Safety improvements on the `takas

[F5 Dave]

Well this is probably old news to many Wellingtonians but I managed to get out for my first ride over the hill since April, to find they have put in some extra cat's eyes over the yellow centrelines. Like every 2 inches.

First thought was how much did that cost?

But second is to wonder about the mindset of the people who signed that off. Clearly people are breaking the law. Let's make it more dangerous.

Stray a front wheel over those while leant over and yer going down. Probably into oncoming traffic.

OK so you shouldn't be crossing the yellow line the pendants will proclaim. Well people clearly were, and still will as they get frustrated with the slow traffic.

But also it will get riders who make an error and overshoot a little. Happens all the time on that road. And the road gets wet and verry windy. Small (ok not that small but and extra inch will do it) error now big consequence.

[pzkpfw]

If there was more room they'd put cheese graters the whole way.
.

[mossy1200]

Noticed them. Wont be long before someone on a bad approach to a corner goes down with the damp corners at this time of year. A yellow line passer will get caught out.

[James Deuce]

Rode to work yesterday and I was more perturbed by the mirror finish asphalt. It's very smooth and I am grateful for that but it was very slick when damp and the reflection off the road surface on full beam was, well, quite brilliant.

[caspernz]

Crikey! Cats eyes on top of the double yellows? Almost sounds like the fella who suggested the wire barrier (and got shot down) pondered: "What's the next most dangerous road safety feature (sic) I can put in there?"

Before the various improvements were made to the Rimutaka Hill road, at least there were a number of passing lanes and other opportunities to pass. Almost seems like now that the road has been realigned near the top, naff all passing lanes left, double yellows all the way...someone in an office has completed their mission :weep::mad:

[MD]

Placing cats eys to cause any stray bikers to crash was their second option. Option 1 proved too expensive and difficult to import IEDs from the Jihadists in Syria or Iraq.

Next week they are placing rusty razor blades protruding along the armco as "educational influences" to discourage bikes riding the hill.

My first thought when I saw those cats eyes camouflaged on the yellow lines was, ulch! hit those at your peril. NZTA- we're here for your safety- NOT

[Maha]

Locals should lobby for a motorcycle only lane, failing that, ride to the conditions.









p/t just testing the Wellingtonian Humometer

[Edbear]

Crikey! Cats eyes on top of the double yellows? Almost sounds like the fella who suggested the wire barrier (and got shot down) pondered: "What's the next most dangerous road safety feature (sic) I can put in there?"

Before the various improvements were made to the Rimutaka Hill road, at least there were a number of passing lanes and other opportunities to pass. Almost seems like now that the road has been realigned near the top, naff all passing lanes left, double yellows all the way...someone in an office has completed their mission :weep::mad:


Placing cats eys to cause any stray bikers to crash was their second option. Option 1 proved too expensive and difficult to import IEDs from the Jihadists in Syria or Iraq.

Next week they are placing rusty razor blades protruding along the armco as "educational influences" to discourage bikes riding the hill.

My first thought when I saw those cats eyes camouflaged on the yellow lines was, ulch! hit those at your peril. NZTA- we're here for your safety- NOT

Shirley, the purpose of Cat's Eyes is that they reflect the headlights back at you and indicate the direction of the corner and you would naturally avoid them, since they would be clearly visible?


Locals should lobby for a motorcycle only lane, failing that, ride to the conditions.




p/t just testing the Wellingtonian Humometer

Just what are you suggesting Maha..? :rolleyes:

[Bald Eagle]

NZTA traffic safety only applies to vehicles with 4 or more wheels, anything less is not a vehicle. MSAC would be pleased. Oops I meant ACC.

[OddDuck]

The catseyes are fucking stupid. If you look closer you'll see that they've even put aggressive rumble finish on the double yellows, just to make absolutely sure that your tyres are airborne while you're banked over.

This isn't about 'safety'. This is about control. They want us toeing their line, and they're prepared to enforce that by having bikers slide under trucks.

Social and safe design of that hill road would be provision of bike-only overtake lanes in straights just after corners, the little lanes that are only a meter wide.

[Paul in NZ]

As much as it hurts to loose a bit of our playground... Motorcycles are just another vehicle that does actually have to comply to the rules and regulations. These improvements (if you can call it that) are designed to control and smooth traffic so the majority complete their journeys safely. You cant ask for special treatment or you run the risk of being singled out in other less appealing areas like ACC... oh - hang on..... :mad:

[MD]

Shirley, the purpose of Cat's Eyes is that they reflect the headlights back at you and indicate the direction of the corner and you would naturally avoid them, since they would be clearly visible?



:

Please stop calling me Shirley. The concern is you enter a bend, see an oil spill (regular on that hill) and you can see no head on traffic so you are forced to go wide, just six inches over the centre line will save you. Oops, instant crash. These dangerous cats eye limit our options.

In saying that I often complain about 4 wheelers and other bikes cutting corners and these may discourage that. Although for 4 wheelers the cats eyes are nothing but a minor noise and discomfort. For a rider on a damp day they may kill.

[roogazza]

Placing cats eys to cause any stray bikers to crash was their second option. Option 1 proved too expensive and difficult to import IEDs from the Jihadists in Syria or Iraq.

Next week they are placing rusty razor blades protruding along the armco as "educational influences" to discourage bikes riding the hill.

My first thought when I saw those cats eyes camouflaged on the yellow lines was, ulch! hit those at your peril. NZTA- we're here for your safety- NOT

I miss my Sunday fang over there, 50 years of it !!!
70s' and 80s' were great but for the last 15 yrs its been in steady decline.
So glad to have had all those years of just a little white line down the middle and the subtle warm up over the Kaitokes' before the hill.
Doubt I'd go there by choice now,having moved anyway.

:mellow:

[Edbear]

Please stop calling me Shirley. The concern is you enter a bend, see an oil spill (regular on that hill) and you can see no head on traffic so you are forced to go wide, just six inches over the centre line will save you. Oops, instant crash. These dangerous cats eye limit our options.

In saying that I often complain about 4 wheelers and other bikes cutting corners and these may discourage that. Although for 4 wheelers the cats eyes are nothing but a minor noise and discomfort. For a rider on a damp day they may kill.

Of course you're right, about that. I found them unsettling just riding over the ones on the white lines on the motorways when changing lanes. I always avoided white and yellow lines for that very reason, but hitting them while leaned over is a butt pinching experience even if you don't fall off!

Hmmm... I could call you, "Often", "Seldom", or "Out" I suppose... :wacko:

[Tazz]

If you're overshooting corners on that hill often enough to be worried about cats eyes and rumble strips, you have bigger issues that need your attention first...

[F5 Dave]

And so it begins.

Yes Tazz you are quite right. But there are often accidents on that road with bikes. Guys do get it wrong from inexperienced to the gungho. There will be countless more small errors occurring.

But consequence of one small error just touching the yellow line whilst leaned over having misjudged the corner, not crossing over, will likely cause you to cross over on your side.

It has become more dangerous.

[Tazz]

It begun a while back :p

Yep, more dangerous, however painted lines are already 'dangerous' to bikes. A row of cats eyes is only slightly worse than a freshly painted solid white outer, even if it's not covered in rain.

Moral: Don't touch them while you're unleashing your inner Rossi.

What happens if you do: You hope like hell nothing is coming the other way, just as you would if they weren't there...hence the 'bigger issues' comment if you're already over that far.

Just another hazard on the road to be mindful of and still better than cheese cutters or a solid concrete division.

[F5 Dave]

This has been touched on in another thread but who choose the design of the generic bike on the high risk root erm route signs at the bottom? Looks like some Paris Dakkar clone with an odd swingarm that shouldn't work.
Talk about choosing to appeal to your target audience. Do they think Charlie Boorman is a particular risk?

[jellywrestler]

Well this is probably old news to many Wellingtonians but I managed to get out for my first ride over the hill since April, to find they have put in some extra cat's eyes over the yellow centrelines. Like every 2 inches.

First thought was how much did that cost?

But second is to wonder about the mindset of the people who signed that off. Clearly people are breaking the law. Let's make it more dangerous.

Stray a front wheel over those while leant over and yer going down. Probably into oncoming traffic.

OK so you shouldn't be crossing the yellow line the pendants will proclaim. Well people clearly were, and still will as they get frustrated with the slow traffic.

But also it will get riders who make an error and overshoot a little. Happens all the time on that road. And the road gets wet and verry windy. Small (ok not that small but and extra inch will do it) error now big consequence.
report it to the motorcycle safety action council

[Kickaha]

Another way to avoid the problem would be to buy a tighter cornering bike if you are worried about going over the center line when you corner.

You really are a special kind of stupid

[nodrog]

You really are a special kind of stupid

he must be from the south island.

[Tazz]

he must be from the south island.
Fark off. Thats Raoul Island material.

[Dogboy900]

I think the rumble strips are a stupid idea. They could potentially make a minor error into a serious crash.
All very well to say don't hit them then but accidents and mistakes happen.
I get out on that hill whenever I can and the accidents I have seen have been inexperienced riders running wide on bends. The rumble strips won't stop that just make it potentially worse.

[Old Steve]

Am I missing something here? So, there are catseyes on the double yellow lines, but these lines are in the centre of the road. And it's dangerous over there anyway.

If you're going around a left hand corner you'll be apexing on the left hand side of the road, well away from the catseyes and you'll be leaned away from them. Maybe rumble strips on the inside of the road would give you some concern, but surely you won't be riding over there.

If you're going around a right hand corner you will be apexing close to the yellow lines and catseyes, but you'll be leaning over towards the yellow lines/catseyes and if you lose traction you'll lowside and slide to the outside of the curve away from oncoming traffic.

I guess we'll just have to accept that the Dark Side has ruined the 'Takas, and live with it.

You could ride to the conditions - both weather and road. Once over the 'Takas there's other roads to enjoy. Or do your fang over the Paekakariki Hill from the Hutt Valley to the west coast instead. You'll miss out on the pleasures of the Wairarapa, but after a little troll up the crowded west coast highway there's the turn off to Shannon and on up passed Tokomaru, Linton, Massey, right to Aokautere and over the Pahiatua track.

[R650R]

Kinda with you on this Old Steve....

Seriously folks, so these cats eyes are going to be the death of you after a 'minor' crossing of the centre line. I'd have thought the car/truck coming the other way (murphys law theres always something coming when you screw up) would be the major worry.
I think these will actually save lives as it sounds like most of you are going to back of a bit being so scared of the potential loss of control. And lets face it, most of us treat the twistys like a racetrack so by effecting a change in behaviour they have achieved a road safety win.
Just wait till they turn it to a 70k speed limit....
Really need to see a pic of these cats eyes....

[James Deuce]

They're not Catseyes, it's a centreline rumblestrip and they're significantly more numerous and taller than catseyes. The issue is not running wide because: fuckwit. The hill is regularly peppered with debris and errant drivers who are shit scared of that road. I've had to avoid cars on my side of the road by rapidly changing direction and using the wrong side of the road to avoid them because that is the only exit available. In the middle of that manoeuvre there are now painted bumps. Losing traction in the middle of avoiding a rockfall, 3 metre strips of bark, luggage, tyre debris or people who shouldn't be allowed to drive is now potentially a crash instead of a managed hazard.

The hill road is now so lacking in fun factor that I'd love to avoid it but I don't fancy turning a 1 hour trip into a 4 hour one for the privilege of using another road that is prone to slips and idiots as well. Just in case you thought about posting "ride to the conditions". Being prepared to avoid idiots and crap is part of that.

[F5 Dave]

Saying ride to the conditions and don't ride over them is all very well but won't stop accidents. I've seen quite a lot of accidents there over the years. But I can't remember actually seeing any car ones.

[James Deuce]

I've seen car and truck accidents, including cars through barriers and down huge drops and trucks facing backwards with trailers on their side.

[caspernz]

Saying ride to the conditions and don't ride over them is all very well but won't stop accidents. I've seen quite a lot of accidents there over the years. But I can't remember actually seeing any car ones.

In the 10 years that I traversed the hill regularly, the vast majority of prangs involved just cars and trucks. In that context, bike accidents by number were small, but often bad by nature of the road being quite unforgiving.

By my reckoning James has summed up the conditions rather well. Fallen rocks and small slips would be an almost daily event. At the other end of the scale, there was once a house mover stuck on the hill because he bought a tape measure from the $2 shop...

[jonnyk5614]

Am I missing something here? So, there are catseyes on the double yellow lines, but these lines are in the centre of the road. And it's dangerous over there anyway.

If you're going around a left hand corner you'll be apexing on the left hand side of the road, well away from the catseyes and you'll be leaned away from them. Maybe rumble strips on the inside of the road would give you some concern, but surely you won't be riding over there.

If you're going around a right hand corner you will be apexing close to the yellow lines and catseyes, but you'll be leaning over towards the yellow lines/catseyes and if you lose traction you'll lowside and slide to the outside of the curve away from oncoming traffic.

I guess we'll just have to accept that the Dark Side has ruined the 'Takas, and live with it.

You could ride to the conditions - both weather and road. Once over the 'Takas there's other roads to enjoy. Or do your fang over the Paekakariki Hill from the Hutt Valley to the west coast instead. You'll miss out on the pleasures of the Wairarapa, but after a little troll up the crowded west coast highway there's the turn off to Shannon and on up passed Tokomaru, Linton, Massey, right to Aokautere and over the Pahiatua track.


You what? You'll be right next to the yellow line for the majority of a left hand corner and right next to the white line for most of a right hander. You're only going to release this line once you have a clear view out.

This is a road, not a racetrack....

[mossy1200]

You what? You'll be right next to the yellow line for the majority of a left hand corner and right next to the white line for most of a right hander. You're only going to release this line once you have a clear view out.

This is a road, not a racetrack....



Never seen a Taka rock slip?
Wont catch the ones going slow enough but a fair few don't and need run wide out near the yellows on a lefty when a small slips on the road. The unprepared will touch the odd centre line. The fact that that was already dangerous is true but made worse if you need commit full lean to avoid danger and run the bumpy yellow things.
I rode on them just to see how raised they were on a straight section and they are quite tall and close together.

Guess its a calculation of how many prevented accidents verses how many caused because a fair few tin tops cut the corners or stray off line. Maybe they got added to stop bikes passing as they still do it on the yellows.

Problem is also a fair few cars pull left and wave bikes past which is cool but it puts the bikes on or near that yellow.