't keep up.

Looking at the young fellas on the design team they must cringe at the thought of having to design something that doesn't have a app attached to it.

george formby
29th July 2015, 23:00
hummm putting it like that, maybe.......meh, nah, still needs to be 50+ kg lighter to suit my brokenness. Even at 210kg I found the 990 was more bike than I could handle on loose ground

Concur. If a bike is 200kg + it needs 100hp to look respectable, but WTF is a mere mortal going to do with it? Blasting through wide open spaces in a video is one thing. A day on slippery terrain with a chance to break your $20g toy, and yourself, on every corner, yeah, nah. Stick to my overweight and underpowered land crab thanks.

The real reason I grizzle is poverty. I would try to break one if I could afford it.

Tazz
29th July 2015, 23:52
I have a question: why are people looking to big thou + bikes..... if they want a light weight one...?

It's like being attracted to fat chicks, but wanting a vegan gf.

george formby
30th July 2015, 00:06
I have a question: why are people looking to big thou + bikes..... if they want a light weight one...?

It's like being attracted to fat chicks, but wanting a vegan gf.

Same reason folk like V8's over 4's. Their is more. It's not better or faster, just more.

I know a fat vegan. Not attractive today. Could have been a pin up in India no doubt.

Night Falcon
30th July 2015, 08:46
Same reason folk like V8's over 4's. Their is more. It's not better or faster, just more.

I know a fat vegan. Not attractive today. Could have been a pin up in India no doubt.

An AT should be more like a straight 6 Mk1 Zephyr- not too flashy or overpowered, reliable with just a hint indestructability but minus the hockey stick exhaust. Wasn't Mr Spock a vegan?

JimmyC
30th July 2015, 10:20
I have a question: why are people looking to big thou + bikes..... if they want a light weight one...?



I don't think many people know exactly what they want 'cos it's always a compromise. The perfect bike would meet the dream of crossing countries or continents during the week in such comfort as if riding a Lazy-Boy, then flick the Red Bull switch, don wings and become Chris Birch on the weekends.

For me, I'd rather be comfortable and safer on the open the road whilst mixing with traffic and weather conditions, and subsequently curb most of those Chris Birch aspirations. The alternative is trailering a WR everywhere, and that doesn't appeal.

Tazz
30th July 2015, 11:20
Same reason folk like V8's over 4's. Their is more. It's not better or faster, just more.

I know a fat vegan. Not attractive today. Could have been a pin up in India no doubt.

I don't think the crowd that go buy the latest Camaro do so with the idea it should handle like, and have a comparable weight to a Fiat Panda :laugh:

As for your fat buddy, a literal white whale? :bleh:


I don't think many people know exactly what they want 'cos it's always a compromise.

That's my point with that question though. Greater CC = greater weight. There are (available new) 800's (and less) that are sub 200kg I believe.
The old AT's that get a good rep compared to the new big bikes (for some reason the big bikes...?) are 650 and 750 cc...


For me, I'd rather be comfortable and safer on the open the road whilst mixing with traffic and weather conditions, and subsequently curb most of those Chris Birch aspirations. The alternative is trailering a WR everywhere, and that doesn't appeal.

And most are happy to do this looking at how well the 'whales' sell, and you will clock up a heap of trouble free miles and enjoy the shit out of it even though you'll never be able to take it on a trail ride and pop a couple of back flips while 2 up with the missus.

And when they are taken where they 'shouldn't' be, people still have a shitload of fun, which is what life and riding is about, but just like if you take your mums Rav 4 to a winch comp, you can expect a bit more effort and damage than something built for that specific task.

You can put WR's on the road ;)

Also, just note with Birchy, big tyre troubles on those bikes, even offroad, at speed. Riding god by comparison to the rest of us aside, he's not riding 3000k on the slab, doing some single track in the wet then riding home because the tyre that will handle that doesn't exist, yet.

JimmyC
6th August 2015, 10:48
Register for NZ updates - http://go.hondamotorbikes.co.nz/Africa-Twin-Registration.html

vegeman
7th August 2015, 09:02
hummm putting it like that, maybe.......meh, nah, still needs to be 50+ kg lighter to suit my brokenness. Even at 210kg I found the 990 was more bike than I could handle on loose ground

For NZ, we won't really get the value out of the tech/size/form factor. Watching the first photos and videos, I to cringe at the beast it is. Riding to Alaska, across Aussie, copying the long way round boys etc seems their target, and that is probably where the real market and dollars are anyway.

I've just been talking to another mate who rides with NZ riding legends, and they all think now that the 650 platform is the ideal bike/power/weight/reliability for NZ. I was hoping they released the 650R instead of this, but maybe once Honda is back in the game...they might consider that. All it needed was an electric starter, and a few basic creature comforts.

Racing Dave
7th August 2015, 12:34
[QUOTE=That's my point with that question though. Greater CC = greater weight. There are (available new) 800's (and less) that are sub 200kg I believe. .[/QUOTE]

Your believer might need recalibrating. An 800 weighing less than 200kg? Not on my scales...

Certainly all the single-cylinder bikes are less, but they are not 800s. Don't mention the (best-forgotten) DR800, either.

Night Falcon
7th August 2015, 15:17
For NZ, we won't really get the value out of the tech/size/form factor. Watching the first photos and videos, I to cringe at the beast it is. Riding to Alaska, across Aussie, copying the long way round boys etc seems their target, and that is probably where the real market and dollars are anyway.

I've just been talking to another mate who rides with NZ riding legends, and they all think now that the 650 platform is the ideal bike/power/weight/reliability for NZ. I was hoping they released the 650R instead of this, but maybe once Honda is back in the game...they might consider that. All it needed was an electric starter, and a few basic creature comforts.

spot on - and that's why I reckon the 690 is such a brilliant bike for NZ conditions, albeit with a few add-ons. The BRP would have been so easy to update, but I guess now any new bike has to be FI so that means a complete redesign. Ironically Yamaha did it to the 6fiddy 10aRay and IMO got it woefully wrong, effectively creating a big blue pig :dodge:

JimmyC
20th August 2015, 18:28
Australian pricing released - http://www.therideadvice.com/pricing-for-honda-crf1000l-africa-twin-announced-in-australia/

That puts the ABS model directly up against the 800GS price wise, and the DCT\ABS model smack in between the GS and GSA pricing. Pretty impressed I have to say. Now I just need to ride one!

Racing Dave
21st August 2015, 06:56
The subsequent link in the Australian pricing article (Which is the most adventurous?) is also interesting.

They criticise the Honda for being low on torque (which it is, compared to the KTM and BMW, but that's not really surprising, given the engine capacity difference) but its torque peak is at significantly lower rpm than its rivals.

A test ride should confirm which bike 'feels' the best in the conditions for which they are designed.

JimmyC
21st August 2015, 07:08
Yep, agreed. There are also now very big price gaps between the AT and those it's compared with there..

Racing Dave
21st August 2015, 07:22
If the base model in Oz is $15,500 then take off their GST and add on ours + the currency conversion factor, it should still come out at under $20,000 here. I hope...

It's not always possible to directly compare pricing across the Tasman (economies of scale, for one reason) but it shouldn't be too far out.

I'd like to see a 'Which is more adventurous?' comparison with the BMW and Triumph 800s, too.

R650R
21st August 2015, 08:44
Will be interesting to see how much weight can be reduced with aftermarket exhaust and other things, expect it has a cat etc....
Hopefully they will bring out a slightly smaller version if they have any sense....

Racing Dave
19th September 2015, 10:21
Here's a link to Aussie website MCNews.com, where there are a couple of videos of the new CRF1000L being ridden. The opinions of the riders? Empty fluff - you won't learn anything from these Honda-sponsored fellows.

http://www.mcnews.com.au/marc-marquez-crf1000l-africa-twin-video/

Scubbo
19th September 2015, 11:13
I look forward to buying a 4th hand one in 10-20 years time :shifty:

R650R
20th September 2015, 09:05
Hmmmm at 208kg for the base model I could be seriously tempted if the price is right. Have never owned a Honda yet....

R650R
3rd October 2015, 12:00
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-953046885.htm

The new Africa Twin is coming!!

Introductory pricing:

- CRF1000L base model. (Silver only No ABS/TC): $19,995 plus ORC.
- ABS/TC model (All colours): $21,995 plus ORC.
- Deluxe DCT transmission (All colours ABS &

AllanB
3rd October 2015, 15:42
Interesting read this thread. Surprised at their weight but you guys who ride them appear to be happy with it. Too used to street only rides at my end I guess.

Pricing looks keen. Will Honda bring out a smaller one? Who knows, they have been woefully slow at innovating models people want over the past years.

pete-blen
3rd October 2015, 20:00
I read on the internet today Honda are looking at bringing out a scrambler version of the Grom.




Or the ADV version.....

JimmyC
3rd October 2015, 20:49
Apparently, the first stock will be here before Christmas, if only just. I was told by one upper NI dealer that once that initial batch of AT's were gone, the second run would incur a $2,000 price increase across the range. DCT models will be special order only as they haven't sold well previously so dealers are iffy on investing in them... To me, the specific appeal of DCT in the AT is the off road ability which I can see as being of great benefit but I won't buy one if I can't try it. Up to Honda NZ...

Make of that what you will!

MarkH
4th October 2015, 14:36
I'd love to own an Africa Twin, be a nice bike to own & ride.
But so much money to spend and that is quite a lot more kilograms of weight than my DR650 has, much less off-road trails capable and more just a road bike that is fine with gravel roads. Well, I guess it can handle going off-road, just not so easy to throw around tight single track type terrain - possibly those more skilled than me can do much more with one.
Around 230kg kerb weight to me says it is much more 'Adventure Bike' than 'Dual Sports Bike' which is I presume what Honda intended when they designed it.

R650R
4th October 2015, 15:10
Apparently, the first stock will be here before Christmas, if only just. I was told by one upper NI dealer that once that initial batch of AT's were gone, the second run would incur a $2,000 price increase across the range. DCT models will be special order only as they haven't sold well previously so dealers are iffy on investing in them... To me, the specific appeal of DCT in the AT is the off road ability which I can see as being of great benefit but I won't buy one if I can't try it. Up to Honda NZ...

Make of that what you will!

Going by past Honda actions the next batch will prob be on sale 5-6k cheaper a year later lol.... Blades, CBR600's, crossrunners , VFR1200s were all dumped on the market recently.....
As good as it is its still a jap bike with a BMW pricetag... and the BMW has more carpark/driveway bragging rights for those that buy based on that which is prob many....

Digitdion
4th October 2015, 20:23
Going by past Honda actions the next batch will prob be on sale 5-6k cheaper a year later lol.... Blades, CBR600's, crossrunners , VFR1200s were all dumped on the market recently.....
As good as it is its still a jap bike with a BMW pricetag... and the BMW has more carpark/driveway bragging rights for those that buy based on that which is prob many....

Nothing wrong with bemmers mate. I did not buy mine to Bragg. I got mine because it's a ripper of a bike.
I do agree though Honda have made some big stuff ups lately. They have really tried to build up so much hype about the launch of this bike. If it does not match people's expectation based on this hype it will go the same way as some recent Hondas and sold off cheaply a year or so after launch.

Ender EnZed
4th October 2015, 20:53
I think the price is ok but the weight is a bit disappointing. It's too heavy for proper offroading, so it's just another big ADV tourer. Doesn't make any sense in NZ unless you carry a pillion all the time.

I would've liked to see it at least be a compelling option for an upright, comfy, punchy roadbike but the MT09 Tracer has it beat in every respect to that end.

AllanB
4th October 2015, 21:10
All the big bore AVT bikes are heavy mothers with stepladder seats. Why expect this to be different? Its not a 600

cynna
4th October 2015, 21:14
I think the price is ok but the weight is a bit disappointing. It's too heavy for proper offroading, so it's just another big ADV tourer. Doesn't make any sense in NZ unless you carry a pillion all the time.

I would've liked to see it at least be a compelling option for an upright, comfy, punchy roadbike but the MT09 Tracer has it beat in every respect to that end.

umm it is an adv tourer!!!!! another north islander that needs to do some roads down south maybe?

proper offroading? maybe get a 450exc or something

AllanB
4th October 2015, 21:48
Or this ....

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-956536854.htm

Ender EnZed
4th October 2015, 21:49
umm it is an adv tourer!!!!! another north islander that needs to do some roads down south maybe?

proper offroading? maybe get a 450exc or something

It's a continent crusher. There's just no need for that much weight unless you're carrying a lot of weight. And there's no need to carry that much weight in NZ.

I was hoping, perhaps unrealistically, for something like the 210kg wet, 115hp, $18k Tracer with the advantage that it wouldn't break if it got dropped.

R650R
5th October 2015, 06:44
Nothing wrong with bemmers mate. I did not buy mine to Bragg...

Yes I agree, I'd like one too... #NicoleArbour #GoTeam

Tazz
5th October 2015, 12:30
umm it is an adv tourer!!!!! another north islander that needs to do some roads down south maybe?

proper offroading? maybe get a 450exc or something

Ironically the marketing term 'adventure' for bikes started off and has always been for bigger bikes anyway :laugh:

Not for me, yet, but the people who buy them always seem more than happy, and from where I'm looking the new AT is not all that heavy. It is not even much more than those old 750's people drool over (yet were never an absolute roaring success when in production. Interesting that...)

cynna
5th October 2015, 14:22
It's a continent crusher. There's just no need for that much weight unless you're carrying a lot of weight. And there's no need to carry that much weight in NZ.

I was hoping, perhaps unrealistically, for something like the 210kg wet, 115hp, $18k Tracer with the advantage that it wouldn't break if it got dropped.

but there is a need for a hayabusa in nz????? oooooooooooook

how about we just settle for a the tracer engine in the tenere then

AllanB
5th October 2015, 14:43
Light weight, 999cc HP to burn. Get into it ya pussies.

Gremlin
5th October 2015, 14:54
It's a continent crusher. There's just no need for that much weight unless you're carrying a lot of weight. And there's no need to carry that much weight in NZ.
Some of us can't pack light. One trip, upon my return I weighed my luggage, and including the boxes themselves, 14, 16 and 18kg. As soon as you're putting in a laptop (in a backpack, with plenty of extra cables), some work gear, 2-4 bottles of water, 1L of oil, tools... starts racking up quickly...

Some of us also own one bike, so while a 450EXC would be great for gnarly off road, I wouldn't want to do a 1000km day ride. I wouldn't want to carry pillions on it... horses for courses. The AT could go off road (obviously it won't glide across the top of sand etc), but you could also carry a pillion on a Sunday cruise with mates etc.

If the AT sells well, you could see something more mid range like the Tenere 660. On the other hand, some are using the CB500X or NC750X. Low down torque makes them perfectly usable for gravel exploring etc.

Ender EnZed
5th October 2015, 15:25
but there is a need for a hayabusa in nz????? oooooooooooook

I meant there's no need to carry supplies for thousands of km. Unless you're riding in circles you just can't go all that far in NZ without reaching the sea.


how about we just settle for a the tracer engine in the tenere then

That'd be interesting.

Tazz
5th October 2015, 16:47
I meant there's no need to carry supplies for thousands of km. Unless you're riding in circles you just can't go all that far in NZ without reaching the sea.

Sure some people go overboard, but you don't need to be going 1000's of miles to need a bit of gear either. Think about what you'd want to take if you were heading to a back country hut/area for 4-5 days.

R650R
6th October 2015, 11:27
Some of us can't pack light. One trip, upon my return I weighed my luggage, and including the boxes themselves, 14, 16 and 18kg. As soon as you're putting in a laptop (in a backpack, with plenty of extra cables), some work gear, 2-4 bottles of water, 1L of oil, tools... starts racking up quickly...

Some of us also own one bike, so while a 450EXC would be great for gnarly off road, I wouldn't want to do a 1000km day ride. I wouldn't want to carry pillions on it... horses for courses. The AT could go off road (obviously it won't glide across the top of sand etc), but you could also carry a pillion on a Sunday cruise with mates etc.

If the AT sells well, you could see something more mid range like the Tenere 660. On the other hand, some are using the CB500X or NC750X. Low down torque makes them perfectly usable for gravel exploring etc.

Yep I agree. If we're all honest very little of adventure riding is actually adventure. Just about all of my fav dirt roads have seen my GSXR750 go over them too. Even the DR has its balance compromised once a little bit of gear is loaded.
For me its about something that has good balance and ground clearance to cope with rough pot holed 4wd tracks and be able to park anywhere on rough terrain. Add into the mix some extra grunt for good highway cruising and I'm sold.

Kenb
30th November 2015, 13:55
http://theworldaccordingtoluckystriker.blogspot.co.za/2015/11/2015-honda-crf-1000l-africa-twin.html

looks like there may be less for the haters to hate

MarkH
1st December 2015, 13:29
http://theworldaccordingtoluckystriker.blogspot.co.za/2015/11/2015-honda-crf-1000l-africa-twin.html

looks like there may be less for the haters to hate

Fuck! Now I want one!
I should ask Santy Claws for a DCT one.

Racing Dave
8th December 2015, 01:09
Well, not a ride (more of a sit and a stand) and not in New Zealand, either.

I was at the Motorcycle Live exhibition in Birmingham last week, and Honda had a number of the new Africa Twins on display, in their various colour schemes and in their various specifications.

A great deal of interest was shown, as you might expect, but even in the UK there won't be any demo models available until March 2016. Keep holding your breath...

I couldn't tell a lot from looking, but I can report that the seat is low enough and narrow enough for me to get both feet (not flat, but touching) on the ground at the same time. Thus, lower than my R1200GSA. The bulid quality and fit of the panels is of a high standard.

Given that all the bikes at the show were supported by clamping the front wheel, it wasn't possible to turn the handlebars, but for me, when standing, I would definitely need the bars to be rolled forward in the clamps and possibly raised, too, but I have no idea if there'd still be clearance with the screen. The cables all look long enough.

I had a bounce on the suspension, and if you can take anything from that (not much!), when not actually riding, it didn't feel either under-damped or under sprung.

Awaiting patiently a more substantial test...

Racing Dave
10th December 2015, 02:51
Here's another review from the world launch in South Africa:

http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/first-ride-honda-africa-twin-crf1000l-review/30565-2.html

Judging from the included video, nothing too challenging in the off-road section.

JimmyC
11th December 2015, 06:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXIod3YLb4Y

The more I hear\see about it, the more I'm thinking I need to find an extra $2k for the DCT. Blue Wing Honda tells me they'll only be available in NZ via special order though... makes a test ride tricky.

Gremlin
11th December 2015, 07:54
Being more off road biased than Vstrom/GS etc, the lack of HP seems like a good thing to me at least...

I was up a Waikato gravel road on the weekend on the GSA with Mitas E07 tyres, and while I probably should have aired them down a little, it was a hard base with small gravel stones on top... wheel spin city in 2nd gear out of corners, just couldn't get much forward acceleration... and I wasn't WOT either. Add to that you can break traction in 4th and 5th gears (wasn't too game to try 6th) and yeah... less HP, less complications in more technical stuff...

JimmyC
11th December 2015, 19:00
They will be competing with the 2016 Ducati Hypermotard and Hyperstrada which are 939cc.

Completely different bikes!?

AllanB
11th December 2015, 19:06
The bulid quality and fit of the panels is of a high standard.


It's a Honda - goes without saying it will be high standard . ;)


Weird paint IMO. Kind of retro?

Racing Dave
11th December 2015, 22:09
It's a Honda - goes without saying it will be high standard . ;)


Weird paint IMO. Kind of retro?

Also seen on the Honda stand at Motorcycle Live, last week. You can't get any more retro than this.

JimmyC
13th December 2015, 12:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw2avMj0pFw

"You don't shit in your pants, it's just a good engine and a good motorcycle..."

AllanB
23rd December 2015, 06:13
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/first-ride-adv-review-2016-honda-crf1000l-africa-twin-motorcyclist-magazine?cmpid=enews122215&spPodID=030&spMailingID=24300140&spUserID=NjMxMTY5MzQzMjMS1&spJobID=702231696&spReportId=NzAyMjMxNjk2S0

JimmyC
23rd December 2015, 06:21
http://youtu.be/fuetRPaZXEs

Woodman
24th December 2015, 06:19
Hmmm, the more I read and watch about these the better they get. Seems like they are just the ducks nuts

Underground
24th December 2015, 07:47
Africa Twins have always been the ducks nuts Woodman

JimmyC
6th January 2016, 12:41
Hamilton Honda have a manual demo in stock... just trying to find a time to get over and ride it. Must be more coming to dealers around NZ though...

Muzz67
6th January 2016, 13:52
Africa Twins have always been the ducks nuts Woodman

You know you need it......

Underground
7th January 2016, 06:50
You know you need it......
Yeah, but I only seem to buy bikes that are over 20 years old..... I guess I'll still be able to ride in my eighties.

Tazz
7th January 2016, 09:21
Yeah, but I only seem to buy bikes that are over 20 years old..... I guess I'll still be able to ride in my eighties.

Loan it to me for a few weeks and I can make it look and feel like it's 20 years old for ya no sweat ;)

george formby
7th January 2016, 09:38
Gotta say that the more I see of the new Africa Twin, the more I like it. Love the look in HRC colours, shames the other bikes in the class and I think it's probably very handy indeed for a big bike off the beaten track. Soooooo tempting.

Underground
7th January 2016, 11:16
Gotta say that the more I see of the new Africa Twin, the more I like it. Love the look in HRC colours, shames the other bikes in the class and I think it's probably very handy indeed for a big bike off the beaten track. Soooooo tempting.
Same, can't wait to have a ride on one.

Shadowjack
7th January 2016, 11:26
And it has a 270 degree crankshaft phase. Just like another bike I owned - and stupidly parted with. No seller's remorse, here, at all, oh no, no, no...

george formby
7th January 2016, 11:42
And it has a 270 degree crankshaft phase. Just like another bike I owned - and stupidly parted with. No seller's remorse, here, at all, oh no, no, no...

Oh dear. Feel free to pop up and have a tour around on mine. Can't get moved for 270o parallel twins nowadays, but 5 valves...... :innocent:

Back on to the chocolate bar with a hazlenut in every bite. The AT looks relatively small, positively anorexic with some riders on it and no luggage.

tri boy
7th January 2016, 15:48
Called into Honda Hamilton and sat/started/fiddled with their one.
Grant was very happy to push the AT barrow, showing schematics of the various models fancy bits etc.

I was going to take it for a test ride tomorrow, but the weather looks sleazy, and since it's a demo, and won't/can't be sold for a while, then theres no rush.

Gotta say, it's a fine piece of kit, and they will sell well.

There next shipment isn't due for about 2-3mths, and hopefully they will get their hands on more than just the base model.

Me like.;)

Gremlin
7th January 2016, 21:46
The AT looks relatively small, positively anorexic with some riders on it and no luggage.
But my R1200GSA is pretty skinny too :innocent:

Botany Honda has a demo too, and ironically sent me an email about it (never bought a bike from them, just a lot of other stuff) but not my boss who has bought several bikes from them :D

tri boy
10th January 2016, 12:39
And as the CRF1000 hits the country, the speculated CRF450 Rally may be getting set for production:eek:

Honda might be claiming back it's ADV head honcho tag.

Scubbo
14th January 2016, 19:54
just saw one on a trailer heading down Murphys road, looked pretty well factory kitted with the crash bars ---- guess Botany honda got one to play with? :eek:

Gremlin
14th January 2016, 21:35
Just saw the demo today in Botany Honda. Base model version. Oil filter right on front bottom of engine, no bash plate, so suggest that's the first accessory :eek: The display has a curious touch, with something I haven't seen before. To change between panels on the display, there is the left bar buttons, which moves a small vertical stripe on the display and Set keeps you on that line. Then use Set to cycle between data on that row.

Small non adjustable screen by the looks, engine has a nice note with stock pipe and a bark at higher revs. Rider seat is two position adjustable, but with no modifications required, it's simply how you hook it into the 3 separate mounts (the underside of the seat has mounts with two steps). Looks like pillion seat is bolted down, at least, haven't yet figured out how it works. The grab rails are slightly higher than the seat, so you wouldn't remove the seat to put a roll bag across the back for example.

Noted 3-4 mounts on the sides for the stock luggage, 2 around the grab rails, one behind the rear pegs and another mount/lock under the tail. Stock luggage is plastic I think. I'd expect the likes of Touratech to have pannier frames instead, but there is actually a fair amount of plastic panels. It gives the bike a nice look, but I thought it might limit how you can bolt/strap stuff to the rear.

Tubed spoked rims, shod with Trailwings round out the package, 90-90-21 and something 18 (it was behind a frame). Probably what, 150-70-18? Tubed was a little disappointing, but clearly this AT is more on the KTM/dirt side vs Vstrom/road side.

Didn't get to ride it, I did need a loaner, but for some reason it wasn't forthcoming? <_< The joys of being a regular (insert nuisance if you like), I walk in, spy it just inside the door, swing a leg over. Hear a voice yell out: "Oi, get off!". I reply: "No!" and get laughter as a reply. :D

Waihou Thumper
14th January 2016, 22:13
It seems as there is one there and some have sat, ridden and photographed it...:)

Gremlin
14th January 2016, 22:18
It seems as there is one there and some have sat, ridden and photographed it...:)
Hopefully my bike will be ready tomorrow in time for me to collect. I can photograph it if you like, but no way I'm letting my ugly mug ruin the shot... and I'll keep the ugly salesman out of the shot too (aye Richard?) :lol:

I didn't really think to photograph it, got stuck into the details of it, the keys came out, got started etc.

Unfortunately, I was after something like this from Honda 5 years ago, and I'm now about $70k into the hole on my GSA, so I'm not switching...

eldog
15th January 2016, 06:26
Unfortunately, I was after something like this from Honda 5 years ago, and I'm now about $70k into the hole on my GSA, so I'm not switching...

Buy it then you will have both:2thumbsup

nzspokes
15th January 2016, 06:39
Wonder how many of these will ever actually go "offroad"?<_<

Waihou Thumper
15th January 2016, 07:37
Wonder how many of these will ever actually go "offroad"?<_<

How many sports bike's go to the track....Bit the same innit!
We buy them for the joy of looking and feeling like a rider who 'can' :)

nzspokes
15th January 2016, 07:41
How many sports bike's go to the track....Bit the same innit!
We buy them for the joy of looking and feeling like a rider who 'can' :)


Cough, SUV of motorcycles, cough......

Waihou Thumper
15th January 2016, 07:58
Cough, SUV of motorcycles, cough......


;)


318805

Tazz
15th January 2016, 08:40
Wonder how many of these will ever actually go "offroad"?<_<

They're not really an 'offroad' bike to be fair. They're tourers that are not adverse to having a bit of fun on gravel. You can't even really get knobblies that won't be destroyed by the weight of this style of bike in no time.

Gremlin
15th January 2016, 10:53
Wonder how many of these will ever actually go "offroad"?<_<
I've been off the rails for a while, does that count? Also, define off road. True bush bashing, no road around type stuff is quite rare.


They're not really an 'offroad' bike to be fair. They're tourers that are not adverse to having a bit of fun on gravel. You can't even really get knobblies that won't be destroyed by the weight of this style of bike in no time.
And that's why I'm annoyed when people take a GS and complain it needs 30+ more hp, or why does a tourer have 150hp etc. I've been up a rough gravel road, slightly crossed up, rear wheel spinning (felt like a god ;)) and 115hp ish was plenty... More HP only kills the tyre faster...

Tazz
15th January 2016, 13:00
I've been off the rails for a while, does that count? Also, define off road. True bush bashing, no road around type stuff is quite rare.


And that's why I'm annoyed when people take a GS and complain it needs 30+ more hp, or why does a tourer have 150hp etc. I've been up a rough gravel road, slightly crossed up, rear wheel spinning (felt like a god ;)) and 115hp ish was plenty... More HP only kills the tyre faster...

If there's a smile on your face then you've got the right tool for the job I reckon. Fark everyone else :)

Whoever owns a bike is entitled to do whatever they please with it. Sadly that seems to be a concept that is difficult to grasp for most. Guess they can't see past marketing tactics.

Did you follow the last 'race to the sky' at all? Birch, with all his immense skill, was plagued with rear tyre problems on the big KTM. One thing to hammer down on sand (the big old Dakar bikes in mind) compared to the seal and hard packed gravel I guess. Few of the competitors said it was well off the pace of the other bikes anyway.

Gremlin
15th January 2016, 16:29
If there's a smile on your face then you've got the right tool for the job I reckon. Fark everyone else :)

Whoever owns a bike is entitled to do whatever they please with it. Sadly that seems to be a concept that is difficult to grasp for most. Guess they can't see past marketing tactics.

Did you follow the last 'race to the sky' at all? Birch, with all his immense skill, was plagued with rear tyre problems on the big KTM. One thing to hammer down on sand (the big old Dakar bikes in mind) compared to the seal and hard packed gravel I guess. Few of the competitors said it was well off the pace of the other bikes anyway.
Yep, that's totally true, long as you're enjoying it. Plus the world would be a boring place if everyone rode the same thing. It's just that those vocal buggers are heard more than the rest that are happy. Except they probably buy a new one every two years ... so maybe they're worth more to BMW :confused: :laugh:

No, didn't watch Race to Sky, but yes, I wouldn't be surprised. On gravel I can easily provoke the BMW into wheel spin from exiting a corner to down the straight past 100kph from 1st to 5th gear...

The Honda has about 100hp? Might be a little underpowered if you want to storm along on seal 2up, but then while it can do it, that's not the main focus... get a 1200 Crosstourer for that...

nzspokes
15th January 2016, 17:53
They reckon they are to hard to ride and no fun offroad I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpCubYprqFQ

Bass
18th January 2016, 11:45
And that's why I'm annoyed when people take a GS and complain it needs 30+ more hp, or why does a tourer have 150hp etc. I've been up a rough gravel road, slightly crossed up, rear wheel spinning (felt like a god ;)) and 115hp ish was plenty... More HP only kills the tyre faster...

Chuckle

I still remember the day (when your ZX10 was still your pride and joy) that I told you I foresaw knobblies in your future. You looked at me like i was insane (which of course may have been quite true)

AllanB
18th January 2016, 14:35
Interesting reading above. $70k on the GS? scared to ask how you ran that up .....


100hp may not be enough for two up on the seal? Yesterday I was reading a old review about the Z900 Kawasaki Superbike of 1973 - now this 'beast' had a whopping 81 hp on tap and was a eye opening power horse.

Just spent a week up Kaiteriteri way with the family - lots of off the seal roads around there that would be ideal for exploring on a good all-rounder.

Reckon I should grab a cheap in-line four off trade me - strip off the crap add some wide fat-bars and spoon some adventure tyres on it .....

AllanB
18th January 2016, 14:50
Hmmm - anyone actually scrambling on their Ducati Scrambler? I spied a muddy one a few weeks back but it almost looked like a factory accessory 'mud kit' that you buy in a genuine Ducati tube and flick over your bike to look authentic ..... Ducati now offer a nice accessory catalog for their bikes - something HD have done for decades and now the other brands are finally taking notice (Triumph offer a great array of goodies).

Gremlin
18th January 2016, 20:53
You looked at me like i was insane (which of course may have been quite true)
Yeah... you were (or are). Now I am too... <_<


Interesting reading above. $70k on the GS? scared to ask how you ran that up .....
It was due to another thread on servicing costs. Bike was about 35k, and I've spent about that on accessories, servicing, consumables :mellow:

And since it's probably worth $10-15k on a good day... it just ain't worth switching... but I love it, so it doesn't matter. :love:

george formby
19th January 2016, 10:26
100hp may not be enough for two up on the seal? Yesterday I was reading a old review about the Z900 Kawasaki Superbike of 1973 - now this 'beast' had a whopping 81 hp on tap and was a eye opening power horse.


An ST1300 is 118hp or so. Dunno what kind of touring journos do but I think 100hp is plenty. Be more worried about my neck and bewttocks after a 500km + ride.

george formby
21st January 2016, 09:07
Test ride parameters....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lbeS4uaxzLM?list=RDDEvFGCjpToI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Waihou Thumper
21st January 2016, 11:16
Heathens, dis-believers who say it ain't an adventure bike! Top work that rider...:shit:










and if he broke it, they paused the video, ran to the garage and got another, then another...:)

Scubbo
21st January 2016, 11:39
more a reflection of the rider's skills, love the 3 dudes at the top of the rocks ready to hold it to stop it form scratch'n

true test is to ragdoll the bike down a rocky hill, if it starts up and is rideable after that, she's ready for adventure !

george formby
21st January 2016, 11:44
more a reflection of the rider's skills, love the 3 dudes at the top of the rocks ready to hold it to stop it form scratch'n

true test is to ragdoll the bike down a rocky hill, if it starts up and is rideable after that, she's ready for adventure !

True, true.
I doubt it's his bike, either. Still, nice to see something like that and not see KTM.

AllanB
21st January 2016, 17:51
Be funny if the camera pans out and it has dealer plates as he's on a 'test ride' :cool:

pampa
26th January 2016, 13:29
more a reflection of the rider's skills, love the 3 dudes at the top of the rocks ready to hold it to stop it form scratch'n

true test is to ragdoll the bike down a rocky hill, if it starts up and is rideable after that, she's ready for adventure !

I thought they're more of a suicidal squad, if that thing goes sideways ... :done:

Waihou Thumper
26th January 2016, 16:25
I thought they're more of a suicidal squad, if that thing goes sideways ... :done:

Looking after the paintwork and the riders rep....
Like I said previously, if it didn't work the first time, cut and paste, then publish!
It is all for the commercialism, the selling and the wow factor. It worked, so therefore ' it's a take! ' :)

Gremlin
26th January 2016, 20:27
Nothing a few pieces of protection won't fix. Only problem is I'm flesh and bone... the BMW barely suffers in any fall, but it's nailed me a few times...

nzspokes
26th January 2016, 20:37
Nothing a few pieces of protection won't fix. Only problem is I'm flesh and bone... the BMW barely suffers in any fall, but it's nailed me a few times...

Im more interested if they can do proper off road.

Heading to the Thundercross enduro loops if you are in town on Saturday.....

Gremlin
27th January 2016, 18:51
Heading to the Thundercross enduro loops if you are in town on Saturday.....
Must have a play there, and in summer, when I have the right tyres on...

So that's a no this time. Not in the city, and tyres will come off within weeks...

nzspokes
27th January 2016, 19:21
Must have a play there, and in summer, when I have the right tyres on...

So that's a no this time. Not in the city, and tyres will come off within weeks...

Borrow or hire a proper traily and see what its like.

Racing Dave
4th February 2016, 22:52
As seen on YouTube - the least informative review ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KexKW7gP0ow

Although this one comes close...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQr1S4CwMTk

Peril
5th February 2016, 23:34
One thing I learnt from Ali G in that first video,at least short asses should be able to touch the ground with both feet.

R650R
10th March 2016, 11:27
Africa Twin owners, how are they going..... Very likely to be my next bike after I shift the DR.....

george formby
10th March 2016, 12:02
I am looking forward to a test ride now they are in NZ. I would wait 6 months to a year before buying though as a good number of rider reviews will ba available then.

From what I have seen so far their could be some GS's and KTM's at a good price by then.
Watched a review on youtube recently, adventure spec channel or some such. They tested a rally raid riders AT and liked it. The owner was filmed hammering it through forestry and trails, probably in Wales. They drowned the bike, fired up no probs, and he binned it a couple of times denting the tank. His comment? Needs bigger footrests and protection.

That HP thing came up again. WTF, it's nearly a hundy HP and you can fit knobs to it. Get real journos. Still don't know if they have rim locks.

Crim
10th March 2016, 13:08
Africa Twin owners, how are they going..... Very likely to be my next bike after I shift the DR.....

taking one for a spin next week :cool:

Scubbo
10th March 2016, 13:25
I hear you will have to wait a while for ABS / DCT versions -- stock standard version is the only one shipping? if botany honda guy is to be believed

Night Falcon
10th March 2016, 18:08
Africa Twin owners, how are they going..... Very likely to be my next bike after I shift the DR.....

give Wade a call or pm....he's test ridden the std jobby, and reported it was way cool! ABS version would be my pref and I will be takin one for a spin hopefully in the not too distant future. They have some in Palmy Honda. Let me know if ya wanna head over for a lookseee:shifty:

JimmyC
10th March 2016, 20:26
Took the base model out a couple of weeks back from Hamilton Honda. Superbly comfortable bike, oodles of easy torque on tap. Handles remarkably well for its weight and front wheel size. The downside was it wasn't as slim through the middle as I was hoping or expecting. Everyone said it was this super slim machine but not my book. A bit surprised there.

Have now arranged to take a DCT model out on Monday and I"m really looking forward to that. That model is my preference. As George Formby says however, there are a few lower mileage 2013 model GS and KTMs starting to come through so I'm not as sure as I was. The WC 1200GS fits me like glove. Excellent wind screen, cruise, rider modes (especially Enduro mode), heated grips, all as standard... Hmm...

Racing Dave
11th March 2016, 16:55
[QUOTE=JimmyC;1130954619]Superbly comfortable bike, oodles of easy torque on tap. Handles remarkably well for its weight and front wheel size. The downside was it wasn't as slim through the middle as I was hoping or expecting. Everyone said it was this super slim machine but not my book. A bit surprised there. QUOTE]

I thought that, too.

I took Casbolt's demo mid-spec model (ABS and TCS) out for a spin today, and really enjoyed it. For those that know it, the Rapaki Track (in Chch) up to the Summit Road is now pretty much just a shingle road (in the good old days (I know - yawn) it was a rutted clay test of a big bike) but it has in several places some sticky-up knobbly patches of lava, and the AT glided over them, where my R1200GSA would have clattered.

The set-up wasn't ideal for my preference (I'd have rolled the bars forward, rotated the clutch and front brake lever downwards (and while I'm there, the brake lever is span adjustable but not the clutch - what's that about?), raised the gear lever, and removed the slack from the throttle cables, but maybe that's just me.

That said, in normal riding the gearing feels great, and it'll pick up speed on a gentle throttle from 2000rpm in 6th gear, but on Rapaki a certain amount of clutch slip in 1st gear was necessary when carefully lining up to cross the MTB-bridge gate by-passes, as the throttle response is quite abrupt just off idle, and at nadgery speed.

With the seat in the higher of two positions, at 1.78m tall I could get both feet on the ground, but not flat on the ground. It's a little bit fiddly to adjust, but once the technique is learnt, I think it'd be easier.

The traction control (torque something-or-other in Honda-speak) can be switched off and back on, on the fly, and just as well, as it reverts to maximum intervention if the key or kill switch is used. It's near impossible to do a hill start on a gravel road (Rapaki Track at the top end where it's steepest) on setting 3, you can get moving on setting 2, and there's a bit of wheelspin on setting 1. Turned off is best in these circumstances, and it's really easy to control a reasonable drift when standing. There are no surprises in the torque curve!

To switch off the ABS you must be stopped, and it stays switched off if the kill switch is used, but reverts to 'on' if the key is turned off. As far as I can tell, it only de-activates the rear brake.

The fairing appears to give decent protection from the wind and the mirrors are superb.

In summary, it's a Good Thing.

thepom
11th March 2016, 18:34
Would you change your BMW for one Dave ?

Racing Dave
12th March 2016, 08:16
Would you change your BMW for one Dave ?

Ah, Kenny, that's the million dollar question. Or, in this case, the $22,000 one. Or the no-frills $20,000 one or the bells and whistles $24,000 one.

The Africa Twin still needs money spent on it straight from the dealer - not much, but some. For me, as a minimum: Proper hand guards of the BarkBuster type, to replace the OK-if-it-rains-but-no-good-if-you-tip-over soft plastic ones; much larger foot pegs to give standing comfort for a long time; heated grips; a real bash plate - the oil filter/underside of the engine looks very vulnerable, even on a gravel road. A centre stand would be desirable, too - I like to lube the chain...

Fuel range is another issue. Honda quotes 'up to' 400km on a tank. I was the 3rd rider of the demo model, and I don't think that the trip computer had been reset by the two previous riders. Even so, this was only over the first 70km of the bike's life, and some (most?) of that was in the city. My ride was up the Rapaki Track, along the Summit Rd to the Kiwi, down to Governor's Bay, around the harbour to Lyttelton, through the tunnel and back to Casbolt's, which is kind of typical of its intended usage. The fuel consumption display showed an average of 6.4 litres/100km, which would only give 300km to bone dry on the 18.8-litre tank (no safety margin). That's well under half what I get on my GSA under similar conditions, and there's still a safety margin on top of that. An occasional glance at the instant usage display showed figures under 5 litres/100km at speeds under the speed limit. A better test would be a decently long ride under 'normal' riding conditions, and I'd be most interested to see what the true range is then. A long distance between being forced to stop for petrol is very important to me, and the Africa twin needs to average 4.7 litres/100km to meet Honda's figures.

nzspokes
12th March 2016, 11:46
It would seem not is all good in the world of the Africa Twin

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/africa-twin/145130-crf-dct-owners-please-take-note.html

george formby
12th March 2016, 11:59
It would seem not is all good in the world of the Africa Twin

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/africa-twin/145130-crf-dct-owners-please-take-note.html

Or perhaps Honda dealers.

Personally I think it's a good thing. I can't wheelie for toffee, sounds like just what I need.

Tazz
12th March 2016, 12:48
It would seem not is all good in the world of the Africa Twin

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/africa-twin/145130-crf-dct-owners-please-take-note.html

I like his picture :laugh:


http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g183/SamCordery/IMG_6964_zpsarm2jmtm.jpg

nerrrd
12th March 2016, 13:30
It would seem not is all good in the world of the Africa Twin

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/africa-twin/145130-crf-dct-owners-please-take-note.html

One incident does not a recall make. But yeah, I'd never get back on the thing either.

And disturbing that there was no automatic safety override on the bike - this is why I predict self driving cars will never in practice be allowed in numbers on ordinary roads, there's just too many variables that nobody's even thought of yet and the manufacturer will have to take the blame for every single accident - a couple of serious ones and they'll be sued out of business (in the US anyway). But I digress.


Or perhaps Honda dealers.

Dare I suggest they gave it to the apprentice since it was a 'simple' first service? I've had little things accidentally 'adjusted' out of whack in similar circumstances that I've had to put right when I got the bike home. But nothing that was going to kill me.

The DCT has been very reliable in the NC bikes like mine from what I've been reading online for the last few years, but maybe it's a less complicated version?

george formby
12th March 2016, 15:22
Dare I suggest they gave it to the apprentice since it was a 'simple' first service? I've had little things accidentally 'adjusted' out of whack in similar circumstances that I've had to put right when I got the bike home. But nothing that was going to kill me.



That crossed my mind, too. I believe that as the technology moves forward with cars mechanics are constantly having to up skill. EV's being the most obvious example, it's proposed that only fully certified technicians work on them. Bikes going the same way.

AllanB
12th March 2016, 16:46
My boss recently purchased a all but new BMW (it was a demo car from BMW in Japan - under 3k on the clock). Part of the deal was to have the electronic display changed to English etc.

I have lost count of how many times it has been buggered up. In the end they flew down from Auckland one of two NZ BMW certificated Euro electricians.


Sorted.

Woodman
12th March 2016, 16:56
Interesting...Personally I like changing gears.

Night Falcon
12th March 2016, 20:34
That crossed my mind, too. I believe that as the technology moves forward with cars mechanics are constantly having to up skill. EV's being the most obvious example, it's proposed that only fully certified technicians work on them. Bikes going the same way.

Back when I bought my 990 the KTM dealer I got it from didn't have any KTM certified twin cyl mechanics so weren't allowed to service it. I had to take it to AFC in Palmy, year latter the local ladz went down the gergla :(

JimmyC
12th March 2016, 20:49
It's one thing to say the electronics might fuck up and dump the clutch on a DCT, but suddenly rev to redline AND dump the clutch?! I fail to understand how that could've happened. The bike has a cable throttle, the clutch is electronic. The bike has no control over throttle input. Weird.

Gremlin
12th March 2016, 22:39
It's one thing to say the electronics might fuck up and dump the clutch on a DCT, but suddenly rev to redline AND dump the clutch?! I fail to understand how that could've happened. The bike has a cable throttle, the clutch is electronic. The bike has no control over throttle input. Weird.
Sounds like he gave it some, hit neutral, revs redline, he's all WTF, bike finds a gear... he's still got throttle applied :chase:

It sounds like he's on it, it's the handlebar switch gear playing up. The electronics inside the bike are likely all sealed but getting bad commands. New style switch gear on BMW K, LC GS etc have also been the source of a lot of issues.

george formby
12th March 2016, 22:53
It's one thing to say the electronics might fuck up and dump the clutch on a DCT, but suddenly rev to redline AND dump the clutch?! I fail to understand how that could've happened. The bike has a cable throttle, the clutch is electronic. The bike has no control over throttle input. Weird.

Hmmmm. I like your thinking.

Woodman
13th March 2016, 07:53
The base model sounds the best to me without all the trickery. Would be better with the flash paintjob though.

R650R
13th March 2016, 17:31
give Wade a call or pm....he's test ridden the std jobby, and reported it was way cool! ABS version would be my pref and I will be takin one for a spin hopefully in the not too distant future. They have some in Palmy Honda. Let me know if ya wanna head over for a lookseee:shifty:

Might do, pretty busy at work at moment. Passed Wade on road somewhere other week when I had 750 out....

vegeman
14th March 2016, 08:00
He's been hanging out for ages, and while he has riden both versions ie DCT and normal...he's going for normal. Basically, we all know how to ride dirt bikes properly, and since we have all that experience, it's something that needs to respected. We are so used to the levers and shifters, and know how to use and abuse them to do things we are expecting and force them to do things that are unexpected. If you are relatively new to the off road world, I can see DCT being cool and helpful...but I just know it will do things that you don't want, and probably at the time you need to do something else.

THe DCT version does look better though, but I'm sure that can be amended.

whatastoner
14th March 2016, 19:55
I've had mine for a week now. A tricolour ABS. It's a great bike. Plenty power, in fact way more than I need. Had to purchase a few extras from Honda namely ACC socket and various sub harnesses for Fog lights. Heated grips are reportedly rather poor so skipped those. There's not a lot of room under the plastics, of which there's plenty. Interesting to see how long they remain flexible as you have to bend them quite a bit. Apart from an optomistic speedo, 10% error, the instuments are excellent with all switchgear behaving themselves. Bike feels very light when moving, not top heavy like the 650.
Will be 2kg lighter when the new exhaust arrives.
I would thoroughly recommend one, but I am slightly biased.

whatastoner
14th March 2016, 20:14
It's a lot smaller. The weight saving is a bonus.

nzspokes
14th March 2016, 20:17
I would imagine a different exhaust would not be cheap. Why is it so important to replace the stock exhaust just to save 2kg when if you carry any gear it will likely weigh more than 2kg?

You dont really understand motorcycles do you?

george formby
14th March 2016, 20:38
Sounds like you bought a too bigger bike from a weight perspective.

That's a Cassina statement, right there. 2kg evicted from the right place is great. Google Jenny Craig.

Laava
14th March 2016, 20:58
It's a lot smaller. The weight saving is a bonus.

Plus we all do that for a better sound too dont we?

nzspokes
14th March 2016, 21:28
What I dont understand perhaps is the fact there are some motorcylists that are that affluent.

Maybe if you paid attention at school, you could be affluent as well. :weird:

nzspokes
15th March 2016, 05:44
For all you know I could already be affluent but just not that much. I bet auto/bike accessory stores like people like you who have oodles of money to spend on nonsensical accessories.

Affluent people generally know how to spell.

Woodman
15th March 2016, 06:30
I've had mine for a week now. A tricolour ABS. It's a great bike. Plenty power, in fact way more than I need. Had to purchase a few extras from Honda namely ACC socket and various sub harnesses for Fog lights. Heated grips are reportedly rather poor so skipped those. There's not a lot of room under the plastics, of which there's plenty. Interesting to see how long they remain flexible as you have to bend them quite a bit. Apart from an optomistic speedo, 10% error, the instuments are excellent with all switchgear behaving themselves. Bike feels very light when moving, not top heavy like the 650.
Will be 2kg lighter when the new exhaust arrives.
I would thoroughly recommend one, but I am slightly biased.

Goodonya, please tell me you still have the 650.

Woodman
15th March 2016, 06:32
So you think it is perfectly logical to buy a heavy bike thats $20k (possibly more) and change the exhaust to save 2kg in weight? What I dont understand perhaps is the fact there are some motorcylists that are that affluent. They are the minority though because so many bike shops have closed down over the years.

Go away......

Crim
15th March 2016, 11:37
I would thoroughly recommend one, but I am slightly biased.

you are a lucky man, Mark - just got back from a quick blast on a bike same as yours - it feels superb, heaps of power as you say PC Plod may introduce himself more then you would like - would love to get it on gravel but Casbolts would probably :angry:

vegeman
15th March 2016, 13:24
I've had
Will be 2kg lighter when the new exhaust arrives

Cool, what exhaust system ate you getting?

whatastoner
15th March 2016, 14:51
A remus slip on.

whatastoner
15th March 2016, 15:28
Goodonya, please tell me you still have the 650.
Yep. Won't be losing that one any time soon.

thepom
16th March 2016, 06:58
Cassini = penis= troll


Ignore him and he might go away....

nzspokes
16th March 2016, 09:17
Cassini = penis= troll


Ignore him and he might go away....

Your wrong. She is female.

And not gone away yet.

JimmyC
16th March 2016, 10:33
Got to take the DCT model out on Monday. Only had a lunch hour sadly but 40 mins riding was enough to confirm it as definitely my preferred pick of the AT’s.

In a single word, it’s fun. A ton of fun. I spent most of the time grinning stupidly in my helmet actually. Heading out toward Raglan, pegging the throttle and just flicking my way up the gears with my index finger, then blipping back down with my thumb. Downshifts are so smooth. If it’s this much fun on road, I can only imagine what it’s like off road… I guess I was really surprised with it, seeing my initial concern was that as an auto it would be too scooter like and be boring to ride, but it’s really anything but.

When back in town flick across to an auto mode and go with the flow. D for Drive is too sedate, unless you’re going for max fuel conservation. S2 seemed the best for me during my brief time in it, held on to gears nicely, but not too long. Pootling along at 55kmph, it was in 3rd which was a little low for cruising, so just change up with an index finger into 4th, you always have control if you need it, even in auto mode. It’s so smooth around town and you’re all but impossible to beat at the lights.

I got to try some very slow 1st gear action, standing on the pegs in a large gravel car park. Roll on is super smooth and you’re aware of minimal clutch slippage. Didn’t get to try the G button to see what difference it made.

Anyhoo, try it if you get a chance, I definitely recommend it.

Waipukbiker
17th March 2016, 14:40
Very good write up on all 3 of the models in the latest Kiwirider mag.

R650R
2nd April 2016, 21:52
Has anyone asked about servicing costs/intervals.... as I've heard in the past the new VFR are very expensive to topend service due to so much things to remove for access and the vtec arrangement too.
I was wondering if the dual clutch for the DCT needs special/dealer only adjustments?????

Night Falcon
3rd April 2016, 16:47
Has anyone asked about servicing costs/intervals.... as I've heard in the past the new VFR are very expensive to topend service due to so much things to remove for access and the vtec arrangement too.
I was wondering if the dual clutch for the DCT needs special/dealer only adjustments?????

Yes. 1st service 1,000K's there after 12K. Std service cost (oil/filters) $300.00 Valves checks @ 24K intervals

AllanB
3rd April 2016, 19:16
Yes. 1st service 1,000K's there after 12K. Std service cost (oil/filters) $300.00 Valves checks @ 24K intervals

About the same for just about any new motorcycle regardless of style then. Good stuff.



Sooooo who's buying them? Lots of hype and interest internationally and I hope that transforms to sales for Honda.

Night Falcon
3rd April 2016, 19:26
About the same for just about any new motorcycle regardless of style then. Good stuff.



Sooooo who's buying them? Lots of hype and interest internationally and I hope that transforms to sales for Honda.

I'd like one but have been burnt before buying the 1st run of a new bike which turned out to have some flaws that needed to be corrected on latter models. Should I wait 12months and see how they are when the hype drops off and pick up a used/demo and save some cash? I'd also have to part with my 530 which would be painful....but not impossible......hummm few guys need to stack up some decent K's then report back....quick. :corn:

R650R
4th April 2016, 16:20
I'd like one but have been burnt before buying the 1st run of a new bike which turned out to have some flaws that needed to be corrected on latter models. Should I wait 12months and see how they are when the hype drops off and pick up a used/demo and save some cash? I'd also have to part with my 530 which would be painful....but not impossible......hummm few guys need to stack up some decent K's then report back....quick. :corn:

Yes wise words. With regard to service I was meaning more in hour much hours they would charge...

Think I might wait for a second hand one that already has a titanium system on it. Hopefully someone will make some crashbars that don't look like a towel rail too!
Those standard jobbys need some chequer plate or perforated stainless plates tagged on mad max style.

Night Falcon
5th April 2016, 16:35
went for nosy to Ericson Honda for another looksee at the Twins.....They seem rather fat around the font end compared to my o'll 990, the tank fairings are like those old hoop dresses the shelas used to wear back in the 1800's. Makes seeing the front wheel "challenging".....but first impressions can be misleading. No DCT in stock for a while yet they said.

320825320826

pomgolian
5th April 2016, 21:06
went for nosy to Ericson Honda for another looksee at the Twins.....They seem rather fat around the font end compared to my o'll 990, the tank fairings are like those old hoop dresses the shelas used to wear back in the 1800's. Makes seeing the front wheel "challenging".....but first impressions can be misleading. No DCT in stock for a while yet they said.

320825320826

Sounds like your tempted Marty

Night Falcon
6th April 2016, 14:58
Tempted but too poor,

Here's Clint Vrse the AT


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxLxk_y5RtI

pomgolian
6th April 2016, 19:14
Bloody hell they fall over easily :blink: he was lucky not to head butt that big rock !!

Muzz67
6th April 2016, 21:19
Bloody hell they fall over easily
It aint the bikes, it's coz Clint is awesome.

XF650
7th April 2016, 10:39
Even at Fairlie A&P Show
320863

ducatijim
7th April 2016, 13:32
Even at Fairlie A&P Show
]

Now, that would be fairly unusual.

george formby
7th April 2016, 18:32
Now, that would be fairly unusual.

Looking around at the bike stand you would expect to see some fairly adventurous farmers keeping you company.

Muzz67
7th April 2016, 19:26
Now, that would be fairly unusual.
3 'U's in a word is unusual too.

Woodman
7th April 2016, 20:12
oh I dunno, every time I go to Fairlie the streets are full of adventure bikes.:laugh:

R650R
17th April 2016, 15:52
Saw a red Africa twin coming into the bay on Saturday just before lunch on Taupo rd. Frontal profile looks like much smaller bike than it is.
See a second hand one on TM already due o demerit points!!!!

Racing Dave
18th April 2016, 09:46
See a second hand one on TM already due o demerit points!!!!

2nd hand for new price? I don't think so.

Seems to me that one would be better in the Optimistic Sellers thread...

Tazz
18th April 2016, 14:25
2nd hand for new price? I don't think so.

Seems to me that one would be better in the Optimistic Sellers thread...

Yeah it usually goes something like 'In great condition! Exactly like new, just apart from all this shit here and there that is damaged, broken or has been replaced...' :laugh:

Night Falcon
18th April 2016, 21:52
2nd hand for new price? I don't think so.

Seems to me that one would be better in the Optimistic Sellers thread...

yup....he's banking on strong demand low supply to get a new price for old lamb......some dealers are taking orders while others have stock ready to go (you can buy one off the shop floor from one of local dealers). His lack of right hand self control might set him back more than a few demerit points.

Night Falcon
19th April 2016, 22:39
AT or 1050 KTM??? surely one of the predominant question for our time :scratch:

Woodman
20th April 2016, 07:37
AT or 1050 KTM??? surely one of the predominant question for our time :scratch:

AT, the ktm doesn't have spokes.

Night Falcon
20th April 2016, 09:28
AT, the ktm doesn't have spokes.

and the front is only 19inch but for light adv/gravel riding I'm not sure that's a major.....is it? they are tubeless though...no more pinch flats :headbang:

1050 has been around longer so we know more about it unlike those things we don't yet know about the AT....waiting to catch out the hype driven purchaser :shifty: corroding spokes seems to be hacking some blokes off - could be a hassle with the beach riding up here's.......

Woodman
20th April 2016, 18:00
and the front is only 19inch but for light adv/gravel riding I'm not sure that's a major.....is it? they are tubeless though...no more pinch flats :headbang:

1050 has been around longer so we know more about it unlike those things we don't yet know about the AT....waiting to catch out the hype driven purchaser :shifty: corroding spokes seems to be hacking some blokes off - could be a hassle with the beach riding up here's.......

Yeah, but you know what light adventure riding turns into, and corroded spokes shouldn't be a problem unless your adv bike is a garage queen. Tubeless spoked rims do exist.

R650R
28th April 2016, 20:54
https://www.akrapovic.com/#!/motorcycle/product/road/16669/sound?brandId=30&modelId=784&yearId=4271

scroll down and press play :)

GPS MAN
5th May 2016, 16:04
Ohhhh...that sound good:msn-wink:

GPS MAN
5th May 2016, 16:13
But, I like the sound of the Remus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK3KTt0VA10

Has the baffle ..would like to hear it drive by without the baffle:clap:

Night Falcon
5th May 2016, 16:41
either sound would suit me just fine. :niceone:

vegeman
5th May 2016, 17:24
Hi,
Clearly, the love fest continues with the new sparkly object and I feel the need to stick my nose in, as after going for a adventure ride with a very competent off road rider (Paul) on their new AT, and while the ride was completed...I could see that the wieght of the bike, the height of the bike, and the lack of real protection (without adding more weight) was starting to become a limiting factor ie the riders viewpoint was that was a cool ride, but I don't know if I'd want to do that again on the AT

I feel somewhat dissappointed as I was hoping for a buddy that could do what the 690 does so well (any road, any route) and with the way the market is going with these 'big' bikes, I might again be riding on my own. Crikey...it wasn't that long ago, the 690 was classed as heavy...now all these big bikes are changing the norm...sure its not all bad, but it seems that once people get these bikes, the reality of taking them 'offroad' changes. In my eyes, the just become gravel and road machines...and perhaps that is what adventure riding is becoming i.e. road riders getting more dirt time...more than dirt riders travelling on road to get to the back country

question...Would you take the AT on the dusty butt and do the awakino challenge, or perhaps ride the 42nd traverse...I'd say the bike "could", but I also say you'd do it once. and thats a maybe.

So...My thoughts on the quick ride of the bike. and thought it was nice, well balanced, comfortable, capable and just 'normal' really ie nothing truly amazing, but also nothing bad. The bike engine is solid, pulls from anywhere, smooth, enough power to wheelie, but not crazy power...which is great for fast gravel roads. Ground clearance etc, all good (needs bash plate). Fuel range was 300K+...

Interestingly, and it was Pauls comment that he is always surprised how quick my 690 is, and thats road speak, not dirt speak. The AT would have higher top speed but thats about it...and thats not what adventuring is.

Relax dudes...This isnt a 690 is better rant...more of the rant about how big they are getting, and it's limiting (in reality) on what and where you can go. Sure the paid riders etc show that they 'can' do amazing stuff but I'm seeing already more going to this larger platform and then reducing the places they go.

Night Falcon
5th May 2016, 18:12
Fair comments Veg and i'd say that pretty much sums up the big bike for most riders, gravel and seal. When I sold my 990 I wanted smaller for the very reasons you mentioned. The 690 ticked a lot of those boxes, its just annoying KTM didn't adventurise it from the factory like the 640.

8yrs latter however, (and a big crash) and I find myself heading back to the big bike again. For me I cant handle too much hardercore adv work any longer :crazy:but still want to ride. Getting a totally road focused bike is just not in my DNA so these bigger bikes are back in my sights.....and they can still hack limited off road as you say so that's a big plus. Not sure I'd want to do the 42nd on one either but I have taken the 990 in there and Fishers (when it wasn't a gravel highway) so I know it can be done.

Long as your still riding, that's the main thing though. I'd love an AT but meh....given what you have said a 1050 will do the same job for me and for less cash, your so right mate....not many of us are gonna be riding like Chris Birch!

Gremlin
5th May 2016, 18:20
Having a R1200GSA I can certainly say that when looking for something interesting it seems to go from boring gravel :zzzz: to holyshitnoway :crazy: pretty damn quick :oi-grr: I need more in between...

george formby
5th May 2016, 19:37
Vegeman nails it.

I love the thought of these big adventure bikes but realistically for me it's a styling exercise. I would think twice about going further than I already do on my road bike and doubt I would be any quicker. 200kg + is heavy metal. Then again, if your riding the world, laden to the gunnels and reeking of crocodile repellent, you need a bruiser of a bike to carry all the camera equipment.

The proposed XTZ 700 may have more adventurous potential and less mass. We shall see.

I watched a vid recently of a good rider punting a V Strom 1000 around a moto x track, air space, berms, whoops, the works. Doesn't make me want to buy one, though.

Night Falcon
5th May 2016, 20:13
The reality is a lot of the smaller 650 DS bikes are (or very nearly) as heavy as the 800-1000cc bikes. At least the bigger ones have the grunt and torque to compensate for their weight. Handling bigger bikes is more challenging but you don't have to be Birchy to get them round off road safely.

Lighter off road will always be better but I've seen and ridden with enough guys on big bikes to know how capable they can be.....great suspension and gearing helps a lot as well, maybe more so than on a smaller bike.....that's why I've ridded KTM's for the last 10yrs and you should too :devil2:

Todays Lesson:
Don't fall into the trap of limiting a bikes capability based on our own limitations as a rider :Offtopic:

Woodman
5th May 2016, 21:38
Interesting comments.
Yeah the bigger bikes do make you change your riding a bit e.g. I refused to take the GS over the Awakino at this years dustybutt because I knew it would have been a pain in the ass. Riding the bigger bikes makes for a few more challenges because they are bigger, but they also give you two great out clauses. If you manage to get the behemoth through something challenging then you can bask in the glory of how skilled you think you are, and conversely if it all goes pear shaped then you can blame the bike. Its a win win.

Vege is right about the 690, ticks the most boxes for me, still not sure why I don't own one.

BTW a CRF1000 has done a dustybutt including the awakino.

Bass
6th May 2016, 07:32
I have a DR 650 with pretty much every farkle known to man. It has taken me to places that I never dreamed I would visit.

I decided that i would like to take my wife to some of these places too - not all of them - just some of the easier to get to ones.

We tried getting to them on a Triumph Sprint with a less than 50% success rate. We now own a GS and the rate has gone up quite a bit. The GS is quite a bit more stable and quicker through the gravel than the Sprint was, but the tyres are no doubt a big factor. The GS is also a really comfortable touring machine.
I thought the Triumph handled well (after some suspension tweaking). The GS leaves it in the dust.

So, safe to say I'm pretty happy with my purchase, but I will never be able to take the big pig to some of the places that the DR goes to pretty easily. That's why I didn't get a GSA.

Bass
6th May 2016, 07:38
Todays Lesson:
Don't fall into the trap of limiting a bikes capability based on our own limitations as a rider :Offtopic:


Sorry but I don't agree.
If the weakest link in the chain is me (and it usually is), then where I can get to, is directly determined by how easy to ride the bike is. I will always get further on my DR than my GS.

Night Falcon
6th May 2016, 08:04
Sorry but I don't agree.
If the weakest link in the chain is me (and it usually is), then where I can get to, is directly determined by how easy to ride the bike is. I will always get further on my DR than my GS.

Bass, Bass, Bass:facepalm: your on the wrong boat :wacko:.....so what your saying is a bike's capabilities should judged by yours? OK I agree, we disagree :killingme

Bass
6th May 2016, 08:59
so what your saying is a bike's capabilities should judged by yours?

Nope.
I'm saying that we are a set. For best results, it's the capability of the combination that counts.

Example:
I bought a GS. The GSA is arguably (slightly) more offroad capable (it's certainly tougher) but it would have made no difference to me. I would be in a tangled heap at the same point on either machine.
It simply doesn't matter how good the bike is, it's how good the bike and I are that gets results. Granted there's likely to be some link between the two, but as in the example I gave, not always.

george formby
6th May 2016, 09:12
Defo food for thought being posted now.

A couple of comments have made me think back to how I originally felt taking the TDM on our gravel roads. The urge to do it was greater than the fear of what could happen if I screwed up. Initially the pucker factor was intense but as my off road ability has improved, learning techniques and practicing on real dirt bikes, I'm at a point where I almost feel confident riding the behemoth on our gravel and clay roads on sport touring tires. The bike does not give a damn.

So knowing the bikes abilities are far greater than the average rider leaves lots of room for challenge and improvement. Just a case of getting the head in the right place and improving riding ability.

And knowing your limits... LOL.:sweatdrop

Racing Dave
6th May 2016, 11:38
Having a R1200GSA I can certainly say that when looking for something interesting it seems to go from boring gravel :zzzz: to holyshitnoway :crazy: pretty damn quick :oi-grr: I need more in between...

Too true - here are a couple of photos taken at Edwards Pass. Easy to cross the stream - until my back wheel caught a rock and I lost my speed. Getting up the bank took a serious effort. By myself I would have been stuffed!

Gremlin
6th May 2016, 12:23
Getting up the bank took a serious effort. By myself I would have been stuffed!
:lol: Always better when you can convince a mate or two to come on a ride. Little do they know what they're in for if you hit any problems. Plus you can try trickier stuff knowing they're on hand :D

Muzz67
6th May 2016, 12:47
:lol: Always better when you can convince a mate or two to come on a ride. Little do they know what they're in for if you hit any problems. Plus you can try trickier stuff knowing they're on hand :D

At least if ya fall off when alone,, it didn't happen.
But then its easier to tackle tricky shit when there's back-up muscle.

Woodman
6th May 2016, 13:01
Lots of guys perhaps fell for the advertising on the AT and thought they would be able to do the same thing too. I read a post where one guy who bought an AT wanted to make it lighter by changing the exhaust but that weight would likely be made back up again and more with any gear carried. So it seems to me he has bought the wrong bike. It has been stated that most people that buy big adventure bikes are only wanting dirt road handling ability anyway. If you are paying 20k or more for a bike unless you are rich you will not be wanting to take it places where there is a high chance of dropping it anyway.

If I was paying 20k for an adventure bike I would be taking it more places where there is a high risk of droppage to get my moneys worth, and anyway the bulk of the dropping on the big bikes in my experience are slow or no speed drops so damage is minimal anyway.

Night Falcon
6th May 2016, 13:25
Nope.
I'm saying that we are a set. For best results, it's the capability of the combination that counts.

Example:
I bought a GS. The GSA is arguably (slightly) more off road capable (it's certainly tougher) but it would have made no difference to me. I would be in a tangled heap at the same point on either machine.
It simply doesn't matter how good the bike is, it's how good the bike and I are that gets results. Granted there's likely to be some link between the two, but as in the example I gave, not always.

Don't disagree with any of this. The point I was endeavoring to make was evaluating the Bike's general ability to cope with off road terrain - not the riders, or the bike and the riders. Flagging a bike because you don't think you can handle it in the rough is one thing, but that's not to say the bike couldn't easily cope with it......I'm talking an average off road rider skills here not ex extreme enduro pilots

But back on topic :D The AT certainly falls into this category....will a lot of owners take if off road lots? maybe not....is the bike capable of handling it....definitely!....that's all I'm sayin :innocent:.

Bass
6th May 2016, 13:49
Don't disagree with any of this. The point I was endeavoring to make was evaluating the Bike's general ability to cope with off road terrain - not the riders, or the bike and the riders. Flagging a bike because you don't think you can handle it in the rough is one thing, but that's not to say the bike couldn't easily cope with it......I'm talking an average off road rider skills here not ex extreme enduro pilots

But back on topic :D The AT certainly falls into this category....will a lot of owners take if off road lots? maybe not....is the bike capable of handling it....definitely!....that's all I'm sayin :innocent:.

Furry muff - semantics eh.

george formby
6th May 2016, 14:42
I guess now that a spate of videos showing big beemers in strife are available for comparison we just need to wait for AT vids to surface and then we can gauge which one gets the most stuck. Always a good off road bench mark. Some bikes have an ability to tempt mere mortals into some very precarious situations. ;)

Gremlin
6th May 2016, 16:13
I guess now that a spate of videos showing big beemers in strife
You gotta be joking. We all ride them like this:

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cssIp4p0608" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ok, maybe not :rolleyes: This guy seems to be able to make a compilation by himself:

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3_xtZIXZcss" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

george formby
6th May 2016, 16:42
Two vids succinctly showing the can and the can't. Well done.

The poor bugger in the 2nd one, on road tires..... I felt sorry for him. He needs to weight the pegs more. :laugh:

Gremlin
6th May 2016, 16:47
He needs to weight the pegs more. :laugh:
I would imagine all big adventure bikes are similar in riding style. Momentum is actually your friend, you want to bulldoze through things... until momentum is your enemy and then it's your nemesis.

Clearly some momentum would have helped there and make some of it look really easy, but equally, when it hits a rock, or your wheel starts going in the wrong direction, it's super hard to bring it back. Road tyres... yeah, really not a good idea. That's actually one of the beauties of these big bikes. Throw on road tyres, do long days back to back in comfort. Switch to knobblies and they're reasonably competent (ability directly proportional to your stupidity) in rough environments.

george formby
6th May 2016, 16:54
The peg weighting was defo tongue in cheek and I totally agree with the momentum. That's what I learned on the TDM, don't sit there like a rigid muppet, stand up, relax, look, and ride the bloody thing with the right hand.

Box'a'bits
7th May 2016, 10:27
Marks for persistence through...:facepalm:

vegeman
8th May 2016, 10:11
. At least the bigger ones have the grunt and torque to compensate for their weight. :

100% correct. The AT with a 1000cc really feels a lot more like a 690 in regards to power overcoming the weight. It has torque, and power to wheelie so it's ok from that perspective.

I know we often get to performance in these discussions, while for some it's not important, but for me, I like a bit of grunt and excitement that power gives. Besides the hoon factor, power helps riding. Being able to pop the wheel over obstacles, streams etc or punch into a head wind, over take traffic, attempt a hill climb in the wrong gear or have enough power to pull higher gearing so that roads are manageable. I would rather put a better seat and better fairing on the 690, which in my mind is all the AT really offers. Forget the big bikes here in NZ...save them for the continent riding. (I rode a GSA in Aussie and thought it was great).

I also take on board that as we age, we are also not up for hard core riding which again leads me to suggest lighter bikes not heavier?...PS love the NF 530 adventure btw

vegeman
8th May 2016, 10:24
[QUOTE=Gremlin;1130968855]You gotta be joking. We all ride them like this:

QUOTE]

That 2nd guy bought the dream I bet when he put all his shit on it and rode it out the garage...like mentioned here, too slow, too frustrating to watch...if he carried momentum and let the bike do its stuff....it would be fine. I think it fall off anything.

The aussie ride I did was with Geoff Ballard and his mate ,who were pre riding the course for the Aussie BMW safari so he lent me an older GSA1200 and I was clearly concerned riding with a legend like him but he;s awesome and is about the ride more than trying to break speed records...yet he does prefer taking the bike where they shouldn't. I was genuinely surprised where this big pig would go but you really have to be good first, as learning on that is hard. I only dropped it once, got stuck-ish twice and let him ride it down one fucking nasty downhill, I didn't want to wreck his bike, nor myself!!

Night Falcon
8th May 2016, 14:22
How many of us actually give a decent amount of thought to the riding we actually do (opposed to would like to do) or are capable of doing before deciding on a bike? Then there's the try it and see approach of ownership....I've just done that one, its expensive when it don't work out.

Big bikes have their limitations, that's a given, but they do cover a broad range of bases. Generally speaking you get:

A good road bike that handles blasting, commuting, day tripping, or touring.
They can carry good amount of luggage and a passenger
Not lacking on power...wow factor is important...on ya Veg for pointing that out!
Can get you off the beaten track and will handle quite gnarly terrain....if your up to it.
Are more comfortable ride....big plus for broken down over 50's

I do like the AT and also the 1050 but its 19inch front wheel was getting me down....until I realized nearly all the competition including the 1190 adv as well as zee fuer of all adventure bikes, the BMW GSA all have 19inch fronts and 17inch rears. So I don't think its going to limit me much at all especially in 99% of the terrain I will be riding it in.

I looked hard at a new 690 last night which is also a $20K+ bike (with all the add-ons I would need to hiff at it) but in the end most of the reasons you'd want a great lightweight adv bike for I wont be needing :cry: and I had that and more with the 530 I just sold :cry::cry:

The big bikes are quite possibly overkill for NZ conditions, but as Arnie says in his latest war game advert.....why send in one attack Helicopter when six will do! :headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :headbang:

Gremlin
8th May 2016, 15:33
I do like the AT and also the 1050 but its 19inch front wheel was getting me down....until I realized nearly all the competition including the 1190 adv as well as zee fuer of all adventure bikes, the BMW GSA all have 19inch fronts and 17inch rears. So I don't think its going to limit me much at all especially in 99% of the terrain I will be riding it in.
Tyre size is probably a good indicator for separating the bikes. Older 1200GS/GSA have 19/17 combos, same as Vstrom and a few others (list escapes me). New BMW has it's own sizes and tyres are the most expensive. Also wider, so potentially not as off road suitable. I think the KTM 1190 has 19/17 and the 1190R has 21/18. The AT has 21/18 from memory and tubed (not tubeless). The tube was actually quite off putting. Don't know if I could do the whole road side patching. Sticking a turd in seems a lot more appealing.

The thing is, that tyre size dictates what you can run. The PR4 Trail only goes to 19/17, nothing for 21/18 (Anakee 3 I think will be the most road biased you'll get). You'll get more aggressive tyres available for the 21/18, so for me at least, that's how I weigh up some of the options. A TKC80 (or other option) is definitely the most I'll need for adv riding, and I've used a couple of sets of PR4 because it's a great road performer and also has low rolling resistance giving me good fuel consumption when I'm doing a lot of sealed road riding.

Night Falcon
8th May 2016, 17:08
tyre size dictates what you can run.

There are options but they are more limited as you point out. Shenko have a radial 705 adventure tire that comes in a 19/17 combo that has some good reviews for a cheap tire. TKC80's are about the worst tire I've ever run for tire life and in 19 or 17inch they are mega expensive. Mitas E07 is a good tire and comes in 19 & 17inch.

At the end of the day if the tire is maybe less aggressive than you would prefer then I tend to ride slower and, as I don't want to ever take a 200+kg bike into mud (again :facepalm:) less aggressive isn't such a big deal.

Big bikes can be a lot of fun, the 990 lc8 motor is awesome, you just gotta know what your getting yourself into. I didn't fully appreciate that last time round, experience has its benefits :devil2:

Here's a good thread for 50/50 tire availability 50/50 DS Tire Guide (http://www.advpulse.com/adv-products/50-50-dual-sport-tire-buying-guide/2/)

Racing Dave
9th May 2016, 18:23
TKC80's are about the worst tire I've ever run for tire life and in 19 or 17inch they are mega expensive. Mitas E07 is a good tire and comes in 19 & 17inch.



You're damn right there. On my first DB1K (Northern route) I had a set of new TKC80s fitted to my GSA, and by the end of the ride (+ by road, at gentle speed, to Nelson and back from Christchurch) the rear wouldn't have passed a WoF - stuffed at well under 2000km. The front lasted quite a bit better, as you'd expect.

Night Falcon
13th May 2016, 09:16
Took the AT for a spin on Wednesday (shout out to Ericson Honda). Apart from almost getting bushwacked by a Nissan Primera fleeing the cops after a home invasion (latter totaled up the Napier Taupo), it was an enjoyable ride.
Coming from a 530 it felt a bit like whale rider but the bike was way comfortable and easy to ride like they say. Power delivery was very linea and smooth. The bike set-up was all wrong for me so that was distracting. With my Arai XD4 on the buffeting from the screen was also annoying.

Conclusion....great bike but didn't quite do it for me....too much time on smaller bikes I expect so not the AT's fault. Maybe a well setup DR is all I need:yawn:

Bass
13th May 2016, 12:14
Maybe a well setup DR is all I need:yawn:

Have I got a deal for you!!!!

vegeman
13th May 2016, 14:56
Took the AT for a spin on Wednesday (shout out to Ericson Honda). Apart from almost getting bushwacked by a Nissan Primera fleeing the cops after a home invasion (latter totaled up the Napier Taupo), it was an enjoyable ride.
Coming from a 530 it felt a bit like whale rider but the bike was way comfortable and easy to ride like they say. Power delivery was very linea and smooth. The bike set-up was all wrong for me so that was distracting. With my Arai XD4 on the buffeting from the screen was also annoying.

Conclusion....great bike but didn't quite do it for me....too much time on smaller bikes I expect so not the AT's fault. Maybe a well setup DR is all I need:yawn:

my view as well, nice...but just that, nice. So Marty, why the hell aren't you just getting the 690 again...you know it's the right one, you went lighter with the 530 and the AT are big and lets face it...boring, the 690 is the goldilocks solution, not too heavy, not too light...

Night Falcon
13th May 2016, 16:58
my view as well, nice...but just that, nice. So Marty, why the hell aren't you just getting the 690 again...you know it's the right one, you went lighter with the 530 and the AT are big and lets face it...boring, the 690 is the goldilocks solution, not too heavy, not too light...

thinking looooooooooooooooong and hard about it.

Muzz67
15th May 2016, 17:06
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-1087192328.htm

Night Falcon
15th May 2016, 17:09
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dual-purpose/auction-1087192328.htm

less than 6 months ownership, maybe he wants the DCT or ABS?

R650R
28th May 2016, 09:05
Since having the DR after a life of sportsbikes only I've enjoyed the relaxed upright riding position and the extra ground clearance to be able to park anywhere even if it is a slightly remuera 4WD aspect.
Even most of us 'adventure riders' prob spend 90% of our miles on tarmac. Unless you live out in the whops its a long way to any true 'adventure' riding these days.
I want comfort, extra horsepower and ability to plow though dumb stuff when required, and a bike that's comfortable for big miles. But I don't ant a lot of the other bikes in the crusier/ sport tourer category that are even heavier than the AT or too road biased.
I am tempted by a 690 still.....

cynna
28th May 2016, 15:24
Even most of us 'adventure riders' prob spend 90% of our miles on tarmac. Unless you live out in the whops its a long way to any true 'adventure' riding these days.
.

another northislander i assume

Night Falcon
28th May 2016, 15:39
690 is a good choice as long as your prepared to spend the cash to make it a comfortable distance bike. There are loads of aftermarket options for them now which is great but it gets pretty expensive. If your not wanting hardcore off road the bigger bikes start to make a lot of sense.......I'm liking the 1050 again :shutup:

Woodman
28th May 2016, 16:00
690 is a good choice as long as your prepared to spend the cash to make it a comfortable distance bike. There are loads of aftermarket options for them now which is great but it gets pretty expensive. If your not wanting hardcore off road the bigger bikes start to make a lot of sense.......I'm liking the 1050 again :shutup:

Also, after a days exploring and you are miles from home you can sit in your armchair and just soak up the miles riding home. Except for the fuel bill the old GS is great for the long range missions.

R650R
28th May 2016, 22:10
another northislander i assume

Yes. At least an hours tarmac in any direction before decent off road stuff. Some stuff closer but too many farm/lifestyle block driveways and CCTV cameras to have too much fun...

R650R
28th May 2016, 22:11
690 is a good choice as long as your prepared to spend the cash to make it a comfortable distance bike. There are loads of aftermarket options for them now which is great but it gets pretty expensive. If your not wanting hardcore off road the bigger bikes start to make a lot of sense.......I'm liking the 1050 again :shutup:

I was google "window' shopping and OMFG at the prices for Tanks....

R650R
28th May 2016, 22:14
Also, after a days exploring and you are miles from home you can sit in your armchair and just soak up the miles riding home. Except for the fuel bill the old GS is great for the long range missions.

Yep. A big day out is not so great of your knackered when you get home or not looking forward to the last leg... That's what keeps the SRAD away from the scrapheap. Even though its sportsbike, its still relatively comfortable coming home after big miles and the excess horsepower allows boredom relief when needed :)

R650R
2nd July 2016, 15:09
Aussie bloke, watch his other vid overview walkaround good detail on interesting extras. Those crash bars look better than the Honda towel rails...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC0CrXRX9RQ

R650R
2nd July 2016, 16:23
Just been 'windows'" (sic) shopping on the internet....
Vital modifications I would consider must haves as detailed below add up to $2900 NZD without shipping costs.
These include;
Full Termignoni system, SW Motech crashbars, BB bash plate, BB Luggage rack rear, BB radiator guard.

But after that one mean setup.... hmmm better go buy lotto ticket, only seen two second hand bikes come up on TM so far.....

Night Falcon
2nd July 2016, 16:48
peered through Ericson Hondas window this afternoon on the way back from Wairoa.....they still got both AT's on the shop floor. Would have thought the white one would have sold by now given the talk from the sales guy of back orders being held up cos an Earth Quake had disabled the AT factory.:corn:

AllanB
2nd July 2016, 17:32
Would not waste coin on a full system - just a slip-on if you want some growl.

Honda must be pissed - after years of ho-hum bikes they produce something people say they really want then the plant gets stuffed.....:weep:


May as well tool up for the second gen version!

R650R
3rd July 2016, 15:30
Would not waste coin on a full system - just a slip-on if you want some growl.

Honda must be pissed - after years of ho-hum bikes they produce something people say they really want then the plant gets stuffed.....:weep:


May as well tool up for the second gen version!

Also weight loss and getting rid of the CAT... mmmmm titanium (if I win lotto)

R650R
12th July 2016, 17:31
hhhmmmmmmmm custom 35L alloy tank right about exhaust pipes...........

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204679881595224&set=pcb.1120985897961544&type=3&theater

Gremlin
12th July 2016, 17:58
Granted my attempt wasn't as flash, but having an auxiliary tank on my KTM 990SM was a PITA. It was T'd into the main fuel line and gravity fed, but wasn't consistent. Sometimes it would draw first leaving the primary tank till last (nice), sometimes the main tank would empty first then the secondary kicked in (ok) and sometimes it wouldn't draw from the secondary at all even with the primary empty. On that note I wasn't in a happy mood to run out of fuel in the CBD motorway at night, with a full tank of gas behind me being ignored. <_<

While it's heavy full, just the GSA tank makes life a lot easier, although I was also considering speed of fuel delivery, and stopping to transfer was equivalent to just stopping at a gas station anyway, with less messing around trying to transfer fuel (assuming there was a station).

Also, you typically pack to the rear of the bike, so having the fuel up front left more space/capacity/options for the rear.

R650R
14th July 2016, 15:41
Granted my attempt wasn't as flash, but having an auxiliary tank on my KTM 990SM was a PITA. It was T'd into the main fuel line and gravity fed, but wasn't consistent. Sometimes it would draw first leaving the primary tank till last (nice), sometimes the main tank would empty first then the secondary kicked in (ok) and sometimes it wouldn't draw from the secondary at all even with the primary empty. On that note I wasn't in a happy mood to run out of fuel in the CBD motorway at night, with a full tank of gas behind me being ignored. <_<



The American style trucks with twin fuel tanks share similar issues at time for a variety of reasons too. You wouldn't think that with 300 odd litres either side you'd end up with air locks or blockages but it happens occasionally....
The guy in pic is planning a desert crossing so kind a makes sense, does look vulnerable though... Why I got an Acerbis for DR the $500 is worth it not to much about roadside securing containers and cleaning dust of everything before filling, oh and being in a sheltered non windy or rainy place to top up.

R650R
17th July 2016, 20:07
Was in Hamilton yesterday so had quick back to back compare of KTM vs Honda. The 1190 looks like a huge beast. A brand new KTM690 on floor looked SO SO GOOD.... Round the corner had a sit on an AT at Honda... Seems an appealing package.....