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SlowHand
3rd October 2005, 16:18
I don't know if this has been asked before, but all this rain's made me think. If I'm going around a corner, and I run wide and hit the paint or gravel and the back starts sliding, what do I do? I guess gravel and paint require different approaches. Do I put up with it and easy off the throttle, start crying or pull it up? If you pull it up, could it throw me high side?

as a note, if any other newbies have similar questions, feel free to hijack the thread.

jrandom
3rd October 2005, 16:35
If... I run wide and hit the paint or gravel and the back starts sliding, what do I do?

well, if the *front* wheel slides yer fooked, but you werent asking about that anyways.

if your face is still off the ground, ie the front tyre is holding, then just keep the throttle steady and pretend your girlfriend is watching and will get really hot as you demonstrate your mad skillz, everyone feels the back step out now and then, it'll find traction eventually and if you havent substantially altered the engine revs or added braking you'll just drive out of the corner with no more than mild dampness of the crotch.

if you grab heaps of throttle (why would you do that, anyway?) you'll probably end up arse-surfing.

if you jam on the brakes you could highside.

so just keep it steady, eyes on your exit point and pray.

[edit: I mean, theres no guarantees you wont fall off regardless, but then I guess you should have just gone in a little less hot, and youll remember the lesson for next time...]

Mr Skid
3rd October 2005, 16:36
If I'm going around a corner, and I run wide and hit the paint or gravel and the back starts sliding, what do I do?Crash most likely.

jrandom
3rd October 2005, 16:44
Crash most likely.

yeah but dont tell the n00bs that or theyll jump off into a tree at the slightest provocation.

any slides encountered will probably just be tarsnakes or the like. no need to dive into the Gentle Embrace of the Tarmac.

FROSTY
3rd October 2005, 16:45
RELAX and accept your fate.
Im oversimplifying heaps here btw but relaxing and doing nothing really is the best thing to do at that point.

jrandom
3rd October 2005, 16:47
Im oversimplifying heaps here btw but relaxing and doing nothing really is the best thing to do at that point.

no no no, I mean, I know your right but don't oversimplify it mate.

give them a bunch of detailed instructions so they can lie in bed at night fantasising about how their going to not crash.

maybe then when it happens theyll feel more in control.

like boxers using visualisation to prepare for a fight, innit.

SlowHand
3rd October 2005, 17:13
oh c'mon fish, I might not remember it at the time of it happening, but I could have a very slight time to think. I had the back step on sat, I wasnt really leaning, so didnt freak me out too much.

So if Im in a lean lean- well a lean for a n00b anyway, I just stay with it and see where it takes me?

Here's question number two. Anyone ride when its REALLY pouring? what do you do on the motorway when there are pools everywhere? Avoid at all costs at a slower speed, or just not take the motorway?

James Deuce
3rd October 2005, 17:19
Albin, sorry but you don't get any time to think. If you want to learn to deal with slides you have to practice.

Rear wheel slides are moderated by using the throttle to control wheelspin. Button off and you may, not will, highside. Sometimes you get away with it if you button off.

Front wheel slides. The theory is that you give it a bit of throttle until you've unloaded the front tyre enough for it to grip. On wet painted road, you've usually low sided by the time you try to manage the situation.

A dirt bike and a gravel road is a good way to learn how to slide a bike controllably. Give Motu some cash and he might laugh himself silly trying to teach you.

Riding in heavy rain just needs a common sense approach, much the same as it should in a car really.

mstriumph
3rd October 2005, 17:20
................... Anyone ride when its REALLY pouring? what do you do on the motorway when there are pools everywhere? Avoid at all costs at a slower speed, or just not take the motorway?

I have been known to pull over and shelter under bridges .......

2much
3rd October 2005, 18:28
What Jim said, also keep your weight low on the foot pegs.

As for the motorway when its pissing down, I've got a habit of tucking in behind trucks or buses, not particularly safe, but alot more comfortable.
Try to travel in the wheel track of the car ahead, the car's tyre will pump most of the surface water off the road for you.

Gremlin
3rd October 2005, 18:38
This is not going to sound positive, but I've found I have learnt the most through practice.

Each time the situation is occuring, try something different and see what works. You'll find out very quickly which things should not be done.

For rain, common sense. Don't race around the corner with the same lean angle as in the dry, remember the bike can easily come out of shape if not heading in a straight line and you have to brake hard.

Also, on very slippery roads and braking for corners, be very wary of changing down into first. Easy to do, say coming up to a corner, you always change down one gear. Normally 3rd to 2nd. But because its raining, you are in 2nd... 1st is quite a jump from 2nd

yeah... I did this... excellent practice :devil2:

2much
3rd October 2005, 18:45
You'll find out very quickly which things should not be done.




Haha, yeah and you can reflect on these points as you slide along on your arse watching the sparks fly off your bike!!!

Motu
3rd October 2005, 19:29
If it happens at a reasonable speed,like 100kph or so,by the time your heart has leapt into your throat the slide has been and gone,as Frosty says,keep it loose and don't freeze up.If it happens at slow speed,like going around a traffic island,you are on the deck before you know what happened.There are ways to save - at higher speeds,say 40,50kph up,very,very careful work on the throttle will help,you got to ride that thin line between highside and lowside,it's a thin line,but can be done,you'll go wide,so look to the inside of the turn.At lower speeds you can use your foot to boot yourself up.I've turned a front wheel washout in the wet into a more controlable rear wheel slide by punching the throttle,but you need enough power to break the rear,or else you'll just push that front out completly.....maybe a dab of rear brake to get control of the front.....if you go down,go down in a rear wheel slide,the front going out can trap you under the bike.

FROSTY
3rd October 2005, 19:53
Dude -if ya want it heres the complicated version---at your level of experience I don't believe you have the skill to react in a way that will actually help you. By just relaxing you're not introducing any sudden changes in the bike which quite frankly will just make matters worse.
a motorcycle in motion really just wants to carry on in a straight line untill its going so slow (20ish km/h) it just falls over.
I'd take all the offers to go practice on a traillie seriously because in gravel or sand at slow speed you can practice how to control a slide.
re deep puddles. Yea slow down- better to arrive late than not at all

aff-man
3rd October 2005, 20:00
React....... only experience will dictate the outcome. I've pulled out of slides in more recent times that would have seen me on my ass a few years ago.....

The more you get comfortable with what the bike is doing how it's doing it what causes it to do certain things etc etc the more likley your reaction to a given situation will prove to be the right one......

My 2c.... just ride heaps shit will happen but you'll be a better rider for it.

sAsLEX
3rd October 2005, 20:11
oh and dont make sudden lane changes on the harbour bridges big metal expansion joint! that invokes some big slides

Macktheknife
3rd October 2005, 20:13
React....... only experience will dictate the outcome. I've pulled out of slides in more recent times that would have seen me on my ass a few years ago.....
The more you get comfortable with what the bike is doing how it's doing it what causes it to do certain things etc etc the more likley your reaction to a given situation will prove to be the right one......
My 2c.... just ride heaps shit will happen but you'll be a better rider for it.

Best advice out there really, there is no substitute for experience. Ride heaps and learn lots. As for the rain thing, try to avoid it, learn to live with it, every so often you will hit something that scares the stuffing out of you, you can always pull over and wait it out, I have done that several times. Skid control takes practice, just like in a car, so get yourself a dirt bike or an old shitter and thrash the hell out of it on dirt, gravel, carparks whatever. Biggest thing is dont let things scare you to the point where you freeze rigid, thats when no amount of help will do it. :drinkup:

Zed
3rd October 2005, 20:18
Here's question number two. Anyone ride when its REALLY pouring? what do you do on the motorway when there are pools everywhere? Avoid at all costs at a slower speed, or just not take the motorway?Can't say I've ever seen pools "everywhere" on the motorway (Auck I presume), but they do occur in certain spots during very heavy downpours, so when that happens just keep your speed down and ride straight through them - divide and conquer!

Ps. Don't be afraid of the motorway. :crybaby:

sAsLEX
3rd October 2005, 20:30
Can't say I've ever seen pools "everywhere" on the motorway (Auck I presume), but they do occur in certain spots during very heavy downpours, so when that happens just keep your speed down and ride straight through them - divide and conquer!

Ps. Don't be afraid of the motorway. :crybaby:

must say you must get out more.

The MW system is incredibly poorly designed and pretty much anythin more than very light rain sees standing water all over the motorway, one of the off ramps i take commonly has a river going across it. The whole system doesnt seem to have enough camber and when the rain gets heavier water pools all over it.

Zed
3rd October 2005, 21:20
The whole system doesnt seem to have enough camber and when the rain gets heavier water pools all over it.I guess our definition of 'pools' must differ, I've been riding/driving on the Ak Motorway for over 20 years and can't say it's been a huge problem except when lane flooding occurs during really heavy rainfall. Either way, slowing down and keeping the bike up straight is sound enuf advice for any noob.

Ixion
4th October 2005, 02:33
I agree with Mr Zed about "pools" on the motorway. I've been riding the Auckland motorways for 40 years in every weather that comes. I've never seen anything in the way of standing water that should give a competant rider any problem. Keep upright and straight and blat through it. I've never seen it more than 6 inches deep.

And I agree with Mr Motu and Mr Frosty and Mr Mr Skid. You can save a slid ewith footwork, like off road or motard stuff. But for a beginner , it is too scarey , and you will crash. Ride slower. Slowing down will not demean your manhood.

Lou Girardin
4th October 2005, 07:30
I usually take some of the weight on my knee slider till the front finds traction again.











I'm a riding God.




And full of shit.

Motu
4th October 2005, 07:43
I have some old caster wheels from a creeper on my knee sliders,this allows me to take more weight on my knee.



I'm a riding dork.



I never tell lies,it's rude.

SlowHand
4th October 2005, 09:08
I guess our pools do differ then. A couple inches that pull the steering on the car was what I meant. I just wondered if it would slow down the bike enough to put me off balance. As for the off roader, im trying to get some money together for a dunga that I can experiment on. I can make a video of it later if anyone wants a good laugh!

Artifice
4th October 2005, 13:03
i had the front of the r6 start to slide the other week. i gone into the corner too fast. It cant have slid more than a couple of inches before it took up again. man i love these tyres. the ones on the 4hundy woulda just low sided me. its a good warning to take it easy.

John
4th October 2005, 15:42
if you loose the front, GUN IT and tug the wheel to try lighten the front and stand it up quick - then regain your line, this works depending on speed and bike power, its successfull if your in the torque range 50% of the time, else stand it up and brake better than a lowside just run off the road.

If you loose the rear, your sweet, just keep the throttle steady and counter it like your drifting a car, not that I know but I guess you've driven a car, I never have, but yea its just like dirt riding, counter it, wait for the tire to regain some grip, NEVER let go off the throttle else your going to regain grip to quick.

best way to pratice is a closed round about brake hard mid corner, the front will start to leave you, do as above, for the rear, go out in the wet and power it on in the corner, but of course the best way is to read the corners and not get yourself into trouble in the first place.

And yes I have experienced all of the above on more than one occasion but normally at mid speeds.

Jackrat
4th October 2005, 19:21
if you loose the front, GUN IT and tug the wheel to try lighten the front and stand it up quick - then regain your line, this works depending on speed and bike power, its successfull if your in the torque range 50% of the time, else stand it up and brake better than a lowside just run off the road.

If you loose the rear, your sweet, just keep the throttle steady and counter it like your drifting a car, not that I know but I guess you've driven a car, I never have, but yea its just like dirt riding, counter it, wait for the tire to regain some grip, NEVER let go off the throttle else your going to regain grip to quick.

best way to pratice is a closed round about brake hard mid corner, the front will start to leave you, do as above, for the rear, go out in the wet and power it on in the corner, but of course the best way is to read the corners and not get yourself into trouble in the first place.

And yes I have experienced all of the above on more than one occasion but normally at mid speeds.

Your comments about front slides are interesting.
Food for thought.
I manage to push the front out quite regular (lots of twisty back roads an a lack of common sense)
I just keep it going an the bike does the rest,usualy all over before I have time for any real reaction anyway.
Low sided once,high sided once,hope to never repeat either.
Cheers.

SlowHand
4th October 2005, 21:51
Awesome guys! they are all imbedded in my memory. whether I remember it at the right time is another matter. Now if I ever enter a corner at the right speed, or above, and have an off, I will be able to look back and think ahhh, jackrat/motu/frosty etc san was right!

just gota get this entry speed thing down.

John
4th October 2005, 21:58
Awesome guys! they are all imbedded in my memory. whether I remember it at the right time is another matter. Now if I ever enter a corner at the right speed, or above, and have an off, I will be able to look back and think ahhh, jackrat/motu/frosty etc san was right!

just gota get this entry speed thing down.
thats the thing mate, if you get into that sort of situation, its got to be NATURAL - it will come with time, just go your own pace, learn your bike/tire limits and you will be fine, dont try keep up.

Flyingpony
4th October 2005, 22:11
I guess our pools do differ then. A couple inches that pull the steering on the car was what I meant. I just wondered if it would slow down the bike enough to put me off balance.
Hitting water won't slow your bike enough for you to lose balance unless you're very unlucky and the engine has stalled due to water in electrics, water in air intake or rapid contracting cooling of bore causing it to seizing the piston (never had this but definitely slowed down my retired dirt bikes).

From experience with deep water, your speed will drop to around 15km/hr and you'll end up with at least wet feet. At higher entry speeds a water wall will appear in front and crash over top of the dash/tank/seat followed by a rapid reduction in speed. And wet brakes.

My only concern is losing speed too quickly resulting in getting thrown over bars, high siding, or aqua-plaining. Water on road a night is hard to spot unless it's too late.

John
4th October 2005, 22:17
SNIP Hitting water won't slow your bike enough for you to lose balance unless you're very unlucky and the engine has stalled due to water in electrics......................

Well if the pool is deep enough, and sure we can misjudge things like this your steering can be thrown around abit on intial impact, thats why you should always make sure that your head bearing is tightened to the correct torque so as to reduce the effect, I have had a few moments in said situation comming out of a corner not fun at all.

Korea
4th October 2005, 22:26
My 2c... still an amateur mind...

Weight or anchor yourself to the outside peg.

The first time the back let go, I panicked and both legs were flailing as I tried to get the bike back upright resulting in it trying to spit me off.

A little older, a little wiser, I find that if I conciously anchor the outside foot on the peg and/or grip the tank with my knee, I can more naturally fall into the cornering position AND when the back starts letting go I can relax better because I've got something to hang on to.

Oh yeah,





Always treat gravel with the utmost respect.

Korea
4th October 2005, 23:15
Nothing further.

SlowHand
4th October 2005, 23:35
what on earth are you doing letting the back go in Korea?Don't u know people can dob u in with their camera's for that little extra dosh!

thanks for the advice, and gravel- my driveway is gravel and the RG squirms at anything over 25. Gravel roads are the only time I wish I had a car. Maybe my next bike should be a dual purpose...

Brett
5th October 2005, 17:53
Maybe a bit of a non issue, but i know that its an issue with my bike at the moment, but if the front or rear of the bike wants to step out, then you may need to adjust it. It is possible a smaller or bigger person owned it before you and was set up for you.
My bike needs to have the front raised a tad because the front likes to try and tuck under when cornering. Seems only to happen at relativiley low speeds, but i dont ride hard enough to lean like that on the open road ...yet...only been riding a sweet 7 months...

SlowHand
5th October 2005, 18:10
I think as of yesterday the suspension got firmer, but feeling the bike is something that will come with time for me, only been a sweet 13days

jimdaworm
5th October 2005, 20:36
I am still learning too. My experience when I was about 15 with cars, doing donuts hand brake 180s driving on gravel and sliding out constantly was great experience. Now when I drive a car and it starts sliding for some reason I dont even worry :calm:

I plan to try to do the same on my bike... little by little.

I have been locking it up (The back) every now and then when it seems safe and its been raining just to see what its like. Last weekend I also rode on some grass and dropped the clutch and got the rear spinning to get used counter steering/balancing it.

Now I just need another 10 years of experience and I should be able to ride ok :drinkup:

flash
9th October 2005, 20:16
its all good being scared of falling off in a corner (low slide), but personally im more scared of me crossing the white line(not sliping) and greeting a car going the other way, or a cliff for that matter. Has anyone encounted these, because for me its not the fear of falling off, but being hit.

P.S: ive never fallin off on the road (only dirt)
TOUCH WOOD :slap:

Ixion
9th October 2005, 21:19
i,, or a cliff for that matter. ,,

..

Blurdy cliffs, they jump out at me. They do. I swear it.

SlowHand
9th October 2005, 21:45
Been riding around a lot in the rain lately (hey, when hasnt it been raining lately) Just went to mission bay and back, taking it easy, feeling the back that little bit out of line - awesome feeling - just like sliding round in a car, but so barred up with adrenalin I cant sleep now.

Dont plan to ride at high speed in the rain though. In good time..

I do love not being able to see white lines and having personholes sneak up on me tho! not!

John
9th October 2005, 21:58
its all good being scared of falling off in a corner (low slide), but personally im more scared of me crossing the white line(not sliping) and greeting a car going the other way, or a cliff for that matter.

Yea, I've had that, SH14 was going abit quick and overtook a truck my brakes were abit fadded and I came in to hot, but the only reason it was a close call is because I DIDNT LOOK THROUGH THE CORNER number 1 reason for crashes, DONT LOOK AT THE DANGER LOOK AT THE SAFE PATH..

mini_me
10th October 2005, 19:36
Hitting water won't slow your bike enough for you to lose balance unless you're very unlucky and the engine has stalled due to water in electrics, water in air intake or rapid contracting cooling of bore causing it to seizing the piston (never had this but definitely slowed down my retired dirt bikes).

we are talking about those little puddles on the motorway, aren't we?
The scenarios you present seem a little far fetched to me when we are talking about water on the motorway however i do remeber seeing a photo in PB a few years back which showed a man standing at chest depth in a river and beneath the surface you can make out the purty lines of a honda sp1

m/m

mini_me
10th October 2005, 19:41
its all good being scared of falling off in a corner (low slide), but personally im more scared of me crossing the white line(not sliping) and greeting a car going the other way, or a cliff for that matter. Has anyone encounted these, because for me its not the fear of falling off, but being hit.

P.S: ive never fallin off on the road (only dirt)
TOUCH WOOD :slap:

yeah sudden stops are where the damage is done usually
m/m