Refugees to cough up

[awa355]

Demark's approach, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11575115

What do you think?. Should they keep their assets while accepting the host country's welfare, or have to pay their way?.

[eldog]

What do you think?. Should they keep their assets while accepting the host country's welfare, or have to pay their way?.

Nah, send em back. Cheaper in the long run.
Most will use NZ as a back door to Oz
We have enough problems to sort ourselves, like the roads for our rides.

[Tazz]

Harsh-ish, but kinda fair. I'd like to think if they could prove it had been in their family (heirloom type stuff) for more than one generation then they could keep it.

It's tough. What if shit hit the fan here and you and your family were at the mercy of whatever country would take you in?

[eldog]

Harsh-ish, but kinda fair. I'd like to think if they could prove it had been in their family (heirloom type stuff) for more than one generation then they could keep it.

It's tough. What if shit hit the fan here and you and your family were at the mercy of whatever country would take you in?

If shit happened (quite possible IMO)

I would live or die here rather than leave, except for the odd holiday to show me 'we just don't know how lucky we are mate'.

[Tazz]

If shit happened (quite possible IMO)

I would live or die here rather than leave, except for the odd holiday to show me 'we just don't know how lucky we are mate'.

Do you have children?

[awa355]

Years ago, we stayed with friends in a small Swiss village. Across the road were a family of Croatian refugees. They had bought the house (bloody expensive there) . Had a new Mercedes and a late model BMW. Apparently you didn't have to be penniless to be a refugee.

[eldog]

Do you have children?

I have relatives who I care for, and would protect them with my life.
Sacrificing my life if need be to help/protect them is an option, I could take.

But I would do it here in my country of birth.

If I was on the loosing side and didn't get killed, even though I would hate it I expect that someday things would change.

[eldog]

Years ago, we stayed with friends in a small Swiss village. Across the road were a family of Croatian refugees. They had bought the house (bloody expensive there) . Had a new Mercedes and a late model BMW. Apparently you didn't have to be penniless to be a refugee.

I imagine these aren't your usual refugees like we see now in the media.
I know of people who have fled their original country and being able to buy homes/cars/businesses here in NZ. But they didn't come as refugees.

[Tazz]

I have relatives who I care for, and would protect them with my life.
Sacrificing my life if need be to help/protect them is an option, I could take.

But I would do it here in my country of birth.

If I was on the loosing side and didn't get killed, even though I would hate it I expect that someday things would change.

Eh? It's a yes or no question ;)

[eldog]

Eh? It's a yes or no question ;)

As far as I know the answer you seek is NO
but I have relatives that I consider/treat like my own as in YES

I should expand that for you. If their parents became incapacitated/dead I would be glad to become their caregiver

I don't like bludging on others, except for help when I am not sure, like on KB.

So all these refugees have children?.....

[Tazz]

As far as I know the answer you seek is NO
but I have relatives that I consider/treat like my own as in YES

I should expand that for you. If their parents became incapacitated/dead I would be glad to become their caregiver

I don't like bludging on others, except for help when I am not sure, like on KB.

So all these refugees have children?.....

No, you're just looking to deep into the question, going off on a random tangent and putting words in my mouth. Are you my mother? :laugh: I was just curious man. I don't have any either.
I can understand having dependants, but it's a short enough sentence to just say that :bleh:

Anyway, back on topic, if the refugee status has only gotten them in the door and they haven't been dependant on handouts I don't see why they shouldn't be able to come buy property (including the tax etc). Different story if they are getting a hand out when they don't need it, but how many citizens are there already doing that anyway? Damn sight larger amount than there ever will be of 'bludging' refugees.

[eldog]

No, you're just looking to deep into the question, going off on a random tangent and putting words in my mouth. Are you my mother? :laugh: I was just curious man. I don't have any either.

I look after between 12 and 20 children at work. They are supposed to be adults. Can be like herding cats.

No worries.

I have seen the results of recent emigrant policy here in AKL.

[RDJ]

Demark's approach, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11575115

What do you think?. Should they keep their assets while accepting the host country's welfare, or have to pay their way?.

Let me see. Let them pay their way as much as feasible, or let them keep whatever they have (howsoever gained...) and despite never having contributed anything to the infrastructure and governance of their new country, sign up for all benefits from cradle to grave paid for by us suckers. Yep, I can see how that would be a tough one...

[eldog]

Once your refugee gains access into an EU country then can travel willy nilly to any other one and I expect gain same benefits too - as well as bringing in the tribe.

Same problem Aussies have with people coming here and getting resident papers and then migrate to the land of milk and honey

Of course there are going to be the perfect citizens in amongst them.

[jasonu]

As long as they don't come here I don't give a fuck.
Of course if my man Donald Trump gets in I won't have to worry about them at all.

[oldrider]

As long as they don't come here I don't give a fuck.
Of course if my man Donald Trump gets in I won't have to worry about them at all.

Do you really believe that? - Remember the guy who said "Yes we can"? - Well no he didn't! - Anyone who gets in over there will be an AIPAC puppet! :corn:

[TheDemonLord]

A quick skim of the article indicates that the policy is largely the same as the welfare policies that apply to native Danes. I did however love the bluntness of flat out stating that it was mainly to deter Migrants.

[J.A.W.]

A quick skim of the article indicates that the policy is largely the same as the welfare policies that apply to native Danes. I did however love the bluntness of flat out stating that it was mainly to deter Migrants.

Yeah, pretty sure that UN policies account for proper reffo's being in a special category - compared to 'migrants' per se..

[jonbuoy]

I think Angela is slowly realising that refugees might not integrate quite as smoothly as she hoped. They don't seem to know how to behave around western women. How could she be so naive?

[RDJ]

I think Angela is slowly realising that refugees might not integrate quite as smoothly as she hoped. They don't seem to know how to behave around western women. How could she be so naive?

She was raised in East Germany, daughter of a believer in an imaginary sky friend. The Communists were fond of denying, concealing and rewriting large chunks of history; religious people frequently indulge in the same activity.

[jonbuoy]

She was raised in East Germany, daughter of a believer in an imaginary sky friend. The Communists were fond of denying, concealing and rewriting large chunks of history; religious people frequently indulge in the same activity.

I think it's going to be her downfall. She seems genuinely shocked by their behaviour - what the hell did she expect. They look at unescorted women as "sluts" and "fair game". and can't understand why the male population let them walk around wearing whatever they want.

[eldog]

There's a few holiday camps she could send them to for r&r :rolleyes:

[awa355]

I wonder how many of those refugee's had money in overseas accounts before leaving their countries. If so, I think they should have to use those assets before expecting welfare from countries taking them in. The Danes have to utilize their assets before being eligible for national welfare.
I have read that Sweden is spending 38% of its' welfare on immigrants. If that is correct, I can understand how the Swedes/Danes/Germans etc are getting slightly pissed off.

[eldog]

I wonder how many of those refugee's had money in overseas accounts before leaving their countries. If so, I think they should have to use those assets before expecting welfare from countries taking them in. The Danes have to utilize their assets before being eligible for national welfare.
I have read that Sweden is spending 38% of its' welfare on immigrants. If that is correct, I can understand how the Swedes/Danes/Germans etc are getting slightly pissed off.

38% imagine if we had to do that here..... I would get bugger all.

[jonbuoy]

I wonder how many of those refugee's had money in overseas accounts before leaving their countries. If so, I think they should have to use those assets before expecting welfare from countries taking them in. The Danes have to utilize their assets before being eligible for national welfare.
I have read that Sweden is spending 38% of its' welfare on immigrants. If that is correct, I can understand how the Swedes/Danes/Germans etc are getting slightly pissed off.

I don't get what they are supposed to do when they do arrive. Not many will speak English let alone German or Danish. The majority will end up doing menial work for minimal pay or stay on benefits, they might be grateful to just be somewhere "safe" for a few years but they might get a bit disenchanted when their kids get picked on at school and they feel like second class citizens. Before you know it 2nd and 3rd generations turn against us.

German government have done their sums I'm sure and realised there manufacturing industry could do with a fresh batch of cheap labour. Not so sure they have thought it through long term. Fresh migrants might be willing to work for buttons but thier kids and grandkids want equal standing.

[mashman]

:killingme@an entirely money related issue and the follow up ignorance.

[RDJ]

:killingme@an entirely money related issue and the follow up ignorance.

The central issue is not entirely (and certainly not only) money related. People who have no financial investment in a society have no emotional investment in the stability of that society. If your position in a society, and your attitude towards that society, is that you are entitled to withdraw from its social capital (and capital in this context does not mean only money but does include money) but do not have to contribute to replenishing and improving that society, then you are basically a parasite.

As the original article stated, the Danes are applying no less and no more rigourous scrutiny to (Illegal) immigrants finances than they do to their own citizens who have, by contrast, contributed for years, or even decades to building Danish society.

If the open borders people got their way, functioning societies and successful states would in quite the short-term break down into swamps of poverty; outright force would rule (for a good 'modern' example on how that works out, take a look at Somalia), and the impoverished and ill whom the socialists profess to care so much about, would quickly die off. Only a functioning successful state has surplus production that enables it to look after the impoverished and the ill.

[mashman]

The central issue is not entirely (and certainly not only) money related. People who have no financial investment in a society have no emotional investment in the stability of that society. If your position in a society, and your attitude towards that society, is that you are entitled to withdraw from its social capital (and capital in this context does not mean only money but does include money) but do not have to contribute to replenishing and improving that society, then you are basically a parasite.

As the original article stated, the Danes are applying no less and no more rigourous scrutiny to (Illegal) immigrants finances than they do to their own citizens who have, by contrast, contributed for years, or even decades to building Danish society.

If the open borders people got their way, functioning societies and successful states would in quite the short-term break down into swamps of poverty; outright force would rule (for a good 'modern' example on how that works out, take a look at Somalia), and the impoverished and ill whom the socialists profess to care so much about, would quickly die off. Only a functioning successful state has surplus production that enables it to look after the impoverished and the ill.

Before I answer I'd like to make something clear. Given that this is KB, I don't expect that you, or anyone else for that matter, will accept this rider. I fully understand your position having spent the vast majority of my life expressing very similar views on the same subject i.e. dirty bastards should do something for a living. That dirty bastards is not limited to refrugees/immigrants, but also included the career bludger and anyone else considered as a drain on society. As I said, I don't expect you to accept that. Anyhoo...

I class myself as having no financial investment in society, yet I most definitely have emotional investment in the stability of ALL societies... even those societies that convention states that I have no part in i.e. I've never lived in them and therefore don't contribute towards them. As you say, there are parasites running amok who believe that they are entitled to stuff that someone else doesn't believe they should be entitled to, but they are at all levels of the "pyramid". The Kardashains spring to mind as an example of the more affluent.

True, and it is an entirely financial measure that sets the level of entitlement afforded.

I agree that that would likely happen. However the only reason that that would happen would be because of money. There is no thing as a successful functioning state with surplus production as they are ALL (bar 5 reported, Macao, the Virgin Islands, Brunei, Liechtenstein, Palau) in debt. Given that they are ALL in debt, someone is going to have to lose i.e. be unemployed or earn a shit wage given that there isn't enough money for business etc... and it's hardly surprising that social capital is "lost" given that it has been replaced by a $ rated entitlement system. Generally the least well equipped in society are paid barely a living wage because it has been decided that that is all that those least equipped should be entitled to. Parasitic behaviour takes advantage of these less entitled and the reward for such behaviour is money.

Removing the money removes the vast majority of the issues we would suffer, including issues that affect and drive social capital. Meh, this is KB :D

[oldrider]

I don't get what they are supposed to do when they do arrive.

They are doing what they were meant to do!

I.E. Destabilise the host countries and create a chaotic situation from the ashes of which the new Phoenix (???) shall arise! :shifty: (A prescribed offer not able to be refused)

[jasonu]

I don't get what they are supposed to do when they do arrive. Not many will speak English. The majority will end up doing menial work for minimal pay or stay on benefits, they might be grateful to just be somewhere "safe" for a few years but they might get a bit disenchanted when their kids get picked on at school and they feel like second class citizens. Before you know it 2nd and 3rd generations turn against us.

German government have done their sums I'm sure and realised there manufacturing industry could do with a fresh batch of cheap labour. Not so sure they have thought it through long term. Fresh migrants might be willing to work for buttons but thier kids and grandkids want equal standing.

Sounds like in the 70's when Norm Kirk thought it was a good idea to let in a few islanders to put the tops on the toothpaste tubes.

[J.A.W.]

Sounds like in the 70's when Norm Kirk thought it was a good idea to let in a few islanders to put the tops on the toothpaste tubes.

They do that?

Shit, maybe I should've married one of them!

[jasonu]

Shit, maybe I should've married one of them!

I thought you were one.

[J.A.W.]

I thought you were one.

Sure am, aren't you?

AFAIK we all are of 'this island, Earth'..

Ethnic habits-wise, the re-cap thing, it aint really a deal breaker.. jest one them thangs..

[R650R]

Truck ME!!! its bad over there


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ESI4pTDI9g

[Moi]

A little background reading (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11576021)...