Motorcyclist collides with car?

[pritch]

"A motorcyclist has broken his leg after colliding with a car in New Plymouth on Tuesday."

OK, so I'm not a crash investigator, but from looking at that photo I get the distinct impression that the the rider was more of a collidee than a collider.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/72083568/motorcyclist-thrown-from-bike-in-crash-involving-car

[EJK]

Constable Tony Demchy said the man had sustained leg injuries but the female occupant of the car was fine.

Of course, woman was driving.

Was she Asian?

[Ender EnZed]

"Not clear how the accident occurred."

Sure looks like a real mystery.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/6/w/z/n/b/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349. 16x01c.png/1442306265178.jpg

[Black Knight]

Stop sign-boy racer vehicle-go figure.

[Banditbandit]

"A motorcyclist has broken his leg after colliding with a car in New Plymouth on Tuesday."

OK, so I'm not a crash investigator, but from looking at that photo I get the distinct impression that the the rider was more of a collidee than a collider.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/72083568/motorcyclist-thrown-from-bike-in-crash-involving-car

"collides with" does not imply causality or responsibility - that's why the reporters use that word ...

But yeah ... the car is coming off a stop sign ... and hits the bike ... pretty obvious what happened there ...

[5ive]

"A motorcyclist has broken his leg after colliding with a car in New Plymouth on Tuesday."

OK, so I'm not a crash investigator, but from looking at that photo I get the distinct impression that the the rider was more of a collidee than a collider.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/72083568/motorcyclist-thrown-from-bike-in-crash-involving-car

Firstly, you're reading an article on the Stuff website... what did you expect in terms of reporting/journalism/grammar (or lack of).

Secondly, without an official accident report and/or court ruling, it is not legally responsible to print or broadcast information that may defame a person involved within the story. You can't presume guilt or innocence, sway public opinion, hinder the investigation or outcome of an investigation and/or court case.

[EJK]

Stop sign-boy racer vehicle-go figure.

Could be said the same for the rider.

"Typical male adrenaline junkie in 20s riding a high powered motorcycle...".

[James Deuce]

"collides with" does not imply causality or responsibility - that's why the reporters use that word ...


You're actually completely wrong. The phrasing does imply blame. "An accident involving" does not. I analysed this in 2008-2009. Roughly 98% of multi vehicle accidents involving motorcycles listed in Fairfax online publications used the phrase "Motorcycle" or "Motorcyclist" collided with (insert other vehicle here). It is so rare that it is listed the other way as to be a simply a brain fart on the part of the person lodging the report who forgot the "rules". I had and still have my suspicions that Fairfax have a policy of implying blame on the part of any motorcyclist involved in any accident that rates as newsworthy.

[Banditbandit]

You're actually completely wrong. The phrasing does imply blame. "An accident involving" does not. I analysed this in 2008-2009. Roughly 98% of multi vehicle accidents involving motorcycles listed in Fairfax online publications used the phrase "Motorcycle" or "Motorcyclist" collided with (insert other vehicle here). It is so rare that it is listed the other way as to be a simply a brain fart on the part of the person lodging the report who forgot the "rules". I had and still have my suspicions that Fairfax have a policy of implying blame on the part of any motorcyclist involved in any accident that rates as newsworthy.

Whatever your personal connotations of the wording are, journalists who assign blame can be done for libel if their apportionment of that blame is wrong ...

In reporting circles, and tested in legal forums, "collided with" does not imply blame. If Fairfax have apportioned blame as you suggest, then the said motorcyclist can sue for libel - but I doubt they would win and I doubt any libel lawyer would take the case ...

Now, semantic and linguistically, in the subject-verb-object relationship, the subject is usually seen as the active participant - however the passive nature of "collided with" negates that implication ... "collided with" does not construct an active involvement on the part of the subject becasue the verb is passive (and that does not mean not moving).

P.S. I'd love to see your analysis.

[willytheekid]

....without an official accident report and/or court ruling, it is not legally responsible to print or broadcast information that may defame a person involved within the story. You can't presume guilt or innocence, sway public opinion, hinder the investigation or outcome of an investigation and/or court case.

YEAH!!:yes:...But we KBers are still allowed to aye? :confused:

(good!)...fuckin cager's! :msn-wink:

[5ive]

YEAH!!:yes:...But we KBers are still allowed to aye? :confused:

(good!)...fuckin cager's! :msn-wink:

For now, but the law is slowly catching up to the internet in order to protect the feelings of very special snowflakes.

[J.A.W.]

J-D nailed it! Well done, a - 100% - accurate appraisal.

[awa355]

Firstly, you're reading an article on the Stuff website... what did you expect in terms of reporting/journalism/grammar (or lack of).

Secondly, without an official accident report and/or court ruling, it is not legally responsible to print or broadcast information that may defame a person involved within the story. You can't presume guilt or innocence, sway public opinion, hinder the investigation or outcome of an investigation and/or court case.

This is KB. You can say anything (and many do) without a shred of fact, evidence, experience, knowledge or ability to reason. :shutup::shutup::shutup::shutup:

[Laava]

Of course, woman was driving.

Was she Asian?

Thass wasiss!

[pritch]

I understand that the Police don't have the same ability to leap to conclusions that we do, but sometimes the statements they make seem decidedly naff. The Police man on the scene apparently told the press that investigations would continue. Once upon a time we had a Transport Department who would have dealt with the whole thing there and then.

A while back there was a fatal head on crash on a straight section of dry road, in daylight, no intersection, and the Snr Sgt came up with this'
"There are some wheel marks on the side of the grass which indicates one of the vehicles may have been on the wrong side of the road,"

I'da thunk in most head on crashes one of the vehicles was on the wrong side of the road but...

When I first read about this accident I used my freedom to leap, one of the drivers was 69 the other was 86, it is quite possible that one of the victims experienced a medical emergency at the wheel. Whether the Police investigation can determine that or not I don't know.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/67960213/two-killed-in-new-plymouth-crash

[5ive]

Let me know when you guys start getting paid to po$t your dribble here on KB, also let me know when more than a handfull of people bother reading it.

I want in on that action :msn-wink:

[Maha]

Of course, woman was driving.

Was she Asian?

Drivers name has been released...Sum Ting Wong and his passenger Ho Lee Fuk.

[R650R]

You're actually completely wrong. The phrasing does imply blame. "An accident involving" does not. I analysed this in 2008-2009. Roughly 98% of multi vehicle accidents involving motorcycles listed in Fairfax online publications used the phrase "Motorcycle" or "Motorcyclist" collided with (insert other vehicle here). It is so rare that it is listed the other way as to be a simply a brain fart on the part of the person lodging the report who forgot the "rules". I had and still have my suspicions that Fairfax have a policy of implying blame on the part of any motorcyclist involved in any accident that rates as newsworthy.

The same happens across all publications if a truck is involved... and it gets called a truck even if its a light commercial vehicle or dinky little milk truck etc....
I'm not sure whats the greater crime, the accidental or deliberate error in grammar or getting obsessed about it to start with....

Couple years ago we had our local paper get arse whipped by police for reporting 'Police car collides with motorist" or similar outside our airport. The actual circumstance was the cop minding own business at 80kish when car pulled out from give way sign, failed to use merging lane and crossed into path of cop car. Funny it was about the only time they took notice of multiple reader comments about one of there many errors.

[R650R]

Whatever your personal connotations of the wording are, journalists who assign blame can be done for libel if their apportionment of that blame is wrong ...

In reporting circles, and tested in legal forums, "collided with" does not imply blame. If Fairfax have apportioned blame as you suggest, then the said motorcyclist can sue for libel - but I doubt they would win and I doubt any libel lawyer would take the case ...

Now, semantic and linguistically, in the subject-verb-object relationship, the subject is usually seen as the active participant - however the passive nature of "collided with" negates that implication ... "collided with" does not construct an active involvement on the part of the subject becasue the verb is passive (and that does not mean not moving).

P.S. I'd love to see your analysis.

Are you claiming passive for past tense as opposed to using 'collides with'. Is a Thug who 'stabbed' an old ladynot guilty as opposed to a thug who 'stabs' an old lady????

[Banditbandit]

Are you claiming passive for past tense as opposed to using 'collides with'. Is a Thug who 'stabbed' an old ladynot guilty as opposed to a thug who 'stabs' an old lady????

No passive in a linguistic sense ... this has nothing to do with tenses ... passive verbs can be past, present or future .. the subject undergoes the action - the motorcycle collided with the car - rather than doing it - the motorcycle ran into the car ...

Go here ... http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/active-and-passive-verbs

[caspernz]

You're actually completely wrong. The phrasing does imply blame. "An accident involving" does not. I analysed this in 2008-2009. Roughly 98% of multi vehicle accidents involving motorcycles listed in Fairfax online publications used the phrase "Motorcycle" or "Motorcyclist" collided with (insert other vehicle here). It is so rare that it is listed the other way as to be a simply a brain fart on the part of the person lodging the report who forgot the "rules". I had and still have my suspicions that Fairfax have a policy of implying blame on the part of any motorcyclist involved in any accident that rates as newsworthy.

Same goes for train hits car, technically impossible unless the train jumps off the tracks. You get in the way of a train I'd say.

And how often does a car pull out in front of a truck and gets snotted, with the headline reading truck hits car, technically correct but wrongly slanted.

Journalism is a lost art, we no longer get a news report, we've been getting the opinion of some journo instead of the facts.

[pritch]

Let me know when you guys start getting paid to po$t your dribble here on KB, also let me know when more than a handfull of people bother reading it.


Is your mother a policeman?

[caspernz]

Let me know when you guys start getting paid to po$t your dribble here on KB, also let me know when more than a handfull of people bother reading it.

I want in on that action :msn-wink:

We've been getting paid for years. Didn't you get your invite to this party?? :confused::eek::bleh::wings:

[Akzle]

"collides with" does not imply causality or responsibility - that's why the reporters use that word ...

But yeah ... the car is coming off a stop sign ... and hits the bike ... pretty obvious what happened there ...

yeah but.

The whole thing is poorly said.

'a motorcyclist has broken his leg'... Did he now, why would he do that?

Not 'a motorcyclist had his leg broken' or 'left with a broken leg after...' or 'motocyclist has a broken leg'

but HAS broken HIS leg.

[Str8 Jacket]

Yep, I got taken out by a car 6 week ago and broke my leg. Guy is going to court for careless casuing injury and the report still states that I collided with a car.

[Swoop]

Firstly, you're reading an article on the Stuff website... what did you expect in terms of reporting/journalism/grammar (or lack of).

What he said.

"stuff" is a gossip site and nothing more.

[5ive]

Is your mother a policeman?

No, why is that?

[russd7]

I don't understand how people have missed it. it is obvious that the motorcyclist ran the stop sign plowing in to that poor lady in her car, she was obviously so concerned about the safety of the motorcyclist that she moved her car around to block off the side road so no one else could run through it and cause more damage, damned dangerous those motorbikes:no:

[J.A.W.]

I don't understand how people have missed it. it is obvious that the motorcyclist ran the stop sign plowing in to that poor lady in her car, she was obviously so concerned about the safety of the motorcyclist that she moved her car around to block off the side road so no one else could run through it and cause more damage, damned dangerous those motorbikes:no:


Dr Dumbask sez..

"Indeed, these well known facts are so self evident that it is a given.. & we all know - full well - that life's cheap to that kind of organ donor - anyhow"..

[Berries]

I don't understand how people have missed it. it is obvious that the motorcyclist ran the stop sign plowing in to that poor lady in her car,
Who knows. If you look at the intersection on Google there is no island at the intersection yet there is one in the crash photo. Obviously a bit of a history for crashes here. In Google you can also see how restricted the visibility is to the right from where the car pulled out. I assume that the skid mark is from the bike so they should be able to have a bit of a guess of the speed coming down that hill. Factor in that it was a black bike (statistically the worst colour for lower body injuries*) and it was bound to happen. That ambulance parked where it is wouldn't have helped with the visibility either.





* I lied about that bit.

[BMWST?]

Motorcyclist thrown from bike in crash involving car
thats the headline.A crash "involving " a car.Its not a car crash involving a motorcyclist,its a motorcyclist crashing which involves a car.Thats quite different to what actually happend in my view

[TheDemonLord]

Let me know when you guys start getting paid to po$t your dribble here on KB, also let me know when more than a handfull of people bother reading it.

I want in on that action :msn-wink:

Get a Job in IT - get paid to post on KB to the tune of $30/hr

[pritch]

"stuff" is a gossip site and nothing more.

It could be worse.

Britain has some truly awful rags. The new appointed opposition spokesman in received a phone call.
"I'm a journalist at the Sun."
"Look, you can be one thing or the other, but you can't be both."

Love it!

[5ive]

Get a Job in IT - get paid to post on KB to the tune of $30/hr

Take a pay cut, and deal with other people's problems?

Doesn't seem that great a deal tbh...

[TheDemonLord]

Take a pay cut, and deal with other people's problems?

Doesn't seem that great a deal tbh...

I don't deal with other people's problems - I post on KB remember.....

[EJK]

Get a Job in IT - get paid to post on KB to the tune of $30/hr

Your company is paying too much! I can get you Indian IT techs. They'll work for two naan breads/ hour.

[Big Dog]

Your company is paying too much! I can get you Indian IT techs. They'll work for two naan breads/ hour.
The truth so often spoke in jest.

Sent via tapatalk.

[TheDemonLord]

Your company is paying too much! I can get you Indian IT techs. They'll work for two naan breads/ hour.

Yeaaaaaah - I've worked with those Naan Bread techs - not worth the price of a Pita.

[EJK]

Yeaaaaaah - I've worked with those Naan Bread techs - not worth the price of a Pita.

Don't be racist.

[J.A.W.]

Don't be racist.

Don't be an apologist.. fact check..the Indian measured mean IQ.. is 80..


Ok, apologies.. I followed my own advice, did the fact check & found that I'd, ah, - sold them short - its actually - 82..

[Big Dog]

Lol, not quite naan bread technical but a former company "best shored" part of our teams responsibility to save or team of four about 10-20 hours a week.

After 3 months it had really only saved our team about 5 hours a week because of the amount of rework.

How many on the mystery team? 6 mcsas and 4 other techs.
They all cost less than one additional seat in nz.

Don't even get me started on what that did to our sla for avg time to resolution or first call resolution.


In most thinks in life you get what you pay for. Maybe less but rarely more.

Sent via tapatalk.

[TheDemonLord]

Don't be an apologist.. fact check..the Indian measured mean IQ.. is 80..

Well - Imma gonna have to disagree with you there.

Since IQ is a bell curve (not an absolute scale) the average (or Mean) IQ will always be 100 (for any given group)

And to expand on my comment: Many of them have wrote learnt how to fix a problem:

Do A, then B, then C.

The minute that something happens that requires them to think outside the box, they are useless.

[J.A.W.]

Well - Imma gonna have to disagree with you there.

Since IQ is a bell curve (not an absolute scale) the average (or Mean) IQ will always be 100 (for any given group)

And to expand on my comment: Many of them have wrote learnt how to fix a problem:

Do A, then B, then C.

The minute that something happens that requires them to think outside the box, they are useless.


The given group is humanity, obviously, normalised.. look up international/ethnic comparisons if you are interested, some results are a bit of a shocker..

[Gremlin]

And to expand on my comment: Many of them have wrote learnt how to fix a problem:

Do A, then B, then C.

The minute that something happens that requires them to think outside the box, they are useless.
You mean read A, then B, then C. Even if you tried to skip to D by mentioning certain key things... :facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

You mean read A, then B, then C. Even if you tried to skip to D by mentioning certain key things... :facepalm:

This.

All of this.

[EJK]

This.

All of this.

Atleast they know how to use a phone and read in English. Have you heard bros and cuzzies speak proper English before?

[J.A.W.]

Atleast they know how to use a phone and read in English. Have you heard bros and cuzzies speak proper English before?

Dikshit.. they can't tell V from W..

[EJK]

Dikshit.. they can't tell V from W..

Dude, only alphabets cuzzies can spell out is K F C.

[J.A.W.]

Dude, only alphabets cuzzies can spell out is K F C.

Nah - they can spell D-O-L-E , & B-E-E-R, & B-R-O..

[Berries]

Lol, not quite naan bread technical but a former company "best shored" part of our teams responsibility to save or team of four about 10-20 hours a week.

After 3 months it had really only saved our team about 5 hours a week because of the amount of rework.

How many on the mystery team? 6 mcsas and 4 other techs.
They all cost less than one additional seat in nz.

Don't even get me started on what that did to our sla for avg time to resolution or first call resolution.


In most thinks in life you get what you pay for. Maybe less but rarely more.

Sent via tapatalk.
I bet their typing skills were better than this though.

[Big Dog]

I bet their typing skills were better than this though.

What is wing with my tapatalk typing?
Rofl.

Edit.
Reality - They didn't type notes. They just closed the job when they thought it was done.

[Gremlin]

Atleast they know how to use a phone and read in English. Have you heard bros and cuzzies speak proper English before?
You haven't called Lenovo then. Clearly someone said to them VOIP was the best, then they wanted it delivered for a fraction of the price, because the quality of the line is so bad at times I tell them it's not worth it, I'll ring back...

Actually, that isn't their worst problem... they sent the same part to me 3-4 times and also sent me emails saying they were looking for the part <_<

[Big Dog]

You haven't called Lenovo then. Clearly someone said to them VOIP was the best, then they wanted it delivered for a fraction of the price, because the quality of the line is so bad at times I tell them it's not worth it, I'll ring back...

Actually, that isn't their worst problem... they sent the same part to me 3-4 times and also sent me emails saying they were looking for the part <_<
They sent me a whole laptop to replace some dead ram in a laptop that only had a couple of weeks to go on contract.
According to the packing slip it was 2gb of ram for xyz model.

Dell went one better. When a rep drove over her laptop they sent a tech. He ran some tests. They sent him a pile of parts taller than him and he came back and assembled it.
The only surviving part? The SSD.
Less than a month later he was back to replace that.

Sent via tapatalk.

[Gremlin]

Dell went one better. When a rep drove over her laptop they sent a tech. He ran some tests. They sent him a pile of parts taller than him and he came back and assembled it.
The only surviving part? The SSD.
Less than a month later he was back to replace that.
:killingme Gotta love that by the book idea. Could have sent an entire machine sans drive... probably cheaper!

Least you had something to work with. A few years back in Australian floods I got a call... We need two more laptops soon as. Ours have gone floating down the river in the ute :crazy:

[rastuscat]

Yep, I got taken out by a car 6 week ago and broke my leg. Guy is going to court for careless casuing injury and the report still states that I collided with a car.


You did. Nobody says whose fault it is. That's a different subject. You collided with a car and the car collided with you.

It's how verbs work.

[oneofsix]

You did. Nobody says whose fault it is. That's a different subject. You collided with a car and the car collided with you.

It's how verbs work.

Whilst technically correct it is not the way it works in the public mind. The first mentioned is usually taken as the culprit, for instance because it would never be said that a fence collide with a car but always it would be that the car collide with the fence, then the doer is presumed to be the initially mentioned, A hit B.

[nzspokes]

You did. Nobody says whose fault it is. That's a different subject. You collided with a car and the car collided with you.

It's how verbs work.

Cops work on the principle that its always the bikes fault. This is predetermined.

[Berries]

Cops work on the principle that its always the bikes fault. This is predetermined.
Utter shit. A number of the cops I know also ride including SCU. From what I have seen they very much do not work that way unless there is damning evidence to the contrary. Unfortunately there often is.

[rastuscat]

Utter shit. A number of the cops I know also ride including SCU. From what I have seen they very much do not work that way unless there is damning evidence to the contrary. Unfortunately there often is.

Sadly I have to disagree.

I attended a car v bike years back at the top of the Albany hill, when that was SH1. It was the night Oz played NZ at football at North Harbour stadium.

The bike rider was a local part time gang member, with previous for a variety of things. The cops who turned up decided it was his fault, end of story.

Me and a couple of the older ex-traffic cops had our suspicions, so we went and did some scene examinations the next day. It was apparent from the scene that the vehicles involved had been in different locations than first suspected. No Serious Crash Unit back in those days.

Subsequently the car driver was charged, and convicted.

It's too easy to close your eyes and see what you want to see, carrying personal beliefs into the outcome.

I know quite a few Police bikers, but I also know a few with dark views toward bikers.

[Big Dog]

Sadly I have to disagree.

I attended a car v bike years back at the top of the Albany hill, when that was SH1. It was the night Oz played NZ at football at North Harbour stadium.

The bike rider was a local part time gang member, with previous for a variety of things. The cops who turned up decided it was his fault, end of story.

Me and a couple of the older ex-traffic cops had our suspicions, so we went and did some scene examinations the next day. It was apparent from the scene that the vehicles involved had been in different locations than first suspected. No Serious Crash Unit back in those days.

Subsequently the car driver was charged, and convicted.

It's too easy to close your eyes and see what you want to see, carrying personal beliefs into the outcome.

I know quite a few Police bikers, but I also know a few with dark views toward bikers.
No doubt formed by previous experience.
Most non biker attitudes to bikers are formed by their most memorable experiences of them.

It always makes me laugh when people dress like 1%ers and ride around on Harley's and wonder why cops treat them like... 1%ers.

Sent via tapatalk.

[russd7]

used to be a time when the gangs had a police escort (or at least tail) every where they went. was quite common as a young fella in the BOP to see the locals heading put of town in a group with a police car following. ahhhh them were the days

[RichardB]

Hhahahaha...remember stopping at Punakiki for a pee , and moving our jappa bikes away to a safe distance as a convoy of police cars and one of the Sth Island bike gangs pulled in. And away in the distance a lone jappa bike appears, pulls in and parks up right in the middle of the gang. Wee jap bloke, leather pudding bowl helmet, Hiro Hito glasses and squinty eyes, speaking not a word of english - but it was his bike that stole the show - and the admiration of the bikies. An absolute mint Honda 305 dream. The guy either had no idea of why the police escorted them around or had elephant balls (and probably a wicked martial arts background!).

[Virago]

The best blame journalism I've seen was in the States a while back. A group of motorcyclists had stopped in a queue at a red light. A garbage truck slams into them from behind, killing three and injuring six others. The resulting CBS news report:

"Three people were killed Thursday afternoon and six others critically injured when several motorcycles collided with a truck hauling garbage on the Carefree Highway in north Phoenix.../...the accident happened when the riders got too close to the big rig."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/phoenix-motorcycle-crash-kills-3/

[Akzle]

Thursday afternoon and six others critically injured when several motorcycles collided with a truck hauling garbage on the Carefree Highway in north Phoenix.../...the accident happened when the riders got too close to the big rig."
[/url]

technically: correct

[Swoop]

technically: correct

Technically: Up to the standards of the NZ Harold or "stuffed-full-of-bullshit".

[awayatc]

Like blaming somebody bleeding on your clothing after you stabbed him.....

[pritch]

Yeah, or like the American cops who beat the crap out of a guy and then charged him with damaging government property 'cause he got his blood on their uniforms.

[EJK]

Technically: Up to the standards of the NZ Harold or "stuffed-full-of-bullshit".

I don't consider Stuffed news. It's a site for attracting and encouraging low life readers by starting firey debates and biased opinions to generate attention. It's a fricking circus for people who wants scandals, controversies and who to blame (e.g. VW was this weeks special).

I think it was last week: I read an "opinion" article about how some guy in Auckland owns over 100 houses at age of 30 or something. Hell, why the fuck would you report on that shit at the peak of Auckland's real estate crisis? What purpose does it gain apart from site traffic rates? You don't post shit like that for the "news".

Their Fuckbook page is even worse. It's like tossing a piece of meat to a pack of hungry stray dogs. Fuck fairfax.


Yeah, or like the American cops who beat the crap out of a guy and then charged him with damaging government property 'cause he got his blood on their uniforms.

Technically they did.

[Maha]

used to be a time when the gangs had a police escort (or at least tail) every where they went. was quite common as a young fella in the BOP to see the locals heading put of town in a group with a police car following. ahhhh them were the days

I clearly remember those times, cars would have to pull over and let them past. I guess the cops were there to make sure they kept moving and to have some sort of control over the situation.