Gob-smacked at following too close [Archive]

rastuscat

6th April 2016, 19:38

Grumph

6th April 2016, 19:55

Well, around ChCh it's to avoid having a car try and insert into the gap....

I've seen you leading your flock a couple of times now, incl today. I've been tempted to follow and watch. One day.

Akzle

6th April 2016, 20:11

been to town lately?

I lol at those cunts.

2 second rule and shit.

Also supposed to stop so as you can see the road markings / rear wheels of the vehicle in front. Rarely see that.

I lol at those cunts.

And then they drive into each other. daily.

george formby

6th April 2016, 20:11

Well, I think road users are every shade of grey between black and white. Those who are thinking about where they're going and those who think about where they are.
Following to close is a symptom of not thinking about the immediate future.

Just sayin. It's how I look at it. Always have a plan B.

Akzle

6th April 2016, 20:13

Well, around ChCh it's to avoid having a car try and insert into the gap....

townies/morons apparently dont realise that giving way improves traffic flow.

Duncan74

6th April 2016, 20:14

Thursday night before easter I was riding back from AKL to TGA via the SH2 Gorge route. Was absolutely peeing it down. Holiday traffic so all just heading along at about 10-15 under speed limit (ie 60-90hph). No-one was going anywhere as it was long train of vehicles. I was 2.5 seconds gap from the car in front after having a nasty fright a few Km back where we came to a sudden halt and the car behind ended up in front of me as I was in the shoulder.... Guy was full on tailgating me, few foot behind. Admittedly round some of the 'high speed (85/95) bends I was down at a few km below the advisory, but then was back 2.5s behind before the next bend. I politely waved my hand to suggest he drop back a bit. Few km later he overtook on solid yellow to pull into the gap and then tail gate the car in front for the next 70kms with me behind until I turned off...... Actually was OK as the driver behind was a bit more aware and hung back a sensible distance.

Attempting to ride / drive with a 2s gap on the Southern motorway is a recipe for disaster.....

Moi

6th April 2016, 20:35

"... because that ABS and ESC and PDQ and NZQA are going to make me stop even faster than before... "

In the days of drum brakes and crossply tyres you had to leave the room or impale your car on the towbar of the car in front. Today if you slam into the vehicle in front the insurance company pays out for the company car you have just written-off, the boss doesn't care and neither do the drivers. Easy come, easy go... Or am I just being a cynical old barstool?

Rastus, I do wonder if drivers tailgate because they have never had a nose-to-tail and if they do, then it is everyone else's fault... how you can blame someone else for following too close I not sure. Plus, if you leave a reasonable gap then there's always some muppet who just has to fill that gap. Or have they not been taught to drive correctly?

AllanB

6th April 2016, 20:40

Bikes are shocking for this. I keep checking myself as it is easy to get too close.

Why? Bikes brake so well and accelerate so hard we get a bit complacent, plus if we admit it, we are always just a twist away from passing that car in front .......

I'm more concerned about the brain-fart blind corner wrong side of the road passing I'm seeing motorcyclists do. WTF.

On the passing game - my decider is always 'what if there is another bike just around that corner cranked over at speed?' Will I (we I guess) make it?

HenryDorsetCase

6th April 2016, 20:46

On all the Ride Forever courses I deliver I roll out my tape measure and show people what the Road User Rule says about following distance.

After the gasps and sniggers have abated we generally agree that bugger all people, drivers or riders, leave the legally required following distance.

Just considering a cost-benefit analysis of following too close, I'm yet to see a benefit.

A decent following distance gives you more visibility, and makes you more visible. You regain control, and get time to deal with things that arise.

So why do the majority of us follow too close?

Duh. save petrol by drafting you. Simple

rastuscat

6th April 2016, 21:05

Thing is, following distance is only partly about stopping distance. It's primarily about awareness, visibility, conspicuity and control.

Here's some interesting facts.

The Road User Rule only requires 20 metres at 50 kmh. The 2 second rule (Road Code) wants 27.6 metres. When I roll the tape measure out everyone agrees that the Chur Chur standard is 8-10 metres at 50 kmh.

When I had a troll bike I'd stop someone who had been following at maybe 6 metres at 50 kmh, and they'd tell me they were following the 2 second rule. Shite.

If I follow at 20 metres at 50 kmh and someone drives onto my gap, I can choose to get grumpy, or just see it as another chance to improve my safety by giving them 20 metres.

Actually, most people raise that; following so close to stop people taking your space. Really? Like driving is some sort of competition. Is life really that sad, that we have resorted to competing for a space in traffic? And we will risk our safety to make sure no bastard steals "our" space?

Do the cost benefit. Significant reduction in visibility, conspicuity, awareness and control, given away for the sake of stopping someone from taking what is perceived as our space.

Not seeing too much benefit in following too close.

And it's only a little bit about stopping distance.

rastuscat

6th April 2016, 21:16

Well, around ChCh it's to avoid having a car try and insert into the gap....

I've seen you leading your flock a couple of times now, incl today. I've been tempted to follow and watch. One day.

No flock for me today. Basic Handling day today.

I think I'm the only one on an RT. If you see me out flip me the bird. I'll think it's Azkle

AllanB

6th April 2016, 21:20

If I follow at 20 metres at 50 kmh and someone drives onto my gap, I can choose to get grumpy, or just see it as another chance to improve my safety by giving them 20 metres.

Actually, most people raise that; following so close to stop people taking your space. Really? Like driving is some sort of competition. Is life really that sad, that we have resorted to competing for a space in traffic? And we will risk our safety to make sure no bastard steals "our" space?

20 m, in Christchurch. Shit you'd never get home - every bastard and their dog plus a peloton of Lycra clad crotch exposing after work cyclists would grab the gap in front of you. One pulls back. More move in..........

Christchurch has a legal exemption on follow distances. If you are further back that the length of your vehicle then you sexuality is up for question.

Actually that technically does not read correctly. After all if you think about the male driver who rides up the rear of the male driver in front of them may be reenacting a bedroom scene.

caseye

6th April 2016, 21:20

Doesn't matter how much of a gap I leave on the vehicle in front some arse wipe always wants to get in it, apparently I'm going too slow! Not going any quicker than the guy /girl in front, just leaving such a big gap that I must be going too slow.
Have to keep telling the wife not to be so close behind other vehicles when she's riding with me, she doesn't get it. They stop, you don't they Ok, you might walk away, your bike won't.
I'm seeing more and more 2fiddy sprot bikes and BIGGER ones right up the tail pipes of the cars in front of them and I do wonder while leaving them much bigger gaps cause I ain't getting involved in their accident???

rastuscat

6th April 2016, 21:31

20 m, in Christchurch. Shit you'd never get home - every bastard and their dog plus a peloton of Lycra clad crotch exposing after work cyclists would grab the gap in front of you. .

I'd just love to have an hour with you so we can discuss this.

My perception of this is quite different.

Fancy going for a ride for an hour in traffic with me? I'll buy you a donut.

rastuscat

6th April 2016, 21:35

Doesn't matter how much of a gap I leave on the vehicle in front some arse wipe always wants to get in it, apparently I'm going too slow!

I used to get dark about it too, but these days I just allow myself to drop back.

I reckon if I ride across Christchurch in heavy traffic I might get 3 people drive into my gaps.

It's not worth it to me to follow too close just to "beat" 3 tossers.

Akzle

6th April 2016, 21:47

Rastus, I do wonder if drivers tailgate because they have never had a nose-to-tail and if they do, then it is everyone else's fault... how you can blame someone else for following too close I not sure. Plus, if you leave a reasonable gap then there's always some muppet who just has to fill that gap. Or have they not been taught to drive correctly?

"failing to stop short"

i'd lump most vehicular collisions into "attemtpted murder"

vote akzle.

Akzle

6th April 2016, 21:51

On the passing game - my decider is always 'what if there is another bike just around that corner cranked over at speed?' Will I (we I guess) make it?

one of the more enlightening moments of my life was passing another guy in k gorge.

On each others left.

AllanB

6th April 2016, 22:05

Fancy going for a ride for an hour in traffic with me? I'll buy you a donut.

Pretty sure sure are not allowed to say things like that anymore! But you had me at donut.

Gremlin

6th April 2016, 23:23

rastuscat

7th April 2016, 06:46

I do see a lot of bikes tailgating on the motorway, and while definitely wincing, I can only imagine it's so they can dart into the space in the lane next door as soon as possible.

In general, Auckland drivers can't stick to 2sec in the dry or wet, let alone 4sec in the wet. I was in the van on Monday night on the motorway, dark, raining very heavily and I had vehicles cutting in front of me barely leaving 3-5m... and we're doing 80kph+. :no:

I do compromise my following distance a little (generally always have 1.5s or more) as I prefer for vehicles not to cut in, as I've usually got someone close enough behind me already...

Reminds me to report one driver from the weekend that was following vehicles including me, on the motorway at 100kph at 2-3m...

1.5 seconds at 50 kmh is around 20 metres, so you meet the legal requirements.

I use the legal requirements. The 2 second rule isn't law, and it's excessive. It was invented to provide a guideline, and it's basically ignored by most anyway.

In the blue suit I'd find someone at 5 metres at 50 kmh. I'd stop them, and they would say they were following the 2 second rule.

At 50 kmh you're doing 13.8 metres per second. 2 seconds amounts to 27.6 metres. The law only requires 20, and I find that to be adequate.

swarfie

7th April 2016, 07:14

Now days I'm like Caseye and Rastus, just keep my own space and if some muppet wants to fill it then I just let them fill it and make more. I cannot believe the gap some of these muppets don't allow themselves. It's something I actually pride myself in and something I'm pretty sure I've instilled in my kids as well. I hate going to Dorkland for this subjects very reason, for as soon as I get over the Bombay's it's SO BLOODY OBVIUOS. I just get further and further back....and arrive at my destination 1 & 1/2 minutes behind schedule. Alive. And no bent transport. Think about it:wari:

nerrrd

7th April 2016, 07:55

Doesn't matter how much of a gap I leave on the vehicle in front some arse wipe always wants to get in it, apparently I'm going too slow!

This in Auckland – tailgaters are trying to intimidate what they perceive as 'slow' vehicles (must be going too slowly because there's a gap in front) into speeding up, so they don't lose their place in the queue.

Reminds me to report one driver from the weekend that was following vehicles including me, on the motorway at 100kph at 2-3m...

Saw a frightening example of that on the western on the way home last night (before they closed it altogether for road works) – two cars tailgating another one in sequence (possibly with high beams) for about 30 seconds each when they could easily pass at any time using the adjacent lane, which they both eventually did. Why? The 'slow' car was in the 'fast' middle lane and wouldn't budge.

Changing this mindset in a lot of Auckland (dare I suggest NZ?) drivers is going to take a lot of time and effort.

Madness

7th April 2016, 07:58

If only cunts would keep left unless overtaking :facepalm:

jellywrestler

7th April 2016, 08:56

willytheekid

7th April 2016, 09:24

Heres an idea

...MAYBE, if they stopped just "testing" people then HANDING OUT ANOTHER LICENSE!, maybe!, if we introduced a new system that actually TRAINED people to drive safely, we would see a dramatic improvement in ACTUAL ROAD SAFETY ->(I believe its called defensive driver training...and I believe most other country's use such commonsense methods to train there populace BEFORE allowing them onto public roads)

But not here tho aye...can ya park?...get around the block??...GREAT!! - heres a fucking license, just learn the rest as ya go! - hope ya don't learn the hard way and kill someone!:facepalm:

Hence - Following distance is the LEAST of our worries...sharing the road with MILLIONS of untraining/low skilled "licensed" drivers...IS! (And to be honest, if the bar is set so fuckin low at the very get go...ya cant really blame the populace for there lack of understanding in regards to road safety...but we sure do hunt em for revenue!! - aye!<_< (Tis a nice wee circle of constant revenue right there!...but no problems aye...as its JUST the drivers fault!...never the systems!!)

http://e.lvme.me/rynqk75.jpg

ps...mirrors!(Like all other road going vehicles are required to have by law!) - for cyclists!!...with over 70% of cyclist fatalities from being hit from behind!...:facepalm: (yeah!...that commonsense thing again eh<_<)

Grumph

7th April 2016, 14:22

too tight to pay the money eh?

You know me so well....sung to the accompaniment of a no 8 barrel organ...

Actually, living out to the far west and having to pass in the neighbourhood of 'puna coming amd going, I've seen someone on a BM leading a group of assorted bikes on what is either a donut run into town or some sort of real world training...
i'm tempted to follow just to see what the leader would do....

Moi

7th April 2016, 14:56

This in Auckland – tailgaters are trying to intimidate what they perceive as 'slow' vehicles (must be going too slowly because there's a gap in front) into speeding up, so they don't lose their place in the queue...

Instead of saying "intimidate", say "bully" - because that is what they are doing, they are bullying you...

Moi

7th April 2016, 15:00

Heres an idea

...MAYBE, if they stopped just "testing" people then HANDING OUT ANOTHER LICENSE!, maybe!, if we introduced a new system that actually TRAINED people to drive safely...

You're a bloody rebel... fancy suggesting such a radical idea... you're not one of these commo types are you?

Seriously, couldn't agree more...

Tazz

7th April 2016, 15:07

Because then you might leave a gap that someone could pull into, and being courteous on the road is not the NZ way ;)

But to answer the question, I get close when I am ready to/trying to/about to pass. It has crossed my mind once or twice that I am not happy with the habit (I get much closer on the bike than I do in anything with 4 or more wheels) but I'm really struggling to break the habit.

On the flip side, as bad as it is, having less of a run up keeps the speed down and overtakes shorter too, so I'm less likely to get a ticket for speeding while passing. Safety first with those tickets eh....:Police:

nodrog

7th April 2016, 16:37

I follow people all the time that aren't allowing sufficient room behind them.

Metastable

7th April 2016, 17:02

Well when it comes to motorways with 2 or more lanes going in the same direction, I find the gap is smaller on the "fast aka passing lane". The reason seems pretty obvious. Some folks don't understand lane discipline..... so others try to "push" them out of the way.... so they can simply get by. Sometimes it works, other times the slower drivers in the "passing lane" are either ignorant or don't care about sharing the road.

IMO - this leads to a very dangerous situation. You have a driver who is trying to pass, but can't.... which can lead to a lack of patience. Plus, you have a small gap.... often between various cars, all of whom are trying to pass the slower vehicle. You've all seen it in bigger cities. The slow car with no one in front and 15 cars behind.... going the same speed as the person next to them?

rastuscat

7th April 2016, 20:45

Heres an idea

...MAYBE, if they stopped just "testing" people then HANDING OUT ANOTHER LICENSE!, maybe!, if we introduced a new system that actually TRAINED people to drive safely...........

Hey Wheelie.

In the motorcycle world there are two licensing systems. The one you describe, and CBTA.

CBTA covers that sort of thing. It's just a pity it's not compulsory. I understand why though. There are places with no CBTA assessor, so the old system prevails.

Even in the Basic Handling Skills Test we train people to have good habits, not just pass a test.

How are you finding the Pegasus Roundabout Wheelie? You must have friends in high places to have your wishes come true like that.

Moi

7th April 2016, 20:54

Hey Rastus you summed it up perfectly for me: "It's primarily about awareness, visibility, conspicuity and control".

Those four words helped to illustrate why I like to have a decent gap between myself and the vehicle in front of me. For me it's about seeing what is happening up ahead. And hopefully, being seen by other drivers/riders, minimise if not eliminate those "Oh! Shit!" moments.

Unfortunately, leave a gap for your safety and you're bound to have some muppet hop into it or some bully tailgate you. I just ease off the accelerator and let the gap size increase and make the gap a bit bigger when tailgated.

Thanks for putting into words what I have been doing and not thinking about how I'd explain it other than to say: Means I have a bit more time to react if I need to. Also, that idea of where will you be in 10 to 15 seconds and what is happening up there?

Thanks for making me think about my driving/riding in a positive way.

AllanB

7th April 2016, 21:10

So after reading this thread and thinking of donuts I jumped in my car this morning and evening to and from work and I deliberately set the recommended travelling distances. I live about 12 kms out of Christchurch so enjoy a bit of open road at the start and finish of the round trip with a similar 12 km or so in built up zones (50k).

Outwards is the usual collection of impatient running late to work drivers - I was passed twice (I was on cruise control at 100) the second time dangerously - lucky for the last one there was a good gap for him to pull into. 4WD ....... nuff said, they drive like they are immune to injury.

In the CBD sub 50 - I was tooted at twice by following drivers annoyed at the 'gap' in front I presume as both were gesturing at me in a forward indicating manner with their hands. I politely waved back as I was adopting the Ratsus Buddha one with the world mantra.

The return trip was better as I was working late and missed the rush. I even got to pass someone. Which in itself was kind of interesting as I was using the approx 20 m gap, decided to pass (open road) and even in the XR6 precious seconds were gobbled up swallowing up the 20 m before passing.

I intend to adopt the same on the Ducati this weekend and see if it alters my normal riding style.

HenryDorsetCase

7th April 2016, 21:37

You know me so well....sung to the accompaniment of a no 8 barrel organ...

Actually, living out to the far west and having to pass in the neighbourhood of 'puna coming amd going, I've seen someone on a BM leading a group of assorted bikes on what is either a donut run into town or some sort of real world training...
i'm tempted to follow just to see what the leader would do....

less than five metres behind, so you can see EXACTLY what he's up to, one trusts.

Grumph

8th April 2016, 06:29

less than five metres behind, so you can see EXACTLY what he's up to, one trusts.

Of course - I'm old and shortsighted...But i'll have the lights on too, just to present a challenge, you understand.

rastuscat

11th April 2016, 07:35

Felt the pain yesterday. But it gave me cause for yet further reflection. Moorhouse Ave is the fill-the-space-hot-spot of Christchurch. So many people dicing for a better position to suit their movements.

But it's still a good idea to leave a good gap, especially given the heightened risk. It smoothes the ride.

Leaving a good distance on a multi lane road is where folk fill the gap most. It's also the place for advanced awareness.

So what's the excuse for following too close on a single lane road?

willytheekid

11th April 2016, 15:27

So what's the excuse for following too close on a single lane road?

Slip streamin??:confused: (its a nascar thingy...so Im told)

Ya welcome! :D

rastuscat

11th April 2016, 19:12

Slip streamin??:confused: (its a nascar thingy...so Im told)

Ya welcome! :D

Harrumph

10 Guitars

russd7

11th April 2016, 19:38

If only cunts would keep left unless overtaking :facepalm:

WTF, if im traveling at 85km/hr in the fast lane then i am doing my duty to society by slowing people down, we all know that speed kills.
and it is my right to travel at 85km/hr in a 100km/hr zone if that is what i feel safe doing

Kickaha

11th April 2016, 20:11

and it is my right to travel at 85km/hr in a 100km/hr zone if that is what i feel safe doing
Still means you're a cunt though

russd7

11th April 2016, 21:30

Still means you're a cunt though

yeah but, yeah but, naaaaa fuck it. even down here where there is fuckall traffic we get assholes travelling 70 or 80km on the open road

russd7

11th April 2016, 21:31

Still means you're a cunt though

orrrrrrr im a lesbian trapped in a mans body so i do find cunts rather useful :wings:

AllanB

11th April 2016, 21:35

Moorhouse Ave is a race track (drag strip?) has been as long as I can recall.

I believe the closeness one follows is subconsciously driven by the vehicle you drive. If you drive a large 4WD or twin cab truck you can follow really really close.

russd7

11th April 2016, 21:57

Moorhouse Ave is a (drag strip?) has been as long as I can recall.

yeah but they not all trannies so i am told, and whats that got to do with following distances. ohh:facepalm:

rastuscat

12th April 2016, 18:57

WTF, if im traveling at 85km/hr in the fast lane then i am doing my duty to society by slowing people down, we all know that speed kills.
and it is my right to travel at 85km/hr in a 100km/hr zone if that is what i feel safe doing

Funny. Here's my take on the speed limits in NZ.

You can go as fast as you want as long as you don't go faster than the number on the sign. Simple.

And you can go as slow as you want as long as you don't hold people up. Equally simple.

Donuts.

Akzle

12th April 2016, 19:29

AllanB

12th April 2016, 19:34

yeah but they not all trannies so i am told, and whats that got to do with following distances. ohh:facepalm:

That's Manchester Street for the trannies, underage pros and sloppy, barn door gals ........ shudder. Best avoided.

Hmm the Council has just dropped the speed limit in town to 30 .... I guess it gives the councilors more time to shop along Manchester Street.

Following distances? Probably a few rear enders on Manchester St.

ellipsis

12th April 2016, 19:44

...I was on SH75 around midday'ish last Sunday and saw large amounts of riders in groups and most of them had big distance between them, the odd sprotty being a wank and smashing through a group of cruisers like he was MM...In 60 ks I saw a lot of good behaviour from bikes and cars...fucking amazing at that time of day on my driveway...

russd7

12th April 2016, 20:00

as long as you don't hold people up. Equally simple.Donuts.

and herein lays the problem, have been stuck in traffic being held up for long distances when there has been ample opportunity for the slow vehicle to pull to the left and allow traffic to flow past, but then i have also been in traffic where the slow vehicle has pulled to the left and the shopping trolly immediately behind won't pass.

Berries

12th April 2016, 23:53

Moorhouse Ave is a race track (drag strip?) has been as long as I can recall.
I stayed last night on the corner of Riccarton Road and Deans Ave. Could not believe the number of people coming off the roundabout at stupid speeds heading down to Moorhouse Ave. Saw some mean drifting and a few very dodgy overtakes.

Pre EQ I used to stay in Cathedral Square. Same same. Flat old Christchurch eh? It will never change.

That's Manchester Street for the trannies, underage pros and sloppy, barn door gals ........ shudder.
Fuck. I was up for a rear end on Manchester Street last night but I thought they had all moved on?

rastuscat

13th April 2016, 17:06

I stayed last night on the corner of Riccarton Road and Deans Ave. Could not believe the number of people coming off the roundabout at stupid speeds heading down to Moorhouse Ave. Saw some mean drifting and a few very dodgy overtakes.

Pre EQ I used to stay in Cathedral Square. Same same. Flat old Christchurch eh? It will never change.

Fuck. I was up for a rear end on Manchester Street last night but I thought they had all moved on?

Dude, just South of that roundabout theres a street called Brockworth Place. Pre EQ we used to sit there in a plain car, radaring the cars exiting the roundabout. The slow learners in the Boy Racer crowd used to floor it out of that roundabout. Anything up to 100, gained very quickly.

Happy hunting back then. I don't wear the blue suit any more, but I have fond memories of most of the little things we did over my time.

caspernz

13th April 2016, 17:28

Interesting topic, but in reality those who choose to tailgate simply lack proper driver/rider training. Nothing to do with ethnic group or social standing, although anecdotal evidence suggests a pattern...

As for speed, within the law of the land of course, if I'm truckin along on 90 clicks and there's plenty of opportunity for anyone catching up to overtake...what's the problem? Seems the group of drivers capable of overtaking on a two lane road keeps shrinking though, so in order to stay safe I gotta pull over occasionally or prompt the lemming behind me there's now an opportunity to overtake...unless they're happy to sit 5 feet behind me for another few clicks...

Personally I'll admit to having belonged to the "must keep the gap shut" kind of tailgater support network, but age and exposure to training has mellowed me out. Much safer anyway. So when someone starts with the "gotta keep the gap shut or I'll go backwards" crap I just grin and think to myself they'll learn in due course.

Had a chat with a fellow trucker recently, he'd been involved in a handful of fender benders in recent times. Let him talk thru the incidents and he didn't like my summation when I suggested his own situational awareness could do with some improving...:angry2:...and doesn't that sound like how bikers talk too when apportioning blame for any incident they're involved in?

Anyway, not tailgating keeps me chilled out. And guess what? I arrive at my destination about the same time as the tailgating fraternity...:innocent:

russd7

13th April 2016, 17:54

Had a chat with a fellow trucker recently, he'd been involved in a handful of fender benders in recent times. Let him talk thru the incidents and he didn't like my summation when I suggested his own situational awareness could do with some improving...:angry2:...and doesn't that sound like how bikers talk too when apportioning blame for any incident they're involved in?

Anyway, not tailgating keeps me chilled out. And guess what? I arrive at my destination about the same time as the tailgating fraternity...:innocent:

happened to have upset a few people on this topic not to long ago, unfortunately it was a young guy died while overtaking a vehicle, as i understand the situation a woman (happened to be asian) driving along and a group of four bikes come up behind, she finds spot to pull left and allow bikes through, first two get through then she pulls out and clips back wheel of third bike.

now my comment was why was he passing so close that her just pulling out could clip his rear wheel. yes she shouldn't have pulled out before checking but had the rider been riding in a defensive manner i believe he would still be riding today.

but of course it is all the asian tourists who are causing all our accidents

RGVforme

13th April 2016, 18:43

rastuscat

14th April 2016, 08:10

The two second rule is a rare sight on most Hawkes Bay roads.A Panelbeater mate would stand outside his shop on wet raining days rubbing his hands together muttering under his breath"works picking up I see".....If you want to get tailgated or just plain pushed off the road on your bike chuck a L plate on and go for a cruise around Napier or Hastings sometime....Its like a Target to most drivers here.I know a couple of learner riders who simply took them off and found they got left alone a lot more.

There's a can of fish bait.

I've had just as many clients tell me they feel safer using the L plate as I've had telling me they feel safer without.

I suspect people who don't want to use them find reasons to support their position. It's human to do so.

Possibly people think it's naff using an L plate, so they suddenly start telling everyone it's safer not to use one, instead of just being honest and revealing they don't want to use one because it's embarrassing.

Or maybe it is safer without. But I doubt it. I'll pop one on my 1200RT and see if it's less safe. I really doubt that I'll notice a difference.

I don't get victimized on the road because I don't behave like a victim. Ditto for following too close. I just do it. Those thinking I'm sitting too far back need to suck it up. I keep the legal distance.

Akzle

14th April 2016, 08:17

I keep the legal distance.

yes. But if they legalised tailgaiting, would you?

Or do you do it because it's sensible?

Big Dog

14th April 2016, 10:58

There's a can of fish bait.

I've had just as many clients tell me they feel safer using the L plate as I've had telling me they feel safer without.

I suspect people who don't want to use them find reasons to support their position. It's human to do so.

Possibly people think it's naff using an L plate, so they suddenly start telling everyone it's safer not to use one, instead of just being honest and revealing they don't want to use one because it's embarrassing.

Or maybe it is safer without. But I doubt it. I'll pop one on my 1200RT and see if it's less safe. I really doubt that I'll notice a difference.

I don't get victimized on the road because I don't behave like a victim. Ditto for following too close. I just do it. Those thinking I'm sitting too far back need to suck it up. I keep the legal distance.
On the rt you probably get a bit of additional space from those who can't tell you from a part troll bike.

Try gn250. Riding add normally add you can manage.
Try again pretending to be a noob.
Chuck an L on and repeat.

I'd be keen to hear your results. Here are mine.

Did that on my wife's bike because I was curious about the claims of some newer riders.

With an L in auckland on a gn250: I got more patience when I made obvious mistakes but tailgated way more. More importantly people took bigger risks to get past, even where they where not being held up and were only going to hold me up once past.

Tried the same on the Hayabusa and the DR. Made no difference... except for a licence check at a gas station.

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RGVforme

14th April 2016, 17:17

There's a can of fish bait.

I've had just as many clients tell me they feel safer using the L plate as I've had telling me they feel safer without.

I suspect people who don't want to use them find reasons to support their position. It's human to do so.

Possibly people think it's naff using an L plate, so they suddenly start telling everyone it's safer not to use one, instead of just being honest and revealing they don't want to use one because it's embarrassing.

Or maybe it is safer without. But I doubt it. I'll pop one on my 1200RT and see if it's less safe. I really doubt that I'll notice a difference.

I don't get victimized on the road because I don't behave like a victim. Ditto for following too close. I just do it. Those thinking I'm sitting too far back need to suck it up. I keep the legal distance.

Your last paragraph rings true Rastuscat.....Im on my L plate have been for years due to licence expiry right before the new L changes and being a born again.This plus a range of other riding exp like Trail mx farm onroad road racing sees me far from the wobbly slow fear stricken victim you sight above.This however is a good description of the people I see and know getting pushed around with the yellow card fitted cars and bikes....I ride with my L plate fitted and see people assume im going to be wobbly and slow thus try and bully past me most of the time.Usually at sets of lights and intersections.When I ride off assertively up to the posted speed ect ect most back off some don't!.
Buying a highvis vest seemed to have more impact on drivers behavior around me.:weird:

Their a different breed of tintop operator in the Bay I tell yah and Im P endorsed drive cabs partime.Between that and riding I see some crazy shit for two such small towns with rush minute traffic.
Bring your best gear and check your insurance if you pop over you may need it and message us up.I can show you some of our best hot spots.
:msn-wink:

Tazz

14th April 2016, 18:09

Tazz

14th April 2016, 18:17

Funny. Here's my take on the speed limits in NZ.

You can go as fast as you want as long as you don't go faster than the number on the sign. Simple.

And you can go as slow as you want as long as you don't hold people up. Equally simple.

Donuts.

In that case, because it's all arbitrary including the chosen limit, you could be considered to be holding me up at 99kms, yet you're speeding at 101, and good luck staying at 100 exactly even if your speedo is 100% correct (or at least as exactly wrong as mine).

The system is flawed and not simple. Simple.

Yes that could be considered being a little pedantic, but if you're going to have all these rules and enforce them so strictly on people, sometimes at the cost of their job, then maybe they should be more relaxed to reflect the lack of accuracy? I dunno, it seems simple to me.

RGVforme

14th April 2016, 22:01

On the rt you probably get a bit of additional space from those who can't tell you from a part troll bike.

Try gn250. Riding add normally add you can manage.
Try again pretending to be a noob.
Chuck an L on and repeat.

I'd be keen to hear your results. Here are mine.

Did that on my wife's bike because I was curious about the claims of some newer riders.

With an L in auckland on a gn250: I got more patience when I made obvious mistakes but tailgated way more. More importantly people took bigger risks to get past, even where they where not being held up and were only going to hold me up once past.

Tried the same on the Hayabusa and the DR. Made no difference... except for a licence check at a gas station.

Sent via tapatalk.

A good point...Very much like slow truck syndrome just got to get past cause you look slow....Most tailgating must be up to the mindset of the person doing the 'Gating' and the type of vehicle you are in....Used to be a two car family one Toyota corolla one Hilux surf with front and rear aftermarket steel nudge bars scary looking things they were....Used to notice id get tailgated far more in the corolla than the surf and a bit of brake check in the surf had a more instant result...Seemed the sobering thought of slamming into the rear bars and coming off second best if I did turn out to be a road rager and jammed on the picks was enough to sway most Idiots.

L plate on a bike the size of a DR650 does seem to put a few off but mostly no.....Scooter noobs who even ride in the drivers side wheel track at 50kms in town don't stand a snowballs here.Most just get left and stay there the mad bastards.

What a good thread OP.....:msn-wink:

ellipsis

14th April 2016, 22:21

..if we had a decent rail system I wouldn't ride anywhere...

Big Dog

15th April 2016, 01:36

..if we had a decent rail system I wouldn't ride anywhere...
Dem carriages tailgate like all buggery eh?

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Kickaha

15th April 2016, 05:46

..if we had a decent rail system I wouldn't ride anywhere...

You have a rail trail out to your place, you could use that

ellipsis

15th April 2016, 08:31

You have a rail trail out to your place, you could use that

...my wife and I do a ten k pedal down to Catons Bay and back pretty regularly when the fair weather pedalers have hung their bikes up for the winter...too much traffic on it over summer...fukn tailgaters...

Swoop

16th April 2016, 22:09

If only cunts would keep left unless overtaking :facepalm:
Spot on!
:yes:

Instead of saying "intimidate", say "bully" - because that is what they are doing, they are bullying you...
Yup. I happily "bully" twats who cannot comprehend the "keep left unless passing" rule.

Fuck, I miss my bullbars.

ruaphu

17th April 2016, 00:00

Ah the good ole 2sec rule, saved my arse many times.

Taranaki, Out n about in the car tonite, was crusin up Burgess hill over taking lanes, that has a left and right turns immediately at the top, at the end of the overtaking section, just outright shithouse roading design.

Every fecker is goin like the clappers cos of a camper and a van up front. I back off the gas making a large space in front an watchin these turds battle it out believing someone is gonna collide with something.

The lanes start to converge, still five or so cars still attempting to over take. Nec minut, van on the brakes indicating left and the camper indicating to go right, and wha la, massive cluster fuck ensues with all tinnies on the brakes in a panic.

Fuck me, if some half wit on one of those little 300 yamie road bikes complete with L plate flies past and inserts himself directly in the centre of it all! Sheer panic now, cars swerving, braking, tooting and a liddle bike in the middle weaving through the mayhem. How the fuck he didn't get side swiped, rear ended or end up under something beggars belief!!! Just sheer dumb luck as there weren't no skill in what he done, fuckin halfwit!

That said, it seems to be the naki way. The two second rule is a joke in the naki. Seems the only thing peoples abide by is the 'do as i fuckin want to' rule.

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ruaphu

17th April 2016, 00:03

Spot on!
:yes:

Fuck, I miss my bullbars.

Yep ditto.

Berries

17th April 2016, 00:20

Fucking cagers.

gonzo_akl

24th June 2016, 19:04

Saw this Facebook today about braking, hopefully the link works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QgSbgio23c

rastuscat

30th June 2016, 20:08

Saw that on FB a couple of weeks ago. Must be doing the rounds.

Salient points. Every day I see riders tucked in behind vehicles. Lots of reasons not to, nil reasons to, but it happens anyway.

I reckon following distance is the thing that could make the biggest difference to our collective safety.

Gremlin

30th June 2016, 20:12

I reckon following distance is the thing that could make the biggest difference to our collective safety.
It simply gives you more time to react. So if you're not paying attention, or looking far enough forward, you have more time to realise, to brake, or get yourself out of the situation.

It's also smoother, as you can soak up small variations in speed, rather than braking, which makes the vehicle behind you brake, then the others brake, and so on.

Akzle

30th June 2016, 20:17

who the fuck uses brakes.... that shit just slows you down

pritch

1st July 2016, 17:00

Fuck me, if some half wit on one of those little 300 yamie road bikes complete with L plate flies past and inserts himself directly in the centre of it all! Sheer panic now, cars swerving, braking, tooting and a liddle bike in the middle weaving through the mayhem. How the fuck he didn't get side swiped, rear ended or end up under something beggars belief!!! Just sheer dumb luck as there weren't no skill in what he done, fuckin halfwit!

You paint a vivid picture: glad I wasn't there.

I was following a few cars in town today when a car marked 'Jennian Homes' suddenly stopped in the middle of a bend for no apparent reason. Everybody was awake enough that no panel damage ensued. Maybe he was just testing us. Another day he may get a different result?

Mines-fastr

17th July 2016, 21:16

awayatc

18th July 2016, 09:07

What's wrong with that...?

Maha

18th July 2016, 09:18

So why do the majority of us follow too close?

Trying to keep :eek:
In all seriousness, it is probably ignorance) the lack of knowing the unruly potential of that particular habit.

Moi

18th July 2016, 09:30

What's wrong with that...?

Nothing...

until something goes wrong - then it's someone else's fault.

russd7

18th July 2016, 17:50

Its better to lead during daylight and follow at night,.

nope, better to lead whether it is day or night, that way there is less chance of target fixation and you are not having to play catchup. some of the most memorable trips i have done were in the wee small hours of the morning.

WristTwister

18th July 2016, 18:44

I remember my instructor telling me that drivers just get into the habit of following closer, because for as many years they've been driving that close behind other people they've never had an accident so they just don't perceive the risk anymore.

granstar

18th July 2016, 20:42

IMO best is to follow at some distance behind so you can ride your own ride, and have reaction time up your sleeve.
Or as with most, will pass slower traffic to gain my own space, here I will follow close pre- passing while checking ahead before crossing the centre line.
Traffic sitting behind your arse is annoying especially when plenty of opportunities to pass you safely are there, i'll even pull over at times to allow a pass to give me my riding space back.
Trucks often do this in courtesy,however they often pull into the gravel berm, spraying you with dust and gravel.