Could 2 smokes make a comeback?

[5150]

Could we possibly see 2 stroke motorcycles make a comeback? Would love to see the 500cc Moto GP era back :) That would sort out the men from the boys.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/79517529/Denver-Lawson-the-Kiwi-who-is-cleaning-up-the-two-stroke

[jellywrestler]

Could we possibly see 2 stroke motorcycles make a comeback? Would love to see the 500cc Moto GP era back :) That would sort out the men from the boys.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/79517529/Denver-Lawson-the-Kiwi-who-is-cleaning-up-the-two-stroke

won't be any different, electronics ride the bikes these days.

[Cosmik de Bris]

Could we possibly see 2 stroke motorcycles make a comeback? Would love to see the 500cc Moto GP era back :) That would sort out the men from the boys.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/79517529/Denver-Lawson-the-Kiwi-who-is-cleaning-up-the-two-stroke

Yes, riding with two fingers on the clutch.

[Laava]

Yes, riding with two fingers on the clutch.

Who you jiving with that, Cosmik de Bris?

[bbnet]

2 strokes might dominate all motorsports in the near future thanks to new paradigm shift in their design as shown by the Ryger kart engine: 125cc 70hp@18,000rpm, overrev to 30,000rpm, & no more excessive emissions than those heavy engines with two extra strokes

http://www.vroomkart.it/sites/vroomkart.com/files/www.vroomkart.it/Motore%20Ryger-1.jpg

[Metastable]

I'd say there has been a small comeback..... A LOT of the bikes I see on the trails are 2-strokes. Also SUTER and others have recently made 500cc 2-strokes for the track.... well Ronax also makes it for the street, if your jurisdiction allows them.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ronax-500-launch/
http://i0.wp.com/www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Ronax-500-launch-15.jpg

The Suter is dead sexy... billed as track only.
http://www.sportrider.com/suter-racing-releases-mmx500-two-stroke-gp-track-bike
http://www.sportrider.com/sites/sportrider.com/files/images/2015/09/suter-racing-to-build-mmx500-two-stroke-teaser.jpg

There is just a certain coolness about not having the engine getting in the way of the engine... 2-strokes just feel so alive.

[5150]

I'd say there has been a small comeback..... A LOT of the bikes I see on the trails are 2-strokes. Also SUTER and others have recently made 500cc 2-strokes for the track.... well Ronax also makes it for the street, if your jurisdiction allows them.


The Suter is dead sexy... billed as track only.

There is just a certain coolness about not having the engine getting in the way of the engine... 2-strokes just feel so alive.

These are just examples of private factories building small volume of 2 stroke bikes / engines. What I was referring to was the big 3 (Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda) as well as the Italians putting out 2 stroke road and off road bikes where there is again a racing formula for them. Like what it use to be before the 4 stroke MotoGP bikes came in? If the main reason for dumping these were the emissions, then if the factories could produce a clean 2 stroke formula that is possibly cleaner then 4 stroke, would the governing bodies allowed them to race again?

Or am I just day dreaming here?

[Scubbo]

gonna be hard to boom when everyone seems to be trying to make transport electric :P

would love to see a modern DFI 2-stroke motorbike though, might finally get light adventure bike

[Metastable]

They just have to market them as a Hybrid....... have a small electrical motor in there and it would be hailed as revolutionary.... regardless of the actual environmental impact. :D

[rastuscat]

I'd almost buy one just for the amusement factor.

But that's why I buy any bike.

[neels]

If someone can convince the accountants that there is a market, maybe.

Sadly I fear the days of the designers and engineers convincing large companies to produce something for sale just because it's cool are long gone, and it all comes down to dollars, unless as above some tenuous link to environmental superiority can be claimed in which case they'll be in boots and all.

[5150]

If someone can convince the accountants that there is a market, maybe.

Sadly I fear the days of the designers and engineers convincing large companies to produce something for sale just because it's cool are long gone, and it all comes down to dollars, unless as above some tenuous link to environmental superiority can be claimed in which case they'll be in boots and all.

Except that today's MotoGP bikes have nothing in common with what we can buy at our local bike shops. That's what the WSBK formula is for. Those bikes are lot more closely related to our street bikes. I don't think MotoGP was ever developed as a platform to launch new bike models. Allot of the technology filters through to our road bikes, but in general these are one off bikes that showcase factory development and talent. I would love to see the 2 strokes make a comeback as a clean formula in MotoGP. But as someone has mentioned before it would be too restricted by modern riding aids to make any resemblance to the old 500cc 2 stroke formula. Back then it was win it or bin it, and riders had to develop a level of respect to the violent nature of those beasts. I think also that is why sadly we will not see the likes of Schwantz's, Doohan's, Gardner's, Rayney's and Lawson's. Rossifumi is the last of the great bunch even though he came in at the end of that era. Todays riders although talented have got it a lot easier then the OG's. The rider aid electronics pretty much do everything for them. I mean, most crashes these days are front end loss of tire. Back in those days most were highsides. Just shows the level of respect the old bikes required.

Still chuckle at Schwantz's comment when asked about his secret of very late braking that made him so famous. " I wait till I see god, then I brake" Classic...... :niceone:

[Metastable]

IMO - I think MotoGP should be a ride what you bring kinda series with only 2 rules. 1 = Spec Tires, 2 = Spec and very low tech ECU.

It is easy to make power - 2 strokes, turbos, superchargers, more cc..... etc... it's hard to control power without electronics.

The problem is that the manufacturers do not want this..... so it will likely never happen.

[ellipsis]

...they will never be back while there is such a shortage of the green stuff that they overlay with the grey stuff to make the red shit that they need for the really A1, Powerbands, the smokers need, to really get their rocks off...eh?...

[Laava]

Bring back J.A.W

[F5 Dave]

And defiantly don't do that. He was an Aussie cocksucker.

But they never wen away. Been out on my dirt bike today. Nothing like a 2 stroke coming on pipe exiting a corner Wheeling and sliding the rear at the same time making that beautiful noise and producing more torque than a poxy 4 stroke.

[jamathi]

2 strokes might dominate all motorsports in the near future thanks to new paradigm shift in their design as shown by the Ryger kart engine: 125cc 70hp@18,000rpm, overrev to 30,000rpm, & no more excessive emissions than those heavy engines with two extra strokes

http://www.vroomkart.it/sites/vroomkart.com/files/www.vroomkart.it/Motore%20Ryger-1.jpg

Ryger finally bought a dyno a couple of weeks ago.
Where those supposed 70HP came from? They were just calculated.....
The new dyno seems to be a real bad one.
As it shows far less HP than expected.........
New explanations will follow: have patience! as always!
The 50cc version seems to give 14HP I heard.
The world record attempt will have to be postponed a little.....

[husaberg]

Ryger finally bought a dyno a couple of weeks ago.
Where those supposed 70HP came from? They were just calculated.....
The new dyno seems to be a real bad one.
As it shows far less HP than expected.........
New explanations will follow: have patience! as always!
The 50cc version seems to give 14HP I heard.
The world record attempt will have to be postponed a little.....

The problem with calculators is if you add bullshit numbers in you will always end up with bullshit results.

[old slider]

Ryger finally bought a dyno a couple of weeks ago.
Where those supposed 70HP came from? They were just calculated.....
The new dyno seems to be a real bad one.
As it shows far less HP than expected.........
New explanations will follow: have patience! as always!
The 50cc version seems to give 14HP I heard.
The world record attempt will have to be postponed a little.....

Yes they are making huge inroads on the 2 stroke engine,

Just looking at the new Evinrude G2 150-300hp engines I know its a boat motor but!!!

The E-TEC G2 delivers up to 30% more torque and burns up to 15% less fuel than competitive outboards. Delivering best-in-class torque, best-in-class fuel efficiency and the lowest total emissions.

The E-TEC G2 engines are cleaner than competitive four-strokes.
100% Global Compliant, so no matter where in the world your
boating takes you, the Evinrude E-TEC G2 is welcome.

[Reckless]

Yes they are making huge inroads on the 2 stroke engine,

Just looking at the new Evinrude G2 150-300hp engines I know its a boat motor but!!!

The E-TEC G2 delivers up to 30% more torque and burns up to 15% less fuel than competitive outboards. Delivering best-in-class torque, best-in-class fuel efficiency and the lowest total emissions.

The E-TEC G2 engines are cleaner than competitive four-strokes.
100% Global Compliant, so no matter where in the world your
boating takes you, the Evinrude E-TEC G2 is welcome.

I think the issue with bikes (especially dirt bike 2 smokers) is weight and generating enough power/pressure to run the injectors etc with direct injection?
They dont have that issue with boats extra few Kg no issue, on a dirt bike big Issue.
The other manufacturers might not. But pretty sure KTM would do it if they could, they still have a 2 stroke heart.
The rest just wanted to go four stroke because everyone in the food chain from manufacturer to Mechanics make a shit load more money out of four stroke sales, parts and engine/valve reconditioning.
This pollution thing is a crock of shit! You could start all the 2smokers in the world up and make fuck all difference to the pollution, its about money.

[Voltaire]

And defiantly don't do that. He was an Aussie cocksucker.

But they never wen away. Been out on my dirt bike today. Nothing like a 2 stroke coming on pipe exiting a corner Wheeling and sliding the rear at the same time making that beautiful noise and producing more torque than a poxy 4 stroke.

I totally know what you mean, dropping the Vespa PX 200 into 3rd going up Parnell Rise...:niceone:

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVB4ToaxL-c
Mike Hailwoods pants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vu3NisyDFQ

[old slider]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVB4ToaxL-c
Mike Hailwoods pants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vu3NisyDFQ


Awesome clips, brings back some memories, was a flag marshal at the Wanganui meeting, I remember Don Cosford working his RRRrss off with running that.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLUex1BssgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZJVGlp0Clo
Looks like a MB honda a few minutes in.

[old slider]

Something special about those sounds, always remember as a young fella chucking castor oil into my 2 smokes for the smell affect.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0D_Wi-m8_8
According to what i have read a lot of the problems with these were down to leaking crankcase castings as wel;l as a poor fuel map.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK7GUJht8AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deHajkza9zU
89 Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan, Spencer. Sarron, Chilli, Magee, Mamola, Gardner must have been injured?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnLKRGpctzA

[F5 Dave]

That's an mbx50. Some of those sound pretty dreadful. Especially the scrooters. But the old race bikes sound great.

[husaberg]

That's an mbx50. Some of those sound pretty dreadful. Especially the scrooters. But the old race bikes sound great.

1.33 MBX wheels but it sure looked like a MB5 frame.
I never watched it all.
One of the first ones looked like it had a 4t MGP look a like scilencer on it.:facepalm:

[george formby]

If only the development of this tech had continued..... Ah, dreams. Honda EXP-2 (http://www.honda-museum.com/honda-exp-2/)

[husaberg]

If only the development of this tech had continued..... Ah, dreams. Honda EXP-2 (http://www.honda-museum.com/honda-exp-2/)

It did it resulted in the production CRM250.
Link to folow.
329172329173

[george formby]

I have a CRM 250, not the active radical, though. Still plenty of CRM AR's on the road up over. The weight made me laugh, 155kg dry. The CRM's are about 140kg.. You can bend them but they don't break.

I can remember being quite excited about the AR technology, the plug was pulled pretty quickly, sadly. No pun intended.

[husaberg]

I have a CRM 250, not the active radical, though. Still plenty of CRM AR's on the road up over. The weight made me laugh, 155kg dry. The CRM's are about 140kg.. You can bend them but they don't break.

I can remember being quite excited about the AR technology, the plug was pulled pretty quickly, sadly. No pun intended.

Ages ago i found a full test in CW on the EXP2 including a test ride and a Qand A session with the tech team
It by all accounds was as easy to ride and produced the same power as a 4t650 more importantly used no more fuel and was prefectly carburated.
The designer said it worked just as well with a carb on it but was harder to intially tune.
its not this one.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/160972-2-strokes-in-MotoGP?p=1130614507#post1130614507

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HXqZh5oTK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-hyzvEQJqk

[george formby]

Interesting reading husaberg, cheers. I now know why my DT 230 is unhappy on neutral or partial throttle and drinks like a fish. It has WR200 jetting and wide open power valve.

Mind you, it goes like a cut cat when you twist the grip. I can live with it.:woohoo:

[Scubbo]

KTM fuel injecting their enduros 2018 --- http://www.dirtrider.com/ktm-announces-groundbreaking-two-stroke-fuel-injection-enduro-motorcycles

[Dave-]

I heard a rumor through the grape vine from a guy who knew a guy that all the manufacturers had DI 2T engines developed and ready to go, they're just waiting for the EURO requirements to become strict enough to make DI 2T manufacturing cost effective.

Grain of salt though people, likely bullshit.

[george formby]

I heard a rumor through the grape vine from a guy who knew a guy that all the manufacturers had DI 2T engines developed and ready to go, they're just waiting for the EURO requirements to become strict enough to make DI 2T manufacturing cost effective.

Grain of salt though people, likely bullshit.

I would not be surprised if 2t engines are back on the drawing board since the diesel emissions debacle.

As you say, though. My thinking may be clouded by wishes.

[Cosmik de Bris]

KTM are bringing out a 250 and 300 enduro with TPI injection, off road only.

[pritch]

Haven't read the whole thread but Honda, who were enthusiastic about the demise of two strokes, applied mid 2015 for patents covering TPI two-stroke engines.
http://newatlas.com/honda-two-stroke-with-fuel-injection-patent-filing/38529/

If the KTMs sell like hot cakes anything is possible

[husaberg]

1980 YZR500

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhkZetCyaNs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVROhRLrQ3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKNxsns3JoA