Ummm... Maori drivers not issued tickets?

[PrincessBandit]

Did I hear correctly on the news that Maori drivers can avoid a ticket for some offences and instead attend courses aimed at rectifying their law breaking; and that the media's reference to this being a race issue was described as mischievous?
Feel free to tell me I totally misheard it all!

ps was on TV 1 news this evening.

[Akzle]

any human can avoid 'tickets'

a 'driver' is legislated for, and has certain obligations under their contract with the crown.

[Mike.Gayner]

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/exclusive-police-told-not-ticket-unlicenced-maori-drivers-in-south-auckland-6339517

WTF I came into this thread to tell OP what an idiot he is, because surely this can't be as it seems......but indeed it is. Trying to reduce offending by not reporting the offending as offending. What. The. Fuck.

edit: Also the brain trust at NZ Police can't even spell "licence". No, geniuses, it's not "liscence".

[Delerium]

Good job on completely losing the faith of the public nz police.

This is just flat out racism. No other word for it.

[JimO]

its all whiteys fault

[bogan]

paging BanditBandit...

[mossy1200]

Two laws and standards has always been the long term goal. Its not fair to tax a minority group equally in NZ.:calm:

Sounds like a registration ACC thread again.

[Swoop]

................
312822

[Oakie]

Before you get your collective panties in a knot ... it's not a get out of jail free card because you are indigenous. Comes with conditions just like this did ... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146632-Okay-how-about-this

[caseye]

Did I hear correctly on the news that Maori drivers can avoid a ticket for some offences and instead attend courses aimed at rectifying their law breaking; and that the media's reference to this being a race issue was described as mischievous?
Feel free to tell me I totally misheard it all!

ps was on TV 1 news this evening.

Nah PB, you heard correctly and the tragedy is that the Maori fella on the telly is a homey from my hood who bloody well knows better.
They (NZ POlice HQ) have been found out policing a racial problem by attempting to be nice where anyone else gets the big stick.
The idea, could work, if applied to all equally, the tragedy is, that in being target specific they are making this a race issue and here we are crying wolf.
Why not apply the idea to all who get caught driving without a licence?
Wait up, I sat my licence's I earned the money to pay for them,I value them, because they allow me to legally earn my living and to ride, drive, skid anywhere in this country without interference by our Police.
Why then should Anyone else get different treatment to me or the hundreds of thousands of other licenced drivers who are not and will not be given the same sort of treatment.
So go ahead NZ Police , continue to foster the them and us, put us all back another hundred years you fucking morons.
When are we going to simply stop the BS?
No More Free Money, for anyone colour or creed.
No more handouts for having kids by the bushel.
One bloody Law for all.
One bloody penalty, applied to all.
How hard could it be?

Oakie, one coppers idea, something he tried to do as often as possible, ask him if the recipients had to be any particular colour? Theres the test, the documents we've all seen for this thing, says "they do"

[FJRider]

Before you get your collective panties in a knot ... it's not a get out of jail free card because you are indigenous. Comes with conditions ...

It's about getting unlicensed drivers legal. Whats the bet those unlicensed drivers are driving a vehicle with no WOF/Rego ... which is not part of this scheme ...

But it is just another version of Complience ... of which many of us (that kept our lips zipped after being stopped by plod) have felt the benefit of ...

[caseye]

It's about getting unlicensed drivers legal. Whats the bet those unlicensed drivers are driving a vehicle with no WOF/Rego ... which is not part of this scheme ...

But it is just another version of Complience ... of which many of us (that kept our lips zipped after being stopped by plod) have felt the benefit of ...

Quite possible, but then we believed that our PC's had this thing called "discretion" and they were actually allowed to use it.
We didn't know as we do now, that there was an actual document that says "if they're Maori , don't ticket them, use diversion" I note that if they do nothing the fine does still come their way.
I'd wager a lot, that very few have received the ticket, no matter the actual outcome, lost in translation perhaps?

So if in trying to get compliance they come across unregistered unwarranted vehicles what do they do then? We see that every Thursday night on road cops, ah well, youse fellas can drive this dangerous heap of crap home if you give us your word. Yeah Right!

[FJRider]

Quite possible, but then we believed that our PC's had this thing called "discretion" and they were actually allowed to use it.
We didn't know as we do now, that there was an actual document that says "if they're Maori , don't ticket them, use diversion" I note that if they do nothing the fine does still come their way.
I'd wager a lot, that very few have received the ticket, no matter the actual outcome, lost in translation perhaps?

So if in trying to get compliance they come across unregistered unwarranted vehicles what do they do then? We see that every Thursday night on road cops, ah well, youse fellas can drive this dangerous heap of crap home if you give us your word. Yeah Right!

Did you miss this bit in the link .. ??


If after that Iwi and community support the driver has not complied within two months, a $400 ticket is then issued.

It is not a get off the fine ... no strings attached.

And nothing in the scheme to stop the cop attaching a pink/green sticker to the windscreen either.

[mossy1200]

I bet a fair amount isn't just unlicensed but also breach of license conditions. The way its reads to me is it covers license breach offences also. LAMS ??

[Delerium]

Did you miss this bit in the link .. ??



It is not a get off the fine ... no strings attached.

And nothing in the scheme to stop the cop attaching a pink/green sticker to the windscreen either.

irrelevant. Its a different basis for a different group because of race. The policy is racist. The end.

[AllanB]

Racist shit. PC shit. Fuck it all. Stuff the lot of us into a big blender and spit us out in the same colour. Sorted.

[Virago]

Racist shit. PC shit. Fuck it all. Stuff the lot of us into a big blender and spit us out in the same colour. Sorted.

Except the Asians. I don't want to lose the ability to drive.

[mossy1200]

Racist shit. PC shit. Fuck it all. Stuff the lot of us into a big blender and spit us out in the same colour. Sorted.

Great theory except then we would all come out average drivers. No great drivers and no poor drivers.
Im not ready to accept im just an average driver yet.
That's a no to blending down my awesomeness.:eek:

[FJRider]

irrelevant. Its a different basis for a different group because of race. The policy is racist. The end.

Two bits you might have missed ...


And police say they have the discretion to do the same for non-Maori drivers, but that's not spelt in the document.


The police position remains that the document is simply a guideline and not an instruction to staff, and is not about race.

No data on numbers dealt with under this scheme ... or the success rate ... (has anybody actually asked) .. :blank:


Or ... who the (as yet un-named) Police sources the article was based on were .... :blank:

But it made the news ... so I guess it must be true .... :blank:

[caseye]

Did you miss this bit in the link .. ??
Nope, see. I note that if they do nothing the fine does still come their way.


It is not a get off the fine ... no strings attached.
I did say I'd wager a lot of money that I believe more would never see the fine than do.

And nothing in the scheme to stop the cop attaching a pink/green sticker to the windscreen either.
Correct and as also stated we see evidence of those stickers and warrants being blatantly ignored, most often when it's 90% of those stopped who are what race? on Thursday night cop shows, no wonder the Aussies think it's a comedy programme when it shows over there.

I'm not hating I'm just saying what we are told and what is being done are 2 totally different things, Because it's made the news doesn't mean it has to be true, but written words that are not refuted by Mr Haumaha ( I know how to spell it, cause his mumma taught me at school) are the instigator of what I'd say on the face of it are racist policies.
No matter that policies intention, this is how it looks.
An you know what, if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck.
It's a bloody duck!
1 Rule of law for us all, is this too much to ask?

[jellywrestler]

i'm a sparky, they tell me at the manakau polytech the maoris get an extra hour to sit their exams too.....

[Stylo]

i'm a sparky, they tell me at the manakau polytech the maoris get an extra hour to sit their exams too.....

I wonder how Rastus would have handled this one ?

Can of worms in the making here, 'You can't give me a ticket, I'll have you know I'm 1/10th Maori for heavens sake officer!'

Is this the case of 'one rule for us all, but another rule for the Maoris ?'

Slippery slope and I hope not. Also the start of the shit journalism and bad reporting we're going to have to get used to. Not to mention the daily spelling and grammatical mistakes.

John Campbell will be grinning .....

[Crasherfromwayback]

Two bits you might have missed ...
:

Exactly.


i'm a sparky, they tell me at the manakau polytech the maoris get an extra hour to sit their exams too.....

Who is they?

[Kickaha]

Who is they?
The voices in his head

[Rhys]

The voices in his head

Do you hear them as well

[Ulsterkiwi]

i'm a sparky, they tell me at the manakau polytech the maoris get an extra hour to sit their exams too.....

Perhaps chinese whispers are to blame for what "they" told you. There are any number of reasons why a student would be afforded extra time to sit a written examination. Race is never one of them.

We could argue all day and all night about the wisdom of this policy. I think the most frightening thing of all is that each story which emerges concerning road policing policy shows those at the top of the pile seem to be incapable of learning anything. Surely successful policing also includes the support of the community at large? Repeated PR doozies do nothing but piss off the very people these guys are supposed to be providing a service for.
There is a fair possibility the document under scrutiny only formalises a practice which has quietly been implemented for some time before now. Some evidence to show why it has been or might in the future be a successful policy would have been useful to present at the same time as the document.

There has been mention of Road Cops and the softly softly approach demonstrated on this show. A perfect example of a PR cluster fuck, prime time TV should be an opportunity to show the public that dangerous drivers and vehicles are actively taken off the road, not sent on their way with a smile and wave.

[ElCoyote]

Hang about, why are we even discussing this, Maurice Williamson foisted upon us a citizen$ identity card cleverly disguised as a LIFETIME licen$e that was guaranteed to cut the road toll to zero and catch those who drove without a license. Sadly the road toll is still trending upward and it appears that in south Auckland you don't need a licen$e at all. On ya Maurice.;)

[swarfie]

There has been mention of Road Cops and the softly softly approach demonstrated on this show. A perfect example of a PR cluster fuck, prime time TV should be an opportunity to show the public that dangerous drivers and vehicles are actively taken off the road, not sent on their way with a smile and wave.

+1 on that. I change channel now when that program comes on due to the fact my blood pressure starts to rise, when some soft cocked cop lets some arse-wipe go with a warning when they should be taken OFF THE ROAD. Or at the end of the program where they tell us that the so-in-so got a slap over the wrist with a wet lettuce leaf by the court system.:angry2:

[Tazz]

Before you get your collective panties in a knot ... it's not a get out of jail free card because you are indigenous. Comes with conditions just like this did ... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146632-Okay-how-about-this

Yep. Other than it being race specific I think it's a step in the right direction.

[FlangMasterJ]

http://i.imgur.com/eZOofxx.jpg

[5150]

Kia Ora Officer. White is the new Black.. :shifty:

[Trade_nancy]

Heard the head copper in the area on morning radio today...saying he makes no apology. Does not see the sense in trying to get money from fines from people who have no dough. OK..why does it need to be race-based? Anyone who is broke should be eligible.
Also - if we say this is racist (I do)...we also need to consider it as "placist",,,given only this South Auckland area is receiving this treatment. Are the Maori or others in Invercargill , Gore (OK forget that) or Wairoa not equal citizens?

[Bassmatt]

If stopped I am now Maori.

[oldrider]

What's the bet if they don't have a drivers licence their car wont be registered or have a warrant or be insured - are all those things only for Pakeha's too? :Police:

[Banditbandit]

paging BanditBandit...

Yeah yeah .. just catching up ..

If that's what the cops are doing then hell, I certainly do not support that at all ... the law is the law ... and one law for all ...




It's about getting unlicensed drivers legal. Whats the bet those unlicensed drivers are driving a vehicle with no WOF/Rego ... which is not part of this scheme ...

But it is just another version of Complience ... of which many of us (that kept our lips zipped after being stopped by plod) have felt the benefit of ...

Yes - why does it need to be ethnicity-based??? Driving has bugger all to do with ethnicity ... good or bad ...



Heard the head copper in the area on morning radio today...saying he makes no apology. Does not see the sense in trying to get money from fines from people who have no dough. OK..why does it need to be race-based? Anyone who is broke should be eligible.

Yes, exactly - apply it across the board.


Also - if we say this is racist (I do)...we also need to consider it as "placist",,,given only this South Auckland area is receiving this treatment. Are the Maori or others in Invercargill , Gore (OK forget that) or Wairoa not equal citizens?

Yes - all that too .. why apply it in Souf Dorkland only ??? There are people with bugger all money spread across the country ..

[wharekura]

i'm a sparky, they tell me at the manakau polytech the maoris get an extra hour to sit their exams too.....
So we should, so we can have it translated to Te Reo and have specific Kaumatua (a Maori Elder) to assist in dialect.

[wharekura]

Except the Asians. I don't want to lose the ability to drive.
and also not Saudi, otherwise misses can't pick me up from the pub...

[RDJ]

Of course it's racism. And of course the police spokesman stumbles trying to justify it. Then he further beclowns himself by claiming he doesn't see why people who don't have enough money to pay the fines should be punished, thereby exhibiting the classic bigotry of lesser expectations of a specific ethnic group. This is nonsense on discrimination stilts, and he is an idiot on mental crutches (assuming he believes what he's saying).

[JimO]

So we should, so we can have it translated to Te Reo and have specific Kaumatua (a Maori Elder) to assist in dialect.
so whats the maori word for electricity

[R650R]

Its a trap to raise fines revenue and heres why.
Just like when Contact emails your power bill way before its due its easy to forget to pay and nearly lose prompt payment discount.
Two months is the perfect trap for the procrastinators out there no matter what race, and chances are they are procrastinators if not got round to getting a license.

Remember the twats in Wellington said if you feel maori you are maori and whose going to look up someones family tree to contest it????
Can you imagine the phonecall.

Hi tribal elder its Johnno from northcomms here, we have a Rupert McBloomfield who says he's Ngati Porou. Can you call a meeting at the Marea and see who knows his whanau????


Soooooo what controversial report is coming out that they want a distraction for????

[Katman]

Soooooo what controversial report is coming out that they want a distraction for????

Where are we at with that TPPA business?

(Or maybe it's time for reinforcements in Iraq).

[Scuba_Steve]

If stopped I am now Maori.

Too right bro. I can vouch for you cuz

[Maha]

If stopped I am now Maori.

Ngati Pakeha?

[sidecar bob]

Anyone who is broke should be eligible.

It's Just like everything else that broke people get for free that "rich cunts" have to pay for.
Why stop at traffic fines?
What's the criteria for such favourable treatment, a Maori sounding middle name, or are they going to introduce a special racist ID card.

[RDJ]

It's Just like everything else that broke people get for free that "rich cunts" have to pay for.
Why stop at traffic fines?
What's the criteria for such favourable treatment, a Maori sounding middle name, or are they going to introduce a special racist ID card.

"They don't need no steenking card, they're not gringos" - from the movie, 'The Treasure of the Mangere Madre'

[Ntoxcated]

so whats the maori word for electricity

According to the New Zealand Electrical Code of Practice



Maori terms
From a Maori perspective, the term “earth” or Papatuanuku
translates as Earth Mother – the source of all energy. When aligning
this concept to the flow of electricity, a useful parallel can be made to
the 3-pin plug.


Electricity
Maori


Active (phase)
Spiritual element, active, tapu


Neutral
Physical element, neutral, noa


Earth
Mauri or life force derived from Papatuanuku or Earth Mother

[Bassmatt]

Ngati Pakeha?
what bro?, me and my cousies from Souf orkland dont dont now nuffin about that ngati shit

[Virago]

Here's the solution to the problem...

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/28475447/controversial-us-activist-i-definitely-am-not-white/

[FJRider]

Heard the head copper in the area on morning radio today...saying he makes no apology. Does not see the sense in trying to get money from fines from people who have no dough. OK..why does it need to be race-based? Anyone who is broke should be eligible.

Funnily enough ... Discretion that we are all are capable of getting ... is usually (your) attitude based. Not (your) race based.


Also - if we say this is racist (I do)...we also need to consider it as "placist",,,given only this South Auckland area is receiving this treatment. Are the Maori or others in Invercargill , Gore (OK forget that) or Wairoa not equal citizens?

Must be a South Auckland issue. I've got discretion a couple of times .... and I wasn't even asked which Iwi I belonged to ... ;)

[Virago]

Funnily enough ... Discretion that we are all are capable of getting ... is usually (your) attitude based. Not (your) race based...

So why does race need to be written into the guidelines?

[sidecar bob]

I'm just going to put a bottle of fake tan in the door pocket & spray it on my face when I get pulled up. Problem solved.

[swtfa]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/11407290_978270768873151_3181644573728583696_n.jpg ?oh=d05b6ef7ddad19f7d98154d7c934b7b7&oe=5626B5D6&__gda__=1445722872_d4d268371696ad385d55224572cf072 1

[mada]

They should scrap Police discretion for fines. Give every mofo who speeds 1km over the speed limit or is in breach of any part of their licence fines with no excuses.

Then we will have "one law for all". Who's keen?

[FJRider]

So why does race need to be written into the guidelines?

Old saying ... To those that only have a hammer in their tool kit ... every problem looks like a nail.

A while back ... there was a clamp down on unrestrained kids ... would you see this as persecution of parents/caregivers .. ??? ...

Issueing tickets to those with no money to pay ... wont help the Government coffers ... Chasing unpaid fines doesn't work well in some areas either.

Perhaps (some of) those ethnic groups that need help ... GET help. Like being assisted by people capable of helping.

But in the end ... if you or I do not take advantage of help offered ... the fines will continue to mount. Regardless of either of our ethnic backgrounds.

[awayatc]

Fuck me.....
a cop not giving a ticket?
never met one of those yet....
utopia, heaven, never never land....
Great news!
it's a start...... humans are re-entering the force......

[jellywrestler]

Exactly.



Who is they?
from a polytech tutor and personal friend

'The reason put forward is that Maori have a different learning pedagogy (style) than others and need the extra time to focus. When we have 230 free positions for Maori and Pacifica students in engineering and can only fill half of them I have different views on their study and learning styles.!'

[jellywrestler]

+1 on that. I change channel now when that program comes on due to the fact my blood pressure starts to rise, me too, but it's when i watch porn

[jellywrestler]

If stopped I am now Maori.

make sure you fit a small steering wheel then, so you can drive with your handcuffs on.

[jellywrestler]

It's Just like everything else that broke people get for free that "rich cunts" have to pay for.
Why stop at traffic fines?
What's the criteria for such favourable treatment, a Maori sounding middle name, or are they going to introduce a special racist ID card.

that's why the have the tattoos on their faces, barcodes for WINZ

[Virago]

...A while back ... there was a clamp down on unrestrained kids ... would you see this as persecution of parents/caregivers .. ??? ...

A rather nonsensical comparison. Was the campaign aimed (or not aimed) at specific demographics, or applied to all parents / caregivers?


...Issueing tickets to those with no money to pay ... wont help the Government coffers ... Chasing unpaid fines doesn't work well in some areas either..

So it's only Maori who can't afford to pay? Why should they be singled out for special favour?

[awayatc]

Racism.......?
never cut anybody yet who is pink and red inside......

[PrincessBandit]

I guess that if their goal is to reduce the "over representation of Maori in those statistics" then the obvious solution is to not ticket therefore they don't become a statistic. Voila! - over representation removed. And all the people said "aaaay-men". :puke:

[mada]

So why does race need to be written into the guidelines?


Probably because that document appears to be from an intervention that is specifically aimed at reducing Maori offending and victimisation "Turning the Tides" hence "Whanau Ora", above the brief line of writing shown on TV. The document looks like a rough draft given it has Maori as "maori" in one sentence and then spells licence three times as "Liscence" - no official policy or guideline would be so crude.

http://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/maori-police/turning-tide

It's no different to coming up with interventions that specifically target Asian victims of crime or offenders.

[Bassmatt]

what bro?, me and my cousies from Souf orkland dont dont now nuffin about that ngati shit

This is not what I wrote. Whats up with censoring posts and why?

[mada]

I guess that if their goal is to reduce the "over representation of Maori in those statistics" then the obvious solution is to not ticket therefore they don't become a statistic. Voila! - over representation removed. And all the people said "aaaay-men". :puke:

Actually the goal is "20 percent reduction in the proportion of casualties in fatal and serious crashes who are Maori" by 2018

http://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/maori-police/turning-tide

[PrincessBandit]

I'm just going to put a bottle of fake tan in the door pocket & spray it on my face when I get pulled up. Problem solved.

I'm going to plead "my grandfather was adopted - I always suspected he was part Maori"

[PrincessBandit]

Actually the goal is "20 percent reduction in the proportion of casualties in fatal and serious crashes who are Maori" by 2018

http://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/maori-police/turning-tide

Good luck with that - by letting them off when breaking the law, how does that help? Just askin'.

[RDJ]

Both amusing and ironic... watching the usual apologists doing contortions to try and prove this racist police policy is not a racist police policy

:laugh::laugh::laugh::bleh::bleh::bleh:

[bogan]

Yeah yeah .. just catching up ..

If that's what the cops are doing then hell, I certainly do not support that at all ... the law is the law ... and one law for all ...

But isn't getting off scott-free their peddle-doggie for learning about the laws?

[mada]

Good luck with that - by letting them off when breaking the law, how does that help? Just askin'.

Well the media hype says that. And that hype will probably encourage that, good job to the media!

This is not policy or law. Police Officers have their discretion as to whether a Maori or anyone else gets put onto such a programme. It's more likely that the guideline intent is if a person is high risk (which appears the case for Maori more likely than Pakeha) consider this alternative which they have the resources for.


If we truly want one law for all then we need to remove police discretion. The amount of times I've been waved through checkpoints, or if pulled over and let off for breech conditions, speeding, no WOF/Rego, more times than the fingers on my hands, helps I have a white face.

Where is the concern that Maori are more likely to be profiled for Police intervention because of their high risk??? How about their higher chances of being prosecuted for the same offence, and given a stiffer sentence. We keen for that?

Do we believe profiling for high risk is justified, but interventions to address high risk is not... ;)

[FJRider]

A rather nonsensical comparison. Was the campaign aimed (or not aimed) at specific demographics, or applied to all parents / caregivers?

Or ... was it aimed at a problem ... area .. ?? Plenty of poor whiteys getting discretion too ... but perhaps we leave them out of the equation and not mention it .... (doesnt help the ranters eh .. ??)


So it's only Maori who can't afford to pay? Why should they be singled out for special favour?

The only raceist was the officer that instigated the ([now] well) publicised campaign.

On the news on three tonight ... it was announced the wording in the campaign is to be re-worded. But I hope the perscution of chinese drivers will stop. OBVIOUSLY ... as it's race based issue.

[RDJ]

There is no need to look for complex explanations when the simple ones will do. Occam's Razor. The police spokesman says the police should go lighter on Maoris who break the traffic laws compared to people of any other race. Allegedly we hear they have the discretion to do so for all races, but that's not written down. So, bullshit. This is race-based policing in favor of "Maoris"* and just further erodes any respect the rest of the community have for the police.

* and of course, what is the side-of-the road definition of a Maori? imagine if the police had been told to go easy on white boy racers because they were white and had little money to spare for fines? There would be pearl-clutching in every marae... and court cases, because, RAAAAACISM. You really could not make this stuff believably up. But it is official Police Policy. And they are publicly doubling down on their racist stupidity with their press releases.

[nodrog]

I've just ordered a container of these if anybody is interested in purchasing one.

http://images.joke.co.uk/images/products/generic/medium/73543.jpg

[PrincessBandit]

I've just ordered a container of these if anybody is interested in purchasing one.
]

how come he has a white neck? He ain't one of them dissin' blackie minstrels is he?

[RDJ]

Yes, clearly driving without Blackface on is a Risk Factor. No doubt the next step is that ACC should reduce the levies for Maoris because to do otherwise, is unfair as they have less money to spare according to Wally Haumaha.

[nodrog]

how come he has a white neck? He ain't one of them dissin' blackie minstrels is he?

you may have to colour your neck in with some boot polish before wearing this costume.

[mada]

There is no need to look for complex explanations when the simple ones will do. Occam's Razor. The police spokesman says the police should go lighter on Maoris who break the traffic laws compared to people of any other race. Allegedly we hear they have the discretion to do so for all races, but that's not written down. So, bullshit. This is race-based policing in favor of "Maoris"* and just further erodes any respect the rest of the community have for the police.

* and of course, what is the side-of-the road definition of a Maori? imagine if the police had been told to go easy on white boy racers because they were white and had little money to spare for fines? There would be pearl-clutching in every marae... and court cases, because, RAAAAACISM. You really could not make this stuff believably up. But it is official Police Policy. And they are publicly doubling down on their racist stupidity with their press releases.

So do you believe Racial Profiling is justified? Or should police and other agencies not be able to use it and have to "treat everyone equally".

[Crasherfromwayback]

from a polytech tutor and personal friend

'The reason put forward is that Maori have a different learning pedagogy (style) than others and need the extra time to focus. When we have 230 free positions for Maori and Pacifica students in engineering and can only fill half of them I have different views on their study and learning styles.!'

Absolutely mate.

[mada]

I'm keen to hear.

My last work places, had specific guidelines and interventions on dealing with people from certain countries and "appearances", because they were considered "high risk".

Racism, yay or nay?

Justified if it makes country safer, yay or nay?

Should we have one law for all then, yay or nay?

[Ocean1]

I'm keen to hear.

My last work places, had specific guidelines and interventions on dealing with people from certain countries and "appearances", because they were considered "high risk".

Racism, yay or nay?

Justified if it makes country safer, yay or nay?

Should we have one law for all then, yay or nay?

Yes.

No.

Aye.

[mada]

Yes.

No.

Aye.


Brb, just going to let in a few thousand Malaysians, Nigerians, etc. :niceone:

[Ocean1]

Brb, just going to let in a few thousand Malaysians, Nigerians, etc. :niceone:

Fine, as long as they can support themselves, contribute to Kiwi society and are prepared to comply with NZ laws.

The time to decide what shape your rules should be is before they're enacted, not after.

[RDJ]

So do you believe Racial Profiling is justified? Or should police and other agencies not be able to use it and have to "treat everyone equally".

Are you trying for self-parody? is the law not supposed to be applied equally regardless of race? Sheesh.

[FJRider]

Brb, just going to let in a few thousand Malaysians, Nigerians, etc. :niceone:

Nah ... the Aussie government paid the skippers of the refugee boats to go the other way.

[RDJ]

"I can't emphasise enough to you that to single this out as a race issue in my view is totally mischievous," says Superintendent Haumaha.

Well, sir, I can't emphasise enough to you that to not identify this as a race issue, is totally destructive in terms of police credibility. If you can't understand that, you don't deserve to be appointed to the level of responsibility that you are. You are in fact, an apologist for racism and you should resign. But I doubt that you will. Despite the fact you clearly lack the insight to appreciate that you are providing favourable consideration to a specific ethnic group, that is not being extended to any other ethnic group = defines racist practice. Since you don't understand that, you are not fit for purpose.

[RDJ]

Here's an earlier "initiative"

Police and local iwi have come up with a strategy they hope will reduce the victimisation, offending and road fatalities and injuries among Maori in Rotorua.

The strategy (The Turning of the Tide - a Whanau Ora Crime and Crash Prevention Strategy), has been based on crime and crash plans drawn up by iwi across the country, Te Arawa among them, and was endorsed by iwi leaders nationwide.

Mr Marshall said the aims were for a 10 per cent decrease in first-time Maori offenders, a 20 per cent decrease in repeat Maori victims and offenders, a 25 per cent decrease in (non-traffic) apprehensions of Maori that are resolved by prosecution and a 20 per cent drop in Maori casualties in fatal and serious crashes.

Ngati Porou leader and Maori Focus Forum member Dr Apirana Mahuika believes the time is right for action.

"Most Maori who are victims or who are directly involved in crime are under 25 years of age. With our population of young people growing, if we do nothing, then even more Maori will end up in hospitals, police cells, courts and prisons. We can't let that happen."

- Rotorua Daily Post

How about a novel suggestion: why do self-identifying Maori try, just, not, breaking the law? or at least, breaking the law at no greater rate of incidence than the rest of us? That would get the decrease you are looking for, Ngati Porou leader and Maori Focus Forum leader Dr Mahuika...

[Katman]

How about a novel suggestion: why do self-identifying Maori try, just, not, breaking the law? or at least, breaking the law at no greater rate of incidence than the rest of us? That would get the decrease you are looking for, Ngati Porou leader and Maori Focus Forum leader Dr Mahuika...

Can't argue with that logic.

[TheDemonLord]

The moment that the Law explicitly treats someone different based solely on their race, is the moment that we have state enforced Racism.

I weep for the 60 years of progress that we have lost.

I only hope that SA will stop the ABs from touring there.

[awayatc]

Whinging fucks.....

is present situation ideal......?
if you want the outcome to be diffferent,
you could:

do more of the same,
or try something new...

[mada]

Are you trying for self-parody? is the law not supposed to be applied equally regardless of race? Sheesh.

So you are saying that old white lady driving her beemer in Rems should be stopped at same frequency as young brown driver out South, despite one having a much higher risk of causing a fatal accident?

:tugger:

[mada]

Here's an earlier "initiative"

Police and local iwi have come up with a strategy they hope will reduce the victimisation, offending and road fatalities and injuries among Maori in Rotorua.

The strategy (The Turning of the Tide - a Whanau Ora Crime and Crash Prevention Strategy), has been based on crime and crash plans drawn up by iwi across the country, Te Arawa among them, and was endorsed by iwi leaders nationwide.

Mr Marshall said the aims were for a 10 per cent decrease in first-time Maori offenders, a 20 per cent decrease in repeat Maori victims and offenders, a 25 per cent decrease in (non-traffic) apprehensions of Maori that are resolved by prosecution and a 20 per cent drop in Maori casualties in fatal and serious crashes.

Ngati Porou leader and Maori Focus Forum member Dr Apirana Mahuika believes the time is right for action.

"Most Maori who are victims or who are directly involved in crime are under 25 years of age. With our population of young people growing, if we do nothing, then even more Maori will end up in hospitals, police cells, courts and prisons. We can't let that happen."

- Rotorua Daily Post

How about a novel suggestion: why do self-identifying Maori try, just, not, breaking the law? or at least, breaking the law at no greater rate of incidence than the rest of us? That would get the decrease you are looking for, Ngati Porou leader and Maori Focus Forum leader Dr Mahuika...

Yup it is that simple!

Must be something in the genes right? The Irish were unfortunate as when the British took over their country, lands, and made them poorer they inherited a mutated version of the good citizen gene and instead ended up with the criminal gene. The Irish criminal gene accounts for why Irish always had greater rates of offending and victimisation from 1700s up to 1900s.

[RDJ]

So you are saying that old white lady driving her beemer in Rems should be stopped at same frequency as young brown driver out South, despite one having a much higher risk of causing a fatal accident?

:tugger:

No I am not. And your total lack of comprehension of the underlying principle suggests that there is no point in trying to reason with you.

[mada]

No I am not. And your total lack of comprehension of the underlying principle suggests that there is no point in trying to reason with you.

You are the one arguing that all should be treated equally by the law. Yet here is the reality and an example where you contradict that assertion. :rolleyes:

[RDJ]

Mada - I provided an example of an earlier race-based stupidity where the underlying logic was equally fallacious. Clearly the 'authorities' are bent on not treating everyone equally. I was not condoning it, merely pointing out the latest Hamauha-fronted racist strategy was clearly not a one-off apartheid idiocy.

[mada]

RDJ

1. If it was race based it would be for the whole of NZ. Instead it is for one specific area. A high risk area, and then within that a high risk population.

2. This is not an official policy. It is a guideline to Police Officers to consider when using their discretion.

3. Iwi organisations appear to be the ones running and funding the scheme in regards to compliance. Do we have non-Maori community organisations which will do something this intensive and for free???

4. It is much easier for a Police Officer and Police as an organisation to write ticket and pass it over. It involves more time and administration to go through the hassle of grabbing all details, making referrals to support agencies, checking on compliance and following up in 2 months time, and then writing ticket a if non-compliance.

Would the extra time and administration be worth it if applied to people were not such a risk? Would the cost to benefit ratio be favourable if such an approach was rolled out nationally, especially to areas where compliance was more likely through just a fine or a warning?

5. How well is the current strategy of ticket, courts, fines, working?

6. How can other measures such as higher risk targeted interventions eg. more patrols, more check points, more stops, targeted at young brown drivers be considered as "equality"? And because of that their likelihood of receiving infringements higher? Opposed to being a smart risk-based approach, which arguably isn't that equal in principle?

[mada]

The same can be said for preferential recruitment of "yellow cops" and funding for civilian Asian Liaison Officers and other area-specific ethnic focused crime prevention strategies.

If we stuck strictly to equality, Asian communities would face greater barriers in reporting crimes and higher victimisation. We also wouldn't be able to bust as many of the P dealers at Skycity.

The "one approach" fits works well for those of us who fall within the majority, but it has it's flaws.

[wharekura]

so whats the maori word for electricity
Tiriti o Waitangi

[RDJ]

RDJ

1. If it was race based it would be for the whole of NZ. Instead it is for one specific area. A high risk area, and then within that a high risk population.

2. This is not an official policy. It is a guideline to Police Officers to consider when using their discretion.

3. Iwi organisations appear to be the ones running and funding the scheme in regards to compliance. Do we have non-Maori community organisations which will do something this intensive and for free???

4. It is much easier for a Police Officer and Police as an organisation to write ticket and pass it over. It involves more time and administration to go through the hassle of grabbing all details, making referrals to support agencies, checking on compliance and following up in 2 months time, and then writing ticket a if non-compliance.

Would the extra time and administration be worth it if applied to people were not such a risk? Would the cost to benefit ratio be favourable if such an approach was rolled out nationally, especially to areas where compliance was more likely through just a fine or a warning?

5. How well is the current strategy of ticket, courts, fines, working?

6. How can other measures such as higher risk targeted interventions eg. more patrols, more check points, more stops, targeted at young brown drivers be considered as "equality"? And because of that their likelihood of receiving infringements higher? Opposed to being a smart risk-based approach, which arguably isn't that equal in principle?

It is race-based - as the police themselves have said. You can put forward all the rationalizations you are fond of - that is what people who favour racial policies do as they try to convince themselves they are not favouring policies based on the color of the skin of both offenders and the racially privileged. But, that does not change the facts.

And it is an official policy, we saw it on an official document. Complete with typically bureaucratic misspellings.

Go ahead and knock yourself out trying to convince yourself it's not racial bias. It simply is. As unpalatable as that must be to you.

[Swoop]

These are now available on TardMe.

312864

[mada]

It is race-based - as the police themselves have said. You can put forward all the rationalizations you are fond of - that is what people who favour racial policies do as they try to convince themselves they are not favouring policies based on the color of the skin of both offenders and the racially privileged. But, that does not change the facts.

And it is an official policy, we saw it on an official document. Complete with typically bureaucratic misspellings.

Go ahead and knock yourself out trying to convince yourself it's not racial bias. It simply is. As unpalatable as that must be to you.

That's a great way of not actually debating any points, and shooting the messenger - "someone who favours racial policies". Good logic.

I favour risk based approaches, if that means ethnicity is a risk factor then it is legitimate to target that but also to intervene.

[Banditbandit]

from a polytech tutor and personal friend

'The reason put forward is that Maori have a different learning pedagogy (style) than others and need the extra time to focus. When we have 230 free positions for Maori and Pacifica students in engineering and can only fill half of them I have different views on their study and learning styles.!'

That's crap .. I work in a Māori teaching environment, and yes, there are different LEARNING pedagogies .. but an assessment task is still an assessment task and when I set three hour exams I expect my Maori students to complete those in three hours - not four hours, and I don't set easier exams for them ..


I guess that if their goal is to reduce the "over representation of Maori in those statistics" then the obvious solution is to not ticket therefore they don't become a statistic. Voila! - over representation removed. And all the people said "aaaay-men". :puke:

That's a bullshit way of achieving the goal ...


Good luck with that - by letting them off when breaking the law, how does that help? Just askin'.

It doesn't - but then they are not completely "let off" they have to do some things otherwise they pay the fine ...


So you are saying that old white lady driving her beemer in Rems should be stopped at same frequency as young brown driver out South, despite one having a much higher risk of causing a fatal accident?

:tugger:

:rofl: Yeah - stop the old white lady - the ones I've seen are bloody dangerous ...

But no - I do get your point .. stop them when they demonstrate bad driving - don't stop them because of their ethnicity.

[Banditbandit]

so whats the maori word for electricity

Hiko ... ask me a hard one ..

[RDJ]

That's a great way of not actually debating any points, and shooting the messenger - "someone who favours racial policies". Good logic.

I favour risk based approaches, if that means ethnicity is a risk factor then it is legitimate to target that but also to intervene.

As I said - keep justifying racially-based and -biased policies if that works for you. Keep calling them legitimate because they are risk-based if that works for you. You're not keeping very fragrant historical company with that approach but you're clearly OK with that. If you think that it is shooting the messenger to point out the facts of your attitude - again, feel free.

[mada]

As I said - keep justifying racially-based and -biased policies if that works for you. Keep calling them legitimate because they are risk-based if that works for you. You're not keeping very fragrant historical company with that approach but you're clearly OK with that. If you think that it is shooting the messenger to point out the facts of your attitude - again, feel free.

The reality is if we had true equality under the law and you received equal Police attention on the road, equal chance of being stopped, equal chance of being fined, like Hone out South

or

equal Customs attention when you travelled, equal chance of being searched and questioned for a couple of hours like Mr Muhommed or Mr Zhou, you would be whinging about your rights, socialist like authoritarianism, and PC gone mad.

How come you have no concern or issue with the racially biased privileges you un-fairly receive at this point in time?

Based on my experiences, middle aged and older white men were the most likely to complain when being asked a few questions compared to any other group of people who had "nothing to hide". Their probably most likely to groan about the experience online too.

[jasonu]

They should scrap Police discretion for fines. Give every mofo who speeds 1km over the speed limit or is in breach of any part of their licence fines with no excuses.

Then we will have "one law for all". Who's keen?

But wasn't that how it was before all this 'give a bro a break' shit?

[jasonu]

A while back ... there was a clamp down on unrestrained kids ... would you see this as persecution of parents/caregivers .. ??? ...
.

That is like saying they are persecuting drunk drivers with booze check points or persecuting speeders with speed traps...

[rastuscat]

It's a totally predictable over reaction.

Schemes like this have popped up all over the country. The way this one was managed was appalling. The race focus is the problem.

However, if a particular demographic has a problem and you design a solution to address that problem, isn't that actually a good thing?

It's similar to the cock up in the communication of the zero tolerance over Christmas. Totally awful promotion of a philosophy.

[PrincessBandit]

That's a bullshit way of achieving the goal ...

It doesn't =- but ten they are not completely "let off" they have to do some things otherwise they pay the fine ...

.. stop them when they demonstrate bad driving - don't stop them because of their ethnicity.

It is most definitely bullshit if it's designed to rort numbers and make stats appear "better"; if you're going to do it for some, do it for all; and most definitely don't base thing on race - deal with the actions not the colour. I too have seen plenty of elderly whiteys who scare the crap out of me behind the wheel of their cars - I just hope I don't turn into one of 'em one day!!

[awayatc]

It's similar to the cock up in the communication of the zero tolerance over Christmas. Totally awful promotion of a philosophy.

One philosophy as you call it made everybody a criminal...and was/is a load if crap...
the other one tries to make less people criminals...which is great...

fuck promotion

[TheDemonLord]

It's a totally predictable over reaction.

Schemes like this have popped up all over the country. The way this one was managed was appalling. The race focus is the problem.

However, if a particular demographic has a problem and you design a solution to address that problem, isn't that actually a good thing?

It's similar to the cock up in the communication of the zero tolerance over Christmas. Totally awful promotion of a philosophy.

So what you are saying there (If I understand you correctly)

Is that the NZ Police is run by a bunch of Inept, Incompetent Beaurocrats who continually mislead the general public as a result of their Stupidity?

[FJRider]

That is like saying they are persecuting drunk drivers with booze check points or persecuting speeders with speed traps...

Perhaps ... this is actually closer to the real truth of this thread ... that is not PC to admit.

[TheDemonLord]

Okay, I will debate your points


RDJ

1. If it was race based it would be for the whole of NZ. Instead it is for one specific area. A high risk area, and then within that a high risk population.

So, if in the 1960s in America, Mississippi claimed that their racial segregation policies weren't racist because they didn't apply to the whole country - they would be right?

Whilst it may be a high risk area and a high risk group - it is a high risk group that is demarcated solely based on Race. Since the discriminating factor is Race, the Guideline is Racist. If the policy referred to anyone who say was below the financial poverty line, then that is not racist.


2. This is not an official policy. It is a guideline to Police Officers to consider when using their discretion.

It is however an Official Guideline. Guidelines are used to shape and eventually Drive policy.


3. Iwi organisations appear to be the ones running and funding the scheme in regards to compliance. Do we have non-Maori community organisations which will do something this intensive and for free???

So, a Maori organisation is lobbying the Government for preferential treatment for Maori. We don't have non-Maori organisations doing this because every other Ethnic group knows that you need a licence to drive and not to complain if you get pinged driving without a licence.


4. It is much easier for a Police Officer and Police as an organisation to write ticket and pass it over. It involves more time and administration to go through the hassle of grabbing all details, making referrals to support agencies, checking on compliance and following up in 2 months time, and then writing ticket a if non-compliance.

Just because something is harder, doesn't make it not racist.


Would the extra time and administration be worth it if applied to people were not such a risk? Would the cost to benefit ratio be favourable if such an approach was rolled out nationally, especially to areas where compliance was more likely through just a fine or a warning?

There are 2 key considerations here:

1: what is the point of having a Law if people are allowed to blatantly disregard it
2: Many people (myself included) believe that even so-called 'Positive Racism' (giving an ethnic group special privledges/rights in order to right historical wrongs) is still Racism and still wrong when applied at a governmental level.


5. How well is the current strategy of ticket, courts, fines, working?

Well, Eventually the Unlicenced driver won't be able to afford to drive and so won't be a hazard on the road.


6. How can other measures such as higher risk targeted interventions eg. more patrols, more check points, more stops, targeted at young brown drivers be considered as "equality"? And because of that their likelihood of receiving infringements higher? Opposed to being a smart risk-based approach, which arguably isn't that equal in principle?

So there is a fallacy in your arguement here (and it is a very crucial and overlooked fallacy)

The police don't set out to target as you put it 'Young, Brown Drivers' - they do however target areas that typically have those in the lower socio-economic groups who are more likely to be driving unlicenced/unwarranted/unregistered vehicles.

I agree that a large percentage of those people are likely to be 'Young, Brown drivers' but the police are not targeting them specifically. If suddenly we had a large influx of Green Men, who tended to reside in a particular area and tended to be routinely break the law - you can be guaranteed that the police would start setting up stops in that area, but it is not targeting the Green Men.

[FJRider]

It's a totally predictable over reaction.

Schemes like this have popped up all over the country. The way this one was managed was appalling. The race focus is the problem.

However, if a particular demographic has a problem and you design a solution to address that problem, isn't that actually a good thing?

It's similar to the cock up in the communication of the zero tolerance over Christmas. Totally awful promotion of a philosophy.

Perhaps The Police need Professional public relations and policy staff.

Not just hope senior staff in the various areas get it right ... good ideas are not as simple to implement ... as some have already found.

[RDJ]

I agree that a large percentage of those people are likely to be 'Young, Brown drivers' but the police are not targeting them specifically. If suddenly we had a large influx of Green Men, who tended to reside in a particular area and tended to be routinely break the law - you can be guaranteed that the police would start setting up stops in that area, but it is not targeting the Green Men.

The analogy fails, because in this case there is a "treat the Green men differently from the Orange or Blue men" documented policy. I.e. in this situation, the police have been instructed and had reinforced in writing that they are to let the Green men off more leniently compared to Orange or Blue men.

[TheDemonLord]

The analogy fails, because in this case there is a "treat the Green men differently from the Orange or Blue men" documented policy. I.e. in this situation, the police have been instructed and had reinforced in writing that they are to let the Green men off more leniently compared to Orange or Blue men.

That was a seperate argument about the Profiling and targeted action vs racism argument

[FJRider]

.. stop them when they demonstrate bad driving - don't stop them because of their ethnicity.

I think they get stopped when a check on their plates come up as expired rego with no WOF/speeding ... or attract the attention of plod in some way. The cop can't tell the race of a driver untill they are at the drivers door.

The scheme is targeting unlicensed drivers ... not those forbidden to drive (for any reason) and they CAN expect a ticket. Whatever their race.

Getting more full licensed drivers on the roads (in any area) has to be good for all motorists.

[RDJ]

That was a seperate argument about the Profiling and targeted action vs racism argument

Fair enough. Of course, targeted action on the basis of "what race are you" remains racist.

(How do the Police confirm a Sufficient State of Maoriness? Roadside Pigmentalyzer? Estimated Melanin Index? Being able to spout Treaty grievances?... or one of these... http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/personalised-plates/auction-904336892.htm )

[Tazz]

Racism.......?
never cut anybody yet who is pink and red inside......
Holy shit!

Mate what you do in your spare time is your own business.....:bleh:

[FJRider]

(How do the Police confirm a Sufficient State of Maoriness? Roadside Pigmentalyzer? Estimated Melanin Index? Being able to spout Treaty grievances?... or one of these... http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/personalised-plates/auction-904336892.htm )

Ask the Groups that provide assistance to the "Maori" ... that are referred in the scheme. I'm betting they will attempt to help ALL referred. If they don't help a few "whitey's" too ... that would be raciest ... wouldn't it .. ??

[Swoop]

Perhaps The Police need Professional public relations and policy staff.

Perhaps they are being the "Yin" to American police's "Yang"? Letting a black person off is much nicer than just shooting them dead.

[FJRider]

... Letting a black person off is much nicer than just shooting them dead.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... a tough choice. Perhaps we should take a poll ... :shutup:

[Ulsterkiwi]

It's a totally predictable over reaction.

Schemes like this have popped up all over the country. The way this one was managed was appalling. The race focus is the problem.

However, if a particular demographic has a problem and you design a solution to address that problem, isn't that actually a good thing?

It's similar to the cock up in the communication of the zero tolerance over Christmas. Totally awful promotion of a philosophy.

I have been saying this about any number of police PR cluster f***ks since whenever. The boys at the top might be good police officers but almost to a person are completely shit at communicating with the public or explaining their thinking. Result? Very very pissed off public who end up disengaged with every good thing the police are trying to do.

[Swoop]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... a tough choice. Perhaps we should take a poll ... :shutup:
Just don't take that poll in an American police station...

[bogan]

It is most definitely bullshit if it's designed to rort numbers and make stats appear "better"; if you're going to do it for some, do it for all; and most definitely don't base thing on race - deal with the actions not the colour. I too have seen plenty of elderly whiteys who scare the crap out of me behind the wheel of their cars - I just hope I don't turn into one of 'em one day!!

The take it to the other end for speeding, so its hardly a surprise really; the race part is though.

Easy to be one of those elderly whiteys I think, especially if you live rural; nan just gave up her keys, I'd been hinting at that for a few years now but when you live 30mins from town its a tough call.

[pritch]

The boys at the top might be good police officers

They might have been once but that was some time ago. In more recent times we have had a Commissioner who tried to bully a new constable into not breath testing his wife. Another who was involved in the Peter Ellis fiasco, which I would have thought should have disqualified him, made it to the top job.

Too often it seems people are appointed to positions within the police not because of experience or ability but because they have the right seniority and they can sit there until they retire. Maybe Mr Haumaha is one such. He doesn't see the recommendation as racist, but this could fairly be likened to not being able to see the wood for the trees.

Once I was chatting to an acquaintance and had cause to point out that what he was saying was racist. He looked shocked and replied that he couldn't be racist because he was a maori. He looked completely lost as I attempted to disabuse him of that notion.

[50Shades]

This is great, I'll get off my next speeding ticket so long as I do a mandatory track day at Taupo

[FJRider]

... Once I was chatting to an acquaintance and had cause to point out that what he was saying was racist. He looked shocked and replied that he couldn't be racist because he was a maori. He looked completely lost as I attempted to disabuse him of that notion.

But ... but ... but ... Billy T told racist jokes ... and everybody laughed ... :scratch:

[ellipsis]

...if any one needs special treatment by the law, it's us gingas...we should be let off, with non provocative types of words and serious consideration given to the fact that we know everything that's important...and even more importanter shit, too!...carry on officers...

[FJRider]

...if any one needs special treatment by the law, it's us gingas...

True ... the ginger gives a good aiming point too ... Coincidence .. ???

[roogazza]

It's similar to the cock up in the communication of the zero tolerance over Christmas. Totally awful promotion of a philosophy.

Agreed rastuscat, and it seems they've altered their approach since,with the last couple of holiday periods.

Someone has had their knuckles wacked.....:lol:

[Swoop]

This is great, I'll get off my next speeding ticket so long as I do a mandatory track day at Taupo

Rubbish. Have you ever had a blood transfusion...?:blip:

[Scuba_Steve]

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11401258_476554065827875_1715030521392741851_n.jpg ?oh=83724b0e4cf6d4a12d65ed1e4cd6de31&oe=55F5AF35

[Swoop]

...............
312900

[Banditbandit]

But ... but ... but ... Billy T told racist jokes ... and everybody laughed ... :scratch:

No they didn't .. (I thought he was hilarious) .. I know lots of people who were pissed off at him .. claimed he was perpetrating stereotypes and demeaning Māori ..

[RDJ]

What gives food for thought is not so much that 'they' have a racist policy; given the rise of political correctness, treaty- mongering, and special-snowflake status for certain people/groups that's a given.

What is more worrying is that they are completely blind to the fact this is a racist policy.

If you go looking for drunk drivers near pubs, if you go looking for speeders on the overtaking lanes, if you focus your intention on where things tend to go wrong/the law tends to be broken, none of that is singling people out on the basis of race. This policy, uniquely, does so.

And Haumaha was almost spluttering with indignation that people thought it was racist.

Not only does he beclown himself in public, he embarrasses his colleagues, and confirms the belief of the New Zealand public that what used to be an institution we were proud to respect when we were growing up, is going further down the gurgler with every decade, with every public relations stupidity, with every false claim of reducing the road toll, with every planting of evidence, with every failure to prosecute, with every innocent person in prison because of evidential falsifications in the Crown's case.

[jasonu]

No they didn't .. (I thought he was hilarious) .. I know lots of people who were pissed off at him .. claimed he was perpetrating stereotypes and demeaning Māori ..

Was that you that took a pot shot at Billys house?

[Maha]

No they didn't .. (I thought he was hilarious) .. I know lots of people who were pissed off at him .. claimed he was perpetrating stereotypes and demeaning Māori ..

He was the most revered of all NZ comedians...period. Nowadays, any so called NZ ''comedian'' rely's heavily of foul language (no humour) to get a laugh.

[Swoop]

No they didn't .. (I thought he was hilarious) .. I know lots of people who were pissed off at him .. claimed he was perpetrating stereotypes and demeaning Māori ..

I heard that a lot of folks were not fans, which is a shame.
He was a brilliant comedian and also a damned good entertainer, singer, writer and actor.

Any person who can do all of those, has a gift. Luckily he shared it with NZ.

[Maha]

Billy..........

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OWYVlysMjm8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[RDJ]

He was so funny. The "Tainui Kid" was an all-time classic. The people who didn't like him, could just switch off right? Somehow they couldn't / didn't want to do that, they watched him and complained about it.

:(

[FJRider]

No they didn't .. (I thought he was hilarious) .. I know lots of people who were pissed off at him .. claimed he was perpetrating stereotypes and demeaning Māori ..

If HE does it ... it was ok ... Whitey does it ... national outrage.

Reverse racisism I think it's called ...

[Trade_nancy]

If HE does it ... it was ok ... Whitey does it ... national outrage.

Reverse racisism I think it's called ...

NO the FUCK it is NOT!!!..called reverse racism. Racism in reverse is = treating everyone the same....
Racism is treating somebody badly or unequally based on their race. Black to white or white to black - it is still RACISM.

[FJRider]

NO the FUCK it is NOT!!!..called reverse racism. Racism in reverse is = treating everyone the same....
Racism is treating somebody badly or unequally based on their race. Black to white or white to black - it is still RACISM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

[Robert Taylor]

Good job on completely losing the faith of the public nz police.

This is just flat out racism. No other word for it.

Entirely, its amazing how a certain section of society think that history owes them a living and privilege. While at the same time many claiming such ethnicity will have much less than 50% of such ethnicity. PERVERSE. Its high time any politician from any party stood up and said ''most of NZ has had a total gutsful of this state sponsored racism'' And that we are all New Zealanders and nothing else

[awayatc]

Inequality is always wrong...

unfortunately for all of us we do not live in an equal society... (Yet)

we all would be better served if we could get over ourselves...

regardless of skin colour.

seems we got some way to go yet.......

[Laava]

Was that you that took a pot shot at Billys house?

You are treading dangerously close to a conspiracy there!

[Trade_nancy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

So? Some fool coined a phrase and it got wiki'd. Still object to it's usage. Racism cannot be termed as the discrimination of a white against a black. It must be either way.....and fools that use the term only perpetuate the myth further.

[bogan]

So? Some fool coined a phrase and it got wiki'd. Still object to it's usage. Racism cannot be termed as the discrimination of a white against a black. It must be either way.....and fools that use the term only perpetuate the myth further.

Would backsies racism suit better?

Whatever the word for it, fuck those moari parliamentary seats right honorably...

[Banditbandit]

Was that you that took a pot shot at Billys house?

Don't you fuckers read ?? I said "I thought he was hilarious ... "

[Delerium]

Entirely, its amazing how a certain section of society think that history owes them a living and privilege. While at the same time many claiming such ethnicity will have much less than 50% of such ethnicity. PERVERSE. Its high time any politician from any party stood up and said ''most of NZ has had a total gutsful of this state sponsored racism'' And that we are all New Zealanders and nothing else


The thing is, if these initiatives were done by socio economic status/background, it would get the same people, achieve the same results, and NOT have the opening of being labelled racist.

[Katman]

Is this the 21st century's Billy T?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9ML3PTrgI7o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[FastFred]

So you are saying that old white lady driving her beemer in Rems should be stopped at same frequency as young brown driver out South, despite one having a much higher risk of causing a fatal accident?

Sorry, so which one did you think was the higher risk?????? ... :scratch:

313663...313664