Low volume vehicle certification

[Arborist]

My first post so hi to all. I appear to have descended into a bureaucratic nightmare. I have returned to biking after over 20 years with a lovely FJ1200. The bike needed some updating so I have done the usual mods, R1 callipers, 180 rear tyre and wheel etc and its a vast improvement on standard equipment. I also removed all of the ABS system as this was not operating anyway. Today when getting a fresh WOF, I I was told that as the bike has no ABS, it now needs to be re-certified at a cost of over 500 dollars. This seems a bit harsh considering that ABS was optional and the braking now is far better. Any ideas how to get around this nonsense greatfully received.

[Tazz]

Try another WOF place is about all you can do. There is no room in the law for common sense, what is written is what is written.

[Laava]

See if you can get a written dispensation from someone in nzta by writing to them and citing the optional abs on that model and it's age. It won't cost anything and it might get a result? But continue researching it first?

[Arborist]

Oh, it gets better, I'm in Queenstown and the nearest certifier is in Dunedin and he needs 2 days to check the bike, take photos, record details of any new part's and charge me a fortune for this, he doesn't have email and he specialises in vintage Chevrolets . This is yet another example of being gouged due to bureaucratic nonsense. Why cant small mods be assessed by the WOF folks and noted on the records! So, its looking like around 700 dollars, 2 days off work, accommodation just for someone to record the changes made before I can go back to VTNZ and get my WOF......... ridiculous!

[jellywrestler]

Oh, it gets better, I'm in Queenstown and the nearest certifier is in Dunedin and he needs 2 days to check the bike, take photos, record details of any new part's and charge me a fortune for this, he doesn't have email and he specialises in vintage Chevrolets . This is yet another example of being gouged due to bureaucratic nonsense. Why cant small mods be assessed by the WOF folks and noted on the records! So, its looking like around 700 dollars, 2 days off work, accommodation just for someone to record the changes made before I can go back to VTNZ and get my WOF......... ridiculous!

shout him a trip to queenstown then

[Blackbird]

I'll send the link to this post to a close friend who is involved with LV certification at NZTA - he's also a keen biker. At least you'll get a clear answer irrespective of whether it's the one you're hoping for!

Good luck!

[Arborist]

Thanks Blackbird, much appreciated. I will go back to VTNZ and plead my case tomorrow, worth a try as I really wanted to get the bike on the road this weekend!

[Drew]

Thanks Blackbird, much appreciated. I will go back to VTNZ and plead my case tomorrow, worth a try as I really wanted to get the bike on the road this weekend!

Plead what case? A warrant inspector is not legally allowed to give you a warrant when you have removed the ABS.

[Arborist]

Hmmm, is it illegal? With ABS connected the lever came back to the bar and actually stopping was a bonus. The ABS on these bikes is renowned as being rubbish. I guess I could 've covered the ABS stickers and the ABS light and nobody would be the wiser, you live and learn......

[Drew]

Hmmm, is it illegal? With ABS connected the lever came back to the bar and actually stopping was a bonus. The ABS on these bikes is renowned as being rubbish. I guess I could 've covered the ABS stickers and the ABS light and nobody would be the wiser, you live and learn......

Right or wrong it's in the warrant regs that non working ABS where it was OEM is a fail, when not certified.

[Arborist]

Soooooo, this is a 1993 bike in damn good condition that may have to be scrapped as getting parts is near impossible, seems rather petty, oh well!

[RDJ]

Soooooo, this is a 1993 bike in damn good condition that may have to be scrapped as getting parts is near impossible, seems rather petty, oh well!

Bureaucrats specialize in petty... sorry to hear this.

[R650R]

Right or wrong it's in the warrant regs that non working ABS where it was OEM is a fail, when not certified.

Yes you are right. Anything fitted as factory standard be it high stop brake light, ABS, airbags must be functional and cant be removed cause your ok with driving without it.
Like any law its to cover the lowest common denominator, if you start making exceptions it becomes complicated.

Reminds me of truck drivers that like to go fast through corners so they unplug their ABS/EBS trailer cable (some can be bit sensitive to g forces) and then complain when they get ticket....
Its kinda like turning up to a wof with slick tyres cause its summer time and not raining today.

The certifier needs a long time as he's signing his name to your mods.... and as far as he is concerned it might not just be the abs that has been tinkered with.
You've got all the teenage boyracer home mechanics to blame for all this....

Thank god they don't have a list of what bikes have a CAt conveter fitted as standard.....

[AllanB]

Thank god they don't have a list of what bikes have a CAt conveter fitted as standard.....

AMEN. But I may be stuffed anyway as the panel on the Termis state for racing use only .........

Meh - no WOF for 3 years on a new bike - pop the stock mufflers on then for a day :yes: Better yet - take it to the shop who sold me the pipes. Works for the HD boys.

[Arborist]

Ok, so any aftermarket upgrade item, exhaust, brakes, bodywork, suspension that alters the bike from its original condition requires the bike to be certified by a LLV technician?

[Mike.Gayner]

Ok, so any aftermarket upgrade item, exhaust, brakes, bodywork, suspension that alters the bike from its original condition requires the bike to be certified by a LLV technician?

Only vehicles that are modified beyond a certain safety threshold need LVV. Frankly it's a bit ridiculous that you think a braking system can be significantly modified, including removal of a pretty major safety system, without the need for certification.

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/suplementary_information/LVVTA_LVV_Cert_Threshold.pdf

edit: It's also worth noting that the WOF officials aren't being bureaucratic by refusing your WOF - to give you a WOF would be illegal and would threaten their livelihood, so you're being a little unfair. The information was out there before you made these modifications - it's your fault you didn't do your homework.

[Arborist]

The ABS wasn't working and getting replacement parts is near impossiblee, it was lethal as it was, now its safe.

[Mike.Gayner]

The ABS wasn't working and getting replacement parts is near impossiblee, it was lethal as it was, now its safe.

Now it's safe....according to you. The LVV certification is designed to prove that. Such a task is outside the scope of WOF work.

[Arborist]

That link refers to cars, not bikes. There is in fact no guidance notes for bikes, I've checked.

[Arborist]

Yes, according to me, ex engineer, ex mechanic, ex road racer............

[Drew]

Ok, so any aftermarket upgrade item, exhaust, brakes, bodywork, suspension that alters the bike from its original condition requires the bike to be certified by a LLV technician?

Pretty much. 15% power increase was the threshold from memory too. No matter how ya do it.

[Scuba_Steve]

Oh, it gets better, I'm in Queenstown and the nearest certifier is in Dunedin and he needs 2 days to check the bike, take photos, record details of any new part's and charge me a fortune for this, he doesn't have email and he specialises in vintage Chevrolets . This is yet another example of being gouged due to bureaucratic nonsense. Why cant small mods be assessed by the WOF folks and noted on the records! So, its looking like around 700 dollars, 2 days off work, accommodation just for someone to record the changes made before I can go back to VTNZ and get my WOF......... ridiculous!

WoF is there to check vehicle safety extort money for nothing, this is proved doubly so by the existence of LVV Cert... If WoF place can't tell if a vehicle is safe they shouldn't exist!

[AllanB]

The ABS wasn't working and getting replacement parts is near impossiblee, it was lethal as it was, now its safe.

ABS will be mandatory very soon - it is about to be in Europe. Removing it will be a headache.

Try Ebay for parts. What exactly was wrong with the system?


Bikes get away with a shit load of mods in NZ without alarming the WOF people. Lets keep it that way ;)

[Arborist]

I checked all connections, bled all lines and it still didn't work. Its a know problem on these bikes and the recommendation on all Yamaha FJ sites is to remove it and return to standard brakes.

[Mike.Gayner]

If WoF place can't tell if a vehicle is safe they shouldn't exist!

Again, a bit unfair. WOF's check safety on the premise that all vehicles entering the country are certified. So it's easy for a WOF mechanic to say that a vehicle is safe based on the fact that engineers have already tested/examined the design, and as long as it's within ordinary parameters (brakes pads are good, tyres have tread, etc) it can be easily deemed safe. But WOF mechanics are not engineers, or if they are they are not being paid to be engineers in a WOF.

How is a WOF mechanic supposed to tell, visually, if someone's cut up frame is safe? Or totally custom springer front end? Or brakes that are entirely modified with a major safety system removed?

Should they just take OP's word for it? I mean, he's a "ex engineer, ex mechanic, ex road racer" so surely his word is good enough, right? :tugger:

[BMWST?]

Oh, it gets better, I'm in Queenstown and the nearest certifier is in Dunedin and he needs 2 days to check the bike, take photos, record details of any new part's and charge me a fortune for this, he doesn't have email and he specialises in vintage Chevrolets . This is yet another example of being gouged due to bureaucratic nonsense. Why cant small mods be assessed by the WOF folks and noted on the records! So, its looking like around 700 dollars, 2 days off work, accommodation just for someone to record the changes made before I can go back to VTNZ and get my WOF......... ridiculous!
you say ridiculous.I say,not knowing your background,or the source of the components that you have updated your bike with,sounds fair.Other roads users lives depend on your mods being correct,not to mention your own.

[Arborist]

Should they just take OP's word for it? I mean, he's a "ex engineer, ex mechanic, ex road racer" so surely his word is good enough, right? :tugger:[/QUOTE]

Ok, hard core biker Gaynor, thanks for your opinion, I really appreciate it........

[awayatc]

Delivery of message may not be of your liking,
But the message itself is fair enough.
Only complaint may be that certification places are to few and far between....

But when you choose to live in parts of south island...I.e Queenstown,
You chose to live in parts unspoiled and far from city life....

This is one of the downsides .....
It's a package deal.

[Moi]

Delivery of message may not be of your liking,
But the message itself is fair enough.
Only complaint may be that certification places are to few and far between....

But when you choose to live in parts of south island...I.e Queenstown,
You chose to live in parts unspoiled and far from city life....

This is one of the downsides .....
It's a package deal.

Must spread more rep... :niceone:

[nodrog]

how did they know you had modified it?

[Arborist]

Hmmm.... Its been an enlightening debate, though it seems to have gone a bit off-track. Just to confirm, the original gentleman that purchased my bike from new chose to have ABS fitted as an option, meaning he got some extra electrics, brake pipe and a huge pump device. When I purchased the bike these extra parts were not functioning so I have removed them returning the bike back to the standard model with lines running direct to the callipers from the master cylinders. This is not complicated or tricky stuff, no welding or fabrication, just attaching brake lines. The bike is now a standard version which could have been purchased at the time and can easily be assessed by a competent WOF inspector. So why do I have to proceed with all of the additional bullshit when lets face it, it will be passed as acceptable. I understand the argument about cowboys creating death traps, this isn't even close to that category!

[Arborist]

Blackbird, thanks for all your help, its greatly appreciated, you're a gent!

[Tazz]

Yes, according to me, ex engineer, ex mechanic, ex road racer............

But not a certified inspector eh :bleh:
The next guy that rolls in could be the worlds worst sandwich artist at the local Subway, the same rules cover you both.

I'm passing through Queenstown in 1.5/2 weeks. If it fits on the trailer I can take it to Dunedin for you if that helps.

[Tazz]

So why do I have to proceed with all of the additional bullshit when lets face it, it will be passed as acceptable. I understand the argument about cowboys creating death traps, this isn't even close to that category!

Because......bureaucracy :brick:

[Arborist]

how did they know you had modified it?

I'm guessing the ABS marking in the side panels arouse suspicion followed by the light on the dash and the lack of additional brake pipes etc.......... Maybe time to cover the ABS with a sticker and remove the ABS light from the dash, save myself a fortune and a lot of hassle!

[Blackbird]

Did you see my PM's?

[pritch]

Did you see my PM's?

Presumably, 'cause he thanked you and said yer a gent. But we knew that. :innocent:

[Blackbird]

Presumably, 'cause he thanked you and said yer a gent. But we knew that. :innocent:

Ooops..... need glasses:weird: Oh, wait a minute, I'm wearing them :rolleyes:

[Arborist]

Yep, cheers Blackbird, I don't seem to have the privilege of making PM's as I'm new.

As an aside to those knowledgeable folks who seem to think that years of experience and knowledge doesn't count for anything, you will also undoubtedly know that anyone seriously involved in road racing is very focused on safety, I'm no exception, pedantic and obsessed with detail. Therefore, I admit I struggle with having to take a lot of trouble to get someone of possibly lesser expertise to rubber stamp my work......... though this is the kiwi way and how many people make a living in NZ....... I await the vociferous replies

[Ocean1]

though this is the kiwi way and how many people make a living in NZ

Only recently. And at that we're 25 years behind the rest of the "civilized" world. Catching up fast, though...

[Moi]

... As an aside to those knowledgeable folks who seem to think that years of experience and knowledge doesn't count for anything, you will also undoubtedly know that anyone seriously involved in road racing is very focused on safety, I'm no exception, pedantic and obsessed with detail. Therefore, I admit I struggle with having to take a lot of trouble to get someone of possibly lesser expertise to rubber stamp my work... though this is the kiwi way and how many people make a living in NZ... I await the vociferous replies

I and probably the WoF testing station inspector don't know you from a bar of soap. Neither of us know your skills, abilities, expertise or experience. However, the one thing the WoF inspector does know is that if he passes your bike and in doing so falsifies his paperwork then he is putting his head on the block. I'd suggest you consider this from his point-of-view, would you falsify a legal document and by doing so jeopardise your work position, your income and your standing among your peers? He has to follow the rules and these rules require you to do specific things in order to have your bike pass a WoF - it's a simple case of jumping through the hoops.

[sidecar bob]

WoF is there to check vehicle safety extort money for nothing

Youre a fuckin idiot with a chip on your shoulder, you should stick to that.
Apparently according to your stoner logic we should all be able to drive vehicles in whatever the fuck state we choose, while sharing the road with others.
What a fuckin dickhead.

[98tls]

Ok, so any aftermarket upgrade item, exhaust, brakes, bodywork, suspension that alters the bike from its original condition requires the bike to be certified by a LLV technician?

Depends who you take it to,ive a 98TLS with later model GSXR front end/radial calipers,aftermarket rims etc thats never been queried.If me i would remove the stickers and try elsewhere.That said i know nothing of ABS or the removal of it etc etc so maybe its best dealt with by an expert...dunno.

[Scuba_Steve]

Youre a fuckin idiot with a chip on your shoulder, you should stick to that.
Apparently according to your stoner logic we should all be able to drive vehicles in whatever the fuck state we choose, while sharing the road with others.
What a fuckin dickhead.

Seems you need to stop packing ya vagina with sand... No we have a vehicle standard to keep to & WoF doesn't change this, it is no more than 'security theater' & serves no real purpose as proven by many studies & other countries

[Kickaha]

it is no more than 'security theater' & serves no real purpose as proven by many studies & other countries
Having seen what has been picked up by mechanics on WOF inspections I think we'd be fucking stupid to abandon them

[sidecar bob]

Seems you need to stop packing ya vagina with sand... No we have a vehicle standard to keep to & WoF doesn't change this, it is no more than 'security theater' & serves no real purpose as proven by many studies & other countries

Clearly you have done several thousand W.O.F inspections over twenty plus years & found no dangerous or life threatening faults with the vehicles.
Whereas I have done the same, but with different results.
P.s, my wife has a sweet wee vagina with absolutely not a grain of sand to be found.

[OddDuck]

Seems you need to stop packing ya vagina with sand... No we have a vehicle standard to keep to & WoF doesn't change this, it is no more than 'security theater' & serves no real purpose as proven by many studies & other countries

Mate. You are kidding us... Please?

Vehicles might be imported used, or sold new, to a standard. Give 'em a few years and guess what, they probably need some attention, or they aren't at that standard any more... that's why we have regular checks.

Something you can count on, in this harsh world: there are some absolute fucking idiots out there. People who will save five bucks and let their brakes go.

WOFs are necessary. Same as driver's and rider's licenses. Not having this stuff means... well, shit. Take your pick. A truck tyre coming off and flying straight at you? Brake failure on an oncoming car and it skids wide of the corner, head on into your lane?

WOFs aren't there to keep you down. They are there to keep you safe from other people being cheapskates or stupid.

[sidecar bob]

Land Transport Agencey VIRM section 8.1 22. An ABS component is damaged, insecure or missing.
Sadly, I guess that's all we need to know, in this case it is a bit retarded, but rules were made because some idiots did idiotic things which required rules to be made.

[jellywrestler]

Land Transport Agencey VIRM section 8.1 22. An ABS component is damaged, insecure or missing.
Sadly, I guess that's all we need to know, in this case it is a bit retarded, but rules were made because some idiots did idiotic things which required rules to be made.

ah yes, i remember well the first road racing sidecar that turned up with home made ABS, way before we'd heard of them....

[jellywrestler]

Just to confirm, the original gentleman that purchased my bike from new chose to have ABS fitted as an option, meaning he got some extra electrics, brake pipe and a huge pump device.


the light on the dash and the lack of additional brake pipes etc.........

so did he have to get another dash with a light in it or what?

[Drew]

A warrant inspector is not meant to check the engineering of a vehicle. Merely that it's components aren't fucked.

[sidecar bob]

ah yes, i remember well the first road racing sidecar that turned up with home made ABS, way before we'd heard of them....

I'm guessing the catch bottle vented on to the brake pads, that's about the only abs a sidecar builder could invent.

[Kickaha]

I'm guessing the catch bottle vented on to the brake pads, that's about the only abs a sidecar builder could invent.

Sounds a bit advanced for a few of them

[Drew]

I'm guessing the catch bottle vented on to the brake pads, that's about the only abs a sidecar builder could invent.

Bullshit. My brakes flat out aren't good enough to lock a wheel.

[sidecar bob]

A warrant inspector is not meant to check the engineering of a vehicle. Merely that it's components aren't fucked.

And that its modifications comply with the current law of the land.

[eldog]

Bullshit. My brakes flat out aren't good enough to lock a wheel.
Saw a guy stop a mini once when the brakes failed, opened the door and put his (boot) foot down, quite effective, it stopped not in a hurry though:killingme

[eldog]

And that its modifications comply with the current law of the land.
Is that the regulations or the legal speak?

paint it black, if they can't see it, it ain't there.

[eldog]

Land Transport Agencey VIRM section 8.1 22. An ABS component is damaged, insecure or missing.
Sadly, I guess that's all we need to know, in this case it is a bit retarded, but rules were made because some idiots did idiotic things which required rules to be made.

Often wondered how a person could check ABS without either taking it for a spin or on a set of rollers.

[eldog]

Clearly you have done several thousand W.O.F inspections over twenty plus years & found no dangerous or life threatening faults with the vehicles.
Whereas I have done the same, but with different results.

Yep I prefer to have my vehicles checked regularily, you can get used to something gradually failing over time, whereas someone else will see it as plain as day(often having see it before).
Quite amazed by what is found when I get the bikes checked.

[sidecar bob]

Often wondered how a person could check ABS without either taking it for a spin or on a set of rollers.

Read this shit. Item 32.
https://vehicle-inspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/brakes/service-brake-and-parking-brake
So, if the abs lamp remains on, or doesn't operate at all, it's a fail essentially.
Nobody is required to do skids down the road in somebody else's vehicle to prove a point.
If I had been presenting the vehicle in question for a wof, I would have made sure that the abs lamp had been removed entirely before presenting the bike for inspection.
That's what has brought our punter here unstuck I'd guess.

[eldog]

Read this shit. Item 32.
https://vehicle-inspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof-and-cof/motorcycles/brakes/service-brake-and-parking-brake
So, if the abs lamp remains on, or doesn't operate at all, it's a fail essentially.

I did read the the whole VTNZ manual on WOFs etc over ten years ago.

yes items 22 and 32.
Ok you can look at the light.

My thoughts were and I don't want to start an argument, I am no mechanic but I am interested, you have to make sure abs/light doesn't check if it receives a signal from the pickup at the start-car is usually stationary.

Seeing some of the newer tech in cars today the abs would be able to tell if the car was moving and no pickup.

Do you check to make sure the brakes are controlled by the abs? I mean is it general practise to physically check they work rather than rely on the light?
I suppose soon traction control checks will be on the cards as these become more widespread.

you added a bit more to your answer when I came back to it.

Yes more people would remove it, however ABS is being added to vehicle decals and internal signage to cars as well as airbags etc (surely no one removes them after the deploy and pretends it didn't happen-not forgetting to get a second hand replacement steering wheel etc)

just like no one used to wind back the clocks on their cars....or bikes.

[pritch]

Well many hereabout will lack the faith in the WoF system that some seemingly blindly adhere to. Remember the braided brake cable fiasco? Sheer idiocy on the part of the Department - and on the part of the WoF checkers.

The Department suddenly required some obscure standard that nobody had ever heard of. So the checkers wanted to see evidence of a standard. Didn't matter what standard, so long as there was a standard. Of course none of the reputable manufacturers mark their cables with a standard. So suddenly braided cables were virtually illegal.

It later, much later, transpired that the obscure standard required fittings to be swaged. Who knew?

So if you have any part to play in the industry be aware you are still living this down. The whole farce was idiocy of the highest order. No good getting on your high horse because we know exactly how good you are, and it's not pretty.

Anybody who came along since can do a search because it should all be quite comprehensively documented in the KB archives.

[98tls]

Well many hereabout will lack the faith in the WoF system that some seemingly blindly adhere to. Remember the braided brake cable fiasco? Sheer idiocy on the part of the Department - and on the part of the WoF checkers.

The Department suddenly required some obscure standard that nobody had ever heard of. So the checkers wanted to see evidence of a standard. Didn't matter what standard, so long as there was a standard. Of course none of the reputable manufacturers mark their cables with a standard. So suddenly braided cables were virtually illegal.

It later, much later, transpired that the obscure standard required fittings to be swaged. Who knew?

So if you have any part to play in the industry be aware you are still living this down. The whole farce was idiocy of the highest order. No good getting on your high horse because we know exactly how good you are, and it's not pretty.

Anybody who came along since can do a search because it should all be quite comprehensively documented in the KB archives.

Another was the tailight lens thing :wacko: Was refused a wof then rung up a month later with apologies.

[jellywrestler]

I'm guessing the catch bottle vented on to the brake pads, that's about the only abs a sidecar builder could invent.

no it was well thought out, the Graham Brothers had some techy guy on board and were using car/truck technology, also remember the time when Ash Voices wife would watch from the stand and tell Westicle what line Scrivy was taking, she had a walky talky thingamy and would let Westy know so he could change lines to Block.....

[jellywrestler]

Bullshit. My brakes flat out aren't good enough to lock a wheel.

or you aren't...

[old rig]

no it was well thought out, the Graham Brothers had some techy guy on board and were using car/truck technology, also remember the time when Ash Voices wife would watch from the stand and tell Westicle what line Scrivy was taking, she had a walky talky thingamy and would let Westy know so he could change lines to Block.....
The modern talk is an air bag

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[sidecar bob]

Well many hereabout will lack the faith in the WoF system that some seemingly blindly adhere to. Remember the braided brake cable fiasco? Sheer idiocy on the part of the Department - and on the part of the WoF checkers.

The Department suddenly required some obscure standard that nobody had ever heard of. So the checkers wanted to see evidence of a standard. Didn't matter what standard, so long as there was a standard. Of course none of the reputable manufacturers mark their cables with a standard. So suddenly braided cables were virtually illegal.

It later, much later, transpired that the obscure standard required fittings to be swaged. Who knew?

So if you have any part to play in the industry be aware you are still living this down. The whole farce was idiocy of the highest order. No good getting on your high horse because we know exactly how good you are, and it's not pretty.

Anybody who came along since can do a search because it should all be quite comprehensively documented in the KB archives.
I'm not on a high horse & living fuck all down.
Like the police, all we are hired by the government to do is uphold their policy on any given day.
Just because it is govt policy doesn't mean I agree with it, in fact I vehemently disagree with the 1.5mm minimum tread policy, it should be 3mm, but I am daily forced to wof vehicles with what I consider to be totally rooted tyres.
It's just a fuckin job & a very small part of mine, but it must be done according to current govt policy. Write to your MP if you don't like it.

[sidecar bob]

Westicle what line Scrivy was taking, she had a walky talky thingamy and would let Westy know so he could change lines to Block.....

Yeah, he was a weasel of the highest order.

[admenk]

Assuming you've checked out the UK FJ Owners club site, http://fjclub.co.uk/, they have a load of useful info, newsletters etc as well as parts for sale, which they will post here. Had the ABS FJ back in the UK and it was a trooper, still got my FJ1100 chop over here in NZ so I find the owners club really useful. Went through the whole LVV thing with the chop, and yes, it is a pain, but that's bureaucracy for you! Best wishes with it all. :niceone:

[AllanB]

Braided Lines. During the original debate I remember seeing a study concluding the bolt together line fittings were stronger than the swagged ones.

I had a set of the bolt banjo type fittings line and a compliance number confirmation from the maker (after I requested it). WOF person would say fail - I'd produce the paperwork, guy would grab another WOF guy, within 5 minutes all WOF inspectors were huddling together reading the paper, pointing at me. Eventually the original guy would stroll over and pass my bike.

Two years back a VINZ inspector tried to fail my bike because it had bar end mirrors - not original. This mate laughed at him when he asked him and stated it's got mirrors - pass it. Ironically he had not even looked sideways at the rowdy Yoshi pipes. Go figure.

[scumdog]

Bullshit. My brakes flat out aren't good enough to lock a wheel.

Limp wrists huh?- not strong enough to get enough pressure to lock the brakes...

[eldog]

I'm not on a high horse & living fuck all down.
Like the police, all we are hired by the government to do is uphold their policy on any given day.
Just because it is govt policy doesn't mean I agree with it, in fact I vehemently disagree with the 1.5mm minimum tread policy, it should be 3mm, but I am daily forced to wof vehicles with what I consider to be totally rooted tyres.
It's just a fuckin job & a very small part of mine, but it must be done according to current govt policy. Write to your MP if you don't like it.
I would agree, seems to be backward that you would see all sorts of crap, and no one seems to want to recognise your experience and alter/look at policy.
you, police/ambos etc would all see cause and effect. Pointless really as there are quite a few who flout even the basic policy.
yeah, 3mm is when I start replacing them esp coming up to winter.

my bike ones will last till summer then change-just checked depth this thread reminded me to check.

[jellywrestler]

Yeah, he was a weasel of the highest order.

i used to fuckeing cringe when this happened as you well know there's not a inch left up scrivys sleeve when braking so when Westy would pull over that side is was dynamite.

[pritch]

Like the police, all we are hired by the government to do is uphold their policy on any given day.


"I was just following orders", didn't work at Nuremburg and it doesn't wash now.

The people who work at the department in charge of all this must have some mechanical knowledge - but they won't be the best mechanics around. Just as the best builders do not become building inspectors, and the lawyers and accountants who work for the Government tend to be those who couldn't get a job anywhere else.

The people who receive suspect pronouncements from on high need to question them. If they just nod along the idiocy continues and and you're all tarred with the same brush. And deservedly so.

This isn't personal, it's just that the industry is not a shining example of how things should be, although the OP will probably be starting to get the idea.

[Ocean1]

I vehemently disagree with the 1.5mm minimum tread policy, it should be 3mm, but I am daily forced to wof vehicles with what I consider to be totally rooted tyres.

Reckon bike tyre manufacturers are onto this, they make the fuckers with about 1.6mm tread to start with.

[Big Dog]

Limp wrists huh?- not strong enough to get enough pressure to lock the brakes...
I assumed it was harley stoppers. :innocent:

Sent via tapatalk.

[Big Dog]

Yep, cheers Blackbird, I don't seem to have the privilege of making PM's as I'm new.

As an aside to those knowledgeable folks who seem to think that years of experience and knowledge doesn't count for anything, you will also undoubtedly know that anyone seriously involved in road racing is very focused on safety, I'm no exception, pedantic and obsessed with detail. Therefore, I admit I struggle with having to take a lot of trouble to get someone of possibly lesser expertise to rubber stamp my work......... though this is the kiwi way and how many people make a living in NZ....... I await the vociferous replies
Why don't you get certified to be the certifier?
Then you can make all the changes you want without per review.

Bonus: bound to be able to help out others in similar predicaments as a side business.

Sent via tapatalk.

[Arborist]

Big Dog, I like the way you're going with this, yep I shall look further into this as perhaps my next career move....... Oh, no, just realised, I may have too much common sense!

Well, best I can say is thanks to everyone for a fascinating debate and a great start for me on this forum.

[Big Dog]

And that right there is why it cost so much and is so troublesome to get an LVV cert for your changes.
Most people with the skills and knowledge would rather be doing other things.

Sent via tapatalk.

[sidecar bob]

"I was just following orders", didn't work at Nuremburg and it doesn't wash now.

The people who work at the department in charge of all this must have some mechanical knowledge - but they won't be the best mechanics around. Just as the best builders do not become building inspectors, and the lawyers and accountants who work for the Government tend to be those who couldn't get a job anywhere else.

The people who receive suspect pronouncements from on high need to question them. If they just nod along the idiocy continues and and you're all tarred with the same brush. And deservedly so.

This isn't personal, it's just that the industry is not a shining example of how things should be, although the OP will probably be starting to get the idea.
Oh fuckin please, so gassing people to death & saving them from their own ignorance is one & the same now according to you? How does that arguing with an idiot saying go again?
Don't think we just go along blindly. I've brought to their attention that the most asymmetric vehicle on the road (a sidecar) isint allowed to run asymmetric tyres. Just chucked in there because someone wanted to throw their weight around & not for any logical reason.

[sidecar bob]

Why don't you get certified to be the certifier?
Then you can make all the changes you want without per review.

Bonus: bound to be able to help out others in similar predicaments as a side business.

Sent via tapatalk.

Yeah, he could end up like this fuckwit & attempt to drag the whole industry in to disrepute with him.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/76570323/fake-warrants-of-fitness-an-industrywide-issue-says-convicted-mechanic
I can assure you it most certainly isint "an industry wide problem"

[F5 Dave]

OK six pages on and no one has mentioned the blue spots. You can't change those without theoretically getting it certified.

I've seen some truly ropey brake caliper mounts people have thought suitable to bring to the racetrack. You can imagine what people show up with on roadbikes. Or cars with the shocks disabled, springs all but removed.

So when I put bluespots on my YZF SP it was rare enough an period close enough that most inspectors didn't notice. I will tell you to replace the master cylinder too. They should match to a 14mm. They feel real firm on the 5/8 I bet was std, but won't work half as well.

My 500 into 250 2 stroke required Lvv and was a drag but made sense to do.

[eldog]

Youre a fuckin idiot with a chip on your shoulder, you should stick to that.
Apparently according to your stoner logic we should all be able to drive vehicles in whatever the fuck state we choose, while sharing the road with others.
What a fuckin dickhead.

You forgot about then selling it to some poor unsuspecting sap.

Must admit though some of those WOF inspectors need to open eyes. Some can't find a certified nameplate when it's right in front of them.

[Big Dog]

Yeah, he could end up like this fuckwit & attempt to drag the whole industry in to disrepute with him.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/76570323/fake-warrants-of-fitness-an-industrywide-issue-says-convicted-mechanic
I can assure you it most certainly isint "an industry wide problem"
I think a vigorous testing program is a good thing.

I just don't get why of there are so many people who think they have all the requisite experience and knowledge but so few people who do the work.

I know I get important changes peer reviewed all the time. I don't always like the process. I don't always get the outcome I wanted.
I also don't make changes that could result in human casualties.

Sent via tapatalk.

[Big Dog]

You forgot about then selling it to some poor unsuspecting sap.

Must admit though some of those WOF inspectors need to open eyes. Some can't find a certified nameplate when it's right in front of them.
Egg Zachary.
Even if you are happy with the level of risk, the next owner deserves to know that your change has been independently reviewed and found safe.

Sent via tapatalk.

[AllanB]

Egg Zachary.
Even if you are happy with the level of risk, the next owner deserves to know that your change has been independently reviewed and found safe.

Sent via tapatalk.

That's a fair point. I'd made myself some rearset peg spacers for my Hornet and ran them for years. I took them off when trading it as I had no idea who would buy it and how they would use it. Absolutely confident of the work I did but I was not prepared to have some 130kg dude doing stand up wheelies on it ........
Another part never commented on at WOF time :-)

[Arborist]

OK six pages on and no one has mentioned the blue spots. You can't change those without theoretically getting it certified.

I've seen some truly ropey brake caliper mounts people have thought suitable to bring to the racetrack. You can imagine what people show up with on roadbikes. Or cars with the shocks disabled, springs all but removed.

So when I put bluespots on my YZF SP it was rare enough an period close enough that most inspectors didn't notice. I will tell you to replace the master cylinder too. They should match to a 14mm. They feel real firm on the 5/8 I bet was std, but won't work half as well.

My 500 into 250 2 stroke required Lvv and was a drag but made sense to do.

Hi FB Dave. The blue spots bolt straight onto the standard FJ forks, a direct replacement, no real need to be checked for 700 dollars. Also, of course I have matched these callipers up with a new master cylinder and braided lines. This is basic stuff that should easily be assessed at the WOF.