Make yourself seen

[rastuscat]

It's been interesting to see the responses to all the various hi viz threads.

Basically I believe that if people see me, they are less likely to want to kill me. My ex wife being the exception, inversely.

Positioning for max visibility and conspicuity are my favourite solutions. Ride where you can be seen and where you have the best visibility.

Hi viz is a part of it too. As is lighting.

Ride naked, virtually EVERYONE will see you. Smirk.

Ride where you can be seen best.

Just my musings.

[Katman]

Open ones own eyes.

Just my musings.

[caseye]

They're both RIGHT, just that one of em's gone tropo!
Not sure which yet>????????????????

[Jin]

Cant look like rossi wearing hi viz so its a no go for me sorry

[Jonno.]

Open ones own eyes.

Just my musings.

How dare you. It's my God given right to wear bright colours in exchange for not paying attention to my surroundings.

[rastuscat]

Cant look like rossi wearing hi viz so its a no go for me sorry

He takes positioning to a new level. He tries to be in first position all the time.

[nzspokes]

He takes positioning to a new level. He tries to be in first position all the time.

Isn't that the whole point of riding?

[rastuscat]

Isn't that the whole point of riding?

Nah. Life ain't a race.

[rocketman1]

Personally after following some friends around the top part of the NI recently. I believe that the colour of the crash helmet is a big part of being seen. 3-4 bikes in front of me some up to 100-200m away most dressed in black, some with a bit of orange and yellow clothing etc, it was the silver and white crash helmets that I could see when the bike and rider disappered into the background. Those with dark and black helmets were very hard to see. The obsession with cool black helmets, is not probably good for being spotted by those drivers that only look once.

[Ocean1]

I believe that the colour of the crash helmet is a big part of being seen.

Aye, I've found that demonstrated repeatedly over the years. My normal riding gear is black / grey, but the last couple of road helmets have been white.

[Oakie]

Ride naked, virtually EVERYONE will see you. Smirk.



Been there, done that.

[nzspokes]

Been there, done that.

What has been seen cannot be unseen.....:shit:

[Oakie]

What has been seen cannot be unseen.....:shit: That was Rastus's whole point I guess.

[nzspokes]

That was Rastus's whole point I guess.

Fair call.

[Katman]

That was Rastus's whole point I guess.

Rastus's whole point is bullshit.

Things won't improve until we place more importance on opening our own fucking eyes than on what we're wearing.

Clothing Nazis can suck my dick.

[scumdog]

When I used to wear my skull mask I noticed people in cars noticed me pretty quickly, even from a distance.

So, if they saw me then why did they not spot me regardless of what I wore:wacko::weird:

Plurry people. (As Hori would say)

[eldog]

Its not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.

are we not trying to make it easier for other road users to see us Because they can't open their eyes/mind that that speck in the distance is worth looking at.

and yes we should look at what we are doing to help ourselves

[rastuscat]

Rastus's whole point is bullshit.

Things won't improve until we place more importance on opening our own fucking eyes than on what we're wearing.

Clothing Nazis can suck my dick.

You can wait until everyone opens their eyes. Good luck with that.

I'm owning the solution by making myself more obvious. And I'm not talking hi viz. Positioning and dynamic movement across sight lines. Putting myself in the position of those I want to see me.

Own the problem, and you own the solution.

[nzspokes]

Rastus's whole point is bullshit.

Things won't improve until we place more importance on opening our own fucking eyes than on what we're wearing.

Clothing Nazis can suck my dick.

Fully agree.

Did a hazard Identification exercise on one course that changed how I look at the road ahead.

[eldog]

When I used to wear my skull mask I noticed people in cars noticed me pretty quickly, even from a distance.

So, if they saw me then why did they not spot me regardless of what I wore:wacko::weird:

Plurry people. (As Hori would say)

Just your skull mask:bleh::eek:

[eldog]

Things won't improve until we place more importance on opening our own fucking eyes than on what we're wearing.

Why place more importance on it rather than what were wearing, why not place more importance on both than currently used.

no one is forcing you do anything apart from following the road code, wearing a helmet and having a current rego and WOF.

[Katman]

no on is forcing you do anything apart from following the road code, wearing a helmet and having a current rego and WOF.

Exactly, so the least we could do is open our fucking eyes.

[eldog]

Exactly, so the least we could do is open our fucking eyes.
And learn to identify hazards or potential problems without having to think about it.
and yeah alter our riding to minimise outcomes.

[caseye]

It IS and always has been basic shit, move across sight lines, wear something that can be seen, move when it's clear to do so, don't fuck about! Look after yourself and look at everyone else and you just might get there and back in one piece.
Same basic messages, just different ways of expressing and implementing, long as it works, what does it matter?
Good to see you haven't changed the delivery KM.

[Motu]

[QUOTE=rastuscat;1130970283Ride naked[/QUOTE]

Should be part of the riding test - ride across Auckland naked...with no lights. Once you've got that sorted, you'll know your place in the world, and being seen won't be part of your survival kit.

[eldog]

don't fuck about!

bugger:wacko::scratch:

[nzspokes]

Should be part of the riding test - ride across Auckland naked...with no lights.

But when they fail the test some twat will start a thread about it.

[RGVforme]

It IS and always has been basic shit, move across sight lines, wear something that can be seen, move when it's clear to do so, don't fuck about! Look after yourself and look at everyone else and you just might get there and back in one piece.
Same basic messages, just different ways of expressing and implementing, long as it works, what does it matter?
Good to see you haven't changed the delivery KM.

This X10.

Its a combo of things that all work together at the right time that saves your arse.....How many times that highVis good tyres or head check before a lane change has saved your life you will never know because its worked.

[Maha]

But when they fail the test some twat will start a thread about it.

It appears that your balls have shrunk since moving in with a failed lesbian.

[Madness]

It appears that your balls have shrunk since moving in with a failed lesbian.

. :corn:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hi viz is a part of it too. As is lighting.
.


Open ones own eyes.
.


Personally after following some friends around the top part of the NI recently. I believe that the colour of the crash helmet is a big part of being seen. 3-4 bikes in front of me some up to 100-200m away most dressed in black, some with a bit of orange and yellow clothing etc, it was the silver and white crash helmets that I could see when the bike and rider disappered into the background. Those with dark and black helmets were very hard to see. The obsession with cool black helmets, is not probably good for being spotted by those drivers that only look once.


Rastus's whole point is bullshit.

Things won't improve until we place more importance on opening our own fucking eyes than on what we're wearing.

Clothing Nazis can suck my dick.

Anyone wanking on about hi vis clothing or helmets is doing just that. We have total fucking morons driving in front of FUCKING LOCOMOTOVES!!!!!!!. They have a headlight that'd melt the berg that sunk the Titanic. They make the ground shake like a 3.5 quake, and a horn that makes you poo your pants. Yet lots of our licenced drivers, get smashed by them year after year. If the train had a high vis bib...do you half wits think it'd make an iota of difference? Of fucking course not. Get a fucking grip.

Until we make getting a licence too difficult for blind fuckwits...we'll keep getting cleaned up. Same goes for a motorcycle licence.

[Berries]

Talking of bullshit, can anyone explain what this latest bike ad means? It is one of a series in print and at the side of the road. One of them is clearly promoting hi-viz, one would appear to be promoting t-boning a car and this one I can't work out, other than saying don't ride a bike.

Virtual chocolate fish for something meaningful. (And before anyone starts, keeping up in group rides is a very long shot).

[nzspokes]

Talking of bullshit, can anyone explain what this latest bike ad means? It is one of a series in print and at the side of the road. One of them is clearly promoting hi-viz, one would appear to be promoting t-boning a car and this one I can't work out, other than saying don't ride a bike.

Virtual chocolate fish for something meaningful. (And before anyone starts, keeping up in group rides is a very long shot).

Dont overtake on yellow lines?

[Berries]

Dont overtake on yellow lines?
Yeah but the rider is not overtaking on a yellow line or even on the wrong side of a yellow line. That's why I don't get it.

[AllanB]

Down Duners way Sun - yesterday - saw a couple of those weird signs saying different things - think slow (at the start of the hill for fucks sake ..... that was a waste of tax money) think glow (I presumed ride hard to get your headers glowing).


Bright helmets yes. I don't wear hi-viz, but can I claim my bright red Ducati counts?

[Berries]

Down Duners way Sun - yesterday - saw a couple of those weird signs saying different things - think slow (at the start of the hill for fucks sake ..... that was a waste of tax money)
I had forgotten that one. There is Think Glow with a rider all in black with a hi-vis, fairly obvious what that one is promoting. Think Whoa which has the same rider approaching the side of a car. The implication to me is that the car has pulled out on the bike so not sure who that one is aimed at. I could be wrong but I think the rider is wearing hi-viz in that one which would reduce the effectiveness of the first message. Think Slow is the best one, it shows the wiggly road sign which means the complete opposite to me and then this one which could be viewed as being against hi-viz seeing as there are no other obvious messages. Who knows, it's too fucking clever for me.

Glad my levy is going to such good use.

[Bass]

Anyone wanking on about hi vis clothing or helmets is doing just that. We have total fucking morons driving in front of FUCKING LOCOMOTOVES!!!!!!!..

None of this is absolute.
There are those who take all the precautions we have been discussing but still get taken out.
There are those who take none of them but still get through unscathed.
It's about improving your chances and there are no guarantees.

Also, everything you say about locomotives is true (and rather well said). We have more people dying from walking in front of them than driving in front of them. What does that tell you?
However that's mostly up here in Auckland. Maybe there's a clue there.

[awayatc]

Clothing Nazis can suck my dick.

Much luck with lines like that.....?




regarding (hi) viz subject....
there was a very interesting link on kb a long while ago about why people don't see things.
was done by an ex RAF fighter pilot.

somebody with more skills/patience may be able to dredge it up

[Grumph]

Yeah but the rider is not overtaking on a yellow line or even on the wrong side of a yellow line. That's why I don't get it.

If the arse end of a car was in picture on the right it would be somewhat less ambiguous..

[FatMax]

It appears that your balls have shrunk since moving in with a failed lesbian.

:2thumbsup:2thumbsup:lol::lol::lol::first::clap::c lap::killingme:killingme

[rastuscat]

Being seen is such a huge combination of factors. I've mentioned them before.

This ain't about hi viz. That's a part of the picture, but only a small part.

Forget hi viz for a minute. Think about how you can make yourself more visible without looking like an orange or a lemon. There's plenty of ways.

[rastuscat]

Fully agree.

Did a hazard Identification exercise on one course that changed how I look at the road ahead.

Seeing is a two way street. People will generally not pull out in front of you if their mind sees you. Not just their eyes, their mind.

So be good at looking, but also get good at helping people see you. That's all I'm saying.

And it's not about hi viz.

[Madness]

Think about how you can make yourself more visible without looking like an orange or a lemon. There's plenty of ways.


http://canadamotoguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/sendoff_bananas.jpg

[Maha]

I will always agree with Steve's view on this topic.

Saving yourself starts with knowing your limit/knowing your immediate surroundings-conditions and being vigilant.

Two very good points from Rastus first post.
:Positioning for max visibility and conspicuity are my favourite solutions.
:Ride where you can be seen and where you have the best visibility.

Hi Viz (yellow not orange) is absolutely fine if it helps with your psyche.

[Moi]

...regarding (hi) viz subject...
there was a very interesting link on kb a long while ago about why people don't see things.
was done by an ex RAF fighter pilot.

somebody with more skills/patience may be able to dredge it up

This might be it:

Seems to be the original: http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

A pdf of the above: http://www.cycleclub.co.nz/pdf_docs/RideSkills/HowEyesWork_30504.pdf

A pdf of the above with additions: http://www.slobc.org/safety/documents/road-survival-guide.pdf

[Ulsterkiwi]

Rastus's whole point is bullshit.

Things won't improve until we place more importance on opening our own fucking eyes than on what we're wearing.

Clothing Nazis can suck my dick.

please, tell us what you really think.

Perhaps if a rider is putting enough thinking into their positioning and behaviour to raise their conspicuity, its because they are paying attention to what's going on around them? Why do the two things have to be mutually exclusive?
For sure, thinking that because you have hi-viz on or do certain things that entitles you to ignore whats going an around you is an huge issue. Just look at the muppets who have no earthly clue how to use a merge lane, throw an indicator out (maybe) move across solid lines and pay no attention to the speed or volume of traffic already on the road being joined or adapt their speed or positioning to suit. No dammit! I am on a merge lane, I will fucking merge! Thats cages AND bikes of course.

[Katman]

The problem here is that we steadfastly refuse to address the real issue.

The licensing requirements for motorcyclists is hopelessly inadequate.

Am I reading it right in the 'Professionalism' thread that you're allowed to fail 25 points and yet still pass?

We need to stop settling for mediocrity.

[nerrrd]

The attentiveness of drivers covers a whole spectrum, they don't all drive in front of trains. Similarly a whole lot of them will see hivis because it it's used widely on the road as a way to get their attention, so they're expecting to see it, and know what it means. At the same time a whole lot of them will 'choose' not to see it because they're running late, texting, or just don't give a shit. Riding in such a way that I'm positioned where a driver would expect another car to be has always worked for me as well (in Auckland traffic), which some might say is asking for trouble, yet I've never had an accident involving another vehicle, YMMV.

So it's likely that hivis will help sometimes, but not always. Positioning, planning ahead, good lighting etc, it all helps, but won't necessarily work all the time. For me I want to use as many tools as I can to improve my chances of being seen on the road. But then I'm never going to buy an R1, get my knee down or wear one piece leathers either, so my approach to riding is different to a lot of others (ie waaaay more boring.) The motorcycle industry caters for us all, thank god, I wouldn't want to live in a world without R1s, Harleys and all the other fantastic, beautiful bikes out there.

We all choose our own level of self preservation, but I think it's stupid to dismiss any one measure out of hand just because it doesn't appeal. Although that's a very human thing to do - the world is grey people, as much as we would prefer it all to be black and white. A splash of hivis might help.

[Katman]

And the other issue that we seem reluctant to address is that there are still far too many motorcyclists who see no problem with treating public roads as racetracks.

Quite how we fix that problem is anyone's guess.

[Maha]

And the other issue that we seem reluctant to address is that there are still far too many motorcyclists who see no problem with treating public roads as racetracks.

Quite how we fix that problem is anyone's guess.

That whole race track mentality with some riders is never going to stop. STJim (a Ulysses mentor) once told a group ride that '' once we're on SH22 anyone that wants to race that is the place to do it''... some of us were jaw dropped at that suggestion and went another way....home.

[Ulsterkiwi]

The problem here is that we steadfastly refuse to address the real issue.

The licensing requirements for motorcyclists is hopelessly inadequate.

Am I reading it right in the 'Professionalism' thread that you're allowed to fail 25 points and yet still pass?

We need to stop settling for mediocrity.

you have a point about the ease of gaining a licence.

I do not know all the ins and outs of the CBTA motorcycle assessment, I do know more than a little about assessment of competency and assessment of performance in general.
So here is my take and I defer to those who know better if I am wrong. What you are reading about is that for the restricted licence CBTA test, the pass mark is 75%. That's pretty high some would argue. The system works on a negative scoring scheme which I have my own ideas about but there it is. Each negative mark is something the rider has missed, perhaps not using their indicator when they should have or exceeding the speed limit by more than 5kph for more than 5 seconds, perhaps even accelerating to a higher speed BEFORE the sign. Would you say someone is not competent because they make one mistake like that? 2? 5? 10 over a period of close to an hour? Of course some errors are instant fails.
25 omissions or mistakes might sound like a lot but some of them would be argued as not worthy of note by many experienced riders on here.
I think what is gained by this system is an assessor can gain a useful picture of the consistency a candidate can demonstrate. My understanding is anyone who fails CBTA is given a full debrief and advice how to resolve and improve. Most improvement is that which can be demonstrated consistently in a variety of situations.
Of course this all sinks or swims on what you believe is achieved by any assessment. If its a certification it usually indicates a MINIMUM standard. If we do not subscribe to idea of lifelong learning then noone will ever progress beyond the minimum.
Back on track, opening your eyes, absolutely its first principles, but then what?

[Old Steve]

I try to do everything/anything which will increase my chances of survival. Yes, wearing hi-viz is one of them, only one, and I've said before that I'd wear a pink tutu if I thought it'd gave me an extra 1% chance of survival. Been thinking lately about putting a lime green plastic mohawk on my helmet.

So, I:

Wear a hi-viz vest
Wear a white helmet
Wear ATGATT
Ride my own ride, within my capabilities (and sorry if I've held you up on the motorway on my way to and from work)
Check my bike, tires, brakes regularly
Ride in the right hand (fast) lane on the motorway so I only have to worry about cars on one side of me
Move within my lane to present car drivers with a moving object which is more easily seen than one in the same visual position
Have a PLAN B, a "what if?" plan
Watch other vehicles, watch the driver's hands on the wheel, watch their head for indications they're using their mirrors in anticipation of changing lanes, watch their wheels.
Watch for potential hazards, does that parked car have a driver in it, could a child run out between those parked cars, could that car continue out from that driveway, watch the road surface, watch for lane splitting motorcyclists coming up from behind
Don't ride over road markings even on a dry day, that way it becomes a habit to avoid them in the wet
Slow before corners, better to go in too slow than overheated
Use my space, own the road, don't give cars the suggestion that they can squeeze passed you
Do the 'happy biker weave' when I see a car stopped at a side road, they just might see my headlight moving across their field of vision and not pull out
Ride well back from the car in front, so what if another car pulls into the gap in front of you you'll get there eventually
Make sure the way is clear at intersections, stop at stop signs, look right, left and right again at give ways, better to give way than to make a mistake
Believe that 'Right of way' is something you are given, not something you have by right, it's no use saying from your hospital bed, "But, I had the right of way!"
Slow down on wet roads, slow down in reduced visibility
Don't drink and ride, not one drink - I don't have the skills to ride on two wheels with any impairment from alcohol, however slight
Make sure my pillion is secure before I ride off, ride conservatively when carrying a pillion
Ease to the left when approaching the crest of a hill to give myself more space and time if some idiot is passing coming up the other side
Get out, get passed and get back in when overtaking
Engage brain before turning on the ignition, no outside thoughts while riding, concetrate on the job in hand


And probably a lot more that I do by habit, without thinking about them. So I'm a nanny rider, hopefully I become a really old nanny rider.

Yeah, I wear a hi-viz and I don't care if you do or not. But wearing a hi-viz isn't the answer to all our hazards, it's only one component of a very complex picture including self awareness and awareness of others on the road.

[eldog]

None of this is absolute.
It's about improving your chances and there are no guarantees.

Also, everything you say about locomotives is true.
However that's mostly up here in Auckland. Maybe there's a clue there.

Some use the tracks as a means to an end, that's entirely their choice. Often unavoidable in the mind of the participant. Sad to see it unfolding.

[Katman]

Back on track, opening your eyes, absolutely its first principles, but then what?

Engaging the brain.

[Maha]

I try to do everything/anything which will increase my chances of survival. Yes, wearing hi-viz is one of them, only one, and I've said before that I'd wear a pink tutu if I thought it'd gave me an extra 1% chance of survival. Been thinking lately about putting a lime green plastic mohawk on my helmet.

So, I:

Wear a hi-viz vest
Wear a white helmet
Wear ATGATT
Ride my own ride, within my capabilities (and sorry if I've held you up on the motorway on my way to and from work)
Check my bike, tires, brakes regularly
Ride in the right hand (fast) lane on the motorway so I only have to worry about cars on one side of me
Move within my lane to present car drivers with a moving object which is more easily seen than one in the same visual position
Have a PLAN B, a "what if?" plan
Watch other vehicles, watch the driver's hands on the wheel, watch their head for indications they're using their mirrors in anticipation of changing lanes, watch their wheels.
Watch for potential hazards, does that parked car have a driver in it, could a child run out between those parked cars, could that car continue out from that driveway, watch the road surface, watch for lane splitting motorcyclists coming up from behind
Don't ride over road markings even on a dry day, that way it becomes a habit to avoid them in the wet
Slow before corners, better to go in too slow than overheated
Use my space, own the road, don't give cars the suggestion that they can squeeze passed you
Do the 'happy biker weave' when I see a car stopped at a side road, they just might see my headlight moving across their field of vision and not pull out
Ride well back from the car in front, so what if another car pulls into the gap in front of you you'll get there eventually
Make sure the way is clear at intersections, stop at stop signs, look right, left and right again at give ways, better to give way than to make a mistake
Believe that 'Right of way' is something you are given, not something you have by right, it's no use saying from your hospital bed, "But, I had the right of way!"
Slow down on wet roads, slow down in reduced visibility
Don't drink and ride, not one drink - I don't have the skills to ride on two wheels with any impairment from alcohol, however slight
Make sure my pillion is secure before I ride off, ride conservatively when carrying a pillion
Ease to the left when approaching the crest of a hill to give myself more space and time if some idiot is passing coming up the other side
Get out, get passed and get back in when overtaking
Engage brain before turning on the ignition, no outside thoughts while riding, concetrate on the job in hand


And probably a lot more that I do by habit, without thinking about them. So I'm a nanny rider, hopefully I become a really old nanny rider.

Yeah, I wear a hi-viz and I don't care if you do or not. But wearing a hi-viz isn't the answer to all our hazards, it's only one component of a very complex picture including self awareness and awareness of others on the road.

Some excellent points there Steve.
These in particular.

Ride my own ride, within my capabilities
Ride in the right hand (fast) lane on the motorway so I only have to worry about cars on one side of me
Move within my lane to present car drivers with a moving object which is more easily seen than one in the same visual position
Have a PLAN B, a "what if?" plan
Watch for potential hazards, does that parked car have a driver in it, could a child run out between those parked cars, could that car continue out from that driveway, watch the road surface, watch for lane splitting motorcyclists coming up from behind
Make sure the way is clear at intersections, stop at stop signs, look right, left and right again at give ways, better to give way than to make a mistake
Slow down on wet roads, slow down in reduced visibility
Make sure my pillion is secure before I ride off, ride conservatively when carrying a pillion
Get out, get passed and get back in when overtaking


I am not one for ear plugs or music playing while riding, to me it takes away one of your senses.
When passing a truck trailer combo, I am always very aware of driveways to the left where potentially, a car could dart in order to beat the truck and be in a head on position with me.

[Scubbo]

white helmets seem to be the goes, most bikes you can't see the rider/high-vis when they're coming towards you --- I guess high-vis helps with the side on detection? but how often are you moving side-on on a motorbike :shifty:

[boozehound]

On the road you have one responsibility, get yourself and anyone you interact with home alive...

If hi vis works for you, just do it. Live and let live, its far better than the alternative of live and let die....
I think old steve has called it, better to ride like a nana and live to be old than ride like a hooligan, and die young like one. Just remember you can't ride when you are dead.

[pritch]

Anyone wanking on about hi vis clothing or helmets is doing just that. We have total fucking morons driving in front of FUCKING LOCOMOTOVES!!!!!!!. They have a headlight that'd melt the berg that sunk the Titanic. They make the ground shake like a 3.5 quake, and a horn that makes you poo your pants. Yet lots of our licenced drivers, get smashed by them year after year. If the train had a high vis bib...do you half wits think it'd make an iota of difference? Of fucking course not. Get a fucking grip.


I'm in awe of your metaphors but gotta share the love so no bling.

The OP makes good points about positioning yourself on the road so as to make yourself visible. When I was riding the moped though people would stare right at you then just pull into the space that you were about to occupy. I'm convinced that old research that found drivers react to perceived threats was right. Why they don't perceive a truck, tank (yes *), bus, or even a train as a threat is beyond me. Although I do need to work on that myself as I cross a railway line most days.

Hi Viz is a crock of shit at the best of times but locally there is a major road reconstruction project which includes a couple of new bridges. For a year or so now there has been a whole variety of road cones, barriers, markers and sundry other orange hardware for maybe a couple of kilometres. There are still swarms of dudes in Hi Viz vests. Good luck to anyone who thinks wearing Hi Viz around here is going to help them.


*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-FZfGoPYWU

[Ulsterkiwi]

Engaging the brain.

which is kinda my point, no aspect of riding can be broken down to a single "do this and you are sorted" solution.
Rastus point (I think) was think about what YOU are doing, you (I think) are saying think what OTHERS are doing.
Both necessary, both need to be worked on, in all cases having a licence (passing a test) is an indication that you achieved the minimum standard to get going on the road.
I don't know about you but I would rather go a bit beyond the minimum.

[Jin]

Loud pipes are more effective than loud clothes.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The OP makes good points about positioning yourself on the road so as to make yourself visible. l]

Yeah true, but that's hardly rocket science.

[BuzzardNZ]

Loud pipes are more effective than loud clothes.

+1

I Agree.

[Erelyes]

Loud pipes are more effective than loud clothes.

Depends on the bike and the pipe. And the clothes. You might end up looking like a tool in either case.

[Moi]

I try to do everything/anything which will increase my chances of survival...

Yeah, I wear a hi-viz and I don't care if you do or not. But wearing a hi-viz isn't the answer to all our hazards, it's only one component of a very complex picture including self awareness and awareness of others on the road.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Old Steve again.
Thoughtful commentary.

[willytheekid]

Rastuscat is quite right :yes:



I find if I wear my "tidy" gear (Worn out textile gear, but looks all PC and friendly)...people don't really see me and generaly act like the standard blind driver :facepalm:

BUT...if I wear my "comfy" gear (Over a decade old leathers covered in KB patches and crap...looks like a gang member thats been through a bush backwards!)...the other road users seem to notice me more, stop tailgating, cutting me off and generally give me a wider berth.


Hence...sod the "standard" Hi Viz look, I recommend the"hit me...and Im GOING to get up...and then kill you!" look :laugh:

Example:

http://www.heapsoffun.com/pictures/20120207/bikelist_with_gun_on_back_m1001.jpg

...anyone wanna cut this guy above off:shifty:
...yeah...didn't fuckin think so ;) (Now imagine it was a High Viz AK47!:blink:...I want a pink my little pony one personally :bleh:)



Ride Safe KBers :love: (and Ride "armed" with some Hi Viz lol)

[pritch]

I recommend the"hit me...and Im GOING to get up...and then kill you!" look :laugh:


Firepower FTW.:ar15:

[skinman]

looking like a popo seems to make a differance. cant take it for granted though.

[skinman]

I have a white helmet now :)

[Swoop]

Cant look like rossi wearing hi viz...
What?
The italian gimp wears so much day-glo yellow that he's never going to crash!
2016 Motogp season is proof of that...
:shifty:


We need to stop settling for mediocrity.
You are tilting at a societal windmill there.
Dumbing-down to accommodate the inherently stupid, is what we have been witnessing for the past three decades. Just wait until the licencing course for ANY type of vehicle is an "attendance only" course...

[Swoop]

...anyone wanna cut this guy above off:shifty:
Yup.
He's slung the rifle incorrectly.

[Maha]

looking like a popo seems to make a differance. cant take it for granted though.

Emergency services wear yellow vests whereas road workers wear orange looking very much like the cones that surround them, until they move that is (the workers not the cones) which is not that often.

[Jin]

We need to stop settling for mediocrity.
Who's we? You got a frog in your pocket?

[Old Steve]

I think old steve has called it, better to ride like a nana and live to be old than ride like a hooligan, and die young like one.

I do wish you hadn't quoted me on that one boozie.

[rastuscat]

Loud pipes are more effective than loud clothes.

321482

Just sayin.

[Maha]

Just sayin.

Yip I am sure there are dead bikers that had loud pipes giving lie to that silly saying.

I had a T Shirt printed a few years ago. Words supplied by DMNTD...and a photo of a Reflective vest option.

[scumdog]

Yup.
He's slung the rifle incorrectly.

Maybe he doesn't want the cocking-handle gouging his kidneys?

[Berries]

That's what my wife says.

[Jin]

321482

Just sayin.
If high viz saved lives imagine what learning to ride that thing could do.

Just saying.

[nerrrd]

Hence...sod the "standard" Hi Viz look, I recommend the"hit me...and Im GOING to get up...and then kill you!" look :laugh:

Yeah I could never pull that off sadly.


looking like a popo seems to make a differance. cant take it for granted though.

Especially when the Asian lady comes up to you in the supermarket carpark waving a ticket at you and and asking you to, errr, take it back I guess.

And today as a lady in a hatchback indicated and turned right in front of me without any hesitation, I thought of this thread. Still, we both made enough of an evasive manoeuvre in the end so as not to collide, so something worked somewhere. Reminded me that my reaction time is shit though - didn't even get on the horn, just braked, swerved and carried on.

[Berries]

Reminded me that my reaction time is shit though - didn't even get on the horn, just braked, swerved and carried on.
There is a lesson right there. What would the horn have done apart from waste that millisecond or two you needed to avoid the crash? Mine only gets used for the WOF and to scare children.

[PistonBlown]

Rastuscat is quite right :yes:



I find if I wear my "tidy" gear (Worn out textile gear, but looks all PC and friendly)...people don't really see me and generaly act like the standard blind driver :facepalm:

BUT...if I wear my "comfy" gear (Over a decade old leathers covered in KB patches and crap...looks like a gang member thats been through a bush backwards!)...the other road users seem to notice me more, stop tailgating, cutting me off and generally give me a wider berth.


Hence...sod the "standard" Hi Viz look, I recommend the"hit me...and Im GOING to get up...and then kill you!" look :laugh:

Example:

http://www.heapsoffun.com/pictures/20120207/bikelist_with_gun_on_back_m1001.jpg

...anyone wanna cut this guy above off:shifty:
...yeah...didn't fuckin think so ;) (Now imagine it was a High Viz AK47!:blink:...I want a pink my little pony one personally :bleh:)



Ride Safe KBers :love: (and Ride "armed" with some Hi Viz lol)


Huh you call that a gun, this is more like it...:-)

https://youtu.be/6kMpY1TEGng?t=59

Or for moped riders there's always the Vespa 150 TAP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP

[swbarnett]

There is a lesson right there. What would the horn have done apart from waste that millisecond or two you needed to avoid the crash? Mine only gets used for the WOF and to scare children.
That depends. I don't use my left thumb for emergency braking so it can go on the horn at the same time. I've used my horn as a deterrent a time or two in the last thirty years and it doesn't work all the time but it does work. Better to have two people trying to correct a bad situation than just one.

[Berries]

A deterrent is one thing, a warning to someone indicating to change lanes as you ride through their blind spot. But if someone hasn't seen you and you are a full second from impact why even bother to try and get their attention? Even if they do have great reaction times they are going to do something other than what they are doing, like stop and take out your escape route or accelerate and take out your other escape route. Worrying about the horn in those (most) circumstances is wasted brain effort when you need to be in full on survival mode.

Each to their own. I assume the horn button on my four month old bike is on the left hand handle bar. I'm just as likely to flash my headlights to tell them to pull out.

[awayatc]

That depends. I don't use my left thumb for emergency braking so it can go on the horn at the same time. I've used my horn as a deterrent a time or two in the last thirty years and it doesn't work all the time but it does work. Better to have two people trying to correct a bad situation than just one.

Agree completely..

always install loudest possible stebel horn on my bikes.
don't use them often.....
But when i do they get heard, and definitely have saved my day once or twice.....

[Maha]

That depends. I don't use my left thumb for emergency braking so it can go on the horn at the same time. I've used my horn as a deterrent a time or two in the last thirty years and it doesn't work all the time but it does work. Better to have two people trying to correct a bad situation than just one.

I had a stebel on my Sprint years ago, used it effectively on occasion most bike horns sound like they are made by Fisher Price.

[swbarnett]

I had a stebel on my Sprint years ago, used it effectively on occasion most bike horns sound like they are made by Fisher Price.
I only have the standard horn (actually a car horn from Repco after the original packed up). It seems to work when I need it. Although I dare say I'd get a quicker response with a stebel.

[pritch]

always install loudest possible stebel horn on my bikes.

Indeed. There was somebody on KB used to do group deals and that's how I got my last one.

I refer to it as my "wake the fuck up" horn. In dire situations though it tends to get overlooked, I'm too busy.

[Ocean1]

Indeed. There was somebody on KB used to do group deals and that's how I got my last one.

I've had them on three of my bikes. They've all been fairly involved installs that I didn't want to remove, so I keep having to buy new ones.

The SDR is overdue for one...

[awayatc]

Indeed. There was somebody on KB used to do group deals and that's how I got my last one.

I refer to it as my "wake the fuck up" horn. In dire situations though it tends to get overlooked, I'm too busy.

Buy on flea bay..... at least as cheap as the group deal on kb

a horn is a very important bit of kit in my mind.

no point in having to use it in anger and not being heard /taken seriously.


Once booted Stebel on my little pegaso at an Asian lady pretending i wasn't there....
She stalled her car in middle of intersection looking all panicky at all directions at once, trying to see where the Mack truck was that tooted the fuck off button at her.....

she never looked twice at my wee bike.

[awayatc]

I've had them on three of my bikes. They've all been fairly involved installs that I didn't want to remove, so I keep having to buy new ones.

The SDR is overdue for one...

Should be a piece of piss for a man with your skills....

i always use original horn wire as signal wire on relay....

Relays always handy for heated hangrips, usb chargers etc.....

[Maha]

Once booted Stebel on my little pegaso at an Asian lady pretending i wasn't there....
She stalled her car in middle of intersection looking all panicky at all directions at once, trying to see where the Mack truck was that tooted the fuck off button at her.....

she never looked twice at my wee bike.

Similar to what I had in Orewa... two young lads in a car driving really slow looking for a park, driver would brake then move on brake then move. After about the fourth go at not finding a park I lent on the Stebel and two heads were looking everywhere for the noise..they had the windows down and as I went passed they were laughing and said '' thought you were a truck''!

Maverick (member here years ago) use to import them ten at a time to keep the cost down and on sell them, not sure how much it cost though.

[Ocean1]

Should be a piece of piss for a man with your skills....

i always use original horn wire as signal wire on relay....

Relays always handy for heated hangrips, usb chargers etc.....

Skills. :laugh:

Me and auto-electrical stuff are a match made in hell. The last two were in a Buell 1125 and an XB12X, the wiring wasn't too bad but both took a couple of hrs nipping and tucking inside the cowling to get the buggers to fit without touching anything delicate.

The only reason there's not one on the SDR yet is the fact it's not immediately clear where I could fit one at all let alone neatly and unobtrusively.

It's a long standing disappointment to me that I've never owned a machine aesthetically suitable for the fucking great DX loco air horn lurking somewhere out in the workshop.

[Erelyes]

she never looked twice at my wee bike.

Er, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose?

[F5 Dave]

Ride naked.

[bluninja]

Nah. Life ain't a race.

Sure it is....arriving at the finish line in first place in the slowest possible time :)

[Maha]

Don't drink and ride, not one drink - I don't have the skills to ride on two wheels with any impairment from alcohol, however slight


When ever we had a party at home, anyone that turned up and was going to be drinking handed over their keys. They got them back in the morning.
At a party up north, a female was seen in the garage around 11pm gearing up after some hours of drinking, she lived about 2 hours away. It took three of us to convince her it was not a good idea..and to ride home with us the next day.

[pritch]

Once booted Stebel on my little pegaso at an Asian lady pretending i wasn't there....
She stalled her car in middle of intersection looking all panicky at all directions at once, trying to see where the Mack truck was that tooted the fuck off button at her.....

she never looked twice at my wee bike.

Had a similar thing in Devon St, although not Asian, the woman looked at the bike then kept on looking. But at least she was looking then which was an improvement.

[F5 Dave]

Sounds like the steinlager experiment. We set up an obstacle course and got people to drink and recorded the results. Then we had a big party afterwards. D(r)uncen wanted to ride home. Didn't happen.

[Grumph]

Skills. :laugh:

It's a long standing disappointment to me that I've never owned a machine aesthetically suitable for the fucking great DX loco air horn lurking somewhere out in the workshop.

Paint it orange, CNC a couple of alloy mounts and bolt it on...Claim it's a factory option.

[eldog]

Similar to what I had in Orewa... two young lads in a car


must be the beers

[eldog]

Sounds like the steinlager experiment. We set up an obstacle course and got people to drink and recorded the results. Then we had a big party afterwards. D(r)uncen wanted to ride home. Didn't happen.

Wrong.
lots of people,loud music, party then set up obstacle courses see what happens.

Steinlagers not so good in the morning

[F5 Dave]

Wrong.
lots of people,loud music, party then set up obstacle courses see what happens.

Steinlagers not so good in the morning
Wrong? It didnt happen?

Yeah its shit beer but there was a reason for the name based on a magazine article. And we were mostly riding instructors.

[eldog]

Wrong? It didnt happen?

Yeah its shit beer but there was a reason for the name based on a magazine article. And we were mostly riding instructors.

Wasn't questioning what happened sorry. Would be interesting to see what did.

I was only thinking it would be much more fun doing it my way.

Now a message from my sponsor 'drink Heineken and go on KB' hopefully won't remember a thing in the morning :drinkup:

[Ocean1]

Paint it orange, CNC a couple of alloy mounts and bolt it on...Claim it's a factory option.

It fucking should be!

That, and a 50cal chain gun...

[F5 Dave]

Godh Heinikin gives me the same hangover as stienie does. Stienie pure is much more amenable. Although it varies in quality. Current batch is dreadful. One before was really nice.

[eldog]

Godh Heinikin gives me the same hangover as stienie does. Stienie pure is much more amenable. Although it varies in quality. Current batch is dreadful. One before was really nice.

That Steinie pure is quite nice. Didn't know it varies.
I suppose it's a bit like Guiness sometimes thick and heavy others quite thin. Nice with a shamrock of raspberry on top.:baby:

wonder that now I have been drinking for a few hours should I conduct that experiment with obstacles on the bike.

obviously wearing a hi vis 'bomb proof-no damage' jacket

[eldog]

It fucking should be!

That, and a 50cal chain gun...

And dual RPGs, oil slick tank..... Etc

sounds like Lady Penelope's car

wouldnt mind the loco air horn though

[James Deuce]

Sounds like the steinlager experiment. We set up an obstacle course and got people to drink and recorded the results. Then we had a big party afterwards. D(r)uncen wanted to ride home. Didn't happen.
Duncan was good value, but why the K1? I never understood that.

[James Deuce]

That Steinie pure is quite nice.

NO, it isn't. There's no excuse for drinking it when things like 8-Wire Superconductor and Panhead Supercharger exist.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah weird are choice, but his rather nice missus had just left him for another chick so I guess he was a little out there. Wonder where he is now?


Good old Duncan Swine.

[eldog]

NO, it isn't. There's no excuse for drinking it when things like 8-Wire Superconductor and Panhead Supercharger exist.

I am just starting out on the beer crusade, noob on that scene.

[James Deuce]

I am just starting out on the beer crusade, noob on that scene.Wise is your course. Abandon ye the breweries known as Lion, Kirin and Dominion, for they are purveyors of fizzy water that tastes of tin. Though verily, they are possessed of outliers in whom the malted hops are still venerated and amongst these lies still some hint of truth.

Seek ye a sour beer. Tis a revelation.

[Grumph]

It fucking should be!

That, and a 50cal chain gun...

Don't need to go that far, LOL, KTM's are an icebreaker of a bike anyway, at least the big ones are...
A mate down here, not a small chap....makes All Black locks look small....had a big KTM offroad twin until recently.
He was going down the Western Valley Rd on the peninsular and met a Subaru coming up at a rate of knots.
Hit head on, he went up the bonnet and broke the screen but undamaged....the KTM with forks compressed under heavy braking, went in between the headlight and the engine block. Up to the driveshaft on that side I'm told - like an axe.
End result, written off undriveable Subaru, some plastic scuffed on the KTM, not even a puncture and the front wheel was straight too.
Pulled out of the sub with some difficulty but no further KTM damage - and it was ridden home...
I saw it shortly afterward and it was hard to see any damage at all - impressive.

[MarkH]

Quite a few years ago I saw a guy riding with a white helmet, I actually saw the helmet first and my thought was "wow, that really stands out". My next helmet was white as was the one after that and the one after that.
I've also thought about that problem of one single headlight not really giving a lot of road presence, which I obviously COULD put out of my mind and hope for the best while riding . . .
I have opted for improving my lighting so that my bikes are a bit more visible to motorists in the hope that they actually notice them.

The ST1300:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Mo1WnGmzmho/Vzd5Smb12uI/AAAAAAAAFKE/-x8xAP_DMCgKxjTOcJWZRzFFjWnT1k5tACCo/s912/ST1300_LEDs2.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mG5psY4v6PM/VZiSynFTeEI/AAAAAAAAE40/Ya2PuaR0X_4lEB6OMlMWNzp3S9ogu_ELACCo/s1024/ST1300_LEDs.jpg

And now I've changed the handguards on the DR650 to give it a bit more visibility too (and that headlight really is that white - 4800 Lumens and draws only 30W):

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l6xyrJujqyk/Vzd5aH5SbFI/AAAAAAAAFKE/bsa-QpJId4AgOUec7fAjFpWSxIC_xSxJgCCo/s912/DR650_LEDs2.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nazvuCrx4dU/Vzd5a6sQicI/AAAAAAAAFKA/1bTeijLDXwQKHZap6LFecmdhJtHXlndXQCCo/s912/DR650_LEDs1.jpg

Of course this isn't the only solution, but I figure it couldn't hurt - especially at night when high viz wouldn't even be visible.

I've also been riding along a straight road when a car in front began slowing, there were no intersections coming up and the car wasn't indicating. I sure as fuck wasn't going to try passing a slowing car without knowing what it was going to do, so I braked as I watched it, they then turned right into a driveway and I was pretty darned happy that I hadn't tried to overtake.
Of course you can't anticipate what others will do 100% of the time so I ride ATGATT just in case it is needed to save my skin.

So yeah, gotta agree with Rastus - make yourself seen. Also a bit of caution, ride with you brain engaged, wear protective gear, keep within your limits, etc.

[eldog]

Wise is your course. Abandon ye the breweries known as Lion, Kirin and Dominion, for they are purveyors of fizzy water that tastes of tin. Though verily, they are possessed of outliers in whom the malted hops are still venerated and amongst these lies still some hint of truth.

Seek ye a sour beer. Tis a revelation.

The crusade has begun, getting the horse and provisions ready. Tis a long journey

[eldog]

Quite a few years ago I saw a guy riding with a white helmet, I actually saw the helmet first and my thought was "wow, that really stands out". My next helmet was white as was the one after that and the one after that.
I've also thought about that problem of one single headlight not really giving a lot of road presence, which I obviously COULD put out of my mind and hope for the best while riding . . .
I have opted for improving my lighting so that my bikes are a bit more visible to motorists in the hope that they actually notice them.
The ST1300:
And now I've changed the handguards on the DR650 to give it a bit more visibility too (and that headlight really is that white - 4800 Lumens and draws only 30W):

Of course this isn't the only solution, but I figure it couldn't hurt - especially at night when high viz wouldn't even be visible.

I've also been riding along a straight road when a car in front began slowing, there were no intersections coming up and the car wasn't indicating. I sure as fuck wasn't going to try passing a slowing car without knowing what it was going to do, so I braked as I watched it, they then turned right into a driveway and I was pretty darned happy that I hadn't tried to overtake.
Of course you can't anticipate what others will do 100% of the time so I ride ATGATT just in case it is needed to save my skin.

So yeah, gotta agree with Rastus - make yourself seen. Also a bit of caution, ride with you brain engaged, wear protective gear, keep within your limits, etc.

Excellent work and attitude:headbang::2thumbsup

[pritch]

There's no excuse for drinking it when things like 8-Wire Superconductor and Panhead Supercharger exist.

The price? I do like a lot of the boutique beers although some of the IPAs seem to be overdoing the hop thing, but $8.00 a bottle? OK it's 500ml but...

[Ocean1]

Wise is your course. Abandon ye the breweries known as Lion, Kirin and Dominion, for they are purveyors of fizzy water that tastes of tin. Though verily, they are possessed of outliers in whom the malted hops are still venerated and amongst these lies still some hint of truth.

Seek ye a sour beer. Tis a revelation.


The crusade has begun, getting the horse and provisions ready. Tis a long journey


The price? I do like a lot of the boutique beers although some of the IPAs seem to be overdoing the hop thing, but $8.00 a bottle? OK it's 500ml but...

Garage Project in Wgtn here are one of my clients. Panhead are just around the corner. I like some of the craft beers, and I love the frequent piss-take and boutique styles bu I'm not a great fan of the massive hops endemic to a lot of craft beers.

I do like the fact that they all actually taste different, a feature that's been absent from generic beers for almost forever.

[Ocean1]

Don't need to go that far, LOL, KTM's are an icebreaker of a bike anyway, at least the big ones are...
A mate down here, not a small chap....makes All Black locks look small....had a big KTM offroad twin until recently.
He was going down the Western Valley Rd on the peninsular and met a Subaru coming up at a rate of knots.
Hit head on, he went up the bonnet and broke the screen but undamaged....the KTM with forks compressed under heavy braking, went in between the headlight and the engine block. Up to the driveshaft on that side I'm told - like an axe.
End result, written off undriveable Subaru, some plastic scuffed on the KTM, not even a puncture and the front wheel was straight too.
Pulled out of the sub with some difficulty but no further KTM damage - and it was ridden home...
I saw it shortly afterward and it was hard to see any damage at all - impressive.

Sounds unlikely, although there's not much of any mass on your typical sedan there back to the axle. Certainly the frames are proper pieces of work. I see references to frame failures on Ducatis, and to be honest looking at the headstock convergent angles for example it doesn't surprise me. By comparison the SDR frame angles are far more in keeping with what you'd expect of a space frame based on a reasonable force/angle diagram.

Which isn't to say KTM is totally focused on typically Germanic engineered performance. Why would you put a single sided swingarm on a bike and then mount an exhaust right over the top of the wheel removing side of it?

Even so, I'll not be attempting any Sub-splitting exercises any time soon, thank you very much.

[James Deuce]

The price? I do like a lot of the boutique beers although some of the IPAs seem to be overdoing the hop thing, but $8.00 a bottle? OK it's 500ml but...
I'd rather have one, really enjoyable beer, than a dozen bottles of swill.

[James Deuce]

Which isn't to say KTM is totally focused on typically Germanic engineered performance. Why would you put a single sided swingarm on a bike and then mount an exhaust right over the top of the wheel removing side of it?



Honda are fond of the same level of stupidity.

[Berries]

The price? I do like a lot of the boutique beers although some of the IPAs seem to be overdoing the hop thing, but $8.00 a bottle? OK it's 500ml but...
What do you pay in the pub for a decent pint? In one of my regulars it is now $11 a pint (Emersons, Tuatara, Invercargill Brewery etc, not your Speights shit), so I am quite happy to pay $8 to $10 in New World for something I will enjoy in the comfort of my own armchair.

In my other regular I can get a jug of Monteiths IPA for $9. I go there more than the other place.

[Grumph]

Sounds unlikely, although there's not much of any mass on your typical sedan there back to the axle. Certainly the frames are proper pieces of work. I see references to frame failures on Ducatis, and to be honest looking at the headstock convergent angles for example it doesn't surprise me. By comparison the SDR frame angles are far more in keeping with what you'd expect of a space frame based on a reasonable force/angle diagram.

Which isn't to say KTM is totally focused on typically Germanic engineered performance. Why would you put a single sided swingarm on a bike and then mount an exhaust right over the top of the wheel removing side of it?

Even so, I'll not be attempting any Sub-splitting exercises any time soon, thank you very much.

Yeah, we looked hard around the steering head for paint cracks - none. Hard to believe yes, but true..I think he sold it for two reasons - he's a very quick rider on dirt roads and realised he was lucky to walk away from this one...and he would always have that niggling worry we'd missed something. I even went around the spokes looking for uneven tension - nothing.

[Ocean1]

Yeah, we looked hard around the steering head for paint cracks - none. Hard to believe yes, but true..I think he sold it for two reasons - he's a very quick rider on dirt roads and realised he was lucky to walk away from this one...and he would always have that niggling worry we'd missed something. I even went around the spokes looking for uneven tension - nothing.

*googles western valley rd*... Oh aye, looks like a grand place to play. And I've done just that on many a similar road.

Did you look at the headstoock bearings?

But he's right, 140hp dirt bikes on open roads are a statistic waiting for real life to add up the numbers. They've tried to kill better men than me on roads without intruding Subarus. They've succeeded. Realistically the most I can even pretend to manage in either case is my 525, and even on that it's even odds as to which of us will kill the other first.

[F5 Dave]

That Garage project BEER is my current favorite, maybe. Simple but good. But I do like a good pilsner and Panhead do a nice one. They aren't cheap though. That's why I have to buy cheaper brands. Some are very drinkable, but only sometimes. Bought some Montieths pilsner today and its a good batch and very nice.

Currently imbibing some Wither Hill sav. Fantastic and like $12 a bottle from supermarket. Juverly.

[AllanB]

Which isn't to say KTM is totally focused on typically Germanic engineered performance. Why would you put a single sided swingarm on a bike and then mount an exhaust right over the top of the wheel removing side of it?


Ditto on my Ducati - the mufflers need to be removed to pull the wheel off the single sided swingarm. Easy job though but - yeah - WTF.

Plus the mufflers cover some of the awsomeness of the swingarmless side of the wheel.

[Ocean1]

Ditto on my Ducati - the mufflers need to be removed to pull the wheel off the single sided swingarm. Easy job though but - yeah - WTF.

Plus the mufflers cover some of the awsomeness of the swingarmless side of the wheel.

Imagine how much better they could be if it wasn't for fashion.

[Swoop]

Imagine how much better they could be if it wasn't for fashion.

Due to the current "fashion" being fluoro, either an '80's retro theme has resurged OR the brain-dead osh fuckwits have invaded.
Sadly it appears to be the latter.

[Maha]

white helmets seem to be the goes, most bikes you can't see the rider/high-vis when they're coming towards you --- I guess high-vis helps with the side on detection? but how often are you moving side-on on a motorbike :shifty:

Scubbo has a point here. High-vis does very little to nothing when vehicles are coming towards you, headlight on is the best we can do. Fluoro is most effect at night but mainly where headlights from behind are hitting you. But I don't recall ever hearing that the wearing of a fluoro vest would have saved this life.