Classic BMWs? Scrambler Build

[SamNich]

Hey Guys, new to KIwiBiker.

I am in search for a nice classic motorcycle to turn into a scrambler but not sure which way to go. Was looking into the BMW R65. Anyone have any experience with those? Any other recommendations? Just looking for a base motorcycle that fits into the LAMS requirements, has a reasonable amount of punch and is reasonably reliable and easy to source parts. Dont really want to be paying over $5000. Don't mind having something to tinker with.


Thanks for your help, Cheers

[AllanB]

BMW is a great base. Google image search 'BMW Scrambler' you will be inspired.

[mossy1200]

Hey Guys, new to KIwiBiker.

I Just looking for a base motorcycle that fits into the LAMS requirements, has a reasonable amount of punch and is reasonably reliable and easy to source parts. Dont really want to be paying over $5000.


Thanks for your help, Cheers


Wont fit into LAMS for long if your changing things.
If you want a good result and a $5k budget you will need a free bike to start with also.

[Mike.Gayner]

Just looking for a base motorcycle that fits into the LAMS requirements

Why? If you're planning on modifying it (durr) then it's not going to be LAMS compliant.

[Motu]

Don't forget the exhaust wrap.

[SamNich]

Why? If you're planning on modifying it (durr) then it's not going to be LAMS compliant.

Not modifying the engine or anything like that, just asthetics, seat, lights, handlebars etc. Wasnt sure that effected its compliance?

[Laava]

You should be able to get some great inspiration from Ichiban Moto on YouTube

[mossy1200]

Not modifying the engine or anything like that, just asthetics, seat, lights, handlebars etc. Wasnt sure that effected its compliance?

Even looks like an attempt to do something to change the power to weight of the original bike or new exhaust that may increase power will make it non compliant.

You might as well just buy my K100CR and put some dirty tires on it. For you $5.1k and that's me loosing a lot of money and time.

[Mike.Gayner]

Not modifying the engine or anything like that, just asthetics, seat, lights, handlebars etc. Wasnt sure that effected its compliance?

You will change the weight and therefore the power to weight ratio. And I'm guessing you're not going to make it heavier.

[SamNich]

Even if I wern't to change a great deal about it, would a BMW be a good base classic bike or should I consider another option. Thanks guys

[mossy1200]

Even if I wern't to change a great deal about it, would a BMW be a good base classic bike or should I consider another option. Thanks guys

Go to the Cook Islands and get full licence then buy a K100CR.

r65 would be a good bike if your into that style. Best to keep it original and not lose money rather than alter a good r beemer.

[Mike.Gayner]

Go to the Cook Islands and get full licence then buy a K100CR.

That loophole hasn't existed for about the last 15 years.

[mossy1200]

That loophole hasn't existed for about the last 15 years.

There is fresh claims of the Raro license still working on another thread a few weeks ago.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174739-good-learner-bike?highlight=rarotonga

[Tazz]

In regards to modifying and worrying about getting pinged for power to weight, it could be considered a concern, however the advice you have been given above is only risk speculation and not based on the fact of anyone actually having some OTT WOF officer or cop giving anyone a hard time.

To the contrary there are posts on here of exhaust systems on modern LAMs bikes that are there specifically for performance sometimes getting a mention but not causing grief or getting them into trouble.
There is also the insurance argument, it may be void because of modifications. Not if you call them and find out direct. You may be surprised.

Even with a bunch stripped off an R65 you'd be safely under the power to weight anyway most likely, it's hardly a performance based beast.

Another aspect is, if you're not caught wheelying everywhere or doing sweet jumps over traffic islands you're not going to give anyone a reason to examine and weigh your bike with gusto.

[Tazz]

That loophole hasn't existed for about the last 15 years.


There is fresh claims of the Raro license still working on another thread a few weeks ago.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174739-good-learner-bike?highlight=rarotonga

It's been covered dozens of times. You go straight to sitting the test for full now rather than swapping it straight over, so you still have to prove your competent (also the CBTA tests are a lot more thorough than the old ones. I bet a lot of people who have ridden for a long time would fail them).

[rastuscat]

Believe me, even the NZTA knows about the loophole, and says it's available.

Mossys bike looks great, and I've have it if I could justify the cost.

[Banditbandit]

Oh look .. BMW made one just for you ...

http://dakardream.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/IMG_8017.jpg

[mossy1200]

Believe me, even the NZTA knows about the loophole, and says it's available.

Mossys bike looks great, and I've have it if I could justify the cost.

You could get it sign written with www.motorcycletraining.co.nz and claim 30% back as a business expense for advertising. Couple of online photos on your web site and some depreciation yearly. Couple of years time only owe you $5 and a packet of chips all up. Welcome to the blurry side of the law.

[SamNich]

Hey Guys, some really good information going up here, thank you very much, highly appreciate all your guys time. have got my eye pretty set on the R65. Are there any other decent classic twins around which I should consider?

[mossy1200]

Hey Guys, some really good information going up here, thank you very much, highly appreciate all your guys time. have got my eye pretty set on the R65. Are there any other decent classic twins around which I should consider?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-902354963.htm

This one.:sunny:

[nodrog]

There is fresh claims of the Raro license still working on another thread a few weeks ago.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174739-good-learner-bike?highlight=rarotonga

I just got back from Raro. While you may not be able to convert your Raro license to a NZ licence anymore, you can still use it for 12 months as an international license.

Met a guy over there who has a holiday there every year and does just that, and he's got some 1100cc cruiser thing here.

The $20 license is just a money making Scheme. There was a line 10 deep, all day every day waiting to ride up a 20 metre driveway then ride back in and out of 5 cones.

Nobody failed, including the guy that didn't weave in and out of the cones.

What's even funnier is the rental company can write you out a temporary license for 24 hours so you can ride to the police station to sit your license.

[Oscar]

This is my idea of a scrambler, and built by a woman:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L9P3IBOwzfQ/VPjZ5mDixaI/AAAAAAAAB-o/RFU159MFnxw/w1152-h768-no/P2242022.JPG

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1000797

The detail on this thing is amazing.

[Voltaire]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-902354963.htm

This one.:sunny:

Yes, it looks nice but the 600 motor is pretty much a plodder as is the heavy flywheel and 4 speed box.
The R65 would have the later box/clutch and they spin right out to over 7000.

I took my BMW to work today, suppose its a sort of scrambler... R80ST

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/IMAG2257_zps92b401d8.jpg

[Oscar]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-902354963.htm

This one.:sunny:

I didn't think it was possible to make a BMW more ugly than stock.

[puddytat]

This is my idea of a scrambler, and built by a woman:



The detail on this thing is amazing.

That is such a cool thread.....& such a cool lady.

[ellipsis]

...have to agree 100% with Oscars last two posts :eek5:..I must be getting old...

[MisterD]

Are there any other decent classic twins around which I should consider?

Why not a Dubya? It's somehow managed to find its way onto the LAMS list, despite being 676cc, and there are aftermarket parts for Africa if you can decipher Webike Japan's Engrish.

http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/kawasaki-w650-2-625x416.jpg

[Erelyes]

In regards to modifying and worrying about getting pinged for power to weight, it could be considered a concern, however the advice you have been given above is only risk speculation and not based on the fact of anyone actually having some OTT WOF officer or cop giving anyone a hard time.

Absolutely right. They didn't even bother considering how the Police (or indeed WOF checkers) would establish power OR weight, they just made it so that "any motorcycle which is modified in a way which increases its power-to-weight is no longer learner approved".

They did have the foresight to put the burden of proof on the person failing the WOF / getting the ticket, though. For better or worse <_<

Could be worse, I suppose. They could have just said "any motorcycle which is modified is no longer learner approved"...

[Mike.Gayner]

Absolutely right. They didn't even bother considering how the Police (or indeed WOF checkers) would establish power OR weight, they just made it so that "any motorcycle which is modified in a way which increases its power-to-weight is no longer learner approved".

They did have the foresight to put the burden of proof on the person failing the WOF / getting the ticket, though. For better or worse <_<

Could be worse, I suppose. They could have just said "any motorcycle which is modified is no longer learner approved"...

It's really not as hard as you're making it sound. Firstly, this whole scheme has absolutely nothing to do with the WOF scheme. Why you're bringing WOF into this is beyond reason.

Secondly, it's not hard to see if a modification was done "in a way which increases its power-to-weight". Any modification that either increases power or decreases weight is prohibited. A slip-on muffler, for example, does both. Really not hard for anyone to figure that one out.

[Tazz]

Absolutely right. They didn't even bother considering how the Police (or indeed WOF checkers) would establish power OR weight, they just made it so that "any motorcycle which is modified in a way which increases its power-to-weight is no longer learner approved".

They did have the foresight to put the burden of proof on the person failing the WOF / getting the ticket, though. For better or worse <_<

Could be worse, I suppose. They could have just said "any motorcycle which is modified is no longer learner approved"...

To be fair, they did..."these motorcycles must be in standard form as produced by the manufacturer.". I was just meaning the folks making it sound like a massive deal have not had first hand experience with any of it.

Personally I have changed lighting, screens, plastics, seats, exhaust tips, some internals etc among other things on 3 LAMs bikes and have not run into a single issue over any of it with the fuzz or WOF peoples (although as above a bit redundant), and have talked to my insurer about anything I was unsure of out of interest, as technically everything I have done is illegal, but so is J walking...
Shit some overzealous wanker could probably do you for changing brake pads and tyres from factory with wording like that :laugh: Doesn't mean it will/won't happen or is worth worrying about if you're willing to accept the risk :niceone:

[Erelyes]

It's really not as hard as you're making it sound. Firstly, this whole scheme has absolutely nothing to do with the WOF scheme. Why you're bringing WOF into this is beyond reason.

Secondly, it's not hard to see if a modification was done "in a way which increases its power-to-weight". Any modification that either increases power or decreases weight is prohibited. A slip-on muffler, for example, does both. Really not hard for anyone to figure that one out.

First point, absolutely right, not sure why I thought WOFS were relevant. My bad.

Second point, ok: so on bike 'A', you add a set of luggage racks, and then fit a slip-on. Has your overall power-to-weight increased or decreased?

[mossy1200]

Secondly, it's not hard to see if a modification was done "in a way which increases its power-to-weight". Any modification that either increases power or decreases weight is prohibited. A slip-on muffler, for example, does both. Really not hard for anyone to figure that one out.

Maybe a before and after dyno run and weight of muffler to show no decrease of weight or increase of power.
Most 30 year old 250s pipes are rotten and need replaced. Best defence is not to rev the ring out of your bike in town creating unwanted popo attention. If your making an excessive noise then your asking for a lams issue.

Some of these new single cylinder 250s sound so bad with noisy budget pipes they deserve to be impounded. CBRs are just the worst.

[Tazz]

Man the pack/luggage rack is one I didn't even think about for actually being illegal.
It is a not factory trim after all so I hope no rider on their LAMs ever installs one least the long arm of the law smite them with some lame ass ticket, because clearly that sort of modification will kill someone :banana:


Best defence is not to rev the ring out of your bike in town creating unwanted popo attention. If your making an excessive noise then your asking for a lams issue.

This is partly the rule I live by. Not just noise though.
I'm not perfect and slip sometimes in areas I'd deem as 'high risk', but all things considered I do alright on my 'illegal' scooters.

[Mike.Gayner]

Second point, ok: so on bike 'A', you add a set of luggage racks, and then fit a slip-on. Has your overall power-to-weight increased or decreased?

Doesn't matter, the modifications are independent. The slip on muffler is a modification that improves the power/weight. Seriously this scheme was designed so simple a child can understand it, yet KB still struggles.

And to the person above, an aftermarket exhaust doesn't need to improve performance to change the power/weight, because they are universally lighter than stock exhausts.

[mossy1200]

And to the person above, an aftermarket exhaust doesn't need to improve performance to change the power/weight, because they are universally lighter than stock exhausts.

Some of the earlier Remus stainless road cans would give manufactures a run for their money in the porky stats.

Stick something like this on and its unlikely it will be recognised as not stock. Carbon or titanium can with race use only printed on it and amplified sounds and your stuffed.

Unless your pipes had it not sure why you would want change it on a Lams bike anyway.

[Mike.Gayner]

Unless your pipes had it not sure why you would want change it on a Lams bike anyway.

Couldn't agree more - nothing sounds worse than a single or p-twin 250/300 with a noisy pipe.

[Erelyes]

Doesn't matter, the modifications are independent.

Contrary to what I've heard, and the wording I posted doesn't say "Any single modification which increases the power to weight".... it just says "any motorcycle which is modified in a way which increases...."

Got sauce?

[MisterD]

Unless your pipes had it not sure why you would want change it on a Lams bike anyway.

Depends why you bought the bike, I suppose. I got the SR because of the way it looks, and those looks will shortly be improved by replacing the stock pipe with something with a lot less visual weight and a bit less actual weight. It's not a temporary ride until I can get a "real" bike.



Contrary to what I've heard, and the wording I posted doesn't say "Any single modification which increases the power to weight".... it just says "any motorcycle which is modified in a way which increases...."

Yeah, and I'm still going with the intent of the law being to stop people un-restricting LAMS bikes up to their full-fat versions. I don't think anyone cares about an extra 1hp (maybe) on top of my stock 23...

[Tazz]

Unless your pipes had it not sure why you would want change it on a Lams bike anyway.

To you it's just a LAMs bike. You've have a bunch of different bikes and years riding no doubt. To someone starting out, it is THEIR LAMs beasty, probably their first bike, maybe their first new vehicle purchase ever and subsequently their pride and joy.

I see it all the time on here, just because it is not your cup of tea doesn't mean it's not someone elses.
With exceptions, half the classic bikes lusted over on here I think are ugly, boring pieces of shit with way to much money thrown at them to keep them on the road and/or in good nick, but a bunch of people would probably find bikes boring without those examples to own.


Contrary to what I've heard, and the wording I posted doesn't say "Any single modification which increases the power to weight".... it just says "any motorcycle which is modified in a way which increases...."

Got sauce?


"The following list of motorcycles with engine capacities between 251cc and 660cc - these motorcycles must be in standard form as produced by the manufacturer. They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio."

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/lams.html

That is on the NZTA website, which I could be wrong but doesn't necessarily mean it's law as far as I'm aware, but it does appear in a few spots.


"Will approved motorcycles be identified with a label?

The NZ Transport Agency considered adopting the labelling system that is used in Australia
to identify approved motorcycles.
The decision was made not to produce labels because of issues around motorcycle
modifications. Motorcycles listed on the approved list are compliant as produced by the manufacturer. If these motorcycles have been modified in anyway, they are no longer approved.
The NZTA has no control over the motorcycles once a label has been applied. This means it
could be modified, but still appear to be LAMS-compliant. "

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/docs/lams-faqs.pdf

However, right under that they seem to throw that wee gem out the window...


"Will the addition of aftermarket suspension affect the LAMS compliance of a
motorcycle?

If a motorcycle has a direct suspension replacement, it would not affect the power-to-weight
ratio of the motorcycle or the LAMS compliance."

So you can't do any modifications at all.

Nothing.

Nada.

Zip.

But then you can do some modifications :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:, unless it is a modification that increases power to weight, but there is no guideline as to what exactly they mean by that. Like replacing your bulbs for LED units that happen to be a few grams lighter. Are you breaking the law, or are inferring more towards the power side of the deal rather than the weight?

This poorly written shit is exactly why I pay less and less attention to the 'law' the older I get. It's not like it was even a system they started from scratch themselves!

[Maha]

Met a guy over there who has a holiday there every year and does just that, and he's got some 1100cc cruiser thing here.



I took a photo of his earlier bike at the markets.

[Erelyes]

So you can't do any modifications at all.

Nothing.

Nada.

Zip.

But then you can do some modifications :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:, unless it is a modification that increases power to weight, but there is no guideline as to what exactly they mean by that. Like replacing your bulbs for LED units that happen to be a few grams lighter. Are you breaking the law, or are inferring more towards the power side of the deal rather than the weight?

Thanks for the sauce. Yeah, the wording is pretty crap. Oh well, at least it's better than the days of being nothing more than 2fiddys, and a max speed limit of... what was it.... 70? We've come a long way from there.

[mossy1200]

To you it's just a LAMs bike. You've have a bunch of different bikes and years riding no doubt. To someone starting out, it is THEIR LAMs beasty, probably their first bike, maybe their first new vehicle purchase ever and subsequently their pride and joy.



I still had to go through the older 250 system with learners and restricted etc so I know what its like to have a limited choice.
I don't personally have an issue with the pipes but its the addition of cheap loud pipes onto the new 250 twins and singles that sound terrible and would create popo attention that I think is a backwards step from a stock pipe. Make bad noises and it will end up in a ticket under the lams modification rules. Choose nice pipe that's perhaps not totally unlike the original then most likely never have an issue as long as you don't have a loud mouth if pulled over.

I cant say a lot I owned a RG$00 on my learners licence.

[rambaldi]

I still had to go through the older 250 system with learners and restricted etc so I know what its like to have a limited choice.
I don't personally have an issue with the pipes but its the addition of cheap loud pipes onto the new 250 twins and singles that sound terrible and would create popo attention that I think is a backwards step from a stock pipe. Make bad noises and it will end up in a ticket under the lams modification rules. Choose nice pipe that's perhaps not totally unlike the original then most likely never have an issue as long as you don't have a loud mouth if pulled over.

I cant say a lot I owned a RG$00 on my learners licence.

I remember back when I was in school, all the boy racer types getting up in arms about changes to the law regarding modified vehicles. Amounted to potential tickets for things like excessive loss of traction or an overly loud modified exhaust. Is that still a thing?

[Tazz]

I still had to go through the older 250 system with learners and restricted etc so I know what its like to have a limited choice.
I don't personally have an issue with the pipes but its the addition of cheap loud pipes onto the new 250 twins and singles that sound terrible and would create popo attention that I think is a backwards step from a stock pipe. Make bad noises and it will end up in a ticket under the lams modification rules. Choose nice pipe that's perhaps not totally unlike the original then most likely never have an issue as long as you don't have a loud mouth if pulled over.

I cant say a lot I owned a RG$00 on my learners licence.

The point is your frame of mind is completely different now. First bikes/first vehicles for that matter, are prized possessions to most owners not matter the marque or condition, and pieces of shit to pretty much everyone else :laugh:

You can tell guys with the horrible sounding bikes how shit they sound till the cows come home, but they will think they are the bomb, until a few years from now when they look back and laugh. All part of the fun I reckon.


I remember back when I was in school, all the boy racer types getting up in arms about changes to the law regarding modified vehicles. Amounted to potential tickets for things like excessive loss of traction or an overly loud modified exhaust. Is that still a thing?

Doesn't seem to be. Don't know if it is because of the law, because it is easier to get correct info (rather than word of mouth about how much horsie powers you stand to gain if you just pull your muff off :laugh:) or even possibly because the actual correct parts are more readily available at better prices.
There are still some young guys putting some big money into them for sure. Met a friend of a friend a few months ago who had just spent 20k on his already modified engine, just to race around the Port Hills :crazy: Despite what the media and the fuzz say this sort of thing has always been around and always will be, they are just a lot faster than they were 40 years ago, but arguably safer too at the same time given modern vehicle construction standards.

[mossy1200]

You can tell guys with the horrible sounding bikes how shit they sound till the cows come home, but they will think they are the bomb, until a few years from now when they look back and laugh. All part of the fun I reckon.


Even when I was young and dumb I wasn't silly enough to think the sound that a cbr300 with a $80 ally tardme muffler would be considered cool. But I didn't need cones and barrier tape to stop me from testing the effect of falling in a hole either. Maybe times have changed.

[Motu]

I still think a single or twin with tuned length open pipes sounds beautiful...although any Japanese bike with open pipes sounds horrible. My R65 runs a Supertrapp and is hard to keep under 100db....I hate it with stock mufflers, and mine aren't stock anyway. The Boi Racers ruined it for all of us, but there seems to be less of the car on bump stops and huge can around these days, so maybe it did work after all.

[Tazz]

Even when I was young and dumb I wasn't silly enough to think the sound that a cbr300 with a $80 ally tardme muffler would be considered cool. But I didn't need cones and barrier tape to stop me from testing the effect of falling in a hole either. Maybe times have changed.

Um, your mother must be proud? :laugh: