TYRE ADVICE

[The Stranger]

As some of you may be aware, I got a puncture the other day nessesitating the replacement of my rear tyre.
It was suggested that the Avon Azaro AV46 was a good replacement for the exsisting Bridgestone BT56.
The gentleman at the tyre shop suggested that we could probably get away with not changing the front (BT57) also as he felt that the two would probably work together OK.

Whilst I am impressed with the superior road holding of the Avon there are some traits that I am not happy with.
I am uncertain if the negative traits are the tyre itself or just the fact that there is a mismatch between the front and the rear.

What effects would i be likely to notice as a rusult of miss matched tyres?
Is there anyone out there who has experience with Avon Azaro AV46 tyres and what was your general impression of the tyre?

Just trying to decide weather to replace the front with a matching one or biff the rear and go to a different tyre.

[ManDownUnder]

Dunno about the techo stuff - Frosty and co will advise you better than I...

But something I can recomend is getting tyres in from the US. If you know anyone heading up that way - buy a tyre online and have it shipped to the hotel/place they're staying.

Bring it back as checked luggage... and you'll save 50%.

I know - I did... and I'll do it again!
MDU

[WINJA]

NO AVON WOULD BE A GOOD REPLACMENT FOR A BRIDGESTONE, IF I WERE YOU I WOULDA GOT ANOTHER BRIDGESTONE , ASK THE GUY WHO SOLD IT TO YOU HOW MANY SPORTSBIKES HES OWNED AND HOW MANY KS HES DONE ON THE , BMW DONT COUNT .
WITH MISMATCHED TYRES A BIKE CAN TRY TO HIT THE APEX OR RUN WIDE DEPENDING ON THE PROFILES , THIS IS USUALLY BAD BUT NOT ALWAYS , I USED A PILOT RACE FRONT AND A BT56 REAR AND THE BIKE WAS TRYING TO RUN INTO THE APEX WHICH WAS HARD TO CONTROL CRUISING BUT WORKED GOOD WHEN SLIDING THE FRONT INTO A CORNER, THERES NOTHING LIKE A SET OF MATCHED TYRES TO GIVE YOU CONFIDENCE.
I HATE AVONS AFTER TRYING 2 SETS , DOESNT MEAN YOU WONT LIKE EM

[bugjuice]

I've got Avons on my sprotsbike, Winj... but they're the new Vipers..

Not sure about the actual effects of mismatched tyres, but some of it could be upstairs, so try not to over think stuff too much.

One thing that is obvious, is that tyre manufacturers design their tyres in pairs, they rarely consider other models, but forget other brands. That being said, it depends on how hard you ride it. The Blackbird is a big beast, so fast corners would demand high grip. But do you ride that hard? If you do, then may be buy a new pair, or replace the back (the place where you've bought it, he's told me that if I wasn't happy with my tyres, he'd replace it, so may be give that a go) for another BS that you had before..

[Big Dave]

I have a combination of 46 and 47 Avons and am very happy with them.
Sports front/ sports-touring rear.

rear wear is about normal for a $300 bit of rubber.
They are very well suited to heavier bikes and carry a high load rating.

You've adjusted suspension? Tried different damping settings and preload?

[cowpoos]

michelin power pilot for the best grip you can get...about $280 for a 190 rear

Or if you want some thing that'll last abit and have reasonable grip...dunlop D208's would be a good choice...$315 for a 180 rear...

[The Stranger]

The bike feels way different. Turns in quicker (big plus on a bike that size) and feels more planted/confident in the turns. I have a set of reference corners that I used for adjusting the suspension and I can get through those quicker by a reasonable margin with the avon and at the same time I feel more relaxed about it.

What is pissing me off though is a vibration at motorway speed and above. This got better when I took it back for balance. After that I thought it may "wear" out as the tyre got some use or may be the result of the different tread pattern.

I was advised that I may notice a low amplitude weave at low speeds as a result of the mismatch. This you can clearly feel. But as I spend so little time at 15kmh that in itself is of no concern.

But by the end of the ride today my wrists were sore as a result of about an hour of motorway speed.

[Lou Girardin]

The AV46 has an unusual belt design that compensates for less than ideal suspensions, probably not an issue with your bike, and gives a very smooth ride.. But this belt design also seems to create some vagueness when riding fast. I had no problems with the Avons, apart from spinning up quite easily in the wet. But Metz Z6's are in a different league.

[Blackbird]

Winja is way out of date on Avon technology but he's spot on about never mixing your tyre profiles. In fact, the AV45/46 Azaros are recommended tyres for the Blackbird. Now, here's the catch - there are two types of AV45/46! The first set of Avons I fitted were good tyres but the front developed a funny wear pattern, sort of triangling off on the sides. I put this down to the tyre casing deflecting when I was pushing on a bit in corners. I may well have been right because there is a special Azaro which was developed for heavy hyperbikes like the Hayabusa, ZX 12-R and Blackbird. They have a stronger carcass construction and have the words "Load Range B" on the sidewall. These are the only ones you should use. I got my current ones from Road and Sport in Hamilton, but I guess the major suppliers in Auckland will have them. The Vipers are also great but being a softer compound, will wear more quickly. All depends on fitness for your style of riding.

Additional reading: http://www.bikersoracle.com/jaws/avon.htm
http://www.bikersoracle.com/jaws/bridgestone.htm

[Groins_NZ]

Some KBr's talked about mixing tyres in this thread:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=15401

[madmal64]

Real Happy with my Azaro's. Im on to my 2nd set. I came of Dunlops which I felt were on so good. I feel alot more confident on the Avons and had my 1st track time with them last weekend at Manfeild and they were heaps better than the Dunlops.
Im no expert on tyres and all I can go by is what suits me and my riding style. I know what I like and what I feel confident with.

[The Stranger]

Thanks for that Blackbird and hey I never take WINJA seriously anyway.

[Blackbird]

No worries :niceone:

I find 40-42 psi cold is about right front and rear. Lower than that, you can feel it's a bit squirmy unless it's a hot day. Above that and it will slide a bit more easily if you're pushing on.

You mentioned that weave at low speed. I notice it every time I have the Avons changed but it seems to go away quite quickly. Either that or I get used to it! Avon call it "tread pickup" from the large blocks of tread running in one direction and then the other.

Geoff

[WINJA]

Thanks for that Blackbird and hey I never take WINJA seriously anyway.
I DONT TAKE MOST OF YOU GUYS SERIOUSLY , LOTSA WHINEY FUCKS THAT CANT RIDE PROPERLY ON THIS SITE , I KNOW 2 RESPECTED RACERS WHO HAVE NOTHING BUT BAD THINGS TO SAY ABOUT AVONS ON THE ROAD AND ON THE TRACK

[Teflon]

As some of you may be aware, I got a puncture the other day nessesitating the replacement of my rear tyre.
It was suggested that the Avon Azaro AV46 was a good replacement for the exsisting Bridgestone BT56.


I have a lot more confidence in my Shinkos than any Avon. I've lost count on how many times i've nearly highsided with a Avon on the rear.

[FROSTY]

hey winja ---have they tried the new generation avons or the old ones ??
I've never liked the old avons but aparently the new ones are the shitz

[WINJA]

hey winja ---have they tried the new generation avons or the old ones ??
I've never liked the old avons but aparently the new ones are the shitz
I TRIED THE ONES LANCE RACED ON THAT HE HATED , THEN I SAID NEVER AGAIN TILL A FEW YEARS LATER WHEN I WAS TOLD EXACTLY WHAT YOUR SAYING , BUT THEY WERENT THE SHIT, JUST SHIT.
ON MY NS I USED AVONS ON THE BACK AND ME33 COMP K ON THE FRONT , SAME WITH THE 1000RX .
TO BE HONEST FROSTY I DONT THINK MOST PEOPLE CAN PUSH TYRES ENOUGH TO START FINDING THE FLAWS

[DEATH_INC.]

Funny things tyres,Everyone has different ideas of what works and what doesn't.
Take Me,I hate Diablo's,even though they are one of the more popular tyres out there.I love Dunlops even though 'they' say they're no good.I also often run a 200 rear and find them fine,but hate the 180's on a 6" rim even though that's supposed to be 'the shizzle'.
I've run a few mismatched pairs,with no real ill effects.I've run Avon av49/50's and loved 'em while new,though after the front got a bit old it lost it's edge.the rear had long gone though.
My favorite tyre is the 218 dunlop,though the rear wore out way too fast.
I'm currently running a 218 front and a 220 rear,great combo. :drinkup:

[WINJA]

Funny things tyres,Everyone has different ideas of what works and what doesn't.
Take Me,I hate Diablo's,even though they are one of the more popular tyres out there.I love Dunlops even though 'they' say they're no good.I also often run a 200 rear and find them fine,but hate the 180's on a 6" rim even though that's supposed to be 'the shizzle'.
I've run a few mismatched pairs,with no real ill effects.I've run Avon av49/50's and loved 'em while new,though after the front got a bit old it lost it's edge.the rear had long gone though.
My favorite tyre is the 218 dunlop,though the rear wore out way too fast.
I'm currently running a 218 front and a 220 rear,great combo. :drinkup:
I HATE DIABLOS AS WELL , I DONT KNOW WHY PEOPLE RAVE ABOUT THEM ,IM HAPPY WITH A 190 ON A 5 1/2" RIM AND 180 ON A 6" RIM. I USED TO TAKE THE STANDARD BT56S FROM THE HAYABUSAS PUT THEM ON MY ZX9 AND STILL GO FAST EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE FLATSPOTTED IN THE MIDDLES BY THE ORIGINAL OWNERS , BUT THOSE FARKIN AVONS I DIDNT LIKE ONE BIT

[DEATH_INC.]

What avon's winja? The 49/50 are a massive step forward from the old 39/40's,you wouldn't think they were the same company....

[Big Dave]

My favorite tyre is the 218 dunlop,though the rear wore out way too fast.
I'm currently running a 218 front and a 220 rear,great combo. :drinkup:

yeah - I like them too - But I rooted a 218 on the back of the Trophy in one 2-up pass through Wioeka Gorge. Bit of humour doing it but.

The Avons do work well on the heavy bike.

I'm going to test the new Shinkos next. The specifications for the price are very attractive. $334 for the pair - I volunteered to give them a work out. Z rated, I'm keen - I'll post know how they go when the Avons have had the biscuit.

[WINJA]

What avon's winja? The 49/50 are a massive step forward from the old 39/40's,you wouldn't think they were the same company....
REALLY CANT REMEMBER WHAT MODELS #S WERE .
I KNOW COMPANYS CAN GET BETTER , BUT THEY CAN ALSO GET WORSE , LIKE DUNLOP , REMEMBER THE ORIGINAL D207GP THE ENGLISH ONES , I DONT THINK DUNLOP EVER MADE A TYRE THAT GOOD AGAIN , I HAD A LOT OF TROUBLE SETTING UP THE 207GP AT THE TRACK , BUT AS FOR A GREAT ALLROUND STREET THRASH TYRE YOU CANT BEAT IT REALLY GOOD ON WET AND DAMP ROADS , THEN THEY SHIFTED PRODUCTION TO JAPAN AND BRAZIL AND IT WERENT THE SAME AGAIN. AT LEAST WE KNOW THE BRITS HAVE THE SKILLS TO MAKE A GOOD TYRE IF THEY HAVE TOO

[WINJA]

yeah - I like them too - But I rooted a 218 on the back of the Trophy in one 2-up pass through Wioeka Gorge. Bit of humour doing it but.

The Avons do work well on the heavy bike.

I'm going to test the new Shinkos next. The specifications for the price are very attractive. $334 for the pair - I volunteered to give them a work out. Z rated, I'm keen - I'll post know how they go when the Avons have had the biscuit.
I SAW A SHINKO DELAMINATE IN FRONT OF ME GOING THRU CASTROL AT PUKE AND IT WAS ON A 600 NOT EXACTLY A TIRE SHREDDING BIKE , AND HE WAS SLOW AS I WAS LAPPING HIM, IM NOT SAYING ALL SHINKOS ARE CRAP I THINK THEYVE LEARNT SOME LESSONS SINCE THEN

[Big Dave]

REALLY CANT REMEMBER WHAT MODELS #S WERE .
I KNOW COMPANYS CAN GET BETTER , BUT THEY CAN ALSO GET WORSE

In the 70's when you got a new jap bike with Bridgestones on it - the first thing to do was a burnout so you could put Pirellis on it. 10 years later it was just the opposite.

The 'press' say good things about the vipers.

And - were you spotted with Lance on sunday? - I was going to come out with the hippie but couldn't be arsed in the weather - I coulda hassled you about that crap roof.

[Macktheknife]

Just as an aside, you could also try some slime in your tires. Self seals up to 1/8 puncture. Can also be used in high speed situations, make sure you get the right product.

[Sensei]

Have tryed all tyres over the years as with most of the Core riders on here would have . Don't bother say to much about these things any more when asked for my advise on which is best . I just ride with what keeps me on the road at my pace & leave it at that . As pointed out most will never get to 3/4 's of the Tyres limit . If your happy & feel safe with what ya have then stick to them . :niceone:

[WINJA]

In the 70's when you got a new jap bike with Bridgestones on it - the first thing to do was a burnout so you could put Pirellis on it. 10 years later it was just the opposite.

The 'press' say good things about the vipers.

And - were you spotted with Lance on sunday? - I was going to come out with the hippie but couldn't be arsed in the weather - I coulda hassled you about that crap roof.
I WASNT THERE , I WAS GETTING MY FLAT READY FOR RENTING OUT ,AT THIS RATE I WONT GET TO RIDE FOR A YEAR , I ONLY CHASE MY CHICKENS WITH THE MAGIC.
DAVE IVE GOT THE FUNNIEST STORY THAT HAPPENED TO LANCE WHEN I WAS THERE , I TOOK PHOTOS AND I REALLY WANT TO SAY SOMETHING BUT LANCE WILL NEVER TALK TO ME AGAIN AND HE HOLDS THE MEANEST GRUDGES.
FUCK ITS JUST KILLIN ME , NICKO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED AND SO DOES JOHN FALLWELL

[Big Dave]

I WASNT THERE , I WAS GETTING MY FLAT READY FOR RENTING OUT ,AT THIS RATE I WONT GET TO RIDE FOR A YEAR , I ONLY CHASE MY CHICKENS WITH THE MAGIC.
DAVE IVE GOT THE FUNNIEST STORY THAT HAPPENED TO LANCE WHEN I WAS THERE , I TOOK PHOTOS AND I REALLY WANT TO SAY SOMETHING BUT LANCE WILL NEVER TALK TO ME AGAIN AND HE HOLDS THE MEANEST GRUDGES.
FUCK ITS JUST KILLIN ME , NICKO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED AND SO DOES JOHN FALLWELL


The way Lance talks about the family business I thought he would be unembarrass-able. The hippie pitted for him on sunday. Maybe he knows - he'll be round here shortly.

[WINJA]

The way Lance talks about the family business I thought he would be unembarrass-able. The hippie pitted for him on sunday. Maybe he knows - he'll be round here shortly.
KNOWN HIM SINCE 88 OR SOMETHING SO I KNOW LOTS , HES BEEN ON TV FOR IT LAST YEAR

[Big Dave]

HES BEEN ON TV FOR IT LAST YEAR

yeah - saw it.

[Lou Girardin]

yeah - I like them too - But I rooted a 218 on the back of the Trophy in one 2-up pass through Wioeka Gorge. Bit of humour doing it but.

The Avons do work well on the heavy bike.

I'm going to test the new Shinkos next. The specifications for the price are very attractive. $334 for the pair - I volunteered to give them a work out. Z rated, I'm keen - I'll post know how they go when the Avons have had the biscuit.

Don't trust them on raised tar or white lines, they're not as grippy as the Euro stuff.

[Lou Girardin]

As pointed out most will never get to 3/4 's of the Tyres limit . If your happy & feel safe with what ya have then stick to them . :niceone:

Dead bloody right, most people 'over-tyre' their bike because brand X is supposed to be the dogs nuts. Your average quickish rider would be better off on sport-tourers.

[Blackbird]

Dead bloody right, most people 'over-tyre' their bike because brand X is supposed to be the dogs nuts. Your average quickish rider would be better off on sport-tourers.

Totally agree except for the occasions when you really need traction, e.g, when you overcook it in a corner, it's a bit slippery due to it being damp, avoiding an unforeseen hazard etc. Most of the time, I only ride at 60-70% because I want to live to a ripe old age but it's nice to know that when it's really needed, your tyres won't let you down.

In my opinion, these are the times when you REALLY need good tyres, not when you're playing boy racers.

[vifferman]

Dead bloody right, most people 'over-tyre' their bike because brand X is supposed to be the dogs nuts. Your average quickish rider would be better off on sport-tourers.
True. You also have this silly phenomenon related to ego, where to many road riders run their tyres at race pressures (or run race take-offs) because they think they're Rossi. :weird:

One thing you've overlooked, Lou, and that is feel and confidence.
I had Shinkos on my VFR750, and they never really misbehaved, but I never felt completely comfortable on them, due to the way they felt.
Same with the earlier Azaros (AV35/36?) - better, but not great.
The AV49/46 combo on the FahrtSturm was good.

But (however) I do agree that good ST tyres are probably good enough for most things, better value for money than the stickiest sports rubber for road riding, and absolutely streets ahead of the best tyres you could buy only a few years ago.

Heh... I was reading this morning about a guy who's switched to car tyres on the rear of his Valkyrie. He gets HEAPS more mileage, they're more reliable (fewer punctures and less delamination etc.), and the only handling quirks are he has to counter-steer all the way through corners, and they tramline / bump-steer more than bike tyres.

[FROSTY]

IMHO--bike tyres are a bit like airline pilots.Most of the time theyre just cruising along having a pretty relaxing time-then for about 30 seconds in a day they earn all that money you paid for em.
The other thing to concider is there isnt any one stop shop situation for tyres.
A guy who goes out and regularly does 20km of motorway before a really good country thrash on his -um-say gixxer750 has different tyre needs to the bloke that commutes to work on his XJ900 -The gixxer guy needs the tyres to get sticky but a slow heat cycle is fine.
The xj guy doesn't need as much grip--but he does need the tyres to start working propperly from the moment he leaves the gate.