Crap fuel

[Black Knight]

I like classic bikes,I own several of them all,ahem,carburated.WTF is going on with petrol these days?-If any of my bikes are left idle for a couple of weeks,the so called "volatiles" evaporate off and I'm left with a product that wouldn't burn in a forest fire.I am finding that if left idle for as little as 10 days, I have to drain the carbs and refill before any of them look like starting.Why are we paying top $ for crap,I have a mate in the USA running the same model bikes who has no problem with USA fuel.Should I be talking with the AA fuel liaison fella who could take it up with fuel companies?Anybody notice this?
I am led to believe that the light aircraft guys are having similar problems.

[Motu]

It's been happening since the ''90's when we went to unleaded fuel. I always turn the taps off and let the bike run out of fuel....or drain before starting.

[mossy1200]

My bandit has had its rego on hold and it runs like crap for a while if left 2 weeks. I ended up pulling carbs and cleaning blocked jets a while ago and its like they are blocked again. I was wondering if the fuel was causing it also.

[Kickaha]

I'm finding if I leave my classic bike for several weeks it still starts 2-3 kicks and runs with no problems at all

[AllanB]

2 weeks? Really? I had a problem when they first took lead out and a bike was sat for about 5 months. Wasted time trying to work out waht was wrong - change of fuel .....

4-6 months and I'd understand, but two weeks and I'd try refueling with a different supplier.

No issues with a few weeks on a injected ride and given the fuel needs the ability to go bang to work, if it is 'off' I don't see why carb vs injector would make a difference, if 'off' it won't go bang either way.


What brand? What octane?

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm finding if I leave my classic bike for several weeks it still starts 2-3 kicks and runs with no problems at all

Kerosene lasts forever mate. Silly Old Cunt.

[Black Knight]

I'm finding if I leave my classic bike for several weeks it still starts 2-3 kicks and runs with no problems at all

Yeah Kick but its an A10,if I recall they would run on anything.

[Black Knight]

2 weeks? Really? I had a problem when they first took lead out and a bike was sat for about 5 months. Wasted time trying to work out waht was wrong - change of fuel .....

4-6 months and I'd understand, but two weeks and I'd try refueling with a different supplier.

No issues with a few weeks on a injected ride and given the fuel needs the ability to go bang to work, if it is 'off' I don't see why carb vs injector would make a difference, if 'off' it won't go bang either way.


What brand? What octane?

I still think fuel has got really bad over the past 12 months-I have used several different suppliers and all the same-Older bikes have large air boxes which can result in faster evaporation,injected bikes are drawing straight from the fuel tank not the carb bowls.Brand,Ive tried the lot,octane-good ol 91,tried the other stuff and little difference,besides I ran 91 for yonks without problems.

[jafagsx250]

If your bike wasn't so old then you could run Gull force ten which is ten percent ethanol. It helps clean the fuel system apparently. But it wouldn't be as good as a proper carburetor clean

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

[Akzle]

If your bike wasn't so old then you could run Gull force ten which is ten percent ethanol. It helps clean the fuel system apparently. But it wouldn't be as good as a proper carburetor clean

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

except that ethanol is a) hygroscopic and b) evaporative, meaning you swap combustibles for water if left sitting.
as long as all the seals have been renewed with not-chickenshit rubber, ethanol can be run in any age bike.

[Intruder VS]

I've read a few times on forums ethanol is really bad for 2 strokes and to stay away from it, can't remember why tho.

[jafagsx250]

except that ethanol is a) hygroscopic and b) evaporative, meaning you swap combustibles for water if left sitting.
as long as all the seals have been renewed with not-chickenshit rubber, ethanol can be run in any age bike.
I was more thinking of using the e 10 after you've drained the bowls to clean it out.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

[AllanB]

Possibly one of the easiest ways for you to check if it is indeed our questionable fuel (who hows what they mix up for NZ!) is to try a fuel stabilizer in the tank. I've seen them somewhere local - think it may have been at a hot rod specialist shop.

Hand on - Supercheap have it http://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/Product/CRC-Fuel-Stabiliser-350mL/395871


I just fired up my petrol edge trimmer and lawn mower this afternoon - neither have been used for about six weeks (maybe more) and the fuel in the can I topped up the mower with must be four months old. Both fired up fine.

Which make me wonder if it's a different issue with your classic. Throw in some fuel stabilizer and see if it improves.

[Voltaire]

Took my 900SL for WOF after 7 months of not been used, running pretty rough, probably drain the tank and give it to someone with a lawnmower or BSA A10:bleh:

[Kickaha]

running pretty rough, probably drain the tank and give it to someone with a lawnmower
Use it in your Norton, not much difference in technology between that and a lawnmower

[Voltaire]

Use it in your Norton, not much difference in technology between that and a lawnmower

More chance of the lawnmower starting:baby:

So bought that MHR yet?

[caspernz]

I've read a few times on forums ethanol is really bad for 2 strokes and to stay away from it, can't remember why tho.

Meh, been using the Gull Force10 in my two smoke weed whacker for two years at least.

[Kickaha]

So bought that MHR yet?
Can't afford it or I would have

[Black Knight]

It is not just in one bike guys,its in all three that I start up and ride every couple of months,two are twin carbed and one is single,go figure.E10 sorry I would not touch it.Thought about Stabil or similar,but these are just Band Aids to fix a fuel quality problem.Guess I,like other classic bike owners (except A10's),will just have to live with it but I still might give the AA fuel guy a rev.

[Grumph]

It'll keep ok if it's in a sealed container. Your classics have shall we say, very well vented fuel systems - so will collect any moisture and lose the light end components easily. Particularly when there's a hot engine radiating just below the tank...
The other point is location - Russell ain't Rangiora. That's both climate and the fuel available.

For something used only occasionally in a warm climate, total draining of the tank and carbs is probably best. Just like a racebike...

[Motu]

I used to put a bit of race fuel in my tank, always started up well after a couple of months then.

[AllanB]

It is not just in one bike guys,its in all three that I start up and ride every couple of months,two are twin carbed and one is single,go figure.E10 sorry I would not touch it.Thought about Stabil or similar,but these are just Band Aids to fix a fuel quality problem.Guess I,like other classic bike owners (except A10's),will just have to live with it but I still might give the AA fuel guy a rev.

That is just crap then.


Which makes me wonder - there are a shit load of very high performance cars on the road that get infrequent use - do they have issues?


Spring the $16 and throw in some stabiliser and see if it makes a difference - you'll at least be a lot closer to confirming it is the fuel.

Race fuel - now we are talking!

[george formby]

Sounds like a wabbit is off somewhere BK.

The four carby bikes I have in the shed start fine after sitting in the cold and damp for weeks, sometimes months. Admittedly they are not quite vintage age yet, 90's.
I always get my fuel in Kawakawa which has a high turnover. Do you use the new station, or the old one in town? I've heard unhappy mutterings about the quality of fuel at the old station, it has been blamed in the past for quite a few spluttery outboards.

Oh, how did the green slime campaign go? I've noticed no difference.

[Flettner]

I run the Gull E85 in my 1973 Kawasaki, good for air cooled engines. Yes don't let the fuel sit, use it or drain it. The Kawasaki won't be going back on straight petrol any time soon, the ethanol in that good for performance!

[Black Knight]

Sounds like a wabbit is off somewhere BK.

The four carby bikes I have in the shed start fine after sitting in the cold and damp for weeks, sometimes months. Admittedly they are not quite vintage age yet, 90's.
I always get my fuel in Kawakawa which has a high turnover. Do you use the new station, or the old one in town? I've heard unhappy mutterings about the quality of fuel at the old station, it has been blamed in the past for quite a few spluttery outboards.

Oh, how did the green slime campaign go? I've noticed no difference.

I get my fuel from all over Mark co's I get around a bit,mainly at Z in Kamo co's its cheap(ish).The station in town closed when the new one opened over a year ago,you really should get out more;)-Re the green ice-I saw a spray truck on the Back Road twice,the stuff went a bit brown,but now spring is near its not too bad.

[Black Knight]

OK-will drain tank(s) as suggested by Grumph but this does not really answer the problem which is the fact that they will not start with stale fuel in carbs but the moment I drain the carbs and open the petcock to refill with existing "fresh fuel" from the tank,the bikes start up straight away.If the fuel in the tank was suspect I should be having similar problems.As previously stated,I am not the only one who is experiencing these problems.If a tank drain and the addition of a stabiliser does not improve things I will revert to draining the carbs each time
and get on with life.

[Grumph]

When i said you had well ventilated fuel systems I should have qualified it a bit. From mid 70's on most bikes went to tank and carb vents which didn't usually go to atmosphere - but initially to a collector/filter setup. Later ones have got even tighter on what goes to evaporation so the problem of losing the volatile ends of the fuel has got less.
The big problem as I see it is that as you lose the light ends,the specific gravity of the fuel changes. Given that we're asking for the fuel to be drawn through small holes by a pretty low vacuum, any change toward a "heavier" fuel is going to show up.
Cars and late model injected stuff won't show this problem. Cars because they have a much higher manifold vacuum, injected because they don't rely on gravity feed or manifold vacuum.

Some years back I did a lot of TQ carbs. Gradually the guys using carbs went to Hilborn injection - not because they went better or made more power - often they made less - but because the pump system would push meth with a lot of water in it through the nozzles and the motor would run.
If you didn't do the maintenance on a carb system, it simply wouldn't run...
A simple case of going to injection because they were lazy....

You used to be able to get water testing kits from the fuel companies. When i was doing a lot of carb work on meth burners i always carried a kit. Still got some test sticks in the toolbox. Worth seeing if you can find a kit if you have worries about the local garage...
Once i was experienced at it, I used to surprise people by simply tasting their meth - when it's salty it has water in it. Wouldn't do that now....

[swarfie]

Oh Greg...that last couple of sentences explains a lot about you:lol::killingme

Not sure if it's coincidence but I've found that any of my old bikes with mags are worse at starting with stale fuel than any of them with points, but I'd put that down to fixed/manual advance with a magneto as against a rudimentary advance setup with the points ones. Electronic injection sure has a huge benefit to starting on evap fuel. My injected quad starts first push of the button EVERY time, whether it's been going 9 months ago or yesterday.
Suck it up ladies...it's part of owning classic bikes:brick:

[Grumph]

Never more than a drop on the tongue, Nev...and an educated palate, LOL.

Trouble was, I'd get approached at nationals by guys groping in the dark when running meth - often sidecar guys...
You'd ask, when did you mix this or open the tin ? Much thought and they'd answer, Wanganui, or maybe Pukekohe...So i'd ask what i already knew, was it raining there ? Then, did you drain the tank after the meeting...Knowing full well what the answers would be.
At times I was genuinely surprised any sidecars ever got to the grids.

[Voltaire]

[QUOTE=swarfie;1130994841]Oh Greg...that last couple of sentences explains a lot about you:lol::killingme

Not sure if it's coincidence but I've found that any of my old bikes with mags are worse at starting with stale fuel than any of them with points, but I'd put that down to fixed/manual advance with a magneto as against a rudimentary advance setup with the points ones. Electronic injection sure has a huge benefit to starting on evap fuel. My injected quad starts first push of the button EVERY time, whether it's been going 9 months ago or yesterday.
Suck it up ladies...it's part of owning classic bikes:brick:[/QUOTE

Electric Start Quad???, is that for getting around the estate on?:sunny:

[jellywrestler]

Kerosene lasts forever mate. Silly Old Cunt.

not the way you drink.....

[Crasherfromwayback]

not the way you drink.....

Great mixer!

[george formby]

I get my fuel from all over Mark co's I get around a bit,mainly at Z in Kamo co's its cheap(ish).The station in town closed when the new one opened over a year ago,you really should get out more;)-Re the green ice-I saw a spray truck on the Back Road twice,the stuff went a bit brown,but now spring is near its not too bad.

My passport is out of date..

[Kickaha]

At times I was genuinely surprised any sidecars ever got to the grids.
I still am