Oil gunk

[liambucket]

Hey all, I'm just wondering if its usual for a CB/XL125s engine that when it comes time to drop the oil is it usual to find little fragments of what I can only assume are gearbox bits (as they will stick to a magnet) And then after I had removed the side cover to clean the centrifugal filter I found a back/brown film of shit with some more tiny metal fragments sitting in the bottom of the case (I assume the black/brown sludge is clutch residue?) Or is the motor toast? Its a 1978-85 era CB125 frame with a unknown XL125s Engine (still running points)

Cheers for any help :doh:

[FJRider]

Yep ............... <_<

Not toast ... I've seen worse.

Might go for a few years yet. (or not)

[RGVforme]

Hey all, I'm just wondering if its usual for a CB/XL125s engine that when it comes time to drop the oil is it usual to find little fragments of what I can only assume are gearbox bits (as they will stick to a magnet) And then after I had removed the side cover to clean the centrifugal filter I found a back/brown film of shit with some more tiny metal fragments sitting in the bottom of the case (I assume the black/brown sludge is clutch residue?) Or is the motor toast? Its a 1978-85 era CB125 frame with a unknown XL125s Engine (still running points)

Cheers for any help :doh:

A lot of short trips cause the brown sludge.....Metal "Swarfing"...On a sump plug and in oil is normal bikes and cars.

Worry when it starts making funny noises.:msn-wink:

[liambucket]

Yeah its only had a few short trips around the block in.... 10 years? Bike got pulled out of storage, got a new barrell then I bought it, All ive done is whisk it up and down the road to make sure it went and stopped then thought Id treat it to oil (dont know if the bloke who fitted the barrel did oil I would think he did) But there isnt alot of the sludge or metal bits. But enough to have me a little bit worried haha, I hope the engine lasts a little while longer, its in a old bucket racer and I want to try get at least a season or two out of it before it needs a re-fresh

[AllanB]

Anyone ever run a oil flush through a motorcycle engine? Common on cars - done a few myself after purchasing a older used vehicle - engine oil flush and fresh stuff in there.


You can always run a few oil changes through it over a short period of time to effectively flush out the unknown oils. Filter too obviously.

It's a Honda - clean oil, plugs and unless it is making evil noises it will go and go and go

If the clutch is toast it usually smells burnt.

[liambucket]

Anyone ever run a oil flush through a motorcycle engine? Common on cars - done a few myself after purchasing a older used vehicle - engine oil flush and fresh stuff in there.


You can always run a few oil changes through it over a short period of time to effectively flush out the unknown oils. Filter too obviously.

It's a Honda - clean oil, plugs and unless it is making evil noises it will go and go and go

If the clutch is toast it usually smells burnt.
Yeah once I've refitted the oil filter (the screws holding it on are questionable) Its getting flushed with a few changes of oil before I put in my apparently gold plated oil in, stuff retails for $160 for four litres of it, got it down to $77 So Im pretty happy with that considering Ill get around 4 changes with it.

[Grumph]

Yeah once I've refitted the oil filter (the screws holding it on are questionable) Its getting flushed with a few changes of oil before I put in my apparently gold plated oil in, stuff retails for $160 for four litres of it, got it down to $77 So Im pretty happy with that considering Ill get around 4 changes with it.

DO NOT put modern full synthetic oil in the old shitter. Full synthetics don't do well in roller bearing cranks plus some pattern gaskets - which we can assume that thing's got - will dammnear dissolve on synthetic.
spectro 20/50 mineral at around $50 for 4 liters is more than good enough IMO.

The crud you're seeing may just be the residue of previous owner's lack of maintenance or a past blowup where it hasn't been properly cleaned out.
Clean the centrifugal filter - it's worth making or buying the right socket to get it off the crank - and keep an eye on it at every oil change.

[malcy25]

My CB100 had multiple piston failures due to the hammering it used to get everywhere and the poor quality after market pistons we used. It never created a problem elsewhere in the engine. I eventually sold it to a mate and we stripped the centrifugal filter and it was full of shit.

Clean it, refit it. As Grumph says, don't get flash on oil, change it regularly and just ride it.

[liambucket]

DO NOT put modern full synthetic oil in the old shitter. Full synthetics don't do well in roller bearing cranks plus some pattern gaskets - which we can assume that thing's got - will dammnear dissolve on synthetic.
spectro 20/50 mineral at around $50 for 4 liters is more than good enough IMO.

The crud you're seeing may just be the residue of previous owner's lack of maintenance or a past blowup where it hasn't been properly cleaned out.
Clean the centrifugal filter - it's worth making or buying the right socket to get it off the crank - and keep an eye on it at every oil change.

Grumph, I did ring Penrite to see what there listing for oils were for a 1979 CB125, and they said if I was going racing with it to use it, It is a full synthetic, with Ester and Zinc.. I was just going off what the supplier lists for the bike.

[liambucket]

And the filter, I just took the three countersunk screws off and popped that little cover off to find a whole heap of gunk, Is there more to clean than just in there?

[Grumph]

Grumph, I did ring Penrite to see what there listing for oils were for a 1979 CB125, and they said if I was going racing with it to use it, It is a full synthetic, with Ester and Zinc.. I was just going off what the supplier lists for the bike.

Way overboard for a CB125. I stand by what i said before. I've got several customer roller bearing posties racing on Spectro 20/50 mineral - very satisfactorily too.
Find a manual. Inside that cover is a piece on the end of the crank which is the centrifugal oil filter. It should be pulled off and cleaned thoroughly.
This requires a special 4 pronged socket. They are available aftermarket - see trademe - or can be made by cutting away a standard socket.

[AllanB]

I'm a big full synthetic fan, however I'm with the above on this one - a 79 CB125 with unknown history and a load of crud in the filter. Mineral or semi synthetic are absolutely fine - just change them frequently.

I've been interested in semi-synthetics for a while out of curiosity as they have become a default in many workshops. What I am trying to determine and relatively unsuccessfully so for is a percentage of the 'synthetic' element - some are stated as 'synthetic technology'. They are good old Dino oils with strains of synthetic additives to improve the base oil.

Nothing wrong with that but I do wonder how many are just shy of cheaper standard oils ........ and really offer limited improvement if such.

[liambucket]

Did I mention that its a mid 80's XL engine fitted, anyway. I've already bought the oil and used some so theres no taking it back now. I had thought the XL/CB engines had white metal and ball bearings? Either way. The synthetic is in there now. Penrite stand by their products too, So if it does need a mineral oil I'll get it through them. Though whats this about it dissolving gaskets?

[husaberg]

Did I mention that its a mid 80's XL engine fitted, anyway. I've already bought the oil and used some so theres no taking it back now. I had thought the XL/CB engines had white metal and ball bearings? Either way. The synthetic is in there now. Penrite stand by their products too, So if it does need a mineral oil I'll get it through them. Though whats this about it dissolving gaskets?

No white metal bearing in a old Honda single, Roller and ball bearings and direct in the alloy head (for the cam).
The head from a Gl145 has a roller cam set up (but with points) As well as bigger valves than even the XR200/XL125S Head (this can be changed to a CDI set up)
Any oil will be fine, just change it regularly. Watch for a wobbly cam in the head as this upsets the ignition timing, Plus through in a new camchain.
Make sure you don't displace the oil restrictor rubber blob in the head, make sure the o-ring is good in the cylinder stud as this is the oil feed for the top end.
The CB100 has the best and closest gear ratios (5 speed)
The XR185/XL185/XR200 crank fits all the S model cases and gives a 57.8mm stroke. This can be made to fit the early cases with a bit of machining on the crank inner bearing surfaces.

Vincent Crabtree did a nice little overview of all the Xr200 and similar stuff.
Google "on the problem of the XR200"

[Grumph]

Though whats this about it dissolving gaskets?

I have had the experience of a full synthetic oil dissolving aftermarket gaskets.
Another reason why I stay away from putting synthetics in a motor with unknown history.

Your story is the reverse of a customer of mine some years back...He got a full oil sponsorship - from a brand I approved of too - then I found he was putting it in his bloody van. I told him to put it in his van AFTER it had been in the race motor...

[Flip]

Cork gaskets........dont like Mobil 1.

Most of the products marked synthetic are just super refined and not synthetics at all.

I run "synthetic" 20W60 Penrite in the 1938 BMW and have R71 so far so good.

[liambucket]

I have had the experience of a full synthetic oil dissolving aftermarket gaskets.
Another reason why I stay away from putting synthetics in a motor with unknown history.

Well I rang penrite again, they said there was issues with seals and gaskets with the older Synthetic tech but the new breed of synthetic oils is safe for it. Once it again they said its what they list for it.

[RGVforme]

Well I rang penrite again, they said there was issues with seals and gaskets with the older Synthetic tech but the new breed of synthetic oils is safe for it. Once it again they said its what they list for it.

Again you perhaps need to stay within the context and age of the tech your dealing with or you may just be throwing money away on over exp oil you don't need....Racing it aside....Stick to the oil specs for that engine and as close to the type of oil that was around at the time the engine was designed and change it more often if the engine seems "Gunky" and needs flushing out is the best you can do,Esp with a close to a 50 year old motor.

Or OCD your coin away if that's your thing.:headbang:

[Big Dog]

My 10c, I would trust a mechanic offering you free advice when he has nothing to gain before I would trust an oil company with nothing to lose.

Sent via tapatalk.

[actungbaby]

Hey all, I'm just wondering if its usual for a CB/XL125s engine that when it comes time to drop the oil is it usual to find little fragments of what I can only assume are gearbox bits (as they will stick to a magnet) And then after I had removed the side cover to clean the centrifugal filter I found a back/brown film of shit with some more tiny metal fragments sitting in the bottom of the case (I assume the black/brown sludge is clutch residue?) Or is the motor toast? Its a 1978-85 era CB125 frame with a unknown XL125s Engine (still running points)

Cheers for any help :doh:

When i pulled my xl 100 k2 engine apart the dam engine was really dirty

The bit where the engine oil goes through above the oil pump it was like a grey

chalk i just chiped it out with a screw driver .one recipt from the previous

owner it said oil needed to be changed . grrr people are so stubid.

take the clutch cover off and give it a clean . they dont have oil filters

just a wire mesh thumbil thing on the left side the engine down by the

gear change there a small round cover . with a top on the same as

the valve inspection caps on top the rocker covers .

Just use standred engine oil is fine .you wasting money and not going to achive

anything using sythetic oil . main thing is there only about the ltr of oil so keep it changed

and at the right level and the engine will be fine. i had my xl 100 for over 30 years know

[husaberg]

When i pulled my xl 100 k2 engine apart the dam engine was really dirty

The bit where the engine oil goes through above the oil pump it was like a grey

chalk i just chiped it out with a screw driver .one recipt from the previous

owner it said oil needed to be changed . grrr people are so stubid.

take the clutch cover off and give it a clean . they dont have oil filters

just a wire mesh thumbil thing on the left side the engine down by the

gear change there a small round cover . with a top on the same as

the valve inspection caps on top the rocker covers .

Just use standred engine oil is fine .you wasting money and not going to achive

anything using sythetic oil . main thing is there only about the ltr of oil so keep it changed

and at the right level and the engine will be fine. i had my xl 100 for over 30 years know


320210320214320211
That bit where the oil goes through to the pump is actually the oil filter on a Honda single.:msn-wink:
It works by centrifugal force much like a sludge trap on a old pommy bikes crankshaft.


The castle nut that secures it to enable you to give it a decent clean, should be the same as on the inner clutch hub.
These can be readily brought or made at a pinch from an old socket.
320212320213

Most of the small Honda single s (up to 250) use the same flywheel puller as a Honda 50 so buy one of these at the same time
320216

Those little Honda have a habit of sticking clutch plates when they are left parked up, causing drag, this is cured............ by riding them.

[liambucket]

Well the oil company does have something to lose, they have gaurentees and warentees to upstand, I did ask for their listing for a mineral oil, but they dont really do any mineral oil for it. I dont mind paying for reliability and I trust Penrite more than most other oil companys

[pete376403]

As Penrite have no control over how the engine is used, nor do they have any idea of the engines condition, at the absolute most any warranty will be limited to replacement of the oil. But I reckon you'd be lucky to get even that.

"I was using your oil and my crankshaft failed, can I have a new engine?" is not going to fly.

[RGVforme]

As Penrite have no control over how the engine is used, nor do they have any idea of the engines condition, at the absolute most any warranty will be limited to replacement of the oil. But I reckon you'd be lucky to get even that.

"I was using your oil and my crankshaft failed, can I have a new engine?" is not going to fly.

Lol he can only but ask.....The way Liambucket is talking oil you would think he was prepping a F1 rocket ship not a bucket racer.Hopefully he over thinks and spends as much on good riding gear to race in come the time.
They really are a different breed down south aren't they.

A fool and his money blah blah blah :facepalm:

[liambucket]

Lol he can only but ask.....The way Liambucket is talking oil you would think he was prepping a F1 rocket ship not a bucket racer.Hopefully he over thinks and spends as much on good riding gear to race in come the time.
They really are a different breed down south aren't they.

A fool and his money blah blah blah :facepalm:

Small price to pay for a good product that I didn't have to drive an hour to get...

[Kickaha]

DO NOT put modern full synthetic oil in the old shitter.
I wont tell you what the GN has always run then :shifty:


Again you perhaps need to stay within the context and age of the tech your dealing with
Technology moves on in oil and in motors and there are far better oil options available than there were when those bikes came out

[RGVforme]

I wont tell you what the GN has always run then :shifty:


Technology moves on in oil and in motors and there are far better oil options available than there were when those bikes came out

Lol the southys are getting worked up now......

Yes Oil tech can and has advanced so far then stopped.....It has for a while now.Each to their own but the level of difference using a more expensive compared to the cheaper oil that is still with in specs on an older motor is an unknown and cant be defended really.

I re use my old serviced every 1000k Dr650 semi syn thumper oil to top off my 94 300k camry every 6 months this is not within the specs for the engine but does not in my view adversely affect or improve what already is a old and getting worn engine and is better value for my money after spending so much on bike oil In that context.

Your can put a $1200 horse saddle on a 20 year old donkey its still a 20 year old donkey.

[liambucket]

I understand that point, but the engine has been recond. And as I've stated as well is its too late to take the oil back for a refund.
Finally an opinion near mine Kickaha. Oh well I have been very politely advised that this thread has stretched beyond being advice now. So might let this one slide. Now that I know that its not going to grenade because of my oil choice. :msn-wink:

[actungbaby]

320210320214320211
That bit where the oil goes through to the pump is actually the oil filter on a Honda single.:msn-wink:
It works by centrifugal force much like a sludge trap on a old pommy bikes crankshaft.


The castle nut that secures it to enable you to give it a decent clean, should be the same as on the inner clutch hub.
These can be readily brought or made at a pinch from an old socket.
320212320213

Most of the small Honda single s (up to 250) use the same flywheel puller as a Honda 50 so buy one of these at the same time
320216

Those little Honda have a habit of sticking clutch plates when they are left parked up, causing drag, this is cured............ by riding them.

Thanks mate where do you buy thses tools of ebay ? my thread on the crank shaft bit damaged i must wrap them in tape

in future if left sitting around . just brought a gasket for the oil pump plate was told by local honda dealer . they choudint get them

but got one from encho honda . not sure using a screw driver to undo them or drift is wise as lead to more damage

yes i get on to buying those tools . just on last stages puting it back togehter . going to soak new cultch plates in new engine oil

b4 fitting . i got another xr 200 engine to build need second hand crank case cover as one of the gearbox blind bearings is damaged

tryed getting one from local bearing place but there werid size. then i got my Honda xl 100 k2 to work on new stator or magneto.

[husaberg]

Thanks mate where do you buy thses tools of ebay ? my thread on the crank shaft bit damaged i must wrap them in tape

in future if left sitting around . just brought a gasket for the oil pump plate was told by local honda dealer . they choudint get them

but got one from encho honda . not sure using a screw driver to undo them or drift is wise as lead to more damage

yes i get on to buying those tools . just on last stages puting it back togehter . going to soak new cultch plates in new engine oil

b4 fitting . i got another xr 200 engine to build need second hand crank case cover as one of the gearbox blind bearings is damaged

tryed getting one from local bearing place but there werid size. then i got my Honda xl 100 k2 to work on new stator or magneto.

We used to make them out of sockets.
Did you look on trademe

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1069722536
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/tools-toolkits/auction-1069526044.htm
ebay does have them
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-WRENCH-LOCK-NUT-SPANNER-CLUTCH-TOOL-XL-70-Z50-XR-50-CRF-50-XR-70-CRF-70-/120953504497

somewhere like here
http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/category/tools-motorbike
or ballards will have them
http://www.ballards.cc/catalogue/

Honda are renowned for one off bearing sizes.

[actungbaby]

We used to make them out of sockets.
Did you look on trademe

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1069722536
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/tools-toolkits/auction-1069526044.htm
ebay does have them
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-WRENCH-LOCK-NUT-SPANNER-CLUTCH-TOOL-XL-70-Z50-XR-50-CRF-50-XR-70-CRF-70-/120953504497

somewhere like here
http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/category/tools-motorbike
or ballards will have them
http://www.ballards.cc/catalogue/

Honda are renowned for one off bearing sizes.

pain in the bum too i got get second hand crank case know.

thanks again i strated out to try with 3/4 socket but cant see it not breaking of .

Thanks i book marked and added to watch list on ebay and tm

seems have werid tread pitch too . i gotta wrap the treads on important parts . need tread on the crank fixed that the cent oil filter on

then it be all back toghter . finally only been 4 years