Needing help with gravel driveway riding on sports bikes

[Katiepie]

I am putting up my hand asking for advice - well aware that people are going to tell me that I am retarded and a useless rider, the same old crap when I genuinely ask for advice.

But... I do need advice as I have lost a hell of a lot of confidence lately and as a result my bike is now basically stuck up the top of my driveway for winter until the ground dries out again. And that is not suiting me very well as I want to be commuting on my bike as much as possible to save on transport costs.

I would appreciate some advice as to how best approach getting up and down my rural gravel driveway on my R6.

I manage ok in the drier months, but with the rain and moisture on the ground I have lost all my confidence after almost coming off last time I came home from work on it.

A few of you will know my driveway. Perhaps only 80m long, gravel from the road edge where you turn in mixed with concrete, then it curves and starts to incline with gravel, tyre ruts and then the incline gets steeper when it straightens out. About half way up where the incline is at its steepest the gravel has mostly washed away and I'm left with clay in the tyre ruts. My neighbour who "maintains" the drive rakes all the loose gravel with his quad bike into the tyre ruts and the gravel is chucky and some of it quite large. The car slides on the wet clay trying to get up but there are still specks of gravel just outside of the tyre track.

I would feel a lot happier about this if I had more room to get my line from the road entry but I find I have to go from one tyre track across to the other as I get around the first bend due to the pot holes further up.

I'm not confident with the bike moving so much below me and it makes me really unsettled with the rear tyre slipping so much as I try to get up and over the brow of this hill when I hit large chunks of gravel, then onto clay. I'm trying my best to look ahead to the top of the drive, and loosen my grip on the bars and allow the bike to move. But I really am getting worse each time I do it (and the driveway is getting worse each winter unfortunately). With some decent pot holes I sometimes loose the constant power to the throttle and its bloody hard to get it back in time when I do.

Would appreciate some things I can try to get up it with a little more control or confidence. Going down it is ok - unless I come across a car coming up which happened 2 weeks ago. I touched the rear break thinking it was the better one to use doing downhill on gravel, but only narrowly stopped it going over, and even with front breaking I couldn't bring the bike to a stop on the steep part heading straight for the car. Was incredibly thankful the driver could see me skidding out of control and managed to drive up the bank enough to let me pass as there wasn't much of another option at that point in time.

I'm happy to ride in the cold and rain and dark. It doesn't worry me at all. What scares the fuck out of me in my driveway in winter. And I know it shouldn't be something that has that much control over me. I have lived here for 4.5 years - imagine I will be here for at least that again. The driveway is not changing any time soon, nor is my choice of bike. So I need to figure this out. Will more speed help me in my approach?

Have a slight block about falling off for some reason.

Appreciate any help in advance. :(

[jellywrestler]

I am putting up my hand asking for advice - well aware that people are going to tell me that I am retarded and a useless rider, the same old crap when I genuinely ask for advice.

But... I do need advice as I have lost a hell of a lot of confidence lately and as a result my bike is now basically stuck up the top of my driveway for winter until the ground dries out again. And that is not suiting me very well as I want to be commuting on my bike as much as possible to save on transport costs.

I would appreciate some advice as to how best approach getting up and down my rural gravel driveway on my R6.

I manage ok in the drier months, but with the rain and moisture on the ground I have lost all my confidence after almost coming off last time I came home from work on it.

A few of you will know my driveway. Perhaps only 80m long, gravel from the road edge where you turn in mixed with concrete, then it curves and starts to incline with gravel, tyre ruts and then the incline gets steeper when it straightens out. About half way up where the incline is at its steepest the gravel has mostly washed away and I'm left with clay in the tyre ruts. My neighbour who "maintains" the drive rakes all the loose gravel with his quad bike into the tyre ruts and the gravel is chucky and some of it quite large. The car slides on the wet clay trying to get up but there are still specks of gravel just outside of the tyre track.

I would feel a lot happier about this if I had more room to get my line from the road entry but I find I have to go from one tyre track across to the other as I get around the first bend due to the pot holes further up.

I'm not confident with the bike moving so much below me and it makes me really unsettled with the rear tyre slipping so much as I try to get up and over the brow of this hill when I hit large chunks of gravel, then onto clay. I'm trying my best to look ahead to the top of the drive, and loosen my grip on the bars and allow the bike to move. But I really am getting worse each time I do it (and the driveway is getting worse each winter unfortunately). With some decent pot holes I sometimes loose the constant power to the throttle and its bloody hard to get it back in time when I do.

Would appreciate some things I can try to get up it with a little more control or confidence. Going down it is ok - unless I come across a car coming up which happened 2 weeks ago. I touched the rear break thinking it was the better one to use doing downhill on gravel, but only narrowly stopped it going over, and even with front breaking I couldn't bring the bike to a stop on the steep part heading straight for the car. Was incredibly thankful the driver could see me skidding out of control and managed to drive up the bank enough to let me pass as there wasn't much of another option at that point in time.

I'm happy to ride in the cold and rain and dark. It doesn't worry me at all. What scares the fuck out of me in my driveway in winter. And I know it shouldn't be something that has that much control over me. I have lived her for 4.5 years - imagine I will be here for at least that again. The driveway is not changing any time soon, nor is my choice of bike. So I need to figure this out. Will more speed help me in my approach?

Have a slight block about falling off for some reason.

Appreciate any help in advance. :(
grab a smaller bike and do it again and again till you gain confidence, then once you've mastered it push the limits, and try things that may occur on your big bike so when they do occur you've got the answer.

[Gremlin]

Pic of the driveway?

My boss has had a few moments on gravel years ago and continues to hate it through to now. Last year he did buy a more dirt orientated bike to get out and explore more gravel, gain some confidence etc, and that's probably one of your best ways forward (find a friend with one, take it for a spin etc). You won't worry so much about your shiny fairings getting scratch, and besides, dirt/adventure bikes are meant to be dropped ;)

This will help with your confidence, and if you cast your mind back to when you were learning... it was likely that as you gained confidence you began to make progress... no different when acquiring another skill set.

Depending on the driveway, clay is a right bitch at the best of times, even with the right bike and knobbly tyres. Some momentum (if possible) is going to be your friend, and stopping can make it worse. When descending, you were correct to use the rear brake. Sports bikes always have a stronger front brake, but using this too much can cause you to lock the front, tuck, and down you go. The rear will lock more easily, but a slide is easier to control as you can still steer.

If playing on another bike isn't possible, then try to find some more friendly gravel to ride on. It is normal for a bike to move around on gravel, purely because the surface you're riding on isn't solid and will move around. Through experience you'll learn what is normal movement and what isn't... :facepalm:

[BMWST?]

perhaps a little work on the drive too.Is your neighbour approacheable on this?

[T.W.R]

Presumptions says you're doing it mostly in 1st gear :msn-wink: try 2nd so there's less on/off throttle action....steady power makes for a more stable ride

[Katiepie]

perhaps a little work on the drive too.Is your neighbour approacheable on this?

I rent, as does the neighbour at the top of my drive. It took me 2 years for my landlord to fix my leaking hot-water cylinder and its cheap rent - so driveway is simply "part of the deal".

As for the one neighbour who owns and "maintains" the shared driveway - he has threatened to shoot my dogs, beeped his horn for me to move off the driveway when I was on crutches in the halo trying to take my rubbish out in a wheelbarrow in the rain and I'm quite sure he has people held captive in his dungeon in the bottom of his imitation castle.

So alas no, not particularly approachable about this. Funny enough he is a "biker" too - but has a duel purpose with knobblies on it so doesn't give a toss about a little gravel or clay or pot holes.

I work for a road-works company now, been there for a couple of months, Have asked the guys to quote my land lord what it would cost to at least come and compact some gravel into the clay so it doesn't keep washing away down the slope. But don't think the landlord would ever budge on it. I have to just learn how to tackle it better.

Some good suggestions above - appreciate that guys. I know its my lack of confidence that is my biggest hindrance.

[Akzle]

nothing has traction on slick clay. except metal tracks. Get a bulldozer :laugh:


find a man. Instruct him to compact some gap60 into the worst of it, lay gap20 over and rotaho cement in to the top. Not prettiest but cheapest fix.

As for the riding, just pin it. Learn to skid and bounce between patches of traction.

[Paul in NZ]

Look I hear ya... The ST is like a hippo on ice skates on gravel or at least feels like it.

Maybe on a nice day you could go rake the worst of it out? Failing that a more upright bike for the winter months?

[nzspokes]

Yerp confidence is a hard one to get past. Im not great on gravel when we are 2 up, more worried about dropping my pillion on the road. Solo I am happy on it. I ride trail bikes as well.

I would try to find some gravel that is not steep to try out. Not fast but controlled. I agree with trying second if it will work. If one of the more experienced Wellington crew could pop round one day and spot you going up and down that may well help.

Loosy goosy is the way to go. Also if you are getting a lot of wheelspin maybe a more treaded rear tyre will help.

Photo of the drive will help. Maybe there is a better line to take.

But relax, relax, relax. Let the bike do the work.

[Ocean1]

Big road tyres are never easy on gravel let alone bald wet clay, and I don't know many that are confident on sports bike rubber in gravel.

Yes a touch more speed will help keep it pointed wherever you wouldn't have enough traction to maintain a slow walk. Trouble is whereas the gravel should be OK going down having to carry speed over the clay which sees you unable to stop before the road isn't a good idea. I'd say you really have to do something about the surface.

All I can suggest is possibly talk to the boss about a good price for delivering some fine chip, talk to the landlord about helping with that cost and possibly even talk to the castle dude about some help spreading it on the worst parts. Hard to believe none of the above would be prepared to help out but if that's the case I'm sure we could press up a working party here to spend an hour or two on the problem.

[Maha]

Reads like the driveway needs a blade put over it and then some decent gravel added. But you're stuck with what you have so, try walking it and mentally establish the 'trouble' spots firmly in your mind, kick the bigger rocks out of the way, you don't need to hit/contend with them. Then work out where you and your bike should be when approaching those spots. Head up looking forward/second gear/look to be in the lower rut heading into that incline curve area keep the power to rear wheel constant as you can, you normally only one shot at a clay sludge incline on a sports bike Katie, if you stop, it's all over, but you probably already know that.

[george formby]

Oh dear. Nothing worse than a butt puckering bit of clay.
Some good advice already stated. #1 being get some decent gravel down.
Head up, momentum and a very steady throttle, check. Braking when it's so slick is all about balance and finesse. Counter balancing the bike to keep it upright if it slides. It only works up to a point, gravity is hard to beat.
Any hoo, my contribution. This counter balancing lark. I ride a big bike with road tires in similar conditions and it shits me, too. When it's slick I keep my weight outside of a turn or camber, keep my weight on my legs not the seat of the bike so I can compensate for any loss of traction. Basically like riding a dirt bike. Being relaxed is paramount.
Sounds like your not fazed by the bike moving on the gravel just the slippy slidey clay bit.
See if you can hit somebody up for a bit of practice on a small bike somewhere slippy. I know the ergonomics of your bike are awful for climbing around on, been in a similar situation on a Fireblade meself, but shifting your body weight still helps.
And yeah, 2nd gear may be less abrupt and controllable than 1st. A touch of clutch here and there to lift the revs if necessary so it doesn't stall.
All the best. Sounds like a bit of a challenge.
Oh, gotta be very smooth.

[caspernz]

Smooth and steady is the key, loose on the bars and weight the pegs. Practice being the key to gaining confidence. And no I don't enjoy riding on badly maintained gravel or thru rough roadworks, but with practice the nervousness fades.

[Tazz]

On the gravel comments, you could just do a strip up the left side where it's the worst instead of forking out for the whole drive. Shouldn't cost much (especially if one of your workmates will do it for a weekend cashy to help you out). If the rents cheap enough it will kinda balance out?

Otherwise I've only got terrible advice. I just couldn't get the hang of gravel on my little CBR, I couldn't even leave my feet on the pegs as the front was so squirrely, so I bought a duel sport :laugh:

Second gear and feathering the clutch where you need to is good advice though.

[RDJ]

On gravel I had firmly unlearn my tendency to use the front brake much more than the rear... and, focusing on staying off the front brake and on the rear brake at slow speeds solved 90% of my problems.

The remaining 10% is I look for the rut left by car tires i.e the left 'track' and stay in that as much as is feasible.

Good luck KP.

[5ive]

Time to move?

[MarkW]

Where to start…….
Roading gravel is relatively cheap so my starting point would be to find some nice friendly Kiwibikers with access to a trailer, a decent tow vehicle and some spades. Forget the landlord for the moment and purchase enough gap 65 or gap 100 to not overload the trailer. Talk nicely to your workmates and your boss as to the best size and source of this.
Using the spades, fix the drainage so that water flows through the drain(s) or in the worst case scenario across the drive at right angles to the direction of travel. Water flowing down the wheel tracks is the last thing you want as it takes the metal away and carves trenches. Crossing a water path at right angles is just a bump.
It may be appropriate to make a sensible R6 sized metalled area to one side or other of the driveway. A bit that is flat enough and wide enough for you to use. A wider arc is easier to ride around so the R6 track is best on the outside of any corners that you have. If you need a staging area to take a pause, another deep breath etc. then make one.
You may need more than one trailer load of metal. But 4 guys should be able to shift half a metre of metal in less than 20 minutes. Whilst the driver and trailer are away getting refilled the friends are readying the next bit. Feed the guys and say thank you when they have finished.
Here in the extreme far north, 6 cubic metres of roading rock, delivered from the quarry 24km away and spread up my driveway works out at less than $400. And as my driveway is 700 metres long way more than one truck load is needed.

Having made the driveway more rideable the advice given in other replies is all helpful. Different methods of riding will be needed when going up to those when going down.

So I’ll start with up first.

Yes the bike will move around, but power and a certain amount of speed are your friends. Idle speed in first will be too slow but 4,000 rpm in second may well be too fast. So plan the ride in sections. Make the turn in off the road as easy as possible which means getting the speed right BEFORE you start to turn. So when turning you are not accelerating or decelerating. You are aiming at a smooth steady turn that ends up with the R6 where you want it to be in terms of the driveway, in the right gear and at the right speed. Then, without stopping, look for your next staging point and ride there, relaxed on the bike, and looking well ahead. A light throttle application to maintain your speed and balance. The bike will work better with the little bit of power. Any corners, speed correct in a straight line before you get to them. Then ride around the corner using as wide an arc as possible. It sounds silly, but walk the improved driveway first, working out which bits are easy and then how you want to actually ride the more tricky bits. Try and break the tricky bits into short individual bits. And don’t think about the tricky bit 3 up the driveway. Handle the first one, relax a little on the easier bit, handle the second one and then relax again. Repeat as needed. And remember to stop at the top.

So, onto the down bit.

You may well follow a completely different path when going down to that which you use going up. And this is fine. But again you need to do the walk and the planning. Warm the bike up properly before you start. And you are going to ride down the drive not roll or coast so the clutch lever needs to be out. When riding down you want both wheels to be turning at all times as a locked wheel has far less traction and will simply slide down a slope. Your bike has sufficient engine braking on its own to handle slowing the back wheel down so use of the rear brake may well be minimal. You need to maintain enough speed to make your balancing easy. Again we are looking for smooth and constant speed, wide corner arcs and control. So again, relaxed, eyes looking up and where you want to go and learn to feather the front brake. The engine braking on the rear wheel will keep a lot of the speed in check, the rest needs to come from light and very smooth applications of the front brake. Use a constant speed if you can so that the brain doesn’t have to recalculate for speed differences.

In a tar sealed carpark you can practice a lot of these skills. The tighter cornering at a constant speed; the smooth application of throttle at low speeds; the front brake feathering and so on. If you can find a carpark with a slope then AFTER getting it good on the flat then move onto the slope. Don’t try and practice for an hour – you’ll end up getting tired and frustrated. 10 minutes at a time (and you could go for a 20 minute ride, 10 minutes practice, 20 minute ride, 10 minutes practice etc. if you want) and you’ll get better pretty quickly.

Enjoy.

[willytheekid]

grab a smaller bike and do it again and again till you gain confidence, then once you've mastered it push the limits, and try things that may occur on your big bike so when they do occur you've got the answer.

+1:niceone:

Experiance is the best teacher :yes:

[Katiepie]

Some excellent advice in your posts, thank you. I really appreciate the genuine replies as this is something that I am now really struggling with - despite living in the same place for 4.5 year, having a steep gravel driveway in my previous home where I learned to ride, and managing to stay upright at the cold Kiwi entrance for the past years.

Nope - still haven't got the hang of it, but unfortunately my driveway gets worse each winter and with my creepy neighbour with the castle "maintaining" it and it constantly changing once I finally get used to my tyre placement and line.

I have a lot to work on, and you are right - getting comfortable on something smaller and more suitable than the R6 is something I'm very keen to do. I want to master this fear this winter as the bike really is my only affordable option for commuting and I don't w3ant to have to rely on summer and a drier driveway.

A follow-on question relates to what I mentioned about going down the drive (yes, I take the other side and this is much for settled for the decent) but coming across a car coming up. How on earth do I stop the bike on the steeper part with gravel below me that sits on top of the hard clay? Is this even possible? I touch the rear break with the engine engaged anyway heading down to try and stabilize the bike - but what kind of mix of breaks would be best to come to a stop should I need to again? I was so close to coming off last time trying to stop with an oncoming car as the bike seemed to just keep sliding from under me. Pretty sure I was too heavy on the rear break anyway and was loosing the back quickly.

Oh man - I have so much to learn, and this bloody block I have about coming off again really is proving to be my biggest challenge.

[AllanB]

It's not you it's the drive. Clay is shit to ride on with street tyres.

Smaller bike is a fair suggestion BUT if you bin that in practice you'll fair shit yourself next time on the R6.


Some KBer must be able to deliver you a load of shingle or similar if you pay for the product. Free delivery for a fellow biker of course.


I loaded up some base course mixed with some sandy shit (good for drive bases he said) compacted it with the weight of the car and sprinkled a top coating of more visually pleasing stones. NOTE if the stones are too deep you can get your wiggle on on two wheels!

[Tazz]

Sometimes, unhelpfully, the only way to stop on clay is to fall over, and even that isn't guaranteed to work :angry: [emoji23]

Post a pic of the drive. There might be a better line someone can point out.

[jellywrestler]

have you thought about fitting a sidecar?

[swtfa]

Thanks for putting this thread up Katiepie. I too have the same problem with my driveway and also lost confidence along the way. Some good advice - thank you all :)

[Gremlin]

Mix of brakes:
Your R6 likely doesn't have ABS, so you have to modulate them yourself. Essentially, maximum braking is the same as on the road, but your threshold for locking the brakes is lower, and very dependent on the surface (which can change from metre to metre). Even adventure bikes will have problems coming to a complete stop quickly on steep stuff as the stones will roll and move and the forward momentum of the bike keeps it moving forward. In contrast, hard pack/compressed gravel is almost like a sealed road, easy to stop on, fast etc. It's the loose stones that are tricky.

Only experience/practise/confidence will give you the information you need. If you can sense the wheel locking, then you ease off, and you're always leaving room for error as you simply can't just stop like you could on a sealed road. Often the last metre or two on rough gravel is the hardest as your wheels can be stopped but the bike is still sliding (and the steeper the section is, the more likely you're going to slide).

Your only other tactic is to increase your forward vision as much as possible to give both you maximum warning and any oncoming vehicles. So on a right hand curve you're as far to the left as possible and vice versa on a left hand curve. Being a single lane, plus driveway, speed should be slow and all users should be able to stop in half the visible distance. On a left, if you see an oncoming vehicle you can straight line to the left side from the right side (hoping the surface allows this) and it's easier to brake in a straight line than leant over (even more true on gravel).

[caseye]

Hey there KP, well the lads have pretty much outlined all that you can do, practically.
Up isn't so bad as with speed controlled by your right hand "powered" forward motion is easily controlled.Stopping on clay on road tyres, is never an easy thing if it's wet, so speed must be matched to visible distance ahead.
Going down, now there's the thing.The best will in the world doesn't stop a 4-500lb bike continuing to slide, skid downwards towards exactly what you don't want to hit.
So, there is no optimal speed for travelling downhill on clay, best advice is keep both front and rear brakes slightly on, maintaining forward motion with just enough throttle control to keep you "moving under power" forwards.Same thing as up, be able to stop on the surface you are on in half the distance you can see ahead.
As always you have the right idea, go ride up and down that sucker of a driveway in the dry then in a bit of wet, then in pouring rain, you'll get it, I know you will.
I reckon the posse of Kb'ers and a few hours on a shovel looks like a damn good reason for a bit of a knees up at your house.Invite the driveway neighbour he might turn around.
Great seeing you about, don't worry about asking questions, you don't ask you don't get.
Pity is the bandit doesn't carry a lot of metal, but she'd love a trip down thataways to help out, so keep us posted.
Little steps KP, you're still here, you're still riding, proud of ya.

[merv]

How cheap is this rent to make it worthwhile to not look for a nice place with flat drive on access with a concrete or asphalt driveway?

[FJRider]

How cheap is this rent to make it worthwhile to not look for a nice place with flat drive on access with a concrete or asphalt driveway?

0r how difficult finding a safe place to park it (friend/neighbour) ... hopefully not far from home .. ??

[Katiepie]

How cheap is this rent to make it worthwhile to not look for a nice place with flat drive on access with a concrete or asphalt driveway?

My crash has left me in a challenging financial situation and thanks to our buddies at ACC I am many years away from being able to afford to live anywhere else on the income that I now earn post accident.

So no, not an option. I am lucky to live where I do for what I pay, and house my two dogs while renting. You can't even get a tiny unit in the suburbs for what I pay and to be honest this house is one of the only things that pulled me through a messy few years.

Here for at least another 4 years plus again so it's about time I got over this fear of my driveway and tackled it head on!

[BMWST?]

wet clay is slippery even for knobby tyres,i reckon you need some gravel on the bald bits

[mossy1200]

My crash has left me in a challenging financial situation and thanks to our buddies at ACC I am many years away from being able to afford to live anywhere else on the income that I now earn post accident.

So no, not an option. I am lucky to live where I do for what I pay, and house my two dogs while renting. You can't even get a tiny unit in the suburbs for what I pay and to be honest this house is one of the only things that pulled me through a messy few years.

Here for at least another 4 years plus again so it's about time I got over this fear of my driveway and tackled it head on!

Any area down the bottom for a bike shed? No nearby friends with garage space?
Don't blame you for the reluctance with drive. Its not the kind of thing I would enjoy unless on an adventure or motard bike.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Go get a heap of old potatoe sacks and stake them into the ground over the clay bits. Sorted.

[skippa1]

As a few others have said, walk it and pick the line and approach. No amount of advice will rectify the poor traction you get on wet clay though.......pick a line that keeps you out of the path of wet clay.
i am not sure how your neighbours/landlord would view a bunch of KBers working on the driveway but a chat with them and a working bee would/could make a huge difference. I dont know where you live but i am sure there are those on here that will help.

[skippa1]

Go get a heap of old potatoe sacks and stake them into the ground over the clay bits. Sorted.
Or potatoe sacks

i will help eat the potatoes

[Motu]

Go get a heap of old potatoe sacks and stake them into the ground over the clay bits. Sorted.

Stupid old fart - potatoes don't come in sacks these days, they are too useful, so we get paper sacks instead.

It's the bike - I used to live up a driveway from hell, I used to drive the dump truck from work up it and would slam my head into the roof. Huge holes and covered in ''rejects'' - kumara sized and shaped rocks. I used to ride my Stornello up there in 2nd gear, the bike leaping and bouncing all over the place, lots of fun. On my CB750 I was in hell, it was all over the place,no grip front or rear, wandering all over the drive expecting to crash at any moment. Sometimes there was a bull on the drive, he didn't worry me on the Stornello, he scared me shitless on the CB750.

Sounds like you love your R6 (what's that?) but it's the wrong bike for your time and place. Your confidence will improve vastly if you move to something else.

[Katiepie]

Sounds like you love your R6 (what's that?) but it's the wrong bike for your time and place. Your confidence will improve vastly if you move to something else.

With all respect, I didn't buy my bike for the soul purpose of riding up and down my driveway. I brought it for the road, where I feel confident on it and have learned a lot over the past few years about how to improve on my riding and how I feel on the bike up and down country and commuting. I am however the first to admit I lack many skills (gravel included) and have a huge amount to learn on two wheels. Hence the reason I am here asking for advice from more experienced riders.

No - the driveway is not ideal.
No I can not afford to move from where I live - so the driveway stays, so do I.
Yes, I am trying to get options for improving the surface of the driveway, but as someone who can't personally afford to chip in the any costs it is highly unlikely that it is going to change any time soon.

I guess over summer I got so used to where all the gravel was, where the bald parts were, where the tyre ruts were formed and where best to place my bike. Over winter it changes, and every few days the gravel is moved and deeper in new places, larger gravel in unfamiliar places, and always rakes back up and over the clay parts only to wash away or push away with a couple of cars up and down and nothing gets compacted it. It simply gets "racked" with the quad bike and it's always a bit of a "kinder surprise" as to where to put my tyres when I come home from work when the chap next door has been working on it.

If I can arrange some more appropriate material from work and come to an arrangement with the neighbour who owns up here, then at least I will be able to focus on my confidence without so much change all the time after a days rain or heavy traffic use.

Really appreciate all the advice folks, will be taking it all on board and practising every chance I get. Makes me well grumpy with myself as I commuted on my R6 every day this year until the middle of May when I started to struggle on the drive in the car and almost lost it on the bike. So it's definitely a confidence thing as my biggest block right now. But determined to work through it.

[FJRider]

Really appreciate all the advice folks, will be taking it all on board and practising every chance I get. Makes me well grumpy with myself as I commuted on my R6 every day this year until the middle of May when I started to struggle on the drive in the car and almost lost it on the bike. So it's definitely a confidence thing as my biggest block right now. But determined to work through it.

At least you have a light R6. Just think how much fun (not) you would have on an FJ1200 ... :innocent:

[skippa1]

With all respect, I didn't buy my bike for the soul purpose of riding up and down my driveway. I brought it for the road, where I feel confident on it and have learned a lot over the past few years about how to improve on my riding and how I feel on the bike up and down country and commuting. I am however the first to admit I lack many skills (gravel included) and have a huge amount to learn on two wheels. Hence the reason I am here asking for advice from more experienced riders.

No - the driveway is not ideal.
No I can not afford to move from where I live - so the driveway stays, so do I.
Yes, I am trying to get options for improving the surface of the driveway, but as someone who can't personally afford to chip in the any costs it is highly unlikely that it is going to change any time soon.

I guess over summer I got so used to where all the gravel was, where the bald parts were, where the tyre ruts were formed and where best to place my bike. Over winter it changes, and every few days the gravel is moved and deeper in new places, larger gravel in unfamiliar places, and always rakes back up and over the clay parts only to wash away or push away with a couple of cars up and down and nothing gets compacted it. It simply gets "racked" with the quad bike and it's always a bit of a "kinder surprise" as to where to put my tyres when I come home from work when the chap next door has been working on it.

If I can arrange some more appropriate material from work and come to an arrangement with the neighbour who owns up here, then at least I will be able to focus on my confidence without so much change all the time after a days rain or heavy traffic use.

Really appreciate all the advice folks, will be taking it all on board and practising every chance I get. Makes me well grumpy with myself as I commuted on my R6 every day this year until the middle of May when I started to struggle on the drive in the car and almost lost it on the bike. So it's definitely a confidence thing as my biggest block right now. But determined to work through it.
Theres been a few hinting on here they would help with the surface....take em up on it. You might be surprised, some on here may have access to some suitable materials for nix, shit there may eveb be a grader driver that has some work programmed close by (might be a bit hopeful on that one but you dont know until you ask)

[jellywrestler]

Theres been a few hinting on here they would help with the surface....take em up on it. You might be surprised, some on here may have access to some suitable materials for nix, shit there may eveb be a grader driver that has some work programmed close by (might be a bit hopeful on that one but you dont know until you ask)

there's a prison just up the road from Kaitepie's place, maybe she could get a work detail of two, to help, just bake a few recreational tobacco muffins and some cakes with files in em and they'll love you long time for it.

[nerrrd]

Probably completely useless in this application but the po-tay-toe sack idea reminded me i'd seen this stuff somewhere, for holding gravel in place I think:

http://www.naturalpaving.co.nz/portfolio-item/farm-grade/

[Crasherfromwayback]

there's a prison just up the road from Kaitepie's place, maybe she could get a work detail of two, to help, just bake a few recreational tobacco muffins and some cakes with files in em and they'll love you long time for it.

Took me GF there for a job interview the other day. Think she's got the job. Maybe get her to convince some of the locals they need to help out to score some brownie points!

[Katiepie]

Best I get some practice in soon then during these wetter months - the cold Kiwi is less than 3 months away and the new site entry getting up to the top of the site has got me fucked! Provided much entertainment for many on my last arrival with 4 guys to hold my bike up while I worked my way up to the top of the site.

Will make sure I get the bike out and back up a couple of times this weekend if there is not too much rain to wash the grave away. Will be stepping through much of what you have all said here. Cheers everyone.

[Reckless]

It's not you it's the drive. Clay is shit to ride on with street tyres.

There it is in one :clap:
I know your drive and your bike :P
Dont let this sap your confidence a hell of a lot of us would shit ourselves (or be very apprehensive on your drive) in the slick clay with the steering leverage on your R6.

You mention The Cold Kiwi and I can tell you the difference in getting the SV1000 out of there and the Bonnie on wet grass/Snow/Clay/Mud is huge just because of the riding and bar position. Your R6 is worse then the SV in riding position, steering leverage, plus your rider Muscle and leg length. Which all have nothing to do with your ability.

There is fuck all you can do with an R6 on bare clay to be honest. As I ride road and dirt a lot, the only advice I an give you is to stay OFF the front brake as much as you can. As soon as you touch it, it will brake traction on road tyres and slick clay.
So here is what we do on the dirt bikes at say ThunderX on a steep slick clay hill (and there is plenty in winter).
Downhill
We stay off the front brake and trial the back brake as much as we can. Often locking the rear completely (like the sea anchor theory in a boat) all the way down the hill and letting the front free wheel. Keeps the rear in line while letting the front have as much traction as we can give it. Totally out of control but staying upright is more important than going slow at that time. And that only applies to the straight bits. On a corner your mostly trying to free wheel the rear with only as much rear brake applied so it doesn't loss traction. Usually only using the front brake to hold the bike when stationary.
Up hill similar.
Apply as much drive as you can to the rear with no front brake. Momentum is your best friend in this case. Anticipate turns usually turning early to accommodate the initial skid before the bike starts turning.

Downhill will be scarier and harder. Look ahead and Pick your line out of the bare clay rut, Most Prob up the center on the gravel bit the cars don't skid away or the inside of the rut.

But in saying the above your pushing shit uphill Sunshine, with your drive and a light sport bike on road rubber you really need to try and do something about the drive. The cars alone (neighbor above you) will be skidding and spitting all the good stuff off the top in this weather and screw up any remedial work you do for the bike.
The only real fix is to pour grooved concrete (Brush and groove it while wet) you only need one track but wide enough for your bike to get traction on the worst bits.

If you get really stuck Crashers idea of sacks is good but even a layer/carpet of Pine needles in the rut on a slick bit might get you up and into your garage?

Sorry Sunshine, try those tricks but not good news but unless your landlord will do something about the drive your a bit stuffed.

Best I can Advise???

[Katiepie]

I know your drive and your bike :P

Cheers ears.

And you saw my driveway 4 years ago. Add to that 4 years of no maintenance other that moving the chunky gravel around over the hard clay, more cars living up here now, and me with less confidence than before = not doing so well on mastering this driveway. And yes, the cars slide when going up the drive now after rain with little traction.

Work in progress... will keep working at it (it being me and my skills and confidence)

[jellywrestler]

Best I get some practice in soon then during these wetter months - the cold Kiwi is less than 3 months away and the new site entry getting up to the top of the site has got me fucked! Provided much entertainment for many on my last arrival with 4 guys to hold my bike up while I worked my way up to the top of the site.

Will make sure I get the bike out and back up a couple of times this weekend if there is not too much rain to wash the grave away. Will be stepping through much of what you have all said here. Cheers everyone.

work is happening at the site to improve access, the fire is taking up too much camping room versus how many people use it, it's being moved to a spot that doesn't gooble up tent sites, the marquee is moving closer to the hill, and there's a road being made available to get up to the top.
being a new site no-one knew where to go last year, and some roade around a fair bit looking for a spot, that should settle down soon.
I am also going to suggest to the club they have recommended road bike areas. it's a character site, but with that character some but only some of the access is a little harder.

[Akzle]

best advice is keep both front and rear brakes slightly on,

have to disagree my man. While trailing you brakes will keep you slow, i think she'd be more likely to grab a handful if panicked.

Learn to skid.

[Maha]

The worst bit about this is, the constant cleaning of a beautiful bike.

[Akzle]

Where to start…….
Roading gravel is relatively cheap so my starting point would be to find some nice friendly Kiwibikers with access to a trailer, a decent tow vehicle and some spades..

hwey my fuckwn driveway needs doing too :whistle:

[koi]

ignore advice to get a new bike- that's not the ideal way to solve the problem as you (presumably) like your current one and it's better to adjust your skill to get past the issue. it's silly to buy a whole new bike just for the sake of getting up and down a driveway which can easily be solved through much better methods

idk what the driveway looks like in terms of stones and stuff but maybe get rid of any really big ones if there are any and consider putting something on the clay to like "dry" it, maybe a little bit dirt, sand, pine tree leaves or something just to stop it from being so slippery??

Even some thick rope put across the width of the driveway every foot or so to provide a "ledge" for your wheel to prevent it from rolling when you're going up/down the driveway might help to prevent you from wildly skidding out of control and give you time to stop and collect yourself halfway through or something like that

[awayatc]

Rope .?
cod ends and bits of ripped up trawlnets would work a treat....
and would last surprisingly well ....
contact some fisho's at wharf ....
tons of ripped up trawls get thrown out all the time....

[Bald Eagle]

Hi Pie

Had a chat with Ratti about your issue with the drive ( she's seen it so knows what it's like ) she suggested you get hold of Ross or Stu at twobaldbikers.co.nz and get one if them to come and do a site visit, give you tips and help about how to beat it.

[rocketman1]

Appreciate any help in advance. :([/QUOTE]

Katiepie

Seem like it has all been said , some good advice here BUT.............
An R6 is not a good dirt bike end of story. Great Road bike , for which it was built. I would not like to ride it up and down your driveway.
Unless you change your bike or driveway I can see it ending in tears.
You master the driveway for say 50 or 100 rides but it will catch you out eventually.
If you cannot change the driveway, change your bike, buy a adventure style bike. With adventure style tyres.
There are some very good dual purpose bikes out there that will handle your drive, a peice of cake, and ride the road just about as well as the R6.

Good luck

Horses for courses.

M

[Gremlin]

We've got it all wrong... she just needs some knobblies!

<img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii97/nuxiong_92/image-1.jpg", width=700>

Of course, this would screw the 99.99% of her other riding, but she's not asking for advice on road riding :msn-wink:

Ok ok... I'm going :dodge:

[FJRider]

The worst bit about this is, the constant cleaning of a beautiful bike.

Cleaning IS womens work .. :cool:

[caseye]

Hmmmmmmm!.
Go on Pie, give those bald fuckers a call, te he he. if they know Ratti, they'll be can do boys.
I'm not brave enough to suggest you change bikes and I'm pretty certain after all you and it have been through, that it's not an option either, but, comes a time when needs must.
A short dirty with a bit of punch might be just the thing?????
Problem with that, is this, you'll make the change and that bloody driveway will spit you and it anyway, just so you know who's boss.

[FJRider]

We've got it all wrong... she just needs some knobblies!



Another Honda ... ;)

And friends ... :whistle:

[Katiepie]

I'm not brave enough to suggest you change bikes and I'm pretty certain after all you and it have been through, that it's not an option either

Bingo - those who don't know me will not understand why getting rid of my R6 is not an option I am willing to look at (especially when I brought it for the very purpose of commuting on it and travelling up and down country which I do with much satisfaction).

Thanks Baldy - will do. Know those lovely gents will have a few tricks up their sleeves to help me handle it a little better.

And thanks to Spyda for coming around last week to check out the drive in person, in it's current state - have a few things to work on from that too.

Appreciate all the genuine advice on here, it will actually help me a heck of a lot.

And the R6 stays, just sayin - non-negotiable. Got that bike til she dies a natural death this time, no cliff jumping though.

[george formby]

I guess it's all about attitude and the length of your legs.
This bloke could help.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ThO-w9SCM8I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nuckin futs.
Ya gotta keep on gettin on..
Get some oggy knobs, crash bars & Distanzias and get stuck in.

[haydes55]

Second gear, feet off the pegs, ride the clutch, keep revs up and let the rear wheel spin up. If you can get used to the rear wheel squirreling around under you. If the rear has broken traction, chances are, your front won't.

I normally ride gravel on my Z1000 with my feet on the pegs. But if it's difficult, steep and slippery, I'll basically do a skid the entire way up with my feet out to stabalise me.

Sent from my HTC Desire 310 using Tapatalk

[Latte]

Probably a bigger can of worms but "walking the bike" maybe? - walk beside it as you "ride" it up the drive, feathering clutch.

[Maha]

The CB1300 had no trouble with dirt/tree root and the odd rock somewhere around the East Cape, once on this downward road I had no alternative but to keep going until I reached the bottom, hoping there was a turn-around area, luckily there was. Being two-up made it all the more interesting, thank goodness it was dry.

The photo doesn't really show the steepness.

[Mom]

Hi KP. All of this stuff above is great advice and will help you negotiate that shit of a driveway of yours. I reckon though you are undoing yourself by over thinking it. I really understand the fear you have of falling off your bike, it is embarrassing at the best of times. Trust me, I have gone to ground so many times of recent years, all at slow speed. I blame a lack of leg length for the most part for me.

You obviously, have a completely different set of physical things to consider. One thing occurs to me though sweetie, go and talk to your doctor about what damage you could do to that neck of yours if you do happen to topple off at slow speed. I am picking none. Find that out, then release the fear of injury. You generally wont hurt yourself too much at slow speed anyway, well apart from your ego, I gave up worrying about that a long time ago.

I hope you can get your head in a place that you can ride your driveway. Feel that fear love, and do it anyway. Take everyone who has offered help up on their offers and beat the gravel.

If there is anyone that can do that it is you!

Much love.

[caseye]

Hi KP. All of this stuff above is great advice and will help you negotiate that shit of a driveway of yours. I reckon though you are undoing yourself by over thinking it. I really understand the fear you have of falling off your bike, it is embarrassing at the best of times. Trust me, I have gone to ground so many times of recent years, all at slow speed. I blame a lack of leg length for the most part for me.

You obviously, have a completely different set of physical things to consider. One thing occurs to me though sweetie, go and talk to your doctor about what damage you could do to that neck of yours if you do happen to topple off at slow speed. I am picking none. Find that out, then release the fear of injury. You generally wont hurt yourself too much at slow speed anyway, well apart from your ego, I gave up worrying about that a long time ago.

I hope you can get your head in a place that you can ride your driveway. Feel that fear love, and do it anyway. Take everyone who has offered help up on their offers and beat the gravel.

If there is anyone that can do that it is you!

Much love.

Wot my Mom said including "much love'

[BMWST?]

And thanks to Spyda for coming around last week to check out the drive in person, in it's current state - have a few things to work on from that too.


what needs to be done.I am happy to front up with a trailer full of gravel and a spade and a shovel and a rake.Just tell me what kind of material to collect from the quarry (Just a normal trailer quantity)

[george formby]

Oh, Katiepie has long legs. Mmmm.
My comment about engine bars, distanzias ect was only a bit tongue in cheek. If you worry less about your bike you get a bit more commitment. Your going slowly so a step off will be ok for you and the bike will just lie on it's farkles. Waggling your legs around and gassing it is a last resort. The bike controls you and once your momentum stops it's all over.
Fingers crossed the KB work crew can help but still keep those engine bars in mind, easy way to stop a lot of heartache.

[gunrunner]

U need to talk to your guys at work , had a similar prob with my driveway when on vmax . They put a hardened compound underneath and rolled it when watered it and it set like concrete , I think it had a mix of that and builders mix in it . P.S your neighbors a dick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FROSTY]

katiepie-Im not being a smart alec here. Given its a shit of a drive and you have a shit of a Landlord.Combined with a health issue that gives good reason to be worried about falling off Wouldn't the best solution be simply to move house?

[nodrog]

katiepie-Im not being a smart alec here. Given its a shit of a drive and you have a shit of a Landlord.Combined with a health issue that gives good reason to be worried about falling off Wouldn't the best solution be simply to move house?

stop being sensible.

[5ive]

katiepie-Im not being a smart alec here. Given its a shit of a drive and you have a shit of a Landlord.Combined with a health issue that gives good reason to be worried about falling off Wouldn't the best solution be simply to move house?

Already asked/answered:


My crash has left me in a challenging financial situation and thanks to our buddies at ACC I am many years away from being able to afford to live anywhere else on the income that I now earn post accident.

So no, not an option. I am lucky to live where I do for what I pay, and house my two dogs while renting. You can't even get a tiny unit in the suburbs for what I pay and to be honest this house is one of the only things that pulled me through a messy few years.

Here for at least another 4 years plus again so it's about time I got over this fear of my driveway and tackled it head on!

[granstar]

Bottom line , relax.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEGhw_xPWq8

[R650R]

Wet clay is nasty on anything regardless of size or tyres. Skill doesn't help much with random sledging and slides on stuff that slippery.
I'd be sweet talking your boss into tipping off leftovers up your driveway... Or any mates with dairy farms, they spend big limestoning tanker tracks.
Whats the edge/drains like? Often any original gravel collects in there nicely. Twice I've been thwarted by inch thick sheets of ice in Kaweka 4WD tracks while on the DR. I ice skate backwards with my legs spread into the ditch, turn bike around then ride down hill through the ditch/water table to get down the hill.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0NXe246IFdvYXpZYmhzMUhmZzA/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0NXe246IFdvdzZWZDRpdGdmeEk/view?usp=sharing

[Katiepie]

It's been a challenging winter, but my bike is now back on the road with better tread. I have family down helping me while I work 2 jobs and juggle my dogs as well. So, I have had no choice but to commute on my bike the past week as my mum has needed the car while I'm gone 16 hours a day.

Long story short - I have been tackling the driveway head on with no hesitations, knowing that I can't stuff this up. And we have been getting some torrential rain these past few days and it certainly is in quite a state.

But I am absolutely over the moon to report I have stayed upright and allowed the bike to slide and move below me, worked a lot of good revs and a very steady throttle, and where I'm looking.

I think a huge part of this for me is getting over the huge fear of this, and also not having a choice not to do it.

White bike is now a beautiful messy brown, but feeling much much better about something I am in little control of.

Right - this rain can ease up now :)

Once again - thanks everyone for your great advice. I will be doing my best to resolve some driveway issues in the future, but for now your advice on best approach to riding this has been very beneficial indeed. Much appreciated.

[sels1]

White bike is now a beautiful messy brown, but feeling much much better about something I am in little control of.
Go Pie. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, someone famous once said :)

[Tazz]

Go Pie. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, someone famous once said :)

Neil Patrick Harris, while sipping herbal tea and riding a small tiger from Sydney to London I believe.

[jellywrestler]

It's been a challenging winter, but my bike is now back on the road with better tread. I have family down helping me while I work 2 jobs and juggle my dogs as well. So, I have had no choice but to commute on my bike the past week as my mum has needed the car while I'm gone 16 hours a day.

Long story short - I have been tackling the driveway head on with no hesitations, knowing that I can't stuff this up. And we have been getting some torrential rain these past few days and it certainly is in quite a state.

But I am absolutely over the moon to report I have stayed upright and allowed the bike to slide and move below me, worked a lot of good revs and a very steady throttle, and where I'm looking.

I think a huge part of this for me is getting over the huge fear of this, and also not having a choice not to do it.

White bike is now a beautiful messy brown, but feeling much much better about something I am in little control of.

Right - this rain can ease up now :)

Once again - thanks everyone for your great advice. I will be doing my best to resolve some driveway issues in the future, but for now your advice on best approach to riding this has been very beneficial indeed. Much appreciated. i knew you'd lick it and often it's by being forced into doing it regularly, nothing wrong with a bike slipping and sliding under you, as long as you know that you're onto it. still need to double check ya set up one day though.

[Metastable]

Bottom line , relax.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEGhw_xPWq8

Canadian Show! :D

Hopefully you have sorted out those challenges..... they don't seem easy. I haven't read all the posts, however one thing that helps me on the wider (and steep) trails is to do a slight zig-zag (think more of a weave) .... it might not be a good idea in your case... really depends on what the driveway looks like. Weaving up allows you to miss the worst sections. Also standing up helps a lot.... although at first it seems intimidating. Pick your path ahead of time and follow it... eyes up.

Hope you don't need any of this advice anymore.