Honda Fireblade - do I have water in the tank?

[IronPawz]

I'd say this one is easy. My 2015 Blade (53,000kms) gets ridden rain, hail and shin to work and is showing issues that would seem water in tank to me.

Flutters at times particularly when coming out of a good lean (not many on my ride but one particular good spot after a hard lean it really fluttered for a bit) or at times having sat at constant speed then accelerated.

I was thinking I bet that is water in the float bowls, then I realized it is fuel injected so does that even apply? Surely a blade at a skant 53k would not have any real issues? I've filled it up on rainy days where water might get in during the fueling. Always been serviced at City Honda (Palmy great shop always liked them).

Then on the ride home Friday just gone I got pulled over because my main headlight was out (grateful to be pulled over good on you officer). It was gone for high and low beam so I am yet to look at that. It has fluttered a bit steadily worse over a week or two (hard to tell initially - was that a miss... no cannot be we are barely run in).

Can I add kero to my RR like I did to my F650 ages back? I kind of thing NO NOT THE RR drain the... no carbies! Shizer what do you do with fuel injection bikes, just drain the tank only?

Cheers any with comments.

[Laava]

Take the tank off, drain it then rinse with a cup of meths and dry. Done

[MrMarko]

No need to drain just throw one capful of meths in the tank and the water will mix through with the fuel.

Whats the service history like, coming off lean and getting on the power being such a new bike you've really put some k's on her well done... but shes definately needing some new plugs by now if you havnt lately.

[MrMarko]

Is 53,000km accurate or a typo, you also said barely run in?

In regards to filling in rain that typically isnt how the tanks get water in them, quite often it comes in with the fuel from the gas stations tanks.

Seems very strange for such a new bike... with the headlight going out and the accelerating after holding speed it makes me think it could be as simple as a loose battery connection causing spikes in the system... worth checking.

[jasonu]

Give it a full tune up.

[nzspokes]

Is 53,000km accurate or a typo, you also said barely run in?

In regards to filling in rain that typically isnt how the tanks get water in them, quite often it comes in with the fuel from the gas stations tanks.

Seems very strange for such a new bike... with the headlight going out and the accelerating after holding speed it makes me think it could be as simple as a loose battery connection causing spikes in the system... worth checking.

To be fair its sounding like a rectifier fault. Being a Honda and all.....

[OddDuck]

Another possibility is an earthing fault. Metal to metal connections, water getting in... most of the system is 12V (nominal) and it won't take much corrosion to interrupt or reduce that, particularly at high currents.

[hayd3n]

cleaned out my tank with MEK it worked a treat, you can actually see the mek mixing with water,,
also look for the in tank filter could be full of crap,
when were the plugs last changed?

[Metastable]

I don't think it's water in the tank. Fuel floats on top of water. You would have gone through the water by now, the water level wouldn't have kept increasing (you mention the bike is getting worse). Also, at a lean, the water would swoosh further away, so it should be better coming out of a corner. You can check the battery connection, but IMO if it were loose, you would have a hard time starting the bike every once in a while (it would feel like if you're trying to start it with the ignition off) ..... so I don't think it's that either.

Is the front headlight in any way related to something in the ignition? I.e. -> do they share a relay or something along those lines? It could be unrelated. Take a look at the wiring diagram and think about it for a bit.

How is your air filter? How are your spark plugs looking? Is the bike running a touch rich? Too much fuel, not enough air? Have you done a valve clearance check recently?

Not sure about the rectifier - maybe, I don't have much experience with them.

I hope you get it sorted.

[actungbaby]

I'd say this one is easy. My 2015 Blade (53,000kms) gets ridden rain, hail and shin to work and is showing issues that would seem water in tank to me.

Flutters at times particularly when coming out of a good lean (not many on my ride but one particular good spot after a hard lean it really fluttered for a bit) or at times having sat at constant speed then accelerated.

I was thinking I bet that is water in the float bowls, then I realized it is fuel injected so does that even apply? Surely a blade at a skant 53k would not have any real issues? I've filled it up on rainy days where water might get in during the fueling. Always been serviced at City Honda (Palmy great shop always liked them).

Then on the ride home Friday just gone I got pulled over because my main headlight was out (grateful to be pulled over good on you officer). It was gone for high and low beam so I am yet to look at that. It has fluttered a bit steadily worse over a week or two (hard to tell initially - was that a miss... no cannot be we are barely run in).

Can I add kero to my RR like I did to my F650 ages back? I kind of thing NO NOT THE RR drain the... no carbies! Shizer what do you do with fuel injection bikes, just drain the tank only?

Cheers any with comments.

you want a hand with it pm me i live in palmerston north too am just expericed ametuer good to know have another local on here

need hand with any maintence ditto the guys and girls at city honda are good so you chould just ring them and ask. or drop in.

doesint sound like recifer i had thse go on my old vfr 1990 and my cbr 900rr 1997 it starts as not wanting to start .

when gets real bad the battery gets low its like cuts out or stops at idle till it be to dangerous to ride. oh wait on thats the stator.

but yeah i give the air fliter a clean with air i have a comprssor but the spark plugs check whould be good.

I dont have any long spark plug spockets . i never check my bikes for that reson and being lazy ;-)

I have my cbr 900 rr engine out the bike if you want a look and can show you few ideas how bikes work.

[Drew]

I'm gonna bet a chocolate fish that it's rust in the tank.

Empty the tank completely by taking off the fuel pump. Put it back on then fill it with white vinegar. Leave that for a day or two. Drain that the same as the fuel. Mix some baking soda and water, wash the vinegar out with that. Drain , let it dry, and you're off.

[actungbaby]

I'm gonna bet a chocolate fish that it's rust in the tank.

Empty the tank completely by taking off the fuel pump. Put it back on then fill it with white vinegar. Leave that for a day or two. Drain that the same as the fuel. Mix some baking soda and water, wash the vinegar out with that. Drain , let it dry, and you're off.

All i know drew choclate fish cant swim ;-) learnt alot in this thread if you got real old bike they say get fish tank gravel swish that around.

all i know guys at my job in chch treated inside my tank on my old dunger xl 100 k2 which was dire for rust flakes and had similar

smytoms and still good 3 0 plus years later rest bike knacked but the tank great ;-) bit like me

[Drew]

All i know drew choclate fish cant swim ;-) learnt alot in this thread if you got real old bike they say get fish tank gravel swish that around.

all i know guys at my job in chch treated inside my tank on my old dunger xl 100 k2 which was dire for rust flakes and had similar

smytoms and still good 3 0 plus years later rest bike knacked but the tank great ;-) bit like me
The vinegar trick works, I've done it a couple times. And ya don't end up with dirt in your tank.

[AllanB]

I don't see why a 2015 blade with 53,000 kms would have rust in the tank. Generally this takes some years to form.


If you post on kms is correct you've run up a Hitcher impressive mileage since purchase - maybe due to the high number of refuels you have done it has accumulated some water in the bottom of the tank? pop in a cup of meths (not kero!). This should clear any water.

I suspect it is not water as noted earlier you'd have cleared it. Check servicing records - plugs on the Hondas are due when? every 24,000? If so has it had a recent set?

[Drew]

I don't see why a 2015 blade with 53,000 kms would have rust in the tank. Generally this takes some years to form.


If you post on kms is correct you've run up a Hitcher impressive mileage since purchase - maybe due to the high number of refuels you have done it has accumulated some water in the bottom of the tank? pop in a cup of meths (not kero!). This should clear any water.

I suspect it is not water as noted earlier you'd have cleared it. Check servicing records - plugs on the Hondas are due when? every 24,000? If so has it had a recent set?I had to replace the pump and remove a lot of rust from a mate's blade tank. That's why I'm betting the fish.

[Katman]

Meths in the tank might work for a tiny amount of water (maybe up to a teaspoons worth) but if you've got a significant amount in there you're wasting your time with meths.

[AllanB]

I had to replace the pump and remove a lot of rust from a mate's blade tank. That's why I'm betting the fish.

Fair call. Bit shit on a late model ride though. Mind modern tanks often have low points that the fuel pump does not collect from so water could naturally settle there.

[AllanB]

I had to replace the pump and remove a lot of rust from a mate's blade tank. That's why I'm betting the fish.

Fair call. Bit shit on a late model ride though. Mind modern tanks often have low points that the fuel pump does not collect from so water could naturally settle there.


I owned a Kawasaki for 23 years - I always popped a half cup of meths in the tank on the first of each month - no rust. Ditto with the Honda I had for 8 years. Ducati has a plastic tank, no chance of rust ....

[spanner spinner]

as per earlier reply check the charge voltage, all the symptoms you have described can be caused by under or over voltage and 53000 km is about right for the reg rec to give up. Also the fact that the headlight has blown i would be checking this first to rule it out as a high charge voltage usually takes the headlight bulb out first. There is limited overvoltage protection for the ecu in this model so it would pay to check.

[Bass]

Iso propyl alcohol will get rid of any amount of water.
May not run too well if there's major amounts of water in there but an amount of this alcohol equal to or more than the amount of water present will make it completely miscible with petrol.

[jasonu]

I'm gonna bet a chocolate fish that it's rust in the tank.

Empty the tank completely by taking off the fuel pump. Put it back on then fill it with white vinegar. Leave that for a day or two. Drain that the same as the fuel. Mix some baking soda and water, wash the vinegar out with that. Drain , let it dry, and you're off.

Did your Gran Pappy teach you that one?

[Drew]

Did your Gran Pappy teach you that one?

Had to Google it for a mate's race bike actually. The other trick to remove crap, rather than gravel, use ice. Then let it melt and tip out the water with the crap. Genius!

[Jeff Sichoe]

Throttle Position Sensor not fucked?

[nzspokes]

as per earlier reply check the charge voltage, all the symptoms you have described can be caused by under or over voltage and 53000 km is about right for the reg rec to give up. Also the fact that the headlight has blown i would be checking this first to rule it out as a high charge voltage usually takes the headlight bulb out first. There is limited overvoltage protection for the ecu in this model so it would pay to check.

Yerp, its got the symptoms.

[IronPawz]

No need to drain just throw one capful of meths in the tank and the water will mix through with the fuel.

Whats the service history like, coming off lean and getting on the power being such a new bike you've really put some k's on her well done... but shes definately needing some new plugs by now if you havnt lately.

Thanks

First new bike I have taken it to Cityhonda every 10,000kms and they have serviced it. I do about 750kms a week between Kapiti and Wellington plus its done about 7 open days (three in Taupo) been on various rides about but not many most of the ownership has been through Winter. Got a great deal on it from Cyclespot at the time well under typical new price. First few rides I was laughing uncontrollably from the talk just doing a minor crank from 100. It is great to commute on once the back adjusts.

So plugs got done with at least one service. Probably start doing them myself now its over 50ks

[IronPawz]

Is 53,000km accurate or a typo, you also said barely run in?

In regards to filling in rain that typically isnt how the tanks get water in them, quite often it comes in with the fuel from the gas stations tanks.

Seems very strange for such a new bike... with the headlight going out and the accelerating after holding speed it makes me think it could be as simple as a loose battery connection causing spikes in the system... worth checking.

Good point I will check. 53,000 is not typo and 'just run in' is more a Honda goes for ever comment. I've not noticed the issue in the ride in and back today so perhaps it also cleared? I'll check the leads. Brought a new bulb to put in, forgot to bring it home, will put it in tomorrow.

I average 40,000kms per year getting to work. I've not once regretted the commute or thought I'd rather live in town. Even in the smashing rain. I'm looking forward to the run before I leave both sides (ok a lot more if it is dry and warm).

[IronPawz]

To be fair its sounding like a rectifier fault. Being a Honda and all.....

Would that stop happening at times? If it is something loose I can see it would do that. It gets two one hour rides five days a week. It kind of got worse for a bit, then it was badish for a day (especially when it got on an actual angle for a change) and not it seems fine (been riding on high beam until I fit new light).

[IronPawz]

I don't think it's water in the tank. Fuel floats on top of water. You would have gone through the water by now, the water level wouldn't have kept increasing (you mention the bike is getting worse). Also, at a lean, the water would swoosh further away, so it should be better coming out of a corner. You can check the battery connection, but IMO if it were loose, you would have a hard time starting the bike every once in a while (it would feel like if you're trying to start it with the ignition off) ..... so I don't think it's that either.

Is the front headlight in any way related to something in the ignition? I.e. -> do they share a relay or something along those lines? It could be unrelated. Take a look at the wiring diagram and think about it for a bit.

How is your air filter? How are your spark plugs looking? Is the bike running a touch rich? Too much fuel, not enough air? Have you done a valve clearance check recently?

Not sure about the rectifier - maybe, I don't have much experience with them.

I hope you get it sorted.

Thanks I will look through the electrics but it does seem to have cleared (at least today). I played with a black busa today on the way in and didn't notice any issues at all clicking along. Honda service it each time so it has got whatever the service history is so it got plugs at one point. I've been told by the shop and others valve clearance when checked don't move and are not worth doing but I'd be interested in an opinion or two there for a CBR1000RR with very regular riding.

[IronPawz]

you want a hand with it pm me i live in palmerston north too am just expericed ametuer good to know have another local on here

need hand with any maintence ditto the guys and girls at city honda are good so you chould just ring them and ask. or drop in.

doesint sound like recifer i had thse go on my old vfr 1990 and my cbr 900rr 1997 it starts as not wanting to start .

when gets real bad the battery gets low its like cuts out or stops at idle till it be to dangerous to ride. oh wait on thats the stator.

but yeah i give the air fliter a clean with air i have a comprssor but the spark plugs check whould be good.

I dont have any long spark plug spockets . i never check my bikes for that reson and being lazy ;-)

I have my cbr 900 rr engine out the bike if you want a look and can show you few ideas how bikes work.

That is a bloody nice offer thanks a lot. I think, thinking about it I got some gas from a different place a few times in there (newlands when running really low coming out of town) and used their 95 verses my normal 98. I wonder if they just have water in their gas. If it doesnt come back I'll say it has cleared otherwise I might do. Nice one. Yeah I like City Honda they are miles better than motormart (no comparison at all).

[IronPawz]

I'm gonna bet a chocolate fish that it's rust in the tank.

Empty the tank completely by taking off the fuel pump. Put it back on then fill it with white vinegar. Leave that for a day or two. Drain that the same as the fuel. Mix some baking soda and water, wash the vinegar out with that. Drain , let it dry, and you're off.

Poor girl is only less than two years old. It just gets high KM's. Tank gets filled every second day normally through the week (might eek out three occasionally in bad weather). Can they rust that fast?

[IronPawz]

I had to replace the pump and remove a lot of rust from a mate's blade tank. That's why I'm betting the fish.

Just gassed myself looking in the tank with a torch. From what I can see there is no rust at all. Looks like new in there. But I can only see some parts. Godz how to people huff petrol! I like the smell but a few seconds in there is more than enough!

[IronPawz]

Meths in the tank might work for a tiny amount of water (maybe up to a teaspoons worth) but if you've got a significant amount in there you're wasting your time with meths.

OK that is a lot of thumbs for some meths so I'll put a bit in with the next tank tomorrow. A cup in a tank seems the formula. It does seem to have cleared and I did get gas (when I think about it) in some places I don't generally so a little will not hurt. Perhaps I should run a cup through every few months given the KMs I do just to keep it clear? Is it in any way bad for the bike to do a little before it builds up? Or given it sinks would you not expect it to build up?

[IronPawz]

Fair call. Bit shit on a late model ride though. Mind modern tanks often have low points that the fuel pump does not collect from so water could naturally settle there.

right that is what I was thinking. I bet its at a level and when it goes over, or a bit of spirited riding at times sloshes it up. That's it I'm giving it some meths though it does seem to have cleared.

[IronPawz]

as per earlier reply check the charge voltage, all the symptoms you have described can be caused by under or over voltage and 53000 km is about right for the reg rec to give up. Also the fact that the headlight has blown i would be checking this first to rule it out as a high charge voltage usually takes the headlight bulb out first. There is limited overvoltage protection for the ecu in this model so it would pay to check.

I'm a twat for adding details this far in but I've noted at times the idle seems less consistent (not always and goes back further than this recent issue which did not occur at all today). Just it used to be perrrfect and not sometimes I note it is a little up and down.

Crap I might just pussy out and take it to the shop (excuse for day off and ride to P/N). Last time they didnt have back break pads in and it needs some also, they where going to fit them for free given unusually not in stock. They can check the rec there. I do have a volt meter so might have a wee look tomorrow if I get ready early for a change.

[nzspokes]

Would that stop happening at times? If it is something loose I can see it would do that. It gets two one hour rides five days a week. It kind of got worse for a bit, then it was badish for a day (especially when it got on an actual angle for a change) and not it seems fine (been riding on high beam until I fit new light).

It can be bouncing the charge all over the place.

[actungbaby]

Meths in the tank might work for a tiny amount of water (maybe up to a teaspoons worth) but if you've got a significant amount in there you're wasting your time with meths.

Plus your got drain though muslin cloth so you wont go blind ;-) i think that bs by the way not that tryed .

I know got some in my mouth petrol dam is it nasty yuk wont be trying that again

[actungbaby]

That is a bloody nice offer thanks a lot. I think, thinking about it I got some gas from a different place a few times in there (newlands when running really low coming out of town) and used their 95 verses my normal 98. I wonder if they just have water in their gas. If it doesnt come back I'll say it has cleared otherwise I might do. Nice one. Yeah I like City Honda they are miles better than motormart (no comparison at all).

Thats great to hear mate yeah nice people all right yes the petrol stations get they tanks checked seen guy comes along got this

Like messuring stick and can get water out somehow quite trick asked him but went cross eyed when he explained .

Girl from garage was checking it the other day . i dont think of any concern keep it checked.

The old old school garages have steel tanks and after 20 years or so dig them up replace them cause rust on outside .

When built garage at pns they have like fibre glass or such like tanks know am guessing alot less condesation from cold steel

tanks in winter. your blade be sweet bike all that hot running way better than stop start city riding only few kms

Ever litre petrol so much water vapour gets produced and if like me just ride to shops it can sit in the muffler

dont know if you notiched cars water driping on road in winter hard case also see vapour when its winter.till exhust is hot enough.

[actungbaby]

I'm a twat for adding details this far in but I've noted at times the idle seems less consistent (not always and goes back further than this recent issue which did not occur at all today). Just it used to be perrrfect and not sometimes I note it is a little up and down.

Crap I might just pussy out and take it to the shop (excuse for day off and ride to P/N). Last time they didnt have back break pads in and it needs some also, they where going to fit them for free given unusually not in stock. They can check the rec there. I do have a volt meter so might have a wee look tomorrow if I get ready early for a change.

I think they put you right buddy you can get non oem of ebay cheap as chips not sure what honda ones cost. i replaced two on my vfr and 900rr

standred one didint have heat fins on from memory where they sit on outside rear sub frame on my 90,s bike tucked under

by the seat so get cooled from air flowing through. 90,s honda know for it at 50 k mark not sure modern ones.

to me friendly attitude is everthing always gone to those honda dealers . actually seen guy that was parts guy at co op honda way back in 80,s

In pammy at local fish n chip shop was nice to think still kicking around he gave me a nod and thought shit still remembered me i must look accent. lol

[Banditbandit]

Iso propyl alcohol will get rid of any amount of water.


Where do you get Iso-prop from? How much can you get? Can you get us a 44 gallon drum? How much?

[IronPawz]

I'm starting to like crapping on here its a bloody funny place full of bike loving nutters. So bike has been running fine. I brought some meths today and with about 2 liters in the tank I put two cap fulls in and rocked it about then filled it up and rode off. It did splutter for a second after about 30 seconds and once more after a spirited lean for a moment (not really before in 3 hours of riding or since in about 45 minutes). So unless it keeps turning up I am calling to water and leaving the electrics alone unless it keeps on.

So question is a couple of cap fulls of meths (I can imagine the key word sweeps getting excited so I am throwing in precursor and amphetamine at no extra cost) good in this way. The comment about tanks not fully getting empty makes sense, you get on a lean and that little pipe now tips over and picks up that low water below empty (I never generally get below 1 liter left). Clearly if it is water some has gone through so it is the below the pickup level if any is left.

Or is it I should put like a cup full in on a full tank? Once a month as suggest (this makes sense). Is meths in any way back for a modern bike?

I see there is a new blade coming out soon... Probably not have the Kat sorted this side of more personal time so I might solve all issues that way. Still that is 2017 and it is covered in electrics (yuk I don't even have ABS I'd rather have to ride it myself) https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2016/april/exclusive-honda-fireblade-confirmed-for-2017

Electric everything, sounds shirt.

[Bass]

Where do you get Iso-prop from? How much can you get? Can you get us a 44 gallon drum? How much?

You want it on a plate, don't you?

The place I work uses large amounts as a "spray everywhere and it evaporates" antiseptic for places that are hard to clean. We usually have 2 or 3 x 200 liter drums of the stuff. I will find out how much and from where and get back to you.

There may be restrictions on it as i think it's popular with P labs - you don't have a profitable sideline going do you?

[hayd3n]

I'm starting to like crapping on here its a bloody funny place full of bike loving nutters. So bike has been running fine. I brought some meths today and with about 2 liters in the tank I put two cap fulls in and rocked it about then filled it up and rode off. It did splutter for a second after about 30 seconds and once more after a spirited lean for a moment (not really before in 3 hours of riding or since in about 45 minutes). So unless it keeps turning up I am calling to water and leaving the electrics alone unless it keeps on.

So question is a couple of cap fulls of meths (I can imagine the key word sweeps getting excited so I am throwing in precursor and amphetamine at no extra cost) good in this way. The comment about tanks not fully getting empty makes sense, you get on a lean and that little pipe now tips over and picks up that low water below empty (I never generally get below 1 liter left). Clearly if it is water some has gone through so it is the below the pickup level if any is left.

Or is it I should put like a cup full in on a full tank? Once a month as suggest (this makes sense). Is meths in any way back for a modern bike?

I see there is a new blade coming out soon... Probably not have the Kat sorted this side of more personal time so I might solve all issues that way. Still that is 2017 and it is covered in electrics (yuk I don't even have ABS I'd rather have to ride it myself) https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2016/april/exclusive-honda-fireblade-confirmed-for-2017

Electric everything, sounds shirt.

try mixing meths in a cup with water and see what happens,

[MrMarko]

I'll take the chocolate fish now drew. :woohoo:

[Banditbandit]

There may be restrictions on it as i think it's popular with P labs - you don't have a profitable sideline going do you?

No - not a P-Lab ..

[Bass]

So question is a couple of cap fulls of meths (I can imagine the key word sweeps getting excited so I am throwing in precursor and amphetamine at no extra cost) good in this way. .

Methylated spirits is mostly ethyl alcohol - the booze stuff. However it has a few percent of methyl alcohol added to make it undrinkable as the methyl stuff is poisonous. The resultant meths doesn't attract excise tax as a consequence.

Both ethyl and methyl alcohols are used as fuels. Ethyl is a direct petrol substitute and widely sold at up to 10% substitution. Methyl has a different stoichiometric ratio and if you are running big percentages, the mixture must be

substantially richened.

Ethyl alcohol is MUCH more tolerant of moisture than methyl - in fact very small water percentages will prevent methyl alcohol from mixing with petrol so it's as well that meths doesn't have much of it.

Ethyl should mix in a few percent of water OK but Isopropyl is much better.

If your bike is reasonably modern and is OK for fuels containing ethyl alcohol then meths will do no harm.

[Bass]

No - not a P-Lab ..

Private message sent - hope it helps - curious about what you are up to.

[Madness]

...curious about what you are up to.

Agreed. Come on Bandit, give us the good oil on what you're up to eh?

[Bass]

Seems I had the wrong end of the stick - right industry, wrong product - and a lot of tongue (in cheek)

[Banditbandit]

Methylated spirits is mostly ethyl alcohol - the booze stuff. However it has a few percent of methyl alcohol added to make it undrinkable as the methyl stuff is poisonous.

Pour it through a thick layer of bread ... like through the long ways of a bread roll ... then it's drinkable ...

[Banditbandit]

Agreed. Come on Bandit, give us the good oil on what you're up to eh?


'twas a joke .. enough people will understand. But no, I'm not up to anything ...

[MrMarko]

Damn i was hoping for some oil... <_<

[IronPawz]

try mixing meths in a cup with water and see what happens,

Woot a science like test! Love it I am going to go do that right now. Ahhh testing, evidence, reason... BRB.

[IronPawz]

try mixing meths in a cup with water and see what happens,

Right a wee bit (half as much as water) seemed to mix with half the water and sit on top but twice the amount as the water mixed both even like. So.. What is it like in petrol because I would think it needs to mix well in which case less would be available to find the water at the bottom. If the meths went to the bottom it would not help. So it would seem something like a cup full to a full tank to clear out little water (that line under the pipes that feed out petrol) might make sense but a few cap full in a full tank to clear out a few cap full or water would seem a stretch. I'd have to play about with more including some petrol but that would take more than my glass some meths and some water.

Still interesting test. Now what to do with the result? Sock in some paper and put it in the fire see what it does...

Interesting it burns absolutely fine. I think alcohol needs to be more like 60% to burn cleanly (not that my test was perfect) very interesting. Good suggestion.

[IronPawz]

Methylated spirits is mostly ethyl alcohol - the booze stuff. However it has a few percent of methyl alcohol added to make it undrinkable as the methyl stuff is poisonous. The resultant meths doesn't attract excise tax as a consequence.

Both ethyl and methyl alcohols are used as fuels. Ethyl is a direct petrol substitute and widely sold at up to 10% substitution. Methyl has a different stoichiometric ratio and if you are running big percentages, the mixture must be

substantially richened.

Ethyl alcohol is MUCH more tolerant of moisture than methyl - in fact very small water percentages will prevent methyl alcohol from mixing with petrol so it's as well that meths doesn't have much of it.

Ethyl should mix in a few percent of water OK but Isopropyl is much better.

If your bike is reasonably modern and is OK for fuels containing ethyl alcohol then meths will do no harm.

Excellent remarks. Interesting that at what seemed 50/50 (not perfect) mix with water it burnt so well As for Methyl is that like methanol and therefore evaporate at a lower temp (60 something degrees) verses Ethanol being higher (I think 80 something these are old memories) and therefore you could distill your Meths to get rid of it? That would seem like cheap booze to me (I'll stick to beer).

[IronPawz]

Agreed. Come on Bandit, give us the good oil on what you're up to eh?

People turn weed into oil with Iso. At least they did in my day. I use it (have tiny amount in little jar for years) to clean my mirrors from tape residue after track days. Soak week in Iso and evaporate Iso to leave oil.

[IronPawz]

As for the bike another over two hours of riding with no more glitches. I've replaced the bulb and it seems fine. So for now I just ride on.
I will however after reading this put say half a cup of meths through from time to time. Seeing as I now have a new bottle and all. As I rode with it down my jacket half way home I though, be extra good not to crash today (though the times I have done this with glass bottle of vodka made me think this even more so). Vodka bottle would be some pretty nasty accident companion (probably sterilise things well though).

[hayd3n]

People turn weed into oil with Iso. At least they did in my day. I use it (have tiny amount in little jar for years) to clean my mirrors from tape residue after track days. Soak week in Iso and evaporate Iso to leave oil.
ethanol works a treat tooo (well thats what they say )

[Bass]

Excellent remarks. Interesting that at what seemed 50/50 (not perfect) mix with water it burnt so well As for Methyl is that like methanol and therefore evaporate at a lower temp (60 something degrees) verses Ethanol being higher (I think 80 something these are old memories) and therefore you could distill your Meths to get rid of it? That would seem like cheap booze to me (I'll stick to beer).

Yes, you could distill off the methanol. Not sure about the dye that they also add to mark it as poison.

Your comments about what mix will burn is also the derivation of the term "proof spirit". Back in the day when sailors were issued a daily tot of rum, the captain was also responsible for the ships accounts. If he watered the crew's rum, he then had extra to sell on the side for a nice little earner. However, the crew devised a test - if the rum was poured on gunpowder and the gunpowder still burned, the rum was deemed proof spirit.

Proof spirit (or 100 proof as we call it today) turns out to be 50% ethanol.

I missed Madness' hint about "good oil" completely - thick as 2 short planks it seems and a chemical engineer to boot. No hope for me at all.

[Banditbandit]

People turn weed into oil with Iso. At least they did in my day. I use it (have tiny amount in little jar for years) to clean my mirrors from tape residue after track days. Soak week in Iso and evaporate Iso to leave oil.

You clean your mirror with cannabis oil?

[actungbaby]

Pour it through a thick layer of bread ... like through the long ways of a bread roll ... then it's drinkable ...

yeah heard the bread crumps u just reminded me oh yeah nahhhh is right to much meths me thinks

I always have mental picture dude stubing out a smoke and answering the phone quite line roger here ;-)

guess i dont like being told what to do . thats why where Motorcylist ;-) right and i quit smoking years ago

[actungbaby]

As for the bike another over two hours of riding with no more glitches. I've replaced the bulb and it seems fine. So for now I just ride on.
I will however after reading this put say half a cup of meths through from time to time. Seeing as I now have a new bottle and all. As I rode with it down my jacket half way home I though, be extra good not to crash today (though the times I have done this with glass bottle of vodka made me think this even more so). Vodka bottle would be some pretty nasty accident companion (probably sterilise things well though).

Noo you piss head lol i carried a bottle milk in my back back was coming back to holiday house parents rented in the sounds had to travel on the

anikawa road its like the port hills x 10 goes for miles . and way was half asleep . not concetrating all though i thought i was

18 years old wow .. got the front tire onto edge of the road gravel it slid i got her back on the tar it griped and flick me of .

spring up nothing like young body mine (then ) yanked bike up he gives f@## about your possible injuties as long the willie intact.)

then was white fluid driping down my face oh crap it must be brain injury after taken helmet of (shit you going have feild day with this)

phew i realised mum got me to get shoping thats why i was on this trip.

Nothing you mate if bottle sliped you do handstand of the handle bars to save the vodka .

yeah bad idea to have loose items on you its distration and they never good . exp guy from Anza ended up hitting back trailer

and set the trailer on fire and killed himself in the process count t0 3 seconds and thats all take and your history.

[actungbaby]

Right a wee bit (half as much as water) seemed to mix with half the water and sit on top but twice the amount as the water mixed both even like. So.. What is it like in petrol because I would think it needs to mix well in which case less would be available to find the water at the bottom. If the meths went to the bottom it would not help. So it would seem something like a cup full to a full tank to clear out little water (that line under the pipes that feed out petrol) might make sense but a few cap full in a full tank to clear out a few cap full or water would seem a stretch. I'd have to play about with more including some petrol but that would take more than my glass some meths and some water.

Still interesting test. Now what to do with the result? Sock in some paper and put it in the fire see what it does...

Interesting it burns absolutely fine. I think alcohol needs to be more like 60% to burn cleanly (not that my test was perfect) very interesting. Good suggestion.

i know its a shit to take pannels of and then the tank but might be easier just remove the dummy tank and take petrol tap of

and just empty the thing i can do this if you like and blow the comprssed air though the tank or if your at home just let evaporate out in the sun.

be carefull its the fumes not the lquid that is dangerous to have spark or static or god forbid open flame

[Drew]

i know its a shit to take pannels of and then the tank but might be easier just remove the dummy tank and take petrol tap of

and just empty the thing i can do this if you like and blow the comprssed air though the tank or if your at home just let evaporate out in the sun.

be carefull its the fumes not the lquid that is dangerous to have spark or static or god forbid open flame

There's no tap. Fuel pump has to be taken out the bottom. Fucken stupid Hondas.

[R650R]

On my GSXR the drain hose under tank cap is blocked. If left parked outside in decent rain the water collects and sits.
Doesn't enter your tank though until you open the cap and give it a chance to get past seal. Of course your not always looking directly at the cap so took me awhile to trace a similar fault.
After that I just put a plastic bag underneath an old tank bag when leaving it outside for long periods.

(yes I know I could fix this with blast of compressed air in hose)

Injected bike seems to cope with water though, had same ina carby four cylinder years ago and it barely ran at all.

Also once had a defective poorly fitting plug cap that gave similar random symptons to water in the tank

[actungbaby]

There's no tap. Fuel pump has to be taken out the bottom. Fucken stupid Hondas.

geez thats a improvment over my old dungers Hondas not. so pump direct to the tank that does seem werid.

Still i surpose where the tank is access to res main off whould be a pain in the butt.

[actungbaby]

On my GSXR the drain hose under tank cap is blocked. If left parked outside in decent rain the water collects and sits.
Doesn't enter your tank though until you open the cap and give it a chance to get past seal. Of course your not always looking directly at the cap so took me awhile to trace a similar fault.
After that I just put a plastic bag underneath an old tank bag when leaving it outside for long periods.

(yes I know I could fix this with blast of compressed air in hose)

Injected bike seems to cope with water though, had same ina carby four cylinder years ago and it barely ran at all.

Also once had a defective poorly fitting plug cap that gave similar random symptons to water in the tank

yeah never had injected bike no dicking around with choke always right idle must be good. injected under so many psi

whould do that . intresting info thanks

[AllanB]

geez thats a improvment over my old dungers Hondas not. so pump direct to the tank that does seem werid.

Still i surpose where the tank is access to res main off whould be a pain in the butt.

It's hardly unique to honda to have the pump within the tank. I think it is a matter of space on a lot of new bikes - there is a shit load of plumbing etc all crammed into as little space as possible.

[IronPawz]

Yes, you could distill off the methanol. Not sure about the dye that they also add to mark it as poison.

Your comments about what mix will burn is also the derivation of the term "proof spirit". Back in the day when sailors were issued a daily tot of rum, the captain was also responsible for the ships accounts. If he watered the crew's rum, he then had extra to sell on the side for a nice little earner. However, the crew devised a test - if the rum was poured on gunpowder and the gunpowder still burned, the rum was deemed proof spirit.

Proof spirit (or 100 proof as we call it today) turns out to be 50% ethanol.

I missed Madness' hint about "good oil" completely - thick as 2 short planks it seems and a chemical engineer to boot. No hope for me at all.

Right 50% will burn very good. I guess at around $10 for a liter of ethanol so pure I'm surprised it isn't distilled and called something like purple death, actually I remember there is already a purple death... coincidence? What have I been drinking in my youth!

[IronPawz]

You clean your mirror with cannabis oil?

When you put it like that it is no bloody wonder I cannot see behind. Must be following the first rule of Italian driving (come to think of it the revision mirrors on my past Ducati were completely pointless due to the vibrations). Canon ball run was onto something. If I remember the movie correctly "what is behind me is not important"

[IronPawz]

The bike is more than a 1000kms since the first post now and it is good as gold. I think mostly the water just went through over some good corners and various changes in speed. Finally the meths (only did a few cap full during one fill up) probably reduced anything remaining. I've had the bike well over and pushed it up and down speed wise with no further signs.

So it likely just built up or I had a bad fill (or little of A and B) and now back to good.

[hayd3n]

The bike is more than a 1000kms since the first post now and it is good as gold. I think mostly the water just went through over some good corners and various changes in speed. Finally the meths (only did a few cap full during one fill up) probably reduced anything remaining. I've had the bike well over and pushed it up and down speed wise with no further signs.

So it likely just built up or I had a bad fill (or little of A and B) and now back to good.

did you try mix some meths with water in a glass??

[actungbaby]

When you put it like that it is no bloody wonder I cannot see behind. Must be following the first rule of Italian driving (come to think of it the revision mirrors on my past Ducati were completely pointless due to the vibrations). Canon ball run was onto something. If I remember the movie correctly "what is behind me is not important"

while you at take the brake light bulbs just waste of current lol did i see today i was in my green pirimera you where on yellow and black

blade thought going to city honda going over the rangi bridge , why you just hold front axle with your hands nearly bent over there.

man up hehe save on front tire tread do wheelies as much as possible . my freaking honda vfr got a new battery and draining it again

piece of S@## opps lovley bike mind you got great power in mid oh feels like tractor lovley oh to be back two on 2 wheels

[Drew]

while you at take the brake light bulbs just waste of current lol did i see today i was in my green pirimera you where on yellow and black

blade thought going to city honda going over the rangi bridge , why you just hold front axle with your hands nearly bent over there.

man up hehe save on front tire tread do wheelies as much as possible . my freaking honda vfr got a new battery and draining it again

piece of S@## opps lovley bike mind you got great power in mid oh feels like tractor lovley oh to be back two on 2 wheels
Could you please slow down when typing. It's very hard to read sometimes.

A current draw when off can be a right bitch to find. Unplug the ignition switch and see if it still goes flat. If it does, the issue is the reg/rec or stator. If not...good luck.

[actungbaby]

Could you please slow down when typing. It's very hard to read sometimes.

A current draw when off can be a right bitch to find. Unplug the ignition switch and see if it still goes flat. If it does, the issue is the reg/rec or stator. If not...good luck.

Thanks drew i try that yeah for some reason the indicators not working or the horn checked a fuse okay thinking the winker relay box.

I know if one corner not conencted you dont get that tink tink from realay box. it has running lights being usa model in the indicators.

they light when flick left right running lights go out or press the centre off both go out. think might cause a drain there. trying all that.

bloody speedo stoped working too. eveerthing was fine year ago . have been dicking around with getting farings on and taking fairing

frame of and taking headlight out as broke plastic moutning points of brand new unit agghhhh .

Yes i typye fast as used to run a bbs back before intenet. and did typying at highh school. brain cant keep upall things want to get ut

Tough to explain waht in my head ;-) thanks mate got me down yesterday can be frustrating 1 step forward ten bcck sometimes.

Had kick myself and say get with program dont cry all a solution just going F@##$ i repalced the stator and craped itself again.

I brought a powerech smart battery maintence charger pluged it in left. for hour went back bike started again easy werid.

From getting it clicking to boom starting fine seems werid i hope just reg i replaced that too. 2 years ago.

I did try fit damaged headlight and pluged in the bulbs as the bike has headlights wired always on . which is a pain if

engine not ruuning . high current draw with indicators etch too. rear indicators are not working tryed the bulbs there fine

Might be short to the frame. ? dunno going out know when can see what am doing.

Thanks mate nice to get support been prick of time last 4 years with parents both going. family dont give shit weather alive or dead.

[actungbaby]

Could you please slow down when typing. It's very hard to read sometimes.

A current draw when off can be a right bitch to find. Unplug the ignition switch and see if it still goes flat. If it does, the issue is the reg/rec or stator. If not...good luck.

Thanks again mate just went out with fresh eyes started with horn i did take it of so went back. switched wires around .

Boom horn works indicators are tick tick working ;-)

Also brought some CLR as been told good for cleaning carb bodys only on outside. have rince of with water.

Stuck some in a container to do another job shower head didnt work . so though i stick some chrome header nuts . left overnight.

like new still bit rust pits but look much better. must go for pushbike ride clear my head. pick up so wd 40 . as got bit to do to vfr 750.

So stuck more a challege some rusted xr exhust collets see how that goes . be slow process as not sulphric acid but dont want that

sitting around. the old coke cola used to work back in the day. think might changed that.

If you into paint striping caustic soada is what they use in oven cleaners etc prick stuff to work with gets in to cuts on you hands.

Cand leave metal to long it eats it esp some shit metal metal alloys my boss used call most car die cast shit metal . it can just pit to hell

and you have poish shit out of it , and then when electroplate it can pit and bubble crap meatl to work with used to use on early car parts.

[IronPawz]

did you try mix some meths with water in a glass??

Yup and posted about it back in this thread. Very interesting experiment and comments post test and reply by others who know more about it than I do. I have not mind gone the next step (but I will) and mixes the meths / water with petrol to see it not settle out just because I can and that would be an interesting test also. I might not understand the chemistry but I do understand seeing a result.

[IronPawz]

while you at take the brake light bulbs just waste of current lol did i see today i was in my green pirimera you where on yellow and black

blade thought going to city honda going over the rangi bridge , why you just hold front axle with your hands nearly bent over there.
man up hehe save on front tire tread do wheelies as much as possible . my freaking honda vfr got a new battery and draining it again
piece of S@## opps lovley bike mind you got great power in mid oh feels like tractor lovley oh to be back two on 2 wheels

No my Blade is black (as unrecognizable as possible given the regular long distance commute and general tendency to annoy the cages and probably the odd other bike). My goal is to be visible but not really recognizable (there goes that asshole on the yellow and black blade, a black bike is just a black bike and on the move could be a lot of different bikes).

vfr are nice looking bikes. I like that refined look. I remember them in City Honda so comfortable and serious looking.

[actungbaby]

No my Blade is black (as unrecognizable as possible given the regular long distance commute and general tendency to annoy the cages and probably the odd other bike). My goal is to be visible but not really recognizable (there goes that asshole on the yellow and black blade, a black bike is just a black bike and on the move could be a lot of different bikes).

vfr are nice looking bikes. I like that refined look. I remember them in City Honda so comfortable and serious looking.

Yes my bike was orginally all black to well black/ blue pearl apprently know it got red white pannels np primmer thats latter ;-)

oh well i for warned if see you next time ;-) take care yeah was intresting tread for sure . bread crumbs and all

[hayd3n]

Yup and posted about it back in this thread. Very interesting experiment and comments post test and reply by others who know more about it than I do. I have not mind gone the next step (but I will) and mixes the meths / water with petrol to see it not settle out just because I can and that would be an interesting test also. I might not understand the chemistry but I do understand seeing a result.

cool :) i poured MEk into a glass of water and it appears likes its boiling /eating the water /itself