Is it time to lock up the Greenpeace terrorists?

[JimO]

the cops should have handcuffed them to the roof and left them there foe a month or so. or they could have had practice shots with the sponge rounds, how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

[98tls]

the cops should have handcuffed them to the roof and left them there foe a month or so. or they could have had practice shots with the sponge rounds, how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

Can see your point but considering what country we are in a better option would have been to chopper in some explosives and get them to chuck em down the chimney.

[JimO]

Can see your point but considering what country we are in a better option would have been to chopper in some explosives and get them to chuck em down the chimney.
lots of worse places out there than NZ

[98tls]

lots of worse places out there than NZ

Absolutely mate my point was it seems the fuckups supposedly running this country seem hell bent on us joining such places,i cringe every night at 6 oclock and hope in vain that every tourist in country isnt watching,anyone remember Rodney Hide? silly question really as how could anyone forget.

[mashman]

the cops should have handcuffed them to the roof and left them there foe a month or so. or they could have had practice shots with the sponge rounds, how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

Keep them there and it'll help to insulate the building. Win/win ;)

[Voltaire]

They must have good bladders :innocent:

[Mom]

They must have good bladders :innocent:

I once went for in excess of 12 hours on a charity ride without a piss. During that time I drank nothing, but stupidly consumed a half stubbie of beer at the finish line. I got so wet (it rained the entire time), I could not peel my gear off with the certainty I could get it all back on again, to risk taking a piss during our very short stops. Once we did stop, I was DESPERATE to piss, I required help to get out of the gear, and then when I sat down, NOTHING happened! Nothing. Sat there willing myself to piss. Nothing. Pain. Then a trickle... It went on and on, and on and on and... ON and on and onnnnnand ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN. FFS. Never again.

I reckon they must have been dehydrated to begin with...

[Katman]

It's only a building.

[Laava]

considering what country we are in
chimney.

Chimbley. I think you will find in this country it is a chimbley.

[puddytat]

the cops should have handcuffed them to the roof and left them there foe a month or so. or they could have had practice shots with the sponge rounds, how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

Obvious Troll..... :facepalm:

[Voltaire]

I once went for in excess of 12 hours on a charity ride without a piss. During that time I drank nothing, but stupidly consumed a half stubbie of beer at the finish line. I got so wet (it rained the entire time), I could not peel my gear off with the certainty I could get it all back on again, to risk taking a piss during our very short stops. Once we did stop, I was DESPERATE to piss, I required help to get out of the gear, and then when I sat down, NOTHING happened! Nothing. Sat there willing myself to piss. Nothing. Pain. Then a trickle... It went on and on, and on and on and... ON and on and onnnnnand ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN. FFS. Never again.

I reckon they must have been dehydrated to begin with...

Far too much information :eek:

[JimO]

Obvious Troll..... :facepalm:
are you a detective?

[98tls]

. I got so wet, I could not peel my gear off with the certainty I could get it all back on again,

Uh huh....

[puddytat]

are you a detective?

Nah....Rocket scientist.

[Mike.Gayner]

Terrorists? How are these people terrorists? Who are they terrorising? Where is the violence/threat of violence?

If you're terrorised by the actions of a few protesters you'd probably better not leave your house, because there are worse things out there.

[Mike.Gayner]

how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

You can feel free to fuck off to Asia or the USA if you like - personally I like living in a country where people can peacefully protest without feeling the violence force of government. I don't have to agree with the actions of Greenpeace to understand the importance of the ability for citizens to protest.

[JimO]

Terrorists? How are these people terrorists? Who are they terrorising? Where is the violence/threat of violence?

If you're terrorised by the actions of a few protesters you'd probably better not leave your house, because there are worse things out there.
what gives them the right to do what they did?

[Mike.Gayner]

what gives them the right to do what they did?

The Bill of Rights which guarantees us free movement and free expression.

What exactly are you so aggrieved about?

[FJRider]

I once went for in excess of 12 hours on a charity ride without a piss.....

Thank you for sharing ... <_<

[JimO]

The Bill of Rights which guarantees us free movement and free expression.

What exactly are you so aggrieved about?
im a troll remember, fuck greenpeace, i dont think free movement means on the roof of parliament

[Katman]

It's just a building.

[JimO]

It's just a building.
what if it was your building Mr Man

[Katman]

what if it was your building Mr Man

If it was my building I'd probably be up there protesting with them.

[Madness]

So long as they've all had a briefing on potential hazards, wearing head-to-toe high-viz and the grounds of parliament are smattered with road cones, what's the problem? A bit cold for that kind of shenanigans I would have thought.

[mashman]

what if it was your building Mr Man

Whose building is it if not yours? You pay for it, and its inhabitants.

[FJRider]

If it was my building I'd probably be up there protesting with them.

It is (should be) a public place ... :calm:


I look forward to seeing you (on TV) on the roof ... ;)


I'm betting you don't have the balls ... :facepalm:

[FJRider]

the cops should have handcuffed them to the roof and left them there foe a month or so. or they could have had practice shots with the sponge rounds, how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

I thought Greenpeace was not political ... ;)

[Katman]

Whose building is it if not yours? You pay for it, and its inhabitants.

Did you hear we've just forked out $11mill on an apartment in New York for our representitive to the UN?

[mashman]

Did you hear we've just forked out $11mill on an apartment in New York for our representitive to the UN?

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Same reason we spent $40 million decorating the gov gen's place, only to fill it with special people instead of people who could do with the bed. Standards must be maintained.

[RDJ]

Why yes, yes it is. Long overdue.

[Voltaire]

Its time to lock up useless Politicians who are letting the interests of other countries run roughshod over the locals.

I don't actively support Greenpeace but they are the Ying to the Government's Yang.

Ying and Yang...segue to a rant....

The downside of 'offshoring' all the manufacturing to China is becoming apparent as they have lots and lots of money to spend and 200 million wealthy people to spend it.

( slightly off subject)

[TheDemonLord]

Sometimes I do think the Greenpeace do need a kick up the arse for over-stepping the fine line between peaceful protest and systematic illegal activity (like an organised criminal gang)

but for all the hubbub about this - I couldn't care less.

If someone blew up our Parliament tomorrow, a tear I would not shed.

[caspernz]

My only gripe with the activists scaling the walls of Parliament is them spreading the false message about global warming, who knew they were THAT far behind the information curve?


I thought Greenpeace was not political ... ;)

In the first few years of Greenpeace this was correct.


If someone blew up our Parliament tomorrow, a tear I would not shed.

Sure wouldn't make any difference, for it's not where the decisions that matter are made.

[Banditbandit]

the cops should have handcuffed them to the roof and left them there foe a month or so. or they could have had practice shots with the sponge rounds, how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

Clearly they did not let them trespass .. they were arrested ... they will now face the consequences of their actions

Clearly no one was in imminent danger from these people - so why shoot them with sponge rounds? All that would do would knock them out and then the police would have to run some personal risks to get them down ...

The cops decided not to risk themselves by trying to get them down - they knew they only had to wait ... eventually they would come down . and they did ..

Terrorists??? My god if you are that afraid of four or five protesters however do you overcome your fear enough to get on a motorcycle???

[sugilite]

Terrorists? How are these people terrorists? Who are they terrorising? Where is the violence/threat of violence?

If you're terrorised by the actions of a few protesters you'd probably better not leave your house, because there are worse things out there.

I think they are more pirates than terrorists?
I heard one of them was seen wearing a eye patch with a knife between his teeth traversing across a zip line between the beehive and the old parliament building, all the while downloading the latest mad max movie via a torrent on his laptop.

[puddytat]

im a troll remember, fuck greenpeace, i dont think free movement means on the roof of parliament

I hope one of them did have a free movement on the roof.....a bowel movement.

[IkieBikie]

Global warming??? It's bloody freezing!!!!

[GCSB Thought Police]

the cops should have handcuffed them to the roof and left them there foe a month or so. or they could have had practice shots with the sponge rounds, how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

So it's you who has been pestering us to get us to arrest Greenpeace members because they are terrorists.

Keep calm and stop bothering us. The people on the building were harmless - just a nuisance. Our enforcement arm has dealt with them.

[Tazz]

https://almightybooka.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/great-story.jpg

[admenk]

So, just what is a terrorist anyway? Seems to me that anyone a government doesn't like gets labelled one. Maybe i'm one?....I do ride a bike after all :shifty:

[yokel]

Greenpeace have lost their way, now full of useful idiots and political puppets, this stunt was most likely a staged event.
and we now have a minister of 'climate change' Tim Groser, what a joke.

https://youtu.be/dIvLEwGS-70

[JimO]

Terrorists??? My god if you are that afraid of four or five protesters however do you overcome your fear enough to get on a motorcycle???
i aint scared of some fucken hippys

[Mike.Gayner]

i aint scared of some fucken hippys

Then exactly what is your problem? You seems to be so terrified that you demand government action - what are you so afraid of?

[puddytat]

Greenpeace have lost their way, now full of useful idiots and political puppets, this stunt was most likely a staged event.
and we now have a minister of 'climate change' Tim Groser, what a joke.

https://youtu.be/dIvLEwGS-70

If your such a hater of everything, why don't you do something about it.?
Like blow yourself up for example.....

[JimO]

Then exactly what is your problem? You seems to be so terrified that you demand government action - what are you so afraid of?
i think i smell a greenpeacenick

[BMWST?]

this stunt was most likely a staged event.



you sir, are a genius.What the hell was it if it wasn't

[Robert Taylor]

the cops should have handcuffed them to the roof and left them there foe a month or so. or they could have had practice shots with the sponge rounds, how many countries would let people trespass on the roof of the parliament bldg, doubt they would in asia or the states

Exactly, take a leaf out of Maggie Thatchers book when that incarcerated Irish terrorist Bobbie Sands went on hunger strike ''Well let him do so''. He subsequently died from his own self induced starvation thereby also saving the British taxpayers a load of money to keep the dropkick.

[Voltaire]

I'm not sure you can compare 800 years of English oppression with people who want to save the environment.

[puddytat]

Is it coincidence that Robert & GCSBthoughtpolice turn up out of the blue after months of laying low.......:shifty:

[Mike.Gayner]

I'm not sure you can compare 800 years of English oppression with people who want to save the environment.

Apparently you can if you're a complete fucking twit like RT. Right wing madness and free-market lunacy, right up until it hurts his own business then it's all about local industry protectionism. So pretty much the standard hypocrisy displayed by pretty much everyone who preaches that end of the political spectrum.

[Robert Taylor]

Apparently you can if you're a complete fucking twit like RT. Right wing madness and free-market lunacy, right up until it hurts his own business then it's all about local industry protectionism. So pretty much the standard hypocrisy displayed by pretty much everyone who preaches that end of the political spectrum.

Well labels or not your side of the spectrum is outnumbered in NZ, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and so forth. Protectionism no, level playing field yes

[Robert Taylor]

I'm not sure you can compare 800 years of English oppression with people who want to save the environment.

Maybe then the England should stop propping up Northern Ireland and Scotland economically. See how long they would last. The trouble with those who espouse ''saving the environment'' ( and who realistically in their right mind doesn't want to ) is that they want to shut down everything that provides them a living and to give them a chance to espouse their hypocrisy.

[Robert Taylor]

Is it coincidence that Robert & GCSBthoughtpolice turn up out of the blue after months of laying low.......:shifty:

No, Ive been busy doing something productive, rather than engaging with the many Marxists who inhabit this forum. Hard work is good, I thoroughly recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it

[BuzzardNZ]

Well labels or not your side of the spectrum is outnumbered in NZ, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and so forth. Protectionism no, level playing field yes

Level playing fields and Robert Taylor should never be mentioned in the same sentence!

Taking money from various people to sort their suspension and then placing cheating parts on another's in the same race for the win. What FUCKING ARSEHOLE does that? Oh I know, his name is Robert Taylor. Cunt.

[Robert Taylor]

Level playing fields and Robert Taylor should never be mentioned in the same sentence!

Taking money from various people to sort their suspension and then placing cheating parts on another's in the same race for the win. What FUCKING ARSEHOLE does that? Oh I know, his name is Robert Taylor. Cunt.

Think hard before you start pointing fingers and to whom. There have likely been many versions of events posted by circling vultures. And the reality is ( no justification ) that over many decades there has been rule breaking in many classes. Of course you are a cheat to your true identity to throw about pretty sad expletives while hiding behind a forum name. Very brave of you. Maybe you should join Greenpeace.

[Voltaire]

Greenpeace have lost their way, now full of useful idiots and political puppets, this stunt was most likely a staged event.
and we now have a minister of 'climate change' Tim Groser, what a joke.

https://youtu.be/dIvLEwGS-70

" Useful Idiots" :2thumbsup

Its much easier to sit back and bleat on a motorcycle forum.

But then you don't actually have any bikes to keep you occupied :lol::lol:

[Voltaire]

Maybe then the England should stop propping up Northern Ireland and Scotland economically. See how long they would last. The trouble with those who espouse ''saving the environment'' ( and who realistically in their right mind doesn't want to ) is that they want to shut down everything that provides them a living and to give them a chance to espouse their hypocrisy.

Maybe they should, and Scotland would have a nice income of the oil. Northern Ireland could be returned to its rightful owners and they could all get on.

As for saving the Environment, back in the early 50's London had coal fired power stations and coal heating.
Then they had a very nasty coal induced fog.
thousands dies or were affected. I lived in London in the 80's 90's and the air was fine.
Conclusion, they did something about it.
I was in China on business a few years back and the air was terrible.
They are very busy working for a living but at the cost of the environment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog

I do get the impression that Greenies don't have a huge grip on economics.

PS: My Classic BMW Racebike Ohlins rear and tweeked front end make for a very plush ride...even round Pukekohe goat track

[TheDemonLord]

I do get the impression that Greenies don't have a huge grip on economics.

And therein lies the rub - the principle of Greenpeace is admirable - looking after the environment which in many ways we all rely on for our livelyhood. However there must be balance - forsaking all industry for the sake of the environment is just as ludicrous as forsaking all Environment for Industry.

The problem is that when reasonable and rational people try to have a conversation about how we can achieve balance, ultimately we get drowned out by extremists on both sides.

[Katman]

And therein lies the rub - the principle of Greenpeace is admirable - looking after the environment which in many ways we all rely on for our livelyhood. However there must be balance - forsaking all industry for the sake of the environment is just as ludicrous as forsaking all Environment for Industry.

The problem is that when reasonable and rational people try to have a conversation about how we can achieve balance, ultimately we get drowned out by extremists on both sides.

I don't think Greenpeace are calling on us to turn against all industry.

I think they are simply trying to protect the environment that we rely on for life and in that respect it is high time we made a move towards utilizing (and further developing) clean and renewable energy sources.

[Katman]

And in a similar vein we should be more concerned about maintaining our rivers and lakes in a state that makes them safe to swim and fish in rather than further adding to their degradation by intensifying the dairy farming industry simply because we can make more money by doing so.

[mashman]

And in a similar vein we should be more concerned about maintaining our rivers and lakes in a state that makes them safe to swim and fish in rather than further adding to their degradation by intensifying the dairy farming industry simply because we can make more money by doing so.

And that's where the whole thing turns to custard. Economy will take precedence every time :facepalm:

[Robert Taylor]

Maybe they should, and Scotland would have a nice income of the oil. Northern Ireland could be returned to its rightful owners and they could all get on.

As for saving the Environment, back in the early 50's London had coal fired power stations and coal heating.
Then they had a very nasty coal induced fog.
thousands dies or were affected. I lived in London in the 80's 90's and the air was fine.
Conclusion, they did something about it.
I was in China on business a few years back and the air was terrible.
They are very busy working for a living but at the cost of the environment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog

I do get the impression that Greenies don't have a huge grip on economics.

PS: My Classic BMW Racebike Ohlins rear and tweeked front end make for a very plush ride...even round Pukekohe goat track

Yes that's all very true, a classic case of how industrialisation starts and initially lays waste. I think we as New Zealanders have a very keen sense of how things should balance out ( if you take away the extremists ) At least I would grudgingly say of Greenpeace their members mostly are prepared to publicly stand up for who they are. Lucy Lawless being a prime example, true to her surname. Many people who habitate forums and snipe away behind a veil of protective pseudonyms could learn from that.
Off subject but a good many English people thought the Scottish referendum was gone about the wrong way. It was suggested that the referendum should have been held in England to decide if they actually wanted Scotland. And that if they decided they didn't to then turn off all economic aid and seal off the wall/ build it taller! When you talk of the relationship between Scotland and England over the centuries I often get the impression that many people look at it through rose tinted glasses, favouring the Scots and demonising the English. It would be fair to say that the Scots also have a lot to answer for.
Great to hear the suspension in the BM is working well. A bike design conceived under facist rule, the rear end products made in a socialist country and the front end components made in a very capitalist country!!!

[Swoop]

this stunt was most likely a staged event.
As I keep saying to you. You are a fucking moron.


Maybe they should, and Scotland would have a nice income of the oil.
Yes, they would. However they would have to pay for their own Defence force (army, navy and air) and also their own welfare system (among many others). Obviously their shipbuilding industry would go down the shitter due to zero contracts coming from British military contracts (a small issue that seemd to hit home at independence voting time...).

[yokel]

As I keep saying to you. You are a fucking moron.



say it one more time....please big boy.

seeing all the safety gear and the rather causal attitude of the cops says it all.

[puddytat]

the avatar explains a lot.......gay paranoid racist redneck......who's not good a taking his meds regular like.

[Tazz]

As I keep saying to you. You are a fucking moron.


Yes, they would. However they would have to pay for their own Defence force (army, navy and air) and also their own welfare system (among many others). Obviously their shipbuilding industry would go down the shitter due to zero contracts coming from British military contracts (a small issue that seemd to hit home at independence voting time...).
Well, they could start with leasing England the use of its (only?) nuclear sub base, that is in Scotland haha.

[mashman]

Well, they could start with leasing England the use of its nuclear sub base, that is in Scotland haha.

Scotland would become an instant nuclear world power. Probably target the english and push the button mind.

[imdying]

Exactly, take a leaf out of Maggie Thatchers book when that incarcerated Irish terrorist Bobbie Sands went on hunger strike ''Well let him do so''. He subsequently died from his own self induced starvation thereby also saving the British taxpayers a load of money to keep the dropkick.Odd comparison... Bobbie Sands was both a patriot and a hero.

[Berries]

Odd comparison... Bobbie Sands was both a patriot and a hero.
And a crap decorator.

[RDJ]

And a terrorist. He was a PROVO (IRA) member. He was arrested and charged in October 1972 with possession of four handguns found in the house where he was staying. He was convicted in April 1973 & sentenced to five years imprisonment and released in April 1976. Upon his release from prison in 1976, he resumed his active role in the Provisional IRA. He and Joe McDonnell planned the October 1976 bombing of the Balmoral Furniture Company (i.e. a "soft" civilian) target in Dunmurry. The showroom was destroyed but as the IRA men left the scene there was a gun battle with the Royal Ulster Constabulary. Leaving behind two wounded, the other four (Sands, plus three others) tried to escape in a car, but were then arrested. That was how he ended up in gaol.

[Katman]

And a terrorist.

One man's terrorist is often another man's freedom fighter.

[RDJ]

Hmmm. I am not sure you can 'get' this but - when so-called freedom fighters bomb mothers and babies shopping at supermarkets the first words that come to mind are not 'freedom' and 'fighting' but murderous, morally bankrupt, evil, sadistic, terrorism. Clearly, you have a different perspective. I could have introduced you to some victims at the time but on reflection, probably better not to have done so. You would have very likely made it worse for them.

[Katman]

Hmmm. I am not sure you can 'get' this but - when so-called freedom fighters bomb mothers and babies shopping at supermarkets the first words that come to mind are not 'freedom' and 'fighting' but murderous, morally bankrupt, evil, sadistic, terrorism. Clearly, you have a different perspective. I could have introduced you to some victims at the time but on reflection, probably better not to have done so. You would have very likely made it worse for them.

Because the 'good guys' have never killed mothers and babies shopping at supermarkets, right?

[98tls]

Hmmm. I am not sure you can 'get' this but - when so-called freedom fighters bomb mothers and babies shopping at supermarkets the first words that come to mind are not 'freedom' and 'fighting' but murderous, morally bankrupt, evil, sadistic, terrorism. Clearly, you have a different perspective. I could have introduced you to some victims at the time but on reflection, probably better not to have done so. You would have very likely made it worse for them.

People fighting for "so called freedom" have been bombing mothers and babies for a very long time,chances are your related to one or more of em along the way.

[Katman]

People fighting for "so called freedom" have been bombing mothers and babies for a very long time,chances are your related to one or more of em along the way.

I wonder how many American drones have killed mothers and babies.

[RDJ]

People fighting for "so called freedom" have been bombing mothers and babies for a very long time,chances are your related to one or more of em along the way.

Since I didn't do it myself, any relationships I may or many not have to anyone else are irrelevant. Just like I have no obligations for colonialism or any other 'ism' I was not part of... I do not believe in inherited guilt. You can as you wish. As long as you do not try and tax me to make yourself feel better.

[RDJ]

I wonder how many American drones have killed mothers and babies.

And the relevance of this to Bobby Sands' terrorism is what exactly?

[Katman]

And the relevance of this to Bobby Sands' terrorism is what exactly?

That America is guilty of just as much (if not more) 'terrorism' as Bobby Sands ever was.

[98tls]

And the relevance of this to Bobby Sands' terrorism is what exactly?

Which in turn has what to do with Greenpeace?

[RDJ]

Nothing much, but then - I did not link Mr Sands to Greenpeace. That was another inmate. You may wish to rechannel your ire :niceone:

[Berries]

I'm just pissed that nobody got my joke.

[98tls]

I'm just pissed that nobody got my joke.

:laugh::laugh:

[Banditbandit]

Hmmm. I am not sure you can 'get' this but - when so-called freedom fighters bomb mothers and babies shopping at supermarkets the first words that come to mind are not 'freedom' and 'fighting' but murderous, morally bankrupt, evil, sadistic, terrorism. Clearly, you have a different perspective. I could have introduced you to some victims at the time but on reflection, probably better not to have done so. You would have very likely made it worse for them.

"You must spread ..."

Real Freedom fighters do not target women and children ..

[Banditbandit]

I wonder how many American drones have killed mothers and babies.

Plenty ..


That America is guilty of just as much (if not more) 'terrorism' as Bobby Sands ever was.

Yes - no argument there ..

[TheDemonLord]

I wonder how many American drones have killed mothers and babies.

The question to ask is - has America ever specifically targeted mothers and babies?

Certainly collateral fatalities are tragic - but there is a difference between a Terrorist who specifically targets the Mothers and Babies, and the Drone that targets a military target.

[mashman]

The question to ask is - has America ever specifically targeted mothers and babies?

They use taxation for that purpose.

[Katman]

The question to ask is - has America ever specifically targeted mothers and babies?

Remember WW2?

However unpalatable it is for you to accept it, carpet bombing of civilian populations is exactly that.

[TheDemonLord]

Remember WW2?

However unpalatable it is for you to accept it, carpet bombing of civilian populations is exactly that.

As a direct response to Hitlers change at the end of the Battle of Britain from targeting military installations to targeting Cities.

And when you consider that Accuracy in WW2 was a bomb landing within 5 miles of the intended target, you can't really claim targeting in the same sense you claim when referring to a drone strike where the accuracy is measured within 5 meters of the intended target.

[Katman]

As a direct response to Hitlers change at the end of the Battle of Britain from targeting military installations to targeting Cities.

And when you consider that Accuracy in WW2 was a bomb landing within 5 miles of the intended target, you can't really claim targeting in the same sense you claim when referring to a drone strike where the accuracy is measured within 5 meters of the intended target.

Remember My Lai?

[Katman]

As a direct response to Hitlers change at the end of the Battle of Britain from targeting military installations to targeting Cities.

Actually, the first bombs to land on London were not intended for that target. They were jettisoned prematurely by a bomber that had lost it's way and was being attacked by fighters.

Churchill responded by specifically targeting Berlin over the next three nights and then it was all on.

[Banditbandit]

As a direct response to Hitlers change at the end of the Battle of Britain from targeting military installations to targeting Cities.

And when you consider that Accuracy in WW2 was a bomb landing within 5 miles of the intended target, you can't really claim targeting in the same sense you claim when referring to a drone strike where the accuracy is measured within 5 meters of the intended target.

Dresden ...


The bombing of Dresden was an American and British attack on the city of Dresden, the capital of the German state of Saxony, that took place during the Second World War in the European Theatre. Germany would surrender three months later. In four raids between 13 and 15 February 1945, 722 heavy bombers of the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and 527 of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city. The bombing and the resulting firestorm destroyed over 1,600 acres (6.5 km2) of the city centre. An estimated 22,700[3] to 25,000[4] people were killed.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

The British Chief of Staff responded:


It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed.

Strangely, a very 21st century response from the US


An inquiry conducted at the behest of U.S. Army Chief of Staff, General George C. Marshall, stated the raid was justified by the available intelligence.



My Lai .. the actions of an individual and his troops - not officially sanctioned by the US.

[Katman]

Dresden ...

Let's not forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[Banditbandit]

The question to ask is - has America ever specifically targeted mothers and babies?


Yeah - I think we've answered your question ..

[Maha]

Let's not forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Did that really happen though, okay there's footage and shit, but is that really enough to affirm?

[Banditbandit]

Did that really happen though, okay there's footage and shit, but is that really enough to affirm?

Of course there were two major explosions in Nagasaki and Hiroshima ... it was a false flag attack planned and executed by the Japanese Government to guarantee that Japan lost and then got heaps of compensation from the USA ...

[Maha]

:rofl: Humour needs emoticons or someone will take you seriously ...

I want read Katmugs response as to whether footage of something happening is enough to say it actually did happen.

[husaberg]

Actually, the first bombs to land on London were not intended for that target. They were jettisoned prematurely by a bomber that had lost it's way and was being attacked by fighters.

Churchill responded by specifically targeting Berlin over the next three nights and then it was all on.

Someone might want to consider that these were not the first bombs dropped especially targeting civilian populations during WW2.
Poland still has that distinction.

313221

[Katman]

My Lai .. the actions of an individual and his troops - not officially sanctioned by the US.

Maybe not officially sanctioned but the subsequent cover-up (along with similar covering up of the actions of the Tiger Force Recon unit) almost gives it the appearance of being 'unofficially' sanctioned.

[RDJ]

People who try to use moral equivalence as a strategy should try to match morally equivalent actions... You don't make the grade here either Katman.

[TheDemonLord]

Me thinks that someone needs to remove the wheels from the Goal Posts.

There is a difference between a war between 2 countries and a Terrorist group
There is also a difference between attacking women and children in the first instance and launching a retaliatory strike based solely on the actions of your opponents.

but that doesn't matter right - Everything America has ever done is the work of Beezelbub and all his hellish minions and Terrorists are just poor misunderstood goat herds who would never hurt a fly and just want a hug.

Am I doing it right?

[husaberg]

Me thinks that someone needs to remove the wheels from the Goal Posts.

There is a difference between a war between 2 countries and a Terrorist group
There is also a difference between attacking women and children in the first instance and launching a retaliatory strike based solely on the actions of your opponents.

but that doesn't matter right - Everything America has ever done is the work of Beezelbub and all his hellish minions and Terrorists are just poor misunderstood goat herds who would never hurt a fly and just want a hug.

Am I doing it right?

Other than you never added the total world wide conspiracy behind it. It so needs to be added for the dramatic effect. Also that to deny it occurs or its existence you a mere sheeple.:yes:
Also the wheels on the goal posts are a given as it allows you to use a different set of standards for both sides.

[Katman]

Me thinks that someone needs to remove the wheels from the Goal Posts.

You mean these goal posts?


The question to ask is - has America ever specifically targeted mothers and babies?

[dinosaur]

..... this stunt was most likely a staged event.

LMAO
it would be stupid if it werent staged - that's what they do, protesters ........ they stage a protest
:weird:

[dinosaur]

Did that really happen though, okay there's footage and shit, but is that really enough to affirm?

it was filmed in the same shed as the moon landing ...... a funny guy with big eyes told me

[Maha]

it was filmed in the same shed as the moon landing ...... a funny guy with big eyes told me

Katmug was never at any of the above historic events, but would question the validity of many even though there is film footage suggesting some shit went down.

[TheDemonLord]

You mean these goal posts?

Indiscriminate does not equal specifically targeting.

Especially when it was a response to your comment about Drone strikes (the difference between achievable accuracy with a WW2 Bomber and a Drone being similar to the difference between 1903 Indian and a BMW S1000 RR HP4)

Perhaps a more accurate rebuttal (Pun fully intended) would be 'Has America ever specifically targeted women and children with Drone Strikes'

[dinosaur]

The problem with war is .... it's fought by humans, with all their failings and flaws

With death, betrayal, warring against the enemy of another culture in a foreign land, seeing things that twist your sense of right and wrong and see things that you would never imagine in your own mind - the mind seeks to construct some new order - often with it's own boundaries and warped morality

People from both sides of all conflicts and wars perpetrate atrocities - individuals and groups
Intelligence is filtered thought tainted minds and paranoid imaginings - used to justify unimaginable acts that would otherwise be 'wrong'.

the media become a puppet, manipulated

history a record of the victors, as they saw things

Woman and children suffer in all wars, on all sides
people rape and murder on both sides, in all wars



So ...... how does this relate to Greepeace protesting on the roof of Parliament again?


Personaly I don't care if they do or don't .... just nice to see some people passionate about something and protesting
We had AUT advertising on big banners down here in the Tron - I was saddened that their banners didn't get defaced by any Waikato Uni students ..... our young are being homogenized by our institutes now days
Bring back the hippies

[Katman]

Perhaps a more accurate rebuttal (Pun fully intended) would be 'Has America ever specifically targeted women and children with Drone Strikes'

If the person on the hit list is at home with his wife and children then yes, America is quite happy to target them as well.

[TheDemonLord]

If the person on the hit list is at home with his wife and children then yes, America is quite happy to target them as well.

That.

Is.

Not.

Specifically.

Targeting.

Them.

[Katman]

That.

Is.

Not.

Specifically.

Targeting.

Them.

Are.

You.

Saying.

That.

Bobby.

Sands.

Only.

Targeted.

Women.

And.

Children?

[dinosaur]

If the person on the hit list is at home with his wife and children then yes, America is quite happy to target them as well.

Its been an argument for hundreds of years - even the Romans debated it
big military might fighting a rebel army (terrorist, freedom fighters or rebels - all depends on who's side you see it from)
rebels don't have consistent uniform and often fight in civilian gear - how do you know who's Innocent or a fighter
rebels often don't travel or live in barracks, or camps, or when they do they often take over a civilian compound, hospital or school, often are mixing with and defending woman and children, sometimes using woman and children as shields
If they fought in the open it would be a short war with an obvious outcome

Rome: let accendere illas suis
they can die with their own people

[mashman]

That.

Is.

Not.

Specifically.

Targeting.

Them.

And when they know that the wife and kids are at home too?

[TheDemonLord]

Are.

You.

Saying.

That.

Bobby.

Sands.

Only.

Targeted.

Women.

And.

Children?

No, I am saying Terrorists specifically target Women and Children.

For example: Boko Haram and School Girls.

[TheDemonLord]

And when they know that the wife and kids are at home too?

Then the commanding officer in charge of the mission can weigh up the cost of life for the Wife and kids vs the cost of life of letting the person live (depending on what they have done to warrant such a military strike against them)

[Katman]

Then the commanding officer in charge of the mission can weigh up the cost of life for the Wife and kids vs the cost of life of letting the person live (depending on what they have done to warrant such a military strike against them)

:facepalm:

[mada]

OP must be French.

[mada]

No, I am saying Terrorists specifically target Women and Children.

For example: Boko Haram and School Girls.
Terrorists use any means of 'terror' to change the will of a population or government.

By this definition most countries have partaken in terrorism.

[TheDemonLord]

:facepalm:

But it still not specifically targeting them - you seem to have great trouble understanding this concept.

Yes, they still die (and probably no great loss to the world either) but they were not the intended victims.


Not to mention the debate that could be had as to the accuracy of military intelligence and whether or not there has been a situation where a mission has been executed (by means of a drone strike or Tomahawk or similar system - not infantry) with the commanding officer in charge of the mission knowing beyond all reasonable doubt that there were wives and children AND that they would be guaranteed to be killed.

I doubt we will ever have enough information to mount a robust argument in favor or against that notion.

[Katman]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

[mashman]

Then the commanding officer in charge of the mission can weigh up the cost of life for the Wife and kids vs the cost of life of letting the person live (depending on what they have done to warrant such a military strike against them)

So once it is established and a decision is made to forfeit the lives of the innocent in order to chop the head off of the snake (coz we know there isn't another waiting to take their place <_<), they do specifically target the women and children.

[TheDemonLord]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

Are we discussing America's policy to use drone strikes or whether or not they are specifically targeting women and children?

[TheDemonLord]

So once it is established and a decision is made to forfeit the lives of the innocent in order to chop the head off of the snake (coz we know there isn't another waiting to take their place <_<), they do specifically target the women and children.

Specifically targeting does not equal collateral deaths.

Yes the outcome is the same, but they are not the same.

[mashman]

Specifically targeting does not equal collateral deaths.

Yes the outcome is the same, but they are not the same.

They're not collateral, because they are known to be there where they once weren't. There is nothing accidental about their death. They become targets.

[Katman]

Are we discussing America's policy to use drone strikes or whether or not they are specifically targeting women and children?

Did you read the figures of 1147 killed for the sake of removing 41 men?

You'd think that America would have figured out by now that a huge number of innocent people are being killed by their 'precise' targeting method.

The reason that they don't seem to have figured it out is that they actually couldn't give the slightest fuck about collateral damage.

In my eyes that is every bit as morally corrupt as specifically targeting women and children.

[Banditbandit]

Maybe not officially sanctioned but the subsequent cover-up (along with similar covering up of the actions of the Tiger Force Recon unit) almost gives it the appearance of being 'unofficially' sanctioned.

It asn't covered up - William Calley was tried and found guilty ..


Me thinks that someone needs to remove the wheels from the Goal Posts.

There is a difference between a war between 2 countries and a Terrorist group

Yes - but what do YOU think the difference is?


There is also a difference between attacking women and children in the first instance and launching a retaliatory strike based solely on the actions of your opponents.

Not for the dead women and children there isn't ..


but that doesn't matter right - Everything America has ever done is the work of Beezelbub and all his hellish minions and Terrorists are just poor misunderstood goat herds who would never hurt a fly and just want a hug.

Am I doing it right?

That'as plainly stupid .. not your usual ...


That.

Is.

Not.

Specifically.

Targeting.

Them.

Do you seriously think that the US will ADMIT to deliberately targeting women and children ?? The moment they do they will face massive international condemnation ...


No, I am saying Terrorists specifically target Women and Children.

For example: Boko Haram and School Girls.

There are other terrorists and terrorist groups - those two certainly target women and children ... but they don't do it to create terror in the citizenery and change Government's minds - they do it for their own ends - genocide, sexual gratification or recruitment ... that doesn't make it right either ...

But I thought we were talking about bigger players in th arena ..

[Banditbandit]

Specifically targeting does not equal collateral deaths.

Yes the outcome is the same, but they are not the same.

Gawd - that's well below your usually well-reasoned responses ...

[Katman]

It asn't covered up - William Calley was tried and found guilty ..

Really?

http://nypost.com/2014/03/15/richard-nixon-and-the-my-lai-massacre-coverup/

[TheDemonLord]

They're not collateral, because they are known to be there where they once weren't. There is nothing accidental about their death. They become targets.

Yes they are (from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/collateral):

"4. Of a secondary nature; subordinate: collateral target damage from a bombing run."

They are not the primary target, known or otherwise - they are still secondary and therefore still Collateral.

[mashman]

Yes they are (from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/collateral):

"4. Of a secondary nature; subordinate: collateral target damage from a bombing run."

They are not the primary target, known or otherwise - they are still secondary and therefore still Collateral.

You said that a decision is made as to whether to kill people or not. If you decide to do so, they are no longer collateral. Strangely enough, if the same commander decides that he doesn't want them to die but carries on with the drone strike, then yeah, that is collateral damage. One is accidental, one is a intentional action. The accident is collateral, the intention is murder.

Wiki:
"Collateral damage is damage to things that are incidental to the intended target. It is frequently used as a military term where non-combatants are accidentally or unintentionally killed or wounded and/or non-combatant property damaged as result of the attack on legitimate military targets.[1][2]"

[TheDemonLord]

Did you read the figures of 1147 killed for the sake of removing 41 men?

You'd think that America would have figured out by now that a huge number of innocent people are being killed by their 'precise' targeting method.

The reason that they don't seem to have figured it out is that they actually couldn't give the slightest fuck about collateral damage.

In my eyes that is every bit as morally corrupt as specifically targeting women and children.

Okay

If we are going to discuss America's use of Drones, I would tend to suggest that the failure is not with the accuracy of the technology, but with the accuracy of the intelligence - but given the numbers presented - it would be correct to condemn America's use of drones while such a high incidence of Collateral deaths is occuring.

BUT

That is not what we were discussing - we were discussing whether they were targeted or not

[husaberg]

You mean these goal posts?

America is a country, your stories as always rely on hearsay, innuendo and dubiously motivated alternative media. As well as discredited self confessed liars.
You need to sort out fact from fiction. Strapping bombs to kids and sending missles and bombs purposefully at innocent targets is different from collateral damage.
In both world wars however, both sides did evil deeds, but don't forget who targeted civilians first. Also don't forget who set out to exterminate a civilian population ethic minorities.

[TheDemonLord]

You said that a decision is made as to whether to kill people or not.

Point of order - I said continue the mission


If you decide to do so, they are no longer collateral. Strangely enough, if the same commander decides that he doesn't want them to die but carries on with the drone strike, then yeah, that is collateral damage. One is accidental, one is a intentional action. The accident is collateral, the intention is murder.

I suspect that if you were to ask any Commander - they would all say that they don't want innocents to die. Which would kinda prove my point.

[Katman]

That is not what we were discussing - we were discussing whether they were targeted or not

As has already been said, if intelligence suggests that there are innocent civilians in the vicinity of the intended target and the attack is carried out regardless, then yes, they were targeted.

[Banditbandit]

Really?

http://nypost.com/2014/03/15/richard-nixon-and-the-my-lai-massacre-coverup/

From Wikipedia (admittedly the suppository of all knowledge)

Calley was charged on September 5, 1969, with six specifications of premeditated murder for the deaths of 109 South Vietnamese civilians near the village of My Lai, at a hamlet called Son My, more commonly called My Lai in the U.S. press.


After deliberating for 79 hours, the six-officer jury (five of whom had served in Vietnam) convicted him on March 29, 1971, of the premeditated murder of 22 Vietnamese civilians. On March 31, 1971, Calley was sentenced to life imprisonment and hard labor at Fort Leavenworth,[11] which includes the United States Disciplinary Barracks, the Department of Defense's only maximum security prison.

So - definitely convicted

However ...

On April 1, 1971, only a day after Calley was sentenced, President Richard Nixon ordered him transferred from Leavenworth prison to house arrest at Fort Benning, pending appeal. This leniency was protested by Melvin Laird, the secretary of defense. On August 20, 1971, the convening authority—the commanding general of Fort Benning—reduced Calley's sentence to 20 years. The Court of Military Review affirmed both the conviction and sentence (46 C.M.R. 1131 (1973)). The Secretary of the Army reviewed the sentence and findings and approved both, but in a separate clemency action commuted confinement to 10 years. On May 3, 1974, President Nixon notified the secretary that he had reviewed the case and determined he would take no further action in the matter.

Ultimately, Calley served only three and a half years of house arrest in his quarters at Fort Benning. He petitioned the federal district court for habeas corpus on February 11, 1974, which was granted on September 25, 1974, along with his immediate release, by federal judge J. Robert Elliott. Judge Elliott found that Calley's trial had been prejudiced by pre-trial publicity, denial of subpoenas of certain defense witnesses, refusal of the United States House of Representatives to release testimony taken in executive session of its My Lai investigation, and inadequate notice of the charges. (The judge had released Calley on bail on February 27, 1974, but an appeals court reversed it and returned Calley to U.S. Army custody on June 13, 1974.) Later in 1974, President Nixon tacitly issued Calley a limited presidential pardon. Consequently, his general court-martial conviction and dismissal from the U.S. Army were upheld; however, the prison sentence and subsequent parole obligations were commuted to time served, leaving Calley a free man.[8]

[Katman]

I suspect that if you were to ask any Commander - they would all say that they don't want innocents to die. Which would kinda prove my point.

This isn't Call of Duty we're talking about here.

[TheDemonLord]

Yes - but what do YOU think the difference is?

Well for a start, Countries have Armies, that have uniforms. Countries can declare war, Countries are bound by things such as the Geneva convention (if they are a signatory of it).


Not for the dead women and children there isn't ..

Granted, I doubt the intent is of little comfort to them and their loved ones - but that is the wages of war.


That'as plainly stupid .. not your usual ...

Sarcasm and parody are perfectly acceptable - and serve to highlight the irrational position that some have taken with regards to one groups actions over another.


Do you seriously think that the US will ADMIT to deliberately targeting women and children ?? The moment they do they will face massive international condemnation ...

Are you seriously suggesting that the US would deliberately target them? Without talking Morals and other things that can be argued about - lets talk raw dollars and cents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire

The cost for the UCAV variant of the Hellfire is $65,000, lets assume for the sake of lazy maths that the Drone and the Hellfire teleported to the combat zone. Are you seriously suggesting that the US would waste that amount of money just to kill insignificant women and children?


There are other terrorists and terrorist groups - those two certainly target women and children ... but they don't do it to create terror in the citizenery and change Government's minds - they do it for their own ends - genocide, sexual gratification or recruitment ... that doesn't make it right either ...

But I thought we were talking about bigger players in th arena ..

I dunno, ISIS seem to be doing quite well at creating terror in their own citizenry....

[TheDemonLord]

As has already been said, if intelligence suggests that there are innocent civilians in the vicinity of the intended target and the attack is carried out regardless, then yes, they were targeted.

When the Police go on a high speed chase, that ends in a crash, that kills an innocent member of the public.

Was that Member targeted?

Afterall the Police decided to go on the chase knowing that there is other traffic on the road.

[Katman]

Are you seriously suggesting that the US would deliberately target them? Without talking Morals and other things that can be argued about - lets talk raw dollars and cents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire

The cost for the UCAV variant of the Hellfire is $65,000, lets assume for the sake of lazy maths that the Drone and the Hellfire teleported to the combat zone. Are you seriously suggesting that the US would waste that amount of money just to kill insignificant women and children?


What do the figures of 1147 for 41 indicate to you?

(And no, it's not a cricket score).

[husaberg]

What do the figures of 1147 for 41 indicate to you?

(And no, it's not a cricket score).


What do the figures of 1147 for 41 indicate to you?

(And no, it's not a cricket score).

Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, terrorists have fired more than 11,000 rockets into Israel.
Has Israel fired that many rockets or missiles against civilians in the Gazza strip?

[TheDemonLord]

What do the figures of 1147 for 41 indicate to you?

(And no, it's not a cricket score).

I'm pretty sure I said:


If we are going to discuss America's use of Drones, I would tend to suggest that the failure is not with the accuracy of the technology, but with the accuracy of the intelligence - but given the numbers presented - it would be correct to condemn America's use of drones while such a high incidence of Collateral deaths is occuring.

but since you are attempting to rebut my comment about using Hellfires to kill kiddies making no sense - a Mk 84 2000 pound dumb would both do more damage (and kill more Women and Children) and all for the cost of $3100 per unit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_84_bomb

for the cost of a single hellfire - you could lay down 20 Mk84's - if your goal truly was to target the civilians, it would be a far more economical (and devastating) option.

[Katman]

but since you are attempting to rebut my comment about using Hellfires to kill kiddies making no sense - a Mk 84 2000 pound dumb would both do more damage (and kill more Women and Children) and all for the cost of $3100 per unit.


This must be what trying to teach a special needs class is like.

What I am saying is that clearly America doesn't give a fuck what waging war costs.

Plenty of Americans are making vast fortunes from it.

[TheDemonLord]

What I am saying is that clearly America doesn't give a fuck what waging war costs.

Plenty of Americans are making vast fortunes from it.

Suppose I were to agree with that notion - it still does not prove that America is Targeting women and children.

Does it prove that America doesn't care who lives and dies - yes
Does it prove that America's current choice of tactics result in a large amount of collateral deaths - yes

but it does not prove that they are targeting them.

If they were targeting them, then there are ways to do it more effectively and far cheaper than the current method.

[dinosaur]

what about the poor buggers sitting up on the Parliament building ...... did they target some innocent woman and children? Or were they the victims? or are they Americans? or ........ fucked if I know what you guys are arguing about


oh that's right ..... American drones in Gaza targeting greenpeace

or was it ISIL terrorists at Parliament killing Israeli woman and children?


equal land rights for gay whales, I say

[mashman]

Point of order - I said continue the mission

I suspect that if you were to ask any Commander - they would all say that they don't want innocents to die. Which would kinda prove my point.

Aha.

I'm sure they go to war with aspirations of 0 civilian casualties let alone anything else and I'm damned sure that they have some seriously fucked up tough decisions to make... although I would expect them to know the difference between collateral kills v's choosing to murder someone, so no, I don't believe that comes anywhere near to proving anything that you claim.

[TheDemonLord]

Aha.

I'm sure they go to war with aspirations of 0 civilian casualties let alone anything else and I'm damned sure that they have some seriously fucked up tough decisions to make... although I would expect them to know the difference between collateral kills v's choosing to murder someone, so no, I don't believe that comes anywhere near to proving anything that you claim.

I am going to now take a tip toe out of the area from which I can reasonably argue and suggest that the technicality of 'it will probably kill them' vs the saying 'it will definitely kill them' is both how they avoid intent and also sleep easy at night.

[mashman]

equal land rights for gay whales, I say

They already have them. Stop saying that they don't and your quest will be fulfilled ;)

[husaberg]

They already have them. Stop saying that they don't and your quest will be fulfilled ;)

But the ocean is now so full of hormones from birth control pills that all the sperm whales are now firing blanks.

[mashman]

I am going to now take a tip toe out of the area from which I can reasonably argue and suggest that the technicality of 'it will probably kill them' vs the saying 'it will definitely kill them' is both how they avoid intent and also sleep easy at night.

lol... it's all in the spin. What's the average explosive radius of ye olde blowing up drone bomb thing? :shifty:

I guess they sleep well at night because they've seen war and already done stuff that'd have us heaving all over the place. Some will handle it, some won't. Wouldn't wanna do the job personally, and would rather they didn't have to either.

[Maha]

But the ocean is now so full of hormones from birth control pills that all the sperm whales are now firing blanks.

Reminds of a backpackers we saw down Dunners way few years ago:confused:

[mashman]

But the ocean is now so full of hormones from birth control pills that all the sperm whales are now firing blanks.

:rofl: But female sperm whales don't shoot blanks. I now know the perfect man to perform any insemination protocols that are employed.

[Katman]

I am going to now take a tip toe out of the area from which I can reasonably argue and suggest that the technicality of 'it will probably kill them' vs the saying 'it will definitely kill them' is both how they avoid intent and also sleep easy at night.

Yeah, you should probably stick to your computer games.

[husaberg]

:rofl: But female sperm whales don't shoot blanks. I now know the perfect man to perform any insemination protocols that are employed.

dude the hormones make the males impotent too its like science shit................Get yourself a prescription and we will see if your wee willy winky wont work well...........
PS I would be a great opportunity to see if the Axel can indeed breath underwater for long periods.:bleh:

[husaberg]

Reminds of a backpackers we saw down Dunners way few years ago:confused:

I heard Greenpeace and PETA were clubbing to death Minke whales.

[RDJ]

And I heard Katman is going to be the next UN SecGen. Which would be an awesomely perfect fit.

[husaberg]

And I heard Katman is going to be the next UN SecGen. Which would be an awesomely perfect fit.

At least he won't need to wax his legs. It would be hilarious sitting in on the psychometric test.

[RDJ]

this is a good thread to follow on the night shift, waiting for calls to come in from other time zones... I am already prepped for bizarre queries thanks to Katman!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana:

[mashman]

dude the hormones make the males impotent too its like science shit................Get yourself a prescription and we will see if your wee willy winky wont work well...........
PS I would be a great opportunity to see if the Axel can indeed breath underwater for long periods.:bleh:

Bet they know it too, hence beachings. If it ain't broke, there ain't no need for me to fix it.
No one can breathe underwater for 7 days.

[husaberg]

Bet they know it too, hence beachings. If it ain't broke, there ain't no need for me to fix it.
No one can breathe underwater for 7 days.

Those buggers refloating those whales are just starving the seagulls.
As for underwater breathing I am willing to bet Axel can, I would also be glad to be proven wrong.:lol:

[mashman]

Those bugger refloating those whales are just starving the seagulls.
As for underwater breathing I am willing to bet Axel can, I would also be glad to be proven wrong.:lol:

The refuse dumps get a bit full if they're busy with the whales.
Aye, that cunt's smart enough to figure anything out... it'd be fun watching you wait.

[husaberg]

The refuse dumps get a bit full if they're busy with the whales.
Aye, that cunt's smart enough to figure anything out... it'd be fun watching you wait.
Those whales are just fish with better PR I bet they are not even toilet trained
I have a long attention span I bet I could wait him out.

[Maha]

And I heard Katman is going to be the next UN SecGen. Which would be an awesomely perfect fit.

It's fancy dress and he's is going dressed as a Whale penis, or a Dork as it is more commonly known.

[husaberg]

It's fancy dress and he's is going dressed as a Whale penis, or a Dork as it is more commonly known.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Southpark_1215be_274035.jpg

[mashman]

Those whales are just fish with better PR I bet they are not even toilet trained
I have a long attention span I bet I could wait him out.

True. Mammals my arse, you look like a big fish, you swim like a big fish, you're just a big fuckin fish.
I guarantee you could, coz moron is easy.

[husaberg]

True. Mammals my arse, you look like a big fish, you swim like a big fish, you're just a big fuckin fish.
I guarantee you could, coz moron is easy.

I doubt axel get much opportunity to sleep around with the non caprine mammilla.
But he could sleep with the fishes I would even dig into my pockets for some new boots for him. That's a concrete offer you can bank on it.

[rambaldi]

True. Mammals my arse, you look like a big fish, you swim like a big fish, you're just a big fuckin fish.
I guarantee you could, coz moron is easy.

They don't swim like fish, their tales go up/down rather than side to side.

[mashman]

They don't swim like fish, their tales go up/down rather than side to side.

Shit man, my whole world's crashing about my eyes. Next someone's gonna tell me there's no gay whales.

[Berries]

Shit man, my whole world's crashing about my eyes. Next someone's gonna tell me there's no gay whales.
Found one.

[mashman]

Found one.

How does he swim?

[Katman]

I am going to now take a tip toe out of the area from which I can reasonably argue and suggest that the technicality of 'it will probably kill them' vs the saying 'it will definitely kill them' is both how they avoid intent and also sleep easy at night.

Here's another way of looking at it.

If the kill radius of a drone explosion is known then you could draw a circle around the epicentre of the intended strike point.

Everyone inside that circle has therefore been 'targeted' - even if they happen to be women and children.

[TheDemonLord]

Here's another way of looking at it.

If the kill radius of a drone explosion is known then you could draw a circle around the epicentre of the intended strike point.

Everyone inside that circle has therefore been 'targeted' - even if they happen to be women and children.

Please.

Pickup a Dictionary.

And understand the definition of the words you are using.

As an FYI - the lethal radius of a Hellfire is 20 meters (everyone inside that radius has a 50% chance of death - so, even using your mangled interpretation of words - it is still not targeted)

(Source: https://www.law.stanford.edu/news/the-drone-war-may-be-popular-in-the-us-and-illegal)

for comparison - a 500 pound Mk 82 Bomb has a lethal radius of 100 meters.

[Katman]

<img src="http://blogs-images.forbes.com/ericbasu/files/2014/02/target-3.jpg"/>

[mashman]

bomb darts

Careful, you could take out the Chinese embassy in the wrong country with one of those things... which was originally written off as nought more than collateral damage... until the truth found its way out. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/17/balkans)

[Banditbandit]

What I am saying is that clearly America doesn't give a fuck what waging war costs.

Plenty of Americans are making vast fortunes from it.


Suppose I were to agree with that notion - it still does not prove that America is Targeting women and children.

Does it prove that America doesn't care who lives and dies - yes
Does it prove that America's current choice of tactics result in a large amount of collateral deaths - yes

but it does not prove that they are targeting them.

If they were targeting them, then there are ways to do it more effectively and far cheaper than the current method.


We all know that in a war women and children and other innocent civilians get killed. Always. Always - it's a known outcome of war.

Women and children are dying and we are arguing semantics of whether they are targeted or not ...

Come on people .. let's have some reality here ...



l

I guess they sleep well at night because they've seen war and already done stuff that'd have us heaving all over the place. Some will handle it, some won't. Wouldn't wanna do the job personally, and would rather they didn't have to either.


Yes - have a look t the incidents of PTSD and suicide, homelessness and alcoholism of US troops returning home .. they don't handle it well.



I heard Greenpeace and PETA were clubbing to death Minke whales.

http://tn.en.fishki.net/26/upload/en/201301/28/5414/ecc7e99cd7b91ee13af1b580b52b18ad.jpg

[mashman]

Yes - have a look t the incidents of PTSD and suicide, homelessness and alcoholism of US troops returning home .. they don't handle it well.

I have and as you say, it ain't a pretty picture in the slightest and a feckload of murcans are moderately unhappy about how their veterans are being treated. Sadly it's not a priority for their govt, because they can't afford to fund recovery for so many :facepalm:

[RDJ]

Thread hijack: so KatMan, when is the last time you actually Rode a Motorcycle and commented on That Ride? I mean we all get that the US is the most Evil Empire ever to have Bestrode - as a Murderous Colossus - the Face of the GAIA The Planet, crushing innocent Women and Children under its Uncaring Sadistic Heels... because we hear it from you all over the place. ISIS is by comparison a Necessary Kindergarten Counterpoint. But every now and then you do take time off from being a Social Justice Warrior to Enjoy an actual Ride, yes? (Although maybe you can't, because the 'Muricans manufacture so many Custom Motorcycle Parts it is probably very difficult to find a bike or accessories Untainted by the Evil Empire. But I digress).

I'm guessing, you don't go to Sturgis just because you don't want to be an Accomplice. But if you do, I'll buy you a beer there first week in August. But: Trigger Warning - it will be a US-brewed beer...

[Katman]

Thread hijack: so KatMan, when is the last time you actually Rode a Motorcycle and commented on That Ride?

The last time I rode a motorcycle was about 5 minutes ago and why the fuck would I comment on it?

[husaberg]

Thread hijack: so KatMan, when is the last time you actually Rode a Motorcycle and commented on That Ride? I mean we all get that the US is the most Evil Empire ever to have Bestrode - as a Murderous Colossus - the Face of the GAIA The Planet, crushing innocent Women and Children under its Uncaring Sadistic Heels... because we hear it from you all over the place. ISIS is by comparison a Necessary Kindergarten Counterpoint. But every now and then you do take time off from being a Social Justice Warrior to Enjoy an actual Ride, yes? (Although maybe you can't, because the 'Muricans manufacture so many Custom Motorcycle Parts it is probably very difficult to find a bike or accessories Untainted by the Evil Empire. But I digress).

I'm guessing, you don't go to Sturgis just because you don't want to be an Accomplice. But if you do, I'll buy you a beer there first week in August. But: Trigger Warning - it will be a US-brewed beer...

RDJ he can't travel by plane, he clearly knows too much about all these conspiracies. It will be flight 370 all over again.
That's not even considering the Chem trails....:corn:

[RDJ]

The last time I rode a motorcycle was about 5 minutes ago and why the fuck would I comment on it?

That's really terrific. Within five minutes of parking your bike you are back on the Internet. I wish I was that time and motion efficient / sarc.

Actually, I really should not bait you. You have issues, and I should sympathise.

[RDJ]

RDJ he can't travel by plane, he clearly knows too much about all these conspiracies. It will be flight 370 all over again.

I know, I feel bad. Well I'll be back at work in one hour and 40 minutes and that will necessarily constrain both Internet access to non-work-related sites, and my sad tendency to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmored witless.

[Katman]

Well I'll be back at work in one hour and 40 minutes.

Make sure you tell us all about the next temperature you check.

[RDJ]

Make sure you tell us about the next temperature you check.

Nope - confidentiality.

[husaberg]

Nope - confidentiality.

Sounds like another conspiracy what are you trying to hide.......:msn-wink:

[RDJ]

Sounds like another conspiracy what are trying to hide.......:msn-wink:

Oops - I got caught! just goes to show, it is so difficult to keep up with the many bubbling conspiracies that we should be perhaps more forgiving of those who suspect a conspiracy around every corner... Or maybe not. Nah!

[husaberg]

Oops - I got caught! just goes to show, it is so difficult to keep up with the many bubbling conspiracies that we should be perhaps more forgiving of those who suspect a conspiracy around every corner... Or maybe not. Nah!

You must never admit only deny, So where were you when JFK was shot and when Norm Kirk died, plus when Harold Holt disappeared. We need answers what do you know.

[RDJ]

Would a full-on grovel saying "I was too young!" be okay?

[husaberg]

Would a full-on grovel saying "I was too young!" be okay?

That would only make you a better assassin, make you a less obvious suspect........;)

[Swoop]

OP must be French.

Why? Was he waving his hands around while he was talking?:scratch:

[mada]

Why? Was he waving his hands around while he was talking?:scratch:

Nah, they viewed Greenpeace as "terrorists" and used this view to justify use of explosives in Auckland Harbour (clearly not a Terrorist Act though).

[husaberg]

Nah, they viewed Greenpeace as "terrorists" and used this view to justify use of explosives in Auckland Harbour (clearly not a Terrorist Act though).

I doubt that ever happened.............. pretty sure there would be plenty of sites on the net that would say it was a misunderstanding...........

[JimO]

Nah, they viewed Greenpeace as "terrorists" and used this view to justify use of explosives in Auckland Harbour (clearly not a Terrorist Act though).
i did 3 years of french at high school does that count

[RDJ]

Nah, they viewed Greenpeace as "terrorists" and used this view to justify use of explosives in Auckland Harbour (clearly not a Terrorist Act though).

I don't know anybody who doesn't think this was a official act of state sponsored terrorism by the French government of the day...

[husaberg]

I don't know anybody who doesn't think this was a official act of state sponsored terrorism by the French government of the day...
To be fair you did say who thinks which might rule out the obvious:laugh:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/70/c9/b7/70c9b725208876a34ffd80ecdd8ac941.jpg

[caseye]

I don't know anybody who doesn't think this was a official act of state sponsored terrorism by the French government of the day...

Same as what he said! The Frogs sanctioned it, they sponsored it, they financed it,they still think we're a back water without the nouse to know we're being conned. I don't hate! all people from France, some I know and love, but in general, give me a bloody Kraut before you gave me a snivelling gutless frog! and they hung ol Lange out to dry with not one of the other Western world countries coming to his aid when he jailed their fucking useless agents saboteurs.
The heralds exposee last week took a damn long time to read but it got it almost 100% right.

[ellipsis]

they still think we're a back water without the nouse to know we're being conned.



...well they have that right...

[Swoop]

I doubt that ever happened...............

Sadly it did. I physically stood aboard the RW the morning after it was sunk.


Fucking cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

[husaberg]

Sadly it did. I physically stood aboard the RW the morning after it was sunk.


Fucking cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

It was more a tongue in cheek reply given the proclivity of some around here to deny stuff happens just because they found some agenda based website with a conspiracy which overrides all other evidence to the contrary.

[Swoop]

It was more a tongue in cheek reply given the proclivity of some around here to deny stuff happens just because they found some agenda based website with a conspiracy which overrides all other evidence to the contrary.

I realized.

Luckily I was on a stage in front of a film crew, who were all poisoned before the final footage was released.

[husaberg]

I realized.

Luckily I was on a stage in front of a film crew, who were all poisoned before the final footage was released.

With garlic?..........Normally people would give you credence cause you were there, but meh, to a KB conspiracy theorists, being there that just means you might be in on the cover up. too:corn:

[RDJ]

I think one of the problems with this event is that people think of it as the 'Rainbow Warrior' bombing.

It was in fact, the 'Fernando Pereira murder' by agents of the French government, and the French government got away with that, because of their political clout.

The bombing of the boat had been designed to make the ship unsalvageable. The first smaller bomb bent the shaft, making repair uneconomic. Pereira stayed inside the boat to get his camera and other pieces of equipment. The second, more powerful explosion, designed to sink the boat, caused a huge inrush of seawater and drowned Fernando.

State-sanctioned murder of an innocent civilian. Very common, but that does not mean it should be overlooked.

[yokel]

Greenpeace is now a government/cooperate shill out fit, hence their 'terrorists' actions.

will the real rainbow warrior please stand up, not the fucking gay pride one ether!

https://yeehawranchmamasheri.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/hopiprophecy.jpg

[Voltaire]

Greenpeace is now a government/cooperate shill out fit, hence their 'terrorists' actions.

will the real rainbow warrior please stand up, not the fucking gay pride one ether!

https://yeehawranchmamasheri.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/hopiprophecy.jpg

government/cooperate:facepalm:

That's bollocks and here is the reference.

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/English-Grammar-for-Dummies-good-spelling-and-grammar-936124_359_450.jpg

I think the big word you were looking for is C O R P O R A T E

[puddytat]

[QUOTE=yokel;1130880080]
Wank,wank,wank etc etc.......
QUOTE]

Jeez man, wot the fuck you on Bro?
Tell me so I don't make the same mistake.....

[yokel]

government/cooperate:facepalm:

That's bollocks and here is the reference.


I think the big word you were looking for is C O R P O R A T E


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b9/b94898abf8e0ca1a2a34188b1b3364d0ae905edc5a1497fac7 78450cdd9f1b78.jpg

[FJRider]

Greenpeace is now a government/cooperate shill out fit, hence their 'terrorists' actions.

Installing spell check might help ... ;)


will the real rainbow warrior please stand up, not the fucking gay pride one ether!



Say's the "man" with the rainbow Avatar ... :whistle:

[Voltaire]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b9/b94898abf8e0ca1a2a34188b1b3364d0ae905edc5a1497fac7 78450cdd9f1b78.jpg

Grammar Nazi?

How is someone who cannot tell the difference between a co-operative and a Corporate waffle on about the Holocaust when clearly barely able to read. :facepalm:

[RDJ]

Grammar Nazi?

How is someone who cannot tell the difference between a co-operative and a Corporate waffle on about the Holocaust when clearly barely able to read. :facepalm:

"half of the population is dumber than average"

When I meet someone who disputes this statement - often vehemently - I know where to locate them on the curve...

[bogan]

"half of the population is dumber than average"

When I meet someone who disputes this statement - often vehemently - I know where to locate them on the curve...

Common mythconception about how averages work, as such a statement depends on the intelligence measure and distribution, now if you'd said median; you'd be right.

[RDJ]

Common mythconception about how averages work, as such a statement depends on the intelligence measure and distribution, now if you'd said median; you'd be right.

I'm going to go all dictionary on you and quote the dictionary definition back atcha ;)

average: a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

[bogan]

I'm going to go all dictionary on you and quote the dictionary definition back atcha ;)

average: a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.


You would like me to explain it to you then, yes?

Most commonly the mean, dividing sum by count. One very high individual value can thus push the average very high, as the average is pushed a smidge higher, more than half can go under. Or vice-versa if you got some special sort of dumbarses.

[yokel]

Grammar Nazi?

How is someone who cannot tell the difference between a co-operative and a Corporate waffle on about the Holocaust when clearly barely able to read. :facepalm:

I can read but not spell, I was meaning Corporate, as in a non living entity like a corps/dead body.

[RDJ]

You would like me to explain it to you then, yes?

Most commonly the mean, dividing sum by count. One very high individual value can thus push the average very high, as the average is pushed a smidge higher, more than half can go under. Or vice-versa if you got some special sort of dumbarses.

nah, still don't get a significant difference between your definition and the dictionary's. But then I don't have a Bachelor of Arts degree :scooter:

(reason for the snide comment: the majority of politicians in our government have BA's; second most common qualification LLB. And look at the mess we are in)

[bogan]

nah, still don't get a significant difference between your definition and the dictionary's. But then I don't have a Bachelor of Arts degree :scooter:

Exactly, they are in complete agreement.

Just start eating cereal, I hear they put em at the bottom of the boxes.

[RDJ]

Exactly, they are in complete agreement.

Just start eating cereal, I hear they put em at the bottom of the boxes.

I never wanted to be a cereal killer, the Guvvermin' made me do it!!

(I apologise in advance, that is bad even for a Sunday evening.)

[yokel]

"half of the population is dumber than average"

When I meet someone who disputes this statement - often vehemently - I know where to locate them on the curve...

Hahaha was that bogan bait?

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”


― George Carlin

[RDJ]

Hahaha was that bogan bait?

Actually no... I am on backup oncall duty so - no riding, no drinking, limited chocolate & steak intake - but tied to a computer anyway... so amusing myself :whistle::whistle::whistle:

[FJRider]

I'm going to go all dictionary on you and quote the dictionary definition back atcha ;)

average: a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.


Bogan is (cough cough) correct ... median/mean is the term you tried (and failed) to convey.

Some schools have a higher average pass rate in exams than other schools ... meaning that their is intelligence is higher as they've (usually) been taught better.

Obviously NOT one of the schools you've attended.

Average is the mathmatical principal ... and can rise (and fall) .... with only some degree of predictability ...

[RDJ]

Some schools have a higher average pass rate in exams than other schools ... meaning that their is intelligence is higher as they've (usually) been taught better. Obviously NOT one of the schools you've attended.

True dat. I am an original redneck-neighborhood low-decile state-school graduate. And that's fine by me :motu:

[Voltaire]

I can read but not spell, I was meaning Corporate, as in a non living entity like a corps/dead body.

This bloke had a good corps
http://www.patchesofpride.com/images/splashpics3/DAKrommel.jpg

[R650R]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11782457

The audio wasn't 100% clear so I've provided a transcript....

"Amazon Warrior, Amazon Warrior, this is Margeret Mahy Greenpeace RIB, yep over here us the Boats made from oil products and Aluminium mining wearing synthetic jackets calling you on our plastic encased radio while cruising out here with our 150hp petroleum powered engines, cause sending an email was just too good for the environment. We are filming this so our supporters can watch on their plastic tv's some running on coal and gas derived electricity."

"Margeret Mahy this is Amazon warrior minding our own business cheers cazzzz"

All joking aside about hypocracy of greenpeace is this affecting our marine life.... conspiracy theorists will say its an earthquake weapon boart too......

[Katman]

All power and respect to them.

Regarding the bullshit fallacy of hypocrisy - I'm sure that if the powers that be allowed it, Greenpeace would replace their equipment with equivalents made out of hemp.

[Woodman]

All power and respect to them.

Regarding the bullshit fallacy of hypocrisy - I'm sure that if the powers that be allowed it, Greenpeace would replace their equipment with equivalents made out of hemp.

Agreed, we need Greenpeace.

[puddytat]

Well it sounds like they are trying to get consents for Tasman Bay as well.....I reckon if the try to do any exploratory wells or seismic testing you will see protests at sea similar to the No Nukes flotillas.

[Grumph]

Oh dear - did that bring back memories....An old mate of ny father's was prosecuted for having an offensive weapon on his boat while protesting in Lyttelton...

A small hatchet for cutting firewood to fuel his on board stove...

laughed out of court.

[ellipsis]

No wonder the government are seeking to introduce a law to make protest at sea an act of terrorism.

...forty five P class dinghys could surround the Navy and a puncture would keep our Air Force out of the air...they need as much on their side as they can produce...

[Zedder]

All joking aside about hypocracy of greenpeace is this affecting our marine life.... conspiracy theorists will say its an earthquake weapon boart too......


1: Marine life and seismic airguns: https://www.cbd.int/doc/meetings/mar/mcbem-2014-01/other/mcbem-2014-01-submission-seismic-airgun-en.pdf

2: Not an earthquake weapon.

Incidently, Greenpeace got the Lego company to stop marketing their products through Shell's petrol stations.

[R650R]

Incidently, Greenpeace got the Lego company to stop marketing their products through Shell's petrol stations.

That's so freaking hilarious.... stop selling plastic toys alongsidem your petroleum products.....
They prob did it to shut greenpeace up about the Niger Delta........

[puddytat]

Good to see that Sea Shepherd is on to those fucking Jap cunts. Again.

[R650R]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11782457

The audio wasn't 100% clear so I've provided a transcript....

"Amazon Warrior, Amazon Warrior, this is Margeret Mahy Greenpeace RIB, yep over here us the Boats made from oil products and Aluminium mining wearing synthetic jackets calling you on our plastic encased radio while cruising out here with our 150hp petroleum powered engines, cause sending an email was just too good for the environment. We are filming this so our supporters can watch on their plastic tv's some running on coal and gas derived electricity."

"Margeret Mahy this is Amazon warrior minding our own business cheers cazzzz"

All joking aside about hypocracy of greenpeace is this affecting our marine life.... conspiracy theorists will say its an earthquake weapon boart too......

HHHHHhhhhmmmmmmmmm.....

http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:178/centery:-40/zoom:9

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/89303624/surviving-whales-to-be-left-alone-overnight