Pros and cons of aftermarket suspension for non-track use

[TheDemonLord]

As a complete thread hijack - can someone enlighten me as to the non-track advantages of Ohlins (apart from the +10 awesomeness points) - for my Bike - a set would be $2,500 - I'm wondering if it is worth it if all I do is commute and occasionally take pillions

[onearmedbandit]

To avoid you getting infracted and to make sure your question get answered I created a thread in the appropriate section.

I've replaced my rear shock with an ohlins unit set up for my weight and height by Robert Taylor, and had the front rebuilt by RRR Superbike (albeit with RaceTech internals) down here in ChCh. 99% of my riding is road use, and the difference was immediately noticeable. The bike is more compliant over bumps, holds its line better, installs me with more confidence and has reduced tyre wear. Money well spent in my opinion. On the track or 'at pace' riding on the road it's the best money I've spent on my bike hand(!) down.

[TheDemonLord]

To avoid you getting infracted and to make sure your question get answered I created a thread in the appropriate section.

I've replaced my rear shock with an ohlins unit set up for my weight and height by Robert Taylor, and had the front rebuilt by RRR Superbike (albeit with RaceTech internals) down here in ChCh. 99% of my riding is road use, and the difference was immediately noticeable. The bike is more compliant over bumps, holds its line better, installs me with more confidence and has reduced tyre wear. Money well spent in my opinion. On the track or 'at pace' riding on the road it's the best money I've spent on my bike hand(!) down.

Chur for that - I did think about creating a new topic, but I'm lazy....

Reduced tyre wear - Tell me more

[onearmedbandit]

Chur for that - I did think about creating a new topic, but I'm lazy....

Reduced tyre wear - Tell me more

With correctly set up suspension your tyres do less work is my understanding. Someone who knows more about it can explain in better detail why.

[Gremlin]

All suspension wears. WP and Ohlins both say 30k service intervals. How long does suspension last? There is no exact answer (or how long is a piece of string). The biggest problem however, is that it's a slow degradation in performance and often you'll never notice as you continually adjust to it. It's only when you ride something else, with newer/better suspension that you notice the difference.

Pros and cons for non-track use. This is actually a bit of a myth riders seem to have. Robert Taylor (Ohlins NZ agent) actually does far more sales for road use than track use. However, the racers are obviously more demanding and exacting of performance as they're seeking every tenth of a second. Time wise, more time spent on each unit for racing, but more road units sold overall. Make sense?

Why get Ohlins? Well, two parts, first, why buy any suspension, and second, why buy Ohlins. First, suspension on motorcycles is often where the bean counters step in. They'll spend plenty of R&D on chassis, engine, and then find some spring things. Some OEM suspension is actually terrible when it's put on the shock dyno (Robert's observations). Partly, this is also because of NZ road conditions. I'm not sure if you remember, but Chris Amon worked with Toyota at one point to release a special edition of a car, with suspension tuned to NZ conditions, so it's not just one bike, or only bikes. This is a combination of makeup of the road (the chips themselves, chip seal vs hot mix etc) and also the layout (we have a lot of bumpy winding roads). This all places more demands on suspension. If it's not setup right, it's not going to respond correctly and handling is compromised. So this leads into the comment re tyres. Suspension is only one part of the equation, you also have the tyres and bike/chassis. They all work in harmony to give you a ride. Lets say you have x suspension, and you change from stiff tyres with a higher pressure, to softer carcass tyres with a lower pressure. The tyre is going to flex a lot more under load, and with the same suspension settings, the bike will handle differently and it won't be optimal. If the tyres end up doing all the work, then you're going to have increased tyre wear. Conversely, well setup, there are less demands placed on the tyres, they're able to maintain contact with the surface in an optimal way and that results in less wear, improved handling and ultimately, a safer ride.

Remember also that OEM suspension often has limited adjustments, aftermarket suspension can have more adjustment (including taking it apart and change components within). A factory bike is setup for one small range of conditions. A certain rider weight (usually around 75kg? Could be less) and the brands idea of road conditions. If you're not in that range, then the suspension won't be correct. I'd definitely suggest anyone with say, a 600cc+ bike to get it setup correctly, well before buying stuff like exhausts. Adjustment is cheap, and gains excellent. However, adding a second person to the bike is often beyond the parameters of stock suspension and handling is definitely compromised at that point.

So, second part, why buy Ohlins. Well, you don't necessarily have to. Racetech, Sachs, Wilbers, Yacugar (? not sure if that is correct), WP, Traxxion, Nitron, Ohlins you name it, there are many out there, but a few good names. Budget v performance is the most obvious trade off. I'd suggest for commuting and relatively simple purposes you should speak to Robert about whether Nitron is available (he does both, along with others). Ohlins is a well known brand obviously, but certainly not the cheapest. Depends on your needs. One of my biggest concerns is backup. Suspension has to be serviced, which brands are properly represented in NZ? I'm not talking about a mechanic that can pull it apart and change the oil, but someone more specialised that understands it, can alter it to fit my limited explanation of any handling issue etc. Plus good quality servicing.

So as for myself. My boss provides a CB919 for work (he's a biker... cool advantage). It has an Ohlins rear shock and Racetech internals in the front, to my spec. All supplied by Robert (my boss is a good customer of his as he loves his suspension) and fitted by Botany Honda. The CB919 suspension is definitely out of the budget bin with limited adjustment. Ohlins has been in for ages, first 40-50k ish with my boss's Ohlins, not optimum, then the last 60-70k ish with my shock. Racetech fitted for 20-30k at a guess. The front end felt like it was dead under brakes, used most of it's travel and couldn't handle any bumps. Mid corner handling, it was sluggish to respond, couldn't change direction easily etc. With proper suspension, totally transformed bike and ultimately also safer as it's more composed in all conditions.

For the BMW, after 60k I realised the suspension was knackered. I was riding in 2up sports mode (stiffest it could get) with luggage, and dragging the stands mid corner. It was then that I realised it never used to do that. Good old BMW suspension can't be serviced, you buy new units... Replacing with Ohlins was cheaper than buying BMW, and because I have electronic suspension, there were very few options. Ohlins was one (uses top of the line TTX shocks) and the other options really had no presence in NZ. $5k bill for two units (front and rear), upfront cost was cheaper for Ohlins and ongoing cost is cheaper as well (service every 30k as opposed to buying new units every 60k). I've done about 50k on Ohlins now, and after 30k I took the bike back down to Robert and commented on a couple of small issues I was having (2up loading in a dipping corner would result in putting the stands on the road). We evaluate, and the rear spring is replaced for one notch stiffer. Problem fixed.

Even with BMW suspension being expensive, during the ride back to Auckland right after fitting the difference was night and day. Bike was much more compliant in corners, went where you put it, and you could change direction easily. It simply handled far better than ever before.

[TheDemonLord]

Hmmmmmm

It maybe that I re-evaluate my upgrade priorities (I had got a set of slip ons mentally budgetted for next year,)

Considering I'm 120 without gear - it might increase in my priorities.

[nzspokes]

I have Ohlins on my Hawk. Its set a bit stiff but far better than OEM. Forks on that bike are Racetech GVs. My partners bike has a Nitron which is a better unit to an Ohlins as far as I can tell. Both of these bikes go on the track from time to time. But these shocks make road riding far better. Bikes hold lines better and handle our less than perfect roads.

My Bandit has homebrew forks that are re-vavved and work 10 times better than stock. The rear shock is a Busa one. interestingly the Busa shocks can be rebuilt with RT Gold Valves so this could be an option for you. if not they are an easy sell to Bandit riders as they are a huge upgrade.

[Hitcher]

I have learned that upgrading suspension should be the first investment to be made to a bike. Stock kit is generally shit, particularly from Japanese manufacturers. If you're a biker who gets through several sets of tyres a year, then you'll probably recoup the cost of suspension mods quite quickly, in terms of (vastly) improved tyre wear. Tyres are intended to be in constant contact with the road surface. Thanks to sub-optimal OEM suspension fitments, the "constant" is more usually intermittent and that takes a toll - possibly in the order of a couple of thousand km on a sports touring tyre.

I've fitted Ohlins but this manufacturer is only one of several manufacturers of quality suspension components. And the kit is only part of the answer. It needs to be properly adjusted for load and rider preferences. A skilled fettler is essential. There is only a handful of such folks around New Zealand, each with their own idiosyncrasies.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hmmmmmm

It maybe that I re-evaluate my upgrade priorities (I had got a set of slip ons mentally budgetted for next year,)

Considering I'm 120 without gear - it might increase in my priorities.

Definitely spend money on suspension before bling.

I am another who has drunk the Ohlins/RaceTech Koolaid. The best money you can spend. Particularly if your bike has budget suspension to start with.... Honda CB919 Hornet for example.

I also ride on the road with occasional trackday use not a racer.

[tigertim20]

Ohlins, properly set up will perform better across the board than your stock stuff. it will make the bike handle better and respond better.

Given that you will encounter a greater variety of conditions and surfaces in your daily road riding than you would on the track - there is a fair argument that the ohlins provides MORE benefit to a road rider, than it does a track rider.

You might do 200km riding on a sunday, and encounter 200km worth of cobinations of different types of seal, road camber, conditions, seal repairs etc, and

a track rider might do 200km as well, but only cover the same 4km over and over - the road rider will encounter a greater diversity of conditions.

If I could afford full ohlins, Id do it in a heart beat

[F5 Dave]

Why would you own a bus and only commute or take a pillion?
If you ride for fun it will make it better to upgrade. Esp if the suspension is say 20k plus (worn jap). Or you have a big powerful bike. Or you are smaller or larger than what they had in mind.

The last on in particular would benefit from correct selection of spring. This will help your bike not blow through the stroke and drag its arse like a chopper.

It can add up, but some fork springs and new oil with a decent shock with correct spring will do wonders, then add front valving mods if required.

Another vote for using KSS. Roberts knowledge and willingness to swap springs if they aren't right for you is worth it. Ohlins sometimes get a racing only rep from factory specials that are set up way too hard. Ducati specs vs what Ohlins will recommend are apparently poles apart.

[nzspokes]

- there is a fair argument that the ohlins provides MORE benefit to a road rider, than it does a track rider.



Agree to this 100%.

[F5 Dave]

Not to a racer. A racer will sell his sister for another 2 tenths off his lap times.

But road riders are missing out often.

Heck the wiffs corolla could do with an upgrade. . . . maybe not Ohlins.

[AllanB]

Ohlins, Nitron both available from a excellent NZ agent.


Ohlined the front fork springs then rear shock on my Cb900 Hornet. I'd added lots of goodness to that bike, best real world road riding improvement was 1. ditch the stock tyres .. (did not last long anyway) 2. Suspension. 3. pipes - because I enjoy the sound (and can justify it by saying I saved lots of weight ..... but it was really all about the noise).

What happens when sprung well? Initial ride felt like someone had swapped the frame - front and rear suddenly felt 'joined' properly. Bump absorption improved significantly. Corner speeds increased as a consequence, interestingly pre upgrade the Hornet did not like trail braking into a corner - it would stand up, after it did not have that reaction.

Is it worth it? Depends on your bike, budget, etc etc it was for me on that ride for the years I kept it. New one has good stuff on it from factory - bet it can be improved though ......

[tigertim20]

Not to a racer. A racer will sell his sister for another 2 tenths off his lap times.

.

provide pictures of said sister and I'll see how I can help:drool:

[F5 Dave]

I've just given up. Well for the time being at least.

[TheDemonLord]

Why would you own a bus and only commute or take a pillion?
If you ride for fun it will make it better to upgrade. Esp if the suspension is say 20k plus (worn jap). Or you have a big powerful bike. Or you are smaller or larger than what they had in mind.

It's been my Dream bike since I was in my early Teens - now I ride my Dream Bike - it does everything I ask of it and has plenty more to offer.

Currently its at 52,000 Km, and I am definitely weight wise larger than what they had in mind (by almost a factor of 2...)


Guess I will have to start saving for a set - but if what you say is true about tyre wear then it should be a sensible investment.

Another question - I keep hearing about KSS and Mr Taylor (and nothing but good things mind) - so if I was to get the suspension setup for me for my day-to-day ride, would he also be able to advise how and what to adjust on the suspension when going 2 up (assuming I gave him the weight of said pillion)?

[nzspokes]

Another question - I keep hearing about KSS and Mr Taylor (and nothing but good things mind) - so if I was to get the suspension setup for me for my day-to-day ride, would he also be able to advise how and what to adjust on the suspension when going 2 up (assuming I gave him the weight of said pillion)?

Yes. That will come down to added preload and comp. Both will be external adjusters.But it will always be a compromise.

[Drew]

Nearly all big name suspension is better than stock. Shop around, but buy local from a licensed agent. That way you get it speced for you, and good after sales service.

On a Busa, I'd be having my standard gear rebuilt with decent internals. The shock body will accept any number of decent piston/valve combinations at a fraction the cost of full replacement. And with forks it's accepted as the only way to go unless you wanna spend $10k.

Bryce does Ktech in my neck of the woods, and the bulk of his work consists of upgrading OEM stuff.

[SVboy]

Nearly all big name suspension is better than stock. Shop around, but buy local from a licensed agent. That way you get it speced for you, and good after sales service.

On a Busa, I'd be having my standard gear rebuilt with decent internals. The shock body will accept any number of decent piston/valve combinations at a fraction the cost of full replacement. And with forks it's accepted as the only way to go unless you wanna spend $10k.

Bryce does Ktech in my neck of the woods, and the bulk of his work consists of upgrading OEM stuff.

This is good advice. Suzuki GSXR shocks seem a sound design and respond well to revalving and springing for weight, same with the front, and at a decidedly affordable price. I have had RT do this to two bikes so far-best $$ spent. Ring Robert and discuss your options.