2017 gp?

[seymour14]

Lets have an objective talk on the subject early on in the piece.

Would like to hear some opinions from South Islanders too if at all possible. There are some obvious options for where the GP could be held, where would be a good consensus?

Tokoroa.
Tokoroa Reverse.
Taupo.
Manfeild backtrack.
Other options?

Look forward to some debate. Bring it on!:cool:

[Sketchy_Racer]

Manfeild back track would be awesome. Bit of a HP track but still awesome fun!

[mr bucketracer]

good idea , need to get the south islanders involved , manfeild would be a good start , taupo's a real cool track but way less time on it and maybe no 50s or sidecars , price wise what would people pay?

[Henk]

good idea , need to get the south islanders involved , manfeild would be a good start , taupo's a real cool track but way less time on it and maybe no 50s or sidecars , price wise what would people pay?

Would love to run it at Taupo but suspect cost will kill it. Also not interested if no sidecars or F5 and since F5 is growing like crazy at the moment, or so it seems probably not the only one with that impression.

[chrisc]

Tokoroa reverse isn't a good option in my opinion. Way too sketchy and Tokoroa normal direction is better anyway.

I'm 100% keen on Taupo track 2 which is super awesome on a bucket. Yeah there are some bits which you'd get creamed by a higher HP bike but I do think many would be able to over come it with better riding. It's surprisingly windy for a 'big' track and suits the buckets well. Since the PMCC and HMCC run taupo track 2 as part of their series, I don't think it would be very hard to organise the race amongst their normal day. Much like the NZ TT and NZ GP is held during the NZSBK. It would be less track time than if we held it at a kart track but would be a cool experience for those who don't normally run 'big' tracks.

In saying all of that, the Tokoroa GP is one of my favourite events of the year if not my favourite. If we kept running it there it would still be the bomb, no complaints at all.

Would love to get some south islanders up here for the GP and would love to go down with a bunch of northerners for the BOB. Who's got a truck we can get 10 buckets in?

[Pumba]

Haven't done back track at Manfield so cant comment, but track 2 at Taupo is freaking awesome for F4 and I would love to race in big grids there again.

I am with the others though that as much as I would love to run the big track again for a GP, I would not want to see it come at the expense of F5 and sidecars

[timg]

A bunch from the SI came up to Taupo a few years ago - Nick Cain won the F4GP. I really enjoyed that meeting/track and would make the trip again if the GP was there. Not a fan of Kart type tracks. Cheers.

[TZ350]

I have ridden F5 at Taupo 2 and it was oK. F4 & F5 GP has been held there before.

[cotswold]

no reason F5 could not run on big tracks, a tuned 50 would be happier with no tight twisties (until it popped that is) be nice to get a fairing on the bike
would not turn up just for F4 though

[jasonu]

no reason F5 could not run on big tracks, a tuned 50 would be happier with no tight twisties (until it popped that is) be nice to get a fairing on the bike
would not turn up just for F4 though

I used to race my RG50 around the old Taupo track. Surprisingly it was a lot of fun, made even better when they put a chicane about 1/3 the way down the top straight. A well sorted F4 bike could embarrass many a lower level F3 bike and also many big road bikes doing track days. It was always fun when someone on a 750, 1000 or 1100 road bike would come over in the pits to discover they got dusted by a Bucket.
The Manfield back track is also a choice Bucket track. It is a bit of a HP track but isn't building a fast bike part of the deal?

[Pumba]

I will say I did enjoy the GP we had a few years ago (2010 or early 2011?) on the Taupo back track.

I remember the left hander at the end of the straight being very fast

[mr bucketracer]

could the f4gp be piggy backed from another club to taupo and the rest f5 - sidecars , tokaroa be run as per normal ? another kart track round ? could even have a over 40s race (-:

[Henk]

could the f4gp be piggy backed from another club to taupo and the rest f5 - sidecars , tokaroa be run as per normal ? another kart track round ? could even have a over 40s race (-:

I had considered splitting them when you mentioned Taupo B. Hands up anyone prepared to pay for a full championship licence.

[timg]

I had considered splitting them when you mentioned Taupo B. Hands up anyone prepared to pay for a full championship licence. I always get a CH licence as I need it to do the street races down here too

[seymour14]

I had considered splitting them when you mentioned Taupo B. Hands up anyone prepared to pay for a full championship licence.

Taupo and Tokoroa are only a stones throw away, guess that could work on the same weekend and piggybacked onto another event. Because the S.I folk are mostly F4 types, it could give us the best of both worlds.

[Grumph]

Taupo and Tokoroa are only a stones throw away, guess that could work on the same weekend and piggybacked onto another event. Because the S.I folk are mostly F4 types, it could give us the best of both worlds.

I'm not making any suggestions as i won't be spending money on coming....but there are a few F5 eligible bikes lurking in SI sheds.
If you do make it attractive to the SI runners, don't be surprised if a few bring F5 bikes to get more track time....

[seymour14]

I'm not making any suggestions as i won't be spending money on coming....but there are a few F5 eligible bikes lurking in SI sheds.
If you do make it attractive to the SI runners, don't be surprised if a few bring F5 bikes to get more track time....

That could be a win/win for everyone. Hence running the whole event over the same weekend could be ideal.

F4 at Taupo. One of the two days.
F5 and Sidecars at Tokoroa. The other of the two days.

Ever hear of any sidecars down your way Grumph?

[Bert]

I think this is a cool conversation.

I'd love to race another GP at Taupo. Personally can't get excited about GP length races at Tok (love the track but not a fan of GPs and limited numbers etc.). Something about a massive grid lined up on a big track - four or five deep in the flowing corners).

Cost prohibitive? Again I'd pay far more for that opportunity...

But then the issues with F5 and sidecars. Damn, sidecars are going in numbers: so it's great to all be on an equal footing or on the same day same track.

Well then there is the mine field back track. F4 & F5 and sidecars would all be suitable. But the only issue is lack of corners... But fun none the less, hopefully we will get a chance to show it off this coming summer.

[Grumph]

That could be a win/win for everyone. Hence running the whole event over the same weekend could be ideal.

F4 at Taupo. One of the two days.
F5 and Sidecars at Tokoroa. The other of the two days.

Ever hear of any sidecars down your way Grumph?

Not now...remember, everything here is on big tracks. Even if someone hauls out an F5, it's going to have to be tested on a big track....

[mr bucketracer]

going off my camera ,back track of manfeild v BoB track is ni on the same lap times

[cotswold]

I can see whats happening here, F4 has the numbers so if it wants to bugger off and do something on its own it can, the F5 and sidecar GP's may as well be canned as a meeting with 20 bikes would suck

[Grumph]

I can see whats happening here, F4 has the numbers so if it wants to bugger off and do something on its own it can, the F5 and sidecar GP's may as well be canned as a meeting with 20 bikes would suck

Just remember that running the F5 or 50cc GP on kart tracks is relatively recent...When it was, shall we say a legitimate NZGP title, it was held with the rest of the GP meeting on Ruapuna....
Would you have liked to have ridden a 50 on Spa or the Nurburgring ? From day one the europeans realised that 50's were going to have to be seen as real bikes capable of running on big circuits...

Just saying....

[seymour14]

I can see whats happening here, F4 has the numbers so if it wants to bugger off and do something on its own it can, the F5 and sidecar GP's may as well be canned as a meeting with 20 bikes would suck

I like the 2 day format we now have, it used to be all done as a one day affair in the distant past.

Manfeild does have the best of both worlds, wider track that has similarities between Kart and Race Track, I wonder how much it would cost for a weekend there? Likewise Taupo?

Just be nice to mix it up occasionally, and get the Southerners in for a change. Earlier we look into options, the sooner we know what we are up against.

[Buttman18]

This year was my first year at the GP and i honestly don't think you could make it any better, the whole weekend was bloody amazing. That being said i would love to take the bucket out onto the bigger tracks like Taupo and Manifeld but would hate to see the formula of that weekend changed

[mr bucketracer]

I can see whats happening here, F4 has the numbers so if it wants to bugger off and do something on its own it can, the F5 and sidecar GP's may as well be canned as a meeting with 20 bikes would suckcould just run at a north island round or have the over 40 gp (-;

[Rick 52]

Taupo track 2 is fantastic ! I have good memories from the TRRS .
Could we be brave enough to organise a meeting like the "Road Race Spectacular" ?

we would have to share the track with F1, F2 , F3 and probably sidecars to spread the cost .

[Henk]

Believe it or not we talk about this every year, would love to run at a big track but becomes cost prohibitive.
Would love to run Taupo B but other classes would have to be involved, I can't see how this could be done and have enough track time for everyone if F5 and sidecars are to remain. If memory serves the last F5 GP on the Taupo track ran simultaneously with 125s or a historic GP class? TZ350 should be able to confirm, he was on track at the time.
The only reason it ended up at kart tracks is that one year we had something like three months to organise or it didn't happen, post TRRS I think, and we ended up at Toke.

[speedpro]

I like the 2 day format we now have, it used to be all done as a one day affair in the distant past.

In the "distant" past it used to be 2 days, over Easter, at Ohakea, and with a LOT of drinking in the middle, and at each end. The Ohakea GP effectively became the NZGP, or so I reckon anyway. Ohakea was well pre-MNZ.

A SI version at Woodbourne would probably be the most likely, OR, what about Blenheim Kart track though I seem to remember some sort of problem getting bikes on there now. But what a great track.

Back on an Air Force base would be awesome. Only a few small problems to overcome.

[Buttman18]

Back on an Air Force base would be awesome. Only a few small problems to overcome.


Im air force and currently part of the motorsports club on base Auckland, the chance of have a group of civilian guys tearing around on race bikes would be slim to fuck all we had to jump through countless hoops just to get a 50cc scooter race sorted. The problem is now days anything that goes wrong is on the base commanders head so he is very reluctant to approve anything that could cause damage to people or property in saying that if someone wanted to put forward a request i could point you through the right channels

[lodgernz]

could the f4gp be piggy backed from another club to taupo and the rest f5 - sidecars , tokaroa be run as per normal ? another kart track round ? could even have a over 40s race (-:

There aren't that many riders who race both f4 and f5, so if you split the classes over two venues, I think you'd see a piss-poor muster of bucket people at the F4 venue, 'cos why would the F5 guys go? To watch or marshall only? Don't think so.
Similarly, after the F4 day, most of those riders would go home, so we'd have a piss-poor turnout for the F5 and Sidecar day, also with no marshalls.
One fabulous weekend at Tokoroa or some other cool track, with plenty of marshalls, or two minimal turnouts at two different tracks with no marshalls? I know my preference.

[cotswold]

There aren't that many riders who race both f4 and f5, so if you split the classes over two venues, I think you'd see a piss-poor muster of bucket people at the F4 venue, 'cos why would the F5 guys go? To watch or marshall only? Don't think so.
Similarly, after the F4 day, most of those riders would go home, so we'd have a piss-poor turnout for the F5 and Sidecar day, also with no marshalls.
One fabulous weekend at Tokoroa or some other cool track, with plenty of marshalls, or two minimal turnouts at two different tracks with no marshalls? I know my preference.

What he said ......

[Henk]

F5 is a bit of a crossover class.
From my poor ish memory this year.

Collect the set, F4, F5, sidecars
Brian
Me

F4 and F5
As above
Roger
Ken
B grade tim (entered but F5 broke on him)
Sketchy
Nathaniel
Malcolm?

Probably someone I missed, in any case enough that if the crossovers don't show potentially not enough for six starters.

[mr bucketracer]

There aren't that many riders who race both f4 and f5, so if you split the classes over two venues, I think you'd see a piss-poor muster of bucket people at the F4 venue, 'cos why would the F5 guys go? To watch or marshall only? Don't think so.
Similarly, after the F4 day, most of those riders would go home, so we'd have a piss-poor turnout for the F5 and Sidecar day, also with no marshalls.
One fabulous weekend at Tokoroa or some other cool track, with plenty of marshalls, or two minimal turnouts at two different tracks with no marshalls? I know my preference.thats why you could run it at a north island round for the rest , could even pull more people along because of that:msn-wink:

[cotswold]

thats why you could run it at a north island round for the rest , could even pull more people along because of that:msn-wink:

Taumaranui instead of Toke? plus an over 50 cup, I like that idea

[Autech]

I have fond memories of Taupo from a track day I did there on my Hobag before I immigrated to "the mainland".

I could be keen on a weekend there if some of the other boys are heading up. We could throw about 8 buckets into a Hiace van I reckon and another 3 or so on a trailer towed behind. I know I once found accommodation in Taupo for $25 a night. It was a bed but not much else, but if you are there to race who cares?

[ac3_snow]

What was the cost to enter the TRRS?

How many people would be happy to pay an entry fee of $150 for ONE day to have the GP at Taupo? (entry only not including transponders, licence upgrades etc).

P.s i definitely don't want to see classes split across events, keep all the buckets together.

[seymour14]

I know once I heard the figure of $4500 spoken of to hire Taupo. Not sure how accurate that is.

One hundred people (which we almost have with North Islanders alone), is $45 per head. Two days $90.

On top of that is your normal $50 upgrade and transponders and maybe $10 a head extra for the ambulance for two days (home away from home for me...):killingme, so approx $200 all up for two days at Taupo. All run under our own auspices.

That doesn't seem as bad as all that for a GP event. All classes represented and two days track time.

[cotswold]

What was the cost to enter the TRRS?

How many people would be happy to pay an entry fee of $150 for ONE day to have the GP at Taupo? (entry only not including transponders, licence upgrades etc).

P.s i definitely don't want to see classes split across events, keep all the buckets together.

I agree as I reckon it would be the beginning of the end

[ac3_snow]

I know once I heard the figure of $4500 spoken of to hire Taupo. Not sure how accurate that is.

One hundred people (which we almost have with North Islanders alone), is $45 per head. Two days $90.

On top of that is your normal $50 upgrade and transponders and maybe $10 a head extra for the ambulance for two days (home away from home for me...):killingme, so approx $200 all up for two days at Taupo. All run under our own auspices.

That doesn't seem as bad as all that for a GP event. All classes represented and two days track time.

Rather than be like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8vCsTAPt30

I thought I would be slightly more constructive, so have gone back to look at the entries and results for the TRRS at taupo for 2009, 2010 and 2011.

2009: http://www.roadracespectacular.4t.com/ (entry list on middle of page)
F4 45
F5 10
Unique riders 48

2010 http://www.mylaps.com/en/events/620385
f4 25
f5 2
unique 26

2011 http://www.mylaps.com/en/events/733033
F4 40
F5 8
Unique 41

Recent GP at Tokoroa was the biggest event there yet with 60 entries. I personally would not be comfortable running any event with the break even point being 100. I would use 60 perhaps on the hope that it did better than any others have done before. I still think that 50 is a more realistic expected turn out.

Also yes $4500 is correct, its all there on their website for any one who wants to see it, but that does not include anything else, so you also need to factor in cost of hiring the timing shed, somewhere to complete sign on, fire extinguishers, medical personnel, permits, security personnel and any other requirements stipulated by the track. I would expect something like $5500 - $6500 per day to be the realistic cost (the big variable in there being ambulance) remember this is all still for only 1 day.

http://www.brucemclarenmotorsportpark.com/i/Files/TrackHire.pdf

So yes my suggestion of $150 was at the higher end of the spectrum (I would ball park a realistic entry fee to be $120-$150). There also needs to be appropriate officials willing to help run this at Taupo, it would be a significantly more involved job than Tokoroa. Not impossible but there needs to be realistic expectations from the beginning e.g. yes its going to cost a heck of a lot more than running it at a kart track.

[lodgernz]

Also don't forget that marshalls at tracks like Manfield and Taupo are in their boxes for the day. It's simply not possible to have marshalls running backwards and forwards between races so they can marshall the "other" class. Hence it's only practical if combined with a big meeting where marshalls are provided.

[seymour14]

Manfeild back track costs considerably less to hire (of course with an Ambulance @ $800 per day), but that brings hireage and Ambulance to more like $2000 per day. Plus other obvious needs it would almost work out at half the other quote. Even with other considerations, including profit for the organizers, I can't see it topping $3000 per day. Brent might like to put my figures a little more in order.

In my minds eye I saw about 30 Formula Tokoroa, 20 odd F4, 16 Sidecar people who didn't cross over to other races, and a handful of F5 who mainly did both classes. Close to 70.

Add in a few Wellington people who didn't make it this year, and probably a minimum of 20 South Islanders (First GP they have had a chance at in nearly 5 years) on a track that suits.

40 F4, 40 Formula Taupo/Manfeild, 20 F5, 10 sidecar (20 people). I don't think is out of the question, and a track that can accommodate those numbers.

Money would be dearer certainly, but we are becoming a one trick pony at the moment. Food for thought.

[seymour14]

Also don't forget that marshalls at tracks like Manfield and Taupo are in their boxes for the day. It's simply not possible to have marshalls running backwards and forwards between races so they can marshall the "other" class. Hence it's only practical if combined with a big meeting where marshalls are provided.

Manfeild back track is easy enough to Marshall and get about. The GPR guys would have to knock up some Marshalling boxes out of car tyres though for sure.

[mr bucketracer]

man!! 40 riders entered in one race !!thats a gp !! http://www.mylaps.com/en/events/733033

[Henk]

Keep in mind that in the TTRS days the difference between a day licence was less than it is now and that Roys hill was running, and back then (when I was young?) to ride at a different clubs event you needed the full licence, there were quite a few of us doing the trip to Hawkes bay on a fairly regular basis. Shit, I had a full licence so I could ride both buckets and my dirt bike on the same ticket.

[Grumph]

Add in a few Wellington people who didn't make it this year, and probably a minimum of 20 South Islanders (First GP they have had a chance at in nearly 5 years) on a track that suits.

Money would be dearer certainly, but we are becoming a one trick pony at the moment. Food for thought.

20 is optimistic in the extreme - even if you do as we do and either reduce entry fees or subsidise them for interislanders...And without that I don't see much interest.

It's hard obviously to break out of, as you call it - the one trick pony syndrome - but it can be done on less members. Look at what CAMS has achieved here in terms of stand alone meetings.
Start scouting sponsors....

[seymour14]

20 is optimistic in the extreme - even if you do as we do and either reduce entry fees or subsidise them for interislanders...And without that I don't see much interest.

It's hard obviously to break out of, as you call it - the one trick pony syndrome - but it can be done on less members. Look at what CAMS has achieved here in terms of stand alone meetings.
Start scouting sponsors....

Another idea might be teaming up with Motards or a Development Class to get the extra numbers, I'm sure with a little lateral thinking some devious plan could come together.

In all honesty, the lovely people at MNZ (cough cough), should give us a hand occasionally. Be it getting a good rate for a one off meet every 5 years, or something more to say we do enjoy the fees you pay every year and we are willing to give you some goodwill once in a blue moon...

Off to grab my gun, bloody pet pig just flew past...

[lodgernz]

I do like the idea of Manfield Back Track for all 3 GPs run together. We'd lose a few Aucklanders (hopefully not Brian and Mel) but would get more from Wellington and maybe a few mainlanders to balance that.
I know the Nelson guys are keen to do more NI racing, and there might be a couple from Chch tempted by a fast circuit like the ones the're used to. As always, the cost of crossing the strait is the main problem for them.

[FastFred]

I do like the idea of Manfield Back Track for all 3 GPs run together. ... get more from Wellington and maybe a few mainlanders to.

Sounds Good

[Bert]

Another idea might be teaming up with Motards or a Development Class to get the extra numbers, I'm sure with a little lateral thinking some devious plan could come together.

In all honesty, the lovely people at MNZ (cough cough), should give us a hand occasionally. Be it getting a good rate for a one off meet every 5 years, or something more to say we do enjoy the fees you pay every year and we are willing to give you some goodwill once in a blue moon...

Off to grab my gun, bloody pet pig just flew past...

Given MNZ offered help to each of the clubs running nationals - you would think there would be an offer in the mail.....

[seymour14]

Given MNZ offered help to each of the clubs running nationals - you would think there would be an offer in the mail.....

Even if a deal could be struck for once every five years. I might have to pose the question.

Nicely of course. I will take blunt toothpicks to prod them along...:shifty:

[Autech]

Another idea might be teaming up with Motards or a Development Class to get the extra numbers, I'm sure with a little lateral thinking some devious plan could come together.



http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/3865046

With over 50 bikes on the grid at KOR5 in the joint F4 Development race (with a few "slower" 250 prods thrown in) there could well be something in that. A lot of quick chaps in development down here.

Could be the 2017 F4, F5 and development GP, someone come up with a more elegant name please.
Separate trophy for each with all the grid girls going to the winner. That way some of the chaps down here with too many bikes might bring a Development bike as well as a bucket along, more track time if they are run separately.

[racer40]

Hi Guys, just my two cents worth. First up I love the Tokoroa event and this year had a huge entry, even if alot were just in the Formula Tok class, it just had a great atmosphere. It is also sort of central north Island, . When i ran the TRRS it is a major and the entry fee would be huge to what bucket riders are used to and you would still only get a max of 60 buckets, although you could run down on the old circuit for a cheaper option. I also see some of you just talking F4 and F5, well dont forget the sidecars which is growing slowly.
If we went to the Manfeild back track, you may lose a few aucklanders not willing to travel that far, but yes you may get more wellintonions and hopefully a few south islanders, really all I am saying is be very careful on change when you already have a great event

[seymour14]

Hi Guys, just my two cents worth. First up I love the Tokoroa event and this year had a huge entry, even if alot were just in the Formula Tok class, it just had a great atmosphere. It is also sort of central north Island, . When i ran the TRRS it is a major and the entry fee would be huge to what bucket riders are used to and you would still only get a max of 60 buckets, although you could run down on the old circuit for a cheaper option. I also see some of you just talking F4 and F5, well dont forget the sidecars which is growing slowly.
If we went to the Manfeild back track, you may lose a few aucklanders not willing to travel that far, but yes you may get more wellintonions and hopefully a few south islanders, really all I am saying is be very careful on change when you already have a great event

Yeah. it is a fair point. Same could be said with us though, we have several "Feilding Mini sidecars" which would fit the bucket rules as they stand (110cc), but they don't venture to Tokoroa. They would in all likelihood come if it was at Manfeild, and once hooked may do more, and I think it would spur them along if a GP was on the cards close to home. Even if it was a one off opportunity.

The Tokoroa turnout was high, but the percentage living below Tokoroa was very low. And no South Islanders as usual, which means you may have to start calling it the Auckland GP soon...LOL

Food for thought.

[Bert]

Yeah. it is a fair point. Same could be said with us though, we have several "Feilding Mini sidecars" which would fit the bucket rules as they stand (110cc), but they don't venture to Tokoroa. They would in all likelihood come if it was at Manfeild, and once hooked may do more, and I think it would spur them along if a GP was on the cards close to home. Even if it was a one off opportunity.

The Tokoroa turnout was high, but the percentage living below Tokoroa was very low. And no South Islanders as usual, which means you may have to start calling it the Auckland GP soon...LOL

Food for thought.

Worthy of note, the local highschool sidecars will travel, but they wanted something local first (to shake down their rigs). It's a big ask travelling - for the teachers to organise all of that with the students etc. if they don't know what it's really like. Hopefully now the ball is rolling for local racing we will see more take up the challenge next year.

[timg]

And no South Islanders as usual Much as we'd like to, Tokoroa's a frigging long way :baby: for us to come to be thrashed on a style of track that we don't have experience racing on. Manfield I'd make the effort to get to and probably a few more would too :banana: