Chris Cairns - Guilty or innocent?

[Stylo]

Looks like hasn't got too many friends out there, all coming out of the woodwork now ...

Perjury, maximum term 7 years.

[Shaun Harris]

Guilty as fuk, never liked the stuck up arrogant poofter either. So ha Fukin ha I say

[caspernz]

Seems guilty as sin to me :facepalm:

Let's see what the court decides.

Only winners in this must be the lawyers :innocent:

[TheDemonLord]

Guilty!!


































Of playing the most godawful boring sport in history.

[Shaun Harris]

Guilty!!


































Of playing the most godawful boring sport in history.


One day is fine for an hour or 2, but F those day after day B Shit games

[husaberg]

Seems guilty as sin to me :facepalm:

Let's see what the court decides.

Only winners in this must be the lawyers :innocent:

He got a large wad of cash in a defamation suit that preceded this when someone named him previously as a Match fixer. 2012

then again gee you are right look at the costs. 3 million Dollars legal fees.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/7894111/Modis-appeal-in-Chris-Cairns-libel-case-denied

One time top cricketer Chris Cairns has won the final round of his British libel case and is set to collect nearly $180,000 in damages from Indian businessman Lalit Modi.

In what was labelled the first ever Twitter defamation case, Cairns, 42, took Modi to the British High Court, winning his case in March.

Modi appealed the verdict but overnight the Court of Appeal in London upheld the libel verdict.

Modi, who when he was chairman of the Indian Premier League, tweeted that Cairns had been involved in match-fixing.

Cairns had told the trial that the allegations posted in January 2010 - read by up to 95 people in the UK and then repeated on a cricketing website for a number of hours - reduced his career to "dust".

In the High Court trial, Justice Bead said that Modi had "singularly failed to provide any reliable evidence that Mr Cairns was involved in match fixing or spot fixing, or even that there were strong grounds for suspicion that he was".

Nearly three years ago Lalit Modi made baseless and outrageous allegations against me as a professional sportsman. He declined to withdraw them. I was fully vindicated at trial in March this year. Mr Modi's appeal, just like his case, was doomed from the start."

Cairns' lawyers are also entitled to collect nearly $3 million in costs from Modi who has also been refused leave to further appeal.

[caspernz]

He got a large wad of cash in a defamation suit that preceded this when someone named him previously as a Match fixer.

Not suggesting there's doubt he's guilty of match fixing, this trial is about perjury. Revisiting the match fixing topic is part of the perjury trial.

[husaberg]

Not suggesting there's doubt he's guilty of match fixing, this trial is about perjury. Revisiting the match fixing topic is part of the perjury trial.

I didn't think you were I actually thought he got heaps more in damages than he did in the last case. That turned out to be incorrect 180,000 vs 3 million in costs, You are right the lawyers won regardless.

[Robbo]

Yep, it's not looking good for him, is it.

I'd say he's fucked and could be looking

at a stint of porridge.

[Trade_nancy]

I believe prior to this he got into some prickly stuff over "misuse" of trust funds while he was supposed to be an advocate for train crossing safety..following the tragic death of his sister on one. He spent a tidy sum of the donated funds jetting 1st class around the world...and on other wastage. Got into the goo over it and most people have forgotten about it...

[Shaun Harris]

I believe prior to this he got into some prickly stuff over "misuse" of trust funds while he was supposed to be an advocate for train crossing safety..following the tragic death of his sister on one. He spent a tidy sum of the donated funds jetting 1st class around the world...and on other wastage. Got into the goo over it and most people have forgotten about it...




I never read about that

[jasonu]

Lance must be turning in his grave.

[Akzle]

c) no fucks given.

Meanwhile back to the really important news in whangarei

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=316741&stc=1&d=1445403506

[PrincessBandit]

I'm surprised he isn't resorting to "I never ever cheated in ICC games" (as opposed to unsanctioned ones...) It's all in the interpretation.

[husaberg]

Lance must be turning in his grave.

He might if he had one.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kgjpv_brutal-wasim-akram-almost-killed-lance-cairns-blast-from-past_news

Its a shame to tarnish the name though, I worshiped Lance growing up.
I still remember that cameo he did as himself for some comedy likely written by Macphail and Gadsby and Rodger Halls
What was that series called? it was set in some rural town like letter to blanchy but it wasn't

[T.W.R]

He might if he had one.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kgjpv_brutal-wasim-akram-almost-killed-lance-cairns-blast-from-past_news

Its a shame to tarnish the name though, I worshiped Lance growing up.
I still remember that cameo he did as himself for some comedy likely written by Macphail and Gadsby and Rodger Halls
What was that series called? it was set in some rural town like letter to blanchy but it wasn't

Yep Letter to Blanchy.....filmed at what was known as "The Rabbiters Rest" pub, now the Springston Hotel. Blanchy is real person too; one of the old school salmon gurus at the Rangitata River...... Gadsby, Mcphail, & Hall are all salmon nuts (see them regularly down the Rakaia). The whole story was based on actual letters between Mcphail & Blanchy.

Bet Lance is disgusted at what Chris has been upto; Least being deaf he doesn't have to listen to the bullshit.
In the more direct version of what I put in the RWC thread.....Chris is a pompous arrogant cunt, was a kid & through his teens got worse; a leopard never changes its spots. Hope he fries :msn-wink:

[Woodman]

He might if he had one.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kgjpv_brutal-wasim-akram-almost-killed-lance-cairns-blast-from-past_news

Its a shame to tarnish the name though, I worshiped Lance growing up.
I still remember that cameo he did as himself for some comedy likely written by Macphail and Gadsby and Rodger Halls
What was that series called? it was set in some rural town like letter to blanchy but it wasn't

Rabbiters Rest.........

[nzspokes]

Guilty!!

Of playing the most godawful boring sport in history.

Nail hit on head.

[J.A.W.]

Yep Letter to Blanchy.....filmed at what was known as "The Rabbiters Rest" pub, now the Springston Hotel. Blanchy is real person too; one of the old school salmon gurus at the Rangitata River...... Gadsby, Mcphail, & Hall are all salmon nuts (see them regularly down the Rakaia). The whole story was based on actual letters between Mcphail & Blanchy.

Bet Lance is disgusted at what Chris has been upto; Least being deaf he doesn't have to listen to the bullshit.
In the more direct version of what I put in the RWC thread.....Chris is a pompous arrogant cunt, was a kid & through his teens got worse; a leopard never changes its spots. Hope he fries :msn-wink:


Damn.. aint no tall-poppy clippers like them as Kiwi's wield eh, you jokers..

Next you'll be demanding ol' 'Aussie' Ed Hillary is dug up & retrospectively hanged for not letting the little wog bloke step up on the summit, 1st..

[husaberg]

Rabbiters Rest.........


Yep Letter to Blanchy.....filmed at what was known as "The Rabbiters Rest" pub, now the Springston Hotel. Blanchy is real person too; one of the old school salmon gurus at the Rangitata River...... Gadsby, Mcphail, & Hall are all salmon nuts (see them regularly down the Rakaia). The whole story was based on actual letters between Mcphail & Blanchy.

Bet Lance is disgusted at what Chris has been upto; Least being deaf he doesn't have to listen to the bullshit.
In the more direct version of what I put in the RWC thread.....Chris is a pompous arrogant cunt, was a kid & through his teens got worse; a leopard never changes its spots. Hope he fries :msn-wink:

I thought so too about the deafness but it seems he has had cochlear ear implants now never knew he was deaf at 17 though.

So it was Rabbiters rest and that was the prequel to letter to blanchy. I thought there was character called china or something so I came up with this one?

http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/jocko-1981/series

But yeah I think it might be this one
<!-- Start NZ On Screen - Rabbiter's Rest - A Fair Cop - Badge --> <a href="http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/rabbiters-rest-a-fair-cop-1983" > <img src="http://www.nzonscreen.com/content/badges/rabbiters-rest-a-fair-cop-1983.horizontal-badge.jpg" width="330" height="90" alt="Rabbiter's Rest - A Fair Cop" /></a>


can't remember this one but fast forward to 5 mintes abd guess who it is
<!-- Start NZ On Screen - Loose Enz - The Pumice Land - Badge --> <a href="http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/loose-enz-the-pumice-land-1981" > <img src="http://www.nzonscreen.com/content/badges/loose-enz-the-pumice-land-1981.horizontal-badge.jpg" width="330" height="90" alt="Loose Enz - The Pumice Land" /></a>

[Stylo]

I see David Macphail occasionally at the local Pak'n save. Quite a diminutive character with his messy hair and slippers or sand shoes on.

Mostly with a bottle or cask of wine in his trolley and not much else. Shame to hear about Gadsby too with the cancer thing, damn.

[J.A.W.]

I see David Macphail occasionally at the local Pak'n save. Quite a diminutive character with his messy hair and slippers or sand shoes on.

Mostly with a bottle or cask of wine in his trolley and not much else. Shame to hear about Gadsby too with the cancer thing, damn.


The big C, eh.. jeeze Wayne.. & shit, how much did they smoke.. on ' A Week of It' ..

Almost a tragedy, train wreck-wise..

[Swoop]

Cricket.

A game that makes "paint drying" look sensational.



Also: OP.where's the poll?

[husaberg]

Cricket.

A game that makes "paint drying" look sensational.



Also: OP.where's the poll?

Katman used them all up, KB is all out of them.

Looks like all the testimony is not much of a surprise to Chris Cairns
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11264508
http://bcove.me/vzjbdmvq
Looks like he has known exactly what to expect from each testimony for well over a year. I wonder who has the fuzzy memory Vetory or Mills.

Ps by all accounts don't tell Brendon McCullum a secret. (HE TELLS EVERYONE)

Cairns sued Modi in London for libel and was awarded damages, but is now subject to the perjury action.

Leanne McGoldrick, who was an agent for McCullum and Cairns, also testified that McCullum had raised the issue with her.

"He said he had had an occasion in England during the New Zealand cricket team tour, that he had met with Chris ... and Chris had asked him whether he knew how to spot fix," McGoldrick said, according to a British Press Association report. "He said that Chris said it was easy to manipulate a result, and it was easy to do."

McGoldrick said McCullum insisted he told Cairns "no," and she advised him to report the incident.

"I asked him if he had reported it and he said he was going to, and he said he had told Dan Vettori - who was his captain," McGoldrick said.

I should add at this point Leanne McGoldick is nowhere near as hot as her Daughter Laura McGoldick. Who is married to Martin Guptill (this is feel is an important part of the case)
316758

[SVboy]

Hes as guilty as Shaun!

[Shaun Harris]

The Lawyers will drag this out for as long as the poss can $$$$$$$$$$$ woo hoo

[Oakie]

Also: OP.where's the poll?

And give me $5 and a packet of crisps and I'll get people to vote so you get the result you want.

[merv]

c) no fucks given.

Meanwhile back to the really important news in whangarei



Do Magic Tyres work a bit like a hover board?

[awa355]

Isn't this the sport of 'gentlemen'? you know, where sportsmanship, integrity is all beyond reproach?

Or was that before money was invented?.

I think McCullum's future (and a few others) might come under the spotlight after all this.

[husaberg]

Isn't this the sport of 'gentlemen'? you know, where sportsmanship, integrity is all beyond reproach?

Or was that before money was invented?.

I think McCullum's future (and a few others) might come under the spotlight after all this.

I am quite prepared keep an eye on Martin Guptils wife.

316760

Pretty sure she is dirty.

[Katman]

Pretty sure she is dirty.

Fuck you're repulsive.

[FJRider]

Isn't this the sport of 'gentlemen'? you know, where sportsmanship, integrity is all beyond reproach?

Or was that before money was invented?.

I think McCullum's future (and a few others) might come under the spotlight after all this.

When money changes hands over a professional sport result ... played by professional's in that sport ... temptation can occur ...


Not a new concept in some sports ..


Proof of ... or even suspicion of .. can be the downside. (throw enough mud and some will stick)


In a court of law ... being found not guilty ... does not always mean they are NOT ..





And does anybody really care about it anymore .. ???

[husaberg]

Fuck you're repulsive.

Who is an angry little neo Nazi tonight then. I'm picking you finally figured out yokels not a girl.
I''m picking a total conspiracy theorist like you would have formulated multiple theories as to who behind this by now, so is it the Yanks the Israelis or the aliens Katman..............:wari:

[ellipsis]

...Chris who?...

[PrincessBandit]

From article today:


"Former New Zealand captain Vettori said in a statement McCullum told him in 2010 that Cairns had spoken to him about spread betting, which he took as a spot-fixing approach. But under cross-examination in Southwark Crown Court by Orlando Pownall, QC, Vettori agreed he'd made a mistake and his statement was "not the truth". McCullum had told him two years earlier, he said.

Pownall put it to him that he'd said October 2010 so that he could not be banned from the game for not reporting what McCullum had told him. McCullum reported the incident in early 2011.

Players can be banned if their is an "undue delay" in them reporting fixing encounters, even if they hear of them through a third party. Vettori said the mistake was "genuine". There had been tours of Bangladesh in 2008 and 2010, McCullum had told him on one of those, and he'd been wrong about which one it was.

He said he'd indicated to International Cricket Council (ICC) anti-corruption investigator John Rhodes he was unsure of the dates when he gave his statement. But when Rhodes gave evidence he did not recall that Vettori had been unsure. Reporting the approach was something Vettori never considered was up to him, he told the jury by video link. "Because the approach wasn't to me, I didn't feel I had an obligation to report it," he told the court. "At no stage did I think it was my responsibility."



The bit that bothers me is that, according to this article, players are supposed to be prompt in reporting even hearsay/rumours and face stiff penalties themselves for not doing that. So are they meant to go bleating to the "authorities" every time they hear a rumour (who knows, could just be malicious)? What if it is about someone they find it hard to take any credence in relation to? Do they nark on someone they admire and aspire to be like as a sportsman just because they hear a little whisper? Do they take their time and try to determine whether there is any substance to the claims? If that be the case, are they in the firing line because they didn't "do their duty and report" immediately?

The ICC have already said they are not the fricken Police so where does this leave players who are then savaged by lawyers (who are, after all, only earning their daily crust hahahahahahaha) - in no mans land! Witnesses are damned either way and the only winners, pointed out earlier, are the lawyers who thrive off the despair and intimidation of people who should have no fear of coming forward.

Yes, I did notice the spelling mistake of "their". I guess proof reading even for media is a dying skill.

[Oscar]

The case isn't about match fixing, it's about lying under oath.

In the libel case, Cairns said something like - "..I have never indulged in match fixing or even talked about it."

It's the last bit that's gonna fuck him.
Whereas it would be hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did spot fix, it has almost certainly already been proven that he did speak to others about it.

The last high profile perjury case in the UK was Jeffrey Archer who got 4 years and served 2.

[awa355]

Rumours of game fixing probably abound every week in professional cricket, and almost every other paid sports.

About the only clever action on Cairn's part to date is his choice of lawyer. I guess they have to determine the spot fixing allegations before perjury can be proved.

[husaberg]

The case isn't about match fixing, it's about lying under oath.

In the libel case, Cairns said something like - "..I have never indulged in match fixing or even talked about it."

It's the last bit that's gonna fuck him.
Whereas it would be hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did spot fix, it has almost certainly already been proven that he did speak to others about it.

The last high profile perjury case in the UK was Jeffrey Archer who got 4 years and served 2.

That wasn't his first offence in regards to dishonesty either. He had a history of other offences, Pretty sure they let him back into the house of lords as well or at least keep the title.
That video he I posted of the Cairns Statement was very carefully worded, yet it appears he was reading it off a cellphone?

[Oscar]

Rumours of game fixing probably abound every week in professional cricket, and almost every other paid sports.

About the only clever action on Cairn's part to date is his choice of lawyer. I guess they have to determine the spot fixing allegations before perjury can be proved.

No they don't.
He's charged with perjury, not spot fixing.
His case at the libel trial was that not only had he never spot fixed, but he had never considered or discussed spot fixing.
All the Crown has to do is prove that he had discussed spot fixing with someone with form in that area (like Lou Vincent) or had tried to entice someone (like McCullum) to spot fix. This, they appear to have done.

[PrincessBandit]

No they don't.
He's charged with perjury, not spot fixing.
His case at the libel trial was that not only had he never spot fixed, but he had never considered or discussed spot fixing.
All the Crown has to do is prove that he had discussed spot fixing with someone with form in that area (like Lou Vincent) or had tried to entice someone (like McCullum) to spot fix. This, they appear to have done.

Except his lawyer is avoiding that conclusion for now...

[pritch]

The case isn't about match fixing, it's about lying under oath.



Exactly. The Indian millionaire accused him of cheating but couldn't prove it and Cairns sued the Indian for libel and won IIRC. Possibly by lying in his teeth in Court. Now it is the lying that he has been charged with. Basically it now comes down to Cairn's word against the small army of witnesses the prosecution have assembled.

Normally during a trial you can't tell what the verdict will be because the trial starts with the prosecution presenting their evidence. The press duly reports this one sided story as news and it always looks bad for the accused. Later, when the defence get to present their case it may be that a totally different picture emerges.

The Indian millionaire will be watching keenly because if Cairns is found guilty he will be slapping him with a legal action of his own to take whatever money Cairns has left after he has paid his lawyer for the current case.

And Cairns really does need to buy himself a suit that fits.

[husaberg]

Exactly. The Indian millionaire accused him of cheating but couldn't prove it and Cairns sued the Indian for libel and won IIRC. Possibly by lying in his teeth in Court. Now it is the lying that he has been charged with. Basically it now comes down to Cairn's word against the small army of witnesses the prosecution have assembled.

Normally during a trial you can't tell what the verdict will be because the trial starts with the prosecution presenting their evidence. The press duly reports this one sided story as news and it always looks bad for the accused. Later, when the defence get to present their case it may be that a totally different picture emerges.

The Indian millionaire will be watching keenly because if Cairns is found guilty he will be slapping him with a legal action of his own to take whatever money Cairns has left after he has paid his lawyer for the current case.

And Cairns really does need to buy himself a suit that fits.

Thats the normal procedure and chain of events but in this case they need to prove what was said by the Prosecution witnesses as being untruthful the only opportunity is in cross examination.
While he might be able to provide character witnesses etc. Unless he has witnesses that were there and can refute the witness testimony his only option is taking the stand himself.
That could be a trainwreck in waiting. Most murder cases the Accused is heavily advised not to take the stand and leave themselves open to cross examination.
Yet I can't see he has any other options, unless he can provide other witnesses who were there.


International Cricket Council (ICC) intelligence unit former general manager Ravinder Sawani told the court what it had on Cairns was "beyond rumour". The unit had been gathering intelligence on Cairns, he said to the London court.
Asked by crown prosecutor Sasha Wass, QC, whether he had material that suggested Cairns "might have been involved" in match-fixing in the ICL, Sawani responded "yes".
It could not investigate Cairns as he had retired from cricket, and his alleged activities in the ICL were beyond its reach, as the ICL was not sanctioned by the ICC, Sawani told the jury.
"Mr Cairns was no longer a cricketer who was involved in cricket so the decision was taken not to investigate him," he told the court.http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/73309826/chris-cairns-trial-anticorruption-unit-had-intelligence-on-cairns-matchfixing


No they don't.
He's charged with perjury, not spot fixing.
His case at the libel trial was that not only had he never spot fixed, but he had never considered or discussed spot fixing.
All the Crown has to do is prove that he had discussed spot fixing with someone with form in that area (like Lou Vincent) or had tried to entice someone (like McCullum) to spot fix. This, they appear to have done.

It would be rather ironic if he did lose this case as it appears it need not have even happened


It emerged in court that Modi had offered Cairns £75,000 (NZ$145,000) damages last April but Cairns rejected that and requested a role as a coach in the Indian Premier League or a satellite tournament in Sri Lanka or Australia instead. Justice Bean said: "I'm satisfied Mr Cairns was justified in coming to trial to get the vindication which he has sought."


He only got
£90,000 (NZ$174,000) damages plus legal fees.

[Swoop]

Isn't this the sport of 'gentlemen'? you know...
No. It is a game.
There is an agreed set of rules.

[Winston001]

He got a large wad of cash in a defamation suit that preceded this when someone named him previously as a Match fixer. 2012

then again gee you are right look at the costs. 3 million Dollars legal fees.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/7894111/Modis-appeal-in-Chris-Cairns-libel-case-denied

Yeah but maybe not. Modi declared in bankruptcy after the trial and may not have paid anything. Which means Cairns was stuck with paying his own lawyers, plus having to ante up for this trial. He must be a wealthy man.

[Winston001]

Only winners in this must be the lawyers :innocent:

Well I certainly hope so. Doing trials like this is not easy. There are probably 15 binders (500 pages each) of evidence and each lawyer has to hold all of this in their memory while watching and cross-examining witnesses.

Watch a trial sometime - switching from bundle 3 page 281 paragraph 36 to bundle 7 page 422 paragraph 5 - that contradicts your evidence here today doesn't it?

[husaberg]

Yeah but maybe not. Modi declared in bankruptcy after the trial and may not have paid anything. Which means Cairns was stuck with paying his own lawyers, plus having to ante up for this trial. He must be a wealthy man.

It emerged in court that Modi had offered Cairns £75,000 (NZ$145,000) damages last April but Cairns rejected that and requested a role as a coach in the Indian Premier League or a satellite tournament in Sri Lanka or Australia instead. Justice Bean said: "I'm satisfied Mr Cairns was justified in coming to trial to get the vindication which he has sought."

He only got
£90,000 (NZ$174,000) damages plus legal fees.
two posts above I did an add up. Mr cairns has far far far more to loose than he will ever gain, it will be very ironic if falsely pursuing the original legal action bites him on the bum after refusing a cash settlement in the first place. A cash settlement that he likely did not deserve at all.

[husaberg]

I missed Andre Adams

Andre Adams latest to testify in Cairns trial

Monday 19th October

Former New Zealand bowler Andre Adams was the latest in a long line of international cricketers to testify in the perjury trial of former New Zealand captain Chris Cairns. Appearing via video link, Adams reportedly told the court of a conversation between Cairns and a number of cricketers whom he was allegedly trying to recruit into his match-fixing ring. He assured them that it didn’t matter if match-fixing occurred in Indian Cricket League (ICL), because, as a non-sanctioned event, they were powerless to stop it.

Andre Adams "I can remember Chris saying even if there is match fixing, it's not a sanctioned tournament so how will they get anyone when not sanctioned


Chris Lance Cairns on a day between the 1st day of October 2010 and the 31st day of March 2012, having been lawfully sworn as a witness in a judicial proceeding, namely the trial of a libel action in the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice in England in which one Chris Lance Cairns was claimant and one Lalit Modi was defendant, wilfully made a statement material in that proceeding which he knew to be false, namely that he had never, ever cheated at cricket and nor would he ever contemplate such a thing’, reads Count 1 of the CPS charge sheet, which alleges that Cairns has committed perjury, contrary to section 1(1) of the Perjury Act

[husaberg]

Chris Cairns took the stand today.
What happened? He said no a lot.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/73662773/Chris-Cairns-trial-Former-Black-Cap-says-no-no-no-but-it-ends-in-tears

[RDJ]

I don't actually know what happened, but I assume that Chris Cairns as usual ignored the First Rule of Holes; when in a hole, stop digging.

He is not the only one to do so...

[husaberg]

I don't actually know what happened, but I assume that Chris Cairns as usual ignored the First Rule of Holes; when in a hole, stop digging.

He is not the only one to do so...

But there is the rub in this case as its a what they said vs what he said, he realistically had no option, I assume but to take the stand. Confidence appears to not be an issue with Mr Cairns.

[Banditbandit]

Only Cairns will ever know the answer - I'm happy to wait to see what the courts have to say - and even then they could be wrong ...

Amusing story tho'

[husaberg]

Only Cairns will ever know the answer - I'm happy to wait to see what the courts have to say - and even then they could be wrong ...

Amusing story tho'

How much are you willing to bet on him being not guilty...........:shifty:

[oldrider]

It will come down to evidence and law - hearsay is not evidence - there has to be an element of fact to weigh up against written law!

Did he or did he not commit perjury? - yes or no and here is the tangible proof! - that is supposed to be what the trial is all about - is it not? :confused:

[husaberg]

It will come down to evidence and law - hearsay is not evidence - there has to be an element of fact to weigh up against written law!

Did he or did he not commit perjury? - yes or no and here is the tangible proof! - that is supposed to be what the trial is all about - is it not? :confused:

Hearsay information received from other people which cannot be substantiated; rumour.
Only issue is the evidence presented is not heresay, its evidence, as it is substantiated and corroborated by witness testimony.
It comes down to, who is telling the truth, is it many people, or the one accused person.

[Doppleganger]

He is coming across as a very unpleasant person and certainly guilty of being an arrogant prick but guilty of perjury mmm probably.
Anyone with his amount of arrogance probaly feels he can get away with anything and wouldn't see a few lies as being a big deal, even under oath.

A real shame I enjoyed what he did for NZ cricket at the time and would hate to think he he fixed against us.

[Stylo]

He is coming across as a very unpleasant person and certainly guilty of being an arrogant prick but guilty of perjury mmm probably.
Anyone with his amount of arrogance probaly feels he can get away with anything and wouldn't see a few lies as being a big deal, even under oath.

A real shame I enjoyed what he did for NZ cricket at the time and would hate to think he he fixed against us.

I used to be proud of him way back then, what skills ! But I also used to love the Rolf Harris show when I was a kid.

[Banditbandit]

How much are you willing to bet on him being not guilty...........:shifty:

Nothing . I have no clue either way from listening to the evidence (both of the previous court hearing and this one ) ...

Nio idea at all ... But he does seem pretty arrogant ..

[oldrider]

Hearsay information received from other people which cannot be substantiated; rumour.
Only issue is the evidence presented is not heresay, its evidence, as it is substantiated and corroborated by witness testimony.
It comes down to, who is telling the truth, is it many people, or the one accused person.

Really comes down to: Guilty or not - the stain remains! - There appears to be enough stain to last a long long time - the silly bugger. :weird:

[Oscar]

Really comes down to: Guilty or not - the stain remains! - There appears to be enough stain to last a long long time - the silly bugger. :weird:

In your case, it's because your five working brain cells can't process critical thought.

[oldrider]

In your case, it's because your five working brain cells can't process critical thought.

You really are addicted to the keyboard warrior image aren't you! :rofl:

[Oscar]

You really are addicted to the keyboard warrior image aren't you! :rofl:

1. I haven't been on this thread for some time.

2. If you don't like it could always whinge to a moderator.

3. Pointing out the fact that you believe anything you read on the internet does not a warrior make. It makes me observant.

[oldrider]

1. I haven't been on this thread for some time.

2. If you don't like it could always whinge to a moderator.

3. Pointing out the fact that you believe anything you read on the internet does not a warrior make. It makes me observant.

Pretty weak - even for you! - Still, mildly entertaining as always. :corn:

[husaberg]

Nothing . I have no clue either way from listening to the evidence (both of the previous court hearing and this one ) ...

Nio idea at all ... But he does seem pretty arrogant ..

I think you missed the bet joke............:whistle:

[husaberg]

Really comes down to: Guilty or not - the stain remains! - There appears to be enough stain to last a long long time - the silly bugger. :weird:
I find it hard to imagine any scenario where or why all the separate people finger him, if he was innocent. Its illogical as they have more to loose and nothing to gain from the more intensive scrutiny of there own actions and life.

[oldrider]

I find it hard to imagine any scenario where or why all the separate people finger him, if he was innocent. Its illogical as they have more to loose and nothing to gain from the more intensive scrutiny of there own actions and life.

Totally agree!

[Akzle]

It will come down to evidence and law

what?! You mean this kb thread isnt going to determine the outcome?

But, but, but OPINIONS!

[oldrider]

what?! You mean this kb thread isnt going to determine the outcome?

But, but, but OPINIONS!

Well a selected group of KBr's sent a copy of this thread to the British courts but can you believe it - they didn't think it would wash! :oi-grr: Poms! :weird:

[Banditbandit]

I think you missed the bet joke............:whistle:

yeah .. I did .. sorry ...

[TheDemonLord]

I find it hard to imagine any scenario where or why all the separate people finger him, if he was innocent. Its illogical as they have more to loose and nothing to gain from the more intensive scrutiny of there own actions and life.

That is a most dangerous and slippery argument:

'He must be guilty because everyone says so'

He may or may not be guilty (I hate cricket, so don't give a flying toss) and the courts may find the evidence sufficient to prove one way or another, or may find it insufficient to prove.

Either way, I will be damned before society determines a verdict based solely on whether or not multiple people testify against the defendant, as opposed to the content of their testimony or physical evidence.

On a related note:


https://youtu.be/VNIRUigPxA8?t=1779

Feel to free to watch the entire clip - I've skipped to the bit about False Memory, which makes for interesting thought.

[husaberg]

That is a most dangerous and slippery argument:

'He must be guilty because everyone says so'

He may or may not be guilty (I hate cricket, so don't give a flying toss) and the courts may find the evidence sufficient to prove one way or another, or may find it insufficient to prove.

Either way, I will be damned before society determines a verdict based solely on whether or not multiple people testify against the defendant, as opposed to the content of their testimony or physical evidence.

On a related note:


https://youtu.be/VNIRUigPxA8?t=1779

Feel to free to watch the entire clip - I've skipped to the bit about False Memory, which makes for interesting thought.

Not really, its only a personal opinion I expressed out loud.
For the life of me I can't imagine a scenario where all the players would turn on him without reason.
I am aware of memory malleability and how it can be distorted by others accounts (I can't remember the term)
As a few have also implicated themselves and one has already received a life ban, there seems far too little to gain.
I based my opinion on the testimony of the individuals rather than just the number of them. The number of witnesses does add weight and credence to the prosecution though.
Btw Society was dammed as soon as the lawyers started profiteering from dramas such as this.


re your Video Crickey Penn has lost weight
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MG-2RAx7HJw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

But did Cairns commit perjury? - isn't that is still the vital question of the trial? - a lot of hot air he said they said I said we said doesn't necessarily mean that he did!

The end result may be quite surprising! :corn:

[TheDemonLord]

But did Cairns commit perjury? - isn't that is still the vital question of the trial? - a lot of hot air he said they said I said we said doesn't necessarily mean that he did!

The end result may be quite surprising! :corn:

I think the end result has been known well in advance:

A bunch of lawyers laughing on the way to the bank....

[mulletman]

But did Cairns commit perjury? - isn't that is still the vital question of the trial? - a lot of hot air he said they said I said we said doesn't necessarily mean that he did!

The end result may be quite surprising! :corn:

Nope and yes :wacko:

[Grumph]

Juries are notoriously unpredictable....

[PrincessBandit]

Well he walks free, but as he said his reputation has been fried and he'll never work in cricket again. Nice to see he commented that at least his parents can hold their heads up in NewZealand. They should always have been able to do that anyway but still the stain will remain on the man himself, I'm sure. Despite the verdict there'll still be many who are convinced it was the wrong decision.

[oldrider]

Clear cut by law - never clear cut by society - forever stained and nobody will ever really know the truth except for Chris Cairns - kinda like David Bain! :corn:

[TheDemonLord]

I will admit - things like this leave a conflicted opinion - in theory the verdict should expunge any doubts or implications of wrong doing in the public eye. The Court of Public opinion however is not bound by such ideals.

Was he Guilty? I have no idea, I wasn't in the trial and I don't particularly care. Will he be exonerated by the Public? Doubtful.

[husaberg]

I will admit - things like this leave a conflicted opinion - in theory the verdict should expunge any doubts or implications of wrong doing in the public eye. The Court of Public opinion however is not bound by such ideals.

Was he Guilty? I have no idea, I wasn't in the trial and I don't particularly care. Will he be exonerated by the Public? Doubtful.

they found him not guilty, sadly that doesn't mean he is innocent, shame like his dad he was a talented buggar a match winner
I guess it proves that the courts system errs on the side of caution.

[Moise]

One day, maybe, the whole story will come out. Obviously Lou Vincent wasn't a convincing witness, the former Mrs Vincent was pissed, and for whatever reason, the jury wasn't that impressed by Bazza. I guess you had to be there ...

Just one thought though - if he was a match fixer, why sue Modi for libel?

[oldrider]

One day, maybe, the whole story will come out. Obviously Lou Vincent wasn't a convincing witness, the former Mrs Vincent was pissed, and for whatever reason, the jury wasn't that impressed by Bazza. I guess you had to be there ...

Just one thought though - if he was a match fixer, why sue Modi for libel?

Maybe he just took a punt and got lucky - you have to be a risk taker to stand out there and get rock hard balls thrown at you at high speed for fun! :shifty:

[pete376403]

Just one thought though - if he was a match fixer, why sue Modi for libel?

He had to, as to do nothing would be taken as a tacit agreement of guilt.

And now he goes back to court with Modi, who has enough money to tie Cairns up in court forever.

[husaberg]

He had to, as to do nothing would be taken as a tacit agreement of guilt.

And now he goes back to court with Modi, who has enough money to tie Cairns up in court forever.

Modi had offered to settle out of court Carins refused.
From the first libel case


It emerged in court that Modi had offered Cairns £75,000 (NZ$145,000) damages last April but Cairns rejected that and requested a role as a coach in the Indian Premier League or a satellite tournament in Sri Lanka or Australia instead. Justice Bean said: "I'm satisfied Mr Cairns was justified in coming to trial to get the vindication which he has sought."


He only got
£90,000 (NZ$174,000) damages plus legal fees

[oldrider]

Without prejudice - I have to feel some real sympathy for Cairns - he has been battling away for almost 5? years and has won against some very searching charges!

If he has not done these things and "is" not guilty it would be an extremely hard place to be in and now he is going to have to face another lot FFS!

Glad it is not me or mine! - Maybe the rest of the worlds failure to recognise me as a hero has had some benefit after all! :killingme

[neels]

Sadly, the by product of presumed innocent unless proved guilty is that found not guilty does not prove innocence, and the accused will be judged accordingly.

One only needs to look at the OJ Simpson case, where he was found not guilty in criminal court, but in civil court on the balance of probabilities was found liable for causing death.

And to speculate based on the above, if indeed he is completely innocent of all suggestions it does appear that a lot of people have gone to a lot of trouble to set Cairns up at very little advantage to themselves, whereas if he is not completely innocent it would certainly explain some of his rather strange behaviour during a number of cricket matches.

Maybe he'll confess all on his deathbed and we'll finally know.

[Oscar]

Without prejudice

That will be the fucking day.

[oldrider]

That will be the fucking day.

Oops - for a minute there I thought you might have had something to say - nothing to see here - moving right along! :sleep:

[Oscar]

Oops - for a minute there I thought you might have had something to say - nothing to see here - moving right along! :sleep:

Something to say?
As opposed to your MO of posting an internet link?
You must have had no opinions of your own before the world wide web.

[RDJ]

After such a very public and publicised trial, the process is the punishment...

[Banditbandit]

1 Not my problem

2 Impact on my life; Nil

Walk away ..

[PrincessBandit]

1 Not my problem

2 Impact on my life; Nil

Walk away ..

Spray, and walk away