Damage at driving near redline when riding hard?

[imthatguy]

Hey guys,

Im part of a group of motorcycle enthusiast in Auckland who regularly ride SH22 from Auckland to Raglan together. Its a great ride and I really enjoy it but I find myself ringing the crap out of my little 1988 Kawasaki ZX-4 to keep up with them (they all ride modern 600 or 1000cc super-bikes). Im constantly near the redline to keep within the bikes power band and occasionally I find myself changing into the redline to cut speed / stabilise myself for the next corner ( doesn't have much engine breaking unless right up in the rpm range ).

How likely am I to blow something up running it that hard? Its not worth a huge amount, but I still get a hell of a lot of enjoyment from it so would like to know if Im going to seriously damage it running like that.

I understand the ZXR400 (which has the same engine) redlines at 14500 so Im not really sure why this is lower, can anyone explain this?

[AllanB]

A 400 IL4?

Used to being thrashed.

Mind you if you are up in the redline all the time like you say even on the 400 you'll be doing a pace no?

Blow on the pie to avoid burning.

Now everyone will come on and tell you to upgrade to a ZX14, but if that's not on the cards the best care for your engine is to give it regular oil changes with a quality motorcycle oil.

Alternatively slow down and don't try to keep the pace set by the larger bikes.

[Motu]

SH16 is a hell of a way to get to Raglan.

[Ender EnZed]

There is absolutely no need to be changing down into a gear that puts the rpm past redline. Use the brakes.

[imthatguy]

A 400 IL4?

Used to being thrashed.

Mind you if you are up in the redline all the time like you say even on the 400 you'll be doing a pace no?

Blow on the pie to avoid burning.

Now everyone will come on and tell you to upgrade to a ZX14, but if that's not on the cards the best care for your engine is to give it regular oil changes with a quality motorcycle oil.

Alternatively slow down and don't try to keep the pace set by the larger bikes.

Its definitely quote well maintained unquote by me, regular oil/filter changes, clearance adjustments, fluids regularly topped up, quality fuel etc etc.

Good to know it hopefully wont mind the abuse too much.

ZX14 definitely isn't an option at the moment but having a smaller bike has taught me some things I probably wouldn't have learnt with a bigger bike so I don't mind.

And I could but Im very competitive so thats where most of the fun is to be had! :woohoo:

[imthatguy]

There is absolutely no need to be changing down into a gear that puts the rpm past redline. Use the brakes.

Do do, and will do! However every now and again I slightly misjudge and it happens.

[Moi]

SH16 is a hell of a way to get to Raglan.

It's that new route via Glorit... :crazy:

[Had the same thought myself...]

[imthatguy]

SH16 is a hell of a way to get to Raglan.

Good point, believe Im meaning SH22, will edit post - thanks.

[Motu]

I thought the go fast guys gave up on SH22, the lack of flag marshalls was causing some concern ?

[imthatguy]

You are possibly safer buying a bike like your mates. Having said that though you sound like many group riders who ride under pressure to keep up and if your mates had any consideration for you they would ride at a pace more suited to the speed of your bike in the interest of safety. One thing you dont want to happen is your bike dying during a multi vehicle overtake while trying to keep up. So either buy a bike that matches the speed of your mates or get them to slow down a bit and you would have a better chance of living longer if they do. Good Luck with what you decide.

Thank you! I appreciate that :rolleyes:

We don't generally overtake vehicles much, as they are thankfully few and far between on that road, but thats a good point.

[Paul in NZ]

Are you in top gear? If not - maybe try a higher gear??

[Tazz]

If you're bouncing it off the limiter and or locking the rear when you're down shifting, then yes, you are doing it wrong. If you're down shifting and sustaining the high revs, then yes you are doing it wrong/'bad' for bike. Otherwise you're probably all good.

[caspernz]

You sound like you're trying too hard...:shit:

[OddDuck]

Grain of salt: I'm not familiar with the Kawasaki you're on. That out of the way... generally Japanese bikes are well engineered. The redline will be a genuinely safe engine speed. That said, forces on components like conrods etc get extremely high and it won't take going very far over redline to get into catastrophic failure territory.

It sounds like you're being careful with maintenance so that's good - but this sort of treatment is going to shorten the engine's life through wear and tear. The bike is going to start going through piston rings, then you'll have to start doing things like rebores and oversize piston sets (that said, it'll be at some pretty long intervals - crashing is probably more likely to write the bike off).

Options:

1) Accept that you'll see them head off, and you'll find them at the next intersection or rest point.
2) Bigger bike. Try a test ride or two and see if you're still happy with the current ride. I know I was amazed that I'd stayed with my 400 for as long as I had once I'd given a 750 a go.
3) Bigger front sprocket. Go a tooth up in size. Tolerate less torque for higher top speed at equivalent revs.
4) Different riding technique. Slower through the straights, faster through the corners than a bigger bike. Better tyres will make a difference, I'm running Bridgestone S20 Evo's and I've never felt more confident banked over.
5) More horsepower on current bike. Airbox / chip / exhaust mods etc... although this will torpedo the resale value of the bike (some dealers won't take it as a trade-in at all), it can get stupidly pricey, and chances are pretty good that the factory got it right anyway.

Hope this helps.

[imthatguy]

Grain of salt: I'm not familiar with the Kawasaki you're on. That out of the way... generally Japanese bikes are well engineered. The redline will be a genuinely safe engine speed. That said, forces on components like conrods etc get extremely high and it won't take going very far over redline to get into catastrophic failure territory.

It sounds like you're being careful with maintenance so that's good - but this sort of treatment is going to shorten the engine's life through wear and tear. The bike is going to start going through piston rings, then you'll have to start doing things like rebores and oversize piston sets (that said, it'll be at some pretty long intervals - crashing is probably more likely to write the bike off).

Options:

1) Accept that you'll see them head off, and you'll find them at the next intersection or rest point.
2) Bigger bike. Try a test ride or two and see if you're still happy with the current ride. I know I was amazed that I'd stayed with my 400 for as long as I had once I'd given a 750 a go.
3) Bigger front sprocket. Go a tooth up in size. Tolerate less torque for higher top speed at equivalent revs.
4) Different riding technique. Slower through the straights, faster through the corners than a bigger bike. Better tyres will make a difference, I'm running Bridgestone S20 Evo's and I've never felt more confident banked over.
5) More horsepower on current bike. Airbox / chip / exhaust mods etc... although this will torpedo the resale value of the bike (some dealers won't take it as a trade-in at all), it can get stupidly pricey, and chances are pretty good that the factory got it right anyway.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the concise reply.

Granted its not great for the bike, but I get the feeling the bike was designed to be ridden a bit like that. All the interested power happens over 10k and anything below that feels asthmatic. Also good point about writing it off, its been crashed a few times but Ive fixed it up each time and try to learn from my mistakes :facepalm:

As for going slow, thats not really the point. The challenge is to keep up because I know they have been riding for much longer and have faster / more modern bikes.
Bigger bike is in the works but wont be happening for the next few months at least.
I could.. But to be honest Im not sure the bike needs more speed, the suppension has a hard enough time keeping the back tire in contact with the ground as it is.. :no:
Oh I definitely do that, straight line speed is boring on that bike anyway. Much more interested in catching people in the corners.
Have looked into, but honestly not much point on a small capacity bike like mine, they were actually released with a racing manual, but even in full race trim they only produce aprox 80hp and with not great reliability..

[imthatguy]

You sound like you're trying too hard...:shit:

Can you ever "try too hard" :rolleyes:

[Moise]

SH22 is no longer a State Highway, hence its current state of disrepair. The correct name is now the Tuakau - Raglan Road.

I doubt you'll damage the engine by riding it hard, but I'd go easy on redlining during downshifts.

[WNJ]

As for going slow, thats not really the point. The challenge is to keep up because I know they have been riding for much longer and have faster / more modern rides ..

IMO, Firstly ,ride your own race , Secondly, If there your mates they should respect that your on a slightly slower bike and may be a bit behind, Thirdly, TEC picks up the "FAST" guys when they have an off :rolleyes:

[mulletman]

Id doubt your more than 5mins behind your mates at the end of the ride, so wouldn't be concerned about being a last. Just keep up with your maintenance (as your doing ) and hopefully you can upgrade to a 600/750 sooner.

[IkieBikie]

There has been a crash reported in the media where mates riding too close together have all gone down when the lead rider fell.

You know the story regarding this (quoted below) and you replied to it


I understand what you're saying, it's hard to focus on keeping you're own shit together when the person in front of you goes down and then throw gravel in the mix. All were also following at decent distances.

But in this case I think target fixation was only cause of the third rider to go down. There was five in the group, first one went down, second one made it through, the third and fourth didn't even see the first go down, the third went down because of gravel (same as first) and the fourth saw then go down and grabbed a handful of front brake and went off. The fifth saw it happening and managed to stop in time.

All of it happened under the speed limit as well, no real pressure to keep up as it wasn't a fast ride.


But you still go and make up your own story and own mind. You are as bad as the media - what an absolute shit stirring imbecile.

Do you have the ability to read or understand or do you lose it all in the cassina self importance fuzzy logic?

[caspernz]

Can you ever "try too hard" :rolleyes:

Absolutely :facepalm::shutup::innocent:

[IkieBikie]

All were also following at decent distances.

All of it happened under the speed limit as well

So where was the pressure to keep up as you seem to assume was happening??


There has been a crash reported in the media where mates riding too close together have all gone down when the lead rider fell. So your safety is far from assured by riding under pressure to keep up.

If you read the posts carefully you might find "All were also following at decent distances" and"All of it happened under the speed limit as well" but NO!! You know better because the media according to you said "reported in the media where mates riding too close together"

Where does it state this in this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/75464684/three-motorcyclists-drive-off-road-near-tokoroa

Wake Up and get real - not every group ride is a race

[Tazz]

All the best then if you believe such a thing could never happen to you. I bet the guys that crashed never thought it would happen to them either.
If you read the posts carefully of a few other posters on here they also say there is a danger in trying to keep up with other riders.

People who can, simply, do.

People who can't tell everyone else to do nothing and create rules and hype only to protect them from their own stupidity.

I'd let you decide where you fall with that comment, but I'm not confident you'd figure it out on your own so....hint hint...the latter.

Ride your own ride. Fuck everyone else. It's not hard.

[Erelyes]

Aiight since your first post was in Oct 14, which was about a 250, I'm gonna guess you're on your restricted.

I'll leave the 'keeping up with mates' thing alone.

Downshifting to bleed speed is fine (wise, even) but the bike shouldn't be hitting limiter when you do it. Far from 'stabilising the bike for the corner' you'll unsettle it.

Do you find yourself often changing up again, before the corner has even finished? You should be coming into a corner in a gear where you can roll it on gradually and not have to change up. (For these purposes, once you see corner exit AND you're at a point you can pin it, consider the corner ended.) Going through a corner on the limiter will achieve nowt.

[Katman]

I'm sensing a New Year's statistic.

[Crasherfromwayback]

All the best then if you believe such a thing could never happen to you. I bet the guys that crashed never thought it would happen to them either.
.

Taking it in the arse too often can apparently ruin your ringpiece. Hasn't stopped you running the risk.