What's the situation on knee dragging?

[kierbren]

Hello, I'm quite new to Nz. I am from England. Do you get the book thrown at you if you knee drag around corners?
I have also read all the forums about lane splitting/filtering. Can someone give me a simple yes and no answer to tell me if it's legal or not. People writing different things. Thanks

[kiwi-on-wheels]

I think everyone would like a clear cut yes / no on splitting...

[FJRider]

Legal only within posted speed limit of the area you were seen .... :pinch:

[FJRider]

I think everyone would like a clear cut yes / no on splitting...

In New Zealand it comes under the rules of overtaking.

Overtake outside those rules and you may be (if seen) issued with an infringement notice.

[george formby]

I escaped the UK a couple of decades ago but still lack legal qualifications. My seat of the pants experience here matches the UK. If you are seen to be a dick you will be done as a dick. I have filtered past cops in Auckland at a gentle jogging pace and never raised an eyebrow. Only ever had a knee down just prior to the rest of my anatomy so I guess it's not considered to be safe progress on a public road.
The big thing here is speed, just like the UK I guess. Use your head, be safe & considerate and get your jollys when nobody is looking. Very easy to do.

[kierbren]

I escaped the UK a couple of decades ago but still lack legal qualifications. My seat of the pants experience here matches the UK. If you are seen to be a dick you will be done as a dick. I have filtered past cops in Auckland at a gentle jogging pace and never raised an eyebrow. Only ever had a knee down just prior to the rest of my anatomy so I guess it's not considered to be safe progress on a public road.
The big thing here is speed, just like the UK I guess. Use your head, be safe & considerate and get your jollys when nobody is looking. Very easy to do.

Decent advice. Speed in UK you are allowed 10% to allow for speedo being out. A motorway is 70mph, so doing 77 you will not get a ticket as people on motorways in England drive at 80mph. I hear and see here you get a ticket for 4k's over which I think is pretty ridiculous but respect the law in the city. England does have static speed camera though, I haven't seen to many around here.

[Mushu]

The splitting/filtering thing is only really allowed by a loop-hole designed to allow drivers to pass other road users that are slowing down to make a turn (into a street or driveway) but the language in the law is ambiguous and unintentionally allows for "lane sharing" ie. splitting/filtering. Or at least that's my understanding of the legality of it. I've never been done for it and do it daily but I do it carefully.

As far as knee down, I think there is a law which states that only tyres and straps meant to dissipate static are allowed to touch the ground, but I am too lazy to go looking to see if i can find it. If I'm right that would make knee down a no no.

[5ive]

No. Yes/No. Hope that helps.

[george formby]

straps meant to dissipate static are allowed to touch the ground,

Static dissipating knee sliders? Could be a winner.

[AllanB]

If you are going fast enough on a public road to need to have your knee down on the ground then it is highly likely if you get stopped you'll be in trouble.

If you are one of those riders who hang off on every corner regardless of your speed or need .............

[MD]

If you are going fast enough on a public road to need to have your knee down on the ground then it is highly likely if you get stopped you'll be in trouble.

If you are one of those riders who hang off on every corner regardless of your speed or need .............

Yeah doesn't matter if you claim to have been within the speed limit, the big risk to your licence is Mr plod could do you for careless driving if you had your knee down. Hard to argue but hey, what fun it is.

Lane splitting- DON'T ASK. It's a painful topic that goes on and on and on with no end like dividing 22 by 7

[TheDemonLord]

As a practical answer to is Lane Splitting legal:

I split everyday for about 20-30 Km of my 60 Km commute (one way) to work.

The only time I ever have had any trouble with the police is:

1: I went 'filtering' into a gap where the traffic had started to flow nicely again - I may have gone into the gap at about 80-90kph (traffic was speeding up from 40-50 to 70-80) and I got a finger wag from a marked police car
2: Similar situation, traffic sped up for a short section, I CBF'd pulling in line with the traffic (as I knew it would slow down in 400m thanks to the onramp coming up) a Bike Cop lifted his lid - politely told me that at above 60 Kph, I should be in line with the traffic (we didn't stop, he told me while we were rolling along) before he waved me to go on.

As others have said - filtering is 'legal' thanks to some very liberal interpretation of our keep left/overtaking laws (basically the Law says you can go round a stopped vehicle or a slow moving vehicle) but unlike other places - there is no explicit rule that says filtering is either legal or illegal. There is a technical Caveat - in order to be an overtake, filtering should be done in the Right hand side of the lane, not the left hand side of the lane. But since most drivers hug the right hand side of the lane, typically I find myself filtering on the left of the right hand lane.

TL:DR - filter sensibly and you won't have an issue - Filter on the back wheel at 100+ through stationary traffic and you will get pulled.

[James Deuce]

Decent advice. Speed in UK you are allowed 10% to allow for speedo being out. A motorway is 70mph, so doing 77 you will not get a ticket as people on motorways in England drive at 80mph. I hear and see here you get a ticket for 4k's over which I think is pretty ridiculous but respect the law in the city. England does have static speed camera though, I haven't seen to many around here.

The normal speedo variation allowed is 8%.

Holiday time is 4%.

There are more speed cameras than you would imagine because they aren't signposted in NZ as they arein the UK. We also have them mounted in vans that park on the side of highways and motorways and sometimes in suburban streets and main arterial routes in cities.

[MisterD]

We also have them mounted in vans that park on the side of highways and motorways and sometimes in suburban streets and main arterial routes in cities.

Usually set up to take a photo of the front of the vehicle though, so not such a problem on 2 wheels.

[Autech]

If you are going fast enough on a public road to need to have your knee down on the ground then it is highly likely if you get stopped you'll be in trouble.

If you are one of those riders who hang off on every corner regardless of your speed or need .............

+1

Save that shit for Ruapuna.

[Latte]

Filter on the back wheel at 100+ through stationary traffic and you will get pulled.

If you wave it's ok.

[Asher]

I have never heard of anyone getting done for knee dragging.
Unless you are doing in the city (which is a bad idea) you are likely doing it away from the typical patrol routes, and to be fair if you go past a cop with your knee on the ground the chances of the cop u turning and catching you are pretty slim.

[Luckylegs]

I have never heard of anyone getting done for knee dragging.
Unless you are doing in the city (which is a bad idea) you are likely doing it away from the typical patrol routes, and to be fair if you go past a cop with your knee on the ground the chances of the cop u turning and catching you are pretty slim.

Not be confused with them u turning in front of you which is likely

[sugilite]

Knee dragging and knuckle dragging have similar penalties.

[tigertim20]

If you are going fast enough on a public road to need to have your knee down on the ground then it is highly likely if you get stopped you'll be in trouble.

If you are one of those riders who hang off on every corner regardless of your speed or need .............

knee dragging can be done at very low speed. I wagered a mate that it would be done at under 40km/hr. managed to do it at 35. so you may not necessarily need to be going that fast.

if youre going to do it though, do it somewhere quiet. what nobody sees, nobody can fine you for

[Marmoot]

312661
Cornering should not be a crime.

[TheDemonLord]

On a side note - I have yet to get my knee down :(

That said, probably a good thing as my Kevlar trousers don't have knee sliders :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Reckless]

On a side note - I have yet to get my knee down :(

I don't even try on the road, never have, just makes you look like a great big cock :facepalm:

But if you shift your ass of the seat enough and stick your knee out enough, like most knee down road riders.
It'll touch even at 20deg lean, thats what most of them do :shutup:

[caseye]

I don't even try on the road, never have, just makes you look like a great big cock :facepalm:

But if you shift your ass of the seat enough and stick your knee out enough, like most knee down road riders.
It'll touch even at 20deg lean, thats what most of them do :shutup:

You ask me, kneee down on the open road is a blind cock suckers way of keeping in touch with the tar seal.
Not a particularly good way either.
Go ahead OP, drop the knee in front of a patrol car/bike and see what happens, you of course already know what will! happen, so why bother with the question?

[puddytat]

Knee down is so last week.....its all about elbow nowadays....

[Erelyes]

Knee down on public road - like the above have said, cop didn't see it you didn't do it. Cop did see it you're at their mercy.

Filtering/splitting:
Filtering (past stationary traffic) is legal.
Splitting (past moving traffic) is illegal, unless you remain entirely in the left hand lane (that's the whole bike, not just wheels) and are indicating, which in practice is nigh on impossible.

Practically speaking the cops are fine with either, as long as you aren't blasting past, and once traffic gets properly moving (some say 60, I'd say more like 40), you get back in the normal flow. I have split past cop cars and then moved back into the flow of traffic directly ahead of them and been fine.

[cheshirecat]

Knee down on public road - like the above have said, cop didn't see it you didn't do it. Cop did see it you're at their mercy.

Filtering/splitting:
Filtering (past stationary traffic) is legal.
Splitting (past moving traffic) is illegal, unless you remain entirely in the left hand lane (that's the whole bike, not just wheels) and are indicating, which in practice is nigh on impossible.

Practically speaking the cops are fine with either, as long as you aren't blasting past, and once traffic gets properly moving (some say 60, I'd say more like 40), you get back in the normal flow. I have split past cop cars and then moved back into the flow of traffic directly ahead of them and been fine.

Unless in Welly and spotted by Ginger Gorge

[FJRider]

Splitting (past moving traffic) is illegal, unless you remain entirely in the left hand lane (that's the whole bike, not just wheels) and are indicating, which in practice is nigh on impossible.


Overtaking in any lane is legal if you overtake to the right of the vehicle you are overtaking .... And remain in the same lane. It is not permitted to overtake on the left of a vehicle in the same lane as you.

[Reckless]

Splitting (past moving traffic) is illegal, unless you remain entirely in the left hand lane (that's the whole bike, not just wheels) and are indicating, which in practice is nigh on impossible.


Overtaking in any lane is legal if you overtake to the right of the vehicle you are overtaking .... And remain in the same lane. It is not permitted to overtake on the left of a vehicle in the same lane as you.

And we all know in real world its impossible to lane split legally in traffic because everyone in the left lane pulls to the right so they can see down the que
312704
So we all break the stupid outdated impractical law, everytime we drift over that line when we split, so the Ginger can sit at the bottom of the gorge and dish out senseless tickets.

[FJRider]

so we all break the stupid outdated impractical law, everytime we drift over that line when we split, so the ginger can sit at the bottom of the gorge and dish out senseless tickets.

yep ............ ;)

[rastuscat]

312705

........................

[caseye]

312705

........................

Hey Rastus, nice to see you in civvy street, enjoy the new ride mate.

[Big Dog]

Once upon a time in an Auckland far far away my mum got a ticket from the MoT rider that pulled us over for failing to keep left.
Gave her a lecture about impeding the lawful progress of other commuters.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[varminter]

I take a spare knee with me and drag it down the road, does that count?

[kierbren]

You ask me, kneee down on the open road is a blind cock suckers way of keeping in touch with the tar seal.
Not a particularly good way either.
Go ahead OP, drop the knee in front of a patrol car/bike and see what happens, you of course already know what will! happen, so why bother with the question?

The nice road I won't say where, is 100km speed limit, every corner is 35/45 degree corners. So perfect, the knee down helps me corner quicker. This isn't done in streets like people are suggesting, it's country roads.

[ellipsis]

...I must be getting old...

[98tls]

...I must be getting old...

Indeed though i find it comforting compared to not.:niceone:

[Hobbes-on-a-gsxr]

funny lane splitting story,

I was lane splitting up the auckland motorway and came up on a police car, who i noticed was on his cellphone. As i passed him i knocked on his window and did the "hang up" hand signal. He gave me the sheepy-ist fuck you look i've ever seen, but hung up and surprisingly didn't pull me over and do me for anything he could.

[Akzle]

funny lane splitting story,

I was lane splitting up the auckland motorway and came up on a police car, who i noticed was on his cellphone. As i passed him i knocked on his window and did the "hang up" hand signal. He gave me the sheepy-ist fuck you look i've ever seen, but hung up and surprisingly didn't pull me over and do me for anything he could.

relevance: 0.

epic: 4/10

[nodrog]

funny lane splitting story,

I was lane splitting up the auckland motorway and came up on a police car, who i noticed was on his cellphone. As i passed him i knocked on his window and did the "hang up" hand signal. He gave me the sheepy-ist fuck you look i've ever seen, but hung up and surprisingly didn't pull me over and do me for anything he could.

316130


____________

[FJRider]

Indeed though i find it comforting compared to not.:niceone:

The other option has it's down side ... :blank:

[JayDNZ]

England does have static speed camera though, I haven't seen to many around here.

Plenty of speed cameras in NZ dishing out fines, however you only get demerits/points on your license if you get busted by a cop with a pulse... so that's something.

[rastuscat]

Check out the Riders of Christchurch Facebook page. Plenty of posers on there.

https://www.facebook.com/RidersOfCHCH/

A local photographer (motorcycle bloke too) sets a camera up on the road to the Hilltop. People go past and get their snaps taken.

Some go back, come by again and get their knee down for that genuine Valentino moment.

Problem is, they haven't got Valentinos tyres, Valentinos skill set or Valentinos carpet smooth track to ride on.

Honestly, public roads are no place for getting your knee down.

https://youtu.be/aj4kAMuMEr4?list=PLDaHaa4FE8sQxGW8FH-tL6IHFdv7S7Fro

Re the legality of it (or not), the test of Careless Driving is whether the driving was up to the standard of a careful and prudent driver. Can't see many JPs having much sympathy for a knee dragger.

The next thing we'll see, a la Valentino, is a thread about getting your elbow down.

Go get a track day.

Sheesh. I'm all for a bit of fun, but really?

[rastuscat]

317512

Nice style, on a track. Just a bit unnecessary on a public road.

[haydes55]

Nice style, on a track. Just a bit unnecessary on a public road.

You have to admit, that's not horrible form in that photo.

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[nzspokes]

Nice style, on a track. Just a bit unnecessary on a public road.

Thats a great shot. I would be really happy with that.

His road position is good and he is looking through the turn. Happy days.

[rastuscat]

Thats a great shot. I would be really happy with that.

His road position is good and he is looking through the turn. Happy days.

Totally agree. Nice line, great head position.

But it polarises other road users to see us like Joey Dunlop wannabees.

[jasonu]

317512

Nice style, on a track. Just a bit unnecessary on a public road.

Is that Cassina?

[buggerit]

Is that Cassina?

Nah, she drags both knees, her arse and her elbow, rinse and repeat:wacko:

[Berries]

But it polarises other road users to see us like Joey Dunlop wannabees.
Can't imagine many NZ'ers know who he is. Probably more people recognise Mike Pero as a bike racer. In fact...............

[rastuscat]

Had a funny experience this morning when conducting a Basic Handling Skills Test.

Young guy was totally road inexperienced, but had been on race bikes on a track quite a bit over the last couple of years.

This led to him shifting his weight to reduce his lean angle when going around one of the corners involved in the test.

This is, the test is normally done at no more than 20 km/h, and there is certainly no need for anyone doing it to lean very far, as the corners are fairly broad.

Just proved to me that people ride from habit. And if getting your knee down is a habit, it's what you'll do.

[TheDemonLord]

Had a funny experience this morning when conducting a Basic Handling Skills Test.

Young guy was totally road inexperienced, but had been on race bikes on a track quite a bit over the last couple of years.

This led to him shifting his weight to reduce his lean angle when going around one of the corners involved in the test.

This is, the test is normally done at no more than 20 km/h, and there is certainly no need for anyone doing it to lean very far, as the corners are fairly broad.

Just proved to me that people ride from habit. And if getting your knee down is a habit, it's what you'll do.

Did he Pass?

did he get extra Style points?

[pritch]

You have to admit, that's not horrible form in that photo.


It's not great either. His head and upper body are in the wrong place. It's a minor variation on the usual KB theme, swivel your hips and push the bike down.

When they say, "kiss the mirror" to describe the correct head position, they mean the inside mirror. Like the guy in my avatar, and he's been doing it for twenty years.

[rastuscat]

Did he Pass?

did he get extra Style points?

He passed. Coz he had good handling skills.

His observation skills were lacking though. On a track head checks don't matter quite as much.

[Erelyes]

It's not great either. His head and upper body are in the wrong place. It's a minor variation on the usual KB theme, swivel your hips and push the bike down.

When they say, "kiss the mirror" to describe the correct head position, they mean the inside mirror. Like the guy in my avatar, and he's been doing it for twenty years.

Most of the aliens these days are more, 'kiss the indicator'.

[pritch]

317551
Most of the aliens these days are more, 'kiss the indicator'.

Agreed. This young feller has nice style though. In this shot his knee isn't on the ground, but then neither are his wheels. :whistle:

(Apologies for the hijack.)

[Autech]

It's not great either. His head and upper body are in the wrong place. It's a minor variation on the usual KB theme, swivel your hips and push the bike down.

When they say, "kiss the mirror" to describe the correct head position, they mean the inside mirror. Like the guy in my avatar, and he's been doing it for twenty years.

Glad someone else said it lol. Not bad form truth be told, but I prefer my head forward over the handgrip as much as possible. Climb the tank so to speak.

On the track for me what started as bragging rights has turned into a useful tool for me to judge bike/body position. Last weekend I was experimenting with the difference between pushing out with the outside foot and how it effected the bike on the sweeper. But thats on the track with lots of room to fall off if I cock up. I have never once whilst road riding thought that knee down was ever necessary. That said if people feel comfortable doing it then fair play.




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