Getting started with racing?

[tigertim20]

Hope I can get some direction from the racing crew on here.

Im looking to get started racing, but not sure where to start.

Ive recently had birthday that has reminded me that Im getting a bit old, and since Ive been hooked on trackdays for the last few years, Ive been frustrated at the lack of regular have a go type events, so Im looking into going racing, and have started looking around for bikes that might make good trackbikes.

Im a competent track rider, but by no means the fastest out there, and I've no illusions of winning championships, I just want to get out there and do it.

What I dont know is, what are the restrictions on various classes, i.e. eligibility of machinery and mods?

where would I go to find that kind of information?

[liljegren]

How about Post Classics, cheap way into racing, real friendly bunch, not intimidating, and loads of opportunities to run I bought a GS550, fully ready to race (its for sale actually), and it's been reliable and fun all the way. I was a newbie to racing mid 50's!

[tigertim20]

How about Post Classics, cheap way into racing, real friendly bunch, not intimidating, and loads of opportunities to run I bought a GS550, fully ready to race (its for sale actually), and it's been reliable and fun all the way. I was a newbie to racing mid 50's!

could be an option i guess.i suppose for a start i need to find out what classes are run, and what bikes are eligible to enter each class, as i do have some preferences to the types of bike id prefer to ride

[Yow Ling]

Get an EX300 and ride in the new Lightweight Production class, Kevin Goddard has a very nice one for sale, or buy a wreck and build one up

[Drew]

What are you riding on the track now?

[tigertim20]

What are you riding on the track now?

my every day road bike, '08 R1.

I hold myself back a lot though because its my pide and joy and I have an aversion to destroying my baby.

I want a dedicated tack bike that I won't have a sentimental attachment to

[Crasherfromwayback]

I want a dedicated tack bike that I won't have a sentimental attachment to

Gotta walk before you can run and all that shit. Start out in THE most competitive small class. Go from there.

[Gremlin]

Sorta two ways to look at it, from my point of view.

You either really want to get into it. Speak to your local club, something around 250cc (light weight production class kinda thing). The machines are very even so it comes down to racecraft. They're also cheap to fix up when you make mistakes, come off etc and the speed isn't as great. You'll learn racecraft which will be handy when you step to a bigger, more powerful class. No need (and often not allowed) to spend heaps on suspension, tuning etc.

Or, you kinda just want to get out there, enjoy the track, the day. More participation than getting on the podium, that kinda thing. Then look for something mid capacity. Auckland has clubmans which is run what you have, with some restrictions to stop people robbing it. It's also seen as a stepping point, so you can dip your toes in the water, see what you want etc. However, racecraft would be better learnt amongst the actual racers. See if your local club has something like that.

[busadayz]

Check out Hamilton MCC winter series coming up at Taupo First round 8th May. They pretty much will have a class for whatever machine you want to race.
Great way to start racing. If you are keen race your R1 in the clubmans class. I know its your pride and joy, but may save money on forking out for another bike. But otherwise, there is plenty of machinery ready to race out there. Best not to get too hung up on having the latest and greatest on the grid, because no matter what you ride or what class, its a whole heap of fun.

[Grumph]

Get an EX300 and ride in the new Lightweight Production class, Kevin Goddard has a very nice one for sale, or buy a wreck and build one up

If you are indeed in Dunedin, this is the way to go. This class is well supported at all the circuits within easy reach of you. A season or two in this and then you can look at where you want to go. Plus the bike will hold resale value.

[Drew]

My only advice. Avoid 'clubmans' like the fucken plague it is. Squids with no fucking clue, learning terrible habits from slightly faster squids.

[Autech]

I started racing a year ago on a 1988 VFR400. Bike was good as it gave me plenty of track time due to being able to cross enter on a given weekend in two classes. Track time is key to learning and it worked well for that. I have now sold it and bought a bucket as the bucket/development/production classes down here are really competitive with lots of racing and overtaking, something that I wasn't getting to do too much on my vfr.


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[mr bucketracer]

you could man up and race the hard mans class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr-pvMD0h7s

[tigertim20]

thanks for the advice so far folks.

Seems like the first step is to make contact with the local clubs, I am in Dunedin, is OMCC the only club that goes racing down this way? I looked on their website and couldnt see much about racing, apart from a bethunes gully event coming up.

I wont have a whole lot of coin to spend on a bike, so Im realistic in the sense that Ill be getting out there and seeing how I go, mostly just for fun. If I do ok then I might consider putting more money into later model machinery and getting realy competitive, but right now Im at the "I really want to get out there and have a go' stage.

[Autech]

thanks for the advice so far folks.

Seems like the first step is to make contact with the local clubs, I am in Dunedin, is OMCC the only club that goes racing down this way? I looked on their website and couldnt see much about racing, apart from a bethunes gully event coming up.

I wont have a whole lot of coin to spend on a bike, so Im realistic in the sense that Ill be getting out there and seeing how I go, mostly just for fun. If I do ok then I might consider putting more money into later model machinery and getting realy competitive, but right now Im at the "I really want to get out there and have a go' stage.

Well being in Dunedin you a smack tween two tracks. OMCC so far as I know only hold the occasional hill climb and track days at levels. Plenty of racing goes on at Ruapuna, Levels and Teretonga though so it matters not which club you join, just that you are a member of one. I would suggest a reliable pre '89 bike like I ran which can be cross entered into (for want of a better word) 'modern' classes. That way you can do CAMS, MCI, OMCC and the whatever the local invercarrrrrrgil club is events.


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[sidecar bob]

I'm surprised people are making suggestions about What to buy without knowing wether you're 50kg or 150kg.
Clearly you're pretty at home on a thou, so getting a 300 might be a complete yawn fest by comparison.
My suggestion based on several factors would be a pre 89 FZR1000.
First of all, you're already used to bikes that size, so no drama there,
Two, it's a Yamaha, you're ok with them it seems,
Three, they are competitive in pre 89 with little more than a shock, a pipe, a full service & tune & some new tyres & pads.
Four, when running in a period class, you no longer have to update your bike every so often, as it's locked in at 1989, so you can spend your spare cash on bling, a nicer tow vehicle, beer etc.
Five, it's a very popular class, & run at most events with a great bunch of guys.

[Yow Ling]

I'm surprised people are making suggestions about What to buy without knowing wether you're 50kg or 150kg.
Clearly you're pretty at home on a thou, so getting a 300 might be a complete yawn fest by comparison.
My suggestion based on several factors would be a pre 89 FZR1000.
First of all, you're already used to bikes that size, so no drama there,
Two, it's a Yamaha, you're ok with them it seems,
Three, they are competitive in pre 89 with little more than a shock, a pipe, a full service & tune & some new tyres & pads.
Four, when running in a period class, you no longer have to update your bike every so often, as it's locked in at 1989, so you can spend your spare cash on bling, a nicer tow vehicle, beer etc.
Five, it's a very popular class, & run at most events with a great bunch of guys.

I think down here its run with clubmans at MCI , Cams have a seperate class for it

[jellywrestler]

Clearly you're pretty at home on a thou, so getting a 300 might be a complete yawn fest by comparison.


ask Dennis Charlett, superbike one season then a 390 ktm the next,

[5ive]

ask Dennis Charlett, superbike one season then a 390 ktm the next,

He's not 150kg though, so would not find it a yawn fest.

[Yow Ling]

Come to a meeting, there is one next weekend at Ruapuna, if you ask around you could get a ride on a ninja in training, get your arse kicked by some 14 year olds, Buckets RGs and Ninjas run in the same class. If you are on a budget this is the place to start, most of the older guys dont move up from here, the competition is plenty good

[sidecar bob]

Come to a meeting, there is one next weekend at Ruapuna, if you ask around you could get a ride on a ninja in training, get your arse kicked by some 14 year olds, Buckets RGs and Ninjas run in the same class. If you are on a budget this is the place to start, most of the older guys dont move up from here, the competition is plenty good

Herein lies another problem, the social side, which , by time, is 90 percent of a race meeting. Do you want to hang with a bunch of spoilt children with attitude that think they are fast because they can beat an old man, or a bunch of good old boys that pay for their own racing that know how to share their expierence & stuff & enjoy a beer & a good yarn afterwards.
For fucks sake don't go the bucket route, unless you're a social misfit weirdo that's scared of real bikes. Sorry, the bucket guys were expecting that from me, & I didn't want to disappoint them.;)

[Grumph]

Herein lies another problem, the social side, which , by time, is 90 percent of a race meeting. Do you want to hang with a bunch of spoilt children with attitude that think they are fast because they can beat an old man, or a bunch of good old boys that pay for their own racing that know how to share their expierence & stuff & enjoy a beer & a good yarn afterwards.
For fucks sake don't go the bucket route, unless you're a social misfit weirdo that's scared of real bikes. Sorry, the bucket guys were expecting that from me, & I didn't want to disappoint them.;)

I can assure you that the SI scene has little in common with the NI bucket scene you're familiar with.
Bunch of mainly nice guys, many of whom run bikes in the classes already mentioned. Because all bucket racing down here is on the big tracks they're socialising with all the other classes at every meeting....

I stick by the lightweight production recommendation. It'll teach more about racecraft than running at your own speed in pre 89. And in the last 5 seasons i've seen 3 guys buy FZR1000's, come out a few times and either fall off or get disheartened when they realise the bike is better than they are...

[ellipsis]

Herein lies another problem, the social side, which , by time, is 90 percent of a race meeting. Do you want to hang with a bunch of spoilt children with attitude that think they are fast because they can beat an old man, or a bunch of good old boys that pay for their own racing that know how to share their expierence & stuff & enjoy a beer & a good yarn afterwards.
For fucks sake don't go the bucket route, unless you're a social misfit weirdo that's scared of real bikes. Sorry, the bucket guys were expecting that from me, & I didn't want to disappoint them.;)


...tongue in cheek, maybe?...the Bucket, Development or CAMS Junior Clubman classes here in Chch, Canterbury, SI is a little top heavy in older, experienced very clever and socially apt souls really and many the youthful types are really fantastic kids who bring a lot of life and skill to our on and off track parties...

[ellipsis]

...maybe 'socially apt', is a bit of an oxymoron when it comes to motorcycle racers...

[Autech]

...maybe 'socially apt', is a bit of an oxymoron when it comes to motorcycle racers...

The chch bucket scene is pretty social. Thats why I wanted in truth be told, that and it is cheaper to buy a competitive bike capable of running at the front than in pre '89. I do have a nc30 in the shed which I am planning to run in pre 89, but for now I look to buckets to teach me racecraft and corner speed :)




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[Drew]

Herein lies another problem, the social side, which , by time, is 90 percent of a race meeting. Do you want to hang with a bunch of spoilt children with attitude that think they are fast because they can beat an old man, or a bunch of good old boys that pay for their own racing that know how to share their expierence & stuff & enjoy a beer & a good yarn afterwards.
For fucks sake don't go the bucket route, unless you're a social misfit weirdo that's scared of real bikes. Sorry, the bucket guys were expecting that from me, & I didn't want to disappoint them.;)
I dunno how much of what the bucket fags say is taking the piss, but I've heard it's quite clear down south that it's mostly tongue in cheek.

I've pissed nearly all of them off (north and south) with my trolling at one point or another, but the sick cunts continue to offer help. A couple obviously can't stand me which isn't exactly rare, so it can't be all bad.

Still wouldn't race them in earnest if ya paid me...but no one likes losing.

[Drew]

I do have a nc30 in the shed which I am planning to run in pre 89, but for now I look to buckets to teach me racecraft and corner speed :)




Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkPart it out. Uncompetitive in any class these days.

[Kickaha]

...tongue in cheek, maybe?...
No, he's just a cunt (except for when he's going out of his way to help me sort my van while I am stuck in foreign lands)

A couple obviously can't stand me
To be fair that's not just confined to the guys from the bucket class

[Voltaire]

Herein lies bunch of good old boys that pay for their own racing that know how to share their expierence & stuff & enjoy a beer & a good yarn afterwards.


Yeah it was good catching up at HD and talking about my lawn mower purchase.

I started off with Buckets and after getting my arse kicked by above 14 year olds got my classic bike together and have been doing it for 4 years.

Fortunately there are not too many 14 year olds who can spring 6K for a TT gearbox, 4K for a set of crankcases and so on. ( that's Nortons, I run a BMW with a $250 Trade Me engine):innocent:

[tigertim20]

aha plenty of opinions I see!

CLubmans had been something I had thought about, but didnt know what the rules etc were.

Im not keen in buckets, and Im most familiar with sports bikes 600-1000cc, so, if there was a class where I could go out and run something like that it would probably be my preference. Im not concerned about whether I come first by a mile, or last by a lap, Im more interested in giving it a nudge, having FUN, and learning to go faster (than myself, rather than faster than anyone else)

Ive seen some fairly cheap gsxr / early R1 and ZX10's, as well as a few cheap R6's that I thought would make great trackbikes, but the question I guess is whether there is a decent class I can ride my preferred kind of bike in. Do Cams has classes that might accommodate something like this?

It sounds like some have a fairly dim view of clubmans - which I guess I will have to consider. Im not adverse to getting some coaching either - and I did receive a PM about this fro someone yesterday with a recommendation.

Since I live in Dunedin, Id prefer to be able to race at Levels and teretonga, for the sake of travel distance, and the fact that Ive done trackdays at both, though I would love to ride ruapuna if / when I get the chance too.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ive seen some fairly cheap gsxr / early R1 and ZX10's, .

Personally, I think it's a mistake lots of people make, trying to start out racing the big boys. Yes I know you've done lots of time on big bores, but racing 'em is a diff kettle of fish. Honestly, often the slowest bikes can be the most fun. As in the Ninja 300's or whatever they're doing now. Hard out racing with fuck all between the bikes, sorts the men from the boys.

[Autech]

Personally, I think it's a mistake lots of people make, trying to start out racing the big boys. Yes I know you've done lots of time on big bores, but racing 'em is a diff kettle of fish. Honestly, often the slowest bikes can be the most fun. As in the Ninja 300's or whatever they're doing now. Hard out racing with fuck all between the bikes, sorts the men from the boys.

Case in point was where I finished ahead of a Ducati 1198, with slicks and tyres warmers on my 1988 VFR400 with sport touring tyres on Ruapuna full track in a clubmans race. Better off riding something smaller and getting the most out of it than something faster which you are terrified of.

Only class you will be able to run a 600 or thou in CAMS is in the modern class which usually attracts a few quick riders. For MCI you would most likely have to race clubmans before they let you out with the big boys.



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[Grumph]

Part it out. Uncompetitive in any class these days.

see now, that points up a major difference north v south....At several meetings in a season, CAMS run a pre 89 F3 class - which gets a reasonable and growing entry. It's well contested by some good riders too. And a well ridden NC30 is still capable of doing very well.
On the other hand, if you've got to run one in an all-in up to pre 89 class race incl thou's, nah, you'd be very tempted to walk away...
And we've got the short technical circuits to make this racing worthwhile.

[jellywrestler]

Part it out. Uncompetitive in any class these days.

clearly you haven't been near a post classic race track recently, i'd put money on it that it's the best bike one can buy for racing in pre89 and i think i actually go to more races than you and actually watch them.

[jellywrestler]

see now, that points up a major difference north v south....At several meetings in a season, CAMS run a pre 89 F3 class - which gets a reasonable and growing entry. It's well contested by some good riders too. And a well ridden NC30 is still capable of doing very well.
On the other hand, if you've got to run one in an all-in up to pre 89 class race incl thou's, nah, you'd be very tempted to walk away...
And we've got the short technical circuits to make this racing worthwhile.

not quite, there's some seriously quick North Island ones too.

[Autech]

a well ridden NC30 is still capable of doing very well.

Fuck, that part rules me out! I do remember a certain Phil Muir cleaning up at Methven a few years in a row on a NC30 (sexy bike).
My NC24 would have done ok if I could have put better tyres and rider on board :D Engine did ok with my 50 something kgs on board.

With our B track I imagine a 400 could win pre '89 outright vs some of the seven fiddys and thous. Horses for courses.

Back on topic, what classes do they run regularly down at Teretonga? Any post classic go on down there?


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[malcy25]

Part it out. Uncompetitive in any class these days.
can someone tell Jason Hulme that.....whenever I se him up here he's motoring.

[jellywrestler]

can someone tell Jason Hulme that.....whenever I se him up here he's motoring.

it's just Drewpy off his meds again and talking shorthand.

[RGVforme]

it's just Drewpy off his meds again and talking shorthand.


:clap: :killingme

[sidecar bob]

All the opinions on here are valid & come from people that are doing it or have done it.
In about '86 I was riding a Katana1100 on the road (still have it) & I was about to buy an ex crashed GPZ500s to go racing on, I mentioned the impending purchase to Robbie Dean, he promptly talked me out of it & for the same price, sold me his retired race bike, the third GSXR1100 ever built, disassembled in boxes.
He watched me put it back together & then helped me hone my racecraft on it.
The kickback was that it was similar to, but better than the Katana, as a result, my road riding ended up in a class of its own, even recently, the motor reconditioned that worked at the bottom of the third ave hill back then asked me how it was possible to ride the Katana down the hill sideways, with the front wheel in the air.
The point I'm making is, that if this chum wants to get better on his road r1, & I think that's a major bonus of racing, then the expierence may not come from riding a bucket, he needs a big ole bucking bronco, not a child's bike.

[mr bucketracer]

All the opinions on here are valid & come from people that are doing it or have done it.
In about '86 I was riding a Katana1100 on the road (still have it) & I was about yo buy an ex crashed GPZ500s to go racing on, I mentioned the impending purchase to Robbie Dean, he promptly talked me out of it & for the same price, sold me his retired race bike, the third GSXR1100 ever built, disassembled in boxes.
He watched me put it back together & then helped me hone my racecraft on it.
The kickback was that it was similar to, but better than the Katana, as a result, my road riding ended up in a class of its own, even recently, the motor reconditioned that worked at the bottom of the third ave hill back then asked me how it was possible to ride the Katana down the hill sideways, with the front wheel in the air.
The point I'm making is, that if this chum wants to get better on his road r1, & I think that's a major bonus of racing, then the expierence may not come from riding a bucket, he needs a big ole bucking bronco, not a child's bike.you under underestimate what a bucket can do for you

[sidecar bob]

you under underestimate what a bucket can do for you

Do they have 160hp, do 260kmh & stop like a full wine barrel?
Can they do tyre smoking drifts on the throttle? I think you underestimate a big banger too.
Personally I struggle with a small bike, I prefer the largeness of a full sized bike under me, they feel less likely to spit me out at no notice like a small bike does.
I'm sure tigertim will have a preference & make his own mind up based on what he probably already kind of wants & what he reads.

[Grumph]

Do they have 160hp, do 260kmh & stop like a full wine barrel?
Can they do tyre smoking drifts on the throttle? I think you underestimate a big banger too.

Next time you see Robbie, ask if he actually enjoyed punting his last GSXR1100 around levels.....

[Voltaire]

Is Robbie Dean the guy who used to race a Norton Commando?
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5042/5222237725_e617d266d4_b.jpg

[old rig]

Is Robbie Dean the guy who used to race a Norton Commando?
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5042/5222237725_e617d266d4_b.jpg
I have seen that bike somewhere before 😈

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[Yow Ling]

At Methven on saturday, buckets were doing 39 sec laps , superbikes around 36 sec, bring that 1100 bob

[Drew]

clearly you haven't been near a post classic race track recently, i'd put money on it that it's the best bike one can buy for racing in pre89 and i think i actually go to more races than you and actually watch them.

The junior class is filling up with 600s, 400s will be useless in no time.

A great rider will always be able to do well when outclassed for machinery. But it's pretty stupid to encourage someone to start out on inferior machinery, since great riders are pretty fucken few and far between.

Also, the VFR/RVF is slow compared to the inline 400s in all.

[Drew]

At Methven on saturday, buckets were doing 39 sec laps , superbikes around 36 sec, bring that 1100 bob

One of those classes was exciting to watch though.

[Kickaha]

One of those classes was exciting to watch though.

Close racing in any class is better to watch regardless of what capacity the bikes are, that's why I used to watch 125 and 250 GP over the 500/1000 class

[Drew]

Close racing in any class is better to watch regardless of what capacity the bikes are, that's why I used to watch 125 and 250 GP over the 500/1000 class

Rather watch a single superbike tie itself in knots round a street circuit than a gaggle of buckets, no matter how close to each other the fags get.

[sidecar bob]

you under underestimate what a bucket can do for you

I had a think about what my RS125 Aprilia taught me to do with my RSV1000R
There's probably quite a bit of merit in what you said there.

[Autech]

you under underestimate what a bucket can do for you

Fact: I knocked 5 seconds on my best time on my VFR the first race out after racing a bucket for the first time. They teach a lot.

Drew, we have a pre '89 f3 class in cams, so the 600s and thous run often run in a separate class entirely. Which is lucky for them on the b track :D


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[Kickaha]

Rather watch a single superbike tie itself in knots round a street circuit than a gaggle of buckets, no matter how close to each other the fags get.

Well I guess you couldn't make it in either class so watching is probably what you do best

[sidecar bob]

At Methven on saturday, buckets were doing 39 sec laps , superbikes around 36 sec, bring that 1100 bob

Sounds like a children's track for children's bikes to be fair though:bleh:

[Kickaha]

Sounds like a children's track for children's bikes to be fair though:bleh:

Cant comment on Invergiggle but Methven, Nelson and Greymouth are narrower and tighter circuits than the Northern street circuits

[sidecar bob]

Cant comment on Invergiggle but Methven, Nelson and Greymouth are narrower and tighter circuits than the Northern street circuits

I just looked at the lap time & the fact ive never heard of a V8 Supercar round being run there.
You never hear bucket people bragging how close they are to the big bikes on real circuits.

[jellywrestler]

One of those classes was exciting to watch though. yip, and hands down every race it was the buckets by a long way, just go to mylaps and have a look for yourself.


I had a think about what my RS125 Aprilia taught me to do with my RSV1000R
There's probably quite a bit of merit in what you said there. there were at least three current or last three year new zealand champions there in the bucket class.


Well I guess you couldn't make it in either class so watching is probably what you do best no, he clearly can't take anything in watching given his recent comments on several fronts...


Sounds like a children's track for children's bikes to be fair though:bleh:
yip, they had three classic sidecars there for the first time....

[Drew]

Well I guess you couldn't make it in either class so watching is probably what you do best

Must have missed the trophy room at your pad last time I was there.

[tigertim20]

ahaha well this has been entertaining!.

Looks like I have a bit more thinking to do. I will contact local clubs and discuss what classes etc they have and go from there.

Still not convinced one way or the other on a bike type - I will have to consider this a bit ore after talking to local groups I guess.

Thanks for the input folks!

[Kickaha]

Must have missed the trophy room at your pad last time I was there.

You can't have looked very hard I got that stuff stashed all over the place

[Autech]

ahaha well this has been entertaining!.


One of the most fiercely debated topics in biking is the big vs small and whether one needs to work their way up in size.
Aside from Drew being Drew everyone has made some valid points about pros and cons.

Good luck deciding, hopefully see you at Levels some time


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[sidecar bob]

yip, they had three classic sidecars there for the first time....

That figures, I dropped my mrs off at the last meeting & headed on to rainbows end. It seemed the more grown up thing to do.

[bigreddog]

ahaha well this has been entertaining!.

Looks like I have a bit more thinking to do. I will contact local clubs and discuss what classes etc they have and go from there.

Still not convinced one way or the other on a bike type - I will have to consider this a bit ore after talking to local groups I guess.

Thanks for the input folks!

PM me for race bikes I have two for sale that may suit you

[tigertim20]

THREAD DREDGE.

Im now within spitting distance of buying a bike to race. Money is there, and Im fizzing to get something.

Having re-read everything on here several times, I have decided a few things, and have a couple of questions.

Ive decided I dont want to go into buckets.
Ive also decided that going onto a litre bike is not likely to be the best benefit to me.

So, I have a low budget (very low, Im not buying anything late model here!)

Im thinking about options like ex250, cbr / vfr / zxr 400's, of which there are a few floating around - I see that several are 1989 models, which made me wonder, is it worthwhile getting something like a 1989 inline 4 400, and racing in pre '89 and another class as well? - my thinking here is that if I have a bike thats rideable in two classes, Ill get more race time = more learning time = more improvement.

or maybe a 600. I dont get real turned on by the 650 twins though - but a compelling argument might sway me.

SO my questions are: what bikes might be able to be cross entered in different classes? -

I dont have the money for an ex300, but could go for a 250 - are those classes fairly supported in my area?

Im interested in mostly racing at levels and teretonga, and the odd ruapuna when I can get that far away.

FWIW - im 6 feet, and fluctuate between 70kg, and 90 kg, depending on whether im in camp or not, if that influences suggestions for a good bike.

Ive got about 20 bikes on various watchlists and I need to make a choice!

[Grumph]

Yes... the F3 pre 89's would suit you and can be competitive still in prolite - the F3 equivalent.
BUT they are high maintenance, high precision instruments. Getting the right one is important.
Knowing what you're doing on them is even more important.

A pre 89 600 would probably be better except that your second class would be clubmans....

Depends what's run at Teretonga and how they break up the classes there.

[tigertim20]

Yes... the F3 pre 89's would suit you and can be competitive still in prolite - the F3 equivalent.
BUT they are high maintenance, high precision instruments. Getting the right one is important.
Knowing what you're doing on them is even more important.

A pre 89 600 would probably be better except that your second class would be clubmans....

Depends what's run at Teretonga and how they break up the classes there.

aside from the usual normal mechanical stuff like fluid changes, regular inspection of drivetrain, suspension etc, what other bits are likely to to require 'high' maintenance?

Im fairly mechanical, and do my own servicing on road bikes. Eager to learn a bit more if theres much race - specific stuff.

For f3 pre '89 stuff, are there models that are 'better' for any reason, or that respond well to any fettling - as allowed within the rules?

[mossy1200]

BIKE that tt20 likes

This I noticed a couple of days ago.
Could be worth enquiry.

[Grumph]

aside from the usual normal mechanical stuff like fluid changes, regular inspection of drivetrain, suspension etc, what other bits are likely to to require 'high' maintenance?

Im fairly mechanical, and do my own servicing on road bikes. Eager to learn a bit more if theres much race - specific stuff.

For f3 pre '89 stuff, are there models that are 'better' for any reason, or that respond well to any fettling - as allowed within the rules?

Oh yes....
For a start, most originally came with 18in rear wheels. The yamaha, suzuki, kawasaki and the IL4 Hondas are fairly easy to do 17's for but not so the V4 hondas...
Cams can be a problem if you're serious. There were never very many sets of race cams around for any of them.
Rods and pistons again a problem, solvable with money...The V4's in particular need custom pistons to raise compression as you can't cut the heads.
Many have been blown up over the years, anything you buy now may be built up from surviving bits....
Cases are getting tired, in some examples, barrels are now hard to find in good nick. Pistons likewise. Ignitions can be dodgy.

In theory if you're doing pre 89 F3 you should keep to 400cc. In practice, I really don't know how many of the "F3" bikes are actually 450cc.

If you do look at an F3 pre 89, I'd want to see receipts - and ask who last built it. Speak to them if possible.

[Drew]

Modern ish 600. Take a plug lead off and put a resister over the injector plug for the same slug.

Run it back on 4 from time to time, the full time when ya wanna step up to F2.

[sharky]

I run a 1989 zxr400/444 and have done for last ten odd years. I wouldn't describe it as high maintenance. Plenty of parts still around if you know where to look. Can be raced (at or near the front of the field) at any race meeting in the country. No other machine would be that versatile - so yeah great for track time.

[Grumph]

I run a 1989 zxr400/444 and have done for last ten odd years. I wouldn't describe it as high maintenance. Plenty of parts still around if you know where to look. Can be raced (at or near the front of the field) at any race meeting in the country. No other machine would be that versatile - so yeah great for track time.

I agree broadly with what you say. The problem the OP has in the SI is that the same rolling chassis have been through many owners - and many engines.
Finding one with a one owner for 10 year history like yours is improbable.
Even finding a good 400 road bike and converting it is now very hard.
Last time I was talking to Andy Bolwell he was saying it's getting harder to put a good one together.
Personally, I won't work on them now unless someone comes to me with an open ended budget....and I'd be reluctant even then.

[Mental Trousers]

Modern ish 600. Take a plug lead off and put a resister over the injector plug for the same slug.

Run it back on 4 from time to time, the full time when ya wanna step up to F2.

The resister only works with the CBRs. However, there's other ways to do it with GSXRs, R6s etc.

The 450 triples go really well. If you leave the engine stock they get 6+ years of racing without a rebuild so maintenance is just consumables and valve clearances. Second hand tyres are plentiful and cheap, as are aftermarket bits.

[Drew]

The resister only works with the CBRs. However, there's other ways to do it with GSXRs, R6s etc.

The 450 triples go really well. If you leave the engine stock they get 6+ years of racing without a rebuild so maintenance is just consumables and valve clearances. Second hand tyres are plentiful and cheap, as are aftermarket bits.
Why does the resistor only work on the CBR?

Tricking the ECU into thinking it's pulsing the injector is all you're doing. The same can be done to the coil wires if the ECU is clever and goes into limp mode if it's running on three. I only know of cars that do that though.

[Mental Trousers]

Why does the resistor only work on the CBR?

Tricking the ECU into thinking it's pulsing the injector is all you're doing. The same can be done to the coil wires if the ECU is clever and goes into limp mode if it's running on three. I only know of cars that do that though.

The CBR is the only one of the 600's that looks for resistance, the others look for different behaviour typical of an inductor, ie characteristics that change over time.

[malcy25]

I'm with Drew and Shane on the viability of a 450/3 out of a 600. I think it has a good easy reliable push button solution that will ensure good miles at the circuit rather than working hours on something. That holds a lot of merit, believe me. Nothing worse than taking a broken bike home after it's popped something at the circuit, frustrating as hell.

I thought about doing the 450 conversion to a R6 or like, as an addition to my current high maintenance but high excitement "race stable". But in the end I went for an Ex300 thinking it will after 30+ years of racing still teach me lots (and it does!). I just about fell off it I was laughing so hard the first time I rode it. I'm not worried about the lack of straight line speed (lol, 35hp and me also at about 90kg currently)- it's all about corner entry and mid corner speed and how much I can convince myself how fast you can actually go 9and the bar is bloody high!). Last meeting I was just inside the top 1/3rd against some young guys on Hyo's who haven't hurt themselves yet.

.....There's also Ex250's around, which run concurrent and they are usually only 2/3rd the price. Tyres were 450 a set and will do most of a season.... They don't have to be expensive, look out for a crashed R3 or EX300. LOTS have been sold so they do come up regularly. After market parts are cheap also (bars, bodywork, rearsets etc). A new chain cost me $70! There's one set of brake pads and not the kinetic energy being created of a faster bike....

[jasonu]

THREAD DREDGE.

Im now within spitting distance of buying a bike to race. Money is there, and Im fizzing to get something.

Having re-read everything on here several times, I have decided a few things, and have a couple of questions.

Ive decided I dont want to go into buckets.
Ive also decided that going onto a litre bike is not likely to be the best benefit to me.

So, I have a low budget (very low, Im not buying anything late model here!)

Im thinking about options like ex250, cbr / vfr / zxr 400's, of which there are a few floating around - I see that several are 1989 models, which made me wonder, is it worthwhile getting something like a 1989 inline 4 400, and racing in pre '89 and another class as well? - my thinking here is that if I have a bike thats rideable in two classes, Ill get more race time = more learning time = more improvement.

or maybe a 600. I dont get real turned on by the 650 twins though - but a compelling argument might sway me.

SO my questions are: what bikes might be able to be cross entered in different classes? -

I dont have the money for an ex300, but could go for a 250 - are those classes fairly supported in my area?

Im interested in mostly racing at levels and teretonga, and the odd ruapuna when I can get that far away.

FWIW - im 6 feet, and fluctuate between 70kg, and 90 kg, depending on whether im in camp or not, if that influences suggestions for a good bike.

Ive got about 20 bikes on various watchlists and I need to make a choice!

The real money is spent after buying your bike.

[Str8 Jacket]

Deano's selling his pro-twin.....
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1217338559

[tigertim20]

well I bought an '89 cbr400.

Now to piss around sorting a club to join, and a licence etc etc etc.

thanks for the input from you all, it was helpful in coming to a decision.

[tigertim20]

another dredge. in the off chance anyone gives a fuck.

I bought the cbr400 for CAMS. did a test day on it, and was great fun untill halfway own the straight at Teretonga it made a sound similar to a cupfull of bolts tossed in a food blender :facepalm:

a New sparkplug had destroyed itself inside the cylinder, then caused additional untold calamities inside the bore. Yay.
I rebuilt it after finding a new head and new bores, and did another test day and had a blast. Then the wife wanted another house so out it went.

2018 rolls around and I see a '14 R6 for sale and Ive always liked them, and thought it would be fun to have a little sister to the big boy road bike so I bought it, spent a bunch of money on race fairings and all that crap, then tucked it in the shed late 2018 thinking, Ill wait till theres a race meeting nearby.

Fast forward to about two months ago, and after recovering from a broken ankle of the dirt bike, I decided Time to give this thing an actual nudge. In those two months its been out to 3 meetings so far, and shit, what a blast!
I said from the start im not out to win championships, but Im having a good time and making noticeable improvements everytime I take it out which is nice. Ive set some goals in terms of laptimes, and am just enjoying the process and the exhilaration of being out there.

Im glad for the 600, its fast enough down the straights to be fun, without being scary fast, and Im just working on finding a small thing to work on every time I go out for a race, grow confidence in the tyres and grip at lean etc, and Im looking into some coaching to develop a bit.

Im now thinking about acquiring some tyre warmers, even just to remove the doubt around grip levels on cold tyres in the first few laps out each time.

Wish I had pulled the trigger and done this sooner, its a blast, and the pits so far seem to be full of pretty good buggers who all enjoy a yarn between races.

[jellywrestler]

Im now thinking about acquiring some tyre warmers, even just to remove the doubt around grip levels on cold tyres in the first few laps out each time.

Wish I had pulled the trigger and done this sooner, its a blast, and the pits so far seem to be full of pretty good buggers who all enjoy a yarn between races.

tyre warmers increase the life of the tyres too, good investment