Why tourists turn right in front of trucks?

[rocketman1]

I have a concern at the recent fatalities involving tourists turning in front of trucks / or any vehicle, because Im a caring kiwi:)

Heres my reasoning. And it has nothing to do with looking left or right.
After driving in the USA I think I can figure the fatal logic of doing this tragic manouvre.
What I reason is that all is well when you are in a foreign country driving on the other side of the road.
The problem arises at right hand turns (in NZ ) and left hand turns in say, USA

What happened to me was that when turning left off the main road in the USA you instinctively look in your left hand rear vision mirror,
expecting a vehicle to be coming up from behind, ie in the left hand lane, you tend not to look ahead in the left hand lane ( because In NZ any traffic in that lane is going away from you, not towards you) and if you see a vehicle ahead in the other opposite left lane it doesnt immediately become an oncoming threat. This is real weird, and I have been in this situation for the first few days driving in the USA. You do get over it and sort it out in your brain. BUT it can cause a little confusion especially when you dont really know where you are going and trying to check out all the traffic signs etc. Several others I have spoken too have had the same thoughts.
How do you fix this temporary mind set I dont know, but it seems interesting that the tourists who have been killed here have only been here a day or so. Maybe its my small brain, but I sympathise for those involved.

[EJK]

There was a similar case with crows vs trucks.

Number of road kill study showed that 98% of the crows had been killed by impact with trucks, while only 2% were killed by an impact with a car. The crow's behavioural study found out that when crows eat road kill, they always have a look-out crow in a nearby tree to warn of approaching vehicle.

The conclusion was that while all the lookout crows could say "Cah," none could say "Truck.”.

[rambaldi]

There was a similar case with crows vs trucks.

Number of road kill study showed that 98% of the crows had been killed by impact with trucks, while only 2% were killed by an impact with a car. The crow's behavioural study found out that when crows eat road kill, they always have a look-out crow in a nearby tree to warn of approaching vehicle.

The conclusion was that while all the lookout crows could say "Cah," none could say "Truck.”.

Also the look outs would sometimes develop a taste for crows...

[MD]

I can sort of see what you mean in the OP. Tragic loses this week and those drivers will forever suffer from their mistakes. But sadly that's what they were - their mistakes. I've driven in USA and yes, it's bloody difficult and therefore demands 100% concentration.

However, using a little common sense I quickly figured out 1. concentrate 100% and 2 LOOK bloody everywhere before turning anywhere, and most importantly be totally aware of my surroundings and what other vehicles were doing at all times. My eyes were always scanning around, reminding myself how I should be driving esp. on what side

No matter what side of the road you usually drive on, no matter what side of the road you are currently driving on - a truck bearing down on you is a truck bearing down on you! What part of that is hard to comprehend? The Waikato one this week and the Twizel one, from the pictures of the intersections, both had good visibility in all directions. Maybe it's just me but whenever I see 10 tons of metal speeding towards me I notice it and my brain defaults to 'whatever you are planning make sure it doesn't involve being hit by that truck.

If people don't have the common sense to realise that they need to exercise more care in a given situation then maybe they should take the bus.

[Gremlin]

Not just tourists, there was that case where a mother pulled out in front of a truck in the Waikato.

You simply have to look. I did 14k ish in 6-7 weeks in the USA, and on the road I had no issues. The only place I got a little confused was in parking lots and exiting gas stations on the wrong section of tarmac. You simply gotta be careful... For the most part, all the other vehicles were pretty good clues.

Even in NZ, right turn at traffic lights, Christchurch has a lot more give way but free right turn whereas Auckland is constantly giving you green or red. You simply have to pay attention and as the driver/rider your responsibility...

[BMWST?]

this is human.Shit happens.I consider my self a careful attentive driver and rider .However recently in Melbourne i was so busy looking for lanes,signs,etc i drove through a red light.!I had no trouble out on the great Ocean road etc,but for a Wellingtonian driving in Melbourne was a real strain!The thought of having to do a hook turn dominated my thinking!I knew i had to turn right up ahead and was really looking for the lane markings,turning bays etc.

[PrincessBandit]

.............. you instinctively......,
expecting....., you tend not to...... especially when you dont really know where you are going.....


I think I have summarised your OP succinctly.

[Katman]

I came within a hairs breadth of pulling out in front of a large truck while driving around Europe.

I know exactly how easy it is to do.

[Bassmatt]

Yep, walked out in front of cars the first time in a right side of the road driving country. Didn't even think just instinctively looked right. :crazy:
I never really adjusted to it I just had to keep reminding myself and I still managed to do it again a couple of times.
just as well I didn't do any driving probably.

[rocketman1]

Yep, walked out in front of cars the first time in a right side of the road driving country. Didn't even think just instinctively looked right. :crazy:
I never really adjusted to it I just had to keep reminding myself and I still managed to do it again a couple of times.
just as well I didn't do any driving probably.

Yeah think of what will happen with a few Budweisers under your belt?

[eldog]

We may look but sometimes we don't see, the brain doesn't expect something and can blank it out. Sometimes there are things on our minds and we take shortcuts and then shit happens.:spanking:

poor buggers.....

[rocketman1]

We may look but sometimes we don't see, the brain doesn't expect something and can blank it out. Sometimes there are things on our minds and we take shortcuts and then shit happens.:spanking:

poor buggers.....

Agreed, It seems that looking and seeing are two different things.
I remember watching a documentary on the box, that shows a screen with little black dots popping up randomly all over the screen , one after the other, ie the size of motorcycle at 50m. The subject had to push a buzzer if they saw a dot. There were some people that only saw about 80% of the dots. Bloody amazing. It was nomally the older brigade that failed , but not always.

They put it down to the the floaters on your eyes, that block out the view of things.
Get rid of the floaters:)

Look twice , has some merit. Has to be pretty big floater to block out a truck !!!

[BMWST?]

another culprit is the wide A pillars in most modern cars,I try to keep all stickers etc well out of the way on the right hand side.only the wof stays there,i get rid of service stickers etc to the middle.The comnbination of a pillar and mirror can really block the view in some situations

[eldog]

Agreed, It seems that looking and seeing are two different things.
They put it down to the the floaters on your eyes, that block out the view of things.
Get rid of the floaters:)

Look twice , has some merit. Has to be pretty big floater to block out a truck !!!

Yes, but there are a lot more things that affect our vision, like size/threat/distance perception etc heaps more....

Lately I have forgotten how many times I have been following or watching some one corner. They have already made up their mind to go around the looking is only superficial they were going round no matter what."it's their right, I am more important, I'm a good driver... Etc

Its why I added more lights to make me look visible to those around, the fact that I can't ride in a straight line/weave all over the place helps to :laugh:

Basically boils down to the old adage 'look out for yourself' - the hi vis jacket will alert the better drivers. not the others and definetly won't protect you in an incident

[neels]

another culprit is the wide A pillars in most modern cars,I try to keep all stickers etc well out of the way on the right hand side.only the wof stays there,i get rid of service stickers etc to the middle.The comnbination of a pillar and mirror can really block the view in some situations
This is a valid point, I've driven rentals of the currently fashionable design, and the visibility in some of them is awful. Add to that the aforementioned disrupted sense of where the danger is coming from and it's easy to see how it happens.

[rocketman1]

Yes, but there are a lot more things that affect our vision, like size/threat/distance perception etc heaps more....

Lately I have forgotten how many times I have been following or watching some one corner. They have already made up their mind to go around the looking is only superficial they were going round no matter what."it's their right, I am more important, I'm a good driver... Etc

Its why I added more lights to make me look visible to those around, the fact that I can't ride in a straight line/weave all over the place helps to :laugh:

Basically boils down to the old adage 'look out for yourself' - the hi vis jacket will alert the better drivers not not the others and diffidently won't protect you in an incident

Yeah my new car and it big rear vision mirrors, i figured it completely blocks out about 30meters of road when looking left, especially if the road falls away a bit, it is worse. I almost collected a biker at this particular intersection about 2 years ago, felt real bad. Now I always stop and look twice or more each way.

[eldog]

Yeah my new car and it big rear vision mirrors, i figured it completely blocks out about 30meters of road when looking left, especially if the road falls away a bit, it is worse. I almost collected a biker at this particular intersection about 2 years ago, felt real bad. Now I always stop and look twice or more each way.

The old A pillar can block the view of vehicles coming toward you from the side, esp from left.
newer cars seem to have bigger A and B pillars. I look twice to try and avoid this problem, saved me a few times.

[Metastable]

There was an article posted here a while back that shed some great insight. It was written by an RAF pilot..... Not necessarily related to tourists, but one can see how this would develop.

Essentially, when you have a look, your brain grabs some information and fills in the rest of the bits.
- The faster you look (glance), the more your brain misses. (saccadic masking i.e. saccadic blindness)
- The less you expect to see something (like a vehicle coming down a road that is usually empty), the more likely you are going to miss it.
- Motion camouflage. If the background is not changing in relation to the forward movement, it is harder to detect the moving object.

Simply put, a tourist new to the area, trying to figure things out in a new vehicle, like initiating the turn signal, but instead putting on the windshield wipers... trying to THINK ABOUT what lane to turn into (so they don't go the wrong way down the street).... glancing trying to find a street name...... and the above points are more likely to occur. Sadly.

Taking your time to look, and do a double look is your best chance at making sure you don't miss something.

[chasio]

... the hi vis jacket will alert the better drivers not not the others and diffidently won't protect you in an incident

That makes me wonder what sort of diffidence it would exhibit. Perhaps it might say something like, "I must offer my humble apologies to you for having allowed that Kenworth to smash you to smithereens due to the flimsy nature of my constitution. I blame myself, of course, but being as ineffectual as I am in the role of armour, I'm afraid it was the best I could do at the time."

Bloody auto-correct, eh!

:)

[eldog]

That makes me wonder what sort of diffidence it would exhibit. Perhaps it might say something like, "I must offer my humble apologies to you for having allowed that Kenworth to smash you to smithereens due to the flimsy nature of my constitution. I blame myself, of course, but being as ineffectual as I am in the role of armour, I'm afraid it was the best I could do at the time."

Bloody auto-correct, eh!

:)

Too right auto correct.... I had to edit it so that even I could understand it:brick:

must get me some of that HiVis armour you speak off

[merv]

I think it occurs for a very simple reason for those from left hand drive countries.

They are used to doing right turns without having to give way to oncoming traffic at all, just like we do ducking around a left hand turn now that that stupid rule from 1977 was sent back where it belonged.

So it is nothing complicated like having to look in mirrors or anything.

The solution can only come from being totally vigilant like MD said and by sitting on the 'wrong' side of the car always trying to use that as a reference that everything has to be treated inside-out. I have driven often in left hand drive countries and so far so good, but I do keep thinking it would be worse on a motorcycle not having that inside-out reference like you do sitting on the other side of the car.