Kiwibiker on TV1 SCU?

[400sm]

Looks like a familiar bike and story on TV1 at the mo.

[buggerit]

Looks like next weeks will feature a bike too, no hidden agendas though:shifty:

[JimO]

saw the show whats the story?

[400sm]

saw the show whats the story?

Judging by the "line" she took, it could be 2 KBers.

[nodrog]

My bike must be a "use 98 unleaded".

cos its written on the tank.

[Katman]

My bike must be a "use 98 unleaded".

cos its written on the tank.

Sounds Chinese.

[Mom]

Sorry, I was in the wrong gear approaching that corner. All of a sudden I was on the wrong side of the road. I wonder what I will do wrong next week?

[Reckless]

Sorry, I was in the wrong gear approaching that corner. All of a sudden I was on the wrong side of the road. I wonder what I will do wrong next week?

I dunno MOM?
IF the stand did come down? Maybe the theory was discounted to soon, maybe it has some merit.
I can see a rider coming up to a corner the stand digging in and it making the rider take evasive action forcing them on the other side of the road.
Although the gouge in the road looked far to long for that even if it did touch, wouldn't it have fold back up.
I must admit to doing it a couple times on the Z1R over the years (which doesn't have a cut out switch) and its just folded back up under.

Looks like the prang was 2012 wasnt that the date on the rego?

They blamed it on the rider panicking, but it was not much of a corner?
Mind you no rider I know takes a 55k at 55k thats for sure, so they will always blame it on speed???
It left me thinking there was more to it even if the rider was quite inexperienced.
Dunno the bike was a mess, didnt like the dents in the rider/seat end of the tank that's for sure.

[JimO]

I must admit to doing it a couple times on the Z1R over the years (which doesn't have a cut out switch) and its just folded back up under.


My favourite bike

[The End]

The only thing that concerns me is it says its a CB, with this coming across as a Hornet

Wow this show is a joke they look for any excuse to pin it on the rider.

As a HORNET owner, they are referred to as a HORNET, CB919 or CB900F - all are interchangeable.

Scary stuff though, bike is very similar to my own.

[skippa1]

Wow this show is a joke they look for any excuse to pin it on the rider.

As a HORNET owner, they are referred to as a HORNET, CB919 or CB900F - all are interchangeable.

Scary stuff though, bike is very similar to my own.
You know theyre all pretty much the same aye.....kawasaki, suzuki, ducati, harley, honda, moto guzzi, theyve got two wheels, a tank, a seating arrangement etc.....biggest difference is the one controlling all the levers and switches and foot controls and twisty bits.....
that bit is the bit that gets a bike into trouble

[Grubber]

Had a Yamaha XJ650 some years ago.
Sidestand was left down and the next left hander it wasn't about to flick back up in a hurry.
It dug in and stayed dug in and therefore i was having to head for wrong side of the road to cut some speed off.
Run out of time to do that before a car came and i hit the back half of it. Fortunately i came out of that ok but it does show you how easy it can be done.
These days of coarse they won't start if it's down. Thanks God for that!

[nerrrd]

Didn't see the whole thing, but wasn't there some talk of the side stand dropping and the switch causing the engine to cut out mid corner? That would seriously screw up any line you might be taking (and seems like a serious design flaw). Apologies if I got that wrong.

[The End]

Didn't see the whole thing, but wasn't there some talk of the side stand dropping and the switch causing the engine to cut out mid corner? That would seriously screw up any line you might be taking (and seems like a serious design flaw). Apologies if I got that wrong.

My only issue with this theory was wouldn't the forward momentum of the motorcycle push the side stand back up? Even if the spring on the stand caused the stand to drop down, it should just freely drag along the road rather than lock in a forward facing position and dig in?

[TheDemonLord]

Was sad to watch - made sadder by it seemed that the crash was a classic case panic front brake, run wide on the corner, and then target fixation

[The End]

Was sad to watch - made sadder by it seemed that the crash was a classic case panic front brake, run wide on the corner, and then target fixation

I think the car driver milked it a bit towards the end; she (and the narrator) was aggressive about why the rider wasn't doing the recommended 55 km/h speed limit for the corner, despite it otherwise being a higher speed limit. We all know we (and car drivers too) ride/drive faster than the recommended speed limit for corners as they have a very low speed recommendation anyway.

IMO, if the driver is affected to the point of having mental breakdowns on the side of the road when driving, she should NOT be driving until she has overcome those mental health issues. I am not discrediting her pain (physical or emotional) but rather stating that in that condition, she is likely to cause an accident through lack of attention to the road at present.

I've seen two episodes of this show, and while I appreciate the fact-finding mentality of the investigators/officers, they seem to try everything they can to find evidence to put it on the rider - ie: last week a bloke on a 400cc bike in 5th gear in a 50km/h zone - "He must have been speeding to be in 5th gear" or tonight the investigators going on about the wrong registration/name for the bike.

[Katman]

I see Gremlin's done his little cleaning mission.

[TheDemonLord]

I think the car driver milked it a bit towards the end; she (and the narrator) was aggressive about why the rider wasn't doing the recommended 55 km/h speed limit for the corner, despite it otherwise being a higher speed limit. We all know we (and car drivers too) ride/drive faster than the recommended speed limit for corners as they have a very low speed recommendation anyway.

IMO, if the driver is affected to the point of having mental breakdowns on the side of the road when driving, she should NOT be driving until she has overcome those mental health issues. I am not discrediting her pain (physical or emotional) but rather stating that in that condition, she is likely to cause an accident through lack of attention to the road at present.

I've seen two episodes of this show, and while I appreciate the fact-finding mentality of the investigators/officers, they seem to try everything they can to find evidence to put it on the rider - ie: last week a bloke on a 400cc bike in 5th gear in a 50km/h zone - "He must have been speeding to be in 5th gear" or tonight the investigators going on about the wrong registration/name for the bike.

I agree on many of those points.

[Zedder]

I see Gremlin's done his little cleaning mission.

Which brings me to the question on grounds for "cleaning". What are the criteria these days? Apart from the off topic one of course.

[Katman]

Which brings me to the question on grounds for "cleaning". What are the criteria these days?

It all depends what mood Gremlin is in.

And interestingly enough, the posts that have gone seem to have completely vanished. Not even PDed.

[Maha]

My only issue with this theory was wouldn't the forward momentum of the motorcycle push the side stand back up? Even if the spring on the stand caused the stand to drop down, it should just freely drag along the road rather than lock in a forward facing position and dig in?

Agree, would only dig in if it miraculously sprung forward/locked and thus, stalling the motor.....it could happen :rolleyes:

The bike hit the car upright and was on the wrong side of the road, it was an accident and the rider/bike was at fault, not the car/driver.

NB: No Sharry (Sharon) I was not there, but the SCU was.
NBB: Rider plead guilty to careless driving.

[Zedder]

It all depends what mood Gremlin is in.

And interestingly enough, the posts that have gone seem to have completely vanished. Not even PDed.


Yep, it appears to be mood centered. And not just for Gremlin. Although, some Mods appear to be stricter on personal abuse etc than others.

[Katman]

The sidestand theory seemed like nothing more than an exercise in blame shifting.

Perhaps nzspokes can explain whether he really believed his theory or not.

[caspernz]

The way the program sums up the sequence of events it's hard to argue with the police summation of rider error.

[nodrog]

I like the way a brand-new bmw handles like 20 year old honda.

[sidecar bob]

I think the car driver milked it a bit towards the end; she (and the narrator) was aggressive about why the rider wasn't doing the recommended 55 km/h speed limit for the corner, despite it otherwise being a higher speed limit. We all know we (and car drivers too) ride/drive faster than the recommended speed limit for corners as they have a very low speed recommendation anyway.

IMO, if the driver is affected to the point of having mental breakdowns on the side of the road when driving, she should NOT be driving until she has overcome those mental health issues. I am not discrediting her pain (physical or emotional) but rather stating that in that condition, she is likely to cause an accident through lack of attention to the road at present.

I've seen two episodes of this show, and while I appreciate the fact-finding mentality of the investigators/officers, they seem to try everything they can to find evidence to put it on the rider - ie: last week a bloke on a 400cc bike in 5th gear in a 50km/h zone - "He must have been speeding to be in 5th gear" or tonight the investigators going on about the wrong registration/name for the bike.

Typical Maori milking the fake trauma & being wronged by a pakeha for all its worth. Im sure sure a cash hand out from ACC or from any other hole in the govt purse will make it all better.

[sidecar bob]

I like the way a brand-new bmw handles like 20 year old honda.

Its a one size fits all system. Their skid to stop calculations are also a based on fixed maths. Apparently all tyres have tha same grip.
Id hate to sound presumptuous, but within five minutes of the programme starting I had worked out what had happened & why.

[buggerit]

Ive ridden that road a fair bit, and my view of that corner is, travelling in the direction the car was, there is nothing unusual about the
corner, but travelling in the direction the bike was there is a combination of factors at play.
1. The opposite side of the road in the corner has a wide sealed area outside of the opposite lane that tends to give u the feeling that
the vanishing point is further away than it actually is, perhaps the downhill approach compounds the allusion?
2. the inside of the corner radius curves about right for u to believe the misconception of the vanishing point, then just squares off sharply
inline with the next straight.

my 2 cents

[nodrog]

Typical Maori milking the fake trauma & being wronged by a pakeha for all its worth. Im sure sure a cash hand out from ACC or from any other hole in the govt purse will make it all better.

The politically correct term is Taniwha Tax.


Its a one size fits all system. Their skid to stop calculations are also a based on fixed maths. Apparently all tyres have tha same grip.

Sweet I'll inform the superbike riders. They should save some money, and Maybe it will stop them asking for 10 Warmup laps at the nationals.

[Katman]

Id hate to sound presumptuous, but within five minutes of the programme starting I had worked out what had happened & why.

Now if I'd said that......

:rolleyes:

[nodrog]

Re watched the programme, can clearly identify who the riders partner is (if you know him) SCU summary is that it was rider era and the rider pled guilty to careless driving causing injury, disqualified for 6 months and ordered to pay $735 compensation.

was it the guy Andy off little Britain?

[Reckless]

Had a Yamaha XJ650 some years ago.
Sidestand was left down and the next left hander it wasn't about to flick back up in a hurry.
It dug in and stayed dug in and therefore i was having to head for wrong side of the road to cut some speed off.
Run out of time to do that before a car came and i hit the back half of it. Fortunately i came out of that ok but it does show you how easy it can be done.
These days of coarse they won't start if it's down. Thanks God for that!

Well that certainly backs up the side stand theory? Cant quite see how, but if it happened, it happened.
If she was caught in that scenario with the unfortunate timing of a car coming towards her and unable to lean to the left, that sucks.
Might have been a better option to hit the bank (or put the stand up) but hindsight is 20/20 aye.
I've had a couple of prangs over the years and if I woulda, shoulda, coulda I prob wouldnt have had some of them either LOL.

The moari comments on this thread are uncalled for I do agree she milked it a bit. Although the editing didnt help to create TV drama.


Re watched the programme, can clearly identify who the riders partner is (if you know him) SCU summary is that it was rider era and the rider pled guilty to careless driving causing injury, disqualified for 6 months and ordered to pay $735 compensation.

Now that would really suck after all the pain and recovery shes gone through if the above is correct?

[sidecar bob]

The politically correct term is Taniwha Tax.



Sweet I'll inform the superbike riders. They should save some money, and Maybe it will stop them asking for 10 Warmup laps at the nationals.

I told your cop mate Tim that if thats the case he should Email the McLaren F1 team & tell them ive got some old 155 13's off a Hillman Avenger they could use to save a few bucks, because apparently all tyres have the same grip.

[Mom]

Now that would really suck after all the pain and recovery shes gone through if the above is correct?

One of my "other" children lost control of her car in the Dome Valley on one of the most notorious corners. Smashed through the armco and rolled off the road. Totally her fault, speed, inexperience etc. She luckily was not badly injured but, she was also charged with careless driving causing injury. Disqualification and a large fine. Cost her dearly. Could not get insurance cover for many years (not even 3rd party). It is something of a standard charge even if no other vehicles are involved.

Tough charge to accept at any time.

[Reckless]

One of my "other" children lost control of her car in the Dome Valley on one of the most notorious corners. Smashed through the armco and rolled off the road. Totally her fault, speed, inexperience etc. She luckily was not badly injured but, she was also charged with careless driving causing injury. Disqualification and a large fine. Cost her dearly. Could not get insurance cover for many years (not even 3rd party). It is something of a standard charge even if no other vehicles are involved.

Tough charge to accept at any time.

My sisters husband ran off the road early one morning and rolled the 4x4. No other car involved, no speed, no drink.
Concentration or inattention he admits. Luckily their 4 kids where not in the car :)
They are still recovering a year later. She still cant drive because of her back and they took his licence of him for 6 months and a biggish fine on a similar charge leaving them car-less. As if he meant to hurt his missus FFS. Really hard get to their medical appointments etc.
In saying that they are still forging ahead as they can but Talk about the traffic charges causing extra undue hardship to the family?
Sometimes there is such a thing as an accident (even if it was his fault) and the ongoing consequences of such are punishment enough I reckon.

[FROSTY]

Its a one size fits all system. Their skid to stop calculations are also a based on fixed maths. Apparently all tyres have tha same grip.
Id hate to sound presumptuous, but within five minutes of the programme starting I had worked out what had happened & why.
Holey cow it took you THAT LONG???
I saw it was a hornet 250,saw the situation and thought. Went a bit wide-target fixated on the car - bang.
Its exactly what ride instructors go on and on and on about with newer riders.
Given the rider is now ok I'd be interested to find out their ride experience level at the time of accident.

The "rider has two bikes" thing was IMO a red herring.-Hornet/cb250 in my mind are basicly the same thing.
The comment that the stand fell down just doesn't wash. even springless the stand wont rotate to the forward/locked position on a 250 hornet.
Re BMW VS 250 hornet. I bet any amount of money a lil lightweight 250 hornet will be a tonne easier to get around a 50/km/h corner than a big ol bimmer.

[TheDemonLord]

The comment that the stand fell down just doesn't wash. even springless the stand wont rotate to the forward/locked position on a 250 hornet.
Re BMW VS 250 hornet. I bet any amount of money a lil lightweight 250 hornet will be a tonne easier to get around a 50/km/h corner than a big ol bimmer.

Especially since Hornet take big bike grippy and expensive tyres

[FROSTY]

Had a Yamaha XJ650 some years ago.
Sidestand was left down and the next left hander it wasn't about to flick back up in a hurry.
It dug in and stayed dug in and therefore i was having to head for wrong side of the road to cut some speed off.
Run out of time to do that before a car came and i hit the back half of it. Fortunately i came out of that ok but it does show you how easy it can be done.
These days of coarse they won't start if it's down. Thanks God for that!
mate--BIG difference between stand left down and locked-ie against the front stop and springs pulling it into place and stand "falling down" whilst riding. even if the springs popped off. The rider was going forwards at 70km/h. the stand would be dragging backwards.
The other side of the stand down thing is the cut out doesn't work with a stand dragging--only near to properly down
also the rider could have gone back to correct side of the road with no power.

[400sm]

It just goes to show that a relatively small rider error can have grave consequences.

If there were no vehicle coming towards her, the rider would have got away with it.
Unfortunately there was a "cager" (KBer talk for car+driver) on the road that caused the accident! (according to some posts on here)

Lucky it was not a truck!

The side-stand issue is a fantasy. (well covered by previous posters)

The "vanishing point" and "line" dogma that are espoused by the "KB intelligentsia" are flawed and could well have contributed to this incident.
(I am on the record criticizing these theories, in previous years)
I am sure the rider in question would have been a True Believer.


So to sum up, in KB style:

Clearly the Maori Cager is to blame.
The Pommy police are wrong.
The Judge is wrong and panders to minorities.
TV1 is biased against motorcycles.
KB Riders are The Shit.

;-)

[Banditbandit]

My only issue with this theory was wouldn't the forward momentum of the motorcycle push the side stand back up? Even if the spring on the stand caused the stand to drop down, it should just freely drag along the road rather than lock in a forward facing position and dig in?


Agree, would only dig in if it miraculously sprung forward/locked and thus, stalling the motor.....it could happen :rolleyes:



Surprisingly enough - this is not the case.

I had a bike come around, what was for them a left hand corner, clearly not handling the corner at all. I pulled the car well left, and I could see the side-stand was down, but the bike still went wide, swiped the front right panel and slide all the way along the driver side of the car - it was an MG B - and the wheel spinners messed up the bike's engine cases something shocking. Lucky it was a big IL4 or the spinners would have messed up the rider's leg too.

Now, this was on an older bike (happened late 80s) without a side-stand cutout switch.

So, no. The forward momentum of a bike will not necessarily push the side-stand up. If you think about the arc the stand travels through to retract, then the widest point of the arc it needs to travel to retract will be below the level of the road surface. The road surface itself stops the stand retracting

As for it dropping down and cutting the engine ?? No - that would seem extremely unlikely .. it wold have an incredibly ineffectual spring, which would not allow it to retract fully in the first place. It would be visibly down and unsafe to ride the bike ..

Dropping down and locking into place as above? No chance. It would have to be pushed forward, beyond the botom of the arc. A spring too weak to hold the stand up would be too weak to push it into forward lock position.

[Swoop]

Id hate to sound presumptuous, but within five minutes of the programme starting I had worked out what had happened & why.

The Butler, in the library, with the candlestick holder?

[Reckless]

Dropping down and locking into place as above? No chance. It would have to be pushed forward, beyond the botom of the arc. A spring too weak to hold the stand up would be too weak to push it into forward lock position.

Couple different posts now supporting the Stand not folding back up even at 70k or more!
So lets run with it Just like SCU have with their theory??

The stand spring breaks or falls off.
Side stand is hanging down on the left
The rider brakes for the 55k corner and G forces pivot the stand to a forward position (enough to cause a problem)
Rider dumps the bike over onto the corner
Enough cornering force is applied to prevent the stand rotating over the higher axis required to retract it (as evidenced by rider posts here)
Road is there by gouged until said rider lifts the angle and heads for the other side of the road.
Then I'm afraid it is target fixation and panic.

But the cause of the accident is vehicle failure not rider error and therefore fines and suspension of licence should not have been laid.

The above entirely possible given the evidence on the road and logic applied during the SCU program to their scenario.

What say you???

[Katman]

What say you???

I say bullshit.

[nodrog]

I say bullshit.

A side stand just bounces merrily along the road when the spring breaks.

And it certainly wouldn't have enough weight behind it to gouge a massive groove in the road.

[Mike.Gayner]

A side stand just bounces merrily along the road when the spring breaks.

No side stand hangs low enough to bounce with the bike is upright.

[nodrog]

No side stand hangs low enough to bounce with the bike is upright.

How do you corner upright?

[TheDemonLord]

How do you corner upright?

Magic and Faustian pacts.

[Mom]

There are a few of us that obviously know who the rider involved in this accident is. Last night we saw a TV program that detailed the SCU investigation into this.

For me, I am glad this rider was not killed. I know her, but have had no contact with her for years, apart from when we both attended a final good bye to a friend who died recently while riding her bike. Life is short people.

Can we not just simply accept the SCU's findings and move on? I am certain the rider, and her partner have been trying to do just that since the accident happened.

It is obvious mistakes were made. What the fuck can be achieved with this stupid thread other than dragging up shit the people involved need to say goodbye to. I am quite certain that this TV program will have been weighing heavily on them.

It has screened.

It is done.

Move on people, this is a non topic.

[FJRider]

How do you corner upright?

ONCE (thank fuck) on the FJ ... between Outram and Middlemarch ... (Google Maps if you do not know where area this is) there is a series of very large hills (and very prone to strong gusting wind) ... and on one occasion ... some corners required leaning to the RIGHT on a left hand corner.

Your question indicate your definite lack of REAL experience ... I wonder how you cope ... ??? :whistle:

[Madness]

I think the car driver milked it a bit towards the end

I'd like to see how you react to being seriously injured & hospitalised by the actions of another road user. I don't think she was milking it at all and I also don't think she's the one who should be seriously looking at their ability to operate a motor vehicle safely.

I wonder if the rider was at the time trying to keep up with her "highly experienced" partner and riding beyond her abilities.

[nodrog]

....Outram and Middlemarch ... ....

they sound like some freaky gay sex moves you've got going on.


... I wonder how you cope ... ??? :whistle:

Alcohol.

[Katman]

I wonder if the rider was at the time trying to keep up with her "highly experienced" partner and riding beyond her abilities.

:sherlock:

[Mom]

I wonder if the rider was at the time trying to keep up with her "highly experienced" partner and riding beyond her abilities.

I think it has been established the rider made a mistake. She paid a huge price for it. There by the Grace of God go I.

[FROSTY]

Re the whole sidestand thing.
Racing at Nelson street races one year I ended up in the all in race at end of day.
next to me was a tard complete with sidestand still fitted and rubber bands holding stand up.
Sure enough rubber bands came off early on and the guy did the whole race with side stand banging up n down on the road.
I like many here thought its gonna go right down and he's gonna spear into the crowd.
Never did but it made dan sure one rider was too scared to pass him

[FJRider]

they sound like some freaky gay sex moves you've got going on.

Freaky (at the time) yes ... :yes: ... but if I got it wrong ... I definitely would have been fucked ... :shutup:


Alcohol.

The key to understanding your posts then ... :shifty:

[Madness]

She paid a huge price for it.

So did Victoria the car driver. The episode was quite a powerful reminder that despite often feeling that it's only our own life we risk when we ride, that's actually far from the truth.

[FROSTY]

ONCE (thank fuck) on the FJ ... between Outram and Middlemarch ... (Google Maps if you do not know where area this is) there is a series of very large hills (and very prone to strong gusting wind) ... and on one occasion ... some corners required leaning to the RIGHT on a left hand corner.
Your question indicate your definite lack of REAL experience ... I wonder how you cope ... ??? :whistle:
That's why (nost so) baby bikie still calls the rimatuka's the "yukkie tukkas"
gusts of wind blowing us into the clay banks

[FJRider]

That's why (nost so) baby bikie still calls the rimatuka's the "yukkie tukkas"
gusts of wind blowing us into the clay banks

I'll avoid that area for a while longer then .. :innocent:

[nodrog]

So did Victoria the car driver. The episode was quite a powerful reminder that despite often feeling that it's only our own life we risk when we ride, that's actually far from the truth.

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya

[Madness]

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya

Want a root?

[PrincessBandit]

I think it has been established the rider made a mistake. She paid a huge price for it. There by the Grace of God go I.

I agree with this. I didn't see the programme but am not surprised that it has proven to be a hot topic of debate here.
How many of us here, myself included, have had at least one close shave or an 'oooohhhhh shiiiiiiit!!!' moment but escaped without injury or worse?

It is really difficult to have a discussion when someone known (presumably) is at the centre of it, but if people can keep the 'personal' out and stick to hows/whys/nuts/bolts then maybe something positive can come out of the thread.

Btw, I have not been responsible for any of the moderation on this thread, but not too surprised that it appears to have been needed...

[FJRider]

... There by the Grace of God go I.

A good friend of mine made a small and easily overlooked error whilst riding ... which became the very factor in a series of events in the sequence of errors (not all HIS) ... that killed him.

There but for the grace of (our) God ... go ALL of us ...

[Madness]

rider era

Error?


pled guilty

Plead?


$735 compensation.

I wonder if she's spent it all yet.

[Mom]

There but for the grace of (our) God ... go ALL of us ...

I made a HUGE mistake a few years ago. I was the one that saw the whites of the car drivers eyes. Thank God he had good reactions.

This was not an innocent mistake either, I did it on PURPOSE! I am no risk taker generally, in fact most would describe me as a total, pathetic nana. Meh! I own it, it is my ride after all.

Boy, did I fuck up. I went cold, and thought about my kids, my lovely man...

There by the Grace of God go I!

[nodrog]

Want a root?

well duh!


____________

[T.W.R]

Went a bit wide-target fixated on the car - bang.
Its exactly what ride instructors go on and on and on about with newer riders.




target fixation and panic.



All relative to where the car was on the road when the rider saw it :yes:

And as the two bystanders said to the driver of the car "you did everything to avoid it" ..... so where exactly was the car in relation to the center line ?? because it wasn't that far off the road at the impact point & the strike point was at the very outer R/H edge of the car :rolleyes: car well over the center line; rider sees this panics & B-lines it straight at the car :pinch:

The sidestand theory is a crock.... :lol: a goldwing with the stand dragging wouldn't make a continuous gouge that long at speed let-alone a relative light weight bike....it'd be series of small strike points :wacko:

[FJRider]

I made a HUGE ...



Well said ... many would (loudly) proclaim it was an accident and change the subject ... or (just as) loudly blame somebody else.

I have done similar to you on more occaisions than is good.

[Katman]

The sidestand theory is a crock.... :lol: a goldwing with the stand dragging wouldn't make a continuous gouge that long at speed let-alone a relative light weight bike....it'd be series of small strike points :wacko:

And that's the bit that gets me more than anything else.

To search that hard, in the vain hope of finding something to pass the blame onto, is a sad indictment of a side of motorcycling that is sadly all too prevelant.

[FJRider]

Error?

Learner rider era .. ?? :innocent:


Plead?

Pled being the past tense of plead ... :innocent:

[JimO]

what about the comment by the cops that the bike rego was wrong (we know why now) so it may have been illegally imported and not suitable for our roads!!!

[Madness]

...it may have been illegally imported and not suitable for our roads!!!

Did a cop say that or was it just the narrator?

[400sm]

Pleaded, is the correct English.

Too much TV watching.....

[Madness]

Too much TV watching.....

They get TV in Mangakino?

[nodrog]

what about the comment by the cops that the bike rego was wrong (we know why now) so it may have been illegally imported and not suitable for our roads!!!

it was a LHD.

[400sm]

They get TV in Mangakino?

Yeah, they just run a lead from the hydro dam.

[FROSTY]

All relative to where the car was on the road when the rider saw it :yes:

And as the two bystanders said to the driver of the car "you did everything to avoid it" ..... so where exactly was the car in relation to the center line ?? because it wasn't that far off the road at the impact point & the strike point was at the very outer R/H edge of the car :rolleyes: car well over the center line; rider sees this panics & B-lines it straight at the car :pinch:
mate--dunno what you were looking at but the car was in the gravel on the far left of the road. Literally there was no more left to go unless they went into the ditch.
Impact point was clearly 2-2.5m inside the cars lane.

[sidecar bob]

what about the comment by the cops that the bike rego was wrong (we know why now) so it may have been illegally imported and not suitable for our roads!!!


Yeah, do you suppose it was made for a parallel universe where bikes lean the other way?
How fucked was that? I'm lost for examples of how much more fucked their comments & investigations could be. It didn't have a blowout because there weren't tyre pieces spread up the road prior to impact. For fucks sake, it's not a fully laden B Train. I doubt those useless cunts couldn't figure out which way toilet paper unrolls.
I have been employed by the police for exactly that kind of work, I remember the Traffic Sargent at the time commenting that he had never seen such a thorough & well explained report on a damaged bike. I think I understand why now.

[Katman]

Is this a footpeg?

[Madness]

Is this a footpeg?

CIB material that one.

[scumdog]

Well that certainly backs up the side stand theory? Cant quite see how, but if it happened, it happened.
If she was caught in that scenario with the unfortunate timing of a car coming towards her and unable to lean to the left, that sucks.


I find it hard to believe that was the side-stand causing the crash unless she rode off with it still down - and that bend was the first left-hand bend she rode around.

[T.W.R]

mate--dunno what you were looking at but the car was in the gravel on the far left of the road. Literally there was no more left to go unless they went into the ditch.
Impact point was clearly 2-2.5m inside the cars lane.

:facepalm: one lane on a country road is just over 3m wide (from center line to fog line) and roughly only 1/3 of the Maxima was in the grass and it wasn't duly out of alignment with it's direction of travel so the driver didn't swerve SFA to try avoiding the impact relative to the cars position if it was perfectly within it's lane....and the verge wasn't a ditch.
The impact point of the two punched the bike in between the wheel & engine so 12" further right & the bike would have bounced along the side of the car.
So if the car was perfectly within its lane and the driver knew impact was imminent then the "done everything possible to avoid" scenario would have put the car over the verge, through the fence into the paddock either on it's side or roof other than where it was & the bike being punched back & over into the other lane ;)

[neels]

:facepalm: one lane on a country road is just over 3m wide (from center line to fog line) and roughly only 1/3 of the Maxima was in the grass and it wasn't duly out of alignment with it's direction of travel so the driver didn't swerve SFA to try avoiding the impact relative to the cars position if it was perfectly within it's lane....and the verge wasn't a ditch.
The impact point of the two punched the bike in between the wheel & engine so 12" further right & the bike would have bounced along the side of the car.
So if the car was perfectly within its lane and the driver knew impact was imminent then the "done everything possible to avoid" scenario would have put the car over the verge, through the fence into the paddock either on it's side or roof other than where it was & the bike being punched back & over into the other lane ;)
I was in a similar situation a while back, pulled over as far as I thought I could to avoid an accident and still didn't, then get out and realise there was more I could have done to get out of the way of the fuckwit that locked everything up and plowed into me. But I possibly had the same thought process, better to stay on the road and take the chance than chuck it off the side, with the worst case being that the person coming the other way just carries on and leaves you with a single vehicle accident to explain.

Interesting that the last 2 SCU episodes have been rider fucked up and crashed, waiting for the third installment to see if the pattern continues, although as above most people have had that moment when they realise it's just lucky there wasn't someone else there when they got it wrong.

Also waiting for the cranking up of ACC levies with the TV watching public suitably brainwashed to reject any complaint from motorcyclists.

[spanner spinner]

I find it hard to believe that was the side-stand causing the crash unless she rode off with it still down - and that bend was the first left-hand bend she rode around.

never going to happen on a modern bike side stand cut out switch stops you even riding off.

[FJRider]

never going to happen on a modern bike side stand cut out switch stops you even riding off.

They can easily be disabled ... intentionally or "Otherwise" ...

[Banditbandit]

Couple different posts now supporting the Stand not folding back up even at 70k or more!
So lets run with it Just like SCU have with their theory??

The stand spring breaks or falls off.
Side stand is hanging down on the left
The rider brakes for the 55k corner and G forces pivot the stand to a forward position (enough to cause a problem)
Rider dumps the bike over onto the corner
Enough cornering force is applied to prevent the stand rotating over the higher axis required to retract it (as evidenced by rider posts here)
Road is there by gouged until said rider lifts the angle and heads for the other side of the road.
Then I'm afraid it is target fixation and panic.

But the cause of the accident is vehicle failure not rider error and therefore fines and suspension of licence should not have been laid.

The above entirely possible given the evidence on the road and logic applied during the SCU program to their scenario.

What say you???

Yes - I think the scenario is entirely possible - except for gouging the road. From what I have seen the side stand runs along the road surface preventing the bike cornering properly - holding it up. It might or might not leave a mark on the road - I'd assume it would, I remember sparks coming from the side-stand when the bike hit me.

The problem is that a side-stand that is down prevents a bike achieving the lean angle the rider expects to take a left-hand corner at - one that matches the speed of the bike into the corner - it holds the bike up, widening the arc of the corner and taking the bike across the other side of the road.


A side stand just bounces merrily along the road when the spring breaks.

And it certainly wouldn't have enough weight behind it to gouge a massive groove in the road.


No side stand hangs low enough to bounce with the bike is upright.

Yes. It would take the momentum of the swinging stand flipping forward as the bike was under brakes - achieving the fully forward locked position as the bike was tipped into a corner. A possible scenario - and what many people would think is a fluke .. and no - it's unlikely to gouge the road but is likely to leave a mark.

[nodrog]

Yes - I think the scenario is entirely possible - except for gouging the road. From what I have seen the side stand runs along the road surface preventing the bike cornering properly - holding it up. It might or might not leave a mark on the road - I'd assume it would, I remember sparks coming from the side-stand when the bike hit me.

The problem is that a side-stand that is down prevents a bike achieving the lean angle the rider expects to take a left-hand corner at - one that matches the speed of the bike into the corner - it holds the bike up, widening the arc of the corner and taking the bike across the other side of the road.





Yes. It would take the momentum of the swinging stand flipping forward as the bike was under brakes - achieving the fully forward locked position as the bike was tipped into a corner. A possible scenario - and what many people would think is a fluke .. and no - it's unlikely to gouge the road but is likely to leave a mark.
valentino rossi would be amazed at how hard you would be braking to accelerate a mass of less than 1/4 a kilogram that it has enough force to somehow become "locked forward".

Whats even more amazing is how, under this extreme braking event, is how the sidestand managed to miss the ground on its way to swinging forward, whilst the forks are compressed.

[Banditbandit]

valentino rossi would be amazed at how hard you would be braking to accelerate a mass of less than 1/4 a kilogram that it has enough force to somehow become "locked forward".

Whats even more amazing is how, under this extreme braking event, is how the sidestand managed to miss the ground on its way to swinging forward, whilst the forks are compressed.

Yes .. all that - it would be regarded as a fluke ..

[nodrog]

Yes .. all that - it would be regarded as a fluke ..

Even a fluke cant happen if its physically impossible.

[PrincessBandit]

never going to happen on a modern bike side stand cut out switch stops you even riding off.

Haha, I guess that reinforces that the GN (my first wee bike) isn't modern! (I managed to ride off from the school car park once with the side stand down and nearly arsed off in front of a group of students as I turned my first corner :Oops: Never happened again...

[Banditbandit]

Even a fluke cant happen if its physically impossible.

I'm not sure it is physically impossible - IF the side-stand spring is broken

There's a lot of IFs in the scenario .. I'm pretty doubtful that would happen ..

[400sm]

So, have we managed to absolve the biker of all blame yet.......

The side-stand is looking like a winner at the mo.

Have we considered that there may have been a quake that moved the road surface over, by 2 metres, right at that moment.

This idea is a highly likely scenario, in Kiwibiker hyperspace.

[PrincessBandit]

So, have we managed to absolve the biker of all blame yet.......

.

I don't know. You seem to think you're running this show, so what's your answer to your own question?

[400sm]

I don't know. You seem to think you're running this show, so what's your answer to your own question?

It's humbling to see you know your place.

The little fuzzed-out bald man on TV actually said...." Gee Officer, I think my partner fucked up :pinch: "

[awa355]

Haha, I guess that reinforces that the GN (my first wee bike) isn't modern! (I managed to ride off from the school car park once with the side stand down and nearly arsed off in front of a group of students as I turned my first corner :Oops: Never happened again...

That has happened to almost every rider back in their day. Never when no one is around. The other novice fault is riding off while looking to see who's watching you and nearly clipping the car you pulled out in front of. Usually happens outside High schools during lunchtimes and when school is out. :crazy::crazy: and yes, they are watching:killingme

[Banditbandit]

So, have we managed to absolve the biker of all blame yet.......



Of course not - this is KBer ... your expectations are too high ..

[nodrog]

Listen *SAM, I have been in Rob's presence enough times now to state confidently that, he certainly wouldn't speak like that of Sharon.


*Sad Little Man.

Your acronyms need work bro.

[Katman]

Your acronyms need work bro.

Why stop at acronyms?

[98tls]

That has happened to almost every rider back in their day. Never when no one is around. The other novice fault is riding off while looking to see who's watching you and nearly clipping the car you pulled out in front of. Usually happens outside High schools during lunchtimes and when school is out. :crazy::crazy: and yes, they are watching:killingme

Had a sidestand moment many moons ago on the Rimituka (spelling?) hill,had stopped for a feed at the cafe at the top then headed off north at a great rate of knots until when heading into the first lefthander things got outta shape:shit:at first i thought the horrible old Ducati i was riding had seized and was running out of options fast as i was heading directly at a rock face then :woohoo:the thing came right after pulling over and an inspection the flat piece on the end of the sidestand had broken off:laugh:allowing me to get round the corner...:laugh:Oh big shout out to Cagivas quality control,probably saved my life.:confused:

[Madness]

Your acronyms need work bro.

I think Maha just read the words "little" and "bald man" and automatically got a bit flustered.

[400sm]

I have been in Rob's presence enough times now to state confidently that, he certainly wouldn't speak like that of Sharon.

Not quite quick enough on the edit button eh!

I am distressed to see that my irony and sarcasm are wasted on a CS like you.

[MSTRS]

I see that that fucken brainless wanker Tony W is back with a pseudonym. For those that don't know, he was banned for a series of disgusting abusive posts aimed at anyone that told him he was out of line. Some things never change, eh? Once a retard, always a retard.

[yungatart]

It just goes to show that a relatively small rider error can have grave consequences.

If there were no vehicle coming towards her, the rider would have got away with it.
Unfortunately there was a "cager" (KBer talk for car+driver) on the road that caused the accident! (according to some posts on here)

Lucky it was not a truck!

The side-stand issue is a fantasy. (well covered by previous posters)

The "vanishing point" and "line" dogma that are espoused by the "KB intelligentsia" are flawed and could well have contributed to this incident.
(I am on the record criticizing these theories, in previous years)
I am sure the rider in question would have been a True Believer.


So to sum up, in KB style:

Clearly the Maori Cager is to blame.
The Pommy police are wrong.
The Judge is wrong and panders to minorities.
TV1 is biased against motorcycles.
KB Riders are The Shit.

;-)

Yeah, you got one thing right....kb riders are the shit.. well, you speak for yourself. I've seen you ride and I would agree with you, you are a shit rider. Certainly,you are in no position to comment on others' abilities .
You seem to have a personal vendetta against this rider, how awfully grown up of you....silly little man.

[R650R]

Different things affect different people in different ways. Most bikers have grown up with a few whoppsies here and there so its easy to brush off post crash trauma.
But for the average cager who may not necessarily drive a lot to start with it can be a lot for them to deal with. Even when I got hit by a drunk driver in my truck and I was 100% in the right it shook my confidence for ages.
Plus that lady lives out Kaiuaua way which we now is a rural racetrack so she will hear fast bikes all the time.

That show does worry me sometimes and makes me wonder how often those cops actually drive anywhere with some of the bizarre early hypothesis they develop. I hope some of it is down to poor editing by the show producers and the cops trying to give the cameras a soundbite.
The one where they tried to ham up the chance of the bread truck being overweight was laughable and poor producing.

There job is not easy though, living next to a busy t junction I've witnessed and virtually witnessed dozens of crashes. The scene afterwards is not always a true indication of what happened.

That gouge mark looked too long to be a sidestand mark, I reckon it would dig in and flick not drag like that.

It is very interesting to watch though and we can learn several things:

The govts roads are NEVER a factor in the crash especially when examined by agents of the govt.
Rarely can anything on the vehicle be proven as a contributing factor.
One or more of the drivers always screwed up something relatively simple and at or less than the speed limit.

[mossy1200]

The govts roads are NEVER a factor in the crash especially when examined by agents of the govt.
Rarely can anything on the vehicle be proven as a contributing factor.
One or more of the drivers always screwed up something relatively simple and at or less than the speed limit.

They just wont show a crash that the condition of the road surface has caused. Quickest way to get the show cancelled.