Contractors Law. Will it affect you?

[hayd3n]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/83316856/kirk-hope-contractors-minimum-pay-bill-confused

[hayd3n]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/311499/contracting-bill-faces-opposition-from-employers

[Ocean1]

No, I already can't afford employees, making them more expensive won't affect me in the slightest.

[Mike.Gayner]

Contractors sign up to contracts for services and are paid for outcomes, not paid by the hour.

What nonsense - at least half of all the contractors we use at work are hourly. If BusinessNZ is so concerned about this matter, perhaps they should tell their members to stop trying to shift legitimate employees onto contracts for the purposes of paying them less than minimum wage (plus no holiday leave, sick leave and no other employee entitlements).

[hayd3n]

If the bill is passed, it will require businesses to work out what contractors will earn on an hourly rate. Which does not take into account the nature and dynamics of contracting. Contract payment options may include an hourly rate, but other common practices also include the use of piece rates for volume based work and fixed price for payment upon completion of work.

[Gremlin]

Stupid legislation... they have plenty to fix without fucking up more.

As mentioned, there is already law around more than 80%?? of your income coming from one source, plus I think I recall it already being tested in court?

I work for a company that contracts to clients supporting their networks, some is paid by the hour, others are on monthly retainers. Then again, I guess we're not exactly minimum wage, but what, we'd have to account for all hours to someone?

In the building game it's often per m2. So if a builder is slow, suddenly he breaches minimum wage, but a quick efficient worker is well above?... Work slower, get paid more... yeah, sounding even smarter. :weird:

[hayd3n]

Stupid legislation... they have plenty to fix without fucking up more.

As mentioned, there is already law around more than 80%?? of your income coming from one source, plus I think I recall it already being tested in court?

I work for a company that contracts to clients supporting their networks, some is paid by the hour, others are on monthly retainers. Then again, I guess we're not exactly minimum wage, but what, we'd have to account for all hours to someone?

In the building game it's often per m2. So if a builder is slow, suddenly he breaches minimum wage, but a quick efficient worker is well above?... Work slower, get paid more... yeah, sounding even smarter. :weird:

yeap and to think it comes down to one vote... mr dunn the ball is in your hands

[Mike.Gayner]

I work for a company that contracts to clients supporting their networks, some is paid by the hour, others are on monthly retainers. Then again, I guess we're not exactly minimum wage, but what, we'd have to account for all hours to someone?

This law would apply to independent contractors, not larger businesses.

[hayd3n]

This law would apply to independent contractors, not larger businesses.
it will apply to all contractors

[Woodman]

Stupid legislation... they have plenty to fix without fucking up more.

As mentioned, there is already law around more than 80%?? of your income coming from one source, plus I think I recall it already being tested in court?

I work for a company that contracts to clients supporting their networks, some is paid by the hour, others are on monthly retainers. Then again, I guess we're not exactly minimum wage, but what, we'd have to account for all hours to someone?

In the building game it's often per m2. So if a builder is slow, suddenly he breaches minimum wage, but a quick efficient worker is well above?... Work slower, get paid more... yeah, sounding even smarter. :weird:

Seems to me that it will be open slather to falsify hours etc. Also what contractor in his right mind would then charge their client more than their quote claiming the government contractor minimum wage legislation. Might get away with it once per client but won't get any repeat business.

[bogan]

Hang on, what sort of fucking contractor charges anywhere near minimum wage to begin with?

Or are they saying contractors who fail to deliver on a quoted job should still get paid minimum wage for the work done?

[Ocean1]

What nonsense - at least half of all the contractors we use at work are hourly. If BusinessNZ is so concerned about this matter, perhaps they should tell their members to stop trying to shift legitimate employees onto contracts for the purposes of paying them less than minimum wage (plus no holiday leave, sick leave and no other employee entitlements).

Nah that's crap, they already can't legally do that.

Is the concept of getting paid by results rather than how long you take a bit scary?

[Ocean1]

Hang on, what sort of fucking contractor charges anywhere near minimum wage to begin with?

Or are they saying contractors who fail to deliver on a quoted job should still get paid minimum wage for the work done?

Who fucking knows what they think is wrong with the current setup.

I do know several guys that work for not very much though. Two, no three of them are "retired", one helps out a landscape gardener when he gets busy, another works in a warehouse every second month and another digs ditches for a drainlayer a couple of days a week.

Another mate has had to give up cleaning a local workshop twice a week, for free, the ACC and OSH compliance issues made it just too hard.

So yeah, go ahead and add more restrictions, that'll help.

[Woodman]

What is the definition of a contractor in relation to the proposed legislation?

[hayd3n]

What is the definition of a contractor in relation to the proposed legislation?


http://taxaccountant.kiwi.nz/define-income/employee-or-contractor
3. How to define the employment status?

Using five employment relationship tests can help us determine the employment status, but there is no single test that will always conclusively determine the issue.

The control test

The greater the control by the employer over work content, hours and methods, the more likely it is an employee status. However, it is not a conclusively test, a high degree control does not lead to an employee status (TNT World Express Ltd v Cunningham).

The independence test

A worker with greater freedom to choose who to work for, where to work, the tools used and so on, is more likely to be an independent contractor.

The integration of organisation test

A person is considered as an employee of the organisation if:
a. The type of work is commonly done by employee
b. Continuous (Not a one-off operation)
c. For the benefit of the business rather than for the benefit of the worker

Intention test

Intention is typically indicated in the written contracts.

Fundamental test

The test involves examining the total situation of the work relationship to determine its economic reality.

[Gremlin]

There is the additional factor of course... why do you have contractors? More often than not, it's to outsource a speciality, rather than having the overheads of employing staff, maintaining those staff etc. In my case a client could say, pay for less than one employee a year, but have the benefit of multiple technicians but not full time.

Ultimately, the law is stupid. There is already law in place for companies that want to abuse the structure to take advantage of people... and as said, contracts by their very nature don't have to be renewed (so they're not going to make it difficult to their client)... but perhaps that's another law in the works?

[haydes55]

So salespeople who are independent contractors to a large company, will have to be on a retainer of minimum wage? Not just commission only? How do they track the hours spent by a salesperson on chasing leads, talking to businesses etc? I worked 120 hours this week, prove I didn't.

[hayd3n]

So salespeople who are independent contractors to a large company, will have to be on a retainer of minimum wage? Not just commission only? How do they track the hours spent by a salesperson on chasing leads, talking to businesses etc? I worked 120 hours this week, prove I didn't.

yeap basically

[hayd3n]

Labour up to their typical no good

Sent from my Y635-L02 using Tapatalk

[hayd3n]

updated and common sense has won http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1608/S00289/contractor-bill-defeated.htm

[Swoop]

Is it too late to complain about the fucking retarded spelling of the title?

[russd7]

Is it too late to complain about the fucking retarded spelling of the title?

i think you might find this bill was targeted at the likes of fruit pickers and out workers for companies who often do struggle to make minimum wage. very easy to say just don't do it but often those who are doing those sorts of jobs don't have much choice.

n example is our daughter was doing out work for a local company, the job was gluing magnets on on to shapes, she got very proficient and quick at it and happened to say something when she dropped some off, they then dropped the rate because she was making to much money in their opinion.

she was lucky because she lived at home and my solution was simple, tell them to shove it.

that is not an isolated incident unfortunately.