Picking a trackday group

[vinducati]

I have been doing trackdays for about 5 years and lately have found that I am finding some of the riding a dangerous.
The organisers are generally good but at times I feel they let things go so as not to upset a customer.
I have been going out in Medium and sometimes Fast.
In fast, although I ride very clean consistent lines, I find I feel a bit pressured particularly if it is close to a race day and some club racers treat it as a race practice group, which is a bit of a shame for those of us at a public trackday.
In medium I find the riding very dangerous, lot of aggression and a mix of experiance makes it dodgy, this group has the highest incident rate.
So, oddly I think I am going to go out in Slow, although this is a blow to my fragile ego, I did a session last time, had plenty of space, was considerate to the other riders and had a better time.
Wondered if anyone else has had a similar experiance?
Who do you think runs the best trackdays ?
Cheers

[tigertim20]

if you feel pressured then the group is probably too fast for you.

if you feel the riding in a group is genuinely dangerous, say something, or pack up and go home

[vinducati]

if you feel pressured then the group is probably too fast for you.

if you feel the riding in a group is genuinely dangerous, say something, or pack up and go home

Thanks, I do mention it if I think the passing rules are not being followed.

[sil3nt]

Novice group is great fun.

I have dropped down from medium slow a few times as the riding in that group can be unpredictable. Have made a few complaints before but they do not give a shit.

Would like to see a system where you register you and your bike and they keep track of your riding / lap times and assign you to a group. Would mean a lot of work for them but should be safer for everyone.

Too many people straight line heroes on 600cc+ machines that just don't know how to corner and would be better off in slower groups learning how to corner properly.

Nothing worse than someone blasting past you on a straight then pulling in front and hitting the brakes while your still accelerating and not even thinking of braking for another couple of hundred metres. I get this quite often when I pass people through turns 3/4/5 at HD but they out power me on the run to 6 pull in front and brake well before the 200 metre mark.

Maybe I should just learn to ride faster and move up into the faster groups ;)

[nodrog]

________________

[Gremlin]

It does depend on who is organising the day. Most I know of have 4 sessions (depending on demand of course), effectively novice, medium, fast, race (with 4 usually not carrying insurance). Speeds of each group will of course vary depending on who attends the day, and behaviour controlled by those observing.

As you say, you can have heros riding badly, and you can also have riders going faster than you. If however, you go in slow, then are you travelling at a pace commensurate with the other riders? What if several people have that idea? What about the safety of those novice riders. As a flag marshall, my main concern is speed differential amongst the riders, and at AMCC ART days we do report riders that are too quick or too slow for a group, to try and keep people roughly at the same pace.

For your issue, I'd suggest fast, if you are roughly at that pace. There will always be faster riders. Hold your line, don't do anything unpredictable and let them pass you. I've found fast to be reasonably well behaved?

[Mental Trousers]

I have been going out in Medium and sometimes Fast.
In fast, although I ride very clean consistent lines, I find I feel a bit pressured particularly if it is close to a race day and some club racers treat it as a race practice group, which is a bit of a shame for those of us at a public trackday.

If you're quick enough to ride in fast then ride in fast cos you're far too quick to be in the slow group. Pressure isn't coming from the others in the group, it's from you. Nobody expects you to be circulating at the same pace as the racers/really fast track day guys.

At times there's more racers in the fast group than normal and that can be off putting because there's an unusually high number of passes in a session, many of which can be a bit closer than you'd usually see. Your 2 options are to talk to the organisers or drop down a group. Days like that the Medium group is usually more settled than normal cos it's full of guys who aren't racers and don't want to be in with the racers.

Also, carry a camera on your bike so you can show the organisers is someone is being an arsehole.

[tigertim20]

To be safest you really need to hire the track so you have it all to yourself. You are correct that being under pressure to keep up is dangerous and that is often demonstrated by the number of riders who crash on group rides on the road. There were posters on here a few days ago that said riding on the track was safer than the road due to no trees/ walls ditches to hit etc but all those who made that claim appeared to not be
aware riders can actually hit other riders due to having far less stopping distance in the interest of trying to be the winner.

and youve done how many trackdays and competed in how many race events?



One thing you can do at trackdays, is tae stock of who the faster people are i your group - there will be a spread of speed withing each group anyway.

I often see people rush to the pit gate when its almost time for their session, and others dawdle up at the last minute. You end up with 2 super fast dudes, 3 super slow dudes and four average pace riders being the first ten out of the gate.
That can make for a hairy couple of first laps.

Think about your pace when lining up. i.e. if you are a moderately fast rider for that group, try to get roughly in the middle of the queue waiting to go out. It isnt fool proof but it does help

[nodrog]

....

Also, carry a camera on your bike so you can show the organisers is someone is being an arsehole.

fuck that, google trackday crashes on you tube.

cameras cause accidents obviously.

[jasonu]

Also, carry a camera on your bike so you can show the organisers is someone is being an arsehole.

and be sure to post anything interesting on KB.

[WNJ]

Personally I have never done any track days and never felt like doing them, but couldn't wait til next speedway session when I could jump on the chair and enjoyed every second of that :headbang:

[vinducati]

Thanks fo the feedback. I am going to go out in the slow group and practice some of the lessons form the Californian Superbike School, been trying to go fast and have fallen into old habits.
Turning in to soon, incorrect body position etc.
Then when I feel like it will move up.
I expect the organisers to move me if there are issues with my riding.
Although, I always treat all riders on the track with me with respect.
Thanks again, see some of you at the track.
Cheers

[Asher]

Ive done my fair share of trackdays and the intermediate groups are by far the most dangerous groups to be in and the advanced/experienced group marginally better.
The intermediate groups are normally by far the biggest group and has the biggest spread of bikes and rider experience which leads to large speed differentials and the most amount of problems.
The advanced/experienced group is normally 50% good, safe and fast riders so should be in there and 50% people who 'think' they are fast, want an ego boost and are generally too aggressive for track days. A few times I've had to do pit lane ride throughs to get away from large groups of riders trying to go 3-4 wide through corners making it impossible to get past them safely.

I find testing days to be the best time to go out on track. Ruapuna has recently changed the rules but you used to be able to go out every Tuesday and Friday for a blast, they split the bikes/cars up so you get half an hour on, half an hour off. If you have spent much time on the track half an hour on track is exhausting. The good thing about testing days is its normally the just the race guys out there is much less people on track and while their speed might be a fair bit faster than yours they know what they are doing so can get past you quickly and safely.

[jellywrestler]

i can remember at the early central districts track days at manfeild having to send a ute around to pick up some of the flaggies who were so drunk they couldn't get into a car, or people wouldn't let them in theirs as they were too much of a risk...

[rustys]

Agree with Asher, test days are far better, and lots more track time.

[sharp2183]

Hey guys, I work with the organisers at the Hamptons events and while I can't speak of the other organisers around the country, we do our best to identify and talk to those who are riding dangerously, erratically, or are just too fast or too slow for the group they are in.

Sometimes it is hard to pinpoint who a rider is (I.e. A complaint saying 'a blue gsxr something passed too close' helps but isn't conclusive) and other times we get two sides to the story. I have personally been the subject on a complaint where I was accused of passing too close (not while marshalling!) but on review of the footage it was a clean pass with two metres space given and a low speed differnential - we couldn't determine why the rider was so freaked out. Just an example, but it shows the need to be objective and ensure that no ones day is ruined if we can avoid it.

The best thing to do in all cases is to come and see one of the marshalls (find us wearing yellow vests) or the guys in course control. We can go an observe and take action from there. We WILL review the riding in that group and take action if required. The days are intended to be safe and fun for all.

My advice to you would be to either a) ride in the fast group where passes are typically clean and most know each other so there is a fair amount of respect, or b) ride in a slower group.

However, do consider that in a slow group it will be YOU who is the one exceeding the capabilities of most. If you look to be carving up don't be shocked if you are asked to move. Novice riders require lots of space and respect. If you can ride fast group you are a fairly fast rider and by definition will not quite fit with the novices.

All in all have fun and talk to us if you have concerns. That's why we are there. If in doubt you can come talk to me or any of the guys. I'll be in a yellow vest on a white RSV4 or green ZX10. Name is Dave.

[vinducati]

Hey guys, I work with the organisers at the Hamptons events and while I can't speak of the other organisers around the country, we do our best to identify and talk to those who are riding dangerously, erratically, or are just too fast or too slow for the group they are in.

Sometimes it is hard to pinpoint who a rider is (I.e. A complaint saying 'a blue gsxr something passed too close' helps but isn't conclusive) and other times we get two sides to the story. I have personally been the subject on a complaint where I was accused of passing too close (not while marshalling!) but on review of the footage it was a clean pass with two metres space given and a low speed differnential - we couldn't determine why the rider was so freaked out. Just an example, but it shows the need to be objective and ensure that no ones day is ruined if we can avoid it.

The best thing to do in all cases is to come and see one of the marshalls (find us wearing yellow vests) or the guys in course control. We can go an observe and take action from there. We WILL review the riding in that group and take action if required. The days are intended to be safe and fun for all.

My advice to you would be to either a) ride in the fast group where passes are typically clean and most know each other so there is a fair amount of respect, or b) ride in a slower group.

However, do consider that in a slow group it will be YOU who is the one exceeding the capabilities of most. If you look to be carving up don't be shocked if you are asked to move. Novice riders require lots of space and respect. If you can ride fast group you are a fairly fast rider and by definition will not quite fit with the novices.

All in all have fun and talk to us if you have concerns. That's why we are there. If in doubt you can come talk to me or any of the guys. I'll be in a yellow vest on a white RSV4 or green ZX10. Name is Dave.

I lap around 1'22", not really quick I know, based in that what do you recommend? I know each day varies a lot depending on riders who show up, mind you good riders like Avalon etc just got round.

[nodrog]

I lap around 1'22", not really quick I know, based in that what do you recommend? .......

turning the throttle some more.

[vinducati]

I lap around 1'22", not really quick I know, based in that what do you recommend? I know each day varies a lot depending on riders who show up, mind you good riders like Avalon etc just got round.

Would you consider that sort of pace to slow for the fast group at Playday.
In the medium at that pace I come across blocks of slower riders.

[sharp2183]

Would you consider that sort of pace to slow for the fast group at Playday.
In the medium at that pace I come across blocks of slower riders.

It's not always easy to base it on lap times I admit. There's often a big jump going from Medium fast up to fast, where times can be quite fast on any given day.

If you are wanting to go faster and you are finding that riders in medium fast are too slow, then on that day then a step up to fast is warranted. Remember it's not the lap times you are doing but the way you are riding that makes the difference. The fast guys will just go straight around you and be on their way of you hold a nice consistent line.

At 22s I would start in medium fast next time out and play it as you see fit. Come and talk to me in the first session and I can come out with you and have a looksee. If traffic is good then no problems, if it's too slow you can go up and practice in a group where you will be slow, not fast. More to learn there in my opinion.

[Mental Trousers]

I lap around 1'22", not really quick I know, based in that what do you recommend?

Stick to the fast group.

[vinducati]

They did say they felt under pressure to keep up though if you read post 1. Being under pressure to keep up can be deadly on or off the track.


Thanks for all the advice.
I will stay with Med Fast for now as a start point and decide depending on the riders there on the day.
It is not that I feel pressure to ride quicker than I can.
More I don't want to muck up other riders enjoyment of the day.
But as you say, the riders can let the track day staff know if there is a problem and the good riders pass clean and easy.
The track day staff should be able to ascertain whether someone is in the wrong group.
And yes Dave I will come and see you at the next Play Day event I attend.

[sharp2183]

Thanks for all the advice.
I will stay with Med Fast for now as a start point and decide depending on the riders there on the day.
It is not that I feel pressure to ride quicker than I can.
More I don't want to muck up other riders enjoyment of the day.
But as you say, the riders can let the track day staff know if there is a problem and the good riders pass clean and easy.
The track day staff should be able to ascertain whether someone is in the wrong group.
And yes Dave I will come and see you at the next Play Day event I attend.

Cool, good result. Catch you at the next one.

[Erelyes]

Think about your pace when lining up. i.e. if you are a moderately fast rider for that group, try to get roughly in the middle of the queue waiting to go out. It isnt fool proof but it does help

Yep. You could drop down to Med and be first out the gate like Lorenzo. But to be honest I have found riding around other riders of comparable skill to be plenty of fun.


fuck that, google trackday crashes on you tube.

cameras cause accidents obviously.

Lies. I crashed and I totally would have been sweet if I had a camera on.


You can get educated on how dangerous it is by just watching but maybe

You can, in the same way watching a ton of porn makes you a pro at sex.


They did say they felt under pressure to keep up though if you read post 1. Being under pressure to keep up can be deadly on or off the track.

And dropping down a group would be avoiding the problem rather than addressing it.


The track day staff should be able to ascertain whether someone is in the wrong group.

Good stuff. I think it's hard for organisers sometimes, I imagine it only takes a couple of assholes with delusions of grandeur to make you sick of approaching people and asking them to move down. And I guess more people approach them asking to be moved up, than to be moved down.

[Moi]

... You can, in the same way watching a ton of porn makes you a pro at sex...

Where's your evidence? :eek5:

[Erelyes]

Where's your evidence? :eek5:

*Sploosh* 10char

[Moi]

*Sploosh* 10char

I think we'd better let this thread get back on track...

[HenryDorsetCase]

You can get educated on how dangerous it is by just watching but maybe most that participate have a she'll be right it will never happen to me attitude. After all in the other thread a few days back other posters were only able to identify the absence of off track hazards with no mention that they themselves could become hazards to others with out even leaving the track.

Look, I'm sorry but that is bullshit. Most trackdays are very well organised, cater for a range of abilities and most of the time have people who are there to help you, if you only ask.

I did a trackday on Monday as it happens. Trevor Pierce Yamaha organised it. I for some reason got put in the slow group - which actually had some value because one of the corner complexes I have issues with was broken down for us and used as a demo. Very instructive. I was much better through there the rest of the day because of it.

They are running another in February. Come along, bring your bike. I will share a pitbox with you and help you prep your bike and generally assist where I can. You can learn some stuff and have a good time doing it. Genuine offer.

I got bored after the second session on Monday because it was a no passing group so I went to another group. As it happens I got bitched out (by a guy sharing my pitbox...) because I passed him. And I'm like "Its a trackday - I rode round the outside of you there was nothing dangerous." I actually prefer the fast group because at least the people in it are decent riders... I remember going down the back straight at Ruapuna a year or so back thinking "Fuck yeah, this is fast" and being passed at the entry to T1 by Ryan Hampton on the inside and Dennis Charlett on the outside... going about 60kph quicker than I was... they subsequently fucked off not to be seen again. I may have even been lapped in a ten lap session :(

I was schooled on Monday by a 14 year old on a 300cc Yamaha R3... I am by no means quick.

[Aeromo]

Thanks fo the feedback. I am going to go out in the slow group and practice some of the lessons form the Californian Superbike School, been trying to go fast and have fallen into old habits.
Turning in to soon, incorrect body position etc.
Then when I feel like it will move up.
I expect the organisers to move me if there are issues with my riding.
Although, I always treat all riders on the track with me with respect.
Thanks again, see some of you at the track.
Cheers

Come abit further south to a Taupo MotoTT day. Heaps different to the Playday HD day, its a good experience.
It does get abit annoying going out on the Hyosak GT250 at HD in Med/Slow, 600-1000cc bike come flying past and slow me down into turn 1, than again into T2, than I can pass them pack on the brakes into T4. At HD I observed a lot of guys on bigger bikes that were fast on corners were in Med/Slow group, and new times on big bikes that are slow in corners go into Med/Fast Group.

Taupo I find is not a stop go track and I think it is abit bigger to, you don't get tangled up with other riders as much

[discotex]

It's not always easy to base it on lap times I admit. There's often a big jump going from Medium fast up to fast, where times can be quite fast on any given day.

If you are wanting to go faster and you are finding that riders in medium fast are too slow, then on that day then a step up to fast is warranted. Remember it's not the lap times you are doing but the way you are riding that makes the difference. The fast guys will just go straight around you and be on their way of you hold a nice consistent line.

At 22s I would start in medium fast next time out and play it as you see fit. Come and talk to me in the first session and I can come out with you and have a looksee. If traffic is good then no problems, if it's too slow you can go up and practice in a group where you will be slow, not fast. More to learn there in my opinion.

I'm in a similar spot with Med-Slow to Med-Fast. Not sure if I should go up or not. What would you say is a good indicator that someone should go into Med-Fast?

[sharp2183]

I'm in a similar spot with Med-Slow to Med-Fast. Not sure if I should go up or not. What would you say is a good indicator that someone should go into Med-Fast?

Again, it's subjective. From outside looking in we would look at the speed difference (if you are much faster). But it's more about whether you feel you are well within your capabilities and wish to move to a group where the average speeds are higher.

Are you never being passed currently? Are you able to pass easily and comfortably and wish there were fewer bikes in the way? Are you looking to improve as your number one priority, or are you just out having a blast?

It's not really easy as there is no rule, but generally if you are lapping faster than most others, it might be time to test the waters up a group. You can always change back!

[haydes55]

Come abit further south to a Taupo MotoTT day. Heaps different to the Playday HD day, its a good experience.
It does get abit annoying going out on the Hyosak GT250 at HD in Med/Slow, 600-1000cc bike come flying past and slow me down into turn 1, than again into T2, than I can pass them pack on the brakes into T4. At HD I observed a lot of guys on bigger bikes that were fast on corners were in Med/Slow group, and new times on big bikes that are slow in corners go into Med/Fast Group.

Taupo I find is not a stop go track and I think it is abit bigger to, you don't get tangled up with other riders as much
T'was me...

First time on a track, track day at hampton downs, been on my full licence for a month, owned a Z1000 for a couple weeks, bought a ticket for medium group. I thought slow group was for 250s etc. Plus I'm not a slug on the road.

First session, taking it easy, overtaken by about 15 bikes per lap. Second session much better... probably letting 5 bikes past per lap.

Coming into the hair pin a hyosung comes sweeping atound the outside of me. Shit just got real. I got on the gas harder than ever before, power stood for a second or 2, screamed past the bastard and pushed much harder, I heard him right behind me into turn 3 then not again.

Improved my track times... In hindsight I would have taken that day differently, especially after seeing a hayabusa in the slow group.

O well live and learn, no near misses.

[discotex]

Again, it's subjective. From outside looking in we would look at the speed difference (if you are much faster). But it's more about whether you feel you are well within your capabilities and wish to move to a group where the average speeds are higher.

Are you never being passed currently? Are you able to pass easily and comfortably and wish there were fewer bikes in the way? Are you looking to improve as your number one priority, or are you just out having a blast?

It's not really easy as there is no rule, but generally if you are lapping faster than most others, it might be time to test the waters up a group. You can always change back!

I don't get passed that often once I've warmed up my tyres. Usually it's guys way faster that probably ended up in Med-Slow because the other groups were full, as they are usually on dedicated track bikes. Last time out before the 6 hour I caught a fair number of riders. Gut feel is that I was in the top 1/3 of the group. Better if those faster guys were up in Med-Fast.

Improving is my #1 priority. I plan to get in a day every month this summer. I thought Med-Fast might help to give me more "mental towing" but on the other hand I don't really want to find I'm *way* slower. I guess like you say I should just suck it up and try it. Might talk to Tony about changing my booking for the 20th depending on how tomorrow arvo goes.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Thanks for the invite but its just too risky and expensive if I drop my bike for my liking. Poster 1 needs to perhaps attend your trackday as some are safer than others. Going fast on skis is my thing.

OK, if you change your mind the next one is in February.

On Monday there were around 60 riders I guess (no idea really) and two fallers. No injuries except to pride and a broken footpeg.

Track riding is a LOT less dangerous than riding on Her Majestey's highways. Lot more fun too because you can go 223 kph and not get a speeding ticket.

[nodrog]

.... Lot more fun too because you can go 223 kph and not get a speeding ticket.

you can do that on the road.

[Mental Trousers]

Stick to the fast group.

They did say they felt under pressure to keep up though if you read post 1. Being under pressure to keep up can be deadly on or off the track.


If you're quick enough to ride in fast then ride in fast cos you're far too quick to be in the slow group. Pressure isn't coming from the others in the group, it's from you. Nobody expects you to be circulating at the same pace as the racers/really fast track day guys.


. .

[nodrog]

....Skiing is far safer.....

Cleary its not as safe a F1.

[EJK]

Thanks for the invite but its just too risky and expensive if I drop my bike for my liking. Poster 1 needs to perhaps attend your trackday as some are safer than others. Going fast on skis is my thing.

Go hard or go home pussy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

you can do that on the road.

Surely not??!?!

that would be unlawful. I've never exceeded 100 kph on the open road because a policeman* told me my head would explode if I did.

*or a TV ad... same thing right?

[Marmoot]

T'was me...

First time on a track, track day at hampton downs, been on my full licence for a month, owned a Z1000 for a couple weeks, bought a ticket for medium group. I thought slow group was for 250s etc. Plus I'm not a slug on the road.

First session, taking it easy, overtaken by about 15 bikes per lap. Second session much better... probably letting 5 bikes past per lap.

Coming into the hair pin a hyosung comes sweeping atound the outside of me. Shit just got real. I got on the gas harder than ever before, power stood for a second or 2, screamed past the bastard and pushed much harder, I heard him right behind me into turn 3 then not again.

Improved my track times... In hindsight I would have taken that day differently, especially after seeing a hayabusa in the slow group.

O well live and learn, no near misses.

This post illustrates exactly why medium groups are dangerous.

[haydes55]

This post illustrates exactly why medium groups are dangerous.
For the record I wasn't riding dangerously, I simply rode at 80% instead of comfortable cruising. I held constant lines and never came within 2m of another bike.

[vinducati]

This is quite a good website.


biketrackdayshub.com

[DamianW]

Last Thursday evening at HD there was a handful of bins in medium group and one in the slow group. No bins in fast group iirc.

Compare that to Cali superbike school two weeks ago with only one low speed bin throughout the two days.

This indicates that average track day riders would get more out of their laps if they focused more on improving their techniques and less on out-braking the next guy. This approach would place less emphasis for most riders on which group to join :dunno

[discotex]

Last Thursday evening at HD there was a handful of bins in medium group and one in the slow group. No bins in fast group iirc.

Compare that to Cali superbike school two weeks ago with only one low speed bin throughout the two days.

This indicates that average track day riders would get more out of their laps if they focused more on improving their techniques and less on out-braking the next guy. This approach would place less emphasis for most riders on which group to join :dunno

Had a lot of fun in the Medium group on Thursday night. With only three groups I'm sure Medium was like a combined Medium-Slow and Medium-Fast. Never felt like I shouldn't be there so will probably switch it up to Medium-Fast in future.

Doing CSS L1 & L2 a while back definitely made me a better rider - 10/10 would recommend. I slowed down a lot, stopped charging corners and started drilling myself to ride properly and build a solid foundation. This season it's starting to come together and I'm building my pace every time out rather than being all over the place. I'm thinking I'll have to do L3 & L4 over at Phillip Island one day :Punk:

[The End]

Last Thursday evening at HD there was a handful of bins in medium group and one in the slow group. No bins in fast group iirc.

Compare that to Cali superbike school two weeks ago with only one low speed bin throughout the two days.

This indicates that average track day riders would get more out of their laps if they focused more on improving their techniques and less on out-braking the next guy. This approach would place less emphasis for most riders on which group to join :dunno

Was hoping to get along to that track day but left getting a ticket too late (waited to see what the weather was doing) and the only group left was fast.

Bugger to hear about the bins..

How structured are non-ART days? I've only ever been to Hampton Downs during a ART run day and it was very structured/I didn't notice any nonsense riding. Hoping to get along to the next ART day

[DamianW]

Was hoping to get along to that track day but left getting a ticket too late (waited to see what the weather was doing) and the only group left was fast.

Bugger to hear about the bins..

How structured are non-ART days? I've only ever been to Hampton Downs during a ART run day and it was very structured/I didn't notice any nonsense riding. Hoping to get along to the next ART day

I think the track days at HD are run very well indeed. Typical full track day there starts with sign-on from 7.30am and safety briefing at 9am. New riders to the track are also taken to one side and given a track overview followed by a few orientation laps following a control rider who shows them cornering lines. The first group then heads out about 9.30 with it all wrapped by 4.30pm.

Usually eight x 14 min sessions for each of the four groups. I have been there on the odd day when only three groups run longer 20 min sessions due to limited numbers.

Always lots of friendly banter in pit lane and garages along with offers of tools etc if you need to tweak anything.

I'm heading back there on Sunday 20th December (there's an ART day on 19th but I'm skipping that one as there wasn't as much track time on the last outing).

[The End]

I think the track days at HD are run very well indeed. Typical full track day there starts with sign-on from 7.30am and safety briefing at 9am. New riders to the track are also taken to one side and given a track overview followed by a few orientation laps following a control rider who shows them cornering lines. The first group then heads out about 9.30 with it all wrapped by 4.30pm.

Usually eight x 14 min sessions for each of the four groups. I have been there on the odd day when only three groups run longer 20 min sessions due to limited numbers.

Always lots of friendly banter in pit lane and garages along with offers of tools etc if you need to tweak anything.

I'm heading back there on Sunday 20th December (there's an ART day on 19th but I'm skipping that one as there wasn't as much track time on the last outing).

8 x 14 minute sessions per group for the Playday on track days (non ART)?

I think the last ART day I went to was 5 sessions, although I left after number 4.

Bang for buck, looks like a Playday = more track time for your money, provided one does not want the added value ART provides (training and lunch :laugh:)

My only hesitation with going to a Non-ART day has been whether or not it would be chaos out on the track in the medium group where I would be in.

[DamianW]

8 x 14 minute sessions per group for the Playday on track days (non ART)?

I think the last ART day I went to was 5 sessions, although I left after number 4.

Bang for buck, looks like a Playday = more track time for your money, provided one does not want the added value ART provides (training and lunch :laugh:)

My only hesitation with going to a Non-ART day has been whether or not it would be chaos out on the track in the medium group where I would be in.

You'll be fine in medium mate. Last Thursday between 4.30pm - 7.30pm we did 4 x 14 min sessions per group and it ran smoothly with 30 min breaks for a leak and drink in between. I think a very warm track with lots of grip helped. I find on full days that most bins are in the first and last sessions, but that's true anywhere really. HD T3 leaned over on cold left edges seems to catch a few people out.

[discotex]

8 x 14 minute sessions per group for the Playday on track days (non ART)?

I think the last ART day I went to was 5 sessions, although I left after number 4.

Bang for buck, looks like a Playday = more track time for your money, provided one does not want the added value ART provides (training and lunch :laugh:)

My only hesitation with going to a Non-ART day has been whether or not it would be chaos out on the track in the medium group where I would be in.

I think they meant 6x.. I've done 2 daytime Playday days at HD and 1 twilight one in the last couple of months. For day ones it's always been 6x sessions for 4 groups (Novice, Medium-Slow, Medium-Fast, Fast). They squeeze in 4x sessions for 3 groups on the twilight days (Novice, Medium, Fast).

I've been in Medium-Slow for both days and Medium at the twilight day on Thursday. It's not chaos out on track at all. As with everything you'll always get the odd random dude but by and large everyone gets it's a fun day not a race day.


You'll be fine in medium mate. Last Thursday between 4.30pm - 7.30pm we did 4 x 14 min sessions per group and it ran smoothly with 30 min breaks for a leak and drink in between. I think a very warm track with lots of grip helped. I find on full days that most bins are in the first and last sessions, but that's true anywhere really. HD T3 leaned over on cold left edges seems to catch a few people out.

Yeah it's a long way between the lefts at T5 and T3 so that side of the tyre stays colder. I do two full laps (excluding the out lap) before I really hit the gas on T3 and T5 to make sure my tyres are proper warm - especially first session. All the right handers I'm good to go after the out lap and one full lap.

[DamianW]

Yeah sorry, it's normally 6 sessions on a full day.

[Ruahine]

My only hesitation with going to a Non-ART day has been whether or not it would be chaos out on the track in the medium group where I would be in.

I've been to a number of track days at Hampton, ART, Playday on Track and CSS. I have also been to a MotoTT day at Taupo. CSS is a proper training day and not a fair comparison to the others in terms of price.

Out of ART and Playday the ART days are the best run with lots of marshals both on track and at flag points. They also run scrutineering of bikes and gear. There also seems to be a wider range of bikes in the lower groups and the attitude is more on learning so there are fewer heroes. I would say that the teaching sessions are a bit ad hoc and I got more out of them by concentrating on my own drills and chatting to the instructors one-on-one.

The Playday on track days are run to a lower level, fewer marshals and no scutineering of the bikes or gear. However by and large people are well behaved, it is certainly not chaos on track. If you enjoyed ART then I wouldn't hesitate going to one of their days. As Damian pointed out the first and last sessions are often the worst. The twilight sessions are great value at $80 for 4 sessions.

The one MotoTT day I have been to was awesome. Much much better than the Playday on Track ones. They give away lots of prizes and have plenty of marshals both off and on track. Will be going back to some more at Taupo next year.

[FROSTY]

vinducati- In my opinion The issue you have is a matter of perception.
Racing lines tend to be different from fast lines and what a racer would concider acres of space a road rider will concider a close call.
You will notice it particularly if you have recently done a superbike school where you were taught the "correct" line around a track.
Youll have a racer come screaming past on totally the "wrong" line turn point and squirt away into the distance as you are getting all perfectly lined up for the corner. yep it can be unnerving but its rarely genuinely dangerous.
My honest advice to you is to put your ear plugs in Your "blinkers" on and just do your own thing in the fast group.
As long as you stay predictable you won't be a danger to the racers and they won't be an actual danger to you.
Incidently --I like going in the slow group at times when I'm trying to figure out a corner/series of corners. It gives me time and space to focus.

[vinducati]

vinducati- In my opinion The issue you have is a matter of perception.
Racing lines tend to be different from fast lines and what a racer would concider acres of space a road rider will concider a close call.
You will notice it particularly if you have recently done a superbike school where you were taught the "correct" line around a track.
Youll have a racer come screaming past on totally the "wrong" line turn point and squirt away into the distance as you are getting all perfectly lined up for the corner. yep it can be unnerving but its rarely genuinely dangerous.
My honest advice to you is to put your ear plugs in Your "blinkers" on and just do your own thing in the fast group.
As long as you stay predictable you won't be a danger to the racers and they won't be an actual danger to you.
Incidently --I like going in the slow group at times when I'm trying to figure out a corner/series of corners. It gives me time and space to focus.

Thanks, yes I have done Levels 1, 2 and 3 of the CSS and it was great.
I am happy to say I am very consistent thanks to the CSS.
The racers are not normally an issue as you say.
And yes, I have to tune out the odd idiot and focus on my riding.

I would like to see scrutineering done at Play-days and Marshall at all turns.
The ART days are very good, I think more having marshals at all turns is important.
The will head down to Taupo this summer and do a Moto TT day.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[Grubber]

vinducati- In my opinion The issue you have is a matter of perception.
Racing lines tend to be different from fast lines and what a racer would concider acres of space a road rider will concider a close call.
You will notice it particularly if you have recently done a superbike school where you were taught the "correct" line around a track.
Youll have a racer come screaming past on totally the "wrong" line turn point and squirt away into the distance as you are getting all perfectly lined up for the corner. yep it can be unnerving but its rarely genuinely dangerous.
My honest advice to you is to put your ear plugs in Your "blinkers" on and just do your own thing in the fast group.
As long as you stay predictable you won't be a danger to the racers and they won't be an actual danger to you.
Incidently --I like going in the slow group at times when I'm trying to figure out a corner/series of corners. It gives me time and space to focus.

this is very good advise vinducati.
I have done the CSS and raced so i firmly believe the misconception of what is close could be a fair call.
I have been rounded up by young players who were somewhat upset that i passed them too close whereas i was in actual fact some 4 metres away. The speed for a new comer to be passed at is sometimes sometimes they are not used to and it does get a little un nerving. Relax and do your own thing for sure and no one will attempt to run into you. Well not on purpose of coarse.
I too have done some slower groups with certain corners i want to sort out. Works well and i usually check to see if i have no traffic around to be able to do it without annoying someone else.

[discotex]

The ART days are very good, I think more having marshals at all turns is important.


The Playday guys put fixed marshals at the key flag points. From memory:

Entering T1
Entering T3 (this point can see T4)
Entering T5 (this point can see T4 and I think T6)
Exit of T6 in case there is something on the straight

You don't *really* need a flag for T2 as you can see if someone is down there. Same for entering T6. With the short lap there is a roaming marshal just around the corner as well. I haven't found a situation where an incident was a surprise and I didn't get warning to slow down.

Where else would you want marshals? Do ART do the full MNZ compliment or something?

[nzspokes]

Where else would you want marshals? Do ART do the full MNZ compliment or something?

I believe they are MNZ compliant but not 100% on this.

If you want more marshals, some of you will need to go do some days.

[vinducati]

It's my personal opinion that Marshalls and scrutinneering are good ideas and I may not ride at Playdays anymore due to this.
I may be being overly cautious.
On track Marshalls are good but last time I was there one of the Playday Marshall crashed, that doesn't seem right.

If you don't need marshals at all the Marshall positions why do ART days do it?
May I ask why Moto TT and ART do Scrutineering and not Playday, I presume it is a cost issue?
Just asking?

[Dreama]

I'm an ex racer, albeit a pretty average one, and totally used to being passed by very fast guys but it can still be un nerving experience, especially the passes just on corner entry.
I learnt to relax, hold the line and never do anything unpredictable.
90% of the time everything's fine, sometimes shit happens. I've been t boned, cut off, leant on, crashed dozens of times, concussed, burnt (and watched my bike burn) grazed and bruised. But that's racing, accept it or don't go.

Track days are surely, by definition, not hugely different except the corner passing rules delete, mostly anyway, the most common disaster spots and the riding and passing in general is not as cut throat.
I've done 3 track days at Hampton now, 2 on a very badly set up bike earlier this year that made me drop down to slow just so I could enjoy staying out there, and up.
The last one was last Thursdays twilight in med. I was on a new to me R1 that I had just finished rebuilding, I've never had an IL4 (only twins), missed the first session, was running in an engine plus all the dramas of getting used to a new bike. And, saddest of all, I'm an old cunt now.
I got passed by heaps of bikes but not one pass was a bad one and I never felt intimidated even while I was having some teething problems
I'm guessing that one day, touch wood, shit will happen again. But surely that's the risk we knowingly take. The odds of nothing bad ever happening in that environment are slim.

[FROSTY]

It's my personal opinion that Marshalls and scrutinneering are good ideas and I may not ride at Playdays anymore due to this.
I may be being overly cautious.
On track Marshalls are good but last time I was there one of the Playday Marshall crashed, that doesn't seem right.

If you don't need marshals at all the Marshall positions why do ART days do it?
May I ask why Moto TT and ART do Scrutineering and not Playday, I presume it is a cost issue?
Just asking?
Vinducati The ART days are run under the Auckland Motorcycle club umbrella. They are not strictly speaking "track days" as such. They are rider training days -thus the name A Rider Training. (cant remember what the a was for)
One part of the brief for the days when just a concept was to try to ensure as close to a race day experience as possible to ease transition from a fast trackdayer to a racer.
That means normal marshalling,riders brief and yep scrutineering.
There is a definite school of thought around scrutineering,First it chews up a lot of time and manpower. Second by not examining the machinery responsibility for the machine can only ever be the riders.
Theres another issue with scrutineering.--BOY OHH BOY does it cause some heated discussions.

[DamianW]

It's my personal opinion that Marshalls and scrutinneering are good ideas and I may not ride at Playdays anymore due to this.
I may be being overly cautious.
On track Marshalls are good but last time I was there one of the Playday Marshall crashed, that doesn't seem right.

If you don't need marshals at all the Marshall positions why do ART days do it?
May I ask why Moto TT and ART do Scrutineering and not Playday, I presume it is a cost issue?
Just asking?

Last ART day I went to (October iirc) our instructor (in group 3) crashed and took out one of the students :eek

Whether a crash on the track is my own fault or someone else's I just accept the risk it may happen. Think I've done about 15 TD's so far with one off at T6 at HD back in April. So I can live with the odds to date of a 93% chance of staying on.

[Gremlin]

They are rider training days -thus the name A Rider Training. (cant remember what the a was for)
Advanced :yes:

[nzspokes]

Last ART day I went to (October iirc) our instructor (in group 3) crashed and took out one of the students :eek



He got concrete dust on his tyres from where somebodys motor had gone.

[discotex]

He got concrete dust on his tyres from where somebodys motor had gone.

At the Playday today T4 and T6 were still bearing the concrete dust scars from the ART yesterday. Seemed grippy enough but I always hate crossing the dust :shutup:

[DamianW]

At the Playday today T4 and T6 were still bearing the concrete dust scars from the ART yesterday. Seemed grippy enough but I always hate crossing the dust :shutup:

Yeah, it was a good day without too many dramas.

Looking forward to next outing 7 February - mates donated a HD track day voucher along with a bottle of single malt and other bike related goodies as work leaving pressies.

[discotex]

Yeah, it was a good day without too many dramas.

Looking forward to next outing 7 February - mates donated a HD track day voucher along with a bottle of single malt and other bike related goodies as work leaving pressies.

Lucky bugger eh :)

I can't do the 7/2 but will be at the 10/1 for sure. Hopefully there's something on in March but might not be with Playday going down to the South Island. I might have to make a trip to Taupo or pop my ART cherry.

I went over to the fence by T3 and had a look at the progress on the extension. You can see how the corners are going to flow now and it's going to be soooo good. Hope we get to ride it before winter.