Staying warm

[IronPawz]

It was crazy cold today riding into Wellington so here are some comments on staying warm.

Things I found work well that are not typical:

-I've stuffed a woolen beanie in the lower part of my helmet a few times in bitter weather to stop the wind coming up to my face. Sure I have face masks and neck socks but a well placed item in front of the mouth doesn't hurt my. In keeping the cold wind out is has been great. Probably die of carbon poisoning so something like an old lady beanie you can breath through that still blocks the wind.

-Plastics, once all the thermal layers are on (tee shirt, tight thermal * 2, thin ice breaker hoodie * 2, full neck sock) the plastics keep the wind out and make a huge difference (forget just using them for rain the wind is also a big part of the charm).

-Men in tights - thermal tights * 2. Today I doubled the order of thermal tights that I've been wearing all winter and it was toasty where it counts (you know where) more than I would have thought. I've some new ones that are full tights down to the toes and ones I've had for ages that are just legging. Besides the kids love them "do the men in tights dance again!" and it gives the wife a good laugh. 2 for $30 from Max for the wife's fleecy lined tights (which I stole). They are great under the work cloths through the day on days like today also.

The basics

-It is a play off between restriction and warmth (ok and fashion but they are under cloths mostly and my bike is Japanese). Yes it can be restrictive but in the cold you tend to hold muscles tight and try and avoid moving which is more restrictive and mentally draining (I'd just sooner be warm, awake and somewhat restricted).

-Neck Pain is not uncommon on my long commute in winder due to neck socks restricting my motion, over time this can be quite noticeable so welcome ideas here but again I live with it really for the safety of being warm and it goes away in summer.

-The full kit for someone doing around 70 minutes in real cold with likely rain to stay warm for me (not much natural padding) is

One decent tee-shirt preferably a little tight. Two tight thermal long armed thermal skivvies. Two ice breaker hoodies (I wear the hood up on one of them and my thumbs through the finger wholes on one under my gloves). Decent jacket with thermal and waterproof layers in. Two sets of tights. One pair of jeans. Good pants with thermal layer in. Decent arctic gloves. Decent boots with normal socks. Full one piece plastics. Neck sock (the kind that also goes down the front and back and up under the helmet. Decent helmet. Heated grips (first time on 75% for a while this morning).

Last layers need to be put on outside (to stop overheating) so have everything ready as finding the keys in that setup is not good at all and sweat on the face turns cold fast once you start moving. With all this I can move well enough and do 70 minutes warm and dry. On the way home I left out one hoodie and one thermal top and I was getting cold for the last 15 minutes (not bad but certainly would have put them on again if I could do over).

If you have some natural padding I am sure this is not all needed and perhaps I just get cold easy however I FAR prefer warm marshmallow man over cold style is everything boy.

I heard about a chap near Wellington this morning on a GN250 in the rain in light gear legs exposed. That is madness as it was the coldest day of the year to date leaving home this morning (warmer and wetter in Wellington but still cold).

I am sure the beanie in the helmet idea could be a bad one for some and hopefully others have better ideas but I once forgot my neck sock and pulled into a garage for a $20 old lady hat that made a HUGE difference to the rest of the trip and was I think far safer than being sincerely cold around the neck as I was to spend that on such a fashion statement (it was white with a pompom and worth every $).

For years I rode very cold in winter. Whatever part of you gets really cold effects the brain badly and it is miserable riding so keep it all warm.

Oh and yes I can still walk fine in all that. Last note pull everything up well as you go and stretch the legs once moving on the bike (tights can have other unpleasant side effects if to tight). I may look like an inflated turd but I am a warm inflated turd!

[jellywrestler]

It was crazy cold today riding into Wellington so here are some comments on staying warm.

Things I found work well that are not typical:

-I've stuffed a woolen beanie in the lower part of my helmet a few times in bitter weather to stop the wind coming up to my face. Sure I have face masks and neck socks but a well placed item in front of the mouth doesn't hurt my. In keeping the cold wind out is has been great. Probably die of carbon poisoning so something like an old lady beanie you can breath through that still blocks the wind.

-Plastics, once all the thermal layers are on (tee shirt, tight thermal * 2, thin ice breaker hoodie * 2, full neck sock) the plastics keep the wind out and make a huge difference (forget just using them for rain the wind is also a big part of the charm).

-Men in tights - thermal tights * 2. Today I doubled the order of thermal tights that I've been wearing all winter and it was toasty where it counts (you know where) more than I would have thought. I've some new ones that are full tights down to the toes and ones I've had for ages that are just legging. Besides the kids love them "do the men in tights dance again!" and it gives the wife a good laugh. 2 for $30 from Max for the wife's fleecy lined tights (which I stole). They are great under the work cloths through the day on days like today also.

The basics

-It is a play off between restriction and warmth (ok and fashion but they are under cloths mostly and my bike is Japanese). Yes it can be restrictive but in the cold you tend to hold muscles tight and try and avoid moving which is more restrictive and mentally draining (I'd just sooner be warm, awake and somewhat restricted).

-Neck Pain is not uncommon on my long commute in winder due to neck socks restricting my motion, over time this can be quite noticeable so welcome ideas here but again I live with it really for the safety of being warm and it goes away in summer.

-The full kit for someone doing around 70 minutes in real cold with likely rain to stay warm for me (not much natural padding) is

One decent tee-shirt preferably a little tight. Two tight thermal long armed thermal skivvies. Two ice breaker hoodies (I wear the hood up on one of them and my thumbs through the finger wholes on one under my gloves). Decent jacket with thermal and waterproof layers in. Two sets of tights. One pair of jeans. Good pants with thermal layer in. Decent arctic gloves. Decent boots with normal socks. Full one piece plastics. Neck sock (the kind that also goes down the front and back and up under the helmet. Decent helmet. Heated grips (first time on 75% for a while this morning).

Last layers need to be put on outside (to stop overheating) so have everything ready as finding the keys in that setup is not good at all and sweat on the face turns cold fast once you start moving. With all this I can move well enough and do 70 minutes warm and dry. On the way home I left out one hoodie and one thermal top and I was getting cold for the last 15 minutes (not bad but certainly would have put them on again if I could do over).

If you have some natural padding I am sure this is not all needed and perhaps I just get cold easy however I FAR prefer warm marshmallow man over cold style is everything boy.

I heard about a chap near Wellington this morning on a GN250 in the rain in light gear legs exposed. That is madness as it was the coldest day of the year to date leaving home this morning (warmer and wetter in Wellington but still cold).

I am sure the beanie in the helmet idea could be a bad one for some and hopefully others have better ideas but I once forgot my neck sock and pulled into a garage for a $20 old lady hat that made a HUGE difference to the rest of the trip and was I think far safer than being sincerely cold around the neck as I was to spend that on such a fashion statement (it was white with a pompom and worth every $).

For years I rode very cold in winter. Whatever part of you gets really cold effects the brain badly and it is miserable riding so keep it all warm.

Oh and yes I can still walk fine in all that. Last note pull everything up well as you go and stretch the legs once moving on the bike (tights can have other unpleasant side effects if to tight). I may look like an inflated turd but I am a warm inflated turd!

heated jacket, warms your core and you'd be surprised how clearer you think when you're warm

[IronPawz]

heated jacket, warms your core and you'd be surprised how clearer you think when you're warm

Good point I would love one of those. Might have a wee look at that. I do find that if just one thing gets really cold (like one finger due to bad glove) it is also a major distraction. Bit like having every part of yourself not being stabbed but one is still very distracting.

[pritch]

The shops that sell tramping gear usually sell hand warmers. One of those strategically placed in a chest pocket makes a difference. On the way home some fish and chips up yer jumper might help at a pinch, as would heated grips and/or hand guards.

Heated vests are available for the well healed and an internet search should reveal battery powered socks. (German hunters use battery powered sox and gloves 'cause they sit out in the freezing cold.)

There is other specialist clothing around, the days of wearing an army greatcoat back to front are long gone.

[IronPawz]

The shops that sell tramping gear usually sell hand warmers. One of those strategically placed in a chest pocket makes a difference. On the way home some fish and chips up yer jumper might help at a pinch, as would heated grips and/or hand guards.


Fish and chips is a great idea. I suppose a good old hot water bottle would be good too. A few layers out or not fully hot. There are those things you microwave also. I don't mind going all the layers it is low tech and it works really well if you have decent thin thermal gear and it covers a lot of surface. Again having one really warm thing is nice and it helps but having one really cold thing and its still bad over time.

I well remember fantasizing about the fire at home I desperately hoped was going when I got there. Back on my old F650 all upright and over exposed to the cold. So a forward leaning bike and some fairings can make a big difference also (to a long distance winter commuter).

[jellywrestler]

Fish and chips is a great idea. I suppose a good old hot water bottle would be good too. A few layers out or not fully hot. There are those things you microwave also. I don't mind going all the layers it is low tech and it works really well if you have decent thin thermal gear and it covers a lot of surface. Again having one really warm thing is nice and it helps but having one really cold thing and its still bad over time.

I well remember fantasizing about the fire at home I desperately hoped was going when I got there. Back on my old F650 all upright and over exposed to the cold. So a forward leaning bike and some fairings can make a big difference also (to a long distance winter commuter).

one reason your hands and feet get cold is your body when cold limits the blood flow to them so the returning blood doesn't cool the core down to a critical level, heated grips might transfer a bit of heat to your core, a heated jacket does your core and the warm bllod flows to the extremeities as per normal, i've done ten day trips to the brass with cotton socks, all i can wear, and rubber boots, (waterprrof) remmeber getting cold toes twice all up plus once you've got grips they stay on that bike whereas the jacket moves along with you, and youy don't have to bulk up on clothes either

[mrchips]

Eat more pies

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[jasonu]

Get a car with a heater.

[skippa1]

Battery owered jackets.....pfftttt

used to brave the winter cold in a great coat with newspaper stuffed down the front......the triumph had built in hand warmers, one each side, those of you that rode then will know what Im talking about

[Blackbird]

I've always found that heated grips have marginal benefits for me as I suffer from cold fingers. This winter, I finally succumbed for cold early morning starts and bought some electrically heated gloves. Pure magic and wish I'd done it years ago. The whole body stays warmer and I've got much better control of the bike than with bulky winter gloves. A happy chappie!

[haydes55]

I have a Milwaukee heated hoody. Runs on a power tool battery. You can also but a plug to connect it to a cigarette lighter outlet. T-shirt, heated hoody and my textile jacket and I'm toasty

[roogazza]

Luxury! I can't believe I rode in -4 mornings in 65/66 in a nylon parka. :eek5:

We discovered Belstaff a few years later,which were fantastic things for their day.

At 16yrs old my mother and me discovered after thought, that the scarf I wore to tie my hair down (it was the sixties) worked great if you cut it up and made like a neck warmer that you can buy today.

Won't even go out in the cold now at 67 !!!!!! :oi-grr: :crazy:

[ellipsis]

...dry macrocarpa, old man pine or gum and watching other people ride on youtube will suffice for me these days...:baby:

[Banditbandit]

Toughen up

[Maha]

On Sunday I rode for about an hour and half in less than 10 degs temp, wind chill made for more than uncomfortable riding at times, I could see snow the closer I got to home. I have good gear but had summer gloves. The key is to keep the wind off you body the best you can. All n' all when I got home I had a hot shower and went up to the club for a beer.

I guess if you're regular rider in cold conditions having heated stuff must be a godsend....short distance cold weather riding not so much.

[Pound]

but a plug


Sorry, that's all I could see in your post. :laugh:

[nzspokes]

I'm riding to National Park first thing tomorrow. Guess I'll see how good I'm set up for the cold.

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[BuzzardNZ]

I'm riding to National Park first thing tomorrow. Guess I'll see how good I'm set up for the cold.

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I think you'll be fine...

http://skipthepie.org/nutrition-photos/o/35083_13069615378939.jpg

[Oakie]

Warm socks under Revit boots
Revit pants with liner
Revit jacket with waterproof layer and winter warmer layer under the outside jacket
Good gloves, 5 years old but still going (even if there is duct tape holding one wrist together)
HEATED HANDGRIPS - the one thing I'll never do without on a bike
merino balaclava
a neck warmer that my daughter sewed together for me when she had some polar fleece left over from something.

Generally on cold days when i walk into work and the cagers say "aren't you cold' ... they wouldnt suspect that I'm probabaly warmer than they are after their walk in from the carpark.

There is no such thing as cold. There is just a poor choice of clothing.

[nzspokes]

I think you'll be fine...



Yup thats the colour I expected your bike to be.

[neels]

Don't have too many dramas with the cold.

Good thermal socks inside good boots, feeties are fine.
Textile pants (can't remember the make and can't be bothered going to look) with long thermals if it gets really cold (like brass monkey cold), legs are fine.
Long sleeved merino, long sleeved light polar fleece, if really cold a single layer rain jacket for the wind, leather jacket, warm enough and can still move my limbs.
Silk balaclava under the helmet tucked into the neck of the polar fleece, chin and nose toasty.
Merino glove liners inside pretty standard motorcycling gloves, marginal and really should get heated grips one of these days.

Only thing on the shopping list is decent wet weather gear, if it rains I freeze.

[IronPawz]

one reason your hands and feet get cold is your body when cold limits the blood flow to them so the returning blood doesn't cool the core down to a critical level, heated grips might transfer a bit of heat to your core, a heated jacket does your core and the warm bllod flows to the extremeities as per normal, i've done ten day trips to the brass with cotton socks, all i can wear, and rubber boots, (waterprrof) remmeber getting cold toes twice all up plus once you've got grips they stay on that bike whereas the jacket moves along with you, and youy don't have to bulk up on clothes either

That makes really good sense and it is worth some science related testing. Can we devise some simple tests here? Weather is not consistent but my ride is and with all those layers (and my back pack to hold spares) it could be done.

-Test one- If I use a hottie down the front to warm the core more can I wear less thermals and stay warm enough? I never currently have an issue with feet in general socks and my current boots (Alpinestare en13634 - made in Croatia - learn something new everyday). I have heated grips and good gloves (alpinestare arctic) bit can I lose some thermal layers and not get cold (currently tee-shirt, two tight termals, two thin thermal hoodies) and still be ok. I really notice those layers in areas of cold I could reasonably judge (subjective not perfect science but good enough for a fun piss around test).

So I will try if it is cold enough tomorrow loosing a tight thermal and a hoodie (which will be nice on my neck as I wear one hoodie up and it causes bulk around the back of the helmet and contributes to neck pain).

Is this a reasonable test and can we improve it or does in fact anyone give a crap to try it other than me? Oh the plastics could be a variable also (only wear them in serious cold or obvious wet but it changes a lot between here and town and I don't watch the weather at all - spoils the surprise.

[IronPawz]

Warm socks under Revit boots
Revit pants with liner
Revit jacket with waterproof layer and winter warmer layer under the outside jacket
Good gloves, 5 years old but still going (even if there is duct tape holding one wrist together)
HEATED HANDGRIPS - the one thing I'll never do without on a bike
merino balaclava
a neck warmer that my daughter sewed together for me when she had some polar fleece left over from something.

Generally on cold days when i walk into work and the cagers say "aren't you cold' ... they wouldnt suspect that I'm probabaly warmer than they are after their walk in from the carpark.

There is no such thing as cold. There is just a poor choice of clothing.


I've not been doing the balaclava for a while which is a mistake I remember good ones being great. I've been doing the thin icebreaker (or is it mac pack) hoodie up and a thick neck sock thing that goes down the front and back. I think that is a mistake because it is bulky around the need and on the fireblade all learn forward it stresses my need and does not keep my face warm. So I am taking from this get a good Balaclava again because they are good and a neck sock should be just that for the neck only, thinner, good quality material and not bulk. My neck gets quite saw at the moment.

My gloves are older but still good also. Serious cold gloves take ages to break in (for me be interested in comments here). They use to make my hands numb and they seemed bulky and I hated them. However they where expensive so I just kept wearing them and finally they became great and now I really don't mind them (combination break in and hand adjustment probably). Point being gloves can be horrible but possibly they break in eventually. Using leather conditioner also helped make them better but I think it was the lining getting warn that also helped.

[IronPawz]

Don't have too many dramas with the cold.

Good thermal socks inside good boots, feeties are fine.
Textile pants (can't remember the make and can't be bothered going to look) with long thermals if it gets really cold (like brass monkey cold), legs are fine.
Long sleeved merino, long sleeved light polar fleece, if really cold a single layer rain jacket for the wind, leather jacket, warm enough and can still move my limbs.
Silk balaclava under the helmet tucked into the neck of the polar fleece, chin and nose toasty.
Merino glove liners inside pretty standard motorcycling gloves, marginal and really should get heated grips one of these days.

Only thing on the shopping list is decent wet weather gear, if it rains I freeze.

I'd take from this again balaclava is key gear (so I will get some again having lost them all) I still suffer in the face and that just makes sense I remember them being great for the nose etc. Also plastics are just the shizer for rain and also wind, I don't thing you'd regret it I get a boost (having just got one recently) from taking it off and having all my gear (and me) completely dry. Best tip here is reach around backwards to take them off from the arm, trying to wiggle out (as I was) once inside is crap and overheats you and stresses the gear, a reach around is easier and faster.

[Oakie]

Only thing on the shopping list is decent wet weather gear, if it rains I freeze.

This ... https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/products/233748/SCOTT-Ergonomic-Pro-DP-Rain-Jacket/ and https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/products/2377960001007/SCOTT-Definit-DP-Pant/

Best wet weather gear I've used. Genuinely waterproof and not bulky.

[pritch]

I've not been doing the balaclava for a while which is a mistake

It's not necessarily a mistake. Wearing a balaclava under a helmet will mean you need to buy a new helmet if you want one that actually fits, 'cause the balaclava will compress the lining and make the helmet too big.

No that's not a theory, that's the voice of sad experience.

[IronPawz]

It's not necessarily a mistake. Wearing a balaclava under a helmet will mean you need to buy a new helmet if you want one that actually fits, 'cause the balaclava will compress the lining and make the helmet too big.

No that's not a theory, that's the voice of sad experience.


My current helmet I wear my hoodie inside pretty much all the time. It is thin and I've had balaclava's in there before no issue. However I do wear it without the hoodie at times and it is a bit loose which reading this seems a no no. That helmet has done now about 55,000kms in less than 18 months so probably it is time to go anyway (I keep saying I should change it). I almost got taken out by a late model VW (like the new old one) just today (just came onto my lane only my alert state prevented them just driving into me) so it makes me think again I need a new one.

Makes me realise I don't really now much about some of these things for all that riding. When to change them (helmet) how loose is to loose. Might be a good thread to start but likely it is done to death already.

[Berries]

I eat porridge.

[Bass]

I eat porridge.

But where there's no sense, there's no feeling, eh? :lol: ;)

[roogazza]

It's not necessarily a mistake. Wearing a balaclava under a helmet will mean you need to buy a new helmet if you want one that actually fits, 'cause the balaclava will compress the lining and make the helmet too big.

No that's not a theory, that's the voice of sad experience.

Yeah pritch, no fucker sticks their swede in my Shoei .
One of my sons wanted to borrow it for a car hillclimb,fuck off ! :devil2:

[neels]

It's not necessarily a mistake. Wearing a balaclava under a helmet will mean you need to buy a new helmet if you want one that actually fits, 'cause the balaclava will compress the lining and make the helmet too big.

No that's not a theory, that's the voice of sad experience.

Haven't had any dramas with mine, helmet still fits with or without it just fine, which is what I would expect given that it's a motorcycle balaclava not some wooly thing your gran knitted.

[Cosmik de Bris]

It's not necessarily a mistake. Wearing a balaclava under a helmet will mean you need to buy a new helmet if you want one that actually fits, 'cause the balaclava will compress the lining and make the helmet too big.

No that's not a theory, that's the voice of sad experience.

This is a bit daft, unless you are using a chain mail balaclava they are not that thick. I suppose you have a haircut every two days as well.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I agree on the use of plastic rain gear for wind protection, wind chill is the real enemy. Those that say harden up, yeah maybe, what is cold to one person is not to another. What cannot be disputed is if you get cold your brain function dramatically decreases in efficiency, that is never a good thing.

[pritch]

This is a bit daft, unless you are using a chain mail balaclava they are not that thick. I suppose you have a haircut every two days as well.

It's not daft, I can't remember which balaclava stretched the helmet but the one I have here is a Zegna knitted silk number and I doubt that there is much better available. I don't suppose it matters much if you ride so slow that the wind doesn't try to move your helmet around on your head. :devil2:

[neels]

I don't suppose it matters much if you ride so slow that the wind doesn't try to move your helmet around on your head. :devil2:

So that's why I haven't had a problem. Mystery solved.

[nzspokes]

I'm riding to National Park first thing tomorrow. Guess I'll see how good I'm set up for the cold.

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No worries. Good gear beats the cold.

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[iYRe]

I have an old pair of tecknic pants, which are good enough I have never had to wear the thermal liner. On a really cold day I will wear a pair of track pants or thermals underneath, but it would have to be subzero.

Recently I bought an RJays Voyager jacket, which comes in a "stout" sizing - as I am stouter than most. If the temperature is over 15 deg, its too warm for the thermal liner, even with just a tshirt underneath. I have been riding to work on frosty mornings with the thermal in, and just a polo shirt and shorts underneath. After about 30 mins on the motorway at 100+ I start to feel a sort of cold feeling - I think it is just the jacket material cooling. I have yet to think "damn I cant handle this". One morning at 0 deg I decided I would wear a light cotton jersey as well, and I was positively toasty.
THis is the jacket:
http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/1868-rjays_mens_textile_jackets/14007-rjays_voyager_iv_4_mens_textil.aspx
For gloves I wear 1Tonne Razor:
http://www.1tonne.co.nz/index.php?page=listingDetails&categoryid=104&sco=&collectionid=&prodid=63&pageNum=1&x=32&y=4
They are a 3 season glove, but I find with heated grips and a warm torso they are fine. I've had them for 4 years and they are still in good condition, and still super comfy (of all the gloves I tried, these were the nicest to slide the old fingers into.. soft and velvety).

I didnt think RJay's were very good, but I have to say, this is the most comfortable, warmest, driest, easiest to get on and off jacket I have ever worn. I really really like it.

[IronPawz]

As discussed I've tried an experiment to see if heating the core helps everywhere with amazing (to me at least) results! It was so amazing you could almost hear the second exclamation mark.

Test - Really cold morning (started with biggest frost I've seen so far this year at home but not quite as bitter in the air as few days back).
Removed one thermal hoodie (they are thin quality devices)
Removed my bulky neck sock (also goes down front and back) I replaced it with the beanie inside the helmet and under the strap trick
Placed on hottie of boiled water on the outside of tee-shirt, two thermal skives and now single thermal hoodie
Over this is my jacked with water and winter layers in and over it all is my plastics

Result
Bit warm to start but by pushing shoulders out a little it made a gap and was fine
Face was massive improvement over neck sock due to no cold wind on face / eyes and less restricted neck
HOWEVER - once I got moving it was just night and day better, I was warm! The road was dry and I switched into summer riding
How to tell things have changed - noodling on straights, singing to myself and riding like summer (fast, through traffic taking all gaps)

It was just so much better like those first warm days when you layers come off and you feel all mischievous taking all the passing opportunities and making split second decisions about routing slow passing cages (up the inside, out and gone through the closing gap).

The most amazing thing? Never turned on the grips which have been on 50% most days recently. My hands did get a bit cold but I set the bar and don't turn them on until they are actually cold enough to really want them. They never got that cold so I just lived with them being cool. This means only one thing, the hottie heated the core and the warm blood flow was increased to the hands and heated them (people with poor circulation get cold hands so it makes sense warm blood and a warm core works). However mentioned this was on the money and this is enough of a test I think to 100% confirm that.

The hottie stayed hot for the hole 60 minute ride. Towards the end I could pull the shoulders back a little to pull the hottie in and it was much less warm on arrival. This was really quite something getting to work warm, not so stiff and tired and pumped from a great ride. It also put me back in touch with the Blade and lifted my spirits from being bummed out about my Katana do up seeming so impossible suddenly.

I will 100% be using that hottie more. I am not padded (the ultimate insulation really no use saying you don't need layers when you are in part layered) so I get cold and its crap so being suddenly warm was just so noticeable. Makes me really appreciate Kiwibiker too because this test came from the conversation on this thread and has massively (after 4 solid years) improved my winter riding blues. I think grips on 1 would have been nicer also.

Sensational result, biggest riding tip / improvement I've had in ages. I am looking forward to tomorrow which should be dry and cold as all hell. Thanks to everyone discussing things here. The small tips and ideas can sometimes have the biggest results for individuals involved.

[IronPawz]

one reason your hands and feet get cold is your body when cold limits the blood flow to them so the returning blood doesn't cool the core down to a critical level, heated grips might transfer a bit of heat to your core, a heated jacket does your core and the warm bllod flows to the extremeities as per normal, i've done ten day trips to the brass with cotton socks, all i can wear, and rubber boots, (waterprrof) remmeber getting cold toes twice all up plus once you've got grips they stay on that bike whereas the jacket moves along with you, and youy don't have to bulk up on clothes either

I wrote an entry to this thread on my test and result and just wanted to say THANKS you are 100% right and the test proved it completely with a hottie, didn't even use my heated grips and had the single best ride I have had for ages. Like riding in summer (dry road and warm, even though it was bloody cold). Put hottie down the front inside jacket outside other layers. really appreciate this comment as it will make many many rides (daily commuter all winter long) much much nicer for hopefully years to come. On ya Jellywrestler in my book you are a bloodly legend.

[Waipukbiker]

Everyone has different tolerances to temperature, What may work for some wont work for some one else, After spending 6 months working in Antarctica which including hooning around on snowmobiles Ive got a fair idea of what works and what dousnt. I can stay toasty warm and dry in any conditions on my bike which includes riding over the Desert rd in driving sleet. The golden rule down on the ice was simple, keep the body heat in and the wind out. if you can achieve that on a bike, you will stay warm. NZ Made Marino thermals, I say Marino cos like any wool, it dousnt get cold if it gets wet and nobody can be allergic to Marino, dont know why but its totally itch free. layer with polar fleece, the likes of Farmlands sell those box packs of polar fleece items, singlet, T shirt, long sleeve top, trackies, beanie and gloves. All for about 90 bucks. Wear a Zip up jersey that zips right to the top of the collar, This seals the neck against the wind as helmets normally will extend down over the top of them. Wear a proper helmet balaclava if you want but I dont normally bother as the jersey seems to seal the neck ok. I use heavy Adventure boots which are totally storm proof and gumboot socks, (If you want decent socks, once again, go to your local Ag merchants, Farmers dont like cold feet.) I dont know of any totally waterproof bike pants, I wear a pair of trackies under my Revit summer pants and a light weight pair of tramping pants over the top, these are totaly weather proof and can be stuffed in a pocket when not in use. I know there is no such thing as the "best" jacket but my Technic freeway jacket has never let a drop of water in during the 4 years Ive had it. Im lucky in that my bike (Wee Strom) has big wind deflecters around the grips and I fitted heated grips on as well so I can wear summer gloves to keep good feel on the bars. If your jacket is a bit suspect for warmth or weatherproofing, wear a light tramping jacket over the top, keeps all the wind out and if any water does sneak through, the bike jacket will handle it with ease. Thats my 2 cents worth anyway.

[IronPawz]

Everyone has different tolerances to temperature, What may work for some wont work for some one else, After spending 6 months working in Antarctica which including hooning around on snowmobiles Ive got a fair idea of what works and what dousnt. I can stay toasty warm and dry in any conditions on my bike which includes riding over the Desert rd in driving sleet. The golden rule down on the ice was simple, keep the body heat in and the wind out.

Really good points in there I think a trip to farmers on the weekend and good look at merino. As for staying dry plastics over the top keep out wind and rain. I've drystar jacket and pants but at 40,000kms per year they are never waterproof two winters in a row like they where new. With plastics it just does not matter anymore. And now is all else is not enough I've become a fan of additional heat (currently in form of hottie and grips). Wind out body heat in is a great comment. There is nothing like a spastic over gear for keeping wind out around that 45+ minute mark. So nice to take it off and have all the gear dry also (plus they themselves dry out much faster than the gear). As for gloves I found winter gloves take ages to run in but once they are they are actually not bad (but we are talking at least 10,000 kms in case of my current ones with lots of waxing and pain / numb hands along the way). Wind defectors sound fantastic but I've never found them for a Fireblade and they'd probably look terrible on that bike (not that I am a poser but I have my limits).

[neels]

As for staying dry plastics over the top keep out wind and rain.
If it's cold or wet I wear a single layer waterproof cycling jacket between my polar fleece and leather jacket, keeps me warm and dry unless it's really pissing down.

My very unscientific opinion is that it's effective because it's not flapping in the breeze so there's no airflow upsetting the insulation layer with cold air, but stops the cold air getting through from outside.

[G4L4XY]

Pee in ya leathers, it'll trickle down and keep ya feet warm

[Moi]

Pee in ya wetsuit, it'll trickle down and keep ya feet warm when you're surfing

Fixed it for you...

[R650R]

Don't be buying cheap ass gear and pissing around with plastic bags or whatever.

Start with merino base layer. Seriously this shit is worth paying $$$ for, its not some hipster greenie eco tech, just good old fashioned stuff that works. As a plus you can wear it under textiles in summer to help them breath and not get hot either.
Decent gloves, boots and wool socks. Tourmaster Synergy heated (proper thick leather with feel still so don't often need to be plugged in.) Gaerne Adventure boots, waterproof.
RST Adventure II textile jacket and pants, tested on the road several times now in massive downpours, 100% waterproof except when you forget to zip the jacket to pants!!!! (excellent NZ warranty service on previous paragon RST gear too)
With all the liners installed I usually just wear my merino and t shirt underneath. If its REAL damn cold eg about zero ish I'll put one or two old freezing works wool shirts on singlets over top of t shirt too and toasty as.

Done the helmet balaclava thing before and pritch is right, its puts you out a size on your helmet even with good thin one (Oxford). In future of I buiy one of those again I might get a second winter only helmet with it.
I've found that by the time my head is getting cold I'm needing tos top for coffee or gas anyway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8kp3lEM6WM

[Moise]

I can believe wearing a balaclava inside a helmet will compress the liner. One winter, I wore thin, silk gloves inside a pair of gloves, and they always felt loose after that.

Sent from somewhere using Tapatalk

[avimistry]

Heat is lost through your head/neck, hands, and feet first:

-Balaclava + fleece neck warmer
-Those white surgical-type, latex-free gloves as under gloves (a pain to get on, and works best on shorter rides under 60min as it can get a lil sweaty.. but it works)
-Long socks and short socks + waterproof boots(goes without saying, but having the added WP membrane helps keep the wind out)

For the limbs and torso you just gotta be smart about your layering. Thermals, windproof sweater/hoodie as midlayer, etc. Keep it snug together as you want to minimize wind getting under/between the layers, and not blow up like a baloon. The plastic waterproof oversuits (1 or 2 pc) act as an additional wind barrier.

I haven't tried it but recently thought of it, hot water bottle under midlayer.

[russd7]

its not rocket science. people tend to over think things.

my riding attire for winter singlet, brushed cotton shirt and if its really cold (frosty) i may wear a jersey or swazi top and then my bike jacket, and on the lower half is jocks and jeans and riding trou and if its really cold and i can find them i wear my possum fur socks otherwise its just me work socks. gloves are a pair i bought in rotorua back in 2001 but i do always carry a spare pair in case they get wet. i do have pussy grips on the zzr but find them utterly useless unless i put elephant gloves on the bike which i have only done a couple of times. i dont use a neck sock anymore tho i always carry it in the top box just in case.

if its a decent rain i chuck a pair of wet weather leggings over my riding trou and used to use a drizabone on top half till i lost it, bought a one piece wet weather suit once and wore it once before deciding it was a waste of money.
My definition of cold is somewhat different to a lot tho, all depends what one gets acclimatized to i guess

[avimistry]

Yeah, all depends on your tolerance for cold. I see riders all layered up, and I also see riders with a jacket, jeans, and the regular stuff. Unless the latter has heated base layers and are all toasty inside. Speaking of heated apparel, there are a number of brands doing base layers (bike powered or battery packs), and there's also the mid-to-outer layer stuff used by tradies (Milwaukee heated hoodie). I've never used any and don't really plan to any time soon. For one, these aren't cheap. I'd then rather invest in a top tier base layer (something like SharkSkin). Also, heated apparel are more suited for really long distance touring than commuting imo. But if you really want to go heated, then try the passive heated stuff first (microwave heat pads, etc).

[IronPawz]

Today I am going to by a marino top given they just keep coming up and my 5 layers under by jacket (the start of this thread) sounds like it could be less. Also my two layers of thermal leggings and jeans under pants seems off to so perhaps some of them. There is a decent Farmlands in town here to look at. I think I personally get cold easy (ever since I lived in Sydney for nearly five years).

But trust me on the hottie those things WORK LIKE A CHARM when it is really cold.

As the for the helmet I almost always wear my macpac hoodie up under my helmet and not feel there is an issue between it in and out. I've had that helmet for to many KMs now so need to replace it. Starting another whole area to research being a good helmet (mmm another thread.. must have been done to death that one surely).

Probably come to a conclusion on this thread personally so THANKS to everyone who added great advice (especially JellyWrestler because you said something that sparked my hottie test and that was totally worth knowing).

Stay warm out there however you do it being cold is a bad idea and not much fun. Op shops are the excellent option for ppl on a budget because old ladies love to be warm also so they are generally well stocked with good thermal layers for nex ta nix.

[Maha]

A wool lined oil skin vest or jacket will kept it all out, and for a lot less than you'll pay for a top of line jacket.
Doing it this way, you can have a decent leather jacket all year round without the extra outlay of a decent winter jacket worth between $600-1300.


http://www.farsouth.co.nz/oilskin-vest-nz

[Big Dog]

I used to dick around with neck socks but find a buff and a beard work much better.

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[Maha]

I used to dick around with neck socks but find a buff and a beard work much better.

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My homemade neck warmer is a beanie with a hole cut in the top.

[Big Dog]

My homemade neck warmer is a beanie with a hole cut in the top.
Lol. I found some 3 for $3 thin cotton imitation buffs at a $1 shop.
Much cheaper than beanies. I have 2 fleece ones somewhere that started life as 1 i bought at a safety shop but it was too thick and not wind proof so I cut it in half and had a silk scarf sewn in to each half. 100% wind proof.
Only trouble is it makes such a perfect seal pin lock fogs up.
Just the beard works above 5. Beard and thin buff do the trick at anything above -2.

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[Big Dog]

A wool lined oil skin vest or jacket will kept it all out, and for a lot less than you'll pay for a top of line jacket.
Doing it this way, you can have a decent leather jacket all year round without the extra outlay of a decent winter jacket worth between $600-1300.


http://www.farsouth.co.nz/oilskin-vest-nz
I couldn't find an oil skin that ticked all the boxes so I went with one of these: http://www.trademe.co.nz/1138450266
Ticks all the boxes and works a treat.
Fits over my leather jacket.
100 wind proof.
Has exterior pockets.
Keeps the core dry if it rains.

Surprisingly warmer than wearing a long sleeved merino and a wool jersey... but I could wear those as well if the temp dropped.

Might have a gander at your link when next in charge of a spare hundy...

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[Moi]

I've read all through this thread - IMHO, one of the better reads on KB - and so many have said merino is the answer.

I must have be doing something wrong... while I was still working I used to wear a polyprop short-sleeved t-shirt under all of the other gear. Bought some merino and found that it always felt cold on the skin as opposed to the polyprop which as soon as I put it on I'd feel warm, so the merino is in the bottom drawer and the polyprop is still in use. Never worked it out... Perhaps someone here might have a suggestion or two, as would like to use the merino t-shirts rather than have them hiding in a dark drawer...

Thanks.

[IronPawz]

A wool lined oil skin vest or jacket will kept it all out, and for a lot less than you'll pay for a top of line jacket.
Doing it this way, you can have a decent leather jacket all year round without the extra outlay of a decent winter jacket worth between $600-1300.


http://www.farsouth.co.nz/oilskin-vest-nz

Actually they look good. Makes me want to ask another question. Is leather warm compared to standard type jackets. I'd imagine they are harder generally to get a few additional layers under them (assuming tight fit). Still with a layer like that listed above would it be say warmer, less so or similar?

[Maha]

Actually they look good. Makes me want to ask another question. Is leather warm compared to standard type jackets. I'd imagine they are harder generally to get a few additional layers under them (assuming tight fit). Still with a layer like that listed above would it be say warmer, less so or similar?

Leather is colder than textile but with an over jacket/vest sweet as. Perfect during the warmer months, in fact a leather jacket with vent zips even better. For the colder months though it is each to their own and some can spend a tremendous amount of trying to keep warm (heated this and that, warming up torso/hands/bum etc) when the answer is a much less strain on the wallet. Yes a vest is warm/rain proof. I wore one for a number of years, it got extremely wet at times but I stayed dry, zero wind chill is a bonus. I sold it in 2014 when I didn't ride for that year.

When buying though, try it first with your riding gear on.
Unfortunately, winter gloves are generally bulky. I rode last winter in summer gloves because my bike had hand guards and the hands didn't get cold at all.

[Big Dog]

I've read all through this thread - IMHO, one of the better reads on KB - and so many have said merino is the answer.

I must have be doing something wrong... while I was still working I used to wear a polyprop short-sleeved t-shirt under all of the other gear. Bought some merino and found that it always felt cold on the skin as opposed to the polyprop which as soon as I put it on I'd feel warm, so the merino is in the bottom drawer and the polyprop is still in use. Never worked it out... Perhaps someone here might have a suggestion or two, as would like to use the merino t-shirts rather than have them hiding in a dark drawer...

Thanks.
I find merino (like most wool) is not warm at first.
It takes a few days wear to get rid of the manufacturers smoothness and for the fibres to do their thing.

If you only wash sparingly and with will wash easily the measure of polypropylene and warmer when not actually moving much such as in a bike.

The big differences I find are:
How cold and wet you feel when both fabrics are wet.
If you haven't washed the lanolin out wool is water resistent if not proof.

And how they smell after wearing them all day. Polypropylene stinks of sweat where unless you use laundry powder on then merino just smells like merino.


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[MrMarko]

Fairings... freeze my bloodey nuts off on the enduro.

[BlackSheepLogic]

Leather is colder than textile but with an over jacket/vest sweet as. Perfect during the warmer months, in fact a leather jacket Yes a vest is warm/rain proof. I wore one for a number of years, it got extremely wet at times but I stayed dry, zero wind chill is a bonus.

When I had my leathers made I got a removable waterproof vest with double sided fleece made for the jacket. Works well.

[Maha]

When I had my leathers made I got a removable waterproof vest with double sided fleece made for the jacket. Works well.

Now that's forward thinking :niceone:

[nzspokes]

Don't be buying cheap ass gear and pissing around with plastic bags or whatever.

Start with merino base layer. Seriously this shit is worth paying $$$ for, its not some hipster greenie eco tech, just good old fashioned stuff that works. As a plus you can wear it under textiles in summer to help them breath and not get hot either.
Decent gloves, boots and wool socks. Tourmaster Synergy heated (proper thick leather with feel still so don't often need to be plugged in.) Gaerne Adventure boots, waterproof.
RST Adventure II textile jacket and pants, tested on the road several times now in massive downpours, 100% waterproof except when you forget to zip the jacket to pants!!!! (excellent NZ warranty service on previous paragon RST gear too)
With all the liners installed I usually just wear my merino and t shirt underneath. If its REAL damn cold eg about zero ish I'll put one or two old freezing works wool shirts on singlets over top of t shirt too and toasty as.

Done the helmet balaclava thing before and pritch is right, its puts you out a size on your helmet even with good thin one (Oxford). In future of I buiy one of those again I might get a second winter only helmet with it.
I've found that by the time my head is getting cold I'm needing tos top for coffee or gas anyway.



I like that jacket and my Revit one is falling apart. But think I can find a shop with them in stock....:wacko:

[granstar]

I use Torso a pre polyprop freezing works singlet (made for peeps working in freezers) Dualfold which has 70% wool under winter clothes (T shirt and a polar fleece top).

Gloves inner merino gloves

Helmet nothin, I like the fresh air, smell of cow shit and KFC (both similar things I would not eat), it keeps me awake.

Boots if really cold a pair of thin airline socks under normal wear work socks

Draggin ( kevlar) jeans with the inserts out under the bike pants but can get quite hot with these on.

No heated bike bits but use cheap plastic over lever guards to keep the wind off my fingers which Is only place I feel the cold.

Often I will put my wet gear on in dry riding as it lowers the wind chill considerably.

[IronPawz]

On the weekend I got a merino long sleeve top from Ice Breaker in Otaki. I wore it most of the weekend and it was bloody warm (no biking involved). If I started to do something I was quickly in just that with the sleeves rolled up and still warm. In the end I sweated in it so in the wash never got to try it on the bike. I've hopes though i can loose a few layers with that on and it will not cook me (everyone else seems fine).

So I will give it a go. It was listed as $62 but at the till it was $50? There where tee shirts but at $60 for a tee shirt and $62 (so I thought) for the long sleeve I could not bring myself to buy one.

For that really really cold day commute though. I am still going to use the hottie it was just so good on that test frosty ride. It is getting notably warmer now mind. There are buds on the trees and calves wandering paddocks. The seasons is switching and so I am loosing layers now anyway.

Maybe I need a cold day bike with fairings and a seat warmer. I am sure the wife will be fine with that.

[Big Dog]

There is normally a cold snap last week of August and or first week of September but yes, spring is nearly here.

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[granstar]

Why is there in my head a mental picture of someone walking into a bar and asking " fill this please" while handing over a hottie :wacko:

Fleece tops...fine for stealing off lines is cheaper than buying them ...apparently :facepalm:

[R650R]

I like that jacket and my Revit one is falling apart. But think I can find a shop with them in stock....:wacko:

Got mine through Erikkson Honda in bay View, Napier.

[old slider]

Why is there in my head a mental picture of someone walking into a bar and asking " fill this please" while handing over a hottie :wacko:

Fleece tops...fine for stealing off lines is cheaper than buying them ...apparently :facepalm:

The funniest thing I seen out fly camping on a SAR exercise many moons ago was an empty hot water bottle laying next to a guys sleeping bag, I remarked that he was pharking keen filling that up, as the nearest water source was a good climb down and then back up from the ridge we were camped on.

He laughed and replied I hate climbing out of my bag in the middle of the night, stubbing cold toes and trying to have a pee whilst shivering crazily, it starts to get cold early morning so it fulfils two purposes . :msn-wink:

Sorry, better get back on topic.

[IronPawz]

The funniest thing I seen out fly camping on a SAR exercise many moons ago was an empty hot water bottle laying next to a guys sleeping bag, I remarked that he was pharking keen filling that up, as the nearest water source was a good climb down and then back up from the ridge we were camped on.

He laughed and replied I hate climbing out of my bag in the middle of the night, stubbing cold toes and trying to have a pee whilst shivering crazily, it starts to get cold early morning so it fulfils two purposes . :msn-wink:

Sorry, better get back on topic.

I think that is relevant enough. Half way home I often feel like a leak and I am generally only cold on the last part of the trip...