Compulsory ABS

[mossy1200]

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/motorcycle-abs-compulsory-from-2016/21856.html

ABS European laws for 2016. Wont be long before its law everywhere.

Maybe some cheap sell out models being sold soon in countries not included to get the stock gone.

[jellywrestler]

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/motorcycle-abs-compulsory-from-2016/21856.html

ABS European laws for 2016. Wont be long before its law everywhere.

Maybe some cheap sell out models being sold soon in countries not included to get the stock gone.

on the flip side abs will be priced cheaper, right now it's an extra so they gouge the price a bit more...

[mossy1200]

Not sure about cruisers/customs. Do many have abs yet?

[Gremlin]

Not sure about cruisers/customs. Do many have abs yet?
I would say quite a few do, including Harleys.

My biggest concern is the last I heard, they wanted mandatory full time ABS, ie, non-switchable. Many with ABS you can control the level of intervention, which is needed in some situations...

It may also see the death of some models in those markets, ie, I don't know if the likes of KLR, DR etc mid range adventure bikes with a long model history, have ABS...

[Ocean1]

It may also see the death of some models in those markets, ie, I don't know if the likes of KLR, DR etc mid range adventure bikes with a long model history, have ABS...

Maybe not quite dead. But it would make any genuine dual purpose machine a bunch less effective off road. And they still can't claim to stop a bike quicker on the road than one without abs for an experienced rider, so any such law would be a reall ass.

[AllanB]

It may also see the death of some models in those markets, ie, I don't know if the likes of KLR, DR etc mid range adventure bikes with a long model history, have ABS...

It would be short sighted if so - think of those bikes - the design, development and tooling set-ups were paid in full ages OK - to add ABS? bit of brake fluff from a existing model and a computer to suit. Cost should be F-all and the marketing knobs can sell it as the 2016 model :-)

[MarkH]

I would say quite a few do, including Harleys.

My biggest concern is the last I heard, they wanted mandatory full time ABS, ie, non-switchable. Many with ABS you can control the level of intervention, which is needed in some situations...

It may also see the death of some models in those markets, ie, I don't know if the likes of KLR, DR etc mid range adventure bikes with a long model history, have ABS...

Non-switchable would be moronic for dual sport or off-road bikes, you really want to be able to disable the ABS on the loose stuff. I think that the KTM 690 has switchable ABS that can be on for both wheels, on for front only or completely off.

[MarkH]

And they still can't claim to stop a bike quicker on the road than one without abs for an experienced rider

That's not my understanding. Can you back that up?
Exactly how many times per second can YOU check the rotation speed of both the front and the back wheel to maintain perfect threshold braking?

Maybe check this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0&feature=related
or this one: http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Features/RideReports/AntiLockBraking.aspx

[Ocean1]

That's not my understanding. Can you back that up?
Exactly how many times per second can YOU check the rotation speed of both the front and the back wheel to maintain perfect threshold braking?

Maybe check this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0&feature=related
or this one: http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Features/RideReports/AntiLockBraking.aspx

Yup, in a dead straight line on clean hot mix I can beat the latest Bosch system on the 1290. Just. Which annoys the fuck out of a friend of mine who had a bit to do with developing it.

Would I beat it mid corner on a variable surface? Probably not, which is why it stays on, albeit in save-my-arse mode.

[mossy1200]

Yup, in a dead straight line on clean hot mix I can beat the latest Bosch system on the 1290. Just. Which annoys the fuck out of a friend of mine who had a bit to do with developing it.

Would I beat it mid corner on a variable surface? Probably not, which is why it stays on, albeit in save-my-arse mode.

Add some panic in an emergency situation and my monies on ABS.

[Ocean1]

Add some panic in an emergency situation and my monies on ABS.

Possibly. Although the whole purpose of practicing this shit is to teach the dude that actually does the important stuff how it's done: your sub-conscious. And once he's properly trained he's less inclined to panic than the coach is.

And while I'm not about to indulge in any live ammo training involving Kenworths just to prove the point I can point to plenty of authorities on how such shit works to be comfortable with it.

[RDJ]

Add some panic in an emergency situation and my monies on ABS.

From what I have read, this is absolutely correct. A prepared experienced rider can often match or exceed ABS performance levels; but an unprepared less-experienced rider never does as well as an ABS system. In a panic stop. I don't think I could match ABS performance in an emergency.

If I could retrofit ABS to my various bikes, I would. But I can't so I won't. :done:

Maybe if there is an aftermarket solution developed that can be universally fitted? because then I would certainly reconsider.

[50Shades]

As we are such a small market, we wont really get much say in the matter. WE will get all of the run out models next year depending on EU regulations on the roll out of this. I'm thinking as a computer based system there will be after market mods to turn it off etc, not sure how the insurance companies will view this if it was off after an accident.

[Latte]

Better start developing and patenting a switchable ABS bypass system that's universal.

[mossy1200]

If you own a dirty bike and don't pay acc tax should you even get a vote? Baaaahahhhha:ar15: Anti fun for everyone. Wheelie control will be the next thing and traction control for cars to stop boy racers. Someone will put speed restrictors on to stop you doing over 300 also.

[rastuscat]

Back in the day if we wanted a troll car with no AM radio we had to pay extra to have it removed.

This will go the same way. ABS will be sold as stock, and you'll have to pay to have it removed.

[BMWGSER]

It only seems like yesterday BMW launched there new K100 with ABS doing on track demonstrations at Manfeild . It was the Castrol 6hour or WSB can't remember age catching up with Me now. Soon You will not be able to buy a bike without ABS or traction control just like cars.
Love My GS with power asstied ABS, 2 finger braking no foot brake. Makes one lazy .

[BMWGSER]

Back in the day if we wanted a troll car with no AM radio we had to pay extra to have it removed.

This will go the same way. ABS will be sold as stock, and you'll have to pay to have it removed.

That's so the Traffic Officers would keep working instead of parking up and listing to the rugby score.
Only a couple of days to go now, enjoy them.

[Big Dog]

It only seems like yesterday BMW launched there new K100 with ABS doing on track demonstrations at Manfeild . It was the Castrol 6hour or WSB can't remember age catching up with Me now. Soon You will not be able to buy a bike without ABS or traction control just like cars.
Love My GS with power asstied ABS, 2 finger braking no foot brake. Makes one lazy .

Sounds like a pretty good reason to not have ABS to me.
I don't like technology that is so intrusive it changes your habits negatively.

How do they expect us to learn skills properly if they make all the tech compulsory?
I don't want everything to stay in the. 1950s but I don't want us to turn into point at shoot riders either.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[RDJ]

I have rented a couple of motorcycles with ABS. The one time I needed it (sudden stop required by an idiot cager driver on a highway in Singapore) it performed very well, better than I am sure I could have, despite regular practice. If a kit were made available and it works, I would retrofit to my current motorcycle fleet as soon as feasible (and it is a bit perturbing to realize that I own seven motorcycles distributed across three continents :-) )!

[gjm]

I'm not keen on the idea of compulsory ABS, but I like my bikes (and cars) to be simple and easy for me to maintain. More electronics, computers and the like can mean more to go wrong, and more cost to fix.

In adverse conditions, ABS can make a difference although if you're on ice or a rally slippery surface, it doesn't help. It's disconcerting to feel the brakes pumping away and not experiencing any loss of speed. (Another bloody Volvo driver pulling out in front of me.)

It certainly has it's place, but teach people how to ride and stop properly, and not rely on electronic aids, first.

[Scubbo]

oh it's coming alright, it's not coming from anywhere else but state funded number bods who only care about a number with the premise of "saving the country money" whilst taking a huge consultation fee to "fix" a problem that isn't there.

[ruaphu]

Meh, ABS should be like adult diapers, ya should never know their there until ya need em ;)

Can't say I was a fan of ABS on bikes until getting me hands on the new model wee strom last year for a week, completely changed my view of it.

Hard case little beastie except for that wheezy feckin muffler. Managed to clocked up over 5hundy K's for the week. I put it through commuting, highway work, gravel roads and a lot of great back road twisty stuff.

I found the ABS by default after pushing things too hard on tight back road twisty stuff. After alot of faffing about with how the ABS interacted with what and how I was doing things in the tight stuff along with the mix of road surfaces found I could use the ABS to good advantage. Found I could push things being overly aggressive in the tight stuff that had the bike squirming about when entering corners. However, I still felt in control, and there be the point of difference. It made for feckin great for shits n giggles. It Really brought the fun factor back into back road scratching without the need for high terminal speeds. Had I been on either my old GSX1200 or CBR and riding in the same manner I dare say I would have come to grief.
However on the highway and commuting different story, the ABS never factored in, even in the wet one morning. On the gravel I simply couldn't tell as I wasn't pushing things along hard enough for the ABS to operate.
All in all I found the ABS was a bonus, not a detractor in riding. At the end of the day if bikes come out with ABS as standard, meh, no issue, ya get used to what ya get used to eh.

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[Scubbo]

abs is fine, it's the pushing bikes out of the market which is BS. its the japanese emissions standard protecting their market share tactic...

goodbye drz/dr/klr/xr/wr/adventure riding on light cheap bikes..........

[ruaphu]

abs is fine, it's the pushing bikes out of the market which is BS.

goodbye drz/dr/klr/xr/wr/adventure riding on light cheap bikes..........

Poohs, yeah ya raise a darn good valid point. Have a few mates with the good ole KLR, they like em a lot, primarily cos they are bang for buck adventure riding and touring.


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[jonnyk5614]

So if it is so awesome, are we going to get ACC discount on ABS bikes?

[spanner spinner]

Back in the day if we wanted a troll car with no AM radio we had to pay extra to have it removed.

This will go the same way. ABS will be sold as stock, and you'll have to pay to have it removed.

It can't be legally removed, if the model of bike is fitted with ABS when it is imported in to NZ it has to stay fitted and functioning. If it is not working or fitted the bike is not WOF legal. The only way out of this is if the ABS control unit is not available or can't be repaired i.e if the bike is a old model and parts are no longer available. In this case you have to produce the proof that parts are no longer available and that you can not get the unit repaired, then pay for a LVV certification.

It is only a matter of time before every bike imported into NZ has ABS as standard as our market is so small that the manufactures are not going to make a separate model for the few bikes sent to NZ. If the rest of the world has ABS we will to.

[98tls]

If this shit carries on much longer you will simply send the bike a message from your wank phone to move the car and go for a ride..oh and turn the camera on so i can watch it later on the widescreen that barely fits in the lounge,then i can post up on the computer about the whole experience.:facepalm:ABS:nya:jesus wont be long before dole bludgers with bikes will get a handout to have it fitted.:yes:

[ruaphu]

So if it is so awesome, are we going to get ACC discount on ABS bikes?

Huh! Yeah right, pigs will fly and hell will freeze over before bikers get anything from ACC................ A part from grief that is.



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[mossy1200]

Wonder how long before scooters require them also.

[Scubbo]

ACC so... ABS compulsory on farm quads too I'll bet along with roll cage and seatbelts.

[mossy1200]

ACC so... ABS compulsory on farm quads too I'll bet along with roll cage and seatbelts.

The new flexi roll bar for quads actually looks good. If I was farming I would get one. I could imagine farmers get caught out not by a lack of skills but more by a random event(hit sheep on slope etc).

http://www.northlandinc.co.nz/open-for-business/case-study-ag-tech-industries

[ruaphu]

Wonder how long before scooters require them also.

Nah that half wit Andy Slack-Rrsted from NZTA will have em all banned by then and the rest of wrapped in bubble wrap.


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[spanner spinner]

ACC so... ABS compulsory on farm quads too I'll bet along with roll cage and seatbelts.

no abs yet but the roll cage and seatbelts are already here Honda call them MUV's http://www.hondamotorbikes.co.nz/motorcycles/farm-2-and-4-wheel/muv-multi-purpose-utility-vehicles/ Yamaha a ROV http://www.yamaha-motor.co.nz/products/atv/rov/all and Kawasaki a side by side http://www.kawasaki.co.nz/catalog/farm-utility/side-by-side. These would be easy to fit abs to as they are in reality a open car.

[sidecar bob]

Sounds like a pretty good reason to not have ABS to me.
I don't like technology that is so intrusive it changes your habits negatively.
.

You do like technology I suspect, what with being on the internets & all.
Would you rather ride a 1913 rudge with hand change & brakes that grip the rim?
I got to the point with my R1200gs where I use the traction control as the limiting factor when exiting corners cranked right over. Just hit the throttle & let the bike figure out what the maximum exit speed is. That's what I paid for.

[Gremlin]

I got to the point with my R1200gs where I use the traction control as the limiting factor when exiting corners cranked right over. Just hit the throttle & let the bike figure out what the maximum exit speed is. That's what I paid for.
Not sure which year you have, but I hope it's LC. I have first hand knowledge that fully enabled ESC on the 2010 hex wakes up far too late to be useful (and can make things worse).

Like most aids, don't rely on them, just count on them helping out when things get really bad.

[McWild]

It seems like there's a big market in Europe for road legal enduro bikes - even here all the KTMs and Husqys and what have you all come with road kit.

How is this going to affect them? Are we going to start seeing "KTM 350exc-f ABS"? Or will they just stop producing them as road legal bikes?

What about home-built vehicles also? Say someone out there built themself a custom trike or chopper or something, would that need an ABS system to get a cert?

[Big Dog]

You do like technology I suspect, what with being on the internets & all.
Would you rather ride a 1913 rudge with hand change & brakes that grip the rim?
I got to the point with my R1200gs where I use the traction control as the limiting factor when exiting corners cranked right over. Just hit the throttle & let the bike figure out what the maximum exit speed is. That's what I paid for.

You twisted that a fair bit.
I like tech. I am a professional geek after all. I a just not that keen on tech that modifies your habits negatively.
Power steering, synch mesh gearboxes, multi pot disk brakes, ecu's, electric start and many others are all very fine developments in their respective beasts.
What I am not keen on is a generation of drivers and riders who cannot safely navigate their way to the corner dairy an back without depending on driver aids.
I have owned and will happily own again sedans with ABS. Not sure I would want it full time in a 4wd. That would require further information for me to make that leap.

I didn't need ABS on the Hayabusa in 9 years including a fair number of emergency events. Probably because I drilled on that bike a lot.
I would be quite happy to have ABS on the CB1300, would not have changed my purchasing decision one jot. It may however have changed how many drills I did first week because I have only ever ridden ABS short distances and wasn't that keen on the sensation.
From what I have read, heard and seen on the idiot box I would probably require a lot more information and a fair amount of test riding before buying something similar to the DR350. But then I like the kick start and the minimalist riding style of the DR350.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Flip]

Maybe not quite dead. But it would make any genuine dual purpose machine a bunch less effective off road. And they still can't claim to stop a bike quicker on the road than one without abs for an experienced rider, so any such law would be a reall ass.

Only in perfect conditions on a race track. Otherwise even std abs rules.

If abs is set up on a race car it is just the ducks.

[baffa]

Ever tried ABS in a 90s car in a track? It's terrifying.
Would be interested to see what it's like on a race car.

I'd rather have switchable traction control than ABS on a bike, but that's just me.

[RDJ]

I'm sure it's true that people who practice emergency stopping (regularly), may be able to outperform ABS in a controlled situation. Speaking only for myself, based on my own comparison and not supervised testing... when I hired ABS-equipped bikes and on the rare occasions when I had to brake urgently, I did better/stopped sooner than on my own familiar bikes without ABS.

There are of course a couple of possible reasons. Maybe I'm just not practising emergency stops enough on my non-ABS equipped bikes. Or maybe ABS gives me the edge in an emergency stop where I can't process information and take the right technical actions with braking, quickly enough.

Based on the available literature/feedback, I suspect the latter.

If available I would retrofit ABS, but it probably isn't an option for my "fleet" :laugh:

[Voltaire]

You do like technology I suspect, what with being on the internets & all.
Would you rather ride a 1913 rudge with hand change & brakes that grip the rim?
I got to the point with my R1200gs where I use the traction control as the limiting factor when exiting corners cranked right over. Just hit the throttle & let the bike figure out what the maximum exit speed is. That's what I paid for.

mmmm 1913 Rudge http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/rudge/images/Rudge-1913-Multi-Combination-HnH-2.jpg:love:

You just don't get whicker like that any more.

My traction control pokes me in the back.

[jonbuoy]

I don´t think ABS mutually excludes learning how to brake on the limit of locking up. ABS won´t get tired, distracted, hungover, ill, fail to read the road surface or panic.