Scart RGB -> Component conversion

[matthewt]

Has anyone here used converters to output Scart RGB to a component device ??

I'm trying to hookup sky/xbox/dvd which all have scart connectors to my TV which only has component (along with s-video and composhit). I've seen the cypress csy-2100 box which I'm thinking of buying but I wondered if anyone else has been down this path.

I could just use the dvd which has two scart in and component out to translate for me but that then limits how I use my dvd recorder.

thanks in advance

[WRT]

Check with IT Products (http://www.itproducts.co.nz) or Anyware (http://www.anywarenz.co.nz) (both in Auckland sorry!) to see what options are available. Both offer a wide range of converters and adaptors at very reasonable prices.

[bugjuice]

nothing Dick Smith or Jaycar would be able to help with..??
always a good excuse to upgrade the ol' box..

[Paul in NZ]

Hi

I have one sitting on my desk you can try..

SKY RGB to Component Video...

I got it made by Mark up the coast. See here http://www.videotheatre.co.nz/

Works OK...

[SN4PD]

Just checked with Jack from Anyware (ordering some keyboards) and they dont do any SCART products.

Try IKON AVS, the do a lot of hifi stuff, http://www.ikonavs.com/

IKON AVS NZ (Distributor)
Address PO Box 619, Pukekohe,New Zealand
Tel + 64 (0)27 662 8463

[matthewt]

nothing Dick Smith or Jaycar would be able to help with..??
always a good excuse to upgrade the ol' box..

The "ol' box" was just upgraded :)

Scart is really a european thing and not that popular here. Sky are meant to provide component thru scart on the boxes via a firmware upgrade but I don't think this has happened yet. Maybe they are waiting for the pvr boxes to resolve this instead of upgrading the older digital ones.

DSE have a scart to rgb output plug which doesn't convert the actual signal. I got one and it didn't work. After some research I know why now. RGB and component are just different. Jaycar have the converter box I'm looking at (part#AC1600 but the picture is wrong).

[matthewt]

Check with IT Products (http://www.itproducts.co.nz) or Anyware (http://www.anywarenz.co.nz) (both in Auckland sorry!) to see what options are available. Both offer a wide range of converters and adaptors at very reasonable prices.

Thanks, I had a look but couldn't see anything.

[SN4PD]

Goto www.jaycar.co.nz and search for PA3659 its $17.

[matthewt]

Hi

I have one sitting on my desk you can try..

SKY RGB to Component Video...

I got it made by Mark up the coast. See here http://www.videotheatre.co.nz/

Works OK...

Thanks Paul, I should of asked you first. I found mark's www site this morning when I had a search for converters. I'd found the cypress one last week but wanted to see if there were any alternatives.

Have you tried the device on anything other than Sky ?? I'll be pushing my xBox and DVD thru it as well so I wondered how well it pefromed with the higher bandwidth devices.

[matthewt]

Goto www.jaycar.co.nz and search for PA3659 its $17.

Yer I've got one of those already on the other scart connector. All it does is output (or input) to s-video and std rca. RGB is different as it's picture only and much higher quality.

Jaycar/dick smith also have one that has RGB output but again that doesn't convert the picture to component so would only work on a tv/projector that had actual rgb inputs.

[**R1**]

I can do you a SCART to s-vid, but not component, does your dvd not have component out? how many component inputs duz ya telly have?

[Paul in NZ]

Thanks Paul, I should of asked you first. I found mark's www site this morning when I had a search for converters. I'd found the cypress one last week but wanted to see if there were any alternatives.

Have you tried the device on anything other than Sky ?? I'll be pushing my xBox and DVD thru it as well so I wondered how well it pefromed with the higher bandwidth devices.

Hmm...

Yes, we have used it with good results but we got mark to mod it so we could run a 15 pin mini D-sub RGB connector (from PC) into it (this causes a few additional challanges). We wanted component out from a PC. (usually RGB)

I'll ask him if it will still do what you want as well but I'm pretty sure it will.

What you are running up against is a bloody joke out there. People are selling all sorts of shite as HDTV and don't know their component from their composite. (in video terms that means arse from elbow).. It's a kick in the nuts to have a nice screen or a 100hz TV and have to run composite video into it from your decoder...

S Video (shudder) seems to either work... Or not work or worse just give you black and white.. Have never bothered to even try to sell it as a solution.

For quality we use 5 core coax ....

Cheers

The box is on my desk and you are welcome to try it.

[Lou Girardin]

Jaycar do all types of converters. See www.jaycar.com.au

[Paul in NZ]

Jaycar do all types of converters. See www.jaycar.com.au

Yup... and their RGB to Component one probably won't work in this application. (I have one of those as well if you want to try it matt)

My problem is I use a PC to drive a 40" LCD monitor and to do that I need the 3 RGB / Componet leads PLUS a vertical and horizontal synch ... (usually not required for you TV)

For a reasonable explanation... (in 2 parts)

So what is "Component Video" anyway?
If you are just getting into home theater you will no doubt be confused by a lot of the jargon. And since the term component video is sure to befuddle just about everyone, here's a little primer on the subject. It might sound a little technical at first, but if you've got a DVD player, read on for some important information.

Starting at the beginning: RGB
Believe it or not, your eyes can see only three colors—red, green, and blue. All of the other colors and shades of the spectrum you perceive are the result of your brain interpreting the mix of red, green, and blue signals coming from your eyes. Pigments of your imagination, you might call them. (Sorry.)
Therefore, since your eyes only see red, green, and blue, a video system needs to capture and reproduce only red, green, and blue, or RGB as it's called. The camera must capture RGB on the front end. That information must be delivered accurately to your television or projector which must display RGB. By varying the intensity of red, green, and blue, every color of the spectrum can be reproduced. Voila. Perfectly natural color on your screen.
A Problem: Bandwidth
So how do you transport an image from the camera to your TV or projector? You could transmit it in the RGB format in which the camera first captured it. However, RGB is a bandwidth hog and bandwidth is expensive. So the first thing that happens is RGB is converted into a more compact format. This format is component video.
Component video consists of three signals. The first is the luminance signal, which indicates brightness or black & white information that is contained in the original RGB signal. It is referred to as the "Y" component. The second and third signals are called "color difference" signals which indicate how much blue and red there is relative to luminance. The blue component is "B-Y" and the red component is "R-Y". The color difference signals are mathematical derivatives of the RGB signal.
Green doesn't need to be transmitted as a separate signal since it can be inferred from the "Y, B-Y, R-Y" combination. The display device knows how bright the image is from the Y component, and since it knows how much is blue and red, it figures the rest must be green so it fills it in.
Once we've got our video information packaged up in component video format we've reduced bandwidth requirements by a factor of 3 to 2. But more compression was required for broadcast purposes. So back in 1953 when color television was born, a technique was developed to compress all of the component video information into one signal for broadcast. That one signal defined by the National Television Standards Committee (NTSC) is known as composite video.
Composite video shows up everywhere these days. It is (except for HDTV) what comes over the air to your TV's antenna, or through the coaxial cable from your cable TV provider. The yellow "video" jacks on the back of your VCR, laserdisc player or DVD player all output composite video.
The good news is that it only takes one wire to carry a composite video signal. The bad news is that the display system, whether it's a television or projector, needs to un-compress the composite signal, restore it to its original three-signal component video format, and then derive from that the RGB information for final display.
The problem is that picture information is lost when component video is compressed into composite format. Furthermore, once you pack luminance (Y) and chrominance (C) information into one signal, it cannot ever be separated cleanly again. So when the television or projector tries to convert the composite signal back to component video, it can't recover the entire original signal. The result is that the final video image on the screen is diminished—the picture is not as crisp and clean, and the colors aren't as accurate and rich as they would have been had the composite video compression been avoided.

[Hoon]

Yes as others have said you need a magic box to convert scart/s-video into component, this can't be done with a cable or adapter - its more than just matching wires up to pins as the protocols are entirely different (edit: bahh beaten to it!!)

I had a similar issue trying to get the best picture out of my Sky/DVDHomeTheatre/VCR/Xbox/WidescreenTV combo and ended up having to make a few concessions as I couldn't acheive optimal performance for every combination without changing plugs. So the DVD Home theatre got component, Sky -> svideo and Xbox/VCR composite with no sound output to the home theatre system.

It all depends on what is acceptable for you. i.e. DVD quality is more important to me than Sky. Also I could've had the Xbox running through the Home theatre but it would mean pressing two remotes to switch between xbox and tv which for someone that shoots it up every ad-break is unthinkable.

Next I plan to ditch the VCR for a Tivo unit which will cause even more headaches....

[Paul in NZ]

So what does all this mean to you?
If you want good picture quality, there's some amazingly good news here. The news is this: DVDs are encoded in component video!. This is a big step forward since VHS tapes and laserdiscs are encoded in composite video. So the signal information in those media is already diminished and compromised. But DVD is a different animal—not only is it more compact and easy to use, but a much higher quality format is on the DVD itself. All you need to do is take advantage of it.
To do that, you need a DVD player with component video output, and a television or projector with component video input. You can connect the two with a three-wire component video cable. When you do this, you transfer the high quality signal from the DVD straight into your display system without it ever being converted to composite video. The result—better detail, a cleaner picture, and more accurate and richer color.
But wait, there's more. Let's say you are one of the vast majority of consumers out there whose DVD player doesn't have component video outputs or your television or projector doesn't take component video input. What you then have is two connection options.
First, you can do what most people do--use the simple yellow (RCA) video jacks. Actually this cable is often bound together with the audio connectors to make it even easier—yellow for video and red and white for audio. Couldn't be easier, right? Big mistake.
The second connection option (the better option) is that you can use the clumsy 4-pin S-video jacks. This often requires a trip to the electronics store to get a more expensive cable. Most people don't want to bother. So they use the yellow RCA jacks because they are labeled VIDEO, and because that's the cable that came with the DVD player. Once they hook it up and turn it on, they find that the picture looks better than their VCR. So they are happy and forget about S-video. This is of course the wrong thing to do.
Why? Because by using the yellow RCA video jacks, you are forcing your DVD player to down-convert all that great component video information on the DVD to lowly composite video in order to transmit it to your television or projector. You lose much of the picture quality that the DVD can deliver by doing this. OK, it looks better than your VCR. But you aren't getting the best picture you can get.
So the alternative, S-video, is a MUCH better solution. An S-video cable actually carries two separate signals, one for luminance (Y) and one for chrominance or color (C). The Y signal is the same as in the native component video format. And the C is simply a combination of the B-Y and R-Y color difference signals. (Sometimes you will see S-video referred to as Y/C.) By keeping luminance and chrominance information separate on two wires it prevents most of the signal degradation that is inherent in the conversion to single-wire composite video.
So. If you've got a DVD player and want to give yourself an instant video system upgrade, replace the composite video RCA cable (the one with the yellow plugs) with an S-video cable (round connector with four little pins). It's simple and inexpensive, and you will get a much better picture.
Use component video if you have it
If you have component video output on your DVD player and your TV or projector can take that signal, use it. DVD players with this output usually have three RCA jacks which are color-coded green, blue, and red. They are labeled either Y, B-Y, R-Y, or alternatively Y, Pb, Pr, or Y, Cb, Cr. For practical purposes they are all the same thing. If your television or projector also has the same three RCA jacks, just connect them with a three-wire component video cable making sure the colors match up on both ends (or you can use three standard composite video cables to do the same thing).
Frequently a projector will take component video, but only through a VGA port, commonly a 15-pin D-sub like the output ports on a PC. In this case you will need a cable that has the three RCA jacks on one end for the DVD player, and a 15-pin D-sub VGA connector on the other. You can order this cable from most projector manufacturers that market projectors with this interface.
Progressive vs. interlaced component video
We've got one more important thing to cover on this topic. Component video comes in two flavors—progressive and interlaced. If you don't know the difference, read The Difference between HDTV, EDTV, and SDTV, then come back to this page.
There are three basic kinds of DVD players. First, there are those that have composite and S-video outputs only. Second, there are those that have composite, S-video, and component video interlaced (480i) outputs. Finally, there are those that have composite, S-video, and two forms of component video—component interlaced (480i) and component progressive (480p) outputs.
People often make a big mistake these days by going out to buy a DVD player knowing that "component video" is an important thing, but not being aware that there are lots of DVD players that output "component-interlaced only" and not component-progressive. Both products will say they are "component video" compatible, but if you don't know the difference, you can end up buying something you don't want. If your current video display system takes component-progressive 480p (or you intend to get one that does), you will need to make sure your DVD player offers this as an output as well.
It is important to know this when buying a projector or TV also. There are projectors on the market that will take component-interlaced 480i, but not component-progressive 480p. Some with take both, and some will take neither. The best picture quality will often come from matching a DVD player with a projector that both have component progressive 480p.
If a projector specification sheet says that it takes component video, DO NOT assume that it takes both 480i and 480p unless it specifically states that it is 480p or component-progressive compatible. Sometimes a specification sheet will state component video compatibility, but it means 480i only.
(NOTE: At this writing, if the line item "Component video" on our Projector Database specification sheets says "yes" it means that the projector will take either 480i or 480p but not necessarily both. We are presently in the process of upgrading our Database to include specific indications as to compatibility with component 480i and 480p individually in order to eliminate this confusion. But until that is done, be aware of the issue if you are currently buying a projector or large screen TV for your home theater.)
Conclusion
The way to get the best DVD picture is to use component video connections (if you have them) between your DVD player and your TV or projector. Component-progressive is preferred when you have both progressive and interlaced options.
For the vast majority of DVD users who don't have component capability in either their players or their display systems, the next best thing is S-video. If you are one of the large majority of DVD enthusiasts who are running composite video out of your DVD player and inadvertently degrading the picture as a result, give yourself a quality upgrade--get an S-video cable as soon as possible.

[matthewt]

I can do you a SCART to s-vid, but not component, does your dvd not have component out? how many component inputs duz ya telly have?

Yup the dvd (Sony rdr-hx910) has component out and that's what I have hooked up now. s-vid was an improvement over composhit but I really wanted to use the component plugs as that provides the best picture for my TV (Sony 42" Grand Wega). it has 2 component input + 3 rear and 1 front rca/s-vid.

What I'm trying to do by using scart for the devices is make it easy to switch between them. I have a switch box that has a number of different connectors (rca, s-vid, optical and scart) and scart is probably the easiest way for me to get decent video into the LCD TV. Also if I can get the switch box to work how I want it to (it already does for s-vid/rca/optical) it means I can just leave the tv on component1 and not have to change the AV input setting (easy for me but not for wife + kids).

[matthewt]

Yes as others have said you need a magic box to convert scart/s-video into component, this can't be done with a cable or adapter - its more than just matching wires up to pins as the protocols are entirely different (edit: bahh beaten to it!!)

I had a similar issue trying to get the best picture out of my Sky/DVDHomeTheatre/VCR/Xbox/WidescreenTV combo and ended up having to make a few concessions as I couldn't acheive optimal performance for every combination without changing plugs. So the DVD Home theatre got component, Sky -> svideo and Xbox/VCR composite with no sound output to the home theatre system.

It all depends on what is acceptable for you. i.e. DVD quality is more important to me than Sky. Also I could've had the Xbox running through the Home theatre but it would mean pressing two remotes to switch between xbox and tv which for someone that shoots it up every ad-break is unthinkable.

Next I plan to ditch the VCR for a Tivo unit which will cause even more headaches....


Thanks Hoon,

I'm using a Joytech device to switch between my components. it works well and has made my life a lot easier. The remote I have lets you run a macros every time you select a new device to operate so I'm using that to setup the TV and Amp to what I need for the device.

Good luck with the Tivo unit, a friend has one and loves it. have you looked at the "My Sky" offering, not great but not bad either.

[matthewt]

The box is on my desk and you are welcome to try it.

Thanks Paul, I'm just about to email you. If it makes a noticable difference to Sky then I'll probably buy one. When you say Mark on the Coast do you mean up your way ??

[matthewt]

As a note I just found out the TV supports 1080i, 720p, 576p, 480p from component inputs and the dvd will convert any video signal it gets to progressive component for output.

[Paul in NZ]

Thanks Paul, I'm just about to email you. If it makes a noticable difference to Sky then I'll probably buy one. When you say Mark on the Coast do you mean up your way ??

Yup, he is in paraparaumu...

[GR81]

Check with IT Products (http://www.itproducts.co.nz) or Anyware (http://www.anywarenz.co.nz) (both in Auckland sorry!) to see what options are available. Both offer a wide range of converters and adaptors at very reasonable prices.
Both these companies are wholesalers and wont deal with the end-user...

[Hoon]

The remote I have lets you run a macros every time you select a new device to operate ......

Hey thats a great idea!!! I've seen those LCD touch screen remotes but never thought of using them like that!

[matthewt]

Hey thats a great idea!!! I've seen those LCD touch screen remotes but never thought of using them like that!

It's not a lcd touch screen one. I really wanted a Philips Pronto but just can't justify $1000 for a remote. I've got a Sony (RMVL1000) one that cost about $200 at the time. Looks like a "normal" remote but can keep track of 12 devices. Allows some good customising if you have the time.

If you're looking for a highend remote then www.remotecentral.com is the place to go for research. I see a few places now are offering the baby pronto (neo??) for around $400.

[MikeL]

SCART connectors are a trap for the unwary. They have 21 pins and can in theory handle any type of video signal (composite, RGB, component, Y/C...) as well as audio, input and output, but it depends on the equipment as to which signals are provided and which pins are wired. And despite the original concept the pin configuration is not standardised. And if you want to route audio separately you have to have an adaptor anyway.
A plague on the European committee that came up with the idea.

[matthewt]

SCART connectors are a trap for the unwary. They have 21 pins and can in theory handle any type of video signal (composite, RGB, component, Y/C...) as well as audio, input and output, but it depends on the equipment as to which signals are provided and which pins are wired. And despite the original concept the pin configuration is not standardised. And if you want to route audio separately you have to have an adaptor anyway.
A plague on the European committee that came up with the idea.

Yup a trap for sure. Got caught a couple of times not remembering to set what I wanted output to scart. I don't forget anymore.

[Mooch]

SCART connectors are a trap for the unwary. They have 21 pins and can in theory handle any type of video signal (composite, RGB, component, Y/C...) as well as audio, input and output, but it depends on the equipment as to which signals are provided and which pins are wired. And despite the original concept the pin configuration is not standardised. And if you want to route audio separately you have to have an adaptor anyway.
A plague on the European committee that came up with the idea.


One good thing about using scart between TV and DVR / VIDEO is that on the TV remote , if you hit the RED button normally used for Teletext in NZ the DVR will start recording. Nice and convenient.

I'm with the rest here on using decent separate cables for each function , but from the Wife who hates wires point of view , I think she would prefer maybe 4 scarts running RGB than , 3 component , 3 svhs , 16 RCA audio , 1 spdif and one coax digital audio links complete with a cable management system.
Sure the scarts would only give stereo , but it becomes far less complex and tidy
Perhaps Matt should grab one of these. :headbang:
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/kd-msw8x3.htm

[matthewt]

Perhaps Matt should grab one of these. :headbang:
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/kd-msw8x3.htm

Bit of an overkill for my purposes. But it doesn't surprise me that they are available.

I'm using this at the moment

http://www.joytech.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=77

The pdf link shows the rear ports. In all it does the job quite nicely.

[Mooch]

So you happy the Wega 42 ?. The picture on those look great , and it's hard to believe it's an RP TV.

[matthewt]

So you happy the Wega 42 ?. The picture on those look great , and it's hard to believe it's an RP TV.

VERY happy. The LCD works a lot better than crt rp. Looks good off angle and also in sunlight so no complaints. I looked at the 50" but too big for the room and the resolution is the same so I went for the 42.

[zadok]

Has anyone here used converters to output Scart RGB to a component device ??
Component & SCART, tell me about it! One of my tv's is a Teac 66cm widescreen, European model. ONLY has SCART connectors (see rather blurry pic; apologies). The top SCART socket will ONLY support YCbCr 'component'. I have a converter in my EXT1 to handle the RGB signal, plugged into a $6 three way 'thingamajig' (can't think what you call it; see other poor pic).
Now I can run my Digital set topbox, Foxtel & DVD player all throught the one connection by flicking the switch over to which one I want.
This may not be what you are doing exactly, but may give you some ideas.
ps. From my experience, component will only connect to component and I don't think you can get adaptors.

[bungbung]

The scart connector has composite, s-video signal and RGB pins. Whether or not they are used is up to the device capabilities.

Most euro tellys do RGB, everyone else gets YCbCr.

Good luck Matt, maybe a future Sky box will support YCbCr

[matthewt]

Component & SCART, tell me about it! One of my tv's is a Teac 66cm widescreen, European model. ONLY has SCART connectors (see rather blurry pic; apologies). The top SCART socket will ONLY support YCbCr 'component'. I have a converter in my EXT1 to handle the RGB signal, plugged into a $6 three way 'thingamajig' (can't think what you call it; see other poor pic).
Now I can run my Digital set topbox, Foxtel & DVD player all throught the one connection by flicking the switch over to which one I want.
This may not be what you are doing exactly, but may give you some ideas.
ps. From my experience, component will only connect to component and I don't think you can get adaptors.

Yup I've got a similar setup out of the sky scart. Have a look at the link I posted for the Joytech switch I use. I works the same as the 2nd photo you posted but works via remote and allows 4 inputs. It's also very reasonably priced, just under NZ$100 here.

I'm getting a loan converter to go from scart RGB to component today so I'll try it out tonight and see how it goes.

In a moment of Geekness I was thinking of using Visio to draw all the components and how they are hooked up. Then I thought better of it.

[matthewt]

The scart connector has composite, s-video signal and RGB pins. Whether or not they are used is up to the device capabilities.

Most euro tellys do RGB, everyone else gets YCbCr.

Good luck Matt, maybe a future Sky box will support YCbCr

The new Sky pvr models (called My Sky :tugger: ) are meant to. Some of the recent digital boxes were meant to get the firmware upgraded to handle YCbCr but I think that has been put on hold.

A friend back from the UK has a widescreen TV with 4 scart connectors and nothing else.

[bungbung]

In a moment of Geekness I was thinking of using Visio to draw all the components and how they are hooked up. Then I thought better of it.

Crikey, go and clean your bike or something :)

[Devil]

Ahh, wish i'd started reading this earlier! I've been trying to figure out how I can get the SKY SCART into the component inputs for my projector. The RCA one looks utter arse on a native 1280 projector. I see all these convertors and things by they only deal with the picture, there's no room for the sound!

Would love to get around this.
DVD's with a progressive scan player on the projector look absolutely mint.

[matthewt]

Ahh, wish i'd started reading this earlier! I've been trying to figure out how I can get the SKY SCART into the component inputs for my projector. The RCA one looks utter arse on a native 1280 projector. I see all these convertors and things by they only deal with the picture, there's no room for the sound!

Would love to get around this.
DVD's with a progressive scan player on the projector look absolutely mint.

The converter I'm trying will sort your picture so why not just use the L/R audio RCA for sound ?? Or wait for the new My Sky pvr boxes which are meant to output component via the scart (so you'd just need the right cable), these boxes also have optical & coax out for 5.1 audio.

[Hoon]

“MY SKY” will be available to both new and existing SKY subscribers from 5th December 2005 for a one-off connection fee of $599.00. There will be no extra monthly subscription fee.

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
GENERAL
Operating Voltage: 230V AC+15%; 50Hz
Power Consumption: 35 W (max)
Weight: 4.5kg (packed)
Dimensions (W x H x D): 390mm x 62mm x 265mm
UHF modulator: CCIR PAL System G; CH 21 to 69
(factory setting is 24)
Operating temperature range: 0˚C to +50˚C
Storage temperature range; -25˚C to +55˚C
REAR PANEL CONNECTORS
240V ~ 50 Hz: (Power input) IEC 320 2-pin reversible
Telephone line: RJ11 female
VCR SCART SCART (composite video out/loop thru; S-Video out/loop thru; RGB loop thru: Component loop thru)
TV SCART SCART (composite video out; RGB out; S-Video out; Component out)
Audio R and L Right and left phono (RCA) audio out
S-Video Out 4-way mini-DIN
Video Out Phono (RCA) composite video out
Digital Audio Out Electrical S/PDIF phono (RCA) out
Optical Audio Out Optical S/PDIF digital-audio out
RS232 Serial connector 9-way Female D type
USB Single USB (1.1) Type A
Aerial In IEC 169-2 female
RF Out – 1 IEC 169-2 male
RF Out – 2 IEC 169-2 male
Input 1 and 2 (Satellite PDR) 2 x IEC 169-24 F-type female

Yeah I'm still not entirely convinced about the new Sky PVRs. When I first heard about them last year I couldn't wait, but then I heard about TiVo boxes (http://www.nztivo.net/index.php/Quick_Start) and the "hands on fully customizable" approach appeals to me. I'm still weighing up the pros and cons of each.

PVR Pros over Tivo

- Component out
- Support
- Simplicity
- Record one channel while watching the other
- Buffering

TiVo pros over PVR

- Cheap
- Ownership
- Fully upgradable (i.e. runs linux, uses any HD you want)
- Network connectivity (for copying off to a PC/DVD)
- Large community of hackers

Also does anyone know how many Sky programs use 5.1 sound? Is it everything or just some movies?? Dolby 5.1 is a definate bonus but if its only for selected movies then it's not that great.

[matthewt]

Also does anyone know how many Sky programs use 5.1 sound? Is it everything or just some movies?? Dolby 5.1 is a definate bonus but if its only for selected movies then it's not that great.

Tivo will only appeal to hackers/geeks since it's not supported here. Getting one setup and running is well beyond most people not in IT. A friend of mine has done it, he was a stay-at-home dad while his kids are pre-school and wanted a geek project to keep his mind ticking over. He gets more email from his tivo unit than anyone else. They are highly configurable and if I hadn't got my dvd recorder I probably would of considered one.

The Sky PVR has two tuners so you could also record 2 different channels while watching something else you recorded. I'll probably look at one once they drop the install fee. With the DVD/HD recorder I've got most of the advantages already.

Sky don't have anything in 5.1 yet, it's something they are "planning" to start mid 2006. I imagine they'll do what they did with widescreen movies, start out slow on the movie channel and then open it up a lot.