Compulsory Stop Signs [Archive]

eldog

1st September 2015, 18:46

yes, habit from having a stop sign intersection that has one of those optical illusions, where the oncoming vehicles look further away. Another one has cars with random indicators.
From experience I always stop. boring but it has saved me several times.

I have also been 'overtaken' on a stop sign by a person who couldnt see any oncoming cars cut me off, so now i own the intersection. so much better.

Maha come and live in Papakura/Manurewa and thes rest of south akl and you will see why i stop at stop signs

sometimes i would love to be a traffic cop, yeah nah

On the way to work this morning I realised that my above answer wasn't what Maha was referring to.

I was thinking about complete stop one foot on ground stop.

Thinking about his question he was referring to a rolling stop, coming to a complete stop, balancing, no foot on ground, having surveyed the surroundings then proceeding.
I do this at give ways, but have been warned that foot on ground is the only way of avoiding the blue disco lights.

Although trained at 2 places to place left foot on ground, I place right foot. reason some roads in akl have so much camber that I cant reach the ground with the bike balanced.
Right foot on ground means I can engage clutch/gear if I think appropriate (at the lights) Sorry haven't done too many hill starts, but I can put left down too for that and use right for rear brake if required.

I think this ROLLING stop is what he refers to. I think its ok myself but the overkill legal brigade will disagree, I put my foot down so people behind me don't think I will take off and they run into me - just avoided this a few times.

haydes55

1st September 2015, 18:53

I only stop to give way.

george formby

1st September 2015, 19:09

Yup. I stop. It's a simple concept and my nearest one is often policed, ironically, by officers who roll through it. I'm so anal I even have a technique to stop me from doing a rolly. I look at the yellow line to mark my stopping spot, check my mirrors for the umpteenth time, stop, foot down, check the junction and roll. This junction is on a highway and traffic regularly miss the 50k sign about 100m from the junction and blow through at warp speed.
I look upon it as a cost saving exercise. A mates daughter recently got fined $300 for rolling a stop sign. I'm also trying to set a good example for my better half. Which is a bit pointless, she just got her 6f and I have to contravene other laws, at times, briefly, on private roads, to keep her in sight.:clap:

Ender EnZed

1st September 2015, 22:37

Not when it's solely for the sake of following the rules. I do stop for plenty of low visibility Give Way signs though.

AllanB

1st September 2015, 22:39

yep .

Motu

1st September 2015, 23:02

There is one I sometimes very nearly stop for - it has always been a giveway and has good visability, but last year the paddock to the right was a maize field and there was zero visability so you had to stop...then they made it a stop sign, good call. But now it's in grass and you can see a good km up the road. I'm pretty sure I stop for most stop signs, but it's a call I make at the time.

Berries

1st September 2015, 23:16

Is a compulsory stop sign different to a normal stop sign then?

Too many stop signs have been put in for reasons that are not based on visibility - knee jerk responses to a high profile crash, to placate some moaning resident or just because some people are so shit they cannot work out what to do if they are on a give way and the car opposite is on a stop. I know, make them both stop to make it easier and cater for the retards.

A stop sign should only be used if the visibility is below a certain amount. You generally find that the ones where the visibility is not bad are the ones that get poor compliance and thus the ones that get enforced. A vicious circle. And bikes are handicapped further because at some intersections the visibility may only be a problem if you are in a car, in a truck or on a bike you can see over the obstacle. This is the case where I got my ticket for failing to stop at a stop sign. You can't argue, a stop sign means stop, but the fact many of them are bullshit means people treat them as such.

I have said it before on here, the offence should be failing to give way at an intersection - that actually causes crashes. Failing to come to a complete stop has never caused a crash and it never will, it is the failure to give way that does that.

So yes. Or no. Sometimes, if nobody is watching.

Tazz

2nd September 2015, 01:05

WNJ

2nd September 2015, 04:32

Yes Always, and since being knocked off my TLS by a drunk speeding cager at a give way I stop at these now also,

caspernz

2nd September 2015, 06:08

Yes, always. Just a habit from driving for a living.

Sometimes it's hard to work out the logic that's used to apply the STOP or the GIVE WAY sign in particular locations :weird:

In essence, why give a Roadside Revenue Representative an easy catch if he/she is lurking in the bushes nearby?

Ulsterkiwi

2nd September 2015, 09:08

yep I always stop. "ride like everyone is trying to kill you" is a mantra I try to remember, it has saved me a few times I am aware of and probably more I am not aware of. When I stop, one eye is on my mirrors watching for the muppet coming up behind who has decided the rules don't apply to them and I am ready to move away.
There is a chap in Wellington who has been tossed from his bike twice is short succession after being rear ended at stop signs. Cagers on both occasions.
Before anyone rants about cagers, read the comments above, some providing reasons and explanations why they don't stop at stop signs, pretty sure the people who rear ended (and hurt!) the guy in Wgtn could have come up with similar types of reasons and explanations why they don't or should not be expected to stop at stop signs.

Banditbandit

2nd September 2015, 09:11

Yeah I try and make a habit of putting a foot down to make sure I do stop and it's solely for the purpose of not getting a ticket, it doesn't make me look any more cautiously than I would rolling slowly or otherwise.

As above I think some stop signs aren't needed where they are, but then some Give Ways should be Stop signs too (usually some of those odd angled country intersections).

They Police one here on Waikawa road often which I have seem them roll through a fair few times too. Always tempting with those left hand turns, even for the fuzz.

Same ... I stop to avoid a ticket ...

The only way to get caught not stopping is not to look properly. If you roll a stop sign and a cop sees it and gives you a ticket then you have not seen the cop ... if you did not see the cop, what other traffic might you have missed? Those are the ones that will take you out. SMIDSY is not an excuse for a car driver - and neither is it an excuse for any of us ...

Autech

2nd September 2015, 09:41

Not in Montreal. They don't have give way signs in Quebec so every intersection is a 4 way stop sign. Was feking awful on a massive Diavel with a heavy clutch to stop every time, so I just sorta rolled through slowly.

Tazz

2nd September 2015, 10:56

Same ... I stop to avoid a ticket ...

The only way to get caught not stopping is not to look properly. If you roll a stop sign and a cop sees it and gives you a ticket then you have not seen the cop ... if you did not see the cop, what other traffic might you have missed? Those are the ones that will take you out. SMIDSY is not an excuse for a car driver - and neither is it an excuse for any of us ...

Unless they're parked in front of a light truck and are watching you in their wing mirror :Police:
Have seen that from time to time (fair few years ago now mind) but mainly an intersection in Chch (Parkhouse Rd-ish onto Main South by the over bridge area). Sneaky sneaky.

rastuscat

2nd September 2015, 11:10

A mates daughter recently got fined $300 for rolling a stop sign. :

The fine is $150, plus 20 demerits.

What did she do to deserve $300? Or maybe the truth is being stretched to make her appear as a victim.

Maha

2nd September 2015, 12:08

The fine is $150, plus 20 demerits.

What did she do to deserve $300? Or maybe the truth is being stretched to make her appear as a victim.

I was spotted rolling through a stop sign years ago, was fined $1000 and lost my licence for 6 months, bit harsh. :innocent:

Berries

2nd September 2015, 18:24

Before anyone rants about cagers, read the comments above, some providing reasons and explanations why they don't stop at stop signs, pretty sure the people who rear ended (and hurt!) the guy in Wgtn could have come up with similar types of reasons and explanations why they don't or should not be expected to stop at stop signs.
No, they are twats. They have assumed what the vehicle in front was going to do. I listed valid reasons why a stop sign might not be warranted at an intersection, and reasons why I might not bother complying if I can see the way is clear. But I would be a complete arse to expect the vehicle in front to do the same.

oneofsix

2nd September 2015, 18:33

No, they are twats. They have assumed what the vehicle in front was going to do. I listed valid reasons why a stop sign might not be warranted at an intersection, and reasons why I might not bother complying if I can see the way is clear. But I would be a complete arse to expect the vehicle in front to do the same.

Are you sure "They have assumed what the vehicle in front was going to do", having viewed video of that stop and spoken to someoen who watched the drivers the chances are they never saw "the vehicle in front", they were too busy checking the cross road to see if they could do a "rolling stop", just like they had a thousand times before. BTW; what if the cage driver was a biker who developed the habit due to the above attitudes?

FJRider

2nd September 2015, 18:42

The fine is $150, plus 20 demerits.

What did she do to deserve $300? Or maybe the truth is being stretched to make her appear as a victim.

No WOF/Rego ... driving outside license conditions ... Vehicle not up to WOF standard ... ????

Any of the above ... or "Other" infringement ... it matters little really. She'll probably stop at stop signs now ...

What is a "Rolling Stop" ... either you're rolling ... or you're stopped.

FJRider

2nd September 2015, 18:45

I was spotted rolling through a stop sign years ago, was fined $1000 and lost my licence for 6 months, bit harsh. :innocent:

Look on the bright side ... you didn't hit a biker ...

You didn't ... did you .. ??

Maha

2nd September 2015, 18:54

Look on the bright side ... you didn't hit a biker ...

You didn't ... did you .. ??

No no noooooooo but the red and blues looked pretty at 1am :shifty:

FJRider

2nd September 2015, 19:09

Too many stop signs have been put in for reasons that are not based on visibility - knee jerk responses to a high profile crash, to placate some moaning resident or just because some people are so shit they cannot work out what to do if they are on a give way and the car opposite is on a stop. I know, make them both stop to make it easier and cater for the retards.

A stop sign should only be used if the visibility is below a certain amount. You generally find that the ones where the visibility is not bad are the ones that get poor compliance and thus the ones that get enforced. A vicious circle.

We have a few stop signs (and giveway signs) ... with 500 metre visability in either direction. A more than ONE (accident) has resulted in deaths. Some accidents resulting in multiple deaths.

Cause of death(s) is stupidity .. not lack of visability. :beer:

And bikes are handicapped further because at some intersections the visibility may only be a problem if you are in a car, in a truck or on a bike you can see over the obstacle. This is the case where I got my ticket for failing to stop at a stop sign. You can't argue, a stop sign means stop, but the fact many of them are bullshit means people treat them as such.

Those bullshit laws may save a life ... YOUR'S .. !!! :pinch:

I have said it before on here, the offence should be failing to give way at an intersection - that actually causes crashes. Failing to come to a complete stop has never caused a crash and it never will, it is the failure to give way that does that.

What's the difference in fines for failing to stop ... as opposed to failing to give way .. ?? ;)

And if it's only a "Near Miss" ... does that make it OK .. ??? :scratch:

So yes. Or no. Sometimes, if nobody is watching.

You mean ... nobody you can see ... that you think matters ... ;)

Remember .. *555 is still alive and well, even thriving ... :laugh:

Berries

2nd September 2015, 21:11

Those bullshit laws may save a life ... YOUR'S .. !!!
You completely miss my point. If the stop sign does not meet the criteria required for a stop sign then compliance will be low because people can see far enough to assess whether someone is coming or not. It is this which then leads to non-compliance at stop signs where you might not be aware that visibility is compromised. A case of crying wolf.

What's the difference in fines for failing to stop ... as opposed to failing to give way .. ?? ;)
Don't know, don't care. I know that one of them is very easy to give tickets for while the other one results in crashes.

FJRider

2nd September 2015, 21:21

You completely miss my point. If the stop sign does not meet the criteria required for a stop sign then compliance will be low because people can see far enough to assess whether someone is coming or not. It is this which then leads to non-compliance at stop signs where you might not be aware that visibility is compromised. A case of crying wolf.

Don't know, don't care. I know that one of them is very easy to give tickets for while the other one results in crashes.

The point is ... the criteria required for Stop signs is ... you are required by ledglislation to come to a complete stop.

Non complience can lead to death.

YOU may be killed by someone who did NOT stop at a stop sign. AND ... there will be nothing you can do to stop that.

rastuscat

2nd September 2015, 22:42

I didn't stop at a stop sign once. I got fined a million dollars and 4 hundred gazillion demerits.

There. It's on KB. It must be true.

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Swoop

2nd September 2015, 22:43

Yes. I stop for stop SIGNS.

I always have a time credit owing, since I never stop for those motorway onramp stop light/traffic light bullshit thingys.

Berries

2nd September 2015, 23:42

The point is ... the criteria required for Stop signs is ... you are required by ledglislation to come to a complete stop.

Non complience can lead to death.

YOU may be killed by someone who did NOT stop at a stop sign. AND ... there will be nothing you can do to stop that.
:brick:

I am just as likely to be hit by someone who stopped at a stop sign as someone who rolled through it, or someone who has stopped at a give way sign. It is the failing to give way bit that will kill you and that is totally unrelated to whether or not the wheels came to a complete stop.

caspernz

3rd September 2015, 05:06

The STOP sign question can be replaced with any number of simple everyday traffic rules.

How many folks don't know how to indicate at a roundabout for example? The number of dipshits who indicate right going onto the roundabout then left as they leave it, while going straight in effect...:facepalm::facepalm:

Road works is another, do you slow down to the posted limit? Funnily enough, in the truck I will sometimes get a hurry up over the CB from a ten gallon hat wearer, and then slow down another 5 or 10 :innocent:

What about approaching a township from the open road? Do you slow down to the posted limit at the sign or before the sign? Here's a kicker for you, in our trucks we're recorded non-stop by GPS. Enter that 50 zone at 51 and it records a speeding event. Oh well, it grinds me but in the end I get paid by the hour :shit:

So when I'm out on the bike I enjoy the freedom a bit more :wings::innocent:

Maha

3rd September 2015, 08:10

I didn't stop at a stop sign once. I got fined a million dollars and 4 hundred gazillion demerits.

That's ridiculous, even by your standards.

rastuscat

3rd September 2015, 08:12

That's ridiculous, even by your standards.
Nah. Since I left the job I'm living in Fantasy Land.

It's far easier to understand Skoober Azkill et al now that I speak proper Fantasy - speak.

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george formby

3rd September 2015, 09:11

The fine is $150, plus 20 demerits.

What did she do to deserve $300? Or maybe the truth is being stretched to make her appear as a victim.

No doubt other factors involved. Certainly no plea of being victimised.

FJRider

3rd September 2015, 15:54

It is the failing to give way bit that will kill you and that is totally unrelated to whether or not the wheels came to a complete stop.

Failing to give way is the standard charge if you hit somebody at either stop or give way controlled intersections ... Failing to stop is a bonus charge if you didn't actually stop at the stop sign.

We all know the rules ... be it on our own heads if we get caught ... or we hit somebody.

eldog

3rd September 2015, 17:17

I was spotted rolling through a stop sign years ago, was fined $1000 and lost my licence for 6 months, bit harsh. :innocent:

No no noooooooo but the red and blues looked pretty at 1am :shifty:

Far Canal. Now I is gunna stop

Yep no less than 5 sets of blue disco lights waiting for me last night, awesome. So glad they weren't for me. Certainly lit up the road.

eldog

3rd September 2015, 17:19

I didn't stop at a stop sign once. I got fined a million dollars and 4 hundred gazillion demerits.

that's what happens when you write yourself a ticket, its all zeros :innocent:

Maha

3rd September 2015, 17:47

Far Canal. Now I is gunna stop

Yep no less than 5 sets of blue disco lights waiting for me last night, awesome. So glad they weren't for me. Certainly lit up the road.

My offence was not the stop sign fail, but it alerted said night prowler. :msn-wink:

FJRider

3rd September 2015, 18:09

My offence was not the stop sign fail, but it alerted said night prowler. :msn-wink:

As a bust tail light would ... at 1am on a Sunday morning ... said night prowlers love to chat ... any excuse will do.

rastuscat

3rd September 2015, 21:07

Failing to give way is the standard charge if you hit somebody at either stop or give way controlled intersections ... Failing to stop is a bonus charge if you didn't actually stop at the stop sign..

Interesting comment.

Failing to give way covers a number of different clauses within the Offences and Penalties Regs 1999.

FGW at a stop sign is covered by a different clause then FGW at a stop sign. If you FGW at a stop sign the evidence is normally fairly clear i.e. a big bunch of broken stuff spread all over the road. It's easier to prove than failing to stop, as the evidence is fairly damning. So it's not normal to double dip the charge by laying FGW and also Failing to Stop. Not unheard of, just not normal.

Wow, I've been out of the job for a few weeks now, and I'm still writing this shit. Except now I can call it shit, as nobody can bitch to the IPCA about me any more.

Gremlin

3rd September 2015, 21:51

FGW at a stop sign is covered by a different clause then FGW at a stop sign.
...
Except now I can call it shit, as nobody can bitch to the IPCA about me any more.
Where do I complain about the accuracy of your posts? :laugh:

granstar

3rd September 2015, 21:58

Definitely stop, and look R L R L.

Gave Way at one once due to complacency and my luck got nabbed :Police:

rastuscat

3rd September 2015, 21:59

Where do I complain about the accuracy of your posts? [emoji23]
Complain to Mrs Cat. She has the ultimate authority.

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tamarillo

6th November 2016, 07:49

Bringing this post back to life.
Of course you STOP for a stop sign, jeez.
But, as I am sure many experienced riders here know but some might not, you don't have to stop on the painted line, but in a position to see clearly. So if one bike stops I can pull up along side just a foot it two back, not interrupt their view, yet see at same time, and leave immediately after. If it's wide open clear view the next two bikes could too, though extend that idea too far and it won't wash.
If 1st bike is turning right and is in correct right hand of lane position I can go to left of them, holding back enough for them to see, and see same and go.
I'm only mentioning this as we can get very separated at stop signs and this gets us through quicker, legally and safely.

Until some wally decides 10 bikes can therefore go at once. Any here?

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mossy1200

6th November 2016, 11:36

you don't have to stop on the painted line, but in a position to see clearly.

Got a ticket near Speights Brewery, Dunedin 20 odd years ago. Stopped about a car length back from the yellows. Could not see where they were in the rain as they were faded and under water with street lights shining on them. Left intersection and got $75 ticket because popo thought he spotted me roll through. Trying to explain something to someone who has already made their mind up is impossible. Still sore about it. Needing hugs.

trufflebutter

6th November 2016, 12:20

nzspokes

6th November 2016, 12:26

Always stop and look around when you get to the yellow line. How hard is it?

george formby

6th November 2016, 14:58

Always stop and look around when you get to the yellow line. How hard is it?

The hardest part is gauging whether the wally behind is going to keep on rolling and give you / me a nudge. I've developed the habit of rolling up to the junction at a snails pace to try and minimise the little tap of affection. I look at the line and watch my mirrors like a hawk. No leftie, rightie until I'm stopped.

Admittedly, I'm in the wops.

Maha

6th November 2016, 15:58

The hardest part is gauging whether the wally behind is going to keep on rolling and give you / me a nudge. I've developed the habit of rolling up to the junction at a snails pace to try and minimise the little tap of affection. I look at the line and watch my mirrors like a hawk. No leftie, rightie until I'm stopped.

Admittedly, I'm in the wops.

Or the one in front that's turning the same way as you, then decides (after you have assumed he/she made the decision that it's safe to move on) to stop for reason known only to the driver. In the car I do the same as you at Stop Signs, otherwise it's easy to get into the habit of not fully stopping...like I do sometimes on the bike.

Moi

6th November 2016, 16:19

Always stop and look around when you get to the yellow line. How hard is it?

I'd suggest for some... Very Difficult.

Let's really have some fun and have 4-way Stops...

Though as has been said, there seems to be a plethora of Stop signs in parts of Auckland and they are often treated by the great unwashed as if they are a Give Way... with the giving way part being an optional extra... "I'll just go and you can stop for me".

russd7

6th November 2016, 18:14

I often see bikes not stopping at Compulsory Stops ie: foot or feet down. It's normally a quick check left or right then ride on through. To be fair though, some Compulsory Stops can be treated like a Give Way because of the visual scope, I know they shouldn't but they can.

problem here is, it is not always obvious why it is a stop sign, we have one locally that has claimed one motorcyclist and i have seen another two occasions where bikes have taken serious evasive action from people only giving way (barely) and not stopping to look

Maha

6th November 2016, 19:02

problem here is, it is not always obvious why it is a stop sign, we have one locally that has claimed one motorcyclist and i have seen another two occasions where bikes have taken serious evasive action from people only giving way (barely) and not stopping to look

When we lived up north there was a Stop Sign that about only 1-10 stopped at, some would go through it anywhere between 20-40 kph. Our street had the right of way but those that lived on the street would slow down when approaching that particular intersection. The closest I got to hitting anyone was when female driver finally managed to stop with 2/3 of her vehicle in my lane, causing me to go around her, I got the normal 'two hands in the air sorry look'.

Owl

7th November 2016, 05:56

Left intersection and got $75 ticket because popo thought he spotted me roll through. Trying to explain something to someone who has already made their mind up is impossible. Still sore about it. Needing hugs.

:hug:

Very similar story and only infringement I've ever argued in writing. I lost, paid and decided to move on with life.

I still like to look at the bigger picture and know I've been let off a few infringements in my time. Most recent being a few weeks ago, so I'm well on the winning side.;)

Swoop

8th November 2016, 18:57

I often see bikes not stopping at Compulsory Stops ie: foot or feet down.
You can come to a complete stop without having to put your feet down. The wheels are fully stopped moving and you balance.
I think it was MDU who would get close to 30 seconds stopped while just balancing.

Gremlin

8th November 2016, 21:21

You can come to a complete stop without having to put your feet down. The wheels are fully stopped moving and you balance.
I think it was MDU who would get close to 30 seconds stopped while just balancing.
You can stop without putting your feet down, and legally, you don't have to put your foot down, however, that's what the cops are looking for and judging a stop on (rightly or wrongly) so unless you like making your life difficult, it's easier to stop, put a foot down, and then go again.

george formby

9th November 2016, 17:40

You can come to a complete stop without having to put your feet down. The wheels are fully stopped moving and you balance.
I think it was MDU who would get close to 30 seconds stopped while just balancing.

LOL, yup. I've dropped that little bit of entertainment to appease the habitual observers. The G/F is way better, she's gone over 6 minutes. She had to put a foot down to light a fag.....