A Taste Of A Race

[rastuscat]

On the Tranzalpine Scooter Safari yesterday I got a taste of racing. Sounds naff, but it felt great.

It was a stage event, and one stage was from Arthur's Pass to the Kumara Racecourse.

When we left it was up to the top of the Otira Viaduct and then it was downhill and undulating all the way to Kumara.

I was on my 50cc Adly Silver Fox. The catalytic converter was gone, and it did 65 kmh flat out. Turns out the gearing in the CVT was quite tall.

I caught up with two other bikes with very similar performance. One was a 50 cc Honda step through, old school, 70s kind of thing. Other was a home build with two wheels at the rear, motorcycle controls, pivot in the middle. The engine was above the rear axle.

Each of us had an advantage. My Adly sucked uphill, the Honda similarly. The trike had maybe 1% advantage on us there. On the flat and undulating the Honda had us by maybe that same 1%, and on the downhills I had taller gears meaning I could roll over them by that same 1%.

Drafting became the way we rolled. We could each slip stream each other, but in the main none of us could get away aside from the above stated advantages. I would be sitting 30 cm behind the Honda quite comfortably but when I pulled out to pass the increased wind resistance just made it impossible.

We each learned to keep our profiles low, reducing wind resistance. Each of us had the bikes tapped out, and just let them decide who was going faster under which conditions. But nobody could get away.

I think we varied between about 50 and 65 kmh, depending on gradient, but none of us was able to get away.

It was awesome. At the end of the stage it felt like we had formed some sort of bond. It wasn't a race, but sure felt like it.

I wondered if the Motorcycle GP guys felt that same way, only at 5 times the speed.

I can get why people race buckets. It's not the speed that counts, it's the competition.

[rastuscat]

It was kind of interesting how seeking speed causes you to ride differently.

I tend to brake very little on the open road anyway, but on the moped it became a real focus.

Preserving momentum became king. Gaining momentum and preserving momentum.

When you have to work so hard to obtain speed braking just seems such a waste. When drafting the odd nervous blip of the rear brake (left lever on the Mighty Adly) was more psychological than necessary.

When you are drafting you feel like you can go faster, so the guy ahead is in the way. But pull out and the wind resistance the guy ahead is breaking hits you, and reality bites.

Each time you brake you lose speed and then consume energy regaining it.

A message for life, really.

[Gremlin]

When you are drafting you feel like you can go faster, so the guy ahead is in the way. But pull out and the wind resistance the guy ahead is breaking hits you, and reality bites.
Reminds me touring with a mate who liked riding his GN250. Somewhere on the straights (could have been south or north) he slowly catches up to a truck and trailer rig. Checks, no traffic, pulls out to overtake...

Immediately the gap between him and truck opens up and he can't even maintain it. He pulls back in. Later on, he's angry that the truck sped up, and I had to tell him no, you were drafting and that's why you couldn't overtake.

Had a really hard time staying on my bike watching the truck leave him behind because I was laughing so hard :laugh:

[rastuscat]

Reminds me touring with a mate who liked riding his GN250. Somewhere on the straights (could have been south or north) he slowly catches up to a truck and trailer rig. Checks, no traffic, pulls out to overtake...

Immediately the gap between him and truck opens up and he can't even maintain it. He pulls back in. Later on, he's angry that the truck sped up, and I had to tell him no, you were drafting and that's why you couldn't overtake.

Had a really hard time staying on my bike watching the truck leave him behind because I was laughing so hard :laugh:

20 years of cycling in road groups makes you comfortable hugging the rear wheel ahead.

Turned out the other two were similarly comfortable.

Good times.

[Tazz]

Awesome sauce. Good to hear you had fun man. Seen a few bookface posts from some friends and it looks like it was another successful year. Well more scuessful route wise.

FYI though you have just lost your right to post any more threads about safe following distances :bleh: :laugh: Worth it though.

[Autech]

Haha, time to get a bucket then mate! Battle of the Buckets is at the end of the month, get out there and enjoy.

Doesn't matter what you are racing, all those Motogp guys would be equally happy on Postie bikes just as long as they're in the thick of it.

[rastuscat]

Awesome sauce. Good to hear you had fun man. Seen a few bookface posts from some friends and it looks like it was another successful year. Well more scuessful route wise.

FYI though you have just lost your right to post any more threads about safe following distances :bleh: :laugh: Worth it though.

That following distance thing crossed my mind quite a few times.

Then I thought "whuq it" and kept on drafting.

It took a few km to build up the confidence in the other riders to let me get that close for that long. Especially given the brake lights on the others were marginal.

Great fun.

[rastuscat]

Haha, time to get a bucket then mate! Battle of the Buckets is at the end of the month, get out there and enjoy.

Doesn't matter what you are racing, all those Motogp guys would be equally happy on Postie bikes just as long as they're in the thick of it.

Too much on to take on another hobby just now.

Have to say it peaked my interest though.

Before the event hit the road 250 scooters did 4 laps of Ruapuna. Well, 249. I only did 2. Riding with so many who hadn't been on a track before was scary.

[jellywrestler]

20 years of cycling in road groups makes you comfortable hugging the rear wheel ahead.



what about the two second rule?

[EJK]

what about the two second rule?

Mate, they are scooters. That probably WAS two seconds.

[neels]

what about the two second rule?
In road cycling it's more the 2 metre rule, once you drop 2 metres behind the person in front you're going to be riding by yourself.

[Autech]

In road cycling it's more the 2 metre rule, once you drop 2 metres behind the person in front you're going to be riding by yourself.

Still look like a dickhead regardless :bleh:

We really shouldn't start this though. To provide balance I will post some positives: Cyclists are awesome cause they save baby seals.

[george formby]

I like it. Little things, big fun. Been thinking about buckets as, perhaps, my only chance to actually "race". Now that we have groms I'm thinking about clandestine car park GP's. The smallest bike I own, 10hp, is the most fun and frustrating. It punishes bad technique mercilessly.

Good post, damned fine sense of reality.

[Motu]

I rode a C50 for 7 years, everyday was race day, pushing hard up and over Seaview Rd, part of the old TT course. In the '70's I had an M20...13hp to push a 425 lb bike - I learned to never back off, never lose momenteun, just keep it nailed all the time. Now I've got my Stornello 160 back on the road again...same thing, red line everywhere and just keep that throttle wide open. It's so much fun on a small bike.

[george formby]

:banana:
Ahh, brings back memories of my first bike, a restricted, 12hp KMX 125. I used to fold the mirrors back and hang on to the left fork leg trying to hit 60mph, downhill with a tail wind. Never back off for a corner!
Then I de-restricted it and tasted hedge. Great times.

[Racing Dave]

I caught up with two other bikes with very similar performance. One was a 50 cc Honda step through, old school, 70s kind of thing. Other was a home build with two wheels at the rear, motorcycle controls, pivot in the middle. The engine was above the rear axle.



As seen in front of RC...

[Dave-]

I was on a Yamaha Jog in my orange/black race leathers.

Drafting or reducing my profile seemed to make no difference at all.

I found the biggest contributors to speed were keeping the bike straight and riding the line of least resistance. A group of guys 'drafting' came up on me nearing cave stream, down the hill I zoomed away from them with a superior MotoGP line, they caught up to me and overtook me along the cragieburn straight, but again I got them all back again on the downhill. I wasn't tucked or anything, I was literally sitting on my scooter line an arm chair, one handed, cruising like.

If drafting really made any difference they would have had the run on me down the hill, but I think their bikes were all just faster and they were pussies who used the brake too much.

I actually found tucking down made my scooter more sensitive to input which meant that I'd spend more effort keeping the thing driving straight and lose speed to the tiny corrections I had to make to keep it straight.

On my race bike I notice a huge difference tucking under the fairing and drafting, but I really think the aerodynamics at sub 100kph contribute a negligible amount to your drag.

Whatever though eh, it was still an awesome day :)

[rastuscat]

I think we met, Dave.

Braking on a moped is such a waste of momentum. I have to work hard to gain momentum, I don't waste it by braking.

You sure learn a truck load about preserving momentum by riding smoothly. And that learning transfers to my touring bike, which is far nicer to ride since I got the moped.

[rastuscat]

As seen in front of RC...

Yes, that's the guy.

It was scary tucking in behind him, the back wheels are kind of sticky outy.

[Hobbyhorse]

Yes, I found the same thing, maintaining momentum became a big thing. Sit up straight and loose 5kph so hunched up it was. Also found that each scooter had a different sweet spot and I swapped places on a regular basis with other scoots as the grades changed and then flattened out. I have to say that the throttle slide did not get much wear as it was wide open most of the way.:niceone:

[rastuscat]

I have to say that the throttle slide did not get much wear as it was wide open most of the way.:niceone:

I had my Adly Silver Fox tapped out the whole time, and the actual speed was determined by the gradient, drafting, position, headwind etc.

Up Porters Pass was 20 kmh, down the speedo wound a longcway past the 80 kmh max indicated.

Happy days.

[Hobbyhorse]

Up Porters Pass was 20 kmh, down the speedo wound a longcway past the 80 kmh max indicated.

Happy days.

I was riding a 1988 Vespa 50S and I chickened out at 65kph on the downhill run.

[rastuscat]

I was riding a 1988 Vespa 50S and I chickened out at 65kph on the downhill run.

Turned out removing the cat convertor on my moped was the key. It allowed enough acceleration, and combined with quite tall CVT gearing it led to rapid down hills.

The loose grit on the the way down the Otira Viaduct was a challenge though.

[Racing Dave]

Up Porters Pass was 20 kmh, down the speedo wound a longcway past the 80 kmh max indicated.

Some poor sods were reduced to 5 km/h or less.

[Hobbyhorse]

Good photos. Do you think it was the lack of engine power or the CVT transmission that let those guys down?

I was in 2nd gear on the Vespa on the steepest part of climb at 25kph until I was checked by a couple of the struggling ones and had to drop into first gear.

[Racing Dave]

Good photos. Do you think it was the lack of engine power or the CVT transmission that let those guys down?

I was in 2nd gear on the Vespa on the steepest part of climb at 25kph until I was checked by a couple of the struggling ones and had to drop into first gear.

I reckon that it's a combination of both.

In 2012 I rode a Suzuki SJ50 and like most CVT scooters of that type, I held it pinned the whole way. The problem with the CVT is that it doesn't allow the engine to rev, and thus develop peak power, at low road speed, as this is a function of the pulley diameters. The standard centrifugal clutches also engage at low rpm, which hinders initial acceleration from a standstill.

The other issue is, of course, their utter lack of power (is it 2kW?) which makes hill-climbing a struggle anyway, but which also brings its own joys, as RC details above, when it comes to slipstreaming. I was definitely no faster than 20km/h at the top of Porters, but over-revving on the way down (thanks, gravity) saw 65km/h indicated, which it would never do on the flat.

In 2010 I rode a C50 step-thru, which was seriously worn out, but at least it had the advantage of the 3-speed gearbox, allowing me to unmercifully rev the poor thing up the three 1st gear climbs (top of Porters, the right hand bend just before Castle Hill, and the climb out of Arthurs Pass Village) but I think it was still down to around 20km/h.

In 2014 I rode a Honda Super Cub (one of the modern 110cc four-stroke injected ones) which comparatively has abundant torque, and that pulled up Porters in 3rd gear (at full throttle) never dropping below 50km/h. Torque, (more or less proportional to engine capacity) makes a huge difference.