Motorcycle awareness

[AelfMorts]

Being a new rider and recently been made more aware of just how invisible a motorcycle can be; I'm interested in putting together some information and stories from those who have a little more insight to share. So if you have a moment take the time to rack your brains and think of all those things that drive you nuts, make you nervous or bug you every so often when you're out on your bike.
I have come up with a survey to this effect and am highly grateful for any responses provided. My hope is to use this data in the future. Feel free to pass the survey on to people you know or even post some ideas or thoughts on how to improve motorcyclist visibility.

http://goo.gl/forms/J7MBlJrveJ

[Akzle]

50+ ??!! Thats a bit broad

btw. Tits or gtfo.

[TheDemonLord]

Done, Enjoy

[OddDuck]

I was a cyclist for a long time before I was a biker. Long and short of it: deliberate attacks are rare, but stupidity / cutting corners to save 0.2 seconds / just plain not seeing you is stuff you can expect. I learnt to ride so that I wouldn't get taken out by someone being lazy, blind, or stupid. It's served me well.

Basic tips for staying alive:

1) take your time
2) never tailgate
3) keep clear space around you
4) don't do things that car drivers / truckies don't expect
5) don't race in traffic
6) never overtake at more speed than you can scrub off
7) don't punch it through intersections
8) ride within your sightlines
9) expect things to be behind that truck or around that corner

Hi-vis is something I've never worn. I've done head to toe black leather, or synthethics, or jacket + jeans for years and never had a problem.

Shitloads of a biker's risk is themselves. The temptation to cut loose and start tearing things up can be pretty strong sometimes... Car / truck drivers live in a slower paced world. Their lane checks / reactions etc are geared to that world. When they pull out of a driveway in a 50 zone, they certainly don't expect to have to deal with a bike shooting around a corner at 80-plus.

You're worried about the risks and are seeking information, I reckon that's a great place to start.

[James Deuce]

50+ ??!! Thats a bit broad

btw. Tits or gtfo.

Also, 10+ years riding? How old are you, OP?

I'm just starting to get the hang of it at 30 years.

[Banditbandit]

Also, 10+ years riding? How old are you, OP?

I'm just starting to get the hang of it at 30 years.

I'm 40+ riding ...

[R650R]

There's no visibility issue with motorbikes at all. This is evident by the thousands of tickets issued to them by cops, they have no trouble seeing them at all.
The same people that 'don't see' me on motorbike are the same people that 'don't see' me in my car or truck. They all have one thing in common, they never looked in the first place or made half hearted distracted attempt.
There you go there's your survey result, lots of dumb people on road in all vehicle types who never look properly or pay attention, nothing more complicated or scientific needed....

[Old Steve]

One thing I've learned from several experiences where car drivers just didn't look and didn't see me, is to keep an eye on their steering wheel or on their front wheels. Car drivers just don't see motorbikes so often.

If they're coming out of a side street or driveway (as in one case where I had to brake to a stop less than 1 metre from the driver's door and still she didn't see me and drove off through her right hand turn and off down the road I was coming from) looking at their front wheel tells you if they are stopped or if they're still rolling.

I was riding towards Bethlehem from the south on Moffat Road in Tauranga, ahead of a line of 3 - 4 cars - when I saw the nose of a beige Mazda 3-ish car poke out of the driveway of the child care centre on the left hand side of the road. There are cars parked all along that strip of road, so I thought the driver might come out a little way to get a better look down the road where I was coming. I kept to the right hand side of the lane, eased off the throttle, covered the front and rear brakes, and kept an eye on her front wheel. Sure enough it kept turning, and kept turning, so I started braking. I came to a halt abreast of her driver's door, about 750 mm from impact, and she just drove off onto the other side of the road and away, not only didn't she see me but she didn't see the cars following me either. I had to stop for a pedestrian crossing about 50 to 100 metres down the road and the driver of the next vehicle behind me pulled up inside me, wound down his window and said, "She just didn't see you, did she." I told him we motorbikers had this ability to read minds, it developed because of the way car drivers didn't look. We had a laugh and went our separate ways.

But I have learned that car drivers don't look, don't see motorbikes, and the price for my safety is eternal vigilance. Hell, bikers even have an acronym for what a car driver says when they've knocked you off your bike - SMIDSY, Sorry Mate I Didn't See You.

[Hawkeye]

There's no visibility issue with motorbikes at all. This is evident by the thousands of tickets issued to them by cops, they have no trouble seeing them at all.
The same people that 'don't see' me on motorbike are the same people that 'don't see' me in my car or truck. They all have one thing in common, they never looked in the first place or made half hearted distracted attempt.
There you go there's your survey result, lots of dumb people on road in all vehicle types who never look properly or pay attention, nothing more complicated or scientific needed....

Totally agree with the half hearted look. They also do not take into consideration speed differences in heavy traffic. A gap in the lane next to them and they presume the other lane is travelling the same speed so can just move. Oh! did I mention the indicator after they have already started the move over the line (if your lucky to get one). That and their inability to actually turn their head. Random look in the miiror (which is set up to see what is behind them), and never check what's at the side of them.

[AelfMorts]

Clearly not old enough :) but that just means I've got a lot of time ahead of me to work things out and I'm starting now.

What I've learnt so far is this:
Motorcyclist must realise that there are stupid people on the roads, including themselves, so be prepared.

What I want to learn is whether or not there are ways to help people wise up. Or alternatively what are areas that can be targeted to reduce risk. Beyond that is this something that will be valued and supported.


My motivation came from when I got told SMIDSY (I'd never heard this term before, cheers) after a guy turned right across traffic into a side street without checking the bus lane. I learnt that it's not just the guy who looked like he was going to merge into you that you've got to worry about but also the guy who might be hiding behind him. While I was lucky accidents like this aren't new or unusual.

Something else he said before the cops corrected him was that I shouldn't have been riding in the bus lane in Auckland. I think a simple solution to at least remind people that we are allowed to be there (and are there) is to include motorcyclist on those bus lane signs in the city. Before I go crusading about just my experience however I wanted to properly understand what the potential dangers were.

[pritch]

SMIDSY is not the whole problem. Drivers respond best to threats. It's unlikely that you will appear to be a threat so they are likely to carry on as if you are not there. They will look right at you and then just pull out in front of you. So the normal advice to make sure you have eye contact is not a 100% guarantee.

This is not so common on a big bike but it happened virtually every week when I was using a moped. I used to think a 45 pistol in a parcel tray mounted holster might be an effective attitude adjuster. Alas! The Triumph hasn't got a parcel tray. :whistle:

[AllanB]

Meh .......

[ellipsis]

...get your full licence, sit your arse on the bike of your dreams and ride...FTW...or stay and post here and be a real informed, top of the heap, biker...

[GrayWolf]

New member, a supposed 'new rider', and wants an 'online survey' filledin??
Why am I smelling a rodent???? :o

[caspernz]

New member, a supposed 'new rider', and wants an 'online survey' filledin??
Why am I smelling a rodent???? :o

The IP address probably comes back to an ACC funded research project...:cool::eek:

[haydes55]

Yes, I'm aware motorbikes exist.

Sent from my HTC Desire 310 using Tapatalk

[caspernz]

Yes, I'm aware motorbikes exist.

Sent from my HTC Desire 310 using Tapatalk

I'm waiting for someone to ask the OP for a selfie with bike...:wacko:

[russd7]

What I want to learn is whether or not there are ways to help people wise up..
ahhhh the naivety, rather refreshing really, obviously haven't been round long enough to become cynical.
could spend hours messing round trying to re-educate the muppets or you could spend those hours more harmoniously riding your bike, your choice.

[Gremlin]

Have a read through Survival Skills, plenty of good info. If you look at any videos, judge for yourself what a rider could have done to improve their odds.

When riding, travel at an appropriate speed for the conditions, remember your following distances (it gives you time to react) and essentially, don't ride like a knob. When riding along multi-lane roads, especially when you're in the 1 lane that's clear of traffic and the others are bumper to bumper, check gaps especially around side roads. Have the cars left a space for a turning car to get through?

Don't expect cars to see you. If they pull out in front of trains and trucks, what chance do you have? As you're riding along, ask yourself: What can you see? What can't you see? What can you reasonably expect to happen?

300k+ in 10 years, I wouldn't give it up. Enjoy the learning process :ride:

[mossy1200]

I must admit the motorcycle crash section on you tube keeps me entertained for hours. Its like a how NOT to ride bikes.
Im thinking a new stat should be the relationship between the type of rider that films himself doing dumb shit and crash ratio compared to other riders. If you surveyed you tube crashes it would look like 95% of crashes are rider stupidity error. Passing in built up areas seems to be a popular choice.

[pritch]

The IP address probably comes back to an ACC funded research project...

Or Ashley Madison? :whistle:

[Pontiac_Tonz]

Clearly not old enough :)Something else he said before the cops corrected him was that I shouldn't have been riding in the bus lane in Auckland. I think a simple solution to at least remind people that we are allowed to be there (and are there) is to include motorcyclist on those bus lane signs in the city..........

Bus lanes are an interesting one.

I feel drivers expect to see just busses and fail to see the motorbikes.

Example.

I work in Ellerslie and travel up Gt South Rd to head towards the Greenlane on ramp.

There is a bus lane running up to Greenlane road, the traffic is just about always at a stand-still, so handy to cruise to the front of the queue and cut across to the right turn lane.

Anyway, I was behind a scooter at the preceding set of lights heading towards the bus lane, as the scooter was at the lights before me I just sat behind him as we hit the bus lane.

There are several roads on the left where cars come from and head in to, I tend to slow down at these intersections as it can be hard to see anything coming from the right.

Scooter guy didn't, nearly cost him.

Car turning into the side road from the right, missed the back of scooter guys bike by millimeters.

Worst part was I don’t think scooter guy saw the car either!?!?!?!?

Lesson: Cars expect busses not bikes, scooter guy needed to be more aware.


And yes, not all bus signs show motorcyclists. Not to mention transit lanes. Some do - most don't.

Of course we can't use "Bus Only" lanes.

[Berries]

Bus lanes are an interesting one.

I feel drivers expect to see just busses and fail to see the motorbikes.
Yes, there's a clue in the name whatever the legalities of it.

[Oakie]

Yes, there's a clue in the name whatever the legalities of it.

We're allowed to use them in Christchurch. City Council says so.

[Berries]

What I meant was that it doesn't matter if it is legal to use them or not, they are called bus lanes therefore Joe Average driver is only going to expect buses in them. Assuming anything else is what gets people hurt.

[Swoop]

Of course we can't use "Bus Only" lanes.

Yes we can around Auckland. Do some reading.

[Old Steve]

Yes we can around Auckland. Do some reading.

No you can't, you can't use a BUS ONLY LANE, I think you can use a BUS LANE (motorbikes and bicycles) and definitely use a T2 or T3 lanes (buses, Motorbikes, Bicycles and vehicles with 2 or 3 occupants).

For instance you can't turn left (ie. going south) off Esmonde Rd coming from Takapuna onto the BUS ONLY LANE which enters the motorway just before the normal vehicle entry lane.

[liljegren]

sometimes I drive my missus's Suzuki SX4. It's got those new style double pillars between the windscreen and the driver's window, as have many vehicles now. They may form a stronger vehicle for the occupants, but man they are a big old blind spot!!! I get really nervous when riding around cars with big double pillars, because those drivers will likely not see you.
I know this because i nearly ran over a kid the other day, I swear I looked, but I didnt see him!!

[TheDemonLord]

sometimes I drive my missus's Suzuki SX4. It's got those new style double pillars between the windscreen and the driver's window, as have many vehicles now. They may form a stronger vehicle for the occupants, but man they are a big old blind spot!!! I get really nervous when riding around cars with big double pillars, because those drivers will likely not see you.
I know this because i nearly ran over a kid the other day, I swear I looked, but I didnt see him!!

I hear ya - those A pillars are a mahoooosive blind spot - it really requires driver discipline to move your head to clear the blind spot.

[haydes55]

I hear ya - those A pillars are a mahoooosive blind spot - it really requires driver discipline to move your head to clear the blind spot.
Work just bought me a new work van a couple months back. The A pillars can hide a hatchback at an intersection. The old van was much better. Apparently this is safer if I roll over. Safer for 2% of crashes but more likely to cause a crash... Stupid

[Swoop]

No you can't, you can't use a BUS ONLY LANE, I think you can use a BUS LANE (motorbikes and bicycles) and definitely use a T2 or T3 lanes (buses, Motorbikes, Bicycles and vehicles with 2 or 3 occupants).

For instance you can't turn left (ie. going south) off Esmonde Rd coming from Takapuna onto the BUS ONLY LANE which enters the motorway just before the normal vehicle entry lane.

All of the bus lanes around Auckland are for bike use as well - these are mainly painted green. The motorway lanes are a grey area since they do not "specifically exclude" motorcycle use, as required by the law.

[Hawkeye]

Yes we can around Auckland. Do some reading.

And all of these comments just go to show that it is not clear cut, black and white.

The most obviously failing in the whole system is there are a different set of road codes for different vehicles FFS.

'You don't ride a bike so I don't need to know the rules for bikes' mentality of the system.

If you drive/ride, you should know the rules for ALL road users not just for the vehicle you going to use. Until cager's understand our rules as well as theirs, there will always be this debate.

Unless of course that has now been changed. Been a while since I took my test :confused:

[Akzle]

If you drive/ride, you should know the rules for ALL road users not just for the vehicle you going to use. Until cager's understand our rules as well as theirs, there will always be this debate.

Unless of course that has now been changed. Been a while since I took my test :confused:

right. so, you're au fait with the rules for 50max trucks? tracks and rollers? HT? oversize? forkhoists? horses? because if you weren't, that would be fucking hypocritical.



((i'm fully in agreeance, but i take it two steps further))

[Pontiac_Tonz]

Yes we can around Auckland. Do some reading.

Yeesh...

From the road code:

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-signs/main-types/

(Picture of bus) then the word "ONLY"
DESCRIPTION: Bus lane that can only
be used by buses

(Picture of bus) then the word "LANE"
DESCRIPTION: Bus lane that can also
be used by cycles,
motorcycles, mopeds

[TheDemonLord]

right. so, you're au fait with the rules for 50max trucks? tracks and rollers? HT? oversize? forkhoists? horses?

Yep - they all have to Give way to Demon Lords.

[Swoop]

From the road code:

This topic has been done to death on here. However, once again...
The road code is an interpretation of the law. The law states that "Unles Specifically Excluded", so a sign can say "Kangaroos only" on it and still mean nothing.
Have you seen those little signs at the entrance to the motorway which have a pedestrian with a red circle and bar crossing over? That is a "specific exclusion" sign.

[caspernz]

right. so, you're au fait with the rules for 50max trucks? tracks and rollers? HT? oversize? forkhoists? horses? because if you weren't, that would be fucking hypocritical.



((i'm fully in agreeance, but i take it two steps further))


Yep - they all have to Give way to Demon Lords.

C'mon now, there's the Road Code and the Code of the Road. Most of us truckers just default to Might is Right when in doubt as to the exactitude of the wording of anything in the Road Code thingamajig...:bleh:

[Tazz]

The bus lane use in Auckland is very clear cut khants. That carry on comes under council bylaws I believe, not general national road laws (for lack of the correct terms).

https://at.govt.nz/driving-parking/bus-transit-priority-lanes/

Bikes = OK except for the one part mentioned in that link, which I'm guessing is pictured on the page as being the bus lanes physically separated from the normal transit lanes.


And all of these comments just go to show that it is not clear cut, black and white.



Yeesh...

From the road code:

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-signs/main-types/

(Picture of bus) then the word "ONLY"
DESCRIPTION: Bus lane that can only
be used by buses

(Picture of bus) then the word "LANE"
DESCRIPTION: Bus lane that can also
be used by cycles,
motorcycles, mopeds


This topic has been done to death on here. However, once again...



For instance you can't turn left (ie. going south) off Esmonde Rd coming from Takapuna onto the BUS ONLY LANE which enters the motorway just before the normal vehicle entry lane.

[FJRider]

If you drive/ride, you should know the rules for ALL road users not just for the vehicle you going to use. Until cager's understand our rules as well as theirs, there will always be this debate.



Knowing their RULES is unimportant ....


Knowing/understanding their capabilities (or lack thereof) ... is another thing entirely ...