I think I made the wrong decision last night

[Old Steve]

I'm posting this so our newer riders, and maybe some of our older riders, will see the importance of a couple of safety actions.

Last night, about 6.00 pm, I was within a kilometre of home. I came to a right hand curve, maybe 40 km/hr or so, with a street off to the left right on the apex of the corner. It was well lit, there's a dairy and a takeaway on the corner. A car was coming from the opposite direction but it came through the corner before I entered it. There was a car stopped at the stop sign on the side street to the left.

Coming up to the corner I eased off the throttle, checked the car on the side street and kept an eye on it. There are corrugations on the corner out by the centre line so I was taking the curve in the middle of the lane. And bloody Nora, the car's front wheels started turning, it came out from the side street and I was already leaning for the right hand curve. I emergency braked, front and foot brake, got it absolutely right but that stood the bike upright and while I was stopping the bike I was now steering at a tangent to the curve, taking me closer to the car.

Luckily the driver saw me and braked too. I came to a halt with the car stopped about 600 mm to the left of my left handlebar. That's when I realised that my front wheel was overlapping the front of the car by about 1/4 of the front wheel diameter. If the car hadn't stopped I'd have hit it in the last foot or so of my braking. I sat there with my hand welded to the brake lever, and tasted bile in my mouth. That was close. The car backed out of the intersection and I clicked the bike into first gear and headed off.

So what did I learn?

1. DON'T RELAX! I was within a km of home, I know the road well, cars have always stopped on the side road before, and I watched the car. But there was more I could have done.

2. ALWAYS HAVE A PLAN B, a 'what if?" plan. While I was watching the car on the side street, I hadn't done my 'what if?' planning. I was almost home this was the last corner before the roundabout at our street and our driveway.

3. I made the wrong decision when I was forced to take avoiding action without my Plan B. If the car hadn't braked, by braking my bike would have hit the car wheel arch or driver's door, albeit in the last of its braking but enough so the forks would have folded and the bike would have been a write off. I would have come off at a somewhat slower speed, but I would have come off and maybe suffered some injury. I should have opened the throttle and countersteered to tighten up my path through the corner, the car wasn't moving very fast. I had space in my lane on my right, I even had space on the other side of the road as the car coming from the other direction had passed and there was nothing else coming. I would have pulled across in front of the car, steered back onto my side of the road, and disappeared down the road.

So I want to strongly emphasise those two points. Eternal vigilance, no matter if you're close to home, don't relax. And have your 'what if? plan in your mind for every moment you're on your bike.

I was lucky, I came so close to hitting the car if it continued into the intersection and having someone leaning over me and saying those fateful words, "Sorry Mate, I didn't see you."

Take care out there, don't relax and always have your Plan B.

[old slider]

I'm posting this so our newer riders, and maybe some of our older riders, will see the importance of a couple of safety actions.

Last night, about 6.00 pm, I was within a kilometre of home. I came to a right hand curve, maybe 40 km/hr or so, with a street off to the left right on the apex of the corner. It was well lit, there's a dairy and a takeaway on the corner. A car was coming from the opposite direction but it came through the corner before I entered it. There was a car stopped at the stop sign on the side street to the left.

Coming up to the corner I eased off the throttle, checked the car on the side street and kept an eye on it. There are corrugations on the corner out by the centre line so I was taking the curve in the middle of the lane. And bloody Nora, the car's front wheels started turning, it came out from the side street and I was already leaning for the right hand curve. I emergency braked, front and foot brake, got it absolutely right but that stood the bike upright and while I was stopping the bike I was now steering at a tangent to the curve, taking me closer to the car.

Luckily the driver saw me and braked too. I came to a halt with the car stopped about 600 mm to the left of my left handlebar. That's when I realised that my front wheel was overlapping the front of the car by about 1/4 of the front wheel diameter. If the car hadn't stopped I'd have hit it in the last foot or so of my braking. I sat there with my hand welded to the brake lever, and tasted bile in my mouth. That was close. The car backed out of the intersection and I clicked the bike into first gear and headed off.

So what did I learn?

1. DON'T RELAX! I was within a km of home, I know the road well, cars have always stopped on the side road before, and I watched the car. But there was more I could have done.

2. ALWAYS HAVE A PLAN B, a 'what if?" plan. While I was watching the car on the side street, I hadn't done my 'what if?' planning. I was almost home this was the last corner before the roundabout at our street and our driveway.

3. I made the wrong decision when I was forced to take avoiding action without my Plan B. If the car hadn't braked, by braking my bike would have hit the car wheel arch or driver's door, albeit in the last of its braking but enough so the forks would have folded and the bike would have been a write off. I would have come off at a somewhat slower speed, but I would have come off and maybe suffered some injury. I should have opened the throttle and countersteered to tighten up my path through the corner, the car wasn't moving very fast. I had space in my lane on my right, I even had space on the other side of the road as the car coming from the other direction had passed and there was nothing else coming. I would have pulled across in front of the car, steered back onto my side of the road, and disappeared down the road.

So I want to strongly emphasise those two points. Eternal vigilance, no matter if you're close to home, don't relax. And have your 'what if? plan in your mind for every moment you're on your bike.

I was lucky, I came so close to hitting the car if it continued into the intersection and having someone leaning over me and saying those fateful words, "Sorry Mate, I didn't see you."

Take care out there, don't relax and always have your Plan B.


Crikey, thanks for posting that , I have just learned a bit more, certainly makes me think about the what ifs a bit more, making eye contact with other drivers is sometimes not enough either I have found.

[Maha]

A lot of accident happen close to home, drivers/riders are over familiar with their surroundings causing said road users to be less onto it than they would normally be. It is possible that the car driver lived close by also.


And sometimes, the twain will actually meet. Plan B should always be an option, not just in this situation.

[Ulsterkiwi]

good post, a reminder how even the benign situations can go to custard!

[AllanB]

Bloody Dairies. Friggen dangerous places.

[Banditbandit]

Damm ... I thought it was going to be a story about going home with some chick you met at the pub and waking up with crabs or something ...



But well done, that man .. did everything right and avoided a crash .. sometimes shit just happens ... and there's bugger all you can do about it .. this time you walked (rode) away without crashing ..

[YellowDog]

Thanks for posting. Yes, it is that last couple of KMs when we tend to go into auto-pilot.

I've had a couple of those happen in wet conditions and have had my arse saved by the ABS. Evertime I feel it kick in, I curse my poor decision making.

My 'heads up' from this is that: Pipping the horn, in a non-offensive manner and at all intersctions/roundabout, helps to alert the air-head cagers.

I now pip the horn, without having to think about it ;)

[neels]

Sounds like a lucky escape, sometimes there's not that much time to think.

I've had a similar situation when someone turned in front of me, had to decide (not even sure how that bit happened) whether to brake or go, went for the go option which turned out ok (mostly) so was probably the right call.

Always looking for an escape route, hopefully will never be in the situation where there isn't one.....

[rastuscat]

Just imagine this happening to a newish rider.

I bet the front brake would have been grabbed, and that's that. Low-side, slide into the side of the car.

Good work keeping it together.

It's one if the reasons we encourage people to practise their braking. In the event of the adverse event happening, braking needs to be familiar and confident.

Your awareness is a credit to you.

[old slider]

Thanks for posting. Yes, it is that last couple of KMs when we tend to go into auto-pilot.

I've had a couple of those happen in wet conditions and have had my arse saved by the ABS. Evertime I feel it kick in, I curse my poor decision making.

My 'heads up' from this is that: Pipping the horn, in a non-offensive manner and at all intersctions/roundabout, helps to alert the air-head cagers.

I now pip the horn, without having to think about it ;)

I have noticed a few riders flicking their lights up and down to High beam when approaching potential hazards, it may help getting noticed, similar to horn use is great, but only if they don't have their car radio blasting away.

[Gremlin]

There is an intersection close to my house where the side street comes in at an angle and it's on a reasonably steep hill. 15 odd years going past it most days and I never relax.

The key thing in my mind is timing. Don't arrive at the intersection as they are (assuming you can see enough). The shorter period of time they are at the intersection the more inclined they are to keep rolling and not check properly. Adjust your speed so you arrive later, giving you more time to brake if they pull out, or if too close, perhaps speed up (but this should really be secondary to slowing as it gives you more time to react).

You're reasonably safe if there are oncoming cars, but watch very carefully if there is a gap in the oncoming cars. Given quite a few drivers a surprise when they pull out and have a light shining through their window while I'm braking...

[AllanB]

It's one if the reasons we encourage people to practise their braking. In the event of the adverse event happening, braking needs to be familiar and confident.

The change last year from the Hornet 900 to the Ducati Streetfighter had many many differences to become used to - one of the instantly more obvious ones was the Ducatis brakes are significantly superior and come on stronger quicker - a lot stronger. A gun-ho approach to the new ride could easily have resulted in a somewhat less 'new' ride very quickly.

[old slider]

The change last year from the Hornet 900 to the Ducati Streetfighter had many many differences to become used to - one of the instantly more obvious ones was the Ducatis brakes are significantly superior and come on stronger quicker - a lot stronger. A gun-ho approach to the new ride could easily have resulted in a somewhat less 'new' ride very quickly.


I don't feel like I will have that worry if grabbing a big hand and foot full of my HDs brakes even with the twin front discs, thankfully the engine braking is ok, I just have to remember to not down shift too early.

[haydes55]

I have noticed a few riders flicking their lights up and down to High beam when approaching potential hazards, it may help getting noticed, similar to horn use is great, but only if they don't have their car radio blasting away.
DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVISE.

The only time I see people flash their lights coming up to an intersection is to signal other vehicles that you are letting them in. By flashing your lights, you're encouraging people to pull out in front of you.

Imagine lying on the side of the road with your bike wedged in a car door and the driver gets out and says "but you flashed for me to go".

[george formby]

DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVISE.

The only time I see people flash their lights coming up to an intersection is to signal other vehicles that you are letting them in. By flashing your lights, you're encouraging people to pull out in front of you.

Imagine lying on the side of the road with your bike wedged in a car door and the driver gets out and says "but you flashed for me to go".

Yup, agreed. It's very ambiguous.

And a good save OP. A close call is a win in my book. I practice braking and evasion maneuvers but still wonder if I need to, would I react correctly?
I can't figure out a way of practicing snap decisions, lol. Guess I will have to wait for my hindsight moment to find out.

[Cosmik de Bris]

DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVISE.

The only time I see people flash their lights coming up to an intersection is to signal other vehicles that you are letting them in. By flashing your lights, you're encouraging people to pull out in front of you.

Imagine lying on the side of the road with your bike wedged in a car door and the driver gets out and says "but you flashed for me to go".

Yes, I was in the habit of flashing (sounds dodgy) but I thought about the message it was sending and I agree with you, it could easily be misinterpreted.

[old slider]

DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVISE.

The only time I see people flash their lights coming up to an intersection is to signal other vehicles that you are letting them in. By flashing your lights, you're encouraging people to pull out in front of you.

Imagine lying on the side of the road with your bike wedged in a car door and the driver gets out and says "but you flashed for me to go".


Thanks for the heads up, I have not done this but have seen others. I forget that bikes have blinkers and still use hand signals.

[Ifsn8u]

Always good to share these close calls and what ifs. Every time I feel I could have done better in a situation i have a quick think on what I would do differently next time.

When I was first starting out few years back had the car in front of me turning left, there was a car from that road wanting to turn right across my path. Needless to say due to my inexperience my positioning was so that the car turning right couldn't see me behind the car turning left. The car turning right pulls out, luckily I managed to brake and stop about 30cm from his drivers door. The look on the drivers face was "Holy shit where did you come from!" Very valuable lesson learnt that day. I was paying attention so was able to stop in time. But had I been in a better position to start with the whole situation could of been avoided. I only imagine what the outcome would of been if I wasn't alert.

Learning everyday....

[russd7]

Thanks for posting. Yes, it is that last couple of KMs when we tend to go into auto-pilot.

I've had a couple of those happen in wet conditions and have had my arse saved by the ABS. Evertime I feel it kick in, I curse my poor decision making.

My 'heads up' from this is that: Pipping the horn, in a non-offensive manner and at all intersctions/roundabout, helps to alert the air-head cagers.

I now pip the horn, without having to think about it ;)

i could see that becoming real annoying if one happens to live near an intersection and every motorcyclist pipped their horn.

as the OP has said, be aware and have on out, no need to piss off the general public

[Drew]

Isn't this a 'big pat on the back' circle.

The OP had a spastic moment. End of story.

[Ifsn8u]

Isn't this a 'big pat on the back' circle.

The OP had a spastic moment. End of story.

Always good to share a spastic moment, might save some one on here, somewhere, some time.

[Moise]

The US Hurt report found that 50% of all bike accidents were within a few miles of the riders home. Everytime I'm tempted to go for it on the miniature Eau Rouge at the bottom of our street, I remember this stat and back off.

Another 25% occurred after 10 PM on Saturday nights.

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[WristTwister]

I have never had any problem with powerful brakes as if I dont want to stop too suddenly I just use one finger on the lever which reduces the sudden feel. I once demoed a Suzuki where the dealer warned me about the power of the brakes and when I returned it I said I had no problem with the brakes as they felt just like BMW brakes in how sudden they came on as I had experience riding one.

double disc front brakes should be a lot more effective at stopping you, I think you'd notice a difference between something like a Hyongsungbung 250RRR and something fitted with a premium brand dual front disc brakes.

In other words, you might be compensating for strong brakes on bikes with strong brakes, but that may not be sufficient braking on bikes with weaker braking. So therefore the reverse could be true for someone coming from a bike with weaker brakes.

[Bass]

Isn't this a 'big pat on the back' circle.

The OP had a spastic moment. End of story.

Who invited you ???

Just piss off and get ready for the Cold Kiwi - OK?

[Drew]

Who invited you ???

Just piss off and get ready for the Cold Kiwi - OK?

The toy has been tested. Bloody motor had been on the floor in my garage when Tawa got flooded a few years ago...had to swap the fucken barrels and a piston the other night. Nearly ready now though.

[Bass]

The toy has been tested. Bloody motor had been on the floor in my garage when Tawa got flooded a few years ago...had to swap the fucken barrels and a piston the other night. Nearly ready now though.

Well off topic but good shit anyway.
Pics?

[Drew]

Well off topic but good shit anyway.
Pics?

These ones are a surprise.

Not really off topic. The toy is fucken lethal, even more so now that it'll run on four.

[Drew]

Dual disks make fuck all difference untill temperature becomes a contributing factor.

Would you lot please fuck up about shit you no nothing of.

[Bass]

My reply was to another poster that said they do make a difference in terms of braking effectiveness. All brakes heat up if you didnt know so I dont know what the fuck you are on about with your ramble about temperature being a "Contributing Factor".

But he said "please".
That was really restrained and polite in this case.
Must have got a bonk this morning.

[old slider]

These ones are a surprise.

Not really off topic. The toy is fucken lethal, even more so now that it'll run on four.

Phuck, I Hope it has twin front discs that wont heat up too much. lol

[Drew]

My reply was to another poster that said they do make a difference in terms of braking effectiveness. All brakes heat up if you didnt know so I dont know what the fuck you are on about with your ramble about temperature being a "Contributing Factor".
Yes, but untill that heat is high enough that the braking is affected, a single disk will overcome the available traction or the weight of the bike every bit as well as two disks.

I will reiterate. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about, so shut your cunt mouth.

[Drew]

Phuck, I Hope it has twin front discs that wont heat up too much. lol

Non at all up front.

[george formby]

Yes, but untill that heat is high enough that the braking is affected, a single disk will overcome the available traction or the weight of the bike every bit as well as two disks.

I will reiterate. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about, so shut your cunt mouth.

I asked this question on another forum, relating to middle weight adventure bikes with twin discs and nobody replied. I guess more for dissipating heat and keeping braking consistent rather than outright effectiveness. I've boiled the fluid on a single disc a couple of times. Eek!
And yeah, not hard to lock the front with just a single disc, got that t shirt, too. Probably on the same day I boiled it.:laugh:

[eldog]

Wonder if dual front discs on a large cruiser are beneficial. But them HDs aren't made for stoppn. Just drop the old boots down to de road and use dem engine brakes.

Exercise vigilance when approaching others on de road

[scumdog]

Wonder if dual front discs on a large cruiser are beneficial. But them HDs aren't made for stoppn. Just drop the old boots down to de road and use dem engine brakes.

Exercise vigilance when approaching others on de road

I locked up the front wheel on my H-D Dynaglide T-Sport once, those behind me said they could see the smoke coming from the tyre.
Oh, and it had a twin disc front.:msn-wink:

[Big Dog]

What you are wanking on about has nothing to do with the original discussion which was to do with different bikes having more powerful brakes than others and how a beginner rider could come to grief with trying to stop a bike with very powerful brakes. The issue you have brought up about heating up of brakes is a completly different topic for some reason you have got off on. Start a different thread if you want to discuss the stopping power of different brakes under different temperatures.
Why?
You didn't start a new thread to discuss different stopping powers or show off your skills with stronger than standard brakes when the original thread was someone questioning the choice to even use the brakes when other choices would have been safer and more efficient.

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

[Drew]

What you are wanking on about has nothing to do with the original discussion which was to do with different bikes having more powerful brakes than others and how a beginner rider could come to grief with trying to stop a bike with very powerful brakes. The issue you have brought up about heating up of brakes is a completly different topic for some reason you have got off on. Start a different thread if you want to discuss the stopping power of different brakes under different temperatures.
I pointed out that you didn't understand brakes, you should have looked into what I said and understood them before trying to make me look the ignorant one.

I was trying to contribute to the thread and it's original intent. Two ways even. The number of disks makes nowt difference unless you are on the track seriously riding like a cunt on the road..unless of course there's something wrong with them or the single disk is on a Buell. So don't pay that any attention. Also and more subtly, trying to encourage riders not to over analyse shit.

[Drew]

I locked up the front wheel on my H-D Dynaglide T-Sport once, those behind me said they could see the smoke coming from the tyre.
Oh, and it had a twin disc front.:msn-wink:

I thought the Harley brakes were shit when I've ridden them. But I was expecting the wrong thing. When applied the front end doesn't dive, apply more and the wheel locks. Rear brake at the same time though, loads the front and the bike finally turns. They work just fine, just gotta use them right.

[granstar]

Wonder if dual front discs on a large cruiser are beneficial. But them HDs aren't made for stoppn. Just drop the old boots down to de road and use dem engine brakes.

Exercise vigilance when approaching others on de road

Exactly the tact I use on the ol Trumpy especially in the wet, and it's got the famous Lockheed calipers (as fitted to jet planes) :yes: Maybe why runways in GB are so long, (heard in pilot cabin "open flaps........wheels down........feet down".

[old slider]

I thought the Harley brakes were shit when I've ridden them. But I was expecting the wrong thing. When applied the front end doesn't dive, apply more and the wheel locks. Rear brake at the same time though, loads the front and the bike finally turns. They work just fine, just gotta use them right.


Thanks Drew. Riding this 310kg bike is Certainly a big learning curve for me.

[Grumph]

So to sum up, the OP made a correct decision in that he survived and neither bike or car suffered damage..

BUT he then made the wrong decision in coming on here and subjecting himself to abuse....

[Gremlin]

BUT he then made the wrong decision in coming on here and subjecting himself to abuse....
Or provided a valuable learning experience for new motorcyclists...

[tamarillo]

Horn. Use it. All credit OP and great to have these frank discussions. So let's start using our horns more. Beep beep on my stebel wakes a possible hazard up real quick and then a friendly wave of thanks keeps them happy.
We're are allowed to use them to creat awareness of our presence and it works a treat.


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[nzrobj]

Thanks for the good post, as a complete newbie to riding I will keep that advice locked away in my head!!

[R650R]

Take care out there, don't relax and always have your Plan B.

I think you carried out your plan B subconciously as a lot of experienced riders would have. You recall a great level of detail so that shows your mind was active and recording hazards.
Its a good practise to be wargaming in your mind various scenarious when you have the spare mental space and time to do it.

You did the best thing of all and that was to immediately reduce your impact velocity otherwise known as speed. I had a remarkeably similar incident about 200m after leaving my driveway. Cold tyres and cold brakes, old lady pulled out in front of me and stopped halfway across lane. I had the back wheel off the ground and landed sideways upright and inches from bumper like you. Bizarrely a family memeber was behind the old lady in the que also and witnessed!
When its this close I'm not sure if you could accelarete past in time, your instincts chose to brake and they were evidently right.
You should be able to stop in a bike length for each 10km/h of speed so at 40ish thats 8m, the car is 2m wide, big gamble to try and get past instead of low speed impact.
But well done.

[R650R]

Horn. Use it. All credit OP and great to have these frank discussions. So let's start using our horns more. Beep beep on my stebel wakes a possible hazard up real quick and then a friendly wave of thanks keeps them happy.
We're are allowed to use them to creat awareness of our presence and it works a treat.


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All great until you annoy some nutter on P....

I had a co-worker go nuts once for a friendly beep to say hey your forklift is about to back into mine. He said in no uncertain words to never beep him again under any circumstances... just imagine him near you at junction....
I live near busy intersection and that many people beep these days to say hello to each other its fairly redundant as a warning alert device.
BTW its not annoying, its just background noise like drunken teenagers screaming in streets for fun, guess they don't read the boy who cried wolf at school these days.... But one night someone will be getting attacked for real and I wont be the one calling an ambo as I wont be lifting my head off pillow to see if real or not.....
Also be aware of beeping soemoen who may stop instead of carrying on out of the way of a collision. This is very important with truck horns, often in a near miss it can be more dangerous if you blast them and then they panic stop across your path.

Same for flashing lights, we have heaps of uk imports here now and their driving technique over there is to flash people to come through tight spots...