Carb/injection compared?

[LBD]

Hi Guys

Back when bikes started coming out with fuel injection.... Did anyone have the same model 4 cyl. road bike twice... one carburettor fuelled and then the other with fuel injection...same cc and advertised power.

What differences did you notice if any?

Thanks

[Akzle]

Hi Guys

Back when bikes started coming out with fuel injection.... Did anyone have the same model 4 cyl. road bike twice... one carburettor fuelled and then the other with fuel injection...same cc and advertised power.

What differences did you notice if any?

Thanks

carbys are baws

[caspernz]

GSX-R750 for me. Late 80's was a carby version, late 90's was injected. Too many other differences to draw any meaningful conclusion.

One thing I definitely don't miss from the earlier versions was the woeful rubber, never mind how it was fuelled :eek::laugh:

[LBD]

baws

Speak English... wots baws?

[Drew]

97 GSXR750, and a 98 GSXR750. Only difference between the bikes is fueling. Spent decent seat time on both.

Injected is smooth and useable, carved was peaky and tended to take a lot of getting used to.

[SVboy]

Speak English... wots baws?

It's a Northland dialect, loosely translated it means " my name is axle and I am a fuckwit who doesn't even own a bike, let alone know anything about them"

[tigertim20]

i thought the 01, and 02 R1 motors were basically the same, apart from the 02 being injected.

supposed to be slightly better power and slightly better economy was my understanding.

injection also supposed to provide more linear power delivery

[tri boy]

Mate had a carbed GPZ1100, then the early inj one.
He preferred the carbs.
The early injection units were pretty basic,

[GrayWolf]

Mate had a carbed GPZ1100, then the early inj one.
He preferred the carbs.
The early injection units were pretty basic,

was about to mention that one myself, GPz1100's of the early 80's the injection was thirstier and overall not as pleasant a ride, the Yamaha XJ750 injection.... used the same bodywork as the 750 turbo, seemed an OK attempt. but really no good injection systems around till the late 90's.

[T.W.R]

was about to mention that one myself, GPz1100's of the early 80's the injection was thirstier and overall not as pleasant a ride, the Yamaha XJ750 injection.... used the same bodywork as the 750 turbo, seemed an OK attempt. but really no good injection systems around till the late 90's.

The 84 XJ750D had a Hitachi injection system, fuelled a lot better over the standard carbed Xj750, was more economical & had a couple more hp also; had one of the 1st ones in chch imported by Pacific Motorcycles as a grey import went really well until it fried the ecu (cost half the purchase price of the bike for a new one ex japan). Its the 650 turbo too, the 750d had a full digital dash & fancier computer system....almost identical bikes at a glance but a few differences & one of the best fully faired bikes I've ridden for weather protection

[LBD]

Thanks Guys... not much in it and seems to have been different from model to model...

It is the XJR1300 before and after I was particular interested in ... 2005/2006 change to injection

[BASS-TREBLE]

I have a 06 Bandit 1200 which was the last year of the oil cooled carbed engines.
I've removed the carbs and fitted throttle bodies from an injected bike along with a new ECU etc.

Engine is definitely more lively, mainly as the throttle response is now really sharp and as others mentioned fuel economy gets better.

It really depends a lot though on what the carb setup was previously. If they are CV carbs the throttle response will be slightly 'damped' due to how the slides react but if an engine had flatsides or similar the throttle response would be pretty good as it is.
Also note that a lot of injected bikes have the secondary butterflies which also mellow them down and you might find there isn't all too much in it in a standard setup. This obviously depends on the type of bike as it will be tuned to suit.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah - I have carbed and injected bandits .. the biggest diference is that when you open the throttle on the injected engines something happens ... on the carbed models there is a delay before something happens ...

But hey - that's bugger all in it and just takes a little difference in riding style .

[SVboy]

I can't do a same model comparo, but my carbed gsx 1200 was a lot smoother and easier to ride smoothly than my FZ01 injected, especially at low throttle openings,but the FZ is a lot quicker with throttle response and power. Same with my Wr250 r v my DRZ250. I find most carbs smoother than injection, except my GSXR, which fuels beautifully.

[AllanB]

As a total side note I find it disturbing how many new bike reviews comment on poor fueling (injected bikes) with a typical factory download later on to cure this. Non Japanese as a rule - Triumph and the assorted Italian beasts. Rushed to the dealers to meet a marketing deadline? Or do their test rider just fang the shit out of them everywhere and don;t give a shit about lower rev stumbles.

[Voltaire]

As a total side note I find it disturbing how many new bike reviews comment on poor fueling (injected bikes) with a typical factory download later on to cure this. Non Japanese as a rule - Triumph and the assorted Italian beasts. Rushed to the dealers to meet a marketing deadline? Or do their test rider just fang the shit out of them everywhere and don;t give a shit about lower rev stumbles.

They just haven't worked out the software for the emissions testing.:laugh:

[AllanB]

They just haven't worked out the software for the emissions testing.:laugh:

Probably true - run it out lean to pass then have the dealer download a new map at first service ........ or write a cheat

[SVboy]

Probably true - run it out lean to pass then have the dealer download a new map at first service ........ or write a cheat

Sadly true. Look at the gsx-s1000. Should be perfecto, it's a K5 GSXR motor after all, but no, all testers complain about fueling off idle....emissions! Suzuki should hire some VW technicians when Yamaha has finished with them redoing the FZ09!

[AllanB]

Sadly true. Look at the gsx-s1000. Should be perfecto, it's a K5 GSXR motor after all, but no, all testers complain about fueling off idle....emissions! Suzuki should hire some VW technicians when Yamaha has finished with them redoing the FZ09!

Just read the same re the Suzuki today. Disappointing as the original donk it is based on was a sweet engine. Different standard to meet 10 years later no doubt.

[imdying]

High valve overlap engines have always been shit balls to get past emissions testing. That's why they sell them with a substandard one, and leave the power commander/reflash up to you... they can get nicked for selling polluting shite (see VW recently), and you can't. The K5 came out during what, the Euro 3 period? Things are quite a bit harsher now.

[Blackbird]

I had an injected Blackbird - the 99 model which was the first year after carbs. It was generally acknowledged that a properly set up carbed version was 5-7 km/hr faster than mine but setting up carbs spot on and keeping them there took a bit of work. After that, it all got a bit muddy with emission controls and other mods so comparisons weren't valid.

[Autech]

I had an injected Blackbird - the 99 model which was the first year after carbs. It was generally acknowledged that a properly set up carbed version was 5-7 km/hr faster than mine but setting up carbs spot on and keeping them there took a bit of work. After that, it all got a bit muddy with emission controls and other mods so comparisons weren't valid.

From my understanding there are a fair few Carby SV650s being raced which do the business fine against the EFI models. Someone may put me wrong there as I haven't been to a nationals round in a few years due to work, family, travel etc.

All I know is that I've recently started working on the carbs for my NC30, seems a less exact science compared to my only comparable FI experience, which was assisting with dyno tuning a few cars on a Link ECU's. Seems like getting a bike running properly on carbs takes a lot of fiddling and above all experience, something I really don't have patience for :brick:. Doesn't help when there is 4 of the fucking things!
Down the line I hope to race an EFI bike of some description so I am looking forward to seeing how the turning works on a fuel injected bike as opposed to car. I imagine it is the same, add air, add fuel, add advance relative to throttle input = Power.

[Daffyd]

I had a Kawasaki Fury 125, '08 and a Yamaha VegaForce I 115, '13. Not identical, but close in specification and the Fury had done about 25,000 km. I bought the Yamaha brand new. The Fury returned 49.67 mpg, 17.58 km/l, and the Vega Force I returned 110.18 mpg, 39 km/l.

Not a very scientific report, but I would say the figures show a clear advantage to the FI.

Both sold now pending return to NZ, (and hopefully a real bike again...)