Dealer trade-in negotiation?

[The End]

I'm looking at trading in my bike and paying cash difference to purchase another one.

The bike I am looking at is priced at $5,995. I'm wanting to trade in my bike which if I sold privately on Trademe, would get close to $5,000.

I know how dealers work - they will offer me as little as possible for my trade-in bike, and expect me to pay full price on their for sale motorcycle.


When it comes to negotiation, do I have more or less ability to ask for a discount when I am trading in my bike?


I was thinking of offering a lowball price of $5,250 and seeing where they would go to from there.

OR

Am I better off telling them I want more for my machine, and paying closer to the list price on their for sale bike?


If it helps, I purchased my current motorcycle from this dealer when I traded in my previous bike for my current one, so I have done business there before.

[caspernz]

The choice is entirely yours. Bear in mind a private sale price and a dealer trade-in offer are never going to be in the same ballpark. If you want max dollar for your old bike, sell it on trade me. If it's minimum hassle you want, haggle a bit on the trade-in and take the perceived loss. I've done both in the past, and view the trade-in approach a better use of my time...but like I said, your choice :devil2:

[Hubris]

If you were to negotiate your best price on the new bike and THEN bring up that you wanted to use a trade-in......you would still get the low-ball offer on your old bike, but you wouldn't also be faced with a padded price on the new one.

[TheDemonLord]

The last 2 bikes I have bought I managed to get Frame sliders and a Pack rack fitted at no extra cost and get a good trade in deal

The option to negotiate is always there - my best advise is to make sure that you are looking after the shops interests as well as your own - If you suggest a figure where the shop can make a nice tidy profit (they are a business after-all) but still gives you a good deal, this opens the door to a good deal.

A good assumption is that any bike shop will spend at least 1 hour of shop time looking over your bike and fixing any little issues to bring it up to standard, possibly also servicing it as well. So assume that they will 'spend' about $200-500 on your bike and that they want to make a profit: - so your $5k private sale is down to $4.5k, now add in 20-30% profit margin - a good trade in figure is going to be about $3-3.5K.

If you can't negotiate on price, you can negotiate on other things, being prepared to put money down to show your serious intention as a buyer also helps. For example asking a bike shop what the total cost of a bike would be if you included some Farkles would be, and what deal they could do if you were to put the money down now etc.

Edit:

Also remember the best negotiating tool is also to be prepared to walk away, no need to be an arse about it, but if they aren't budging, or aren't moving enough then prepared to politely try elsewhere.

[Mike.Gayner]

The dealer is interested in the same thing you are - the changeover price (with obviously some consideration given to the margin on your bike). There's no point trying to play tricks with them, just discuss the changeover price directly.

[nodrog]

You with be able to negotiate the best discount if you pay cash......

umm not that's not necessarily true. dealers are often willing to give a better deal if you are financing, due to the fact they get paid for signing people up to a finance company.

tax evasion cash deals are so 1980's.

[Hubris]

I agree with you...but this does depend somewhat on negotiating skill and willingness to put up with gentle conflict as part of the process. Clearly you want the most for your money, they want you to have the least for it (as this gives them the most) and dealers are likely more-practised at the art of the deal. Working from genuine figures as others have suggested in this thread rather than emotion (but it's such an amazing bike, I loved it) certainly helps both sides come to an understanding...if both sides are willing to engage in reasonable compromise. If this always happened, we wouldn't have so many feeling that they got a raw deal.


The dealer is interested in the same thing you are - the changeover price (with obviously some consideration given to the margin on your bike). There's no point trying to play tricks with them, just discuss the changeover price directly.

[Mike.Gayner]

You with be able to negotiate the best discount if you pay cash. What a lot of people forget when trading in is the dealer is required to add GST on the bike which further depresses the trade in value they offer you and on a $5000 bike thats $750.

Not really correct. The dealer claims GST on the purchase of the used vehicle as a second hand goods claim, so the transaction is GST-neutral to the dealer. If some dealer tries to convince you they need to discount their purchase price 15% for GST, they're trying to shaft you.

[nodrog]

You dont sound like you are very finacially literate as with buying a bike though a finance company you will end up paying far more than the advertised price.

You fuckin spastic, where did I mention I had financed a bike through a shop?

And do you really think the shop gives a fuck about the customers financial circumstances, before their own?

[RJC]

Don't worry about the trade in price or the bike price, only the difference matters. That's the sum you need to negotiate.

If I had a bike worth $5k and wanted to get a bike worth $6k, I'd expect the difference to be around $2k.

[pritch]

Don't necessarily decide that the dealer is out to shaft you. They have expenses, they will have to offer some sort of guarantee on your old bike, just as you would expect them to come to the party if you have a problem with your new bike.

Most dealers aren't making a killing. If they were, we wouldn't be hearing about dealerships closing as we have been.

[nodrog]

Fuckin spastic yourself. I was responding to the advise you were giving to OTHERS which demonstrated financial illiteracy in my book.

ok spaz

http://www.peggylarkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/zoolander-for-blog.png

[trufflebutter]

If it helps, I purchased my current motorcycle from this dealer when I traded in my previous bike for my current one, so I have done business there before.

I did the same thing some years ago, went to trade my then bike at the same dealership I bought it from 18 months prior, on another bike.
They offered me just under half what I paid for it.... as a trade.
I said that's not enough, they asked what I wanted, which was $2k more than their offer, I was told to sell it privately then go and see them. I sold privately for $3K more than I wanted as a trade and bought a brand new bike else where.


Really depends on how bad you want a bike, as to what deal you'll accept.

[Moi]

The dealer is interested in the same thing you are - the changeover price...


Don't worry about the trade in price or the bike price, only the difference matters. That's the sum you need to negotiate. If I had a bike worth $5k and wanted to get a bike worth $6k, I'd expect the difference to be around $2k.


+1...

This is the only figure to have set in your mind - how much will you spend to ride out of the dealer's on a new bike...

When that figure is correct for you and the dealer than you have a good deal and everyone is happy...

[Erelyes]

What a lot of people forget when trading in is the dealer is required to add GST on the bike which further depresses the trade in value they offer you and on a $5000 bike thats $750.


Fuckin spastic yourself. I was responding to the advise you were giving to OTHERS which demonstrated financial illiteracy in my book.

Yet you yourself insinuated dealers can't claim GST on secondhand goods; which they can. (http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/additional-calcs/calc-spec-supplies/calc-special/special-supplies-r-v.html)

Now, it's not uncommon for finance companies to make it worth the while for the dealer to use a particular company. Particularly so in economic climates where lenders are swimming with cash.

OP, back to your question: what is true is that with a trade in you are basically paying for labor for someone to look over the bike, fix up the niggles, and then they are still faced with selling it. Plus it is an unknown quantity, a risk, so they could be sinking its money down the drain (selling a new bike is a safe bet).

Go in, negotiate friendly, be realistic, don't waste their time, and everyone will be happy.

Also, your bike is probably worth a little less than you think it is. This is not me saying this after seeing your bike, but rather a general observation.

[awa355]

10 posts before the handbags came out, Well done. :clap::clap:

[Gremlin]

Changeover price is the real number. When negotiating, they can choose to up the trade value or lower the sale price, whatever, to get a better changeover cost. That was how I worked my last one, and during negotiation some stuff was thrown in, I could buy other stuff at cost etc.

Remember that new bikes on the floor are usually on a finance plan, so a, they're not paying that value in one big wad when getting in new stock, but equally, if it's been sitting on the floor too long it starts to hurt. With 2nd hand bikes, they have to stump up any value straight away (or you negotiate a more funky deal), and then it changes again if the bike is for sale on behalf.

2nd bikes also have to sit there, often for a while, before they can realise some value, and someone will come along and try to low ball them on it (so they're squeezed in the middle).

If you want the best deal money wise, sell your bike, buy the new one. Get fucked around by tyre kickers, don't get the new shiny desirable until you've sold yours... or walk up, flick them some money and get the one you want almost straight away.

I've done both, yes, you can take a bit of a bath on trading but you may end up doing that anyway when you don't sell privately. Pros and cons, pick one, enjoy the new bike when you get it.

[Akzle]

You dont sound like you are very finacially literate as with buying a bike though a finance company you will end up paying far more than the advertised price.

son of a fucking bitch. i accidentally green reppd this.
if everyone could do me a favour and red, with the comment "you're a fucking idiot", that would be swell.

[Erelyes]

son of a fucking bitch. i accidentally green reppd this.
if everyone could do me a favour and red, with the comment "you're a fucking idiot", that would be swell.

Red his post or yours? Fuckit, may as well do both.

[Big Dog]

Haven't read the whole thread but +1 for Gremlins post. Lay 4 of your cards on the table.
You want what bike?
Any extras?
Do you want finance?
Do you have form with this store? Yes, it makes a difference.

The fifth card in your hand is what you are prepared for in changeover cost.
Tell them a reasonable figure that is less than that. They might go for it. They might not and counter, haggle from there.
If your changeover is too rediculous they will not haggle as there will be fuck all margin in a sub 8k bike.
A lot of sub 8k bikes end up going out the door with only the gst more than commission on them just to keep inventory fresh if the bike you are buying has been sitting a long time.


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[Big Dog]

What is reasonable?
If both bikes have the same value on trademe they still need 1k to change hands to cover their costs, gst, valet, commission.
+orc if not already registered.

If you would pay 5 k on their bike on trade me and you think you can get 5k for yours. Start offering 1k to change but decide before you get there how much total you will go to.
Ps... as a general rule what you will get on trademe is x.
Reality is (( $x - 20%) - ~$100 fees) and needs to be weighted against lost opportunities while you sell.

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[Big Dog]

The advice is still sound. Cash doesn't make a difference any more as it still goes through the books and although the retailer won't pay the 2-3% fee they will have to pay staff to sit there counting it and doing the paper work, and more time (going to the bank) associated with banking it.

3% off 6k is under $200 and those faggots that talk 'cash money' will be expecting more than that off for their so awesome favour of paying you for your goods and services..... (paying for shit they want to buy with legal tender! OMERGERD! What a fucking favour!)

If you were to buy it for a 'legitimate' cash deal, as in not through their books, you could expect absolutely no warranty or acknowledgement that you've bought it from them if something were to go wrong, because technically you didn't...

Further, the point you miss on finance is that they WANT YOU to pay through finance if they get a kick back, so cash is no favour to them at all and there is no incentive for them to drop the price for cash. Comprehend?
Correct, add in the increased risk of having that much cash hanging around and it is any wonder cash is still acceptable.

If you take finance they can add in insurances. More kickbacks.
Breakdown cover. More kickbacks.

Cash buyers are statistically less likely to bring return business or their servicing.

The only incentive remaining for cash is definite sale. Today.

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[TheDemonLord]

The only incentive remaining for cash is definite sale. Today.

Which depending on the day can be a good bargaining chip.

I remember reading somewhere that EoM was a good time as sales staff are keen to add extra sales before the month ends.

[Hubris]

Forgive an ignorant question but when you say cash....do people mean non-financed eft-pos (where the vendor has to pay a % in service charge) or do people actually show up with 5-10-15K cash in hand?

[Akzle]

Forgive an ignorant question but when you say cash....do people mean non-financed eft-pos (where the vendor has to pay a % in service charge) or do people actually show up with 5-10-15K cash in hand?

srsly ???



((where ARE you from??))

[Tazz]

Forgive an ignorant question but when you say cash....do people mean non-financed eft-pos (where the vendor has to pay a % in service charge) or do people actually show up with 5-10-15K cash in hand?

Cash as in cash....as in cash in hand....

You can fit 15k in your pocket.

[Tazz]

It is nonsense to suggest you can not get a discount for cash I certainly did especially if dealers have old stock they want to get rid of.

:facepalm:

You've just said yourself they want to get rid of it, which is why they are bloody discounting it. It's not because you're paying cash, they'd discount it for any payment if they want the fucking thing gone!

[scott411]

cash means paying on the spot, being eftpos, cheque (if accepted, many shops will make it clear before you ride away) or bank transfer, or cold hard cash,
and as said above, dealers make money on finance deal, so the final price is not likely to be different if you are financing the difference, (pre the finance fees and interest)

dealers have to run a register for bikes in and out so likely the old school discount for cash, and put it off the books is not really possible,

as sad before, work on change over price, as thats what matters, it will likely be less than the difference if you sell your bike,

as for the margin on the 8k bike, after the assembly and PDI , the dealer is likely to make more money on the finance, insurance, and any gear they sells you, esp if the bike is part of a nationwide promotion

[Tazz]

If they were offering a discount for any payment though they would advertise it themselves at a discounted price would they not? The bike I got a discount on did not have a discounted sticker on it.

They wanted to get rid of the stock, from your own account, so why would it need a discount sticker to be motivated to discount it if that meant getting rid of it, which is what, from your own account, they wanted to do....?

Unless you got refused a discount for another payment, and they specifically said no but we will give it to you for blah blah blah if you pay cash, you are only bloody guessing anyway.

[jasonu]

So from what you are saying then if you are ever in a position to buy a bike for cash you will offer the advertised price because you believe cash discounts are impossible? The only thing I could see making getting a cash discount less likely than it used to be is the fact that many cities/towns in NZ only have one franchised dealer for each brand of bike.

If you can pay cash then buy privately. You will for sure get a better deal than buying from a dealer.

[Tazz]

The bike was 2 years old and brand new hence the reason why they would have discounted it.

Correct.
It was not because you were paying cash.

Now we're on the same page.

[Big Dog]

But paying by cash can also mean by cheque. If you have to pay with finance its always worthwhile to shop around for it too and if a cheaper deal can be got elsewere you can
become a cash buyer. It is nonsense to suggest you can not get a discount for cash I certainly did especially if dealers have old stock they want to get rid of.
Um. No it doesn't. It means leave your new bike here until the funds clear.

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[Big Dog]

Forgive an ignorant question but when you say cash....do people mean non-financed eft-pos (where the vendor has to pay a % in service charge) or do people actually show up with 5-10-15K cash in hand?
When selling cars I had someone turn up to buy some cars carrying black sacks of folding stuff. Then I had to take it to the bank in a brief case.
I will never know if I would have made it to the bank if I had known there was north of $100k in that case.
I think I would. But I will never "know" and neither will my employer.

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[AllanB]

All about the change over $ - on your example wanting 5 for a trade on a 6k bike leaves little room for the dealer to deal unless they are dead sure they can flick off your trade for a nice profit. If you are lucky the $6k bike has been sitting there for too long and they think they can move your trade easier.

My recent trade/purchase went bloody well - factory discount off the new bike and a very good honest trade value on mine - change over worked for me so two happy parties. Bonus for the shop they had the trade sold and gone in less than a week. Win win.


Also - don't be a twat arguing over a few hundred if you really want the new ride - maybe try for a free labor on the next service or something like that.

[Hubris]

Hey mate, appreciate you trying to help - you may need to hit up some tech support, may be something wrong with your keyboard. Even though you're trying to answer my questions, all the rest of us are seeing is the same word over and over.:girlfight:


srsly ???

((where ARE you from??))

[Akzle]

Hey mate, appreciate you trying to help - you may need to hit up some tech support, may be something wrong with your keyboard. Even though you're trying to answer my questions, all the rest of us are seeing is the same word over and over.:girlfight:

srsly ?

[jellywrestler]

I know how dealers work - they will offer me as little as possible for my trade-in bike, and expect me to pay full price on their for sale motorcycle.


.

if you already know how they work then why the fuck are you coming on here to ask anyone else?

what do you do for work, and what happens when a customer comes in with an attitude like that whether you're on the shop floor or swinging a hammer to build their home, earning a fair dollar how does that sort of attitude sit in your head?

[jellywrestler]

You with be able to negotiate the best discount if you pay cash. What a lot of people forget when trading in is the dealer is required to add GST on the bike which further depresses the trade in value they offer you and on a $5000 bike thats $750. The last time I bought a new bike I kept my old one due to the likely low offer from a dealer and was able to get $2000 off for cash being a brand new run out model bike.

cash is often less value to a dealer, they often get some sort of commision from a finance company, where cash can work is it's a sale not subject to you selling your bike etc

[jellywrestler]

Fuckin spastic yourself. I was responding to the advise you were giving to OTHERS which demonstrated financial illiteracy in my book.

you're a spelling spastic, it's advice not advise, also a wanker too.

[caseye]

you're a spelling spastic, it's advice not advise, also a wanker too.

I concur wholeheartedly!

[Gremlin]

if you already know how they work then why the fuck are you coming on here to ask anyone else?
I'm starting to wonder why threads are being started like... can I negotiate? I mean, it pretty much boils down to two alternatives:

Option 1
You: Hey, can we negotiate on that price?
Dealer: No, fuck off!
You: *leave*

Option 2:
You: Hey, can we negotiate on that price?
Dealer: Sure
You: *start negotiating*

I mean... is it really that hard? Either side can say no at any point, but if you're entering negotiations you're interested. They want to sell bikes. Ta-da, fucken negotiate. :wacko:

Sure, you don't HAVE to negotiate. Pay full asking. Dealer love you long time. :love:

[Hubris]

I suspect the real question behind the query is one of "What is the best strategy for negotiating the best price" - and unfortunately there is no single answer to that. It depends on the situation....your bike....the bike you are buying...the ages and values of everything....the personality and skills of the dealer and yourself. There are far too many factors in order to be able to lay out a 'best strategy' that will apply most of the time....beyond expressing what you wish to accomplish and being reasonable....not immediately accepting the first proposal but being willing to have a discussion and compromise - without being unreasonable or expecting the dealer to make no money on the deal.

[The End]

I suspect the real question behind the query is one of "What is the best strategy for negotiating the best price"

^

Now can we end all the rif raff and nonsense? :spanking::Police:

[Gremlin]

I suspect the real question behind the query is one of "What is the best strategy for negotiating the best price" - and unfortunately there is no single answer to that. It depends on the situation....your bike....the bike you are buying...the ages and values of everything....the personality and skills of the dealer and yourself. There are far too many factors in order to be able to lay out a 'best strategy' that will apply most of the time....beyond expressing what you wish to accomplish and being reasonable....not immediately accepting the first proposal but being willing to have a discussion and compromise - without being unreasonable or expecting the dealer to make no money on the deal.
The best deal is one where both parties walk away happy. The dealer isn't an enemy to screw down. They don't have to sell to me, I don't have to buy from them.

But one tip when buying anything. Be prepared to walk away. Don't set your heart on it and buy it at any cost.

[R650R]

The best deal is one where both parties walk away happy. The dealer isn't an enemy to screw down. They don't have to sell to me, I don't have to buy from them.



That's ok in akld or Hamilton/wgtn where you have multiple options. But in the provinces if you are buying new each dealer has a defacto monopoly on one or more brands.
And your going to have to get it serviced by them for warranty too. What annoys me is where they say they don't take trades but you've seen other trades parked in their showroom floor often....

Really I think the only time your likely to get decent trade is if your buying a new bike every year ort second year and your trading it in at the place you bought from and got it regularly serviced at.

[Gremlin]

That's ok in akld or Hamilton/wgtn where you have multiple options. But in the provinces if you are buying new each dealer has a defacto monopoly on one or more brands.
And your going to have to get it serviced by them for warranty too. What annoys me is where they say they don't take trades but you've seen other trades parked in their showroom floor often....
I've bought the BMW from Mt Maunganui because it was the only one in the country of the spec I was looking for. I was still prepared to walk away if the numbers didn't stack up as there would always be another. It's serviced in Auckland, but I'd travel if I had to (like to get the suspension serviced I travel to New Plymouth every 1.5 years ish).

I bought my van from Chch as there were very few in the country of the spec I wanted, and the others I looked at didn't pass viewing. Essentially, to get the right item, I'll travel if I have to.

[Tazz]

I'll travel if I have to.

And it's not like NZ is that bloody big anyway.

[Big Dog]

And it's not like NZ is that bloody big anyway.

Aye, but it all depends on how flexible your bosses are.

When I was buying my last bike I set myself a limit of a 2 hour drive but then I had to take a pregnant wife who was due any minute to go to see them and I wanted to limit the number of trips to going tiki touring all over the countryside.

The internet is wonderful at shrinking distances but you would be surprised how many muppets on trademe have 5 year old photos that are no longer representative of current condition.
Nothing beats seeing it in the flesh.

[jellywrestler]

I suspect the real question behind the query is one of "What is the best strategy for negotiating the best price" - and unfortunately there is no single answer to that. It depends on the situation....your bike....the bike you are buying...the ages and values of everything....the personality and skills of the dealer and yourself. There are far too many factors in order to be able to lay out a 'best strategy' that will apply most of the time....beyond expressing what you wish to accomplish and being reasonable....not immediately accepting the first proposal but being willing to have a discussion and compromise - without being unreasonable or expecting the dealer to make no money on the deal.

it also depends on the desirability of the trade in, it may be easier to move than the bike they already have so that will have a huge impact on the whole deal.

[AllanB]

I'm starting to wonder why threads are being started like... can I negotiate? I mean, it pretty much boils down to two alternatives:

Option 1
You: Hey, can we negotiate on that price?
Dealer: No, fuck off!
You: *leave*

Option 2:
You: Hey, can we negotiate on that price?
Dealer: Sure
You: *start negotiating*

I mean... is it really that hard? Either side can say no at any point, but if you're entering negotiations you're interested. They want to sell bikes. Ta-da, fucken negotiate. :wacko:

Sure, you don't HAVE to negotiate. Pay full asking. Dealer love you long time. :love:



1 & 2 are pretty much it.

Recently looking for a car for my daughter - I walked away on many non-negotiable ones. Each phoned me up after wanting to 'talk' and were rejected. Nobody pays list price on a 10 year plus used car FFS.

[AllanB]

Just remembered I purchased two bikes over the phone from a Dunedin dealer some years back - second deal was trading back my first purchase from them on a new Hornet 900. Shame they went out of business. Retrospectively probably because of the epic deals they were doing!