Traffic-light weight switches? [Archive]

mysoxrstinky

9th May 2016, 21:06

Hello all,

Just moved to the big smoke and I am really struggling with traffic lights. I ride a 225 cc and I myself only weigh 70 kgs so I am very rarely able to trigger the sensor that switches the traffic lights! I have tried jumping up and down, stopping more abruptly hoping the extra force will be detected, I have even parked my bike, walked over to the pedestrian crossing button and triggered the lights that way.

To make matters worse, some thoughtful cages stop their vehicles way behind me to give me extra space. I am thankful for that but it means that neither of us is triggering the lights and we are both caught up in this horrible situation. The other day I tried to indicate to a woman that she should scoot closer to me but instead she pulled up beside me, putting herself halfway outside of our land and inhibiting traffic! It was dangerous and frstrating and she still didn't trigger the light!

How do I fix this!? Should I just by a hunk of lead to strap to my bike? How do I indicate to other drivers where they need to stop? UGGGHHH

Cheers in advance

Edit: Thanks everyone. Lots of really good info. I have learned that lights aren't triggered by weight but instead triggered by an induction loop in the concrete. This work by detecting metal. Many people have had success in triggering these by just putting the kickstand down in the middle off the rectangle cut into the ground you can see. You can also try tipping your bike closer to the ground directly above this rectangle.
One user gave this very good link to show how this works and give you an idea of other possible fixes.
http://www.marshproducts.com/pdf/Inductive%20Loop%20Write%20up.pdf

Thanks everyone!

Laava

9th May 2016, 21:12

If you look carefully you can usually see there is a double rectangle shape in the form of cut lines around about where you stop. This is the induction loop and it is detecting a large chunk of metal, not triggered by vehicle weight. If you stop and put your sidestand down, then lean it directly on part of the loop line, that should do the trick.

skippa1

9th May 2016, 21:13

bogan

9th May 2016, 21:14

Hello there,

Traffic lights are just one of the many shitterisms of a big smoke; others include too many traffic, and hipsters.

Unfortunatly, it is common to have issues on abike with them. They are no tweight based, but inductance, which measures the metal content of a vehicle. Cars having wide flat surface closest to the ground are easily noticed. Often you can pick the square outline denoting the coil of wire used to measure this inductance; try to get your bike right over one side of this. Magnets advertised to trip these are just snake oil, if you want to put something on your bike, a bit of metal under the engine is about your only option.

fxxk

9th May 2016, 21:41

Personally i just ride further up in the but that's for push bikes so that cars behind me park over the sensor. Otherwise fuck pedestrians, park right up on their crossing 😏😏

pritch

9th May 2016, 21:48

I sometimes had trouble on the moped but don't recall it happening on the bike. These days I just get pissed off waiting at a red light when there's nothing in sight but that happens in the car too, it's just a result of whatever the local Council does instead of planning. .

mada

10th May 2016, 00:16

Turn bike off. Push bike along pedestrian crossing to side with green light. Start bike, wave to cagers behind you - ride away.

iYRe

10th May 2016, 14:50

nzspokes

10th May 2016, 19:19

Read somewhere a magnet under the bike works. Could be BS.

rastuscat

10th May 2016, 19:22

Ride a Harley.

Swoop

10th May 2016, 19:42

Ride a Harley.

Do all of the badges worn on the leather vest, trigger the sensor?
Or has it got to do with the arseless trousers causing cars to crash, add to the metal content of the asphalt?

Moi

10th May 2016, 19:46

Do all of the badges worn on the leather vest, trigger the sensor?
Or has it got to do with the arseless trousers causing cars to crash, add to the metal content of the asphalt?

All of the above...

nzspokes

10th May 2016, 20:14

Do all of the badges worn on the leather vest, trigger the sensor?
Or has it got to do with the arseless trousers causing cars to crash, add to the metal content of the asphalt?

Nah man its the puddle of warm oil under them that does it.

Cloggy

10th May 2016, 20:54

Having owned a Scorpio and having lived in Wellington, I know what you mean.
One particular night while out getting a tag in the Welly Tag-o-rama game I had to stop at the lights coming out of Gibbons Street in Upper Hutt where it meets River Road heading South.
Red light so I stop. After 10 or 15 seconds a cop car stops behind me at the lights. Waiting, waiting, lights don't change. Maybe a minute passes and the lights are still red, absolutely no traffic coming down River Road as this is in the small hours of the night.
Next thing the cop behind me puts his flashing lights on, sneaks past me through the red light onto River Road, turns flashing lights off and proceeds down River Road as if nothing happened.
WTF!? Good enough for him, good enough for me, so I followed him through the red light.

But, yes, side stand down sometimes works.

Scubbo

10th May 2016, 21:32

local

10th May 2016, 22:36

bogan

10th May 2016, 22:39

mate if you have an old dead PC hard-drive pull it apart and take the 2 strong rare earth magnets out of it / stick to bottom of frame of bike, no need to glue etc, they are strong as feck don't get your fingers inbetween 2 of them -- should do the trick and cost you nothing...

Not how inductance works (see superposition), but I guess it might catch a few bolts that would otherwise fall off :whistle:

Have you got something that will turn the lights green as I approach them?

Marker with green paint balls?

TheDemonLord

11th May 2016, 00:08

a strict diet of lots of Pies and no exercise will sort this issue in no time.

I never have a problem with lights on the 'bus.

Jeff Sichoe

11th May 2016, 09:42

Just wait for a gap and gun it

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Daffyd

11th May 2016, 14:54

The use of the sidestand will only be effective if the sidestand is steel. Aluminium is not an 'inductible' metal. I suggest fixing a steel plate on the foot of the stand, or a larger one under the bike. Bear in mind most of a modern bike is aluminium and there might not be enough steel on it to trigger the switch.

Scubbo

11th May 2016, 15:03

Not how inductance works (see superposition), but I guess it might catch a few bolts that would otherwise fall off :whistle:

Marker with green paint balls?

"My understanding is that there's a loop of wire embedded in the pavement that produces a magnetic field around it when a electric current (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D56GV9E) passes through it. When a large piece of magnetic material such as iron in a car's engine block (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=automotive&keywords=engine%2Bblock&linkCode=ur2) or frame parks overhead, the magnetic field is distorted and the traffic lightcircuit is tripped. "

so a magnet won't change that induced field at all?....

Metastable

11th May 2016, 15:51

They are supposed to trigger if even a bicycle stops on them (most do). If you find some that dont work, report them to the council and they come and re-calibrate them. They seem to be relatively quick at doing it... I've reported several now.

(at least in auckland anyway)

That's how it works on this part of the world too. Stop right over the cut in the pavement. Even a bicycle can trigger it if the sensitivity is correct. If not working, report it.

rocketman1

11th May 2016, 20:37

Turn bike off. Push bike along pedestrian crossing to side with green light. Start bike, wave to cagers behind you - ride away.

You have to be kidding me , what twat would do that.
Just ride through the red light when all is clear, its not the bikes fault, its the bloody stupid sensors.

caseye

11th May 2016, 21:35

You have to be kidding me , what twat would do that.
Just ride through the red light when all is clear, its not the bikes fault, its the bloody stupid sensors.

Ohhh, look out cass bitch did that and got a ticket, long time ago though, just goes to show hasn't learn't, don't do dumb shit in front of the law!
It is a dumb law and like all dumb laws it SHOULD be ignored.

bogan

11th May 2016, 22:46

"My understanding is that there's a loop of wire embedded in the pavement that produces a magnetic field around it when a electric current (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D56GV9E) passes through it. When a large piece of magnetic material such as iron in a car's engine block (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=automotive&keywords=engine%2Bblock&linkCode=ur2) or frame parks overhead, the magnetic field is distorted and the traffic lightcircuit is tripped. "

so a magnet won't change that induced field at all?....

It's an inductor, and it's the change in inductance that is measured. It will create a magnetic feild during this measuring, but it follows the law of superposition, the fields simply overlap, inductance is not changed by a fixed magnetic feild. Even changing feilds technically don't change the inductance, however they can induce currents within it to give false signals.

Dave-

12th May 2016, 11:10

This is quite good:

http://www.marshproducts.com/pdf/Inductive%20Loop%20Write%20up.pdf

No scary maths or names you've forgotten from highschool.

Ocean1

12th May 2016, 13:48

This is quite good:

http://www.marshproducts.com/pdf/Inductive%20Loop%20Write%20up.pdf

No scary maths or names you've forgotten from highschool.

It is a good reference. I see someone's already mentioned about calling the council, they're usually pretty good at sorting them out, but you do have to call them.

In the meantime I can report that if you lay the bike on it's side over the middle of the loop it usually does the trick. Dirt bikes suffer because of their ground clearance, and that's how I used to fix the problem.

Probably not the very best trick if you have a Goldwing, but it's not likely to be a problem with a Goldwing.

mada

12th May 2016, 21:06

You have to be kidding me , what twat would do that.
Just ride through the red light when all is clear, its not the bikes fault, its the bloody stupid sensors.

Council are putting red light cameras all over the place here so go for it if you got a large wallet. With our traffic, road works, and in some areas traffic lights every 200m I'd rather save 10mins by a lil push every now and then

Jin

13th May 2016, 05:58

Ohhh, look out cass bitch did that and got a ticket, long time ago though, just goes to show hasn't learn't, don't do dumb shit in front of the law!
It is a dumb law and like all dumb laws it SHOULD be ignored.
Stopping at red lights is a dumb law?

jonnyk5614

13th May 2016, 10:02

I wear steel toe cap workbooks and never have a problem activating the sensor.

In trainers though, I just have to chuck the side stand down sometimes.

To be honest though, there are hardly any red light cameras about - I might have been known to treat red lights as a give way after 11pm ;)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Metastable

13th May 2016, 13:20

About steel toes - I have heard about a case where the shoe/boot bent on an off and the steel toes chopped off some toes. Not telling people not to wear them.... it is highly unlikely, but just something to think about.

eldog

13th May 2016, 17:18

PrincessBandit

16th May 2016, 06:55

I'm with others who (a) ride right up to the pedestrian crossing in the hopes that a car will pull up behind me and (b) after waiting through at least one full traffic light cycle have a good look around and if no other traffic I just go.

Maybe it's living in Sth Auck but I don't like the feeling of vulnerability sitting like Nigel Nofriends at a set of lights, especially at night :baby:

rastuscat

16th May 2016, 07:33

Call 03 941 8509

Thats CTOC, the Christchurch Transport Operations Centre

They sort the traffic lights.

Wellington also has a TOC, as does Auckland.

ExpertoCrede

16th May 2016, 16:03

Many bikes have aluminium wheel rims and as has already been suggested aluminium is not a conductive metal. The metal side stand down generally works.
Don't forget to be in neutral.... 😉

Dave-

16th May 2016, 20:18

Many bikes have aluminium wheel rims and as has already been suggested aluminium is not a conductive metal. The metal side stand down generally works.
Don't forget to be in neutral.... ��

Even if rims are steel the insulation of the tyres would prevent conductivity.

What, are you people talking about conducting?

Aluminium is definitely a conductor.

pritch

16th May 2016, 22:38

mate if you have an old dead PC hard-drive pull it apart and take the 2 strong rare earth magnets out of it / stick to bottom of frame of bike, no need to glue etc, they are strong as feck don't get your fingers inbetween 2 of them -- should do the trick and cost you nothing...

Even better stick them on the oil filter if it's low enough, or the drain plug. Kill two birds etc.

Berries

16th May 2016, 23:49

The solution would be a painted circle at the intersection with a metal plate sensor in the middle for bikes to stop inside. This will not happen due to the revenue they can get from motorcyclists who give up waiting maybe.
They do it for cyclists at a lot of intersections. Just look for the small diamonds marked on top of the loops.

There are a couple of intersections in town where I can no longer be bothered waiting 45 seconds when there is no traffic coming. If the signals were so smart they would throw a short green phase in but that is beyond the systems used here. So at a couple of places I might wait a bit and then proceed but the first thing I am going to check for is Police cars. I would rather not get caught than try to to explain my way out of committing a quite obvious offence.

Big Dog

17th May 2016, 01:21

So if I had known about them years ago would they have got me off the ticket I got if I was able to prove to them the lights at the interesction I was ticketed at did not trigger for bikes? The ticket I got was failing to comply with the signal as opposed to failing to stop.
Even if this could be done it would require having to take a half day off work to go and see them plus they would have to road cone the intersection while you did a demonstration with your bike. The solution would be
a painted circle at the intersection with a metal plate sensor in the middle for bikes to stop inside. This will not happen due to the revenue they can get from motorcyclists who give up waiting maybe.
OR the complaints from riders about the reduced friction coefficient of a steel surface in the rain would put the kibosh on your plan as riders came off with a lost front and slid into the cross traffic.

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

Bass

17th May 2016, 06:12

My post was to point out to the other poster that the rubber in tires acts as an insulater between the rim and the road. Maybe the other poster was meaning that the sensors are actually magnetic and if thats the case alloy rims or side stands will not "conduct" to use their lingo.

As has been stated MANY times in this thread, they are inductive sensors, not magnetic but along vaguely similar lines. Conductivity has nothing at all to do with their operation.
They will detect any metal, but some better than others. Also the angle of the metal with respect to their field matters.
Iron and steel are most easily detected and so extending the side stand MAY improve a bike's "detectability" as it makes the object appear larger to the field

Bass

17th May 2016, 11:03

It seems to me a sensor technology imrovement is required if all bikes are going to be able trigger lights like cars. Putting your stand down in "hope" just sounds nonsense to me.

It is, but as has been stated many times in this thread, if you find a problem, contact the controlling authority as they can and do adjust the sensor sensitivity

Dave-

17th May 2016, 12:31

That is fine in theory but not logistically possible for the reasons I pointed out in a previous post as it would require you going in and they would have to road cone the intersection while they calibrated
the sensor for your bike and for all you know this setting may not suit other bikes as has been pointed out by other posters if they have a lot of alloy and not steel in them. If controlling authorities are aware that the sensors
are not perfect for the detection of motorbikes you should be able to get any failing to comply with a signal ticket waivered where no cars are present at an intersection to trigger the signals.

It's more likely that a technician will look at the data recording for the traffic light induction system and lower the trigger threshold.

No cones, no motorbikes, no going in, no calibration, no worrying about other bikes.

Dave-

17th May 2016, 15:19

The problem with your theory is that if a motorbike does not trigger the sensor it will not show up in the data anyway unless you mean that they can look at the photo of your bike waiting from a red light camera if you give them your reg number. Not all lights would have cameras either.

No, but the technician will know by experience that the magnitude of a motorcycle is typically some proportion of a car (lets say 1/3rd) the magnitude of a car, he can thus set the trigger somewhere below 1/3 to know he will probably fix the issue.

If you call again he will just lower it a little further.

Actually yeah, you're right, you definitely need to take time off work and they definitely need to get out a cone and block off the lane while the technician calibrates the magnitron to your specific motorcycle. But you will need to hold your engine on exactly 4321rpm to generate enough electromagnetic torque to get a good reading. What a pain eh? You're totally right about the government gathering revenue off impatient motorcyclists running red lights too, that's got to be one of their highest earners right? Probably paid for the flag referendum. Aye?

Psst guys, what I wrote above is all bullshit, if you have trouble with lights call your city council

Swoop

17th May 2016, 15:21

Even if rims are steel the insulation of the tyres would prevent conductivity.

My post was to point out to the other poster that the rubber in tires acts as an insulater between the rim and the road.

Fuck sakes.

It is an INDUCTANCE loop! NOT a fucking direct cunting contact!
You fucking twat!

As a demonstration.
Please go and stand next to an electrical outlet. Guess what, nothing happens.
Now, go and hold a pair of scissors, then insert it into the holes in the socket.
Please ensure the switch is on.

See the difference?

Now, hold some rubber around the scissors and re-insert into the socket.
See the difference?

Tazz

17th May 2016, 16:23

mate if you have an old dead PC hard-drive pull it apart and take the 2 strong rare earth magnets out of it / stick to bottom of frame of bike, no need to glue etc, they are strong as feck don't get your fingers inbetween 2 of them -- should do the trick and cost you nothing...

Or get a bunch of them and stick them directly to all the plates on your route to/from work? :laugh:

Berries

17th May 2016, 17:12

That is fine in theory but not logistically possible for the reasons I pointed out in a previous post as it would require you going in and they would have to road cone the intersection while they calibrated
the sensor for your bike and for all you know this setting may not suit other bikes as has been pointed out by other posters if they have a lot of alloy and not steel in them. If controlling authorities are aware that the sensors
are not perfect for the detection of motorbikes you should be able to get any failing to comply with a signal ticket waivered where no cars are present at an intersection to trigger the signals.
A normal loop can be tuned so that it is sensitive enough to pick up a motorbike easily and they should all be like that. The tuning does go out over time though. You just need to pick up the phone and tell them if it doesn't work then they can twiddle the knobs for you.

ExpertoCrede

17th May 2016, 18:02

Iron and steel are most easily detected and so extending the side stand MAY improve a bike's "detectability" as it makes the object appear larger to the field

This seems to be it. Regardless of the science behind it, putting your stand down, albeit it a nonsense solution, seems to work. Patiently Waiting at lights for 3 cycles with no green when there normally is one - then putting the stand down and voilà green on the next cycle.

Yes I could certainly phone the council and have done so, but in the meantime if a momentary stand down 'does the trick' then so be it.

Big Dog

17th May 2016, 18:45

A normal loop can be tuned so that it is sensitive enough to pick up a motorbike easily and they should all be like that. The tuning does go out over time though. You just need to pick up the phone and tell them if it doesn't work then they can twiddle the knobs for you.
Is it a man or a woman that would come and twiddle my knob?
Answer to this question may affect my willingness to call.

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

Dave-

17th May 2016, 18:59

This seems to be it. Regardless of the science behind it, putting your stand down, albeit it a nonsense solution, seems to work. Patiently Waiting at lights for 3 cycles with no green when there normally is one - then putting the stand down and voilà green on the next cycle.

I doubt this is the case, I call it the elevator door theory.

Does pressing the close button when you step into an elevator actually close the doors faster? or does the act of pressing the button simply fill the gap you'd usually spend standing there wondering how much longer you'll have to wait for the doors to close.

Putting your side stand down probably fills the gap you'd spend waiting for the light to change.

ExpertoCrede

17th May 2016, 19:08

Does pressing the close button when you step into an elevator actually close the doors faster?

Pressing the open button keeps the doors open for longer.

Swoop

17th May 2016, 19:18

... I assumed ...

There's another problem then.

Dave-

17th May 2016, 19:20

Pressing the open button keeps the doors open for longer.

Yes, but that's functionally a different button.

Does pressing the button many times at the pedestrian crossing make it change faster?

Berries

17th May 2016, 19:29

Does pressing the button many times at the pedestrian crossing make it change faster?
Now those dickheads annoy me.

flashg

17th May 2016, 19:39

Back on track. I reckon these pads are just metal detectors, and any metal will activate them, if the sensitivity is set correctly.
Any metal set's off the ones in the airport (like my knee) no rusty old steel of any sort in there, just alloys.
I do hope in all sincerity that this help's those that are struggling to understand. There's no fucken way tyres will stop activation of these pads.
Any gold strapped under your bike or car and big brother will know, but you'll get green light's as a bonus

flashg

17th May 2016, 20:41

Thats the problem the motorcycle riding public are not in a position to tell if the sensitivity has been set correctly when they come up to the lights like they are able to notice if the lights themselves are out. Going back to the earlier posters stating that the more steel a bike has in it the better gives me the impression the correct sensitivity setting may not work for all bikes. Maybe Rastus who used to be a motorcycle cop could come back on and say whether or not he issued tickets to riders that were unable to trigger the sensors.

I must be a lucky one then. I've ridden all over Christchurch on my WR 450 at different times (it's all alloy)(never used the stand) and never had a problem with any lights. But if or when I do. I'll just kneel on the pad, that'll set it off hahaha

Moi

17th May 2016, 20:44

I must be a lucky one then. I've ridden all over Christchurch on my WR 450 at different times (it's all alloy)(never used the stand) and never had a problem with any lights. But if or when I do. I'll just kneel on the pad, that'll set it off hahaha

I trust you face the correct direction when you pray for the green to proceed...

flashg

17th May 2016, 20:56

I trust you face the correct direction when you pray for the green to proceed...

I haven't needed to yet, but if I do I'm not Muslim, so does that exclude me from facing Mecca while in this prayer mode ?

Moi

17th May 2016, 21:06

I haven't needed to yet, but if I do I'm not Muslim, so does that exclude me from facing Mecca while in this prayer mode ?

I would have thought that facing the CCC building might improve the chances of your prayers being answered... :scooter:

flashg

17th May 2016, 21:09

That blows the theory then of others who say its not as likely to work as well for an alloy bike. Another issue could be all traffic lights could have sensors of varying ages with some being more sensitive to motorbikes than others. I was ticketed in the1980's and chances are they were not sensitive to bikes at all back then. In the last year I have had to go through a few lights that did not change likely due to the sensor sensitivity being affected by land movement in all the earthquakes which are still happening by the way.

I know all about the earthquakes still happening by the way. I live here and have done so for over 20 years.
My understanding was at rush hour traffic lights are on a timer system. I'm sure I heard that somewhere, but can't prove it. It would make sense though.

Moi

17th May 2016, 21:13

If you think induction loops can be problematic, imagine the issues that road users used to have with the pressure pads that activated traffic lights...

WristTwister

17th May 2016, 21:45

This is high school physics boys. Let's say you take a coil of wire perhaps 5 feet in diameter, containing five or six loops of wire. You cut some grooves in a road and place the coil in the grooves. You attach an inductance meter to the coil and see what the inductance of the coil is. Now you park a car over the coil and check the inductance again. The inductance will be much larger because of the large steel object positioned in the loop's magnetic field. The car parked over the coil is acting like the core of the inductor, and its presence changes the inductance of the coil.

A traffic light sensor uses the loop in that same way. It constantly tests the inductance of the loop in the road, and when the inductance rises, it knows there is a car waiting!

NOW! What most of you all seem to have overlooked is the positioning of these coils at intersections and how they reduce the visibility of a bike (look at the road code advice on positioning for visibility at intersections). I hate the funking things, and they're installed all over the "Smart Motorway"... :niceone:

Berries

17th May 2016, 23:08

What most of you all seem to have overlooked is the positioning of these coils at intersections and how they reduce the visibility of a bike (look at the road code advice on positioning for visibility at intersections).
You've lost me. These loops are to detect vehicles approaching a set of traffic signals. What does visibility of a bike or positioning for visibility have to do with traffic signals?

Bass

18th May 2016, 06:08

Dont you mean that bikes are invisable to the inductive coil/sensor which is what this thread is about.? If these coils made bikes invisable there would be a lot of riders getting hit by other motorists due to the invisability field created by the coil?

At last I understand

You're Katman's evil apprentice, Supertroll, aren't you?

rambaldi

19th May 2016, 14:16

I doubt this is the case, I call it the elevator door theory.

Does pressing the close button when you step into an elevator actually close the doors faster? or does the act of pressing the button simply fill the gap you'd usually spend standing there wondering how much longer you'll have to wait for the doors to close.

Putting your side stand down probably fills the gap you'd spend waiting for the light to change.

The door close button does make a difference but maybe not on all lifts. At work in the back of house area we had some that due to kitchen staff trundling large trolleys and bins through was very slow to close the door. Pressing the button most definitely made a difference there.

Dave-

19th May 2016, 14:44

The door close button does make a difference but maybe not on all lifts. At work in the back of house area we had some that due to kitchen staff trundling large trolleys and bins through was very slow to close the door. Pressing the button most definitely made a difference there.

Clearly we need more investigation.

rambaldi

19th May 2016, 15:11

Clearly we need more investigation.

I think I will contribute by taking the rest of the day to ride all of the lifts around here and see what if any difference it makes.

Moi

19th May 2016, 16:19

Don't you mean that bikes are invisible to the inductive coil/sensor which is what this thread is about.? If these coils made bikes invisible there would be a lot of riders getting hit by other motorists due to the invisibility field created by the coil?

Do Jim Kirk, Spook, Scotty et al know this?

Swoop

19th May 2016, 22:18

A traffic light sensor uses the loop in that same way. It constantly tests the inductance of the loop in the road, and when the inductance rises, it knows there is a car waiting!

One small point that I have noticed in Auckland...
Asian drivers HATE stopping close to the white line. The sensors are there and they stop at least one car length back from the white line... meaning that they rarely trigger the sensor.

At least on the bike you can just ride around the Nissan Micra (mandatory vehicle type for them) and stop on top of the sensor lines.

(I had a Korean student some years ago, who swore that the lights were controlled by a human being with access to a surveillance camera)