hi octane unleaded

[dawnrazor]

pulled into a BP station the other day, I was running on fumes so really had no choice. Went to grab the 96 oct unleaded only to be greeted by something called BP ultimate 98 octane, and a miserable 91 octane option. Now I've been advised to run the higher octane stuff so the 91 was out but the 98 was nearly 8cents more a litre. As I said I was on fumes, so filled up with the 98, and can't particularly complain (I mean its not rocket fuel is it), but was a bit pissed that it cost so much more then the caltex 96, which was doing me okay up to that point.

Was wondering what people thought about all that, does it matter, why can't you get 95/6 at BP anymore and isn't it great that now it costs over $20 to fill my tank I can get flybys, bonus - i'm saving up for a toaster!

[Sniper]

Doesn't matter mate. BP Ultimate as its called has been out for a while now. Does the same job.

[SlowHand]

I think it's only 97.5 or something. You could always do Gull - 96 thats actually 97. but still 96 price. I used to always detoured in my car to go to Gull. i think their 91 is 92 as well. w00t

[vifferman]

You can still get 96 at BP. "Selected" servos have the 98, the rest have the other crap.

BTW - all the Big4OilRobberBarons are to phase out 96 in favour of "New! Improved!!" 95, to "keep NZ in step with the rest of the world".
More like: "We're lowering the octane rating by one point because the rampant profits we've been making are getting boring so we need a new way to do so."

[Motu]

Yeah,it's only a few that do 98 - if you have a vehicle that only runs on 98 you keep getting pissed off only finding stations that have 96.

[kerryg]

You can still get 96 at BP. "Selected" servos have the 98, the rest have the other crap.

BTW - all the Big4OilRobberBarons are to phase out 96 in favour of "New! Improved!!" 95, to "keep NZ in step with the rest of the world".
More like: "We're lowering the octane rating by one point because the rampant profits we've been making are getting boring so we need a new way to do so."


Something in the Harold today about cleaner diesel and less benzene in our gas

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=%1E%FB%F8%C5%25%B1%B6D

[TonyB]

Another fuel thread! Yay! From the many other fuel threads I now know that 96 is just 91 with some additives. I know from talking to mechanics that 96 is a dirty fuel- ie, doesn't burn clean and leaves crud (highly scientific word that us laymen can not possibly understand) behind. 98 on the other hand is a higher grade fuel- not just in terms of octane rating, but additives etc too.

Yesterday I thought I'd be a sucker and try some 98 in the FZR. I normally run 91. It has an idle to 3k miss that I STILL haven't bothered to sort out :whistle: and dyno runs show it's a tad lean there, so I thought the extra octane might help. It did. The thing actually idled smoothly, instead stuttering away like it normally does. It still stuttered a bit under load, but not as badly as it had been before the good stuff went in. The next step will be to throw some race fuel in when the tanks empty and see if it's better again. Ahhhhh, I lurve the smell of race gas! :love:

[vifferman]

Something in the Harold today about cleaner diesel and less benzene in our gas

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=%1E%FB%F8%C5%25%B1%B6D
What wonderful, wonderful people the Big4OilRobberBarons are!
I remember back in 1996 or whenever leaded petrol was done away with in favour of the more polluting, highly carcinogenic, rubber-eating shit we now enjoy, the Big4OilRobberBarons wailed, gnashed their collective teeth and bitched about how upgrading the oil 'refine'ry to produce fuel of a quality enjoyed in Urp was "way too expensive" and would cost "at least 100 million dollars" and "could we please just use some of the crap that's part of the refining process to artificially boost the octane, instead?" and the Gummint said, "yeah, orright."
So after what - 9 years of enjoying the profits of their $100millllions sitting in the bank, and our crapulent fleet of used Jap imports spewing out sulphur-rich fumes and carcinogenic petroleum distillates, they'
re now patting themselves on the bac and sayin how wonderful theay are, and how they're not going to pass the costs on to the consumers? Yeah, right.
[insert rude name here]

[The Stranger]

The Blackbird is definately cheaper to run on 98 as it gets better MPG (yes I am old) than it gets on 91.
It runs sweeter and is more powerful too.

I haven't conducted a test on the Yamaha specifically but it also would appear to get better milage on 98 by a reasonable margin.

Initial results on the SS would indicate that it is getting better milage on the higher octain fuel also, though on the early results it may not be enough to compensate for the extra cost.

Frankly I wouldn't use the expensive power-sapping 91 stuff.

[TonyB]

The Blackbird is definately cheaper to run on 98 as it gets better MPG (yes I am old) than it gets on 91.
It runs sweeter and is more powerful too.

I haven't conducted a test on the Yamaha specifically but it also would appear to get better milage on 98 by a reasonable margin.

Initial results on the SS would indicate that it is getting better milage on the higher octain fuel also, though on initial results may not be enough to compensate for the extra cost.

Frankly I wouldn't use the expensive power-sapping 91 stuff.
You have too many bikes. Good on ya!

[gamgee]

whats the highest octane i should be using on my bike, i'm using 91 at the moment, is there any point trying higher, will it do any damage?

[kerryg]

What wonderful, wonderful people the Big4OilRobberBarons are!
I remember back in 1996 or whenever leaded petrol was done away with in favour of the more polluting, highly carcinogenic, rubber-eating shit we now enjoy, the Big4OilRobberBarons wailed, gnashed their collective teeth and bitched about how upgrading the oil 'refine'ry to produce fuel of a quality enjoyed in Urp was "way too expensive" and would cost "at least 100 million dollars" and "could we please just use some of the crap that's part of the refining process to artificially boost the octane, instead?" and the Gummint said, "yeah, orright."
So after what - 9 years of enjoying the profits of their $100millllions sitting in the bank, and our crapulent fleet of used Jap imports spewing out sulphur-rich fumes and carcinogenic petroleum distillates, they'
re now patting themselves on the bac and sayin how wonderful theay are, and how they're not going to pass the costs on to the consumers? Yeah, right.
[insert rude name here]


Faaarrrk, Vifferman !!!!....don't hold back! :laugh:

But yeah...you're not wrong

[vifferman]

Faaarrrk, Vifferman !!!!....don't hold back! :laugh:

But yeah...you're not wrong
Ooops.... sorry.
I keep forgetting to not be a whingey old bastid...
BTW - that balck VFR you scraped off the floor at the auction wouldn't run on 95/96 at all, at all. Probably the teeny-tiny spokploogs it used.

[Postie]

I think it's only 97.5 or something. You could always do Gull - 96 thats actually 97. but still 96 price. I used to always detoured in my car to go to Gull. i think their 91 is 92 as well. w00t
i just had a litre of 98 ultimate fuel tested at IPL in Marsden Point, it came back rated as 98.7 octane. I dunno if it will always be that highly rated but it won't fluctuate to much

[Lou Girardin]

There's me thinking that nearly all Jap engines are designed to run on 91 to suit theUS market.
What do your owners manuals say?

[bugjuice]

erm.... it's 95 now, not 96.. and it's still the same price.

I do hate it tho, when you just want to top up with 95/96 cos you need to get round town instead of a weekend blast, and the only option is 98 at the inflated price.. Kinda got you by the short n curlies. Sometimes, I've ridden/driven onto the next one when I've seen 98 at 5¢ more than 96

[The Stranger]

Blackbird = 91 or higher unleaded
Virago = 91 or higher unleaded and notes that if pinging occurs use another brand or a higher octane.
The SS is similar.

[sarg]

how good is your fuel consumption on 98 with the blackbird Noel compared to 91 Should I change up?

[2_SL0]

There is a reduction in the benzene in our fuel. This has lead to the introduction of 95 octane fuel.

[The Stranger]

how good is your fuel consumption on 98 with the blackbird Noel compared to 91 Should I change up?

I have got actual figures at work but with a K&N and running on 98 the fuel economy went from about 37 mpg to about 45 mpg and you get a significant improvement in low end torque to boot.

Open road the improvement is only from 50 before to 53 mpg now. I suspect that the ram air was pretty efficient at moving the air past the old filter when at speed.

I also note that I get better economy at higher speeds.
Govt was trying to say that you use an additional 13% to travel at 110kph instead of 100.
I get better economy at 130 than at 100.

[Lou Girardin]

I have got actual figures at work but with a K&N and running on 98 the fuel economy went from about 37 mpg to about 45 mpg and you get a significant improvement in low end torque to boot.

Open road the improvement is only from 50 before to 53 mpg now. I suspect that the ram air was pretty efficient at moving the air past the old filter when at speed.

I also note that I get better economy at higher speeds.
Govt was trying to say that you use an additional 13% to travel at 110kph instead of 100.
I get better economy at 130 than at 100.

It seems that the improvement has more to do with the K&N.

[The Stranger]

It seems that the improvement has more to do with the K&N.

Definately the K&N makes the biggest difference. Without a doubt.

I have done 10,000km in the last 3 months so am able to do many tests quite quickly. Averaging these tests out I am getting just under 46 mpg on 98 and on 91 was getting just under 42 so yeah the biggest difference is the K&N but the 98 also makes a difference.

Sure the 98 is not going to save you thousands but it is cheaper and the bike is noticably better to ride so why not use it?

[Avignon]

When I picked up my Hornet, the Honda Guys said just to use 91 as the other fuels could leave carbon deposits on the injectors. Looking at this thread I now seem to think they were refering to the 96 stuff with the addatives and shit so I'm gonna try the 98. I'll put some in this arvo and let you know how it goes.

[vifferman]

When I picked up my Hornet, the Honda Guys said just to use 91 as the other fuels could leave carbon deposits on the injectors. Looking at this thread I now seem to think they were refering to the 96 stuff with the addatives and shit so I'm gonna try the 98. I'll put some in this arvo and let you know how it goes.
True.
Not just that, but the very small spockploogs used tend to soot up very quickly (on my VFR750 they took maybe less than 15km).

[Lou Girardin]

I can't pick any difference between 91 and 98 in the Bandit. But there was a huge difference in a modded car I had, somewhere around 20 hp. The 98 let me use much more ign advance.

[pyrocam]

I run BP ultimate because the handle is the coolest

[dawnrazor]

Okay folks I decided to do some looking about regarding octane ratings etc after some of the points brought up yesterday, found an article in BIKE magazine, which sums it up nicely
The rest of this post will quote from that.

“Before the spark plug, sparks, the mix of air and fuel is compressed by the piston’s compression stroke. Bikes run a higher compression then cars from 10:1 to 13:1 (squashing the gas into one tenth of its volume)
The problem with higher compression ratios is that Heptane (one of the hydrocarbons found in petrol) doesn’t react well when it’s squashed and can ignite spontaneously under compression. This is why tuned engines run hi-octane fuel.

The types of unleaded at the pumps will be rated 91, 95, 96, 97, 98 RON (Reasearch Octane Number), a measure of how resistant the fuel is to igniting under compression.
So 95 RON has the same resistance to compression as a mix of 95% octane and 5% heptane. Fuels of more then 100 RON are made by adding chemicals that are more resistant then octane.

Octane alone will not increase power. It only allows the potential for an engine to run a high compression ratio - and that’s what will increase power.Run a high compression engine on low octane fuel and detonation will occcur - and that can destroy a motor.

Detonantion - also known as knock -occurs after the plug has sparked. The spark starts a flame in the middle of the cylinder, which should spread out to the edges with a single flame front. But if the gas at the edges of the cylinder ignites (due to high temp or pressure) before the flame meets them, it causes multiple flame fronts in the cylinder. When these collide they create a sharp rise in heat and pressure. Occasional slight detonation is okay, but constant severe detonation will wreck an engine.

So what should you fill up with? Simple. Assuming you haven’t changed your compression ratio, run your bike on what the manual tells you to. In the case of most road bikes, thats standard 95RON. Extra octane won’t increase power - it really is just a waste of money. If the book says run it on hi - octane then stick rigidly, unless you have a knock sensor like on some BMW’s which can adjust fueling when knock is detected. It is also safe to mix regular and super, too.”

Okay thats the end of the lesson, a couple of things should be noted, you can’t get 91RON in europe anymore so 95RON is regular and 97/98 super. So if the largest petrol users on the road are cars, and car engines typically run at low compression ratios, meaning they work just fine on 91 RON, then why does 98RON exist at all, if for the most part it is a waste of money if used in the average car and average bike for that matter. Some how I can’t believe that the petrol companies are providing a product for the minority of people running high compression vehicles that need 98RON fuel. Looking at the advertising for BP ultimate, it makes out its great for your engine etc and clean, fails to mention that its no better then regular, smell a conspiracy.

So until 91RON is fazed out here, don’t be fooled 91 rules!

[Jonty]

There's me thinking that nearly all Jap engines are designed to run on 91 to suit theUS market.
What do your owners manuals say?

Mine just says anything above 88 and something like anything above 89 for Mexico (or something strange). So really there is no answer to the 91 vs 98 debate in CBR owners manuals. I would like a definitive anser but I imagine it will be a try and see. For the extra price I am stayin with 91 :headbang:

[vifferman]

Mine just says anything above 88 and something like anything above 89 for Mexico (or something strange). So really there is no answer to the 91 vs 98 debate in CBR owners manuals. I would like a definitive anser but I imagine it will be a try and see. For the extra price I am stayin with 91 :headbang:
Is the manual Murkn, because their octane ratings are different, with 87 there being equivalent to 91 here. So "above 88" may well mean summat loik "above 91".

[Jonty]

Is the manual Murkn, because their octane ratings are different, with 87 there being equivalent to 91 here. So "above 88" may well mean summat loik "above 91".

Good question - the manual is set up for different parts of the world (Mexico being one) and I am pretty sure it was above 88 for Australia. I will check tonight and post my findings. Cheers :spudwave:

[Lou Girardin]

Don't confuse RON and MON octane ratings. The US runs MON/RON combination and their 87 octane is equivalent to our 91. So US spec bikes should run 91 or better.

[TonyB]

I've never owned a bike that came with a manual :crybaby:

[avgas]

lifes too short to run 91 in a bike.
the only thing i ever ran on 91 (bike wise) was the RG.....and thats cos i got 8-10ks/L.
have tried to run various bikes on 91, always with dissappoiting results.
On the GB - it refused to run on anything lower then 96......mild cam would do wild things (in a bad sense) to my ass. The knock was horrible.
Sapphire turns into a bitch, and doesnt put out if i put 91 in her.

[dawnrazor]

Don't confuse RON and MON octane ratings. The US runs MON/RON combination and their 87 octane is equivalent to our 91. So US spec bikes should run 91 or better.

Not confusion, just quoting from the article - whats MON stand for

[Lou Girardin]

Not confusion, just quoting from the article - whats MON stand for

MON - Motor Octane Number
RON - Research Octane Number

[dawnrazor]

MON - Motor Octane Number
RON - Research Octane Number

So NZ fuel is rated RON, correct or not

[Korumba]

So you don’t need any "Carb and or Timing tuning" while pissing around with different octanes ?????

[speights_bud]

As i understand it (As an Ex-Bp employee) it was only the CORO (company owned retail orgaisation. or something) stations that were upgrading to the 98 Ultimate. Pretty much the stations owned by Bp oil Nz, and not the privatly run shops. Although i don't see why they couldn't supply the 98 Ultimate either.

We were told to promote the 98 as a 'better cleaner burning fuel, designed to make your car go further per litre and help it run more smoothly. An upgrade of 96 which it is perfectly fine to mix with'.
If custromers didn't like that I'd always point them towards Mobil across the road which provided better service anyway. (only 2 fill stations compared to our 8)

[Motu]

I met him on a MONday and my heart stood still
Da do RON RON RON, da do RON RON

[John]

I met him on a MONday and my heart stood still
Da do RON RON RON, da do RON RON
YEA AND HE MADE ME A VEGEMITE SANDWICH.
HE SAID HE CAME FROM THE LAND DOWN UNDER...

[345]

tried running my 02 tt600 on 98, seemed to go better with half 98 half 96. with a full tank of 98, it was hard to start. next tank i filled up with shell 96, going much better now, & starts straight away again. I've run the bike on 96 for 20,000k's so far, still on the same plugs...go figure.

[Jamiepo]

Good question - the manual is set up for different parts of the world (Mexico being one) and I am pretty sure it was above 88 for Australia. I will check tonight and post my findings. Cheers :spudwave:


Another thing to remember for aussie is that they run like 15%-20% alcohol in thier gas which (i think) means that there is less carbon build up. Mot 100% sure of that but a few people have told me that now.

[Ixion]

..
Okay thats the end of the lesson, a couple of things should be noted, you can’t get 91RON in europe anymore so 95RON is regular and 97/98 super. So if the largest petrol users on the road are cars, and car engines typically run at low compression ratios, meaning they work just fine on 91 RON, then why does 98RON exist at all, if for the most part it is a waste of money if used in the average car and average bike for that matter. Some how I can’t believe that the petrol companies are providing a product for the minority of people running high compression vehicles that need 98RON fuel. Looking at the advertising for BP ultimate, it makes out its great for your engine etc and clean, fails to mention that its no better then regular, smell a conspiracy.

So until 91RON is fazed out here, don’t be fooled 91 rules!


Because the Yuroppeans, bless their little petrol soaked socks, make quite a few cars, of which they are rather proud, which definately do require high octane.

The Alfatoy VERY explicitly says to use no less than 95 RON, with a recommendation of 100 RON. The Alfaisti would probably bring down the Eytalian government (well, at least reduce its term from three days to one) if the petrol companies were to decline to supply a petrol suitable for the Alfa, and Ferrari and Maserati and all the other beautiful , contrary beasts.

[parsley]

All this talk of 91, 95, 96 and 98 - when are they going to bring out some up to date fuels? How about an 05? Or maybe a vintage - I think 72 was pretty good. :doobey:

[Lou Girardin]

Another thing to remember for aussie is that they run like 15%-20% alcohol in thier gas which (i think) means that there is less carbon build up. Mot 100% sure of that but a few people have told me that now.

I doubt if it's more than 5%.

[Lou Girardin]

All this talk of 91, 95, 96 and 98 - when are they going to bring out some up to date fuels? How about an 05? Or maybe a vintage - I think 72 was pretty good. :doobey:

The '73 was a fine year, but the vine yield was very small so sales were restricted on weekends. But it was a precocious little number with a distinctive nose.

[Brian d marge]

Bed time reading
enjoy

Stephen

[Sniper]

Thanks Stephen

[Sniper]

I've never owned a bike that came with a manual :crybaby:

Bikes come with manuals?

[Mental Trousers]

These manual things are only theoretical right?

[vifferman]

Because the Yuroppeans, bless their little petrol soaked socks, make quite a few cars, of which they are rather proud, which definately do require high octane.

The Alfatoy VERY explicitly says to use no less than 95 RON, with a recommendation of 100 RON. The Alfaisti would probably bring down the Eytalian government (well, at least reduce its term from three days to one) if the petrol companies were to decline to supply a petrol suitable for the Alfa, and Ferrari and Maserati and all the other beautiful , contrary beasts.
And the not-so-beautiful, contrary beasts, like the Fart Punto, which was ugly till I threw the plasticky hubcaps in the bin and put Croma alloys on.
And the other contrary Urpeen cars, like our two Peugeots. I'm sure the 306 runs on high octane only, but it must've been on a sticker in the filler, which is no longer there since they changed the whole filler thing (for free) so the car didn't explode into flames. Or to stop people stealing fumes. Or summat. (They didn't say why they recalled it).
And the 205 GTi definitely hates lesser distillates, specifying in the workshop Manuel that top shelf stuff must be imbibed.
Number 2 Son ignored that, so I had to change the plugs and put some cough mixture in the tank.
It's easy, really: we all just need to listen to SWMBO, who recently proclaimed that "All our vehicles (4) are to be run on Ultimate and nothing else."
"Errr.... I had to put Gull 96 in it yesterday, Dear, as there were no purveyors of Ultimate adjacent to any of my expeditions. But it's REEEEAAAALLLY good stuff. Honest..."

[The Stranger]

Bloody brilliant. Thank you.

[Bonez]

Octane alone will not increase power. It only allows the potential for an engine to run a high compression ratio - and that’s what will increase power.Run a high compression engine on low octane fuel and detonation will occcur - and that can destroy a motor. It's been report that this 98 octane, on TV even, is causing excesive nocking and to adjust your ignition timing accordingly. Why?

And yeah and I agree 91 does the trickalright and has saved quite a substantial amount over the years :)

[vifferman]

It's been report that this 98 octane, on TV even, is causing excesive nocking and to adjust your ignition timing accordingly. Why?
That's highly unlikely. The point of higher-octane petrol is to minimise knocking in engines that run at high compression ratios and/or advanced ignition timing.
Perhaps it's more likely that people have been sucked in by the "Cleaner! Faster! Bigger! Wetter! More Poweful! Greener! Expensiver!" campaign, and have been putting it in their low-compression, spark-retarded shitboxes expecting 1700bhp, and instead the aforementioned low-compression, spark-retarded poor excuses for engines are having trouble getting the fuel mix to ignite.
It certainly does take more to light up 98 in cold weather on the VifFerraRi than in warm weather, but conversely it knocks less when the engine's running at 106 degrees and the fuel level in the tank's low and the fuel pump is running hot and turning the warm petrol into fumes.

[Bonez]

That's highly unlikely. The point of higher-octane petrol is to minimise knocking in engines that run at high compression ratios and/or advanced ignition timing.
Perhaps it's more likely that people have been sucked in by the "Cleaner! Faster! Bigger! Wetter! More Poweful! Greener! Expensiver!" campaign, and have been putting it in their low-compression, spark-retarded shitboxes expecting 1700bhp, and instead the aforementioned low-compression, spark-retarded poor excuses for engines are having trouble getting the fuel mix to ignite.
It certainly does take more to light up 98 in cold weather on the VifFerraRi than in warm weather, but conversely it knocks less when the engine's running at 106 degrees and the fuel level in the tank's low and the fuel pump is running hot and turning the warm petrol into fumes.IT WAS ON TV!!!!!!!!! With some specialish mechanic stating the ingintion timing needed changing. Can remember a conversation with a mate about it saying it was bunk as you say. Honest Indian.

[The Stranger]

I accept that it was on TV, but don't believe everything you see in the media. They are generally a pack of F'wits.

Ok I know it was a while ago, and maybe I should let it go, but with the Y2K "problem" they quoted a person on the front page of the herald spouting bullshit about computers and his qualification was (and I quote) "a frequent internet user"

Then in the next breath when the world didn't in fact end the media are slamming all the hype.

Generally the more you advance (fire the spark plug before the piston reaches top dead centre) the ignition timing the more power you will pull out of an engine. UP TO A POINT!

In theory running 98 could allow you to run some additional advance, but it would not be necessary to.

[skidMark]

why buy a toaster you can get a pie maker for 225 points

or a george foreman grill for 550 points :devil2: :done: